Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:14 AM - GPS antenna performance (test results) (Neville Kilford)
2. 04:30 AM - Gyros (Steve Glasgow)
3. 04:35 AM - Re: Breakers & disable switches (Neville Kilford)
4. 04:47 AM - Re: Panel layout - request for comments (Neville Kilford)
5. 05:34 AM - Re: Panel layout - request for comments (Gerry Holland)
6. 06:55 AM - Re: GPS antenna performance (test results) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:24 AM - Re: Gyros (Bruce Gray)
8. 02:21 PM - Re: batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 02:36 PM - Re: GPS antenna performance (test results) (James E. Clark)
10. 05:01 PM - LED landing lights (Eric M. Jones)
11. 07:45 PM - Re: GPS antenna performance (test results) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 09:58 PM - Over Voltage protection, figure 6.2 (mailbox bob at mail.flyboybob.com)
13. 11:23 PM - Sigtronics SPA-400 interface with microair radio (Ian Scott)
14. 11:24 PM - Miniflow L Shadin (Ian Scott)
Message 1
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| Subject: | GPS antenna performance (test results) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
I've seen a few questions about how GPS antenna performance is affected
inside a structure, so I thought I'd do some experiments and see just how it
performs.
I took a Mastercom GPS151-3 external GPS antenna, and hooked it up to a
Garmin GPS III Pilot. The GPS has signal strength meters for each satellite
that are quite sensitive. Certainly it's easy to spot a change in signal
strength within a percent or two.
First I stood in the field, holding the GPS antenna up in the air, and noted
the signal strengths. It's the first time I've ever used an external
antenna, and I was stunned at the reception!! Eight or so satellites at
strengths up to 100%!! A far cry from using the thing inside a metal
plane...
Anyway, then I got a small plywood box. It's made from 5mm gaboon (mahogany)
ply with sitka spruce corners. I fitted the aerial inside the box and held
up in the air again. No discernible change in reception. This pleased me no
end, because it means I can feel quite happy about putting the antenna inside
the Jodel.
For the fibreglass test, I took the bottom cowling and held the aerial up
inside that while holding it all up in the air. Whilst the cowling wasn't
completely enclosing, it was domed such that only signals coming up from the
ground could reach the antenna. The horizon and sky were not visible to the
antenna, except through the cowling fibreglass. Again, there was no
discernible change in reception on the GPS.
Finally, I made a small aluminium box, from 2mm commercial grade aluminium,
put the aerial inside and held that up in the air. No reception whatsoever!!
Although, I suppose, it's obvious really, I had rather thought that *some*
signal would get through, but it didn't.
Anyway, that's enough for now. I know it's not the most scientific
experiment, and that I can't quote signal strengths or anything, so take from
it what you will. Hope it helps you guys when deciding where to put your GPS
antenna.
Cheers.
Nev
--
Jodel D150 in progress
UK
Message 2
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Does anyone have any experience with Falcon AH and DG. I understand they
are made in China and are clones of the RC Allen gyros. They are guaranteed
for 1 year but not TSO'd.
Any INFO would be greatly appreciated.
Steve Glasgow
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Breakers & disable switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
Terry,
You've done it now! If Bob sees a note saying that another manufacturer
wants to switch off equipment during cranking, there will be trouble
The same thing happened with the EI engine monitor. There was a dialogue
between Bob and EI, in which he asked them for justification for their
similar request. They couldn't say why except that they thought it might be
damaging. Bob asked them for some evidence, but to no avail.
Anyway, like you, I decided to go for a single switch, rather than have an
avionics bus, a regular ATC fuse, and have run it off the main bus. Your
arrangement might be different if it's going to be your primary flight
instrumentation.
Cheers.
Nev
--
Jodel D150 in progress
UK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Breakers & disable switches
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson"
<terry@tcwatson.com>
>
> I have just about figured out the wiring diagram for my RV-8A, and I had a
> couple of questions. I will be using a version of Bob's Z-11 generic light
> aircraft electrical system with fuse blocks and an E-bus.
>
> First question: Blue Mountain Avionics wants me to turn off their EFIS/1
> system to start, or have it on a separate electrical system. If I put an
> on-off switch for the EFIS system, might that just as well be a breaker
> switch, and if so, should it come off the E-bus, or just off the battery
> with a fusible link?
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Panel layout - request for comments |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
Tony,
Thanks for your note.
You're right about the two-seat side-by-side config. I should have said that
in my note!!
Currently, I am going for vacuum instruments. If I go with the EI UBG-16, it
will monitor vacuum depth. Funny you should ask about the Dynon system --
Gerry Holland (also on this list) mentioned that he's really pleased with
his, and it seems quite economical too. This might seem like a bizarre
objection, but I can't seem to come up with a nice-looking panel replacing
"normal" instruments with the Dynon, even though it's really tempting to go
for it.
> I think I would put the annunciator panel a little more centrally to the
pilots field of vision.
This is a good point. Originally I had it planned for a long row of eight
lights along the top of the panel. I might still go for that, but cutting
such a bit slot might weaken the panel somewhat, as it's quite thin matl with
a folded stiffener along the top.
> You show a position for a future tach but it looks like you already have a
tach to
> the right of the VSI. Were you thinking you might move it and put a second
> VOR head there in the future?
Spot on! Exactly my thoughts. I've seen the NARCO integrated VOR radio and
indicator, which seems like a good idea for those of us with limited panel
space. I figured I could move the tacho in the future if I need to.
Cheers.
Nev
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Babb" <tonybabb@alejandra.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Panel layout - request for comments
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tony Babb"
<tonybabb@alejandra.net>
>
> Nev,
>
> Looks like the Jodel D150 is a side by side configuration. The comments
> below assume this. I'm no expert and have not even designed yet alone built
> the panel on my Velocity so the comments below are based on my few hundred
> hours in various rented planes and lots of dreaming so take them for what
> they're worth.
>
> I notice you have the standard 6-pack of primary flight instruments. Are
you
> considering using vacuum gyro and A/H instruments? If so you may want to
> consider a vacuum gauge. Have you thought about an all, or mostly, glass
> panel? Perhaps the Dynon D10 could replace your 6-pack, or maybe the Blue
> Mountain EFIS/Lite?. I think I would put the annunciator panel a little
more
> centrally to the pilots field of vision. You show a position for a future
> tach but it looks like you already have a tach to the right of the VSI.
Were
> you thinking you might move it and put a second VOR head there in the
> future?
>
> Sorry I don't have any good answers for you, I'm still puzzling over my
> options too.
>
> Tony
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Panel layout - request for comments
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
> <nkilford@etravel.org>
> >
> > I've a grand total of sixty hours flying time, and here am I trying to
put
> > together a panel that will last me for about forty years of flying! I
> guess
> > many people on this list have a great deal of flying experience, and
> > therefore I'd be very grateful if you would have a squint at my proposed
> > panel layout and make any comments.
> >
> > http://etravel.org/images/panel.gif (29kB)
> >
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Panel layout - request for comments |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Nev Hi!
>Funny you should ask about the Dynon system --
> Gerry Holland (also on this list) mentioned that he's really pleased with
> his, and it seems quite economical too. This might seem like a bizarre
> objection, but I can't seem to come up with a nice-looking panel replacing
> "normal" instruments with the Dynon, even though it's really tempting to go
> for it.
Jodel pilots have to be bizarre.... It's a French Aeroplane!!!
On a more serious note. It may look better if you 'flush' mount the Dynon
albeit you'll need another 2 cm deeper into rear of panel. I think the
secret when combining EFIS with conventional is 'spacing'.
Another option is to move the conventional Instruments to P2 side for
emergency and go with EFIS as VFR primary display.
Note: In UK we are only allowed to operate daylight VFR.
The Dynon is excellent value for money.
Regards
Gerry
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: GPS antenna performance (test results) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:14 PM 7/26/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
><nkilford@etravel.org>
>
>I've seen a few questions about how GPS antenna performance is affected
>inside a structure, so I thought I'd do some experiments and see just how it
>performs.
>
>I took a Mastercom GPS151-3 external GPS antenna, and hooked it up to a
>Garmin GPS III Pilot. The GPS has signal strength meters for each satellite
>that are quite sensitive. Certainly it's easy to spot a change in signal
>strength within a percent or two.
>
>First I stood in the field, holding the GPS antenna up in the air, and noted
>the signal strengths. It's the first time I've ever used an external
>antenna, and I was stunned at the reception!! Eight or so satellites at
>strengths up to 100%!! A far cry from using the thing inside a metal
>plane...
>
>Anyway, then I got a small plywood box. It's made from 5mm gaboon (mahogany)
>ply with sitka spruce corners. I fitted the aerial inside the box and held
>up in the air again. No discernible change in reception. This pleased me no
>end, because it means I can feel quite happy about putting the antenna inside
>the Jodel.
>
>For the fibreglass test, I took the bottom cowling and held the aerial up
>inside that while holding it all up in the air. Whilst the cowling wasn't
>completely enclosing, it was domed such that only signals coming up from the
>ground could reach the antenna. The horizon and sky were not visible to the
>antenna, except through the cowling fibreglass. Again, there was no
>discernible change in reception on the GPS.
>
>Finally, I made a small aluminium box, from 2mm commercial grade aluminium,
>put the aerial inside and held that up in the air. No reception whatsoever!!
>Although, I suppose, it's obvious really, I had rather thought that *some*
>signal would get through, but it didn't.
>
>Anyway, that's enough for now. I know it's not the most scientific
>experiment, and that I can't quote signal strengths or anything, so take from
>it what you will. Hope it helps you guys when deciding where to put your GPS
>antenna.
>
>Cheers.
>
>Nev
Good for you sir! There is no act that generates more valuable
information than the repeatable experiment. Thank you for taking
the time to deduce the question, design the experiment, conduct
the experiment and post the results. Anyone should be able
to repeat your actions and either confirm or contest the results.
Dialog between multiple experimenters is how sound principals are
sifted out of informational noise and chaos in which we are immersed.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
Poor quality, poor service, not worth the money. Buy American!
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Glasgow
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Gyros
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Glasgow"
<willfly@carolina.rr.com>
Does anyone have any experience with Falcon AH and DG. I understand
they
are made in China and are clones of the RC Allen gyros. They are
guaranteed
for 1 year but not TSO'd.
Any INFO would be greatly appreciated.
Steve Glasgow
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:30 PM 7/25/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "C J Heitman" <cjh@execpc.com>
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls wrote:
>
> Understand . . . and everything you say is true. But my question
> is, how is it significant to anyone's deliberations on component
> selection for building their airplane?
>
>Bob,
>
>I think you may have missed my point. I have no problem with Panasonic
>batteries in airplanes. I only wanted to point out the reason for the price
>difference.
Okay, I missed that and it showed in my posting. I'm
pleased to hear that and apologize for any discomfort
I may have caused you.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | GPS antenna performance (test results) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Performed a smaller but similar test before putting our GPS antenna under
the cowl.
99's on signal strength BEFORE putting cowl over antenna.
99's on signal strength AFTER putting cowl over antenna.
Don't remember if there was a change in DOP (dilution of precision <I
think>)
Figured it might work.
It does.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
> L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 9:54 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GPS antenna performance (test results)
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls,
> III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 12:14 PM 7/26/2003 +0100, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
> ><nkilford@etravel.org>
> >
> >I've seen a few questions about how GPS antenna performance is affected
> >inside a structure, so I thought I'd do some experiments and see
> just how it
> >performs.
> >
> >I took a Mastercom GPS151-3 external GPS antenna, and hooked it up to a
> >Garmin GPS III Pilot. The GPS has signal strength meters for
> each satellite
> >that are quite sensitive. Certainly it's easy to spot a change in signal
> >strength within a percent or two.
> >
> >First I stood in the field, holding the GPS antenna up in the
> air, and noted
> >the signal strengths. It's the first time I've ever used an external
> >antenna, and I was stunned at the reception!! Eight or so satellites at
> >strengths up to 100%!! A far cry from using the thing inside a metal
> >plane...
> >
> >Anyway, then I got a small plywood box. It's made from 5mm
> gaboon (mahogany)
> >ply with sitka spruce corners. I fitted the aerial inside the
> box and held
> >up in the air again. No discernible change in reception. This
> pleased me no
> >end, because it means I can feel quite happy about putting the
> antenna inside
> >the Jodel.
> >
> >For the fibreglass test, I took the bottom cowling and held the aerial up
> >inside that while holding it all up in the air. Whilst the
> cowling wasn't
> >completely enclosing, it was domed such that only signals coming
> up from the
> >ground could reach the antenna. The horizon and sky were not
> visible to the
> >antenna, except through the cowling fibreglass. Again, there was no
> >discernible change in reception on the GPS.
> >
> >Finally, I made a small aluminium box, from 2mm commercial grade
> aluminium,
> >put the aerial inside and held that up in the air. No reception
> whatsoever!!
> >Although, I suppose, it's obvious really, I had rather thought
> that *some*
> >signal would get through, but it didn't.
> >
> >Anyway, that's enough for now. I know it's not the most scientific
> >experiment, and that I can't quote signal strengths or anything,
> so take from
> >it what you will. Hope it helps you guys when deciding where to
> put your GPS
> >antenna.
> >
> >Cheers.
> >
> >Nev
>
> Good for you sir! There is no act that generates more valuable
> information than the repeatable experiment. Thank you for taking
> the time to deduce the question, design the experiment, conduct
> the experiment and post the results. Anyone should be able
> to repeat your actions and either confirm or contest the results.
> Dialog between multiple experimenters is how sound principals are
> sifted out of informational noise and chaos in which we are immersed.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | LED landing lights |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
"So for Christmas 2010 or before, your LED landing light will be ready to
attach to your airplane." I said.
Foolish me. The future is coming even faster than I believed possible.
15000 millicandela white LEDs with a 15 degree beam are available for (much)
less than $0.20 each! So that's 1000 pcs for way under $200. To avoid all
the beam-candlepower nonsense, we observe that the luminous efficiency is
equivalent to standard halogens (about 35 lumens/watt) so for this
comparison watts are watts.
Calculate 1000 leds X .030 A X 3 V = 90 Watts. "Ay, carumba!"
Now you might think that an LED landing light just plugs into the old
socket. And it could do that. But imagine that you just distribute the 1000
leds all over the leading edges of your airship. Now wouldn't that be a
sight on short final! Also 1000 leds could be put onto a circuit board of 49
sq inches (7" X 7").
You could even just use the 1000 leds for landing and 400 leds for taxi. The
possibilities are endless.
Fly safely, buy my Wig-Wag (D) 'Witch
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Message 11
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| Subject: | GPS antenna performance (test results) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:36 PM 7/26/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
><james@nextupventures.com>
>
>Performed a smaller but similar test before putting our GPS antenna under
>the cowl.
>
>99's on signal strength BEFORE putting cowl over antenna.
>99's on signal strength AFTER putting cowl over antenna.
>
>Don't remember if there was a change in DOP (dilution of precision <I
>think>)
>
>Figured it might work.
>
>It does.
>
>James
Thank you for that data point James.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Over Voltage protection, figure 6.2 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mailbox bob at mail.flyboybob.com" <bob@flyboybob.com>
Bob (Nuckolls),
I am using a Z-14 and a permanent magnet dynamo with external regulator. I
am building an over voltage disconnect to disconnect B+ of the dynamo from
the battery bus using your figure 6.2 as a pattern. The over voltage
circuit also illuminates a dynamo disconnected LED or an under voltage
warning LED on the instrument panel.
In figure 6.2 you have a resistor and capacitor in series across the
contacts of the disconnect relay. There is nothing on the diagram to
indicate what their values should be. I have searched The AeroElectric
Connection and Aeroelectric.com and have not found anything covering this
detail. Do you have any recommendations for the values of C3 and R1 in the
below referenced circuit?
Schematic of over voltage circuit:
http://flyboybob.com/images/kr2/n52bl/electric%20and%20instrument/ov001-rev1
-1.jpg
The power distribution diagram shows how the over voltage disconnect fits
into the wiring scheme. I am using electronic ignition powered from the
essential bus. I have decided to connect the battery busses directly to the
essential bus and then power the main bus from the essential bus. This
allows me to shed the main bus load by opening one circuit breaker as a
first step in an electrical power emergency.
Power distribution diagram:
http://flyboybob.com/kr2/wd0002.htm
Regards,
Bob Lee
______________________________
3380 Ashton Drive
Suwanee, GA 30024
Cell: (404) 538-1427
Phone: (770) 844-7511
Fax: (770) 844-7501
mailto:bob@flyboybob.com
http://flyboybob.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Sigtronics SPA-400 interface with microair radio |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ian Scott" <jabiru22@yahoo.com.au>
Hi Bob,
Do you have any pointers on this intercom with this radio? Do you have a
cool schematic?
I already have the radio and am thinking of the sigtronics, as I can get
one cheap from an aircraft dismantlers (USD $100) or so.
Should I do it? And can I input things like a cd player into this
intercom?
thanks
Message 14
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| Subject: | Miniflow L Shadin |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ian Scott" <jabiru22@yahoo.com.au>
Is anyone using this with a gravity fed carbureted setup?
Thanks
Ian
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