Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:37 AM - From SWPC list (drew.schumann@us.army.mil)
2. 05:38 AM - Re: From SWPC list (Ron Raby)
3. 05:51 AM - Connectors (Jim Butcher)
4. 06:04 AM - Re: Mag mystery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:27 AM - Re: LV Warning project. Bill of Materials Error (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:47 AM - DO-178B (Gary Casey)
7. 07:21 AM - Re: DO-178B (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 07:34 AM - What kind of connector on LSE-EI system? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 07:45 AM - Re: Connectors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 08:44 AM - Re: grounding (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 09:29 AM - Re: What kind of connector on LSE-EI system? <5.0.0.25.2.20030814085912.011ec610@pop.central.cox.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20030815112634.012c12b8@pop.central.cox.net> (Dan Checkoway)
12. 10:38 AM - Re: What kind of connector on LSE-EI system? <5.0.0.25.2.20030814085912.011ec610@pop.central.cox.net> (Jeff Point)
13. 10:49 AM - Re: What kind of connector on LSE-EI system? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 11:16 AM - Metcal (RSwanson)
15. 11:53 AM - Re: Details ()
16. 11:56 AM - Relay Question (F1Rocket@comcast.net)
17. 12:12 PM - Re: What kind of connector on LSE-EI system? (Dan Checkoway)
18. 05:19 PM - Re: Audio panel, of sorts... (Larry Bowen)
19. 06:36 PM - Re: soldering iron wattage (John Schroeder)
20. 06:59 PM - Re: Bureaucratic Fungus (John Schroeder)
21. 07:00 PM - Wiring Harness Troubles (auto pilot) (Rick Fogerson)
22. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: Details (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 07:41 PM - Re: Wiring Harness Troubles (auto pilot) (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
24. 07:45 PM - Re: Wiring Harness Troubles (auto pilot) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 07:46 PM - Re: Audio panel, of sorts... (Stanley Blanton)
26. 08:23 PM - Re: Wiring Harness Troubles (auto pilot) (Charlie & Tupper England)
27. 09:01 PM - Re: Wiring Harness Troubles (auto pilot) (Larry Bowen)
28. 09:46 PM - V-8 Airplane power. (Dean Psiropoulos)
29. 09:50 PM - V-8 Airplane power (Dean Psiropoulos)
30. 10:11 PM - Intercom as alarm annunciator (Rob W M Shipley)
31. 11:42 PM - Re: V-8 Airplane power. (BTomm)
Message 1
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: drew.schumann@us.army.mil
Sent Tuesday, August 19, 2003 10:15 am
To Rod Smith <rodman@adnc.com> , Short Wing Piper Maillist <swpc@shortwing.org>
Cc
Bcc
Subject SWPC: Electrical failure
Saturday night I was practicing my night landings, all
flap settings, simulated engine out at different
locations in the pattern. I had the Provo airport to
myself. I then broke off to fly over the city and
climbed up to 8000 for a better view. I then headed
back towards the airport and decided to try a
simulated engine out to check my skills for a 3500 ft
decent to land. I made a radio call telling my
position and that I was simulating a engine out. I
then turned on my landing light and pulled back on the
throttle and started my decent adjusting my glide and
watching the airport runway lights then at about 6000
ft I lost all my electrical power. It took me a few
seconds to asses what happened then I tried my
breakers but no luck there. I then visually checked
for other traffic in the area and continued with my
decent for landing.
I wanted to reach back for my hand held but you know I
left it back in the truck. Never again will that
happen, I made a smooth landing without the use of a
landing light and used my large flash light for a taxi
light hanging it out my window.
I fixed the problem the next day, can YOU figure out
what happened?
Blaine
PA-22-135
2569A
__________________________________
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: From SWPC list |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron Raby" <ronr@advanceddesign.com>
loose main ground cable.
Ron Raby
----- Original Message -----
From: <drew.schumann@us.army.mil>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: From SWPC list
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: drew.schumann@us.army.mil
>
> Sent Tuesday, August 19, 2003 10:15 am
> To Rod Smith <rodman@adnc.com> , Short Wing Piper Maillist
<swpc@shortwing.org>
> Cc
> Bcc
> Subject SWPC: Electrical failure
>
>
> Saturday night I was practicing my night landings, all
> flap settings, simulated engine out at different
> locations in the pattern. I had the Provo airport to
> myself. I then broke off to fly over the city and
> climbed up to 8000 for a better view. I then headed
> back towards the airport and decided to try a
> simulated engine out to check my skills for a 3500 ft
> decent to land. I made a radio call telling my
> position and that I was simulating a engine out. I
> then turned on my landing light and pulled back on the
> throttle and started my decent adjusting my glide and
> watching the airport runway lights then at about 6000
> ft I lost all my electrical power. It took me a few
> seconds to asses what happened then I tried my
> breakers but no luck there. I then visually checked
> for other traffic in the area and continued with my
> decent for landing.
> I wanted to reach back for my hand held but you know I
> left it back in the truck. Never again will that
> happen, I made a smooth landing without the use of a
> landing light and used my large flash light for a taxi
> light hanging it out my window.
> I fixed the problem the next day, can YOU figure out
> what happened?
>
> Blaine
> PA-22-135
> 2569A
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net>
Bob,
In an earlier post you suggested the use of AMP CPC Series I connectors. You suggested
low cost tooling is available. I've found the connectors but have not
found low cost tooling. Suggestions?
Also, looks like these are rated at 13A max. I have a few circuits that are greater
- pitot heat, main bus feed etc. Is it better to use the proper size wire
and split to multiple contacts or use 2 smaller wires?
Lastly, it should be no problem to use LED's for announciator lights such as low
volts off the B&C regulator, correct? Just use an appropriate LED and current
limiting resister?
Thanks
Jim Butcher
Europa Builder A185
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:12 PM 8/18/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
>Posting for a friend with mag problems. He has one mag and one
>lightspeed EI on an O-360A1A with a key switch. Things were running
>fine until recently. Any ideas on the solution or efficent ways to
>diagnose?
>
>-
>Larry Bowen
>Larry@BowenAero.com
>http://BowenAero.com
>2003 - The year of flight!
>
>
>"My left mag key position kills the engine. I don't know if I have a bad
>switch, bad mag or maybe a broken wire... "
We're a tad shy on data. I presume he's not getting ignition
when in the left-only position on switch. Is this the mag
or EI system? Since his switch works to kill a system by
grounding, a broken wire (most likely fault) would let the
system keep running in left-only position. I'd guess that
which ever system is on the left side has gone on vacation.
Bob . . .
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: LV Warning project. Bill of Materials Error |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>Comments/Questions: Bob,
>
>In your drawing 9021-620 for the low voltage warning circuit,item R104
>shows a4.7K resistor. The Parts List says this is a 2.49K resistor. Which
>is correct?
The schematic and assy photos are correct. R104 is 4.7k.
I've fixed the document. Thanks for the heads-up . . .
You can download the corrected document at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/9021-620.pdf
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
I'm looking for someone familiar with the documentation requirements of
DO-178B to help finish up a project. If there is anyone out there that
could help on a contract basis, please contact me off line. Thanks.
Gary Casey
glcasey@adelphia.net
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:40 AM 8/19/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
>
>I'm looking for someone familiar with the documentation requirements of
>DO-178B to help finish up a project. If there is anyone out there that
>could help on a contract basis, please contact me off line. Thanks.
>
>Gary Casey
>glcasey@adelphia.net
My condolences sir . . . if you didn't look at the morass of
bureaucratic foo-foo that is the implementation of DO-178
before you launched your project, you're in for a rude awakening.
DO-178 is the SINGLE greatest impediment to the advancement
of aviation electronics through the use of microprocessors.
I am still designing circuits for customers using dozens of discrete
components as opposed to a single, $2 processor because the
development costs of perhaps a few thousand dollars are dwarfed
by the documentation costs running into tens of thousands.
Two very innovative new products for airplanes were nearly
scuttled recently not because they didn't work well, cost too
much or wouldn't last . . . on the contrary, these products
stood head-n-shoulders above other options in all respects.
DO-178 expenses turned out to be 3 to 10 times what was
expected. Just as major costs to acquire products advertised
on TV carries the burden of those smiling faces who
sold you the product, so it is with processor based products
in aircraft. If it's a $high$ product like an all-in-one
gps/comm, the gig doesn't seem so bad. But loading the
same bureaucratic overhead on a $50 gee-whiz leaves
most starry-eyed entrepreneurs with the glassy-eyed
stare.
Check with your local ACO and ask if they're aware of
any software DER's in your area that are qualified to
shepherd this hoard of cats through all the hoops ahead.
Good luck.
Bob . . .
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | What kind of connector on LSE-EI system? |
<5.0.0.25.2.20030814085912.011ec610@pop.central.cox.net>
<5.0.0.25.2.20030815112634.012c12b8@pop.central.cox.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Need some assistance from anyone having an LSE-EI system in hand.
Have a builder in TX who reports that the bundle going through the
firewall is terminated in a MALE connector. He also reports that
this is a 9-pin connector. I've been advised by others on the List
that it's a 15-pin connector.
I'm getting ready to ship some LSE-EI upgrade kits to folks who asked for
them and it would be really nice if I could ship them the right parts.
Thanks!
Bob . . .
At 01:57 AM 8/19/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Bob,
>Your 10 slot fuse block is nicely installed under the aft cockpit seat of
>the Bucker. It is mounted on a stiffened .040 2024 T-3 pan, located under
>the seat, out of the rain, but accessable to anybody with a small step
>ladder. In fact, one could change fuses in flight, if they don't mind not
>seeing what they are doing. The only drawback is the need to be careful of
>the seat belts, and not drop them on the belly of the airplane, but this
>caution should always apply...
You could fabricate a cover. Some builders have used threaded spacers
about an inch long as "nuts" to secure the fuseblock to its mounting
surface. If mounting screws come up from below and extend less than
1/2" into spacer, then the other end of spacers provide mounting holes
for a cover.
>I did some checking on the LSE ignition system. It sounds like we replace
>the soldered male d-sub connector with a crimped on version, with removable
>pins on the end that goes through the firewall, and into the female
>receptacle on the hall effect sensor, which is located on the right magneto
>mounting pad.
Hmmm . . . another builder suggested that we were replacing
a female connector. Appreciate the info . . .
> Good news, I ordered the MALE pin tool, and guessed correctly
>that the plug is male. This must mean that the correct tool was ordered.
There's only one tool for both male and female dsub pins.
>Bad news, the plug only has nine pins, not fifteen. Do you have the nine
>pin d sub connector in stock? If so, I'd like to purchase one from you. It
>is also very possible that I am talking about the wrong plug. Please
>advise....
Let me post this to the AeroElectric List and get feeback
from others who have this system in hand . . . I can
provide any connectors you need.
Bob . . .
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:55 AM 8/19/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net>
>
>Bob,
>In an earlier post you suggested the use of AMP CPC Series I
>connectors. You suggested low cost tooling is available. I've found the
>connectors but have not found low cost tooling. Suggestions?
These use either the sheet metal pins which can be applied
with B&C's BCT-1 tool or the same pins as a d-sub connector
which are installed with the RCT-3 tool.
Also, looks like these are rated at 13A max. I have a few circuits that
are greater - pitot heat, main bus feed etc. Is it better to use the
proper size wire and split to multiple contacts or use 2 smaller wires?
Why would you want to run so much current through a connector?
What alternator is fitted to your project that supports
loads like pitot heat?
You CAN parallel multiple pins in a connector by leaving
generous pigtails on at least one side before joining the
wires.
(1) ---------18AWG-------------
\
*----------- 12AWG -------
/
(2) ---------18AWG-------------
Make the 18AWG segments at least 1' long on one side before dropping into
a butt-splice. Wouldn't hurt to do this on both sides of a high current
pathway . . .
>Lastly, it should be no problem to use LED's for announciator lights such
>as low volts off the B&C regulator, correct? Just use an appropriate LED
>and current limiting resister?
See http://216.55.140.222/temp/LV_Led.jpg
I know the temptation is strong to make future maintenance
more "convenient" with the insertion of connectors in
major bundles. If it were my airplane, maintenance
would be eased with coiled-slack in bundles with
the absolute minimum number of joints . . . especially
those added by connectors.
Bob . . .
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:48 PM 8/19/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Joe Coser (coserj@mchsi.com) on Tuesday, August 19, 2003 at 07:48:18
>
>Tuesday, August 19, 2003
>
>Joe Coser
>
>,
>Email: coserj@mchsi.com
>Comments/Questions: Great site.
>I have a question:
> You talk about a single ground point location.. does this mean that
> on a metal aircraft that you would run a ground wire from the device
> back to the single ground location?
>Thank You
>Joe Coser building a SONEX
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Items remote from the cockpit that are not strong
potential antagonists and/or victims can be grounded
locally. These include position lights, strobe supplies,
landing and taxi lights, and pitot heat. I'd take
everything else, including battery (-) lead to
the fat brass bolt and ground bus on the firewall.
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
<5.0.0.25.2.20030815112634.012c12b8@pop.central.cox.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Need some assistance from anyone having an LSE-EI system in hand.
> Have a builder in TX who reports that the bundle going through the
> firewall is terminated in a MALE connector. He also reports that
> this is a 9-pin connector. I've been advised by others on the List
> that it's a 15-pin connector.
>
> I'm getting ready to ship some LSE-EI upgrade kits to folks who asked for
> them and it would be really nice if I could ship them the right parts.
On my LSE Plasma II system, I used Mouser part #156-1415:
http://checkoway.com/url/?s=b4d5cb28 It's a 15-pin female connector, and
that particular part is made by DGS (picked it over AMP because it was
cheaper).
The confusion over 9-pin vs. 15-pin may be because the Hall Effect sensor
(which I do not have) does take a 9-pin connector, I believe.
I looked at the LSE web site for online schematics but didn't see any. Let
me know if you want me to scan the paper manual schematic for you. Happy to
help you out in any way I can, it's the least I can do for all the help
you've given me!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
<5.0.0.25.2.20030815112634.012c12b8@pop.central.cox.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
I have the LSE Plasma II with the flywheel mounted sensor. The wire
bundle from the sensor terminates in a 15 pin female D-sub connector.
The other end is hard wired onto the circuit board, and does not use
D-subs like the magneto-hole mounted sensor.
Jeff Point
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>Need some assistance from anyone having an LSE-EI system in hand.
>Have a builder in TX who reports that the bundle going through the
>firewall is terminated in a MALE connector. He also reports that
>this is a 9-pin connector. I've been advised by others on the List
>that it's a 15-pin connector.
>
>I'm getting ready to ship some LSE-EI upgrade kits to folks who asked for
>them and it would be really nice if I could ship them the right parts.
>
>Thanks!
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>At 01:57 AM 8/19/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>>Bob,
>>Your 10 slot fuse block is nicely installed under the aft cockpit seat of
>>the Bucker. It is mounted on a stiffened .040 2024 T-3 pan, located under
>>the seat, out of the rain, but accessable to anybody with a small step
>>ladder. In fact, one could change fuses in flight, if they don't mind not
>>seeing what they are doing. The only drawback is the need to be careful of
>>the seat belts, and not drop them on the belly of the airplane, but this
>>caution should always apply...
>>
>>
>
> You could fabricate a cover. Some builders have used threaded spacers
> about an inch long as "nuts" to secure the fuseblock to its mounting
> surface. If mounting screws come up from below and extend less than
> 1/2" into spacer, then the other end of spacers provide mounting holes
> for a cover.
>
>
>
>>I did some checking on the LSE ignition system. It sounds like we replace
>>the soldered male d-sub connector with a crimped on version, with removable
>>pins on the end that goes through the firewall, and into the female
>>receptacle on the hall effect sensor, which is located on the right magneto
>>mounting pad.
>>
>>
>
> Hmmm . . . another builder suggested that we were replacing
> a female connector. Appreciate the info . . .
>
>
>
>> Good news, I ordered the MALE pin tool, and guessed correctly
>>that the plug is male. This must mean that the correct tool was ordered.
>>
>>
>
> There's only one tool for both male and female dsub pins.
>
>
>
>>Bad news, the plug only has nine pins, not fifteen. Do you have the nine
>>pin d sub connector in stock? If so, I'd like to purchase one from you. It
>>is also very possible that I am talking about the wrong plug. Please
>>advise....
>>
>>
>
>
> Let me post this to the AeroElectric List and get feeback
> from others who have this system in hand . . . I can
> provide any connectors you need.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: What kind of connector on LSE-EI system? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:24 AM 8/19/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> > Need some assistance from anyone having an LSE-EI system in hand.
> > Have a builder in TX who reports that the bundle going through the
> > firewall is terminated in a MALE connector. He also reports that
> > this is a 9-pin connector. I've been advised by others on the List
> > that it's a 15-pin connector.
> >
> > I'm getting ready to ship some LSE-EI upgrade kits to folks who asked for
> > them and it would be really nice if I could ship them the right parts.
>
>On my LSE Plasma II system, I used Mouser part #156-1415:
>http://checkoway.com/url/?s=b4d5cb28 It's a 15-pin female connector, and
>that particular part is made by DGS (picked it over AMP because it was
>cheaper).
>
>The confusion over 9-pin vs. 15-pin may be because the Hall Effect sensor
>(which I do not have) does take a 9-pin connector, I believe.
>
>I looked at the LSE web site for online schematics but didn't see any. Let
>me know if you want me to scan the paper manual schematic for you. Happy to
>help you out in any way I can, it's the least I can do for all the help
>you've given me!
That would be most useful data to have in my files. I'd
appreciate it.
Sooooo . . . if one plans to put the brain box on the other side
of the firewall -AND- one has the magneto-drive trigger option,
there are perhaps TWO d-sub connectors to remove and replace?
Bob . . .
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RSwanson" <rswan19@comcast.net>
Bob,
Could you enlighted the Metcal ignorant among us with some recommendations
for a mid priced unit. I see a new one that's called a STSS-002E. Would
that be acceptable for our needs?
R
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <DWENSING@aol.com>
Please see the attached file for details.
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I'm trying my best to play an electrical engineer, but I'm not very good at it.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: F1Rocket@comcast.net
I have a relay with both a positive and negative trigger connection on it. I
assume that when power is applied to the relay, then the NC and C terminals are
energized. After the trigger is energized with a momentary switch, the NO and
C terminals are energized. Am I correct so far?
If I energize the trigger a second time, does it switch back to the NC and C
terminals......or......does it do nothing.
What I'm trying to accomplish is to have a relay initially startup with one set
of terminals energized and switch to and remain on the other set of terminals
regardless of how many times the trigger is hit.
Help.
Randy
F1Rocket
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: What kind of connector on LSE-EI system? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> That would be most useful data to have in my files. I'd
> appreciate it.
Will do. I'll email you the files off-list.
> Sooooo . . . if one plans to put the brain box on the other side
> of the firewall -AND- one has the magneto-drive trigger option,
> there are perhaps TWO d-sub connectors to remove and replace?
I don't think you'd need to remove the mag-drive D-9 connector itself, just
reconnect its wires to the 15-pin connector. The reason being, the D-9
connector to the mag-drive doesn't need to pass through any holes.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Audio panel, of sorts... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Thanks Bob. How would I determine the size for the capacitor?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls@cox.net]
> >
> >I have 3 or 4 audio signals I need to capture somehow without a
> >traditional audio panel. For example, nav radio, AOA, traffic
> >detector, etc. I also have an ol' 4-place NAT intercom.
> I'm wondering
> >if I can run the audio out from these various devices to the
> otherwise
> >unused MIC pins on the intercom. As an example, passenger 3 will
> >actually be AOA annunciation. Is there any reason why this wouldn't
> >work?
>
> This might work. You want to use a capacitor to couple audio to
> these inputs to keep the microphone DC power on these pins from
> feeding back into or being loaded by the audio sources. Headset
> audio levels are in the same ballpark as microphone levels so
> I'd say the odds are in your favor.
>
> Bob . . .
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: soldering iron wattage |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
I followed Bob's advice and bid on a Metcal unit on ebay. He suggested
buying the tips and wand new, which I did and it is one whale of a
soldering machine. didn't know how much of a hazard I was with the low
wattage irons, or the big Weller guns, that I had used in the past.
That big tip is really awesome. Highly reommend going for ebay.
John
> I've purchased 110v irons at Radio Shack for under $10.00
> when I need something quick in the field. The irons on
> my workbench retail for $400+ but I get them off Ebay for a whole
> lot less.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2551056976&category=1504
>
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Bureaucratic Fungus |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
OC -
I loved it! Especially the last part! Do not archive. BTW, thanks ever so
much for providing the solid research and opinion on the regs.
John
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Wiring Harness Troubles (auto pilot) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
Hi Bob and listers,
I am having a tough time soldering wires to 9 and 15 pin connectors that connect
an autopilot servo (located in the wing to the controller in the panel. I'm
using Archer 60/40 (.062) standard rosin core solder, 22 AWG wire, and a small
soldering iron I bought from B&C.
I finding it very challenging to position the wire, iron, and solder to the solder
cup of the connector for the time required to melt the solder. I have melted
the plastic body of the connector, gotten globs of solder shorting adjacent
pins, and pushed one pin down into the connector body. A real mess!
Questions:
1) Is there a technique for doing this that you could explain or should I get
different connectors, solder, or iron?
2) Also, the plastic parts for holding the connector and wire are about 1 1/4
inches long but I only have about 3/4 of an inch space. Are there more compact
holders?
Thanks for any help,
Rick Fogerson
RV-3 electrical
Boise, ID
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:50 AM 8/19/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <DWENSING@aol.com>
>
>Please see the attached file for details.
The Matronics list server doesn't pass along attachments
of any kind to avoid overload and to avoid propagating
virii . . . can you post your attachment to a public
access server (your ISP usually provides 5-10 Megabytes
of disk space for this kind of activity)?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Harness Troubles (auto pilot) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
In a message dated 8/19/2003 10:00:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rickf@cableone.net writes:
Hi Bob and listers,
I am having a tough time soldering wires to 9 and 15 pin connectors that
connect an autopilot servo (located in the wing to the controller in the panel.
I'm using Archer 60/40 (.062) standard rosin core solder, 22 AWG wire, and a
small soldering iron I bought from B&C.
I finding it very challenging to position the wire, iron, and solder to the
solder cup of the connector for the time required to melt the solder. I have
melted the plastic body of the connector, gotten globs of solder shorting
adjacent pins, and pushed one pin down into the connector body. A real mess!
Questions:
1) Is there a technique for doing this that you could explain or should I
get different connectors, solder, or iron?
2) Also, the plastic parts for holding the connector and wire are about 1
1/4 inches long but I only have about 3/4 of an inch space. Are there more
compact holders?
Thanks for any help,
Rick Fogerson
RV-3 electrical
Boise, ID
Hello Rick,
If you are visually impaired at distances less than two feet from your nose
like most of us over 45, you need to work under a lighted magnifier. An iron
with a tip small enough that it will fit inside the solder cups of the plug
will be a help too. Be sure everything is clean and tarnish free. A pencil
eraser works good to burnish the oxidation off a part to be soldered. Flush with
alcohol. A little liquid flux applied to the solder cup is a big help to get
the solder flowing before the heat builds up too much. Keep your iron clean
and tinned. Tin the wires first and cut to length after the insulation shrinks
back a bit from the tinning step. I have had good luck filling the cups
about 1/2 way with solder first. If you are getting the pins so hot that you are
melting the plugs' insulation and causing the pins to sink in, I bet you need
to take a good look at cleanliness of all parts and be sure to have a good
iron tip that is clean and tinned properly. Good luck!
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Harness Troubles (auto pilot) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:59 PM 8/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
>
>Hi Bob and listers,
>I am having a tough time soldering wires to 9 and 15 pin connectors that
>connect an autopilot servo (located in the wing to the controller in the
>panel. I'm using Archer 60/40 (.062) standard rosin core solder, 22 AWG
>wire, and a small soldering iron I bought from B&C.
>
>I finding it very challenging to position the wire, iron, and solder to
>the solder cup of the connector for the time required to melt the
>solder. I have melted the plastic body of the connector, gotten globs of
>solder shorting adjacent pins, and pushed one pin down into the connector
>body. A real mess!
>
>Questions:
>
>1) Is there a technique for doing this that you could explain or should I
>get different connectors, solder, or iron?
Here's a comic book I did on solder d-sub assembly.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/dsubs/d_solder.html
Sounds like your space is tight and awkward. Have you
considered crimp on style connectors?
>2) Also, the plastic parts for holding the connector and wire are about 1
>1/4 inches long but I only have about 3/4 of an inch space. Are there more
>compact holders?
I presume you're talking about the backshell. I'm not aware
of any especially short ones. You could consider the Shoo-Goo
approach to wire support illustrated in
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html
This technique works with either crimp or soldered pin
connectors.
Bob . . .
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Audio panel, of sorts... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stanley Blanton" <stanb@door.net>
Bob,
How would multiple warning tones into the audio mixer on your web site best
be handled?
Stan Blanton
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls@cox.net]
> >
> >I have 3 or 4 audio signals I need to capture somehow without a
> >traditional audio panel. For example, nav radio, AOA, traffic
> >detector, etc. I also have an ol' 4-place NAT intercom.
> I'm wondering
> >if I can run the audio out from these various devices to the
> otherwise
> >unused MIC pins on the intercom. As an example, passenger 3 will
> >actually be AOA annunciation. Is there any reason why this wouldn't
> >work?
>
> This might work. You want to use a capacitor to couple audio to
> these inputs to keep the microphone DC power on these pins from
> feeding back into or being loaded by the audio sources. Headset
> audio levels are in the same ballpark as microphone levels so
> I'd say the odds are in your favor.
>
> Bob . . .
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Share: Share photos & files with other List members.
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Wiring Harness Troubles (auto pilot) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
Rick Fogerson wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
>
>Hi Bob and listers,
>I am having a tough time soldering wires to 9 and 15 pin connectors that connect
an autopilot servo (located in the wing to the controller in the panel. I'm
using Archer 60/40 (.062) standard rosin core solder, 22 AWG wire, and a small
soldering iron I bought from B&C.
>
>I finding it very challenging to position the wire, iron, and solder to the solder
cup of the connector for the time required to melt the solder. I have melted
the plastic body of the connector, gotten globs of solder shorting adjacent
pins, and pushed one pin down into the connector body. A real mess!
>
>Questions:
>
>1) Is there a technique for doing this that you could explain or should I get
different connectors, solder, or iron?
>
>
>2) Also, the plastic parts for holding the connector and wire are about 1 1/4
inches long but I only have about 3/4 of an inch space. Are there more compact
holders?
>
>Thanks for any help,
>Rick Fogerson
>RV-3 electrical
>Boise, ID
>
The best advice is to practice on some scraps first. Be creative & use a
couple of 6" pieces of wire lying on your work bench. Think of ways to
make the stripped ends overlap each other & not move while you touch
them both with your iron. How about a small pair of vise grips holding
one wire several inches from the stripped end. maybe another pair of
regular pliers holding the other wire, with a rubber band around the
handle to transform them into a clamp? The key is to hold both items to
be soldered so that they don't move when you apply the iron & solder.
Use a damp kitchen sponge or cotton cloth to clean the iron's tip (wipe
it quickly on the damp sponge), then lightly 'tin' the tip with solder;
just enough to give you a nice shiny tip. This will give you a much more
efficient heat transfer. With the freshly tinned tip, apply the tip to
the joint to be soldered. Try to touch both wires if you can. After a
couple of seconds, gently touch the solder to the joint (NOT the iron).
When the joint is hot enough, the solder will flow into the joint
smoothly. For small wires, you shouldn't need to heat the joint more
than a few seconds.
Practice doing this until you can do it reliably, then go back to the
connectors.
You can be creative in stabilizing the wires coming out of the connector
by using something like RTV as a potting compound.
Try a Google search for some photo tutorials on soldering.
Charlie
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Wiring Harness Troubles (auto pilot) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I've been thrilled with the consistant quality of the crimp pins, versus
the hassle of soldering the tiny d-subs. I got all the supplies and
tools from Bob's website.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Fogerson [mailto:rickf@cableone.net]
>
> Hi Bob and listers,
> I am having a tough time soldering wires to 9 and 15 pin
> connectors that connect an autopilot servo (located in the
> wing to the controller in the panel. I'm using Archer 60/40
> (.062) standard rosin core solder, 22 AWG wire, and a small
> soldering iron I bought from B&C.
>
> I finding it very challenging to position the wire, iron, and
> solder to the solder cup of the connector for the time
> required to melt the solder. I have melted the plastic body
> of the connector, gotten globs of solder shorting adjacent
> pins, and pushed one pin down into the connector body. A real mess!
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | V-8 Airplane power. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir@easystreet.com>
Interesting that this should come up at this point in time. I'm building an
RV-6A and received a solicitation from an outfit that is supposedly going to
be offering firewall forward V-8 kits for RVs (albeit at rather high
prices). Personally I have some reservations as to why I think this isn't
such a great idea and I'm including my response to the solicitor. If you
want a REALLY STRONG PSRU, then I think the Fred Geshwender designed unit
for V-8 automotive engines is THE one. It uses a HiVo silent chain like the
one driving the camshaft in a pushrod V-8 and is very stout. Fred sold the
rights to build this unit to a Wisconsin company I believe, you'll need to
get in contact with EAA, to find out who the new owner is. Speaking of
engines, I'm looking for a good source for one of the new Superior o-360
lycoming work-a-likes. I have talked with Bart Lalond at Aerosport power
and was VERY impressed. That was when I lived in Oregon and I now live in
Florida so I'm wondering if a shop with Aerosport's reputation can be found
in the lower 48. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks.
Now...the V-8 vendor for RVs is as follows:
www.predatoraviation.com
My response to predator aviation is as follows:
Interesting Chris but I've been down this road a long time ago and:
Decided against the alternative engine for many reasons. Most converted
auto engines had some problems which I think were partly due to people
trying to save weight by leaving off important things like the harmonic
balancer, etc. Also airframes are much lighter and have different resonant
frequencies than 2 ton steel cars. That results in vibration in things like
alternator brackets and causes them to break (even 1/8 thick steel
brackets). I commend you on doing a firewall forward package, that makes an
alternate engine setup MUCH more appealing. One of the reasons I chose a
Lycoming was because Van's has a firewall forward kit, cowl and motor mount
available and I didn't want to spend any more time trying to make those
things on my own. Then there was always getting the thing to behave once
you got everything installed. Invariably I would hear of many more hours of
fiddling with the installation to get it to work satisfactorily.
Your setup has two major problems that I see. One is weight and the other
is cost. One of the biggest reasons I wanted to do an auto engine setup was
because auto engines are extremely cheap (I hated the thought of spending 20
grand on 60 year old engine technology that was basically a Volkswagen on
steroids) even with a gearbox. Also auto technology is WAY WAY ahead of 60
year old Lycoming technology and overhauls are simple and cheap. I had
second thoughts about doing the Lycoming a couple years ago when I was at
the Northwest EAA fly-inn and saw the Subaru engine firewall forward
packages being offered by NSI. It looked and sounded great and I talked to
a fellow who'd been flying an RV-6 on one for a couple years and had good
luck with it. Alas, the kit was 25 grand!!! I could get new Lycoming from
Van's for around 20 so why spend more time and effort with something that
was relatively unproven? I think that, for half of the people who by a
Van's kit, they do it because it is the most bang for the buck and they
don't have lots of money to spend. So.asking more money than a Van's
Lycoming for your setup is shooting yourself in the foot. If you want lots
of customers I would say that you'd have to drop the price down to around 15
grand. Why so low? Because an aircraft engine shop in Kamloops BC Canada
(by the name of Aerosport power) will sell you a good overhauled Lycoming
0-320 for around 17 grand (and Bart is unmatched for customer service, I
can't say enough good things about the guy). An RV will scoot along just
fine on 160 hp, most of us who buy new from Van's get the 0-360 because
we're spending a ton of money anyway and it only costs a couple thousand
more to get the bigger motor). And now that Bart (and several others) are
selling assembled Superior XP360s for about a grand less than a new Lycoming
from Van's things are even better. Annnnnnd.. I think the Eggenfellner
Subaru setup also proves this point by having sold so many kits (at a low
price of 14 grand) as opposed to the NSI package (which I have not heard of
that many sold at a relatively high price of 25 grand).
Another problem you'll likely have (with the Van's two place aircraft) is
that your engine installation is likely to weigh 40% more than a 4 Cylinder
Lycoming. I know there are crazies out there who'll do anything and lots of
folks love to put more hp on but I think that installation is going to make
things just too nose heavy and will reduce useful load and increase stall
speed. But...you may be able to sell such a thing to RV-10 builders, maybe
even to me when I finish my RV-6 and start on a -10. I like the idea of the
V-8 engine sound and prestige and ease of maintenance and familiarity, but,
a Lycoming 0-540 flat 6 is also very smooth and also sounds like a V-8 with
a cam when idling on the ground (and will also likely be purchasable for
around the same money as your less expensive kit). Kudos for going to so
much trouble, the 2 place RVs may be the wrong target for mass sales but the
4 place aircraft from ALL kit manufacturers should be good fodder for you.
Go for it.
Regards,
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A #24907 finish kit
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | V-8 Airplane power |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir@easystreet.com>
Sorry guys, I wanted to post that email to the engines list but have had
Bob's excellent advice on my mind lately. If anyone on this list has a
suggestion feel free to email me. Thanks.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A 24907 Finish kit (finally)
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Intercom as alarm annunciator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" <rob@robsglass.com>
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Audio panel, of sorts...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:50 AM 8/18/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
>I have 3 or 4 audio signals I need to capture somehow without a
>traditional audio panel. For example, nav radio, AOA, traffic detector,
>etc. I also have an ol' 4-place NAT intercom. I'm wondering if I can run
>the audio out from these various devices to the otherwise unused MIC pins
>on the intercom. As an example, passenger 3 will actually be AOA
>annunciation. Is there any reason why this wouldn't work?
This might work. You want to use a capacitor to couple audio to
these inputs to keep the microphone DC power on these pins from
feeding back into or being loaded by the audio sources. Headset
audio levels are in the same ballpark as microphone levels so
I'd say the odds are in your favor.
Bob . . .
I'm not very expert on these matters but don't most intercom give the pilots input
priority? If this is so in this case the risk of missing an audio warning
whenever using the pilot's mike seems likely.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | V-8 Airplane power. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BTomm <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
If you like auto power but not the weight of a V8, why not a V6 at 230HP
and approx. 430lb? I looked at a nice example of this in a RV6A at
Arlington. Web info is at http://northwest-aero.com/
Bevan
RV7A
On Tuesday, August 19, 2003 9:43 PM, Dean Psiropoulos
[SMTP:deanpsir@easystreet.com] wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dean Psiropoulos"
<deanpsir@easystreet.com>
>
> Interesting that this should come up at this point in time. I'm building
an
> RV-6A and received a solicitation from an outfit that is supposedly going
to
> be offering firewall forward V-8 kits for RVs (albeit at rather high
> prices). Personally I have some reservations as to why I think this
isn't
> such a great idea and I'm including my response to the solicitor. If you
> want a REALLY STRONG PSRU, then I think the Fred Geshwender designed unit
> for V-8 automotive engines is THE one. It uses a HiVo silent chain like
the
> one driving the camshaft in a pushrod V-8 and is very stout. Fred sold
the
> rights to build this unit to a Wisconsin company I believe, you'll need
to
> get in contact with EAA, to find out who the new owner is. Speaking of
> engines, I'm looking for a good source for one of the new Superior o-360
> lycoming work-a-likes. I have talked with Bart Lalond at Aerosport power
> and was VERY impressed. That was when I lived in Oregon and I now live
in
> Florida so I'm wondering if a shop with Aerosport's reputation can be
found
> in the lower 48. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks.
>
>
> Now...the V-8 vendor for RVs is as follows:
>
> www.predatoraviation.com
>
>
> My response to predator aviation is as follows:
>
>
> Interesting Chris but I've been down this road a long time ago and:
>
>
> Decided against the alternative engine for many reasons. Most converted
> auto engines had some problems which I think were partly due to people
> trying to save weight by leaving off important things like the harmonic
> balancer, etc. Also airframes are much lighter and have different
resonant
> frequencies than 2 ton steel cars. That results in vibration in things
like
> alternator brackets and causes them to break (even 1/8 thick steel
> brackets). I commend you on doing a firewall forward package, that makes
an
> alternate engine setup MUCH more appealing. One of the reasons I chose a
> Lycoming was because Van's has a firewall forward kit, cowl and motor
mount
> available and I didn't want to spend any more time trying to make those
> things on my own. Then there was always getting the thing to behave once
> you got everything installed. Invariably I would hear of many more hours
of
> fiddling with the installation to get it to work satisfactorily.
>
>
> Your setup has two major problems that I see. One is weight and the
other
> is cost. One of the biggest reasons I wanted to do an auto engine setup
was
> because auto engines are extremely cheap (I hated the thought of spending
20
> grand on 60 year old engine technology that was basically a Volkswagen on
> steroids) even with a gearbox. Also auto technology is WAY WAY ahead of
60
> year old Lycoming technology and overhauls are simple and cheap. I had
> second thoughts about doing the Lycoming a couple years ago when I was at
> the Northwest EAA fly-inn and saw the Subaru engine firewall forward
> packages being offered by NSI. It looked and sounded great and I talked
to
> a fellow who'd been flying an RV-6 on one for a couple years and had good
> luck with it. Alas, the kit was 25 grand!!! I could get new Lycoming
from
> Van's for around 20 so why spend more time and effort with something that
> was relatively unproven? I think that, for half of the people who by a
> Van's kit, they do it because it is the most bang for the buck and they
> don't have lots of money to spend. So.asking more money than a Van's
> Lycoming for your setup is shooting yourself in the foot. If you want
lots
> of customers I would say that you'd have to drop the price down to around
15
> grand. Why so low? Because an aircraft engine shop in Kamloops BC
Canada
> (by the name of Aerosport power) will sell you a good overhauled Lycoming
> 0-320 for around 17 grand (and Bart is unmatched for customer service, I
> can't say enough good things about the guy). An RV will scoot along just
> fine on 160 hp, most of us who buy new from Van's get the 0-360 because
> we're spending a ton of money anyway and it only costs a couple thousand
> more to get the bigger motor). And now that Bart (and several others)
are
> selling assembled Superior XP360s for about a grand less than a new
Lycoming
> from Van's things are even better. Annnnnnd.. I think the Eggenfellner
> Subaru setup also proves this point by having sold so many kits (at a low
> price of 14 grand) as opposed to the NSI package (which I have not heard
of
> that many sold at a relatively high price of 25 grand).
>
>
> Another problem you'll likely have (with the Van's two place aircraft) is
> that your engine installation is likely to weigh 40% more than a 4
Cylinder
> Lycoming. I know there are crazies out there who'll do anything and lots
of
> folks love to put more hp on but I think that installation is going to
make
> things just too nose heavy and will reduce useful load and increase stall
> speed. But...you may be able to sell such a thing to RV-10 builders,
maybe
> even to me when I finish my RV-6 and start on a -10. I like the idea of
the
> V-8 engine sound and prestige and ease of maintenance and familiarity,
but,
> a Lycoming 0-540 flat 6 is also very smooth and also sounds like a V-8
with
> a cam when idling on the ground (and will also likely be purchasable for
> around the same money as your less expensive kit). Kudos for going to so
> much trouble, the 2 place RVs may be the wrong target for mass sales but
the
> 4 place aircraft from ALL kit manufacturers should be good fodder for
you.
> Go for it.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
>
> RV-6A #24907 finish kit
>
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|