Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:11 AM - Re: fadec / Z14 (John Schroeder)
2. 09:10 AM - headset jack locations (BAKEROCB@aol.com)
3. 09:38 AM - Re: "Epiphany" redux . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 09:44 AM - Re: headset jack locations (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 11:29 AM - Noisy Radio transmission (Ed Anderson)
6. 12:42 PM - EI Install - Firewall Penetration (Tinne maha)
7. 01:14 PM - Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration (Jeff Point)
8. 01:44 PM - Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 02:40 PM - Re: Mooney Alternator Problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 02:55 PM - Re: Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration (Garrison Sem)
11. 02:59 PM - Re: Multimeter test adaptor, diodes, etc. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 05:25 PM - Re: Z-14 option (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 05:41 PM - Re: Electric Primer? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 06:04 PM - DC power jacks for portables in airplane/car (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 07:27 PM - Re: Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration (Tinne maha)
16. 07:30 PM - Re: Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration (Tinne maha)
17. 08:19 PM - Aux Battery Management Module (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 08:31 PM - Re: Common questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 08:58 PM - Re: Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration (David Carter)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Hi Bob -
I had a long talk with Jabe Luttrell at Aerosance this past Friday. Jabe is
the VP of Engineering. He sent me 3 other diagrams to look over. They are
for an aircraft with a rear mounted engine. I believe they are close to
what Velocity has in their new factory bird. Scott Baker at Velocity told
me that they are going to a dual alternator/dual battery system. Aerosance
shows an optional second alternator in this set of diagrams.
One note: the keyed switch is for starter actuation and also it completes
an arming circuit for each channel of the FADEC. My thought would be to
include that arming function on the channel power switch (S700-2-50). That
way, the whole engine is not relying on one multi purpose switch. The
starter could then be push button or keyed (New Jersey's 2-lock law).
There is a rationale for having so many cb's/fuzes. I do not fully
understand it so you may want to call Jabe and discuss it. His number is:
860 409-7880 x15. He agrees that with a dual battery/dual alternator you
can leave out the Hall Effect current monitor, but again, I'm not sure how
you would take it out. He can get you the installation manual - if there is
one.
I believe that this FADEC system needs 2 batteries and 2 alternators for
optimal safety and redundancy. Thus, it begs for meshing with an already
existing, well-designed system: Z-14. :-))
I'll convert the drawings from .pdf to .dwg and get them to you today.
Cheers,
John
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:56:00 -0500, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 06:08 AM 7/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lynwood Stagg
>> <woody6@yahoo.com>
>>
>> This is the same predicament I am in currently. I'm building a Z14 RV7A
>> w/FADEC. I'm no electronics expert, and it is difficult to figure out
>> how
>> to put this thing in place in a reasonable way. Z14 FADEC integration
>> help
>> from 'Lectric Bob would help immensely!
>
> It's in the works. Need to have some conversation with Aerosance
> next week to ferret out some operational details . . .
>
> Does anyone have an installation manual or a pilot's
> operating handbook for this system?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
Message 2
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| Subject: | headset jack locations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BAKEROCB@aol.com
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "J. Oberst"
<joberst@cox-internet.com>
<<In my Glasair, I put the jacks in the top of the wing, right next to the
side wall, just aft of the main spar wing attach brackets. That spot is
near your knee. It's real convenient, and you can SEE them and easily reach
them, unlike some of the behind-the-seat arrangements. Jim Oberst >>
7/13/2003
Hello Jim, Thanks for your response. I am glad that you are happy with your
headset jack locations.
I fully agree with the need to SEE the jacks as you are attempting to use
them. That is why I say that the installations in back of the opposite seat must
be in view and reach of the intended user -- just turning the head should be
sufficient to see them.
Among other advantages of the behind the opposite seat locations is no cords
dangling / lying across the lap.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: "Epiphany" redux . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:34 PM 7/12/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Curiosity got the better of me when you mentioned the "epiphany I
>experienced". So, looking it up on the Internet, I
>find the following, and I still didn't get your meaning.
>Oh well.
>Cecil Hatfield
<snip>
Good morning my friend,
With due notice given to third order definitions
from Webster:
Epiphany
3a (1) : a usually sudden manifestation or perception
of the essential nature or meaning of something (2) : an
intuitive grasp of reality through something (as an event)
usually simple and striking (3) : an illuminating
discovery b : a revealing scene or moment
I experienced a "simple and striking" epiphany when
I ripped the gearbox out of the drill motor I selected
for driving my centrifuge project while attempting
to get rated horsepower at 1/3 of rated RPM. Better
yet, my division VP was standing there watching while
I did it.
I've got the centrifuge back in my shop being fitted with
a new, more robust drill motor and a 3:1 reduction chain
drive so that when I ask the drill motor for nearly 1 hp
of output, it really stands a chance of delivering it.
Everyone has opportunities to take their turn in this
situation. My boss at Electro-Mech about 25 years ago insisted
that we use a drive shaft with universal joints to take
14,000 RPM x 10 HP motion from a variable speed drive
through a sealed shaft in the wall of an environmental
chamber to test starter generators we were designing
for Beech.
I wanted to turn the generator with a hydraulic motor
driven with a pump on the Vari-Drive and take a
couple of hydraulic lines through the chamber wall.
He opined that the shaft would be quite sufficient.
He further resisted my suggestion that we use VW drive
shafts fitted with constant velocity joints as the
coupling mechanism. This was years before popularity
of front wheel drive cars and the VW was the only
plentiful source of magic-joints I was aware of.
The very first time this system was fired up, he was at
the controls with a Beech purchasing guy standing behind
him (Beech had bought us the new chamber as part of the
non-recurring development costs for the program). As he
cranked 'er past 10K, there was sudden onset of loud buzzing
followed shortly by a very loud clank. Fortunately, the
scatter shield we'd put in place kept all the pieces from
flying about the lab.
Two weeks later, we spun up our first test article to
14,000 RPM with nary a whimper . . . on the end of two
hydraulic lines. I was in Electro-Mech's mechanical test
lab last week. That system is still in use.
Fortunately, my own educational experience last week was
not a deleterious influence on schedule - boss's
chuckles as he walked away adequately suppressed
concerns for the program.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: headset jack locations |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:06 PM 7/13/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BAKEROCB@aol.com
>
> AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "J. Oberst"
><joberst@cox-internet.com>
>
> <<In my Glasair, I put the jacks in the top of the wing, right next to the
> side wall, just aft of the main spar wing attach brackets. That spot is
> near your knee. It's real convenient, and you can SEE them and easily reach
> them, unlike some of the behind-the-seat arrangements. Jim Oberst >>
>
>7/13/2003
>
>Hello Jim, Thanks for your response. I am glad that you are happy with your
>headset jack locations.
>
>I fully agree with the need to SEE the jacks as you are attempting to use
>them. That is why I say that the installations in back of the opposite
>seat must
>be in view and reach of the intended user -- just turning the head should be
>sufficient to see them.
>
>Among other advantages of the behind the opposite seat locations is no cords
>dangling / lying across the lap.
The only jacks I've personally installed were new ones for an
intercom system we were installing in one of our C-150 trainers
at 1K1. I got the idea that putting them above and behind the seats
so that cords dangled behind and out of the way went over well
with the mechanic signing off on the install. Two weeks later,
one of the instructors suggested that the pilot's jack should
be on the right side and passenger jack should be on the left,
easier for both individuals to see/reach their jacks. Flipping
a few wires over in a connector accomplished the fix. Of course,
one needs to put prominent labels on the jacks so as to
avoid confusion but everyone really seemed to like the arrangement.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Noisy Radio transmission |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Regarding pervious thread on noisy communciation over aircraft radio.
Well, I make a Micmuff type of cover out of some old demin patches for blue
jeans that had sticky on one side. I put it on the mic for my trip to
Mississippi yesterday and had no problem talking with anyone. I was in
South Carolina approx 90 miles away when I heard a guy overy my home field
and just for the heck of it gave him a call and was stunned when he
responded. Called several Unicoms on the trip and all responded. Still can
hear the cockpit noise in the background, but at least now it does not
overide my voice. So apparently there is something to the article on the
Oregon Aero website about how intense noise causes electret mics to
malfunction and add even more noise to the system rather than cancel it.
Total cost approx $0.50! Hopefully, this is the cure
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | EI Install - Firewall Penetration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
I am installing LSE's single Plasma II system on my Kitfox with Lyc O-235. For
putting the 15 pin connector through the firewall, LSE recommends drilling a large
hole to put the connector through. In order to put the wires through a small
hole, one would have to remove/replace the wires from the connector or cut
splice the wires away from the connector.
I'd hate to drill that big of a hole in my firewall but am hesitant to cut re-splice.
Does someone who has installed one have any hindsight advice for me?
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
I just installed this as well. I decided that it would be less work to
drill a 1 inch hole in the firewall than to cut/ splice the wiring. A
good 1 inch hole saw works well for this. I used a stainless firewall
shield with an asbestos washer to seal the opening. On the plus side,
you can run lots of other wires through this big hole (but not the LSE
high voltage wires!)
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
Tinne maha wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
>I am installing LSE's single Plasma II system on my Kitfox with Lyc O-235. For
putting the 15 pin connector through the firewall, LSE recommends drilling a
large hole to put the connector through. In order to put the wires through a small
hole, one would have to remove/replace the wires from the connector or cut
splice the wires away from the connector.
>I'd hate to drill that big of a hole in my firewall but am hesitant to cut re-splice.
Does someone who has installed one have any hindsight advice for me?
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:21 PM 7/13/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
>I just installed this as well. I decided that it would be less work to
>drill a 1 inch hole in the firewall than to cut/ splice the wiring. A
>good 1 inch hole saw works well for this. I used a stainless firewall
>shield with an asbestos washer to seal the opening. On the plus side,
>you can run lots of other wires through this big hole (but not the LSE
>high voltage wires!
Do I presume correctly that there is a manufacturer supplied
harness with connector installed that needs to go through
the firewall? I think I would replace the connector with
one that uses removable pins . . . like a d-sub. Before you
install pins in new connector, route the harness through
a smaller hole.
What kind of high voltage wires need to come through the
firewall?
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Mooney Alternator Problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:16 AM 7/13/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>dennis makielski (makhaven@comcast.net) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 at 03:16:05
>
>Sunday, July 13, 2003
>
>dennis makielski
>
>,
>Email: makhaven@comcast.net
>Comments/Questions: i have a mooney with an alternator problem. After 40
>minutes of flight, the ALT Volt annunicator light illuminates steady
>(overvoltage)
Is your airplane fitted with ov protection?
Has it ever been checked for proper operation?
>reseting the alt field cb which was not tripped does not extinguish the
>alt volt steady light.
Unless you have a crowbar ov protection system that
is designed to open the breaker on ov condition, there
is no reason to expect it to trip. If you had an
ov condition that persisted for more than a second,
there is reason to believe there are problems with the
ov protection. If you had an ov condition at all, there
are reasons to suspect the regulator is bad.
> instead, the alt volt annunicator light begins to flash
> (undervoltage) and the battery begins to discharge.
perhaps the ov protection DID operated and take
the alternator off line.
>resetting again, no results except smoke from behind the cb panel.
I'm mystified as to why you would fiddle with this
in flight.
> on landing the batt voltage on battery 1 and 2 are less than 24
> volts indicating discharge during non alternator operations.
> shutdown engine. restart engine. alternator comes on line,
> charges system at 28 volts for both batteries, but amps for
> battery #1 at 52 amps with battery # 2 at 13 amps. 10 to 13 amps normal
Sounds like the batteries are in markedly different
conditions. Suggest a capacity check for both
batteries but particularly the one that was recharging
at only 13 amps.
>had maintenance. alt field voltage checked at alternator
>at 23 volts from both batteries.
How was this measured? With the engine running?
A field voltage measurement with engine not running
only says that there is continuity between the bus
and the alternator's field terminal. This test
says nothing about regulator performance.
> voltage regualtor NOT replaced
>
>flew again wiht same resulting emergency.
>
>need ideas as to what's the problem
If it were my airplane, both batteries come out
for a capacity check. Replace if less than 50% of
new. Find out where that smoke came from. Remove
and bench test the ov protection device if
separate from regulator. Remove and bench test
regulator.
If your mechanic knows what he is doing, he
can "bench test" both functions in the
airplane using a variable DC power supply.
I am mystified by the fact that you reported
an annunciated OV condition and the regulator
was not very closely examined.
I would also install a temporary measurement
wire running from the alternator field terminal
into the cockpit. This can often be run out the
bottom of the cowl and through the door gasket.
Put a 1000 ohm resistor in series with this
wire at the alternator end.
Next time you fly, measure voltage on this
wire with respect to airframe ground. Normal
readings can be as low as 2 volts with the system
lightly loaded. It seldom goes as high as
12-15 volts with everything turned on. If the
condition you first observed repeats, you need
to note and record field voltage at the onset
of the problem. If high, like more than 15 volts,
then the regulator is either bad or something
is telling the regulator that the bus voltage
is too low irrespective of the truth of the
matter. This can be caused by intermittent
connection in a voltage sense line to the
regulator.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Garrison Sem" <chasm711@msn.com>
I am also installing a plasma III in an RV-8. After much wasting time I
drew a brief schematic, labled the wires and cut. You don't have to cut
the power and ground wires if you are going to reuse the connector.
Tomorrow Im going to see if there is a D sub compatible with the female
connectror on the box and ask Klaus what wires its ok to run in a bundle
with what. I also want to know if it is ok to substiture RG 400 for the RG
58 that comes with the l Plasma III. I know its not permissible to run the
wires from the crank sensor near the coils and the coax to the coils.
Paul Schattauer
RV8 N808PS
canopy and details
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration
>Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:43:21 -0500
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 03:21 PM 7/13/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point
><jpoint@mindspring.com>
> >
> >I just installed this as well. I decided that it would be less work to
> >drill a 1 inch hole in the firewall than to cut/ splice the wiring. A
> >good 1 inch hole saw works well for this. I used a stainless firewall
> >shield with an asbestos washer to seal the opening. On the plus side,
> >you can run lots of other wires through this big hole (but not the LSE
> >high voltage wires!
>
>
> Do I presume correctly that there is a manufacturer supplied
> harness with connector installed that needs to go through
> the firewall? I think I would replace the connector with
> one that uses removable pins . . . like a d-sub. Before you
> install pins in new connector, route the harness through
> a smaller hole.
>
> What kind of high voltage wires need to come through the
> firewall?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Multimeter test adaptor, diodes, etc. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:22 PM 7/10/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Rick Fogerson
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Multimeter test adaptor
>
>
>Hi Bob,
>I need help in understanding how to make up the test adaptor, page Z6.
>
>Do you crimp or solder the "banana plugs" to one end of the 1573 plug and
>plug the other end into the 1576 receptacle, allowing you to clamp a
>multimeter to the "banana plugs".
>
>Is there a picture somewhere of this?
>
>Would radio shack know what to sell me if I ask for "banana plugs"?
Yes, they'll know. They're also shown in the Radio Shack catalog
as shown in the clip at:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/RS_Banana_Plugs.jpg
The 1576/1573 pair of connectors simply provide a convenient
means for plugging a multimeter into a cockpit mounted test jack
to measure field voltage. Figure Z-23 describes the airplane
wiring. You'll need to make an extension cable with banana plugs
(or what ever mates with your multimeter) on one end and a
274-1573 plug on the other.
Alternatively, one could simply mount a pair of 274-725 banana jacks
on the panel (Item 23 down lower on the clip cited above)
and use test leads with banana plugs on both ends
to effect the connection between multimeter and the electrical
system. However one chooses to do this, it affords the troubleshooter
a vital piece of information needed to diagnose alternator system
problems BEFORE pulling the cowl.
>It's probably there but I can't find in your book the purpose of the 5A
>C.B. in the alt. field wire.
If you use a modern, crowbar ov protection system, the system
DEPENDS on a convenient means for interrupting
the field supply in case of an ov event. This is
described in terms of hardware in:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/crowbar.pdf
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf
and described operationally on page 6-7 of the book.
Since it is possible to get nuisance trips of the
OV system, it's the one breaker that I would include
on the panel of my airplane even when I'm using fuse
blocks to protect the rest of the system.
>Also, does it need to be in plain view so you can see immediately if it
>trips or can I put it out of the way but still accessable by touch in-flight?
I like to put them in same row as switches. See
http://216.55.140.222/temp/Switches.pdf
>And if I haven't strained your patience too far, the Radio Shack P/N for
>the 1N4005 diode. One responded with 276-1141 and another with 276-1105
The 276-1141 is a 3A diode like those we pre-install
on the contactors which you can see at:
http://www.bandc.biz/S701-2.html
and
http://www.bandc.biz/S701-1.html
The 1A diodes would work fine here but they're
smaller and not no robust. The 3A devices are
mechanically a better choice. It would work but
is pretty fat for use on the S704 coil terminals.
The 276-1105 is as near as I can tell,
a bogus number. I plugged it into the search engine
on Radio Shack's website and it came up empty.
Refering to my Radio Shack catalog, I find
this listing:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/RS_Diodes.jpg
Here's the full range of 1A, 3A and 25A bridge
rectifier diodes suited for use in the various
applications depicted in the website articles
and pages of the 'Connection.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:38 PM 7/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mailbox bob at
>mail.flyboybob.com" <bob@flyboybob.com>
>
>'Lectric Bob,
>
>I designed an alternative to the Z-14 diagram that uses diodes from the two
>battery busses to power the main and essential busses. My engine is
>supplied with a permanent magnet alternator and I added a second one for
>parts consistency. The over voltage protection disconnects the dynamo from
>the battery using a disconnect relay. A quad op amp, voltage divider and
>zener diode reference drives the disconnect relay. If the voltage regulator
>goes over voltage it is automatically disconnected and an over voltage
>disconnect light is lit on the panel. An additional voltage since circuit
>is used to monitor the essential bus voltage and drive over and under
>voltage indicator lights on the panel. If the essential bus goes under
>voltage I can shed the main bus load by opening the two circuit breaker
>switches connecting the main bus to the two battery busses. There is a
>standby essential bus switch that will connect to the battery side of the
>battery contactors so the two master switches can be closed and eliminate
>the battery contactors and their field load.
>
>There is no interconnect for starting, the starter runs off battery 2 and
>everything else including electronic ignition runs off of battery 1. After
>starting the number 2 master is switched on and both systems are online. I
>am considering Concorde RG-1207 batteries. The MEEL is:
>
> Load Amps Source
> Notes
> Light dimmer 0 -
> .700 Measured use .700 amps
> Electronic ignition 8 From Specs
> Fuel Pumps .500 From Specs
> Transponder .800 Measured
> Turn Coordinator .100 Measured
> Nav/Com .500 Measured
> Compass .200 Measured
> microMonitor .050 Measured
> Auto Pilot and Trim .500 Measured
> Prop 0 -
> 3 Measured 0 amps when not changing pitch
>
> Total 11.350
>
> Using two 10AH batteries yields:
>
> ((10AH + 10AH) * 50% ) / 11.350 Amps ) * (60 min/hr) = 53
> minutes battery
>only run time
It would be interesting to get a measured value on the ignition
system. I can't imagine what one would do with over 100 watts
of snort to keep an engine running.
>Is this realistic with dual dynamos, or should I consider larger capacity
>(and weight) batteries?
with two engine driven power sources, battery life and condition
is much less an issue as long as either source can sustain your
endurance loads indefinitely. Even if your ignition DOES take
the full 8A, it doesn't seem likely that you have a battery
size issue.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Primer? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:43 PM 7/12/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
>As I was partially constructed when I came upon The Aeroelectric
>Connection Iwent along with the kit manufacturer's instructions and
>installed a traditional, plunger style (for lack of a better term) primer.
>As I already havean electric boost pumpI'm considering switching to an
>electric primer valve.
>
>What are the advantages disadvantages of and electric primer valve? The
>added safety of having one less fuel line behind the firewall is all I can
>think of. Any input will be appreciated.
More than once in my nearly lifetime interest in aviation,
I have read dark-n-stormy-night stories by pilots wherein
manually stroking the primer kept and engine delivering
power of sufficient magnitude and duration to effect a
damage-free landing after some other portion of the main
fuel delivery system failed.
I've suggested that engines fitted with a primer port
for each cylinder could benefit from a po' man's
fuel injection system as a standby fuel delivery path.
A number of years ago, (I think right after the
root cause of John Denver's accident was published)
I had some conversation with another Long Ez owner
that wanted to do a total electric fuel management
system that takes advantage of the primer system
as an alternative fuel delivery system. We
brainstormed up the drawing at:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/All-Elect-Fuel.jpg
Take primer fuel from it's own strainer on the tank
you plan to exhaust last. Run through a filter, electric
shutoff valve, an electric pump, then through a needle
valve and finally to the primer tubes on the engine. Put
small quantity of fuel in tank, open shutoff, turn on pump,
run flow into measuring cup. Set needle valve for
flow equal to say 55-60% power. At this power level,
flight can be sustained at ANY mixture without
serious risk to engine.
All fuel management except firewall shutoff is
handled with panel mounted switches. No single
failure deprives the engine of fuel from at
least one tank. In flight fuel management is
crafted so that the left tank is the last
one to be drawn below 1/2.
The system gets pre-flight tested every flight
by using it to prime engine. Should primary
system become unavailable, shut off main fuel
flow. Turn on "primer" flow and adjust throttle
for smoothest running engine. You've just cheated
yourself out of the staring role in a gripping,
dark-n-stormy-night story.
Some folks have installed this system into a
more contemporary system with fuel selector valve
by teeing into the fuel line downstream of boost pump
with an electric valve.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | DC power jacks for portables in airplane/car |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:16 PM 7/11/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Jim Streit (wooody04@bellsouth.net) on Friday, July 11, 2003 at 10:16:26
>
>Friday, July 11, 2003
>
>Jim Streit
>
>,
>Email: wooody04@bellsouth.net
>Comments/Questions: Bob, I have an Anywhere map and Ipaq PDA from control
>Vision and the garmin "brick" GPS. The GPS and Ipaq are powered from the
>airplane through a cigarette adapter plug. The problem is that the plug
>seems to work loose and I loose the power connection. Can you recomend
>some type of connector (both male and female) in the power cord and female
>in the plane, so thatI can plug into "connector/jack" while in the
>airplane and use the cig plug when in my car.
I have accessory power connectors in my cars that
bypass that butt-ugly cigar lighter jack. There's
no reason you can't have tight fitting, reliable
connections for DC power in both the car -AND-
the airplane.
Likely candidates are the 274-010 and 274-013
pair of connectors from Radio Shack. See
http://216.55.140.222/temp/274-010.jpg
and
http://216.55.140.222/temp/274-013.jpg
These are metal-shell parts intended originally
for microphone cable connectors. They're designed
for a bizillion mate/de-mate cycles. The plug
locks into the jack to prevent inadvertent disengagement.
The pair of connectors is about $8.50
Consider a sheet metal bracket under the dash of
your car wired to a fused source of +12V that
mounts a couple of the jacks. A similar installation
would work in your airplane as well.
These will not "work loose" . . . and are more
compact that the cigar lighter socket/plug
combination.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Yes, Bob. Your presumption is correct. LSE supplies a pre-wired harness with a15
pin connector on one end the direct crank sensor cirquit board on the other.
The 15 pin connector hooks up to the control module which is recommended to
be installed behind the firewall. A minimum of 3 inches away from these input
wires the installer is supposed to route 2 seaparate RG58 coaxial cables thatconnect
to the 2ignition coils (assuming a 4 cylinder engine)
LSE cannot recommend cutting re-splicing/soldering the input wires to get them
through the firewall so they recommend drilling a hole just large enough to get
the bare minimum of the 15 pin connector (cover removed) through the firewall.I
could do that just find a mondo grommet that I'd have tocut a radius in
but itkinda bugs me. I think Ilike your d-sub idea but I don't know much at all
about them. Seen the pictures on the tools page but that's it. I'm pretty sure
when I say 15 pin connector it is a d-sub but I don't know for sure I certainly
don't know if they are removable but I will research that pathas soon as
time allows.
Unfortunately I'm having to work out of town for a week and wont have internet
access until Saturday the 19th. This is my last post until then but I look forward
to your response.
Thanks,
Grant
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <BOB.NUCKOLLS@COX.NET>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <BOB.NUCKOLLS@COX.NET>
At 03:21 PM 7/13/2003 -0500, you wrote:
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <JPOINT@MINDSPRING.COM>
I just installed this as well. I decided that it would be less work to
drill a 1 inch hole in the firewall than to cut/ splice the wiring. A
good 1 inch hole saw works well for this. I used a stainless firewall
shield with an asbestos washer to seal the opening. On the plus side,
you can run lots of other wires through this big hole (but not the LSE
high voltage wires!
Do I presume correctly that there is a manufacturer supplied
harness with connector installed that needs to go through
the firewall? I think I would replace the connector with
one that uses removable pins . . . like a d-sub. Before you
install pins in new connector, route the harness through
a smaller hole.
What kind of high voltage wires need to come through the
firewall?
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Thanks for the input, Paul. I'm pretty sure I want to follow in your footsteps.
I'll be working out of town for a week wont be back 'till the 19th but would
like to be kept up to date on your progress and listen to any recommendations
you may have.
Thanks,
Grant Krueger
Kitfox
FW Fwd
From: "Garrison Sem" <CHASM711@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Garrison Sem" <CHASM711@MSN.COM>
I am also installing a plasma III in an RV-8. After much wasting time I
drew a brief schematic, labled the wires and cut. You don't have to cut
the power and ground wires if you are going to reuse the connector.
Tomorrow Im going to see if there is a D sub compatible with the female
connectror on the box and ask Klaus what wires its ok to run in a bundle
with what. I also want to know if it is ok to substiture RG 400 for the RG
58 that comes with the l Plasma III. I know its not permissible to run the
wires from the crank sensor near the coils and the coax to the coils.
Paul Schattauer
RV8 N808PS
canopy and details
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <BOB.NUCKOLLS@COX.NET>
Reply-To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:43:21 -0500
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<BOB.NUCKOLLS@COX.NET>
At 03:21 PM 7/13/2003 -0500, you wrote:
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point
<JPOINT@MINDSPRING.COM>
I just installed this as well. I decided that it would be less work to
drill a 1 inch hole in the firewall than to cut/ splice the wiring. A
good 1 inch hole saw works well for this. I used a stainless firewall
shield with an asbestos washer to seal the opening. On the plus side,
you can run lots of other wires through this big hole (but not the LSE
high voltage wires!
Do I presume correctly that there is a manufacturer supplied
harness with connector installed that needs to go through
the firewall? I think I would replace the connector with
one that uses removable pins . . . like a d-sub. Before you
install pins in new connector, route the harness through
a smaller hole.
What kind of high voltage wires need to come through the
firewall?
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | Aux Battery Management Module |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:29 AM 7/10/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Bart Morgan (bartmo@earthlink.net) on Wednesday, July 9, 2003 at 20:29:57
>
>Wednesday, July 9, 2003
>
>Bart Morgan
>
>,
>Email: bartmo@earthlink.net
>Comments/Questions: Bob,
>I want to install an alternate battery in my Dragonfly. Are the AEC
>9005-101 and 201 what I need to do that.
>Best regards,
>Bart
You don't NEED the aux battery management module to install
a second battery. Simply add a contactor, battery and battery
bus along side the first battery and an aux battery master
switch on the panel. What IS HIGHLY RECOMMENDED is active
notification of alternator failure. This should be a flashing
light and/or alarm tone in your headset.
If you already have the low voltage warning system then
you don't need an AEC9005-101. If you still need
the low voltage warning, then I suggest you either
acquire the AEC9005-101 or built it's equal.
If you purchase the AEC9005, then it comes with an
additional feature for automatically managing the aux
battery contactor if you wire it as shown on page 7
of the instructions. You can download a copy of
the instructions at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/9005-701B.pdf
Note that you will also need an S700-2-10 switch
from B&C at www.bandc.biz
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Common questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:17 PM 7/8/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
><nkilford@etravel.org>
>
>Bob,
>
>I saw the comment about being asked questions over and over and it struck me
>that it's probably true, especially because I've seen various messages asking
>questions to which I've wanted to know the answers, and which aren't answered
>directly in the Aeroelectric Connection book.
>
>Is there some way that we can feed back to you suggestions for things (often
>absurdly simple) to include in the next edition?
>
>Two examples that spring to mind are: this question below about contactor /
>relay diodes; and the recent question about where to join multiple wires on
>the same circuit (the actual question was about posn lights).
I hesitate to put much in the way of catalog information
in the book. Catalog data can be pretty fluid stuff and change
with no notice. I've been archiving a lot of conversation
on various topics on the list with the notion of editing
them into a kind of frequency asked questions publication
that would be down-loadable from the website.
You may be aware of the fact that it's MUCH easier
to put detailed photographic illustration into a web
publication than a paper publication. I'll cite posted
examples in the form of a comic book approach for Bob's
Shop Notes. For the moment, I don't see a practical
way to put this much info into the 'Connection and keep
it from becoming 2 inches thick and selling for $60 . . .
The Connection's mission is, I believe, well served with
the symbiotic combination of paper and Internet publication.
I think I posted a note earlier that the website is slated
for some major changes both to expand the coverage of simple-
I understand your suggesting and will endeavor to address
the issue in the most practical way.
Bob . . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Haven't we already developed a solution to this "problem" of the big hole
for the connector & associated wires?
Isn't it the "stainless steel grab bar" used on the forward side of the
firewall over a 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" round hole, then all the wires sealed with
a 3 inch or so length of firesleeve clamped onto the 1 1/4 or 1 1/2" OD of
the metal fitting (end cut off of the grab bar) on one end, and the wires
coming out of the metal fitting being wrapped with strips of firesleeve and
then clamped tightly inside the other end of the 3" length of firesleeve?
So what if there is a connector there? Run it through first, then run all
your other wires through and finish just as Bob has described and
illustrated with photos on the website.
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha"
<tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Yes, Bob. Your presumption is correct. LSE supplies a pre-wired harness
with a15 pin connector on one end the direct crank sensor cirquit board on
the other. The 15 pin connector hooks up to the control module which is
recommended to be installed behind the firewall. A minimum of 3 inches away
from these input wires the installer is supposed to route 2 seaparate RG58
coaxial cables thatconnect to the 2ignition coils (assuming a 4 cylinder
engine)
>
>
> LSE cannot recommend cutting re-splicing/soldering the input wires to get
them through the firewall so they recommend drilling a hole just large
enough to get the bare minimum of the 15 pin connector (cover removed)
through the firewall.I could do that just find a mondo grommet that I'd
have tocut a radius in but itkinda bugs me. I think Ilike your d-sub idea
but I don't know much at all about them. Seen the pictures on the tools page
but that's it. I'm pretty sure when I say 15 pin connector it is a d-sub but
I don't know for sure I certainly don't know if they are removable but I
will research that pathas soon as time allows.
>
>
> Unfortunately I'm having to work out of town for a week and wont have
internet access until Saturday the 19th. This is my last post until then but
I look forward to your response.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Grant
>
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <BOB.NUCKOLLS@COX.NET>
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration
> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 15:43:21 -0500
>
> -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<BOB.NUCKOLLS@COX.NET>
>
> At 03:21 PM 7/13/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> -- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point
<JPOINT@MINDSPRING.COM>
>
> I just installed this as well. I decided that it would be less work to
> drill a 1 inch hole in the firewall than to cut/ splice the wiring. A
> good 1 inch hole saw works well for this. I used a stainless firewall
> shield with an asbestos washer to seal the opening. On the plus side,
> you can run lots of other wires through this big hole (but not the LSE
> high voltage wires!
>
>
> Do I presume correctly that there is a manufacturer supplied
> harness with connector installed that needs to go through
> the firewall? I think I would replace the connector with
> one that uses removable pins . . . like a d-sub. Before you
> install pins in new connector, route the harness through
> a smaller hole.
>
> What kind of high voltage wires need to come through the
> firewall?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
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