Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:10 AM - Out of Office AutoReply: AeroElectric-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 07/05/03 ()
2. 03:57 AM - Re: LSE EI Installation (Billie Lamb)
3. 09:09 AM - Re: LSE EI Installation (Joel Harding)
4. 09:16 AM - Re: LSE EI Installation (Joel Harding)
5. 01:57 PM - Re: KX-125 problem (Bruce Green)
6. 02:24 PM - dead battery (Steve J Hurlbut)
7. 03:08 PM - KX-125 and KN-75 wiring, manual discrepancy (Werner Schneider)
8. 03:59 PM - Re: dead battery (kc)
9. 04:06 PM - Re: Dual bus VM-1000 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 04:17 PM - Re: KX-125 and KN-75 wiring, manual (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 04:25 PM - Re: dead battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 04:36 PM - Re: KX-125 problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 07:41 PM - Re: dead battery (Steve J Hurlbut)
14. 10:05 PM - Option for alternator B-lead fuse (Jeff Point)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Out of Office AutoReply: AeroElectric-List Digest: |
4 Msgs - 07/05/03
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <max.johansson@nokia.com>
On vacation - back in office on Tuesday 15.07.2003
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: LSE EI Installation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Billie Lamb" <N254BL@cfl.rr.com>
Apparently yours is different than mine. On my IO-320-B1A there are holes to
be drilled in the starter ring mount (flywheel) and the magnets pressed into
them and staked. I sent the mount to Klaus to be drilled. I figured he was
set up to do it properly.
Bill Lamb
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: LSE EI Installation
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha"
<tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
> I received my electronic ignition from Light Speed Engineering a couple of
days ago. I'm preparing to install it on my Lycoming O-235 but can't figure
out how to drill tap the holes for the sensor bracket without splitting the
case.The way I see itnowthe holes in the prop flange don't line up with the
sensor bracket mounting holes so it seems the case has to be split and the
crank removed? But then I wont have the crank to center the bracket on. How
do I get the drill behind the prop flange?
> Advice from someone who has installed one would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Grant Krueger
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: LSE EI Installation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joel Harding <cajole76@ispwest.com>
Grant,
The holes in my case were oriented properly to accept the sensor
bracket, but I've got a different model engine. Just make sure that
you are mounting the sensor bracket correctly, and then if there is a
small misalignment you can elongate the holes in the bracket or if that
doesn't work, drill new holes in the bracket. I wouldn't consider
splitting the case until all other possibilities are exhausted. You
might also give Klaus a call, he is very helpful with installation
problems.
Joel Harding
On Saturday, Jul 5, 2003, at 21:06 America/Denver, Tinne maha wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha"
> <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
> I received my electronic ignition from Light Speed Engineering a
> couple of days ago. I'm preparing to install it on my Lycoming O-235
> but can't figure out how to drill tap the holes for the sensor
> bracket without splitting the case.The way I see itnowthe holes in the
> prop flange don't line up with the sensor bracket mounting holes so it
> seems the case has to be split and the crank removed? But then I wont
> have the crank to center the bracket on. How do I get the drill behind
> the prop flange?
> Advice from someone who has installed one would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Grant Krueger
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: LSE EI Installation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joel Harding <cajole76@ispwest.com>
Grant,
Sorry, I misinterpreted your your question. I guess an 90 degree angle
drill would be about he only way to drill the holes without splitting
the case, but tapping would still be a problem. I'm sure Klaus can
give more useful information.
Joel Harding
On Saturday, Jul 5, 2003, at 21:06 America/Denver, Tinne maha wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha"
> <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
> I received my electronic ignition from Light Speed Engineering a
> couple of days ago. I'm preparing to install it on my Lycoming O-235
> but can't figure out how to drill tap the holes for the sensor
> bracket without splitting the case.The way I see itnowthe holes in the
> prop flange don't line up with the sensor bracket mounting holes so it
> seems the case has to be split and the crank removed? But then I wont
> have the crank to center the bracket on. How do I get the drill behind
> the prop flange?
> Advice from someone who has installed one would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Grant Krueger
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: KX-125 problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green <mailindex@juno.com>
Bob,
I put my volt meter on the bus and flew around for half an hour and the
voltage varied between 14.24 to 14.27 and never strayed outside of that.
I couldn't really change the load because I don't have anything to turn
on and off, the only electric things in the plane are the radio which
isn't in the plane and a transponder and an intercom. I turned the
intercom on and off and that didn't change anything.
The radio shop has the radio and I am hoping to hear from them tomorrow
as to what is wrong with it. Could a loose wire, say the power wire on
the back of the alternator cause a voltage spike? Shouldn't a radio be
able to handle something like that? If it were a case of the regulator
allowing the alternator to charge to its hearts content, I have a feeling
that I would smell the battery outgassing, it is only about a foot away
from me.
Thanks again for your help.
Bruce Green
Eagle N110GM
On Tue, 01 Jul 2003 17:59:12 -0500 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net> writes:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>
> >
> >
> >Bob, I do have over voltage protection, but I have never verified
> that it
> >is working properly.
>
> It's a good thing to do. I describe both bench and in-place
> test procedures in
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/crowbar.pdf
>
>
> > I do not have a voltmeter, all that I have is an
> >ammeter like in a car, with a 60-0-60 scale. It is what came with
> the
> >plane and at some point, I plan to replace it with a voltmeter. In
> my
> >last plane, I bought a davtron unit from B&C that mounted right at
> the
> >end of the buss bar and I was very happy with that.
>
> The voltmeter is a good thing to have . . . better I think
> than the battery ammeter . . . but either instrument is just
> a troubleshooting assist.
>
> > The only electric
> >devices in the airplane are the KX-125, a KT-76 transponder and a
> PS
> >Engineering intercom and so far the transponder and intercom have
> not
> >been affected. I plan to go flying with my handheld and connect my
> >multimeter to the bussbar and see what the output is and if there
> are any
> >aberations. When I put the battery in, I adjusted the voltmeter to
> I
> >believe, 13.8 as the battery manufacture recomended. Should I be
> looking
> >for high voltage excursions or just a generally high voltage??
>
> Most automotive and aircraft regulators are set at 14.2 volts
> for better recharge rates . . and while slightly elevated
> with respect to optimum room temperature floating recharge, it's
> not particularly injurious to the battery.
>
> >Thanks for your help,
>
>
> Put your voltmeter on the bus and fire up the airplane leaving
> the radios off. See how stable the voltage is with
> variable loading. Run up to 1800+ rpm and switch everything
> but radios on. Bus voltage shouldn't wiggle by more than
> 0.5 volt or so.
>
> Your story seems to favor an ov event. I'd sure check out
> the ov protection to be sure.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list
>
>
>
>
>
>
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 6
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve J Hurlbut" <sjhdcl@kingston.net>
I recently went to turn on the Master switch on my RV7A (almost done)
and discovered the battery was dead (I have 2 batteries). I measured the
voltage (with terminals
attached) and it read 0.06 V. I tried to charge the battery but it was long
gone.
However after removing the terminals (and noticing a small spark) and
removed the battery
from the airplane, the voltage read 4.5 V and I fully charged it to 13 V
over night.
I reinstalled the battery, connected the terminals and have not had a
problem since. I did discover
a small screw in the tray of my EXP Bus and removed it. Could have caused a
short between the casing
and circuit board? All the CB were pulled at the time except for the main
battery (can't be pulled, just
reset).
Any body have an idea of why my battery read different voltages with the
terminals connected and
disconnected and what may have caused this voltage drain? Everything in my
airplane is powered from the
power leads on the Exp Bus and the loads are well below the maximum allowed
currents.
Steve Hurlbut
RV7A
Eggenfellner Subaru powered
Message 7
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| Subject: | KX-125 and KN-75 wiring, manual discrepancy |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Dear all,
I've wired today my Nav/Com (KX-125) and the Glideslope Receiver (KN75) all
went fine, until I've detected, that in the drawing and the associated
wireliste some discrepancies concerning pin layout are.I've the Installation
Manual for the KX-125 (#006-00655-0001) dated Rev 1 January 1994.
On the diagram page 2-5 it says:
GS 108 MHZ Pin E
GS 109 MHZ Pin B
GS 110 MHZ Pin C
GS 111 MHZ Pin D
On the connector pinout diagram page 2-11 it says
A ->
GLIDESPLOPE 109 kHz
B ->
GLIDESPLOPE 110 kHz
C ->
GLIDESPLOPE 108 kHz
D ->
GLIDESPLOPE 111 kHz
I recon the diagram is right and the connector pinout wrong (as the kHz
are?)
Any help appreciated.
Kind regards
Werner (nearly ready for first power up!)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: dead battery |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "kc" <samdacat@elp.rr.com>
I think that the change in voltage connected vs disconnected confirms a
short that was actively draining the battery. Could have been the screw you
noticed in the EXP bus tray or something else that moved when you removed
the battery. Since the master was off when this happened, the problem was
in one of the areas between the battery and the master. I would make a very
through review of this area of your system.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve J Hurlbut" <sjhdcl@kingston.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: dead battery
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve J Hurlbut"
<sjhdcl@kingston.net>
>
> I recently went to turn on the Master switch on my RV7A (almost done)
> and discovered the battery was dead (I have 2 batteries). I measured the
> voltage (with terminals
> attached) and it read 0.06 V. I tried to charge the battery but it was
long
> gone.
>
> However after removing the terminals (and noticing a small spark) and
> removed the battery
> from the airplane, the voltage read 4.5 V and I fully charged it to 13 V
> over night.
>
> I reinstalled the battery, connected the terminals and have not had a
> problem since. I did discover
> a small screw in the tray of my EXP Bus and removed it. Could have caused
a
> short between the casing
> and circuit board? All the CB were pulled at the time except for the main
> battery (can't be pulled, just
> reset).
>
> Any body have an idea of why my battery read different voltages with the
> terminals connected and
> disconnected and what may have caused this voltage drain? Everything in my
> airplane is powered from the
> power leads on the Exp Bus and the loads are well below the maximum
allowed
> currents.
>
> Steve Hurlbut
> RV7A
> Eggenfellner Subaru powered
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Dual bus VM-1000 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:21 AM 7/4/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Treff, Arthur"
><Arthur.Treff@Smartm.com>
>
>Bob,
>Thanks for your research on my behalf. It was definately above and beyond
>the call of duty. You should be inducted into the EAA hall of fame. Not
>only did you go the extra mile and contact Vision Mirco, but you generated
>a schematic.
My pleasure. Usually, the most reliable and informative
source of data on a product is available from the manufacturer
so I'll nearly always exercise that option unless it's a stone-
simple question with an obvious answer. It's easy for me
to draw neatly . . . shucks, anyone with AutoCAD can do it.
Use any CAD program long enough and you tend to forget how
to neatly drive a pencil.
> None of the drawings for my plane look as good as yours.
Neat is always good but good data recorded in a lucid manner
is better. I work with a battalion of 3D CAD drivers
most whom can produce very pretty drawings. Whether they
are correct and/or optimized designs is another matter.
I've visited builders who apologized for "messy" drawings.
The messy part came from obvious use of the ultimate
correction tool . . . the Pink Pearl eraser. What was
lying on top of slightly smudged pages were easily
read details of a system accurately described on paper.
Don't sell your efforts short. If your drawings describe
a clear and concise system story to you and/or future owners
of the airplane, they're to be highly prized over some
of the "good looking" stuff that spits out of laser printers!
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: KX-125 and KN-75 wiring, manual |
discrepancy
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:08 AM 7/7/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider"
><wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
>
>Dear all,
>
>I've wired today my Nav/Com (KX-125) and the Glideslope Receiver (KN75) all
>went fine, until I've detected, that in the drawing and the associated
>wireliste some discrepancies concerning pin layout are.I've the Installation
>Manual for the KX-125 (#006-00655-0001) dated Rev 1 January 1994.
>
>On the diagram page 2-5 it says:
>
> GS 108 MHZ Pin E
> GS 109 MHZ Pin B
> GS 110 MHZ Pin C
> GS 111 MHZ Pin D
The pinout diagram published at
http://216.55.140.222/Installation_Data/KX125.pdf
agrees with the above.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: dead battery |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:19 PM 7/6/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve J Hurlbut"
><sjhdcl@kingston.net>
>
>I recently went to turn on the Master switch on my RV7A (almost done)
>and discovered the battery was dead (I have 2 batteries). I measured the
>voltage (with terminals
>attached) and it read 0.06 V. I tried to charge the battery but it was long
>gone.
>
>However after removing the terminals (and noticing a small spark) and
>removed the battery
>from the airplane, the voltage read 4.5 V and I fully charged it to 13 V
>over night.
Whatever ran the battery down was probably still attached
and loading the battery during your first measurement. Unless
the battery is in a constant discharge state for a very long
time (weeks) and depending on the rate of discharge, the termial
voltage will rise somewhat.
As long as your battery hasn't suffered a total discharge
condition for more than a day or two, it will probably
be servicable.
>I reinstalled the battery, connected the terminals and have not had a
>problem since.
. . . the "problem" may be one of reduced capacity. What kind
of battery are we talking about here and what is its function
in your system?
>I did discover
>a small screw in the tray of my EXP Bus and removed it. Could have caused a
>short between the casing
>and circuit board? All the CB were pulled at the time except for the main
>battery (can't be pulled, just
>reset).
>
>Any body have an idea of why my battery read different voltages with the
>terminals connected and
>disconnected and what may have caused this voltage drain? Everything in my
>airplane is powered from the
>power leads on the Exp Bus and the loads are well below the maximum allowed
>currents.
Have you put an ammeter in series with the batteries in your
airplane to investigate the parked-and-locked drain current on
batteries? Aside from acknowledge loads like keepalive for radio
memories, clocks, and similar always-on loads, drain on batteries
for a parked airplane should be ZERO. The fact that you had an
unexplained total discharge of a battery suggests a need
for further assurances that something unforetold is not going
on.
If your EXP Bus has polyfuses -AND- the screw caused
a fault downstream of the fuse, it could have been driven
into a high temperature, low fault current state that
would take some time to run the battery down. The question
arises, "how does anything on the EXP Bus get powered up
with the master switch off?
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: KX-125 problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:10 PM 7/6/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green <mailindex@juno.com>
>
>Bob,
>I put my volt meter on the bus and flew around for half an hour and the
>voltage varied between 14.24 to 14.27 and never strayed outside of that.
>I couldn't really change the load because I don't have anything to turn
>on and off, the only electric things in the plane are the radio which
>isn't in the plane and a transponder and an intercom. I turned the
>intercom on and off and that didn't change anything.
That small a load change wouldn't help diagnose much in the way
of alternator problems. You don't have any lighting equipment
you can turn on? If your airplane is so lightly outfitted,
I'd recommend you borrow a battery shop load tester, hook
it to the battery with the engine running up 2,000 rpm or so
and crank the load up to 25-40 amps as see that the
panel voltmeter confirms an ability and willingness of
the alternator to properly accept such loads.
>The radio shop has the radio and I am hoping to hear from them tomorrow
>as to what is wrong with it. Could a loose wire, say the power wire on
>the back of the alternator cause a voltage spike? Shouldn't a radio be
>able to handle something like that? If it were a case of the regulator
>allowing the alternator to charge to its hearts content, I have a feeling
>that I would smell the battery outgassing, it is only about a foot away
>from me.
>
>Thanks again for your help.
If you have a bus voltage high enough to outgas an RG battery,
the OV protection system should have tripped the alternator
of line a long time ago. If the ov protection system is
functional, it should protect the airplane from miscreant
regulators and alternators.
See what the radio shop says. Be skeptical of any diagnosis
based upon your airplane having "spiked" the radio. This is a common
methodology for pushing root cause off onto the airplane . . .
especially when the technician doesn't really understand how
the radio failed. I'm not saying it never happens but after
4 decades of chasing gremlins in airplanes, I can tell you
that technicians attribute spikes with far greater penchant for
evil than the reality of good science can confirm.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: dead battery |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve J Hurlbut" <sjhdcl@kingston.net>
The batteries are Odyssey PC625s.
I did connect an ammeter in series and the current was zero. However after
seeing the initial spark
when disconnecting the +ve terminal, I reconnected it and there was no
spark. Whatever was draining the
battery is no longer causing any problems.
I have kept track of the voltage for the past 3 days. After recharging, the
battery read 12.71 V and now after
3 days it reads 12.61 V. I seems to be constant now. All the breakers are
now pushed in and there is no current drain.
I have an Eggenfellner Subaru engine that uses a dual battery system that
can be connected through a master
relay. The only keep-alive connection I have is to power the engine computer
but that runs off the secondary battery
and the current drain is VERY small.
It is possible to power the engine computer, electrically controlled prop
(Quinti), and the back up Gyro for emergency
purposes with the MASTER off. This is through a Bus OVERRIDE switch that
surpasses the EXP Bus in the
unlikely event that it malfunctions. Nothing that is solely powered by the
ExpBus can be used with the Master off. I have carefully
checked the battery connection to the Exp Bus for shorts. The terminal has
multiple layers of heat shrink and clears the
ExpBus casing by at least 1/4".
The only other thing I can think of is the engine computer itself. Since the
batteries have been disconnected, the memory
has been erased so there is no current draw for the computer. If the battery
stabilizes at around 12.6 V I will be
content for now until I run the engine again and create the computer memory
draw.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: dead battery
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 05:19 PM 7/6/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve J Hurlbut"
> ><sjhdcl@kingston.net>
> >
> >I recently went to turn on the Master switch on my RV7A (almost done)
> >and discovered the battery was dead (I have 2 batteries). I measured the
> >voltage (with terminals
> >attached) and it read 0.06 V. I tried to charge the battery but it was
long
> >gone.
> >
> >However after removing the terminals (and noticing a small spark) and
> >removed the battery
> >from the airplane, the voltage read 4.5 V and I fully charged it to 13 V
> >over night.
>
> Whatever ran the battery down was probably still attached
> and loading the battery during your first measurement. Unless
> the battery is in a constant discharge state for a very long
> time (weeks) and depending on the rate of discharge, the termial
> voltage will rise somewhat.
>
> As long as your battery hasn't suffered a total discharge
> condition for more than a day or two, it will probably
> be servicable.
>
>
> >I reinstalled the battery, connected the terminals and have not had a
> >problem since.
>
> . . . the "problem" may be one of reduced capacity. What kind
> of battery are we talking about here and what is its function
> in your system?
>
> >I did discover
> >a small screw in the tray of my EXP Bus and removed it. Could have caused
a
> >short between the casing
> >and circuit board? All the CB were pulled at the time except for the main
> >battery (can't be pulled, just
> >reset).
> >
> >Any body have an idea of why my battery read different voltages with the
> >terminals connected and
> >disconnected and what may have caused this voltage drain? Everything in
my
> >airplane is powered from the
> >power leads on the Exp Bus and the loads are well below the maximum
allowed
> >currents.
>
> Have you put an ammeter in series with the batteries in your
> airplane to investigate the parked-and-locked drain current on
> batteries? Aside from acknowledge loads like keepalive for radio
> memories, clocks, and similar always-on loads, drain on batteries
> for a parked airplane should be ZERO. The fact that you had an
> unexplained total discharge of a battery suggests a need
> for further assurances that something unforetold is not going
> on.
>
> If your EXP Bus has polyfuses -AND- the screw caused
> a fault downstream of the fuse, it could have been driven
> into a high temperature, low fault current state that
> would take some time to run the battery down. The question
> arises, "how does anything on the EXP Bus get powered up
> with the master switch off?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Option for alternator B-lead fuse |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Bob,
I would like to get your opinion on the use of a fuse holder similar to
the following for alternator b-lead protection forward of the firewall:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-08KCpdYV9zh/ProdView.asp?s=0&cc=01&g=716&id=morephotos&pi=1&i=575CPPFH4&display=L#morephotos
These are commonly used in car stereo installations and are designed to
go under the hood, near the battery. My plan is to have it mounted to
the engine mount using adel clamps near the starter contactor. 40 Amp
fuses are available (for my 40 amp B&C alternator.) The one drawback I
can see is that the attachment of the wires is done with a set screw
rather than a clamped connection. My alternative is to use a Bussmann
JJS/JJN type fuse as shown in your book.
Your opinion?
Jeff Point
RV-6 firewall forward
Milwaukee WI
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