Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:31 AM - Re: Routing cables around back of panel (Neville Kilford)
2. 01:42 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS D10 Problem (ivorphillips)
3. 04:58 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS D10 Problem (John Mireley)
4. 05:07 AM - Inductive pickup (brent bourgeois)
5. 06:10 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS D10 Problem (Canyon)
6. 06:33 AM - Re: Sensing low coolant level (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 06:35 AM - Re: Engine vibration monitor? (Scott Bilinski)
8. 07:01 AM - Re: About Learning Electronics (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 07:39 AM - Re: Inductive pickup (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 07:46 AM - Re: Engine vibration monitor? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 07:48 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS D10 Problem (CozyGirrrl@aol.com)
12. 08:00 AM - Re: About Learning Electronics (drew.schumann@us.army.mil)
13. 08:18 AM - Re: Re: Sensing low coolant level (mailbox bob at mail.flyboybob.com)
14. 08:28 AM - Van's gauge's (Scott Bilinski)
15. 08:35 AM - Re: Engine vibration monitor? (Scott Bilinski)
16. 08:39 AM - Re: 10676 Domeier (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 08:44 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS D10 Problem (Gerry Holland)
18. 08:51 AM - Glasair smokes radios . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 08:55 AM - Re: small digital voltmeter 0 -1 volt (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 08:58 AM - Re: Inductive pickup (Ronald J. Parigoris)
21. 09:18 AM - Re: Van's gauge's ()
22. 09:27 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS D10 Problem (Dan Checkoway)
23. 09:35 AM - Re: Re: Sensing low coolant level (owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com)
24. 09:47 AM - Re: batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 10:48 AM - Re: coolant level detection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: Sensing low coolant level (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
27. 10:55 AM - Re: Routing cables around back of panel (owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com)
28. 11:09 AM - Re: Engine vibration monitor? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
29. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: Sensing low coolant level (Ed Anderson)
30. 11:49 AM - Re: Engine vibration monitor? (Scott Bilinski)
31. 12:05 PM - Re: Re: Sensing low coolant level (owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com)
32. 12:44 PM - Re: small digital voltmeter 0 -1 volt (Phil Birkelbach)
33. 12:45 PM - Palm + Grand Rapids EIS (Bob Bittner)
34. 01:07 PM - Dumb fuse question (Charles Brame)
35. 02:02 PM - Re: Dumb fuse question (Phil Birkelbach)
36. 02:11 PM - Re: Dual Battery / Single Alternator (David Schaefer)
37. 02:26 PM - Re: Dumb fuse question (Matt Prather)
38. 02:47 PM - Tach signals? (owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com)
39. 03:21 PM - UPSAT (RSwanson)
40. 03:30 PM - Re: Engine vibration monitor? (Finn Lassen)
41. 03:33 PM - Panel layout - request for comments (Neville Kilford)
42. 03:35 PM - Re: Dual Battery / Single Alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
43. 03:37 PM - Re: UPSAT (Dawson, Bill)
44. 03:47 PM - Re: UPSAT (Bruce Gray)
45. 03:55 PM - Re: UPSAT (BobsV35B@aol.com)
46. 04:03 PM - Breakers & disable switches (Terry Watson)
47. 04:17 PM - Tach Signals? (owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com)
48. 04:35 PM - Re: (RSwanson)
49. 05:21 PM - tiny tach (Charlie & Tupper England)
50. 05:30 PM - Re: batteries (C J Heitman)
51. 06:53 PM - Re: Re: quit posting in HTML (Carlos Sa)
52. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: quit posting in HTML (RSwanson)
53. 08:37 PM - Re: Dual Battery / Single Alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
54. 09:10 PM - Re: Panel layout - request for comments (Tony Babb)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Routing cables around back of panel |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
Matt,
You're right! I'm in the UK. Trouble is, we spend so much time drinking
tea, eating kidney pie, and discussing the weather, there's little time for
developing this sort of product ;-)
I just had a squint at the JB site, and there is this amazing review on their
"creative uses" page:
"I own a dragster. During a competition, the cylinder head cracked. I didn't
have time to repair or replace it, so I filled the crack with J-B WELD. Well,
I made my time trials, and took second place! The head still works great, and
I'm not going to order a new one."
Amazing stuff. I'll give them a shout later on -- it might be that there
are, in fact, distributors over here.
Cheers.
Nev
do not archive
--
Jodel D150 in progress
UK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Routing cables around back of panel
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
>
>
> Neville,
>
> I am going to guess that you don't live in the US (or maybe on
> the planet earth... :) ). JB Weld is a two part, quick and dirty
> epoxy. It is generally available at most auto parts stores and
> places like Walmart
>
> Here's a link to its homepage:
>
> http://www.j-bweld.com/coldweld.html
>
> Matt-
> N34RD
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
> > <nkilford@etravel.org>
> >
> > Bob,
> >
> > Thanks for the advice, but what's the JB Weld? A regular epoxy? I
> > can't seem to turn up anything on it. If I can't find a decent enough
> > glue, I'll use some soft csk alum. rivets to add a few
> > strategically-positioned supports before stove-enamelling. Should turn
> > out alright, finish-wise.
> >
> > Nev
> >
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon EFIS D10 Problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "ivorphillips" <ivor@ivorphillips.flyer.co.uk>
I f you go to Dynon web site
http://www.dynondevelopment.com/downloads/EFIS-D10_Installation_Guide_20030319.pdf
all the pin outs are shown
regards Ivor Phillips----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dynon EFIS D10 Problem
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
<Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> >From memory when I wired that harness last week, there is a send, rcv,
> and ground going from the PC serial port to the Dynon.
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
> 2003 - The year of flight!
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Canyon [mailto:steve.canyon@verizon.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 7:18 PM
> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dynon EFIS D10 Problem
> >
> >
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Canyon
> > --> <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
> >
> > David Chalmers wrote:
> > >The connector only has power and ground - no remote
> > >sensors are used.
> > ---
> > If this is all that's connected to the unit from your computer, what
> > means are you expecting to carry the new file data over to the Dynon?
> >
> > Steve
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon EFIS D10 Problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Mireley <mireley@msu.edu>
Larry Bowen wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> From memory when I wired that harness last week, there is a send, rcv,
> and ground going from the PC serial port to the Dynon.
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
Did you try switching transmit and receive?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Inductive pickup |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: brent bourgeois <bjb3013@yahoo.com>
Thanks for everyones help.
I will try to get the actual pickup sensor from
tinytach but I have a feeling that it is built in. I
need a way to convert the pulses from an ignition wire
to voltage and pulses per minute. How does an
inductive pickup for a timing light or a fluke meter
work? Is it just a coil of wire? If so how many wraps
and what gauge wire? Is there a sender that I can buy
or make that will give me these voltage pulses?
Thanks for the help
BJB
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Dynon EFIS D10 Problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Canyon <steve.canyon@verizon.net>
Larry Bowen wrote:
> From memory when I wired that harness last week, there is a send, rcv,
>and ground going from the PC serial port to the Dynon.
---
Ahh... OK, I was hoping for such. :-)
Steve
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Sensing low coolant level |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:16 AM 7/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
>
>From: "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers@FDIC.gov>
>To: "'aeroelectric-list@matronics.com'" <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Annunciator for Water Level Sensor
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:14:36 -0400
>
>The engine that I will be installing in my kit-built Mustang II aircraft is
>water-cooled. I have a water-level sensor that I obtained from a Mazda RX-7
>radiator, which I want to use to tell me when the water level in the
>radiator is too low. I do not have the circuitry imbedded in the car's
>computer that interprets the signal from the sensor and turns on a light in
>the car.
>
>The sensor screws into an appropriate spot in the radiator (or a fitting in
>a water hose/line) and has a current that runs from a wire attached to the
>sensor to the isolated probe that screws into the radiator and then flows
>through the water in the radiator to a ground attached to the metal in the
>radiator that touches the water. As long is there is water at the level of
>the sensor, the current flows, but if the water drops below the sensor, the
>current stops.
>
>My question is this: What sort of circuit do I need to allow an annunciator
>light on the instrument panel to turn on when the water in the radiator gets
>too low? The current flow through the water is subject to some resistance
>(5 to 10 thousand ohms as measured by my Multimeter). I need something that
>will cause a separate circuit with a light bulb in it to turn on when the
>flow of current through the sensor stops, i.e. no water is touching the
>sensor. Any ideas?
Can't answer your question without knowing more about the physics
of how the Mazda sensor operates. I THINK those were a power thermistor
that was monitored for resistance change when power was applied to
the sensor. If the resistance did change, then it was NOT submerged
in liquid, if it did not change, then water level was sufficient
to keep the sensor covered.
There are other possibilities. I did a Google search on this
topic and only found discussions on Mazda radiator leaks
and fragility of these sensors, seems it's easy to pull the
connections out of them.
One writer noted that they're only $12 part. Might drop by
a parts store and get one to bring home and see if I can
figure out how it works and what's necessary to communicate
with one of them.
Alternatively, there are other technologies and components
suited to this task that are more plug-n-play. For example,
a number of companies make products like this:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/OS-10_Series.pdf
wherein you put the sensor through the wall of the tank,
hook up 12 volts and a light bulb and you're done.
Very user friendly.
Bob . . .
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
>
>
><META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2654.89">
>Annunciator for Water Level Sensor
>
>
>The engine that I will be installing in my kit-built Mustang II aircraft
>is water-cooled. I have a water-level sensor that I obtained from a Mazda
>RX-7 radiator, which I want to use to tell me when the water level in the
>radiator is too low. I do not have the circuitry imbedded in the car's
>computer that interprets the signal from the sensor and turns on a light
>in the car.
>
>
>The sensor screws into an appropriate spot in the radiator (or a fitting
>in a water hose/line) and has a current that runs from a wire attached to
>the sensor to the isolated probe that screws into the radiator and then
>flows through the water in the radiator to a ground attached to the metal
>in the radiator that touches the water. As long is there is water at the
>level of the sensor, the current flows, but if the water drops below the
>sensor, the current stops.
>
>
>My question is this: What sort of circuit do I need to allow an
>annunciator light on the instrument panel to turn on when the water in the
>radiator gets too low? The current flow through the water is subject to
>some resistance (5 to 10 thousand ohms as measured by my Multimeter). I
>need something that will cause a separate circuit with a light bulb in it
>to turn on when the flow of current through the sensor stops, i.e. no
>water is touching the sensor. Any ideas?
>
>
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Engine vibration monitor? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Just kicking the idea around to see if it would work, with out costing a
fortune. I am always tinkering with something.
The biggest problem I see is relating a display change to a cause. I
beleive the display can provide a large amount of potential information,
BUT, no way to decypher it. Oh well, thinking is cheap!
At 05:55 PM 7/24/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 10:49 AM 7/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
>><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>
>>I am thinking of creating (for me) a engine vibration monitor to go along
>>with my engine monitor display. I can use an accelerometer and a display to
>>measure the vibration. They do this on expensive, critical pumps and motors
>>now. The idea is to have a display that reads from 1-100(?), and at cruise
>>you would be reading a steady 60 (?). Any change of more than (5) points
>>(?) and you might have a problem. The idea is to associate common operating
>>senarios with a number on the display. Lets say you set 23 square reguarly
>>in cruise and always read 52. One day you are reading 63, just might want
>>to land and check it out. I know there are issues such as the sensor needs
>>24 volts, and I might need to filter out some "stuff" electricall but it is
>>fairly easy to do for 2-3 hundred bucks.
>>
>>Anyone have any thoughts, info, experience on this?
>
>
> Vibration sensing and display technology is relatively
> easy to implement . . . especially if you don't need
> to accurately quantify the measurements. Further,
> you can do this for under $300.
>
> But before we launch off on the hammer-n-tongs of such
> a task, can you identify what incipient failures
> of engine components that would present vibration
> symptoms so subtle that you need instrumentation
> to detect them?
>
> In about 1500 hours, I've had one incident of an
> aborted flight due to bad magneto (caught in
> preflight) and one other with a bad plug (probably
> failed last flight but not noticed until next
> pre-flight). I know there are plenty of dark-n-stormy
> night stories out there that relate various and sundry
> malfunctions. Further, ads that would sell us kilobuck
> engine monitors would have us believe that the true
> path to flying comfort is to link as much of our
> biological nervous systems to that of our machines.
>
> Based on observations of nearly a century of aviating
> behind propellers and dancing pistons, the probability
> of an engine failure ruining you day is tiny compared
> to all of the other things that can and do go wrong.
>
> Check out the accident reports as to root causes . . .
> engine failures are small segment of the total and of
> those, I've heard of perhaps a handful of incidents
> where panel mounted instrumentation MIGHT have mitigated
> the outcome.
>
> Ever fly over a large body of water? Perfectly
> running engines SOUND terrible as soon as your
> distance to land exceeds the gliding distance of your
> airplane. May I suggest that adding gobs of system
> data on the panel has a higher probability of
> being a distraction and/or GENERATOR of irrational
> tension than for making your flying experience more
> comfortable.
>
> As distraction and/or tension go up, your ability as
> pilot goes down. If have no better way to spend $300
> and hours to fabricate such a system at this stage of
> your project's completion -AND- you really believe the thing
> would add value to your flying experience, we can talk
> about some ways to do it.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: About Learning Electronics |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:52 AM 7/24/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>
>Ten Things to Know about Learning Electronics:
>
>
>1) Any book about electronics that begins with vacuum tubes; just
>tip it into the trash or bandsaw out the insides and glue the pages
>together for a neat Book-Stash. Subscribe to an electronics magazine. Buy
>Forrest Mims' "Engineer's Notebook at your local Radio Shack (The only
>book you will need for a long time). ---he's online too.
This is an excellent text. Also look though the used book stores
on 'net for anything by Thomas A. Floyd. In particular
Electric Circuits Fundamentals (any edition)
Excellent teaching style, expensive new ($105) but I've found
copies on 'net for under $20.
>2) Everything you ever wanted to know is available online. Use the
>Google miracle. Broadband please!
>
>3) Albert Einstein taught: If you are not interested in something
>you really can't learn it. Education usually consists of fooling oneself
>into being interested. This is itself a learned art and usually involves
>solving some puzzle that you yourself have created.
The very best are passionate about their craft. Too many
graduate from college with the notion that because they
regurgitated facts with sufficient accuracy to acquire
a diploma, they're going on to be successful . . . doesn't
work that way . ..
>4) Get to know the names of things. If you are reading something and
>come across "phase converter", find out what a "phase converter" is. You
>may never need one, but that's important to know too.
Excellent point. I've got a 13 year old nephew that I'll
begin to tutor in a few weeks. One of the first books I've
provided to him is a dictionary of electronic terms.
>5) You don't have to know everything. Electronics is a huge field
>and to know microprocessors does not mean you know much about radios. Even
>knowing about low frequency radios does not mean you know much about high
>frequencies. It's a huge field.
You got that right! Be aware that the whole universe (of
which electronics is a tiny subset) runs on physics. EVERY
basic principal of physics is a stone simple concept that
you can explain to your grandmother . . . seek out and
understand the simple-ideas and you'll find that you have
a grasp on things that perhaps 1% of your contemporaries
possess.
>6) Pick up several multimeters. One of them should measure
>capacitance. Buy an old Tektronics 465 oscilloscope on eBay for $100. This
>is the Cessna 172 of 'scopes and you can pass it on to your son, or sell
>it on eBay to get your money back.
>http://www.surplussales.com/Manuals/man_tek.html has manuals. Buy a cheap
>function generator or make one using an Exar XR2206 function-generator IC
>(a great first project too!).
The 465 is a venerable workhorse. I've had several.
There are alternatives in other models and brands
that are equally useful to you and easier to learn to
use. If you spot something on Ebay that interests you,
drop a note about it on the 'list . . . we can take
a peek at it and offer a not-to-exceed bid price.
I've picked up some excellent values all for under $200
>7) You can't do without a prototype breadboard. It makes prototyping
>and learning much easier. And a stock of parts in your junk box is required.
>
>8) Get to know Digikey, All-Electronics, and other neat sources of
>parts. Get their catalogs and page through them often for a good education.
When I was very young, Allied Electronics would send you
a marvelous book for the price of a postcard. Knowing what
things are called, what they look like, how many sizes they
come in, what they cost and where to buy them is a huge
data asset and the data is essentially free. All it takes
is your time and interest to gather it up.
All you'll ever want to know is probably out there on
the 'net but the portability and true random access
browsing features of books will never be matched by
the CRT and keyboard.
>9) Integrated Circuits do almost everything. Get to know them
>personally. When a circuit has a bunch of transistors and twenty or more
>parts-know that there is an integrated circuit that does that job better
>and cheaper.
>
>10) It puzzles beginners why there are SO MANY DARNED part numbers. The
>reason is that there are so many different characteristics. Take
>heart! Examples of the characteristics are, package details, voltage
>withstand, operating temps, volts, amps, wattage, etc. etc. etc. etc.
>Develop a palette of favorite parts and become familiar with them. Then
>you can use different stuff when you need to satisfy special parameters.
Selling electronics parts is like selling laundry
soap. There are a few major suppliers that offer
huge numbers of options. There are only three or
four suppliers for all those shelves of laundry
soap too . . . to increase market share, one has
to have a bigger share of options even when
differences between them is trivial.
There was a note on the list earlier this week
about a particular part number of transistor called
out on a schematic for a DC power regulator. In
a few years, experience and knowledge will make
it obvious to you too that there are probably
a thousand different parts that ALL would perform
well in that particular circuit.
>And for free----My physics professor in electro-magnetic theory said to
>me, "Take some advice.stay away from antenna design. It's all Black Art
>and Voo Doo."
Well put! Actually lenses mirrors have a lot to do with it.
RF is just a lower frequency component of light and the
two phenomenon share much in they way of behavior. However,
it's easy to understand enough about antennas to have a
good working knowledge without understanding all that
makes 'em work the way they do.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Inductive pickup |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:06 AM 7/25/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: brent bourgeois <bjb3013@yahoo.com>
>
>Thanks for everyones help.
> I will try to get the actual pickup sensor from
>tinytach but I have a feeling that it is built in. I
>need a way to convert the pulses from an ignition wire
>to voltage and pulses per minute. How does an
>inductive pickup for a timing light or a fluke meter
>work? Is it just a coil of wire? If so how many wraps
>and what gauge wire? Is there a sender that I can buy
>or make that will give me these voltage pulses?
>Thanks for the help
>BJB
Are you sure you're dealing with an inductive
pickup? Inductive is a transformer that senses
magnetic field around a wire due to flow . . . or
more properly change-in-flow of electrons in
the wire.
I prototyped a prop synchronizer for twins
a few years back using pulses from one cylinder
on each engine to detect rotational phase differences
between engines. The spark event could be EASILY
detected through the shielded plug wire.
The inductive sensor will have two wires coming
of a core through which the plug wire must pass.
If the wire is NOT shielded (common to many
new engines and in particular Rotax), you can
sense the spark event by simply wrapping a
single wire around the outside of the plug wire.
Here, we're depending on electro-static coupling,
the very thing we try to avoid in some situations
by shielding a wire.
I presume you're looking for some way to adapt
an existing electronic tach to some form of
spark-plug sensing. If the tach is set up for
4-cycle (1 spark per cylinder every two
revolutions) and 4 cylinder (2 total sparks each
revolution) then reading a single plug
will require some signal conditioning lest
you get a reading that is 1/4 true RPM.
Do you have tachometer drive connections
open on these engines? Why not build a
hall-effect sensor to screw onto these
drives that will produce the exact number
of pulses/revolution that the tachometer
expects?
Sensing a single plug gives you a very
low signal frequency that makes readings
below 1000 rpm really shaky . . . not a
bit deal 'cause you don't operate the
engine at these speeds . . . but it bug
some folks that the tach doesn't read
well at idle rpms.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Engine vibration monitor? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:35 AM 7/25/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>Just kicking the idea around to see if it would work, with out costing a
>fortune. I am always tinkering with something.
>
>The biggest problem I see is relating a display change to a cause. I
>beleive the display can provide a large amount of potential information,
>BUT, no way to decypher it. Oh well, thinking is cheap!
. . . and useful. There is as much value in deducing what
works and is helpful as it is to figure out what doesn't work
or creates more work/problems than it fixes. In this venue
we're free to fully exercise this activity.
I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't fully massage the idea.
Whether if you ultimately decide to do it or not to do it, I
hope that decision is based on your understanding of the trade-offs
as opposed to the advice of me or anyone else.
I'll suggest that the AeroElectric-List is the best place
to explore the simple-ideas upon which you will ultimately
ground your decision.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon EFIS D10 Problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: CozyGirrrl@aol.com
In a message dated 7/25/2003 6:59:16 AM Central Daylight Time,
mireley@msu.edu writes:
> Larry Bowen wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> >
> >From memory when I wired that harness last week, there is a send, rcv,
> >and ground going from the PC serial port to the Dynon.
> >
> >-
> >Larry Bowen
>
>
> Did you try switching transmit and receive?
More importantly, do TX / RX cross over between connectors?(TX wire on one
end is RX on ther end)
...Chrissi
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: About Learning Electronics |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: drew.schumann@us.army.mil
I was going to reply to the original post, when Bob's excellent reply hit my screen.
>1) Any book about electronics that begins with vacuum
> tubes; just
> >tip it into the trash or bandsaw out the insides and glue the
> pages
> >together for a neat Book-Stash. Subscribe to an electronics
> magazine. Buy
> >Forrest Mims' "Engineer's Notebook at your local Radio Shack (The
> only
> >book you will need for a long time). ---he's online too.
I have a little book of his with several projects in it. I've made one of the
projects, but the book is locked up in my toolbox, umpteen thousand miles away.
I think I'll order, or get my wife to send me another one. Or check online
> This is an excellent text. Also look though the used book stores
> on 'net for anything by Thomas A. Floyd. In particular
> Electric Circuits Fundamentals (any edition)
>
> Excellent teaching style, expensive new ($105) but I've found
> copies on 'net for under $20.
I'll look for it. Unfortunately, most auction sites are off-limits for me.
>
>
> >2) Everything you ever wanted to know is available online.
> Use the
> >Google miracle. Broadband please!
> >
> >3) Albert Einstein taught: If you are not interested in
> something
> >you really can't learn it. Education usually consists of fooling
> oneself
> >into being interested. This is itself a learned art and usually
> involves
> >solving some puzzle that you yourself have created.
>
> The very best are passionate about their craft. Too many
> graduate from college with the notion that because they
> regurgitated facts with sufficient accuracy to acquire
> a diploma, they're going on to be successful . . . doesn't
> work that way . ..
I have to say that I honestly don't know if I feel that way about electronics or
not. I KNOW I'm passionate about working on airplanes, especially the creating/fabricating
part, and I am close to fanatical about "improving" over certified
aircraft. The more I see the poor workmanship and schlock on the certifieds
I work on, the more I see Bob's and others' points about the value of experimental
aircraft.
>
>
> >4) Get to know the names of things. If you are reading
> something and
> >come across "phase converter", find out what a "phase converter"
> is. You
> >may never need one, but that's important to know too.
>
> Excellent point. I've got a 13 year old nephew that I'll
> begin to tutor in a few weeks. One of the first books I've
> provided to him is a dictionary of electronic terms.
>
I speak three languages, and the first thing that struck me about electronics,
is the difference and complexity of the language. There is also a tendency among
those who "speak the language" to overlook critical points that make it especially
hard for those of us who speak electronics as a "second language" to
follow the conversation.
>
> >5) You don't have to know everything. Electronics is a huge
> field
> >and to know microprocessors does not mean you know much about
> radios. Even
> >knowing about low frequency radios does not mean you know much
> about high
> >frequencies. It's a huge field.
>
> You got that right! Be aware that the whole universe (of
> which electronics is a tiny subset) runs on physics. EVERY
> basic principal of physics is a stone simple concept that
> you can explain to your grandmother . . . seek out and
> understand the simple-ideas and you'll find that you have
> a grasp on things that perhaps 1% of your contemporaries
> possess.
Those two statements just made me simultaneously feel like much less of a moron,
and completely overwhelmed, at the same time. Now to decide what tiny subset
I need to learn to be an effective and knowledgeable avionics/aeroelectrics
guy.
>
>
> >6) Pick up several multimeters. One of them should measure
> >capacitance. Buy an old Tektronics 465 oscilloscope on eBay for
> $100. This
> >is the Cessna 172 of 'scopes and you can pass it on to your son,
> or sell
> >it on eBay to get your money back.
> >http://www.surplussales.com/Manuals/man_tek.html has manuals. Buy
> a cheap
> >function generator or make one using an Exar XR2206 function-
> generator IC
> >(a great first project too!).
>
> The 465 is a venerable workhorse. I've had several.
> There are alternatives in other models and brands
> that are equally useful to you and easier to learn to
> use. If you spot something on Ebay that interests you,
> drop a note about it on the 'list . . . we can take
> a peek at it and offer a not-to-exceed bid price.
> I've picked up some excellent values all for under $200
>
I'm extremely fortunate, in that there are several Iraqi commo/maintenance vans
laying in a pile near here. Sounds like its time to do some serious "looting".
I think I can probably get a dozen oscilloscopes as early as tomorrow. All
the instructions are in English and Russian, and I speak both languages, so....
>
> >7) You can't do without a prototype breadboard. It makes
> prototyping
> >and learning much easier. And a stock of parts in your junk box
> is required.
> >
> >8) Get to know Digikey, All-Electronics, and other neat
> sources of
> >parts. Get their catalogs and page through them often for a good
> education.
> When I was very young, Allied Electronics would send you
> a marvelous book for the price of a postcard. Knowing what
> things are called, what they look like, how many sizes they
> come in, what they cost and where to buy them is a huge
> data asset and the data is essentially free. All it takes
> is your time and interest to gather it up.
>
> All you'll ever want to know is probably out there on
> the 'net but the portability and true random access
> browsing features of books will never be matched by
> the CRT and keyboard.
I'll look into finding a catalog source. As a hobby, I sign up for all the junk
mail I can, knowing that this address I'm at will go away permanently when I
leave.
>
> >9) Integrated Circuits do almost everything. Get to know
> them
> >personally. When a circuit has a bunch of transistors and twenty
> or more
> >parts-know that there is an integrated circuit that does that job
> better
> >and cheaper.
> >
> >10) It puzzles beginners why there are SO MANY DARNED part
> numbers. The
> >reason is that there are so many different characteristics. Take
> >heart! Examples of the characteristics are, package details,
> voltage
> >withstand, operating temps, volts, amps, wattage, etc. etc. etc.
> etc.
> >Develop a palette of favorite parts and become familiar with
> them. Then
> >you can use different stuff when you need to satisfy special
> parameters.
> Selling electronics parts is like selling laundry
> soap. There are a few major suppliers that offer
> huge numbers of options. There are only three or
> four suppliers for all those shelves of laundry
> soap too . . . to increase market share, one has
> to have a bigger share of options even when
> differences between them is trivial.
>
> There was a note on the list earlier this week
> about a particular part number of transistor called
> out on a schematic for a DC power regulator. In
> a few years, experience and knowledge will make
> it obvious to you too that there are probably
> a thousand different parts that ALL would perform
> well in that particular circuit.
This is exciting and scary at the same time. I don't even know where to start.
>
>
> >And for free----My physics professor in electro-magnetic theory
> said to
> >me, "Take some advice.stay away from antenna design. It's all
> Black Art
> >and Voo Doo."
>
> Well put! Actually lenses mirrors have a lot to do with it.
> RF is just a lower frequency component of light and the
> two phenomenon share much in they way of behavior. However,
> it's easy to understand enough about antennas to have a
> good working knowledge without understanding all that
> makes 'em work the way they do.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> --------------------------------------------
> ( Knowing about a thing is different than )
> ( understanding it. One can know a lot )
> ( and still understand nothing. )
> ( C.F. Kettering )
> --------------------------------------------
Well, I can't say I know a lot about electronics, especially since I've started
reading the Aeroelectric website. All I can say is that I share Bob's fundamental
philosophy on life. I truly believe that to codify any man's work into
a code, regulations, or law, is to destroy it. I am currently working on the
"concept" of an aircraft which is "better than certified", but don't want to be
labelled a dreamer, so I won't actually tout it until it flies. And I am rapidly
discovering that the electrics will be crucial, as most of the individual
systems' problems have relatively simple solutions. But that's all I'll share
for now.
Drew
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Sensing low coolant level |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mailbox bob at mail.flyboybob.com" <bob@flyboybob.com>
Bob (Rogers),
I suggest that you ignore the water level issue all together. Once the
water level is low it's too late, you've already cooked the goose! What you
need is a water pressure gauge. Before the water level gets low, the system
has to loose some H2O molecules. For this to happen, the pressure in the
system must be vented somewhere. Normally the water system will operate at
some pressure between ambient and the pressure cap release pressure. If the
needle stays in the green between these limits, you haven't lost coolant
yet. As soon as a leak occurs, the pressure will drop to zero or peg at the
pressure cap release pressure and you can take action before the water
actually gets low. There have been articles about this in Sport Aviation
regarding care of those expensive Merlin engines in P-51s that are still
flying. Basically if the water pressure is too low or too high stop and
find out why while you can still cool the engine by boiling what little
coolant you have left. A coolant pressure change will be your first clue of
a problem.
Regards,
Bob (Lee)
______________________________
N52BL KR2 Suwanee, GA 30024
91% done only 51% to go!
Phone/Fax: 770/844-7501
mailto:bob@flyboybob.com
http://flyboybob.com
Message 14
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
A heads up from what I just read on a builder web site.
I have read several complaints about Van's gauges not reading properly. All
of the gauge problems he had with the Van's gauges and senders were due to
the senders not being grounded. In his case he had several mounted in
insulated adell clamps on the motor mount. He grounded them and all is
well. In another case the liquid Teflon kept the sender from grounding.
Hopes this helps.
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Engine vibration monitor? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
I will still be mentally developing this idea. What will really get me
going on it is finding some of the parts cheap! Will make a list and keep
my eyes open.
By the way, thanks for being here!
At 09:45 AM 7/25/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 06:35 AM 7/25/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
>><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>
>>Just kicking the idea around to see if it would work, with out costing a
>>fortune. I am always tinkering with something.
>>
>>The biggest problem I see is relating a display change to a cause. I
>>beleive the display can provide a large amount of potential information,
>>BUT, no way to decypher it. Oh well, thinking is cheap!
>
> . . . and useful. There is as much value in deducing what
> works and is helpful as it is to figure out what doesn't work
> or creates more work/problems than it fixes. In this venue
> we're free to fully exercise this activity.
>
> I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't fully massage the idea.
> Whether if you ultimately decide to do it or not to do it, I
> hope that decision is based on your understanding of the trade-offs
> as opposed to the advice of me or anyone else.
>
> I'll suggest that the AeroElectric-List is the best place
> to explore the simple-ideas upon which you will ultimately
> ground your decision.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 10676 Domeier |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:04 PM 7/25/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>David Domeier (davidd010@earthlink.net) on Friday, July 25, 2003 at 06:04:21
>
>Friday, July 25, 2003
>
>David Domeier
>
>,
>Email: davidd010@earthlink.net
>Comments/Questions: Bob,
>I have a problem.
>I have a Becker 4201 com and a Flightcom 403mc interphone system.
>The Becker audio signal through Flightcom is muted so much it is not
>readable with the engine running even with full volume.
>Now I find out that Flightcom requires 375 mW of audio input but Becker
>puts out 60-100 mW. (the unit is very small probably was originally
>designed for gliders)
>How can I boost the 60-100 mW or reduce the speaker output of 3W of Becker
>to make this system work?
I note from Flightcom's data that the 375 mw figure
is an OUTPUT value designed to drive 4 headsets.
This figure is very much in line with the Becker
power output probably scaled to drive one headset.
The VOLTAGE difference between 100 mw and 400 mw
is only 2x . . . and 6 decibels of gain. There's
usually a LOT of headroom in volume adjustment. I'm
wondering if something else is going on.
I've copied Becker and Flightcom on this. Let's see if we can
get one of their technicians to join the deliberations
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon EFIS D10 Problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Hi!
>> Did you try switching transmit and receive?
>
> More importantly, do TX / RX cross over between connectors?(TX wire on one
> end is RX on ther end)
Wired mine as per Diagram and it worked fine.
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
Europa 384
G-FIZY
+44 7808 402404
gnholland@onetel.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | Glasair smokes radios . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:48 AM 7/25/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Mike Boyles (boylesm@clear.net.nz) on Thursday, July 24, 2003 at 20:48:47
>
>Thursday, July 24, 2003
>
>Mike Boyles
>
>,
>Email: boylesm@clear.net.nz
>Comments/Questions: Hi Bob,
>
>A friend of mine has just completed a Glassair and is having trouble with
>radios and transponders failing, these failures are being blamed on poor
>quality manufacture of the avionics (Microair).
>
>I know that this Glassair is fitted with a standard automotive altenator
>with an internal regulator.
>
>I am building a (all Metal) Thorp S-18 and have dispensed with the vacum
>instruments in favour of all electric. As you recommend, I intend to fit a
>linier regulator and OV protection to protect the avionics.
Are you planning to wire per Figure Z-13?
>I suspect that the Glassair is suffering from over voltage problems and
>maybe voltage spikes caused by the composite airframe of the Glassair.
Reasonable hypothesis . . .
>Any comments you could make which regarding the voltage spikes theory and
>also guidence to relevent material on your vast website would be much
>apprediated.
You don't mention whether or not the builder is a
participant on the AeroElectric-List or if he/she
is a AeroElectric Connection reader. I suspect the
answer is "no" on both counts.
It's true that the Microair radios are particularly
vulnerable to overvoltage conditions by their
own admission in published specifications. However,
it is also true that building a stable, quiet and
failure tolerant DC power system friendly to Microair
and similar products with limited ov tolerance
is easy.
A composite airframe doesn't cause spikes (or in this
case, long duration transients needed to trash radios).
Poor system architecture, selection of components,
and in some cases, operation of the system are strong
probable causes. If he would care to share a schematic
of his power distribution system with us, perhaps we
can suggest useful changes to make his system more
stable. Do this before you start changing out components.
There is no good reason why the components you described
won't work well . . .
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
Message 19
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| Subject: | small digital voltmeter 0 -1 volt |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:22 PM 7/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tom..." <tsled@pacbell.net>
>
>Hiya,
>
>Here is a ultra small (1.38" x .88") 2 wire, self powered, ultra low drain,
>and accurate to .01V, digital volt meter from Datel and you can buy direct.
>I put one in my Helicopter wired directly to the battery showing the voltage
>all the time. It is worth the $30.00.
>http://store.datel.com/cgi-bin/datel.storefront/3f209f81000416c0271d0c9f8942
>064d/Product/View/8076525
This is fine for applications like monitoring bus voltage
where power to operate the instrument comes from the
source being watched . . . in this case, he needs an
instrument that will watch and display a voltage that
is less than required to operate the instrument and
delivers no POWER also necessary to operate the instrument.
He needs a device that gets operating power from beefier
sources while monitoring a second source with an output
rated in microwatts.
Bob . . .
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Inductive pickup |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello Robert L. Nuckolls
I am jumping in only now, have not read entire.
You have to watch out on inductive pickups, that you only get 1 spark!
I put one on a Homebuilt "Roadable" hot air balloon basket, and was using a motorcycle
engine
with electronic ignition. The electronic ignition put out allot more than 1 spark
in rapid
succession.
A traditional magneto should work fine, but if you have an electronic ignition,
best check
how many sparks it creates each stroke.
I had minor success adding a capacitor and a variable resistor in series. Not close
enough
for an airplane motor though. I think i purchased it from a place like LEAF (Leading
Edge
Airfoils) or Sky Sports. It was an ultralight instrument. It also has a built in
hobbs that
is kept with a lithium battery in memory. Was an LCD Display and went to sleep
if it saw no
pulses. Worked faultless on non electronic ignitions I fooled with.
Ron Parigoris
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Van's gauge's |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <racker@rmci.net>
This is not a problem with Van's gauges, but rather the builder not
following Van's installation instructions to ground the senders:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/Gauge_Install.pdf
Also, I had absolutely no problems with teflon preventing my senders from
grounding. It appears the pressure on the threads is sufficient that
metal-to-metal contact is reliably accomplished (heck, even the
anodization on the mounting manifold didn't cause a problem, I have zero
resistance and zero Van's gauge problems).
Rob Acker (RV-6 flying)
do not archive
> A heads up from what I just read on a builder web site.
>
> I have read several complaints about Van's gauges not reading properly.
> All of the gauge problems he had with the Van's gauges and senders were
> due to the senders not being grounded. In his case he had several
> mounted in insulated adell clamps on the motor mount. He grounded them
> and all is well. In another case the liquid Teflon kept the sender from
> grounding. Hopes this helps.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon EFIS D10 Problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
What's all the commotion about? Dynon publishes extremely clear wiring
instructions...both on their site, and in the printed materials you receive
with the EFIS D-10. They clearly identify which wire goes to which pin on
*all* of the connectors...the unit harness, the RS232 harness, the remote
compass harness, etc.
RTFM!!!
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <CozyGirrrl@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon EFIS D10 Problem
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: CozyGirrrl@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 7/25/2003 6:59:16 AM Central Daylight Time,
> mireley@msu.edu writes:
>
> > Larry Bowen wrote:
> >
> > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
<Larry@BowenAero.com>
> >
> > >
> > >From memory when I wired that harness last week, there is a send, rcv,
> > >and ground going from the PC serial port to the Dynon.
> > >
> > >-
> > >Larry Bowen
> >
> >
> > Did you try switching transmit and receive?
>
> More importantly, do TX / RX cross over between connectors?(TX wire on one
> end is RX on ther end)
> ...Chrissi
>
>
Message 23
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Sensing low coolant level
-----Original Message-----
At 09:16 AM 7/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
>
>From: "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers@FDIC.gov>
>To: "'aeroelectric-list@matronics.com'" <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Annunciator for Water Level Sensor
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 12:14:36 -0400
>
>The engine that I will be installing in my kit-built Mustang II aircraft
>is water-cooled. I have a water-level sensor that I obtained from a Mazda
>RX-7 radiator, which I want to use to tell me when the water level in the
>radiator is too low. I do not have the circuitry imbedded in the car's
>computer that interprets the signal from the sensor and turns on a light
>in the car.
>
>The sensor screws into an appropriate spot in the radiator (or a fitting
>in a water hose/line) and has a current that runs from a wire attached to
>the sensor to the isolated probe that screws into the radiator and then
>flows through the water in the radiator to a ground attached to the metal
>in the radiator that touches the water. As long is there is water at the
>level of the sensor, the current flows, but if the water drops below the
>sensor, the current stops.
>
>My question is this: What sort of circuit do I need to allow an
>annunciator light on the instrument panel to turn on when the water in the
>radiator gets too low? The current flow through the water is subject to
>some resistance (5 to 10 thousand ohms as measured by my Multimeter). I
>need something that will cause a separate circuit with a light bulb in it
>to turn on when the flow of current through the sensor stops, i.e. no
>water is touching the sensor. Any ideas?
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls@cox.net]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Sensing low coolant level
Can't answer your question without knowing more about the physics
of how the Mazda sensor operates. I THINK those were a power thermistor
that was monitored for resistance change when power was applied to
the sensor. If the resistance did change, then it was NOT submerged
in liquid, if it did not change, then water level was sufficient
to keep the sensor covered.
There are other possibilities. I did a Google search on this
topic and only found discussions on Mazda radiator leaks
and fragility of these sensors, seems it's easy to pull the
connections out of them.
One writer noted that they're only $12 part. Might drop by
a parts store and get one to bring home and see if I can
figure out how it works and what's necessary to communicate
with one of them.
Alternatively, there are other technologies and components
suited to this task that are more plug-n-play. For example,
a number of companies make products like this:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/OS-10_Series.pdf
wherein you put the sensor through the wall of the tank,
hook up 12 volts and a light bulb and you're done.
Very user friendly.
Bob . . .
The water level sensor looks like this:
It appears to be nothing more than a wire and a probe through which
electricity passes. It screws into the top of the radiator. If the
radiator has water touching the sensor probe, then the electricity will flow
through it to a ground on the radiator. If the water level is too low,
there will not be a completed circuit. My challenge is how to use this
information to activate a light/annunciator on the instrument panel when
there is no current flowing through the sensor. Is there some sort of
inexpensive relay that can be hooked up to this circuit that will activate a
separate circuit to the annunciator when the current to this sensor is
removed? If so, how do I determine the characteristics of the relay, such
as the amount of current to needed to activate it? I assume that the
current flowing through the water level sensor (when there is enough water
in the radiator)would be sufficient to activate a relay.
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RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Sensing low coolant level
-----Original Message-----
At 09:16 AM 7/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by:
From: Rogers, Bob J. BRogers@FDIC.gov
Subject: Annunciator for Water Level Sensor
The engine that I will be installing in my kit-built Mustang II aircraft
is water-cooled. I have a water-level sensor that I obtained from a Mazda
RX-7 radiator, which I want to use to tell me when the water level in the
radiator is too low. I do not have the circuitry imbedded in the car's
computer that interprets the signal from the sensor and turns on a light
in the car.
The sensor screws into an appropriate spot in the radiator (or a fitting
in a water hose/line) and has a current that runs from a wire attached to
the sensor to the isolated probe that screws into the radiator and then
flows through the water in the radiator to a ground attached to the metal
in the radiator that touches the water. As long is there is water at the
level of the sensor, the current flows, but if the water drops below the
sensor, the current stops.
My question is this: What sort of circuit do I need to allow an
annunciator light on the instrument panel to turn on when the water in the
radiator gets too low? The current flow through the water is subject to
some resistance (5 to 10 thousand ohms as measured by my Multimeter). I
need something that will cause a separate circuit with a light bulb in it
to turn on when the flow of current through the sensor stops, i.e. no
water is touching the sensor. Any ideas?
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [<A HREF"mailto:bob.nuckolls@cox.net">mailto:bob.nuckolls@cox.net]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Sensing low coolant level
Can't answer your question without knowing more about the physics
of how the Mazda sensor operates. I THINK those were a power thermistor
that was monitored for resistance change when power was applied to
the sensor. If the resistance did change, then it was NOT submerged
in liquid, if it did not change, then water level was sufficient
to keep the sensor covered.
There are other possibilities. I did a Google search on this
topic and only found discussions on Mazda radiator leaks
and fragility of these sensors, seems it's easy to pull the
connections out of them.
One writer noted that they're only $12 part. Might drop by
a parts store and get one to bring home and see if I can
figure out how it works and what's necessary to communicate
with one of them.
Alternatively, there are other technologies and components
suited to this task that are more plug-n-play. For example,
a number of companies make products like this:
<A HREF"http://216.55.140.222/temp/OS-10_Series.pdf" TARGET"_blank">http://216.55.140.222/temp/OS-10_Series.pdf
wherein you put the sensor through the wall of the tank,
hook up 12 volts and a light bulb and you're done.
Very user friendly.
Bob . . .
The water level sensor looks like this:
It appears to be nothing more than a wire and a probe through which electricity
passes. It screws into the top of the radiator. If the radiator has water touching
the sensor probe, then the electricity will flow through it to a ground
on the radiator. If the water level is too low, there will not be a completed
circuit. My challenge is how to use this information to activate a light/annunciator
on the instrument panel when there is no current flowing through the sensor.
Is there some sort of inexpensive relay that can be hooked up to this circuit
that will activate a separate circuit to the annunciator when the current
to this sensor is removed? If so, how do I determine the characteristics of
the relay, such as the amount of current to needed to activate it? I assume that
the current flowing through the water level sensor (when there is enough water
in the radiator)would be sufficient to activate a relay.
Message 24
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:06 PM 7/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "C J Heitman" <cjh@execpc.com>
>
>Mark S. wrote:
>Sounds like Digi-Key's price beats Pegasus by a wide margin.
>
><<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>
>
>Forgive me for responding to this. I try to avoid posting anything that
>sounds commercial on the list. However, I would like to point out a major
>difference between the Panasonic battery that Digi-Key sells and the battery
>that Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies sells (my wife and I own Pegasus).
>
>It's hard to imagine a tougher shock and vibration environment for a battery
>than an open wheel formula car. The fastest line through a corner is often
>over the curbing (complete with rumble strips). The suspension is so stiff
>that the tire often provides the majority of the effective spring rate. The
>Panasonic battery that Digi-Key sells has lead terminal posts. Batteries
>with lead posts are not very reliable under this pounding. It's possible
>that if every racer used very limp welding cable to connect the battery as
>recommended by Bob Nuckolls, failures would be rare, but not too many racers
>have read the AeroElectric Connection. A small formula car doesn't have an
>alternator. The battery is charged between on-track sessions. If a post
>breaks or if a connection becomes loose due to compression of the lead or
>inadequate installation torque, you DNF.
>
>The 18 Amp-Hr battery that Pegasus sells has a hard alloy terminal that is
>about 0.080 thick x 0.48 wide with a clearance hole for AN3 attachment
>hardware. I don't know what the terminal material is off the top of my head
>but is appears to be as hard as steel with a heavy zinc plating. You can
>torque the attachment hardware as you would any structural application and
>the terminal post does not deform. We've had no reports of terminal failures
>since switching to this design. While a lead terminal will probably give
>very reliable service in an airplane, the same has not been the case for our
>racing customers.
>
>If you check the AeroElectric List archives from April 2003, you will find
>mention of a broken terminal on a Panasonic battery (search for: "RG battery
>heads-up").
>
>Digi-Key is a fine company. I have purchased Panasonic batteries from them -
>you can't beat the price. But Pegasus does not sell Panasonic batteries so
>comparing the price is comparing apples to oranges. If we bought batteries
>by the container full, we could probably lower the price considerably.
>Unfortunately we don't sell as many as Digi-Key does. At Pegasus our goals
>are to sell the best product for our customer's application, provide the
>best customer service and to keep our prices competitive.
>
>Sorry about the semi-commercial message, but I felt that I had to address
>the reason for the price difference and to point out the difference in
>terminals on the two batteries in question.
Understand . . . and everything you say is true. But my question
is, how is it significant to anyone's deliberations on component
selection for building their airplane?
I could echo your concerns and then top them by recommending
that one consider only Genesis series batteries by Hawker
that feature molded-in, virtually indestructible
inserts for connection terminals. Next step up the ladder
might include a narrative on batteries we've just selected
to power a new target that gets 33g linear acceleration
and 20g vibration testing and features extremely robust
construction just for the purpose of conducing a single
3-minute flight at M2.5.
I would offer that our airplanes are really not all that
harsh an environment. After all, these are supposed to
be machines in which we expect to deposit our persons
to conduct 4 hour legs in reasonable comfort. We might
also expect to enjoy new-age stereo music in the headsets.
The key statement in your note might be "best product for our
customer's application" but the magnitude of "best" is not
quantifiable.
If one is worried about one (or several) story
about broken battery posts, then to what degree should
the design be modified to mitigate the risk? Soft cables
is one, more robust posts come in all varieties up to
and including weapons grade environments, backup battery
is yet another.
I've suggested that the best VALUE comes from building
a failure tolerant system (which, if the builder chooses,
can include broken battery posts) with the most economical
components. This is particularly true of batteries if one
subscribes to the yearly change-out philosophy as
cheap insurance against loss of battery capacity.
There's no argument contrary to your assertion of
improved performance based on configuration and materials
selection of the battery post. I hope that folks
select all components for their airplane based on
combinations of understanding of real requirements
and a consideration of market history. I saw my first
lead-post, 17 a.h. battery in 1986 when Bill was selling
the Sonnenshein gels out of the booth at OSH.
Since that time, there has been a ton of service
history gained on these and similar products.
I'm unaware of any preponderance events that
suggest the lead-post battery should be avoided.
If this is a significant concern for anyone, there are
a number of RG/SVLA batteries out there with terminal
technologies other than lead.
Bob . . .
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: coolant level detection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>The water level sensor looks like this:
>
>
>It appears to be nothing more than a wire and a probe through which
>electricity passes. It screws into the top of the radiator. If the
>radiator has water touching the sensor probe, then the electricity will
>flow through it to a ground on the radiator. If the water level is too
>low, there will not be a completed circuit. My challenge is how to use
>this information to activate a light/annunciator on the instrument panel
>when there is no current flowing through the sensor. Is there some sort of
>inexpensive relay that can be hooked up to this circuit that will activate
>a separate circuit to the annunciator when the current to this sensor is
>removed? If so, how do I determine the characteristics of the relay, such
>as the amount of current to needed to activate it? I assume that the
>current flowing through the water level sensor (when there is enough water
>in the radiator)would be sufficient to activate a relay.
Hmmm . . . hadn't considered this option. A simple
probe immersed in radiator contents might show some
characteristic of resistance to indicate presence of
fluid.
Went out to the garage and dipped a piece of brass
into the radiator with ohmmeter attached. Other
lead of ohmmeter connected to radiator tank.
. . . got an initial reading of NEGATIVE ohms
which shows that the system being measured was
acting more like a battery than a resistor.
Switching to volts display showed that the piece
of brass was running at -0.5 volts with respect
to radiator tank. This tells us that pH of the
radiator fluid combined with electro-motive
series differences between tank and piece of
brass formed a 1/2 volt battery.
The probe you have may be a plain-vanilla material
or perhaps selected to enhance the battery effects.
I guess I'll stop by a parts store and pick one
up to see.
Irrespective of whether battery or resistor
characteristics are being exploited, there will
be some kind of electronics involved in making
interface between sensor and lamp. In either
case, it will be simple.
Bob . . .
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Sensing low coolant level |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
<snip>
>. A coolant pressure change will be your first clue of
>a problem.
>
>Regards,
>
>Bob (Lee)
Good point! What say you Mr. Rogers, want to continue
an exploration of the Mazda sensor interface or is
a coolant pressure display more attractive?
Bob . . .
Message 27
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Routing cables around back of panel
Another product that I use that is extremely good is Devcon. It is
formulated for different metals. You can get it for Aluminum, steel, brass,
etc. I'm not sure that it is easily available from retail outlets as it is
an industrial product, but if you can find it, it is excellent.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B
RX-9endurance
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-Albert Einstein
> I just had a squint at the JB site, and there is this amazing review on
> their
> "creative uses" page:
>
> "
> Amazing stuff. I'll give them a shout later on -- it might be that there
> are, in fact, distributors over here.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Nev
>
> do not archive
>
>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
RE: AeroElectric-List: Routing cables around back of panel
Another product that I use that is extremely good is Devcon. It is formulated
for different metals. You can get it for Aluminum, steel, brass, etc. I'm not
sure that it is easily available from retail outlets as it is an industrial product,
but if you can find it, it is excellent.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B
RX-9endurance
C-FSTB
<A HREF"http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm" TARGET"_blank">http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
Imagination is more important than knowledge
-Albert Einstein
I just had a squint at the JB site, and there is this amazing review on their
creative uses page:
Amazing stuff. I'll give them a shout later on -- it might be that there
are, in fact, distributors over here.
Cheers.
Nev
do not archive
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Engine vibration monitor? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:34 AM 7/25/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>I will still be mentally developing this idea. What will really get me
>going on it is finding some of the parts cheap! Will make a list and keep
>my eyes open.
>
>By the way, thanks for being here!
Okay, do a google search on piezo vibration sensors like
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2547732459&category=1504
charge amplifiers
http://216.55.140.222/temp/ChargeAmp.pdf
and look through the ap notes on precision rectifiers
http://216.55.140.222/temp/LB-8.pdf
Alternatively, you can go to sensors with voltage outputs
that are a bit easier to use but maybe harder to find
with temperature ratings suited for bolting to engine.
Here's an example:
http://www.analog.com/UploadedFiles/Data_Sheets/463943887ADXL190_0.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Sensing low coolant level |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
>
> >. A coolant pressure change will be your first clue of
> >a problem.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Bob (Lee)
>
>
> Good point! What say you Mr. Rogers, want to continue
> an exploration of the Mazda sensor interface or is
> a coolant pressure display more attractive?
>
> Bob . . .
>
I recommend the coolant pressure gauge. I fly a water cooled rotary engine
in an RV-6A and wouldn't fly without my coolant pressure gauge. It not only
will let you know quickly if you have a leak - even a small one, but you
will also get use to comparing coolant temps and coolant pressure and an
adnormal comparison (even if temperature might read OK) might be your first
indication of a problem. For example if a coolant leak between your
combustion chamber and coolant system occurred, the coolant temp might still
read in the green, but your coolant pressure is likely to be quite high due
to combustion gas pressuring the coolant system. This overpressure will
likely push your coolant out your overflow relief tube if not corrected.
FWIW
Ed Anderson
RV-6A Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Engine vibration monitor? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Wow, alot more info than I expected. Again many thanks!
At 01:08 PM 7/25/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 08:34 AM 7/25/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
>><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>
>>I will still be mentally developing this idea. What will really get me
>>going on it is finding some of the parts cheap! Will make a list and keep
>>my eyes open.
>>
>>By the way, thanks for being here!
>
>
> Okay, do a google search on piezo vibration sensors like
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2547732459&category=1504
>
> charge amplifiers
>
> http://216.55.140.222/temp/ChargeAmp.pdf
>
> and look through the ap notes on precision rectifiers
>
> http://216.55.140.222/temp/LB-8.pdf
>
> Alternatively, you can go to sensors with voltage outputs
> that are a bit easier to use but maybe harder to find
> with temperature ratings suited for bolting to engine.
>
> Here's an example:
>
> http://www.analog.com/UploadedFiles/Data_Sheets/463943887ADXL190_0.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 31
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Sensing low coolant level
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls@cox.net]
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Sensing low coolant level
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
<snip>
>. A coolant pressure change will be your first clue of
>a problem.
>
>Regards,
>
>Bob (Lee)
Good point! What say you Mr. Rogers, want to continue
an exploration of the Mazda sensor interface or is
a coolant pressure display more attractive?
Bob . . .
I already have a water temp and pressure gauge, and the pressure gauge is
already plumbed into the system. Water pressure can vary a lot and still be
OK, therefore, I would like also to know when the water level is getting
low, hence my interest in how to hook up the water level sensor, which I
have already gotten. By the way, I tested the sensor with an ohmmeter by
immersing its probe into a pan of tap water. With the positive end of the
ohmmeter attached to the sensor lead and the negative end of the ohmmeter in
the water (about two inches away), I got approximately 5,000 ohms
resistance. When I touched the negative end of my meter directly to the
probe, I got virtually zero resistance. With the probe out of the water, I
got infinite resistance. I guess the level of resistance in the water
depends somewhat on the purity (high resistance)or contamination (lower
resistance) of the water. At any rate, I would appreciate any hints on how
to construct a circuit to use the Mazda water level sensor as I have
previously envisioned. Thank you for your interest and advice.
Bob Rogers
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: small digital voltmeter 0 -1 volt |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
Try this...
http://www.simpsonelectric.com/dpmind.htm
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: small digital voltmeter 0 -1 volt
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 08:22 PM 7/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tom..." <tsled@pacbell.net>
> >
> >Hiya,
> >
> >Here is a ultra small (1.38" x .88") 2 wire, self powered, ultra low
drain,
> >and accurate to .01V, digital volt meter from Datel and you can buy
direct.
> >I put one in my Helicopter wired directly to the battery showing the
voltage
> >all the time. It is worth the $30.00.
>
>http://store.datel.com/cgi-bin/datel.storefront/3f209f81000416c0271d0c9f894
2
> >064d/Product/View/8076525
>
>
> This is fine for applications like monitoring bus voltage
> where power to operate the instrument comes from the
> source being watched . . . in this case, he needs an
> instrument that will watch and display a voltage that
> is less than required to operate the instrument and
> delivers no POWER also necessary to operate the instrument.
>
> He needs a device that gets operating power from beefier
> sources while monitoring a second source with an output
> rated in microwatts.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Palm + Grand Rapids EIS |
07/25/2003 02:45:14 PM,
Serialize complete at 07/25/2003 02:45:14 PM
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob Bittner <rbittner@us.ibm.com>
Hi All.
Anyone out there with a Grand Rapids EIS and interest in using their
PalmPilot for displaying and logging the data?
I've written software for that.. graphs, big numbers, etc...very
configurable. contact me if interested. I'll be at OSH.
Bob
Message 34
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| Subject: | Dumb fuse question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame <charleyb@earthlink.net>
Bob, et.al.,
My transponder and my altitude encoder each specify 2 amp fuses. I've
run out of pins on my fuse panel. Thus, I would like to connect both the
transponder and the encoder power leads to the same connector pin on my
fuse panel.
Question: Do I use a 2 amp fuse? Or, should I use a 4 amp fuse and put
inline 2 amp fuses to each box?
Charlie
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Dumb fuse question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
Fuses exist to protect wires. They are not there to protect the device.
Put both on the circuit, use a 4 or 5 Amp fuse and as long as you use 20 or
22AWG wire you're good to go.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Brame" <charleyb@earthlink.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dumb fuse question
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame
<charleyb@earthlink.net>
>
> Bob, et.al.,
>
> My transponder and my altitude encoder each specify 2 amp fuses. I've
> run out of pins on my fuse panel. Thus, I would like to connect both the
> transponder and the encoder power leads to the same connector pin on my
> fuse panel.
>
> Question: Do I use a 2 amp fuse? Or, should I use a 4 amp fuse and put
> inline 2 amp fuses to each box?
>
> Charlie
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Dual Battery / Single Alternator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1@kc.rr.com>
I don't really see how this is ANY different than any other duel
electronic ignition system. Without a Mag you must have two batteries
to run the system. I just got off the phone with Jeff Rose, he doesn't
want any of his systems installed without a second battery for safety.
Aerosance is no different ... just more sophisticated balancing fuel and
ignition. By the way, the system will operate down to 6 volts and their
'backup' battery in the STC installation is a small Johnson Controls
battery good for several hours.
I guess I don't understand the criticism of Aerosance for trying to
bring aircraft control systems into the 21st century. But I'm sure EFIS
was criticized again 'steam gages' when it was released into the GA jet
population. Without backup electronics it would be dead too.
DWS
>> The Aerosance FADEC goes brain-dead at cranking
>> voltages on some battery combinations. They
>> recommend an auxiliary power supply in the form
>> of second battery that is not used for cranking.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Schroeder
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual Battery / Single Alternator
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder
<jschroeder@perigee.net>
Yep, tis true. Just install a larger battery on the starter, although
depending on temp and engine, the single 17AH battery may be all you
need.
John
PS: I know that the Aerosance FADEC has been criticized for this, but it
should be evaluated on its other merits and using the criteria of what
you
want out of your power plant.
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Dumb fuse question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
A few people may jump in on this one, but I'll take a stab
at it anyway.
Have you read Mr Nuckolls fine Aeroelectric Connection book?
The answer for fuse sizes is in there. There have also been
discussions about this before that can be seen in the archive.
Never the less, circuit protection, to be useful, must do two
things. The first is that its rating must be small enough so
that in the case of shorting the wire that it feeds to ground,
the protection opens the circuit before the wire overheats (and
causes further damage, fire, or other mahem).
The other thing the circuit protection must do (the obvious
one) is be large enough to carry the loads required by the
consumers on the circuit. As you realized, a single 2A fuse
may not cut it if you hang another device on it.
So, you need to consider whether the size of the wire in that
circuit is up to carrying the current required to open the
next larger sized fuse.
A couple of questions for you... Most encoders that I have
seen are powered by the transponder. I have assumed that the
power budget for the encoder can be included in the transponder.
Now that you mention it, I am less certain of this. None the
less, I am skeptical that a transponder and encoder wired together
would draw more than 1-2A together.
Another issue is fuse size. I think 3A is a common ATC fuse
size. I'll bet that you can get away with a 3A for the circuit
you are wiring. I have a Microair T2000 with an Ameriking enc
that has been working well so far with a 3A ATC fuse. The worst
case scenario is that you get some nuisance trips, at which point
you can reevaluate.
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame
> <charleyb@earthlink.net>
>
> Bob, et.al.,
>
> My transponder and my altitude encoder each specify 2 amp fuses. I've
> run out of pins on my fuse panel. Thus, I would like to connect both the
> transponder and the encoder power leads to the same connector pin on my
> fuse panel.
>
> Question: Do I use a 2 amp fuse? Or, should I use a 4 amp fuse and put
> inline 2 amp fuses to each box?
>
> Charlie
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
>
Message 38
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
Subject: Tach signals?
Hi Bob;
This current discussion of the Tiny Tach is somewhat timely for me
as I'm dealing with my own tach issues.
I have a 13B Mazda rotary in my RV-9 with an EC2 engine controller from Real
World Solutions. I'm ready for final inspection as soon as I take care of
this.
I've tried a couple of approaches. I bought a Hastings tach, which
I've currently connected to the EC2 tach output. Now this is a 12 pulse/rev
signal for a high resolution tach, like the EIS. So with the tach set for an
8 cylinder 4 stroke, it should read 3X higher than actual. My test runs show
this to be right (I think),
RWS suggested that a trigger signal from a coil trigger would work.
However this should produce 1/2 the actual signal, when set for a 4
cylinder. So I theorized that a 2 stroke tach may produce an accurate signal
so I grabbed a Bombardier tach and wired it into a coil trigger, but I found
that this didn't work at all. I'm not certain why, as the coil trigger
should give at least some signal. My new ski-doo has a digital engine
management computer, which provides the tach signal, so I'm thinking that it
may be a high resolution signal. No dice. It shows zero while connected to
the tach output or the coil trigger.
I looked at a diesel tach. It runs off a sensor that is mounted on
the alternator. The back of the gauge has an adjustment pot, to calibrate
tach to a known RPM. Just need to get an optical tach for the prop speed
then do the math. The problem with this is that the tach face is only up to
6000 rpm. As my upper limit should be approx. 6200 rpm, this would barely
work, but I'd like to find something better.
The Tiny Tach as well as the Micro 1000 was suggested and another
builder who is at the same stage has ordered one to test, but I borrowed an
inductive test tach (SunTune - an analog dial with settings for 2 or 4
stroke) and clipped it on the plug wires... and still zero. I tried all
settings on all 4 wires under various engine speeds, but still nothing. I'm
pretty darn sure that I've got good spark, 'cause the engine sure is smooth
and powerful :-). My timing light has the same type of inductive clip for
the spark plug wires and it works fine. The clip is directional (little
arrow points to the plug) and I ensured it was on correctly, but just to
check I even reversed it, but no luck. I checked the operation of the test
tach on my Jeep and it works fine. So this leads me to question whether the
Tiny Tach will work either.
In the meantime... This morning I got to thinking that all I really
need to do is divide the 12pulse/rev high resolution signal from the EC2 by
3, then a tach set for an 8 cylinder, 4 stroke should read correctly. So
after a little research, I ordered a NTE4526B programmable divide-by-"N"
4-bit binary counter. So long as I don't need to do any signal conditioning,
I should be able to solder this to a small piece of breadboard, with jumpers
on the appropriate pins and leads, and it should work great. Maybe.
Do you have any suggestions as to why the coil trigger signal fails
to work as well as the inductive pickup? What about the divide-by-"N"
counter for the high resolution signal?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B
RX-9endurance
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-Albert Einstein
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
Tach signals?
Hi Bob;
This current discussion of the Tiny Tach is somewhat timely for me as I'm dealing
with my own tach issues.
I have a 13B Mazda rotary in my RV-9 with an EC2 engine controller from Real World
Solutions. I'm ready for final inspection as soon as I take care of this.
I've tried a couple of approaches. I bought a Hastings tach, which I've currently
connected to the EC2 tach output. Now this is a 12 pulse/rev signal for a
high resolution tach, like the EIS. So with the tach set for an 8 cylinder 4 stroke,
it should read 3X higher than actual. My test runs show this to be right
(I think),
RWS suggested that a trigger signal from a coil trigger would work. However this
should produce 1/2 the actual signal, when set for a 4 cylinder. So I theorized
that a 2 stroke tach may produce an accurate signal so I grabbed a Bombardier
tach and wired it into a coil trigger, but I found that this didn't work
at all. I'm not certain why, as the coil trigger should give at least some signal.
My new ski-doo has a digital engine management computer, which provides the
tach signal, so I'm thinking that it may be a high resolution signal. No dice.
It shows zero while connected to the tach output or the coil trigger.
I looked at a diesel tach. It runs off a sensor that is mounted on the alternator.
The back of the gauge has an adjustment pot, to calibrate tach to a known
RPM. Just need to get an optical tach for the prop speed then do the math. The
problem with this is that the tach face is only up to 6000 rpm. As my upper
limit should be approx. 6200 rpm, this would barely work, but I'd like to find
something better.
The Tiny Tach as well as the Micro 1000 was suggested and another builder who
is at the same stage has ordered one to test, but I borrowed an inductive test
tach (SunTune - an analog dial with settings for 2 or 4 stroke) and clipped it
on the plug wires... and still zero. I tried all settings on all 4 wires under
various engine speeds, but still nothing. I'm pretty darn sure that I've got
good spark, 'cause the engine sure is smooth and powerful :-). My timing light
has the same type of inductive clip for the spark plug wires and it works fine.
The clip is directional (little arrow points to the plug) and I ensured it
was on correctly, but just to check I even reversed it, but no luck. I checked
the operation of the test tach on my Jeep and it works fine. So this leads
me to question whether the Tiny Tach will work either.
In the meantime... This morning I got to thinking that all I really need to do
is divide the 12pulse/rev high resolution signal from the EC2 by 3, then a tach
set for an 8 cylinder, 4 stroke should read correctly. So after a little research,
I ordered a NTE4526B programmable divide-by-N 4-bit binary counter. So
long as I don't need to do any signal conditioning, I should be able to solder
this to a small piece of breadboard, with jumpers on the appropriate pins and
leads, and it should work great. Maybe.
Do you have any suggestions as to why the coil trigger signal fails to work as
well as the inductive pickup? What about the divide-by-N counter for the high
resolution signal?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B
RX-9endurance
C-FSTB
<A HREF"http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm" TARGET"_blank">http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
Imagination is more important than knowledge
-Albert Einstein
Message 39
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RSwanson" <rswan19@comcast.net>
From aero-news.net:
"Garmin International Inc. dropped 'the bomb'
late Thursday: they have a definitive agreement to acquire UPS
Aviation Technologies, Inc. for $38 million in cash. "
Thought someone might be interested in this note.
R
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Engine vibration monitor? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
Analog Devices ADXL05 or ADXL50 from Newark Electronics..
Finn
Scott Bilinski wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>I will still be mentally developing this idea. What will really get me
>going on it is finding some of the parts cheap! Will make a list and keep
>my eyes open.
>
>By the way, thanks for being here!
>
>
>At 09:45 AM 7/25/03 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>>
>>At 06:35 AM 7/25/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
>>><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>>
>>>Just kicking the idea around to see if it would work, with out costing a
>>>fortune. I am always tinkering with something.
>>>
>>>The biggest problem I see is relating a display change to a cause. I
>>>beleive the display can provide a large amount of potential information,
>>>BUT, no way to decypher it. Oh well, thinking is cheap!
>>>
>>>
>> . . . and useful. There is as much value in deducing what
>> works and is helpful as it is to figure out what doesn't work
>> or creates more work/problems than it fixes. In this venue
>> we're free to fully exercise this activity.
>>
>> I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't fully massage the idea.
>> Whether if you ultimately decide to do it or not to do it, I
>> hope that decision is based on your understanding of the trade-offs
>> as opposed to the advice of me or anyone else.
>>
>> I'll suggest that the AeroElectric-List is the best place
>> to explore the simple-ideas upon which you will ultimately
>> ground your decision.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>Scott Bilinski
>Eng dept 305
>Phone (858) 657-2536
>Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Panel layout - request for comments |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
I've a grand total of sixty hours flying time, and here am I trying to put
together a panel that will last me for about forty years of flying! I guess
many people on this list have a great deal of flying experience, and
therefore I'd be very grateful if you would have a squint at my proposed
panel layout and make any comments.
http://etravel.org/images/panel.gif (29kB)
It's fairly normal, you might say -- an amalgam of the few types I've
flown -- and I've tried to think about it from a usability point of view, but
any views from your own experience would be most appreciated.
Many thanks.
Nev
--
Jodel D150 in progress
UK
Message 42
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| Subject: | Dual Battery / Single Alternator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:15 PM 7/25/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Schaefer"
><dschaefer1@kc.rr.com>
>
>I don't really see how this is ANY different than any other duel
>electronic ignition system. Without a Mag you must have two batteries
>to run the system. I just got off the phone with Jeff Rose, he doesn't
>want any of his systems installed without a second battery for safety.
>Aerosance is no different ... just more sophisticated balancing fuel and
>ignition. By the way, the system will operate down to 6 volts and their
>'backup' battery in the STC installation is a small Johnson Controls
>battery good for several hours.
It is "different" in that the system MUST have a separate
battery suited for cranking. Granted, one battery can be
small compared to the other, but if one wanted to take
advantage of the weight reduction and performance enhancement
of cranking with both SMALL batteries a al Fig Z-14, it
can't be done with Aerosance FADEC.
>I guess I don't understand the criticism of Aerosance for trying to
>bring aircraft control systems into the 21st century. But I'm sure EFIS
>was criticized again 'steam gages' when it was released into the GA jet
>population. Without backup electronics it would be dead too.
My understanding is that it won't work at battery voltages
typical of engine cranking . . . on the order of 8-9 volts
worst case. Where did you get the 6v figure?
If the system was minimally operational at 6v, then cranking
wouldn't be a problem.
Just so folks understand the criticism . . . I find it
mystifying that a company would spend what must have cost
$millions$ to design, fabricate, certify, manufacture and
market what is obviously a leading edge product and then
"stub their toe" on something so simple as keeping minimally
operational so as to get the engine started from the same
battery. Gee, cars have been doing this for decades.
Worse yet, because they have chosen to play in the
certified sandbox, likelihood that their product will
evolve for the better is dismally remote . . . which
puts still more pressure on the notion of getting it
all done and all right the first time out. There are
millions of cars ALREADY gone to the junkyards
with higher order technology than will ever exist
in perhaps ten thousand certified light aircraft
that will receive the Aerosance FADEC.
It's obviously not a big deal to their marketplace.
Folks who don't design electronics yet desire what the
Aerosance system offers are happily willing to
install the extra battery and the astounding wad of wire
it takes to make this system play.
The only folks who are complaining are guys like
me who are never going to buy one anyhow. So don't
loose any sleep over it.
Bob . . .
Message 43
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dawson, Bill" <Bill.Dawson@pepperdine.edu>
Is Garmin going to kill the UPS line?
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: RSwanson [mailto:rswan19@comcast.net]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: UPSAT
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RSwanson" <rswan19@comcast.net>
From aero-news.net:
"Garmin International Inc. dropped 'the bomb'
late Thursday: they have a definitive agreement to acquire UPS
Aviation Technologies, Inc. for $38 million in cash. "
Thought someone might be interested in this note.
R
Message 44
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
It will probably incorporate UPSAT's technology and kill the UPS product
line. Now maybe we'll get airways on the GNS 430/530.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Dawson, Bill
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: UPSAT
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dawson, Bill"
<Bill.Dawson@pepperdine.edu>
Is Garmin going to kill the UPS line?
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: RSwanson [mailto:rswan19@comcast.net]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: UPSAT
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RSwanson"
<rswan19@comcast.net>
From aero-news.net:
"Garmin International Inc. dropped 'the bomb'
late Thursday: they have a definitive agreement to acquire UPS
Aviation Technologies, Inc. for $38 million in cash. "
Thought someone might be interested in this note.
R
Message 45
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 7/25/03 5:47:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
Bruce@glasair.org writes:
> It will probably incorporate UPSAT's technology and kill the UPS product
> line. Now maybe we'll get airways on the GNS 430/530.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
According to the press release, they will maintain the UPS group as a
separate entity.
Even if that does happen, competition is gone. It is rare day when
eliminating competition holds any advantage for we consumers.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 46
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| Subject: | Breakers & disable switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
I have just about figured out the wiring diagram for my RV-8A, and I had a
couple of questions. I will be using a version of Bob's Z-11 generic light
aircraft electrical system with fuse blocks and an E-bus.
First question: Blue Mountain Avionics wants me to turn off their EFIS/1
system to start, or have it on a separate electrical system. If I put an
on-off switch for the EFIS system, might that just as well be a breaker
switch, and if so, should it come off the E-bus, or just off the battery
with a fusible link?
Lightspeed also wants a pullable breaker for their ignition (right side only
on my engine). I haven't yet figured out why.
Second question, somewhat related to the first: I am considering adding
disable switches to the electric trim, flaps, autopilot and back seater's
flap & trim switches. Again, same question as above: If I add a switch,
would it be better for that to be a breaker switch or a pullable breaker and
forget the fuse, or in addition to the fuse? The switch or the breaker is
the same parts count.
One last question for now, relating to Faston terminals. When I take the
screw and nut off one of the terminals of the flap switch that came from
Van's, it looks just like the Faston terminal on the Carling switches I got
from B&C, except the hole in it is a little bigger. Can I just throw away
the screw and nut and use a Faston? Did everybody but me know that?
Thanks for your comments.
Terry
RV-8A finish
Seattle
Message 47
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
Subject: Tach Signals?
I'm reposting this as it came through a little strange last time?
Hi Bob;
This current discussion of the Tiny Tach is somewhat timely for me
as I'm dealing with my own tach issues.
I have a 13B Mazda rotary in my RV-9 with an EC2 engine controller from Real
World Solutions. I'm ready for final inspection as soon as I take care of
this.
I've tried a couple of approaches. I bought a Hastings tach, which
I've currently connected to the EC2 tach output. Now this is a 12 pulse/rev
signal for a high resolution tach, like the EIS. So with the tach set for an
8 cylinder 4 stroke, it should read 3X higher than actual. My test runs show
this to be right (I think),
RWS suggested that a trigger signal from a coil trigger would work.
However this should produce 1/2 the actual signal, when set for a 4
cylinder. So I theorized that a 2 stroke tach may produce an accurate signal
so I grabbed a Bombardier tach and wired it into a coil trigger, but I found
that this didn't work at all. I'm not certain why, as the coil trigger
should give at least some signal. My new ski-doo has a digital engine
management computer, which provides the tach signal, so I'm thinking that it
may be a high resolution signal. No dice. It shows zero while connected to
the tach output or the coil trigger.
I looked at a diesel tach. It runs off a sensor that is mounted on
the alternator. The back of the gauge has an adjustment pot, to calibrate
tach to a known RPM. Just need to get an optical tach for the prop speed
then do the math. The problem with this is that the tach face is only up to
6000 rpm. As my upper limit should be approx. 6200 rpm, this would barely
work, but I'd like to find something better.
The Tiny Tach as well as the Micro 1000 was suggested and another
builder who is at the same stage has ordered one to test, but I borrowed an
inductive test tach (SunTune - an analog dial with settings for 2 or 4
stroke) and clipped it on the plug wires... and still zero. I tried all
settings on all 4 wires under various engine speeds, but still nothing. I'm
pretty darn sure that I've got good spark, 'cause the engine sure is smooth
and powerful :-). My timing light has the same type of inductive clip for
the spark plug wires and it works fine. The clip is directional (little
arrow points to the plug) and I ensured it was on correctly, but just to
check I even reversed it, but no luck. I checked the operation of the test
tach on my Jeep and it works fine. So this leads me to question whether the
Tiny Tach will work either.
In the meantime... This morning I got to thinking that all I really
need to do is divide the 12pulse/rev high resolution signal from the EC2 by
3, then a tach set for an 8 cylinder, 4 stroke should read correctly. So
after a little research, I ordered a NTE4526B programmable divide-by-"N"
4-bit binary counter. So long as I don't need to do any signal conditioning,
I should be able to solder this to a small piece of breadboard, with jumpers
on the appropriate pins and leads, and it should work great. Maybe.
Do you have any suggestions as to why the coil trigger signal fails
to work as well as the inductive pickup? What about the divide-by-"N"
counter for the high resolution signal?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B
RX-9endurance
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-Albert Einstein
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
Tach Signals?
I'm reposting this as it came through a little strange last time?
Hi Bob;
This current discussion of the Tiny Tach is somewhat timely for me
as I'm dealing with my own tach issues.
I have a 13B Mazda rotary in my RV-9 with an EC2 engine controller from Real
World Solutions. I'm ready for final inspection as soon as I take care of
this.
I've tried a couple of approaches. I bought a Hastings tach, which
I've currently connected to the EC2 tach output. Now this is a 12 pulse/rev
signal for a high resolution tach, like the EIS. So with the tach set for an
8 cylinder 4 stroke, it should read 3X higher than actual. My test runs show
this to be right (I think),
RWS suggested that a trigger signal from a coil trigger would work.
However this should produce 1/2 the actual signal, when set for a 4
cylinder. So I theorized that a 2 stroke tach may produce an accurate signal
so I grabbed a Bombardier tach and wired it into a coil trigger, but I found
that this didn't work at all. I'm not certain why, as the coil trigger
should give at least some signal. My new ski-doo has a digital engine
management computer, which provides the tach signal, so I'm thinking that it
may be a high resolution signal. No dice. It shows zero while connected to
the tach output or the coil trigger.
I looked at a diesel tach. It runs off a sensor that is mounted on
the alternator. The back of the gauge has an adjustment pot, to calibrate
tach to a known RPM. Just need to get an optical tach for the prop speed
then do the math. The problem with this is that the tach face is only up to
6000 rpm. As my upper limit should be approx. 6200 rpm, this would barely
work, but I'd like to find something better.
The Tiny Tach as well as the Micro 1000 was suggested and another
builder who is at the same stage has ordered one to test, but I borrowed an
inductive test tach (SunTune - an analog dial with settings for 2 or 4
stroke) and clipped it on the plug wires... and still zero. I tried all
settings on all 4 wires under various engine speeds, but still nothing. I'm
pretty darn sure that I've got good spark, 'cause the engine sure is smooth
and powerful :-). My timing light has the same type of inductive clip for
the spark plug wires and it works fine. The clip is directional (little
arrow points to the plug) and I ensured it was on correctly, but just to
check I even reversed it, but no luck. I checked the operation of the test
tach on my Jeep and it works fine. So this leads me to question whether the
Tiny Tach will work either.
In the meantime... This morning I got to thinking that all I really
need to do is divide the 12pulse/rev high resolution signal from the EC2 by
3, then a tach set for an 8 cylinder, 4 stroke should read correctly. So
after a little research, I ordered a NTE4526B programmable divide-by-N
4-bit binary counter. So long as I don't need to do any signal conditioning,
I should be able to solder this to a small piece of breadboard, with jumpers
on the appropriate pins and leads, and it should work great. Maybe.
Do you have any suggestions as to why the coil trigger signal fails
to work as well as the inductive pickup? What about the divide-by-N
counter for the high resolution signal?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B
RX-9endurance
C-FSTB
<A HREF"http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm" TARGET"_blank">http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
Imagination is more important than knowledge
-Albert Einstein
Message 48
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RSwanson" <rswan19@comcast.net>
You need to quit posting in HTML!!
----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
>
> From: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim@mail.canfor.ca>
> To: "'aeroelectric-list@matronics.com'" <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Tach Signals?
> Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 16:15:01 -0700
>
> I'm reposting this as it came through a little strange last time?
>
> Hi Bob;
> This current discussion of the Tiny Tach is somewhat timely for
me
> as I'm dealing with my own tach issues.
>
> I have a 13B Mazda rotary in my RV-9 with an EC2 engine controller from
Real
> World Solutions. I'm ready for final inspection as soon as I take care of
> this.
> I've tried a couple of approaches. I bought a Hastings tach,
which
> I've currently connected to the EC2 tach output. Now this is a 12
pulse/rev
> signal for a high resolution tach, like the EIS. So with the tach set for
an
> 8 cylinder 4 stroke, it should read 3X higher than actual. My test runs
show
> this to be right (I think),
> RWS suggested that a trigger signal from a coil trigger would
work.
> However this should produce 1/2 the actual signal, when set for a 4
> cylinder. So I theorized that a 2 stroke tach may produce an accurate
signal
> so I grabbed a Bombardier tach and wired it into a coil trigger, but I
found
> that this didn't work at all. I'm not certain why, as the coil trigger
> should give at least some signal. My new ski-doo has a digital engine
> management computer, which provides the tach signal, so I'm thinking that
it
> may be a high resolution signal. No dice. It shows zero while connected
to
> the tach output or the coil trigger.
> I looked at a diesel tach. It runs off a sensor that is mounted
on
> the alternator. The back of the gauge has an adjustment pot, to calibrate
> tach to a known RPM. Just need to get an optical tach for the prop speed
> then do the math. The problem with this is that the tach face is only up
to
> 6000 rpm. As my upper limit should be approx. 6200 rpm, this would barely
> work, but I'd like to find something better.
> The Tiny Tach as well as the Micro 1000 was suggested and another
> builder who is at the same stage has ordered one to test, but I borrowed
an
> inductive test tach (SunTune - an analog dial with settings for 2 or 4
> stroke) and clipped it on the plug wires... and still zero. I tried all
> settings on all 4 wires under various engine speeds, but still nothing.
I'm
> pretty darn sure that I've got good spark, 'cause the engine sure is
smooth
> and powerful :-). My timing light has the same type of inductive clip for
> the spark plug wires and it works fine. The clip is directional (little
> arrow points to the plug) and I ensured it was on correctly, but just to
> check I even reversed it, but no luck. I checked the operation of the
test
> tach on my Jeep and it works fine. So this leads me to question whether
the
> Tiny Tach will work either.
> In the meantime... This morning I got to thinking that all I
really
> need to do is divide the 12pulse/rev high resolution signal from the EC2
by
> 3, then a tach set for an 8 cylinder, 4 stroke should read correctly. So
> after a little research, I ordered a NTE4526B programmable divide-by-"N"
> 4-bit binary counter. So long as I don't need to do any signal
conditioning,
> I should be able to solder this to a small piece of breadboard, with
jumpers
> on the appropriate pins and leads, and it should work great. Maybe.
>
> Do you have any suggestions as to why the coil trigger signal
fails
> to work as well as the inductive pickup? What about the divide-by-"N"
> counter for the high resolution signal?
> Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>
> S. Todd Bartrim
> Turbo 13B
> RX-9endurance
> C-FSTB
> http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
>
> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"
> -Albert Einstein
>
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
>
>
> <META NAME"Generator" CONTENT"MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12">
> Tach Signals?
>
>
> I'm reposting this as it came through a little strange last time?
>
>
> Hi Bob;
>
> This current discussion of the Tiny Tach is somewhat timely for me
>
> as I'm dealing with my own tach issues.
>
>
> I have a 13B Mazda rotary in my RV-9 with an EC2 engine controller from
Real
>
> World Solutions. I'm ready for final inspection as soon as I take care of
>
> this.
>
> I've tried a couple of approaches. I bought a Hastings tach, which
>
> I've currently connected to the EC2 tach output. Now this is a 12
pulse/rev
>
> signal for a high resolution tach, like the EIS. So with the tach set for
an
>
> 8 cylinder 4 stroke, it should read 3X higher than actual. My test runs
show
>
> this to be right (I think),
>
> RWS suggested that a trigger signal from a coil trigger would work.
>
> However this should produce 1/2 the actual signal, when set for a 4
>
> cylinder. So I theorized that a 2 stroke tach may produce an accurate
signal
>
> so I grabbed a Bombardier tach and wired it into a coil trigger, but I
found
>
> that this didn't work at all. I'm not certain why, as the coil trigger
>
> should give at least some signal. My new ski-doo has a digital engine
>
> management computer, which provides the tach signal, so I'm thinking that
it
>
> may be a high resolution signal. No dice. It shows zero while connected
to
>
> the tach output or the coil trigger.
>
> I looked at a diesel tach. It runs off a sensor that is mounted on
>
> the alternator. The back of the gauge has an adjustment pot, to calibrate
>
> tach to a known RPM. Just need to get an optical tach for the prop speed
>
> then do the math. The problem with this is that the tach face is only up
to
>
> 6000 rpm. As my upper limit should be approx. 6200 rpm, this would barely
>
> work, but I'd like to find something better.
>
> The Tiny Tach as well as the Micro 1000 was suggested and another
>
> builder who is at the same stage has ordered one to test, but I borrowed
an
>
> inductive test tach (SunTune - an analog dial with settings for 2 or 4
>
> stroke) and clipped it on the plug wires... and still zero. I tried all
>
> settings on all 4 wires under various engine speeds, but still nothing.
I'm
>
> pretty darn sure that I've got good spark, 'cause the engine sure is
smooth
>
> and powerful :-). My timing light has the same type of inductive clip for
>
> the spark plug wires and it works fine. The clip is directional (little
>
> arrow points to the plug) and I ensured it was on correctly, but just to
>
> check I even reversed it, but no luck. I checked the operation of the
test
>
> tach on my Jeep and it works fine. So this leads me to question whether
the
>
> Tiny Tach will work either.
>
> In the meantime... This morning I got to thinking that all I really
>
> need to do is divide the 12pulse/rev high resolution signal from the EC2
by
>
> 3, then a tach set for an 8 cylinder, 4 stroke should read correctly. So
>
> after a little research, I ordered a NTE4526B programmable divide-by-N
>
> 4-bit binary counter. So long as I don't need to do any signal
conditioning,
>
> I should be able to solder this to a small piece of breadboard, with
jumpers
>
> on the appropriate pins and leads, and it should work great. Maybe.
>
>
> Do you have any suggestions as to why the coil trigger signal fails
>
> to work as well as the inductive pickup? What about the divide-by-N
>
> counter for the high resolution signal?
>
> Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
> S. Todd Bartrim
>
> Turbo 13B
>
> RX-9endurance
>
> C-FSTB
>
> <A HREF"http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm"
TARGET"_blank">http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
>
>
> Imagination is more important than knowledge
>
> -Albert Einstein
>
>
Message 49
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
A couple of cautions about these tachs:
I tried the same or a very similar product several years ago & noticed 2
things. I couldn't get it to work on the shielded plug leads on an a/c
engine, and the update time (listed on the Tiny Tach website) is 2.5
seconds. The 1st is no big deal; either it works or it doesn't in your
particular application. The other is a major operational pain. Since it
updates so infrequently, I found that trying to set a desired rpm caused
quite a bit of 'PIO' with the throttle in the other application I tried,
my 1950's era Massey Ferguson gas burner tractor.
FWIW,
Charlie
Message 50
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "C J Heitman" <cjh@execpc.com>
Robert L. Nuckolls wrote:
Understand . . . and everything you say is true. But my question
is, how is it significant to anyone's deliberations on component
selection for building their airplane?
Bob,
I think you may have missed my point. I have no problem with Panasonic
batteries in airplanes. I only wanted to point out the reason for the price
difference.
Chris Heitman
RV-9A
http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
---
Message 51
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|
| Subject: | Re: quit posting in HTML |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
... and you could trim the posting you quoted, not to mention using the famous
>>>> do not archive <<<<
--- RSwanson <rswan19@comcast.net> wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted
by: "RSwanson"
<rswan19@comcast.net>
>
> You need to quit posting in HTML!!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
> >
> > From: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim@mail.canfor.ca>
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: quit posting in HTML |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RSwanson" <rswan19@comcast.net>
That's an interesting FIRST post.
R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos Sa" <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Message 53
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| Subject: | Dual Battery / Single Alternator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:15 PM 7/25/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Schaefer"
><dschaefer1@kc.rr.com>
>
>I don't really see how this is ANY different than any other duel
>electronic ignition system. Without a Mag you must have two batteries
>to run the system. I just got off the phone with Jeff Rose, he doesn't
>want any of his systems installed without a second battery for safety.
>Aerosance is no different ... just more sophisticated balancing fuel and
>ignition. By the way, the system will operate down to 6 volts and their
>'backup' battery in the STC installation is a small Johnson Controls
>battery good for several hours.
It is "different" in that the system MUST have a separate
battery suited for cranking. Granted, one battery can be
small compared to the other, but if one wanted to take
advantage of the weight reduction and performance enhancement
of cranking with two SMALL batteries a al Fig Z-14, it
can't be done with Aerosance FADEC.
>I guess I don't understand the criticism of Aerosance for trying to
>bring aircraft control systems into the 21st century. But I'm sure EFIS
>was criticized again 'steam gages' when it was released into the GA jet
>population. Without backup electronics it would be dead too.
My understanding is that it won't work at battery voltages
typical of engine cranking . . . on the order of 8-9 volts
worst case. Where did you get the 6v figure?
If the system was minimally operational at 6v, then cranking
wouldn't be a problem.
Just so folks understand the criticism . . . I find it
mystifying that a company would spend what must have cost
$millions$ to design, fabricate, certify, manufacture and
market what is obviously a leading edge product and then
"stub their toe" on something so simple as keeping minimally
operational so as to get the engine started from the same
battery. Gee, cars have been doing this for decades.
Worse yet, because they have chosen to play in the
certified sandbox, likelihood that their product will
evolve for the better is dismally remote . . . which
puts still more pressure on the notion of getting it
all done and all right the first time out. There are
millions of cars ALREADY gone to the junkyards
with higher order technology than will ever exist
in perhaps ten thousand certified light aircraft
that will receive the Aerosance FADEC.
It's obviously not a big deal to their marketplace.
Folks who don't design electronics yet desire what the
Aerosance system offers are happily willing to
install the extra battery and the astounding wad of wire
it takes to make this system play.
The only folks who are complaining are guys like
me who are never going to buy one anyhow. So don't
loose any sleep over it.
Bob . . .
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: Panel layout - request for comments |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tony Babb" <tonybabb@alejandra.net>
Nev,
Looks like the Jodel D150 is a side by side configuration. The comments
below assume this. I'm no expert and have not even designed yet alone built
the panel on my Velocity so the comments below are based on my few hundred
hours in various rented planes and lots of dreaming so take them for what
they're worth.
I notice you have the standard 6-pack of primary flight instruments. Are you
considering using vacuum gyro and A/H instruments? If so you may want to
consider a vacuum gauge. Have you thought about an all, or mostly, glass
panel? Perhaps the Dynon D10 could replace your 6-pack, or maybe the Blue
Mountain EFIS/Lite?. I think I would put the annunciator panel a little more
centrally to the pilots field of vision. You show a position for a future
tach but it looks like you already have a tach to the right of the VSI. Were
you thinking you might move it and put a second VOR head there in the
future?
Sorry I don't have any good answers for you, I'm still puzzling over my
options too.
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Panel layout - request for comments
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
<nkilford@etravel.org>
>
> I've a grand total of sixty hours flying time, and here am I trying to put
> together a panel that will last me for about forty years of flying! I
guess
> many people on this list have a great deal of flying experience, and
> therefore I'd be very grateful if you would have a squint at my proposed
> panel layout and make any comments.
>
> http://etravel.org/images/panel.gif (29kB)
>
> It's fairly normal, you might say -- an amalgam of the few types I've
> flown -- and I've tried to think about it from a usability point of view,
but
> any views from your own experience would be most appreciated.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Nev
>
> --
> Jodel D150 in progress
> UK
>
>
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