Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:51 AM - Audio panel, of sorts... (Larry Bowen)
2. 05:41 AM - Re: New FAA AC On Amateur Built Aircraft (Dennis O'Connor)
3. 07:54 AM - Re: Re: Garmin/UPS merger (richard@riley.net)
4. 08:25 AM - Re: Battery Cable (Eric M. Jones)
5. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Garmin/UPS merger (Rob Housman)
6. 11:51 AM - Timer (F1Rocket@comcast.net)
7. 12:30 PM - RV7 panel ()
8. 03:43 PM - Urban Rumor (Eric M. Jones)
9. 04:59 PM - Dual COM's, one antenna?? (Ed Holyoke)
10. 07:32 PM - Voltage Filter?? (Jon Finley)
11. 07:48 PM - Re: Audio panel, of sorts... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 08:12 PM - Mag mystery (Larry Bowen)
13. 08:51 PM - Re: Voltage Filter?? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Audio panel, of sorts... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I have 3 or 4 audio signals I need to capture somehow without a
traditional audio panel. For example, nav radio, AOA, traffic detector,
etc. I also have an ol' 4-place NAT intercom. I'm wondering if I can run
the audio out from these various devices to the otherwise unused MIC pins
on the intercom. As an example, passenger 3 will actually be AOA
annunciation. Is there any reason why this wouldn't work?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: New FAA AC On Amateur Built Aircraft |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
Two locals JUST had their Smith Miniplane, 20 years in the making from
scratch, signed off... In chatting with them about the final inspection and
sign off, they did not mention one word about any questions over any forms,
etc... The FSDO inspector (yes, real FAA guy) looked at every picture taken
during the building - with them in the pictures and getting visibly older...
Went over the ship with a magnifying glass... Said, "Good Job", signed the
form and left... They stenciled the tail number on and are flying it......
Denny
----- Original Message -----
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe"
<davevon@tir.com>
>
> So what happens if you build your airplane from scratch???
>
> Dave
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "glong2" <glong2@netzero.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: New FAA AC On Amateur Built Aircraft
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "glong2" <glong2@netzero.net>
> >
> > QC:
> >
> > I have the same problem. I finally went to the kit supplier (Lancair)
and
> > they filled out the proper form (AC 8050-3) that I hope meets the FAA
> > requirement!
> > As I read the original requirement it did not require the form but said
it
> > "could be used". When I applied for the registration the FAA came back
and
> > said the original bill of sale was not good enough!
> >
> >
> > Eugene Long
> > Lancair Super ES
> > glong2@netzero.net
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin/UPS merger |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
At 05:17 PM 8/17/03 -0700, Terry Watson wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
>
>
>* AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
>
>
>If you can afford it, buy now. The Avionics Revolution has just ended.
>
>
>Why does this remind me of the head of the patent office who wanted to shut
>it down because everything worthwhile had already been invented - around
>1900!. Garmin was founded in 1989. It's a 14 year old company. It's going
>to take me about half that long to build my kit airplane. Do you really
>believe that if Garmin and UPS Avionics merge they will decide to stop
>innovating no one else will come along to unseat them? You could as easily
>create an empty hole in the ocean as you can in a market. The laws of
>physics will fill any void in the ocean. The laws of economics will just as
>predictably fill any void in the market, be it in avionics or lawn chairs or
>pickup trucks. Garmin and UPS are both excellent companies and I plan to buy
>from both. If they leave the market it will only be because competitors
>maybe just as invisible to us now as Garmin was in 1988 make them
>non-competitive. Translation: someone offers us a better deal.
>Or I guess we could just shut down the patent office and go home thinking
>the future will look just like the past. Who needs a telegraph in an
>airplane anyway?
>Terry
There's an enormous barrier to entry in the avionics industry. The
investment required is huge, and it's only when the industry leaders have
fallen decades behind that it makes sense to go after them - think of what
state King was in when Garmin, UPS, Magellin and Trimble appeared.
But there's only room for one market leader. It was a natural for Garmin
to buy UPS, neither one was making much.
At Osh I talked with the Microair guys. I asked if they could do their
transponder with the square form factor of the Terra, since there are a lot
of orphan Terra customers that would love to change. They said they could
- but it would cost $250k to certify it, with just a faceplate
change. They'd have to sell a thousand units just to make that
certification money back.. So far they've only sold about 1800
transponders. They've recouped maybe a fifth of their development costs.
So, yes, if Garmin gets rid of the GX60 and SL30 and CNX 80 (after
incorporating the WAAS into the GNS-530) and maybe, if we're lucky, they
keep the MX20 going (but I doubt it) and then they do nothing to upgrade
their line for 20 or 30 years, there will be a new competitor that
appears. I don't know about you, but I'm probably not going to be flying
in 20 or 30 years.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Cable |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Doug,
>Will be interested in hearing more about this cable, but need to make a
move
>quickly as I was planning to address this within the next two weeks.
See http://www.periheliondesign.com/fatwiremanual.pdf and
http://www.periheliondesign.com/fatwires.htm
>One thing that concerns me with respect to possibly crimping this wire is
not
>fracturing of the fused copper, but the propensity for aluminum (possibly
>limited to certain alloys) to relax or cold flow to relieve the pressure it
is
>under when "tightness" is used as the attach mechanism to achieve the gas
free
>interface.
The final stranding is 1000 (or so) of 0.010" diameter wire. The aluminum is
90%
of this diameter and the copper 10%. The aluminum is not going to be
extruded under
any clamping pressure available on this planet since the wire drawing die
pressure is
thousands of times what any clamp can exert.
>I am aware that several transformer/switchgear aluminum busses were
>implicated in fires when the aluminum was reported to have relaxed
relieving
>pressure under the joint thereby increasing the resistance in the
connection.
Exactly! The problem with aluminum wiring is that the relaxation induces
surface oxide.
The copper cladding prevents this. Copper oxide is decently conductive while
aluminum oxide is great insulation. But power companies cope with this
routinely. Even houses wired in aluminum are fixed
without removing the aluminum wiring, they just crimp or wire-nut a short
copper wire to the aluminum with some antioxidant goop in the connector.
Copper cladding the aluminum makes this unnecessary
>I would be much less concerned if this were to be soldered under minimal
>mechanical pressure.
Not only that, but it's a good practice. CCA solders better than copper
because of its lower thermal conductivity. I intend to supply the end
connectors and some optional Sn43Pb43Bi14 solder which makes the process
even easier.
>Do you share this concern, or disagree with it?
The reason Copper Clad Aluminum is not used everywhere is just a matter of
cost, and because in most application weight is not so critical. But this
stuff has been used in commercial and military aircraft for years. Aluminum
wiring finds many aircraft applications too.
>Regards, Doug Windhorn
This cable has another name, "Jesus-Wire"; because when engineers handle
this CCA FatWire (tm), they heft it one hand, smile and say "...Jesus!...."
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
"An acre of performance is worth the whole world of promise."
--James Howell
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin/UPS merger |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
In re: consolidation
In the case of avionics economics actually favors consolidation. Because of
the market size it is in the consumers' best interest to have fewer rather
than more manufactures competing for our business. In a very small market,
such as the total of around 200,000 general aviation airplanes in the US,
products are relatively expensive because the development and certification
costs are spread over very few units (even in the unlikely case of every one
of those 200,000 airplanes being a "customer"). When compared to things
like car audio, where the automobile market in the US is around 15 million
cars sold PER YEAR it gets really obvious why something like a simple CD
player for that meets a TSO is about 10X the price of a better unit for the
car.
If Garmin and UPS combine to sell the same total number of units of whatever
avionics box, they can actually reduce the unit price to us. I didn't say
they would, I said they could, and in the short run they won't because they
will still, for example, be selling the UPS CNX80 side by side with the
Garmin GNS530. The next generation of these boxes is where the savings can
result.
While consolidation can have an economic advantage for consumers, lack of
innovation may be the price we pay with fewer manufacturers competing.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of iflyaa5
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Garmin/UPS merger
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "iflyaa5" <iflyaa5@comcast.net>
Are you saying that AOPA does not have a position because both manufacturers
buy advertising from the AOPA and you're afraid that taking a position will
jeopardize that revenue? That's what it sounds like to me!
Furthermore, how does consolidation of the industry lead to product
improvement and more affordable costs? Please explain. Free enterprise
markets don't work that way! Perhaps the AOPA leadership needs to go back
and review their Economics textbooks?
I find AOPA's position on this as mousey and cowardly. You love to pat
yourselves on the back for taking on government entities such as the FAA,
TSA, City of Chicago, etc. But when it comes to taking on advertisers you
run scared.
Is OUR association of Airplane Owners and Pilots just chartered to defend
against the actions of non-revenue generating adversaries, or all of them?
Think about it. I don't think AOPA's position on this is in the best
interest of the membership!
Andy Morehouse
Bedford, TX
AOPA #04175087
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barnhart, Larry" <Larry.Barnhart@aopa.org>
Subject: Garmin/UPS merger
> Andy,
>
> AOPA doe snot have a position on the merger of Garmin and UPS. As I am
sure
> you know both advertise in our magazine and on our web site. For various
> reasons AOPA does not place one firm over another. Rather, we do support
> what the industry is doing to consolidate manufacturers of equipment and
for
> product improvement as long as cost is controlled and the products are
> available at reasonable costs.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Regards,
>
> Larry Barnhart
> Aviation Services Department
----- Original Message -----
From: "ANDY MOREHOUSE" <AMOREH@childmed.dallas.tx.us>
Subject: Garmin acquisition of UPSAT
> I am writing to inquire as to the AOPA's position on the announced
> acquisition of UPSAT by Garmin.
>
> In my view this is nothing more than Garmin's attempt to reduce
> competition. In a General Aviation marketplace where prices are already
> outrageously expensive for modern technology avionics systems, this will
> only drive pricing higher. This merger (if approved) will effectively
> eliminating one-fourth to one-third of the competition in this arena. In
> addition, it is arguable that this merger will be beneficial to the
> advancement of technology since advancements are often driven by
> competitive pressures.
>
> As a member, I encourage the AOPA to strongly oppose this merger, and I
> offer my support in doing so. Please advise as to any AOPA actions
> underway in this area. Additionally, please provide guidance as to what
> government representatives and agencies I should address my concerns.
>
> Andy Morehouse
> Member ID# 04175087
Message 6
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I would like to install a simple timer next to my fuel valve. Rather than use
some of the chronographs that contain a dozen more functions that what I need,
I'd rather go with something much more simpler. Ideally, it would install in a
panel rather that get velcroed to the surface, but I'm open.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: F1Rocket@comcast.net
What have others used that works for you? I'm just looking for a simple timer
that tells me when to switch tanks.
For you electronically capable builders out there, all I need is a timer that
would start once the master is on, then activate an alarm or flash a light at
15 minutes, and every 30 minutes after that. A simple push button to reset to
the next interval would be great. I don't need any display. Is this simple
enough that someone could put this together? I don't have the smarts to do
this, but I'd be willing to pay someone who did.
Randy
F1 Rocket
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/f1rocket/
Message 7
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <ktlkrn@cox.net>
Here is my plan for my all electric RV7 panel. I'd like some input from those with
experience with the equipment, specifically the Approach systems wiring block.
1) Garmin 430
2) Garmin 340 audio panel
3) Garmin 327 Transponder
4) Apollo LS 30 Nav/Com
5) Advanced systems engine monitor
6) Approach system stack (integrated wiring junction block)
7) Garmin CDI
8) XBus switch system.
Back up altimeter, airspeed and T&B.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>Why does this remind me of the head of the patent office who wanted to shut
>it down because everything worthwhile had already been invented - around
>1900!
Never happened. I can supply references for this non-event off-list if
interested.
Seek truth in all things.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
"When they say it's not about money, it's about money. When they say it's
not about sex, it's about sex."
--Dale Bumpers
Message 9
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| Subject: | Dual COM's, one antenna?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Get a hold of Bob Archer. He makes an antenna transmit/receive splitter
for that exact purpose. It was $150 a couple of years back. Since it's a
glass airplane, you ought to check out his internal antennas too.
Bob Archer bobsantennas@earthlink.net
Ed Holyoke
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Cameron"
<toucan@78055.com>
I'm building a Lancair Legacy now, all carbon fiber, and wondering
how
to handle 2 COM's without 2 separate, external COM antennas. The Legacy
is
such a sleek design, I hate to have it end up looking like a hedgehog,
antennae bristling out all over it.
I've seen the Comant CI 605 "diplexer," but I've heard mixed
things
about it, and its almost $700 price is a little hard to get around.
Any opinions or experience here?
Jim Cameron
Medina, Texas
aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Voltage Filter?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net>
Hi all,
I'm learning a ton from this group but have a very beginner question
(another one!).
I recently installed an automotive temperature gauge in my plane. The
unit runs on internal battery until bus voltage is around 13.5 volts and
then switches to external power. When it switches it beeps and flashes.
While idling my bus voltage seems to hover right around this range and
causes the gauge to flip back and forth between internal and external
power. It is VERY annoying.
I **thought** I could solve this by installing a capacitor in the
external power feed to "smooth" the input. After doing so (with no
effect), I realized why this wouldn't work but left me blank as to what
the solution might be. Could someone please provide a bit of insight
here??
Thanks much!
Jon Finley
N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 455 Hrs. TT - 3 Hrs Engine
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://www.FinleyWeb.net/default.asp?id=96
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Audio panel, of sorts... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:50 AM 8/18/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
>I have 3 or 4 audio signals I need to capture somehow without a
>traditional audio panel. For example, nav radio, AOA, traffic detector,
>etc. I also have an ol' 4-place NAT intercom. I'm wondering if I can run
>the audio out from these various devices to the otherwise unused MIC pins
>on the intercom. As an example, passenger 3 will actually be AOA
>annunciation. Is there any reason why this wouldn't work?
This might work. You want to use a capacitor to couple audio to
these inputs to keep the microphone DC power on these pins from
feeding back into or being loaded by the audio sources. Headset
audio levels are in the same ballpark as microphone levels so
I'd say the odds are in your favor.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Posting for a friend with mag problems. He has one mag and one
lightspeed EI on an O-360A1A with a key switch. Things were running
fine until recently. Any ideas on the solution or efficent ways to
diagnose?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
"My left mag key position kills the engine. I don't know if I have a bad
switch, bad mag or maybe a broken wire... "
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Voltage Filter?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:31 PM 8/18/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net>
>
>Hi all,
>
>I'm learning a ton from this group but have a very beginner question
>(another one!).
>
>I recently installed an automotive temperature gauge in my plane. The
>unit runs on internal battery until bus voltage is around 13.5 volts and
>then switches to external power. When it switches it beeps and flashes.
>While idling my bus voltage seems to hover right around this range and
>causes the gauge to flip back and forth between internal and external
>power. It is VERY annoying.
Why do you need internal battery power for a temperature
gage? How does the instrument behave if you remove the
battery?
>I **thought** I could solve this by installing a capacitor in the
>external power feed to "smooth" the input. After doing so (with no
>effect), I realized why this wouldn't work but left me blank as to what
>the solution might be. Could someone please provide a bit of insight
>here??
If it's a voltage level decision for switching, a capacitor
doesn't help. Caps only mitigate short duration and/or fast
rise-time events. This is a static power condition. See
how it works with the battery removed.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
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