Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:22 AM - Re: V-8 Airplane power. (Trampas)
2. 04:46 AM - Re: V-8 Airplane power. (William Slaughter)
3. 05:09 AM - Re: Intercom as alarm annunciator (Larry Bowen)
4. 05:22 AM - Re: V-8 Airplane power. (John Mireley)
5. 05:28 AM - Re: Z-14 with two rear batteries (John Schroeder)
6. 06:02 AM - Re: V-8 Airplane power. (Trampas)
7. 06:35 AM - Re: Z-14 with two rear batteries (N823ms@aol.com)
8. 07:44 AM - Re: Z-14 with two rear batteries (John Schroeder)
9. 08:09 AM - Re: V-8 Airplane power. (Matt Prather)
10. 08:32 AM - Re: V-8 Airplane power. (Trampas)
11. 08:44 AM - Re: Battery Cable (Tinne maha)
12. 09:02 AM - Re: Z-14 for rear mounted batteries ()
13. 09:52 AM - Re: Z-14 with two rear batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 09:54 AM - Re: Dual COM's, one antenna?? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 09:59 AM - Re: Use of relay S704-1 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 10:27 AM - combining a PM and conventional alternator (James Foerster)
17. 10:27 AM - Re: Audio panel, of sorts... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 11:00 AM - Re: Intercom as alarm annunciator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 11:01 AM - Re: Audio panel, of sorts... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 12:13 PM - Re: V-8 Airplane power. (James E. Clark)
21. 12:32 PM - Re: What kind of connector on LSE-EI system? <5.0.0.25.2.20030814085912.011ec610@pop.central.cox.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20030815112634.012c12b8@pop.central.cox.net> (Phil Birkelbach)
22. 12:48 PM - customer service ()
23. 12:53 PM - Re: Z-14 with two rear batteries (N823ms@aol.com)
24. 01:01 PM - Re: V-8 Airplane power. (John Mireley)
25. 01:33 PM - Re: customer service (Charlie Kuss)
26. 01:41 PM - Re: V-8 Airplane power. (Scott Bilinski)
27. 01:48 PM - Re: customer service (RSwanson)
28. 02:10 PM - Re: customer service (John Slade)
29. 02:10 PM - Re: Kilovac 200 Master contactor was (Charlie Kuss)
30. 02:13 PM - Re: combining a PM and conventional (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
31. 02:16 PM - Re: Battery Cable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
32. 02:34 PM - Re: customer service (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
33. 02:57 PM - Re: customer service (Rob Housman)
34. 03:26 PM - Re: customer service (Chris Byrne)
35. 03:41 PM - Re: customer service (John Slade)
36. 05:28 PM - Re: Battery Cable (Tinne maha)
37. 07:11 PM - Re: customer service (Finn Lassen)
38. 08:01 PM - Re: Audio panel, of sorts... (Joel Harding)
39. 08:32 PM - Re: Audio panel, of sorts... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
40. 08:33 PM - Re: customer service (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
41. 08:37 PM - What kind of connector on LSE-EI system? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
42. 08:54 PM - EV200 contactor source (jmfpublic@comcast.net)
Message 1
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| Subject: | V-8 Airplane power. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
I would consider www.crossflow.com
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BTomm
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: V-8 Airplane power.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BTomm <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
If you like auto power but not the weight of a V8, why not a V6 at 230HP
and approx. 430lb? I looked at a nice example of this in a RV6A at
Arlington. Web info is at http://northwest-aero.com/
Bevan
RV7A
On Tuesday, August 19, 2003 9:43 PM, Dean Psiropoulos
[SMTP:deanpsir@easystreet.com] wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dean Psiropoulos"
<deanpsir@easystreet.com>
>
> Interesting that this should come up at this point in time. I'm
building
an
> RV-6A and received a solicitation from an outfit that is supposedly
going
to
> be offering firewall forward V-8 kits for RVs (albeit at rather high
> prices). Personally I have some reservations as to why I think this
isn't
> such a great idea and I'm including my response to the solicitor. If
you
> want a REALLY STRONG PSRU, then I think the Fred Geshwender designed
unit
> for V-8 automotive engines is THE one. It uses a HiVo silent chain
like
the
> one driving the camshaft in a pushrod V-8 and is very stout. Fred
sold
the
> rights to build this unit to a Wisconsin company I believe, you'll
need
to
> get in contact with EAA, to find out who the new owner is. Speaking
of
> engines, I'm looking for a good source for one of the new Superior
o-360
> lycoming work-a-likes. I have talked with Bart Lalond at Aerosport
power
> and was VERY impressed. That was when I lived in Oregon and I now
live
in
> Florida so I'm wondering if a shop with Aerosport's reputation can be
found
> in the lower 48. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks.
>
>
> Now...the V-8 vendor for RVs is as follows:
>
> www.predatoraviation.com
>
>
> My response to predator aviation is as follows:
>
>
> Interesting Chris but I've been down this road a long time ago and:
>
>
> Decided against the alternative engine for many reasons. Most
converted
> auto engines had some problems which I think were partly due to people
> trying to save weight by leaving off important things like the
harmonic
> balancer, etc. Also airframes are much lighter and have different
resonant
> frequencies than 2 ton steel cars. That results in vibration in
things
like
> alternator brackets and causes them to break (even 1/8 thick steel
> brackets). I commend you on doing a firewall forward package, that
makes
an
> alternate engine setup MUCH more appealing. One of the reasons I
chose a
> Lycoming was because Van's has a firewall forward kit, cowl and motor
mount
> available and I didn't want to spend any more time trying to make
those
> things on my own. Then there was always getting the thing to behave
once
> you got everything installed. Invariably I would hear of many more
hours
of
> fiddling with the installation to get it to work satisfactorily.
>
>
> Your setup has two major problems that I see. One is weight and the
other
> is cost. One of the biggest reasons I wanted to do an auto engine
setup
was
> because auto engines are extremely cheap (I hated the thought of
spending
20
> grand on 60 year old engine technology that was basically a Volkswagen
on
> steroids) even with a gearbox. Also auto technology is WAY WAY ahead
of
60
> year old Lycoming technology and overhauls are simple and cheap. I
had
> second thoughts about doing the Lycoming a couple years ago when I was
at
> the Northwest EAA fly-inn and saw the Subaru engine firewall forward
> packages being offered by NSI. It looked and sounded great and I
talked
to
> a fellow who'd been flying an RV-6 on one for a couple years and had
good
> luck with it. Alas, the kit was 25 grand!!! I could get new Lycoming
from
> Van's for around 20 so why spend more time and effort with something
that
> was relatively unproven? I think that, for half of the people who by
a
> Van's kit, they do it because it is the most bang for the buck and
they
> don't have lots of money to spend. So.asking more money than a Van's
> Lycoming for your setup is shooting yourself in the foot. If you want
lots
> of customers I would say that you'd have to drop the price down to
around
15
> grand. Why so low? Because an aircraft engine shop in Kamloops BC
Canada
> (by the name of Aerosport power) will sell you a good overhauled
Lycoming
> 0-320 for around 17 grand (and Bart is unmatched for customer service,
I
> can't say enough good things about the guy). An RV will scoot along
just
> fine on 160 hp, most of us who buy new from Van's get the 0-360
because
> we're spending a ton of money anyway and it only costs a couple
thousand
> more to get the bigger motor). And now that Bart (and several others)
are
> selling assembled Superior XP360s for about a grand less than a new
Lycoming
> from Van's things are even better. Annnnnnd.. I think the
Eggenfellner
> Subaru setup also proves this point by having sold so many kits (at a
low
> price of 14 grand) as opposed to the NSI package (which I have not
heard
of
> that many sold at a relatively high price of 25 grand).
>
>
> Another problem you'll likely have (with the Van's two place aircraft)
is
> that your engine installation is likely to weigh 40% more than a 4
Cylinder
> Lycoming. I know there are crazies out there who'll do anything and
lots
of
> folks love to put more hp on but I think that installation is going to
make
> things just too nose heavy and will reduce useful load and increase
stall
> speed. But...you may be able to sell such a thing to RV-10 builders,
maybe
> even to me when I finish my RV-6 and start on a -10. I like the idea
of
the
> V-8 engine sound and prestige and ease of maintenance and familiarity,
but,
> a Lycoming 0-540 flat 6 is also very smooth and also sounds like a V-8
with
> a cam when idling on the ground (and will also likely be purchasable
for
> around the same money as your less expensive kit). Kudos for going to
so
> much trouble, the 2 place RVs may be the wrong target for mass sales
but
the
> 4 place aircraft from ALL kit manufacturers should be good fodder for
you.
> Go for it.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
>
> RV-6A #24907 finish kit
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | V-8 Airplane power. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Slaughter" <willslau@alumni.rice.edu>
Go with Aerosport Power. I live in Houston and bought my engine from
them with no problems. I don't recall the exact freight charges, but
they were not a big deal. The engine arrives well mounted in a large,
sturdy wooden box.
William Slaughter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dean
Psiropoulos
Subject: AeroElectric-List: V-8 Airplane power.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dean Psiropoulos"
--> <deanpsir@easystreet.com>
Interesting that this should come up at this point in time. I'm building
an RV-6A and received a solicitation from an outfit that is supposedly
going to be offering firewall forward V-8 kits for RVs (albeit at rather
high prices). Personally I have some reservations as to why I think
this isn't such a great idea and I'm including my response to the
solicitor. If you want a REALLY STRONG PSRU, then I think the Fred
Geshwender designed unit for V-8 automotive engines is THE one. It uses
a HiVo silent chain like the one driving the camshaft in a pushrod V-8
and is very stout. Fred sold the rights to build this unit to a
Wisconsin company I believe, you'll need to get in contact with EAA, to
find out who the new owner is. Speaking of engines, I'm looking for a
good source for one of the new Superior o-360 lycoming work-a-likes. I
have talked with Bart Lalond at Aerosport power and was VERY impressed.
That was when I lived in Oregon and I now live in Florida so I'm
wondering if a shop with Aerosport's reputation can be found in the
lower 48. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks.
<snip>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Intercom as alarm annunciator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Rob -
I haven't noticed this feature of intercoms, but maybe I wasn't paying
attention.
Do you know of a better alternative to capture 3-4 audio signals --
without using a traditional audio panel?
Thx,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob W M Shipley [mailto:rob@robsglass.com]
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
> >--> <Larry@BowenAero.com>
> >
> >I have 3 or 4 audio signals I need to capture somehow without a
> >traditional audio panel. For example, nav radio, AOA, traffic
> >detector, etc. I also have an ol' 4-place NAT intercom.
> I'm wondering
> >if I can run the audio out from these various devices to the
> otherwise
> >unused MIC pins on the intercom. As an example, passenger 3 will
> >actually be AOA annunciation. Is there any reason why this wouldn't
> >work?
>
> This might work. You want to use a capacitor to couple audio to
> these inputs to keep the microphone DC power on these pins from
> feeding back into or being loaded by the audio sources. Headset
> audio levels are in the same ballpark as microphone levels so
> I'd say the odds are in your favor.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> I'm not very expert on these matters but don't most intercom
> give the pilots input priority? If this is so in this case
> the risk of missing an audio warning whenever using the
> pilot's mike seems likely.
> Rob Rob W M Shipley RV9A N919RV
> (res) Fuselage
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: V-8 Airplane power. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Mireley <mireley@msu.edu>
Trampas wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>
> I would consider www.crossflow.com
>
> Trampas
>
I wouldn't. A 350 hp Subaru conversion at $35k is a bit steep.
>
> If you like auto power but not the weight of a V8, why not a V6 at 230HP
>
> and approx. 430lb? I looked at a nice example of this in a RV6A at
> Arlington. Web info is at http://northwest-aero.com/
>
> Bevan
> RV7A
The weigth of the aluminum block LS1 v8 is close to that
of V6 (iron block) used in the northwest-aero conversion and
puts out 350 hp.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 with two rear batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Dan -
I'm about 3/4ths of the way on designing our Z-14 based system on the
Lancair ES. I can send you a page for the main power distribution system,
one for the battery compartment, one for the power panel on the firewall
and one for the regulators on the firewall in PDF format.
We put the ground power, both battery and crossfeed contactors in the back
next to the batteries, along with the two 6 slot battery busses. They will
be on a phenolic panel on the forward side of the bulkhead that separates
the tail cone from the rest of the fuselage.
Let me know which format. I can also send the equipment list.
John
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 11:06:13 -0400, Dan O'Brien <danobrien@cox.net> wrote:
Bob,
>
> Awhile back you posted a hand-drawn diagram showing the basic electrical
> configuration for a Z-14 system with two rear-mounted batteries. The
> figure shows six buses: a fuseblock near each battery in back, a ground
> bus in back tied in with the panel/firewall ground bus in front, and the
> main and auxiliary buses in front.
Message 6
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| Subject: | V-8 Airplane power. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
Out of curiosity how much does an LS1 cost? Who supplies them with ECM
sensors, etc? Also how much does an LS1 weigh?
Thanks
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Mireley
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: V-8 Airplane power.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Mireley <mireley@msu.edu>
Trampas wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>
> I would consider www.crossflow.com
>
> Trampas
>
I wouldn't. A 350 hp Subaru conversion at $35k is a bit steep.
>
> If you like auto power but not the weight of a V8, why not a V6 at
230HP
>
> and approx. 430lb? I looked at a nice example of this in a RV6A at
> Arlington. Web info is at http://northwest-aero.com/
>
> Bevan
> RV7A
The weigth of the aluminum block LS1 v8 is close to that
of V6 (iron block) used in the northwest-aero conversion and
puts out 350 hp.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 with two rear batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N823ms@aol.com
John:
I would not mind a copy of that. Do you have any tips on pre fitting
the panel. I have taken everything off the panel except the Garmin stack rack.
Ed Silvanic
N823MS@aol.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 with two rear batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Ed -
I haven't a clue as to how to fit the panel. Our bird has been "belly up"
for the past 6 weeks getting final on the body work. We hope to turn it
over this week and will try to see where the panel fits. Gotta finish the
electrical drawing on the cabin side of the firewall and we need to know
where we want to install the two main DC busses.
Will send the files - PDF or DWG format?
John
Message 9
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| Subject: | V-8 Airplane power. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
You can buy the LS1 from a Chevy dealer. It can be purchased with
all of the accessories to make it run. Here's a dealer that sells
complete engines:
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/sales.html
Looks like about $6000 for a 320hp version. Probably too heavy for
a BH once everything is put together, as I think the all up weight
is about 500lb wet.
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>
> Out of curiosity how much does an LS1 cost? Who supplies them with ECM
> sensors, etc? Also how much does an LS1 weigh?
>
> Thanks
> Trampas
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
> Mireley
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: V-8 Airplane power.
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Mireley <mireley@msu.edu>
>
> Trampas wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>>
>> I would consider www.crossflow.com
>>
>> Trampas
>>
>
> I wouldn't. A 350 hp Subaru conversion at $35k is a bit steep.
>
>
>>
>> If you like auto power but not the weight of a V8, why not a V6 at
> 230HP
>>
>> and approx. 430lb? I looked at a nice example of this in a RV6A at
>> Arlington. Web info is at http://northwest-aero.com/
>>
>> Bevan
>> RV7A
>
> The weigth of the aluminum block LS1 v8 is close to that
> of V6 (iron block) used in the northwest-aero conversion and
> puts out 350 hp.
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | V-8 Airplane power. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
Thanks that was the information I was looking for!
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Prather
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: V-8 Airplane power.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather"
<mprather@spro.net>
You can buy the LS1 from a Chevy dealer. It can be purchased with
all of the accessories to make it run. Here's a dealer that sells
complete engines:
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/sales.html
Looks like about $6000 for a 320hp version. Probably too heavy for
a BH once everything is put together, as I think the all up weight
is about 500lb wet.
Regards,
Matt-
N34RD
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>
> Out of curiosity how much does an LS1 cost? Who supplies them with ECM
> sensors, etc? Also how much does an LS1 weigh?
>
> Thanks
> Trampas
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
John
> Mireley
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: V-8 Airplane power.
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Mireley
<mireley@msu.edu>
>
> Trampas wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>>
>> I would consider www.crossflow.com
>>
>> Trampas
>>
>
> I wouldn't. A 350 hp Subaru conversion at $35k is a bit steep.
>
>
>>
>> If you like auto power but not the weight of a V8, why not a V6 at
> 230HP
>>
>> and approx. 430lb? I looked at a nice example of this in a RV6A at
>> Arlington. Web info is at http://northwest-aero.com/
>>
>> Bevan
>> RV7A
>
> The weigth of the aluminum block LS1 v8 is close to that
> of V6 (iron block) used in the northwest-aero conversion and
> puts out 350 hp.
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Cable |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
If I were using this material, I think I would solder
the joints. Gas-tight with no metal being mashed. Agreed . . .
"relaxing" of any metal under pressure is alloy dependent . . .
I don't think we worry much about thousands of riveted joints
in aluminum structures getting loose due to viscosity of the
metal.
I'll poke around the AMP application notes and position papers
on aluminum conductors. If ANYONE knows all the details, it
has to be AMP.
Bob . . .
Bob Eric,
I've been following this thread with interest when possible. I'm interested 'cuz
I'm building a kitfox with a 28 AH RG battery in the tail to balance a Lyc O-235
engine. The kit came with a 4 AWG copper wire to run from the battery contactor
to the starter contactor (about 17 feet!) recommends grounding through
the steel frame. Based on The Connection a short discussion with Tim Hedding
at BC, I'vedecided to run a separate ground wire but it was tough 'cuz I'm trying
everywhere to hold my weight down as much as possible. Iwould really like
touse CCA wire but, regardless would like to be sure I'm using wire of sufficient
size without over-doing it. I'm running a Sky-Tec Starter (pretty sure it's
PM) single electronic ignition with a 28 AH RG battery. It is about 17 feet
from master to starter contactor and about another4 or 5 feet to the starter.
Assuming copper wire, could you please recommend a minimum wire size for both
the positive negative leads? Any other comments are welcome too.
Thanks,
Grant Krueger
======================================================================
Get MSN 8 <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMMENUS/2743??PS=">and help protect your children with advanced parental controls.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 for rear mounted batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <danobrien@cox.net>
John,
Thanks for the reply. I am interested in your diagrams. Both pdf and dwg would
be nice. Thanks a bunch.
Dan
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 with two rear batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:06 AM 8/17/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien@cox.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>Awhile back you posted a hand-drawn diagram showing the basic electrical
>configuration for a Z-14 system with two rear-mounted batteries. The
>figure shows six buses: a fuseblock near each battery in back, a ground bus
>in back tied in with the panel/firewall ground bus in front, and the main
>and auxiliary buses in front. I wasn't able to find this diagram on your
>site. I just want to confirm that this is the configuration you recommend
>for two rear-mounted batteries.
See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Appendix_Z_Drawings/Z-14_Rear_Bats.pdf
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Dual COM's, one antenna?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:01 PM 8/17/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Cameron" <toucan@78055.com>
>
> I'm building a Lancair Legacy now, all carbon fiber, and wondering how
>to handle 2 COM's without 2 separate, external COM antennas. The Legacy is
>such a sleek design, I hate to have it end up looking like a hedgehog,
>antennae bristling out all over it.
> I've seen the Comant CI 605 "diplexer," but I've heard mixed things
>about it, and its almost $700 price is a little hard to get around.
> Any opinions or experience here?
diplexers or duplexers at vhf frequencies for common tx/rx on
one antenna are not cheap. Further, one antenna is now responsible
for both comm systems . . . single point of failure.
I'd go with two antennas.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Use of relay S704-1 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:23 PM 8/17/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PeterHunt1@aol.com
>
>Bob,
>
>I am using toggle switches from B&C (P/N S700-1-3 and -2-3) mounted on my
>panel. On my pitot heat with 12 amp draw should I use a S704-1 relay to
>reduce
>the amps going through my 1-3 switch?
What's the wattage rating of your pitot heater (150W?)
if it's the more common 100W the peak current will be over
12A but settles down to 8A while running. You could use
a relay but I think I wouldn't.
> Do I need the relay on a 7 amp landing
>light or just run the full load through the switch?
Right through the switch will be fine.
> What about on my master
>switch to my main bus through which I may run 30 amps with everything
>powered up
>and transmitting? I am using a S704-1 on my OVM (Figure Z-13). Where else
>is an S704-1 appropriate and why? What prolonged amperage can a S700-1-3
>switch handle?
They're rated at 7A. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
I don't think you need any extra relays.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | combining a PM and conventional alternator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comcast.net>
Bob,
I have a Jabiru 3300 engine with a 20 amp PM alternator to which I have added
a B&C spline drive 20 amp alternator. This latter unit may not put out 20 amps
directly driven from the crank, but it will certainly do 10- 12 amps which will
be plenty. I plan to use a Z-14 type of system with the PM alternator connected
with the overvoltage crowbar and s702-1 relay. This will be the main alternator
in the Z14 diagram, and be connected to the starting battery and lighting
system.
The B&C spline drive unit will be connected to the e-bus and a 5 amp-hour battery.
It will have a LR-3 controller. I am committed to this arrangement for weight
and space reasons.
The main contactor will be a Kilovac 200, which only draws 115 ma steady state,
and thus does not need to be turned off to save power if I lose an alternator.
It continues to serve the traditional isolation role and is labeled 'master
A'. The B&C alternator will be wired as depicted in Z14 "aux alt" position,
but the S701-1 aux battery contactor will be replaced with a S702-1. I am considering
other alterations, too.
Questions:
1. Since I will not cross-feed the batteries for starting, I know that I can replace
the big S701-2 cross-feed with a smaller S702-1 relay. Could I get rid
of the relay altogether and just use a cross-connect switch? No more than 10
amps would be drawn by the e-bus at any time, and probably much less. I'm fairly
confidant that this change should be OK.
2. Could I replace this cross-connect switch with a diode, and get rid of pilot
intervention completely? I'm not worried about voltage spikes on the e-bus,
just voltage sags which reset the EFIS. I will have low voltage annunciation
for both batteries. I can't think of any situation where I would not want the
main bus to contribute to the e-bus if the PM [main] alternator is working,
or if the main battery still had power if the small e-bus 5 amp-hour unit runs
low. I don't want the main bus to draw from the small e-bus battery, and the
diode fulfills that need. However, if the PM alternator fails, the B&C unit could
contribute to the main bus, and a cross-connect switch, in parallel with
the diode, could fill that role. I'm not at all sure how to analyze this choice.
3. Should the PM (main) alternator be connected to the battery side of the Kilovac
contactor as in Z13, or to the load side as in Z14? It does have its own
pilot controlled disconnect relay in the form of the S702-1. If it is on the
battery side of the contactor, I can shut off the nav lights, strobe, landing
lights with just the Master A switch, while still getting power from the PM alternator.
I'm lost on this question.
Thanks for your help
Jim Foerster
Message 17
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| Subject: | Audio panel, of sorts... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:15 PM 8/19/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
>Thanks Bob. How would I determine the size for the capacitor?
10uf or larger, 16v or larger. Electrolytics of any style.
You can get some quite small devices from Radio Shack.
Cat/No. 272-1346
(+)side of cap faces the intercom's mic connnection.
Bob . . .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Intercom as alarm annunciator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:09 AM 8/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
>Rob -
>
>I haven't noticed this feature of intercoms, but maybe I wasn't paying
>attention.
>
>Do you know of a better alternative to capture 3-4 audio signals --
>without using a traditional audio panel?
Just published a DIY audio mixer circuit data
package at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html
You can build the monophonic version on the ECB I can
supply or you can get your own from ExpressPCB.com
Artwork file is at:
http://216.55.140.222/Catalog/AEC/9009/9009-301-1.pcb
You can expand the number of inputs indefinitely
by adding any needed 150-ohm/10-uF combinations
for each new input.
Bob . . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | Audio panel, of sorts... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:43 PM 8/19/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stanley Blanton" <stanb@door.net>
>
>
>Bob,
>
>How would multiple warning tones into the audio mixer on your web site best
>be handled?
See recent post on data package and options for expanding
inputs out to any practical number . . .
Bob . . .
Message 20
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| Subject: | V-8 Airplane power. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Living in Florida should not be a problem with going with Bart.
Only adds a **FEW** dollars shipping charge.
Don't let ~$300 in shipping sway you from getting what is probably one of
the best engine "buildups" you are going to trust your life to.
There may be GREAT shops in Florida, but it will be hard to find one with
Bart's *reputation*.
James
... happy Bart customer in SC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dean
> Psiropoulos
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:43 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: V-8 Airplane power.
>
>
<<<<SNIP>>>>
> get in contact with EAA, to find out who the new owner is. Speaking of
> engines, I'm looking for a good source for one of the new Superior o-360
> lycoming work-a-likes. I have talked with Bart Lalond at Aerosport power
> and was VERY impressed. That was when I lived in Oregon and I now live in
> Florida so I'm wondering if a shop with Aerosport's reputation
> can be found
> in the lower 48. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks.
>
>
> Now...the V-8 vendor for RVs is as follows:
>
> www.predatoraviation.com
>
>
> My response to predator aviation is as follows:
>
>
> Interesting Chris but I've been down this road a long time ago and:
>
>
> Decided against the alternative engine for many reasons. Most converted
> auto engines had some problems which I think were partly due to people
> trying to save weight by leaving off important things like the harmonic
> balancer, etc. Also airframes are much lighter and have
> different resonant
> frequencies than 2 ton steel cars. That results in vibration in
> things like
> alternator brackets and causes them to break (even 1/8 thick steel
> brackets). I commend you on doing a firewall forward package,
> that makes an
> alternate engine setup MUCH more appealing. One of the reasons I chose a
> Lycoming was because Van's has a firewall forward kit, cowl and
> motor mount
> available and I didn't want to spend any more time trying to make those
> things on my own. Then there was always getting the thing to behave once
> you got everything installed. Invariably I would hear of many
> more hours of
> fiddling with the installation to get it to work satisfactorily.
>
>
> Your setup has two major problems that I see. One is weight and the other
> is cost. One of the biggest reasons I wanted to do an auto
> engine setup was
> because auto engines are extremely cheap (I hated the thought of
> spending 20
> grand on 60 year old engine technology that was basically a Volkswagen on
> steroids) even with a gearbox. Also auto technology is WAY WAY
> ahead of 60
> year old Lycoming technology and overhauls are simple and cheap. I had
> second thoughts about doing the Lycoming a couple years ago when I was at
> the Northwest EAA fly-inn and saw the Subaru engine firewall forward
> packages being offered by NSI. It looked and sounded great and I
> talked to
> a fellow who'd been flying an RV-6 on one for a couple years and had good
> luck with it. Alas, the kit was 25 grand!!! I could get new
> Lycoming from
> Van's for around 20 so why spend more time and effort with something that
> was relatively unproven? I think that, for half of the people who by a
> Van's kit, they do it because it is the most bang for the buck and they
> don't have lots of money to spend. So.asking more money than a Van's
> Lycoming for your setup is shooting yourself in the foot. If you
> want lots
> of customers I would say that you'd have to drop the price down
> to around 15
> grand. Why so low? Because an aircraft engine shop in Kamloops BC Canada
> (by the name of Aerosport power) will sell you a good overhauled Lycoming
> 0-320 for around 17 grand (and Bart is unmatched for customer service, I
> can't say enough good things about the guy). An RV will scoot along just
> fine on 160 hp, most of us who buy new from Van's get the 0-360 because
> we're spending a ton of money anyway and it only costs a couple thousand
> more to get the bigger motor). And now that Bart (and several others) are
> selling assembled Superior XP360s for about a grand less than a
> new Lycoming
> from Van's things are even better. Annnnnnd.. I think the Eggenfellner
> Subaru setup also proves this point by having sold so many kits (at a low
> price of 14 grand) as opposed to the NSI package (which I have
> not heard of
> that many sold at a relatively high price of 25 grand).
>
>
> Another problem you'll likely have (with the Van's two place aircraft) is
> that your engine installation is likely to weigh 40% more than a
> 4 Cylinder
> Lycoming. I know there are crazies out there who'll do anything
> and lots of
> folks love to put more hp on but I think that installation is
> going to make
> things just too nose heavy and will reduce useful load and increase stall
> speed. But...you may be able to sell such a thing to RV-10
> builders, maybe
> even to me when I finish my RV-6 and start on a -10. I like the
> idea of the
> V-8 engine sound and prestige and ease of maintenance and
> familiarity, but,
> a Lycoming 0-540 flat 6 is also very smooth and also sounds like
> a V-8 with
> a cam when idling on the ground (and will also likely be purchasable for
> around the same money as your less expensive kit). Kudos for going to so
> much trouble, the 2 place RVs may be the wrong target for mass
> sales but the
> 4 place aircraft from ALL kit manufacturers should be good fodder for you.
> Go for it.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
>
> RV-6A #24907 finish kit
>
>
Message 21
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<5.0.0.25.2.20030815112634.012c12b8@pop.central.cox.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
I have the hall effect sensor on mine. I couldn't remember what connector
it had but I managed to dig up a picture. See here...
http://www.myrv7.com/downloads/mag-pickup.jpg
It looks like a 9-pin female to me.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What kind of connector on LSE-EI system?
<5.0.0.25.2.20030814085912.011ec610@pop.central.cox.net>
<5.0.0.25.2.20030815112634.012c12b8@pop.central.cox.net>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
<dan@rvproject.com>
>
> > Need some assistance from anyone having an LSE-EI system in hand.
> > Have a builder in TX who reports that the bundle going through the
> > firewall is terminated in a MALE connector. He also reports that
> > this is a 9-pin connector. I've been advised by others on the List
> > that it's a 15-pin connector.
> >
> > I'm getting ready to ship some LSE-EI upgrade kits to folks who asked
for
> > them and it would be really nice if I could ship them the right parts.
>
> On my LSE Plasma II system, I used Mouser part #156-1415:
> http://checkoway.com/url/?s=b4d5cb28 It's a 15-pin female connector, and
> that particular part is made by DGS (picked it over AMP because it was
> cheaper).
>
> The confusion over 9-pin vs. 15-pin may be because the Hall Effect sensor
> (which I do not have) does take a 9-pin connector, I believe.
>
> I looked at the LSE web site for online schematics but didn't see any.
Let
> me know if you want me to scan the paper manual schematic for you. Happy
to
> help you out in any way I can, it's the least I can do for all the help
> you've given me!
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | customer service |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <villi.seemann@nordea.com>
Dear listers
The thread about Sky-Tec and their customer support, made me think of this forum
as a lever to Aircraft Spruce.
I have one month ago ordered some parts from Aircraft Spruce (ASS) via e-mail,
and today 33 days later, I have seen none of them.
I live in Denmark, Europe and I accept and expect some delay. The same day as I
ordered the goods, I got an automatic confirmation of order.
Three days later came an automatic note of shipment. Since then I have sent 4-5
emails to "info@aircraftspruce.com" but with only one useless reply, re-stating
the goods was shipped.
Does any of you listers know of a way to communicate (by e-mail preferably) to
the management at ASS, as their "info" address doesn't seem to be backed for anything
other than orders. At least complains are never responded to. I only know
that single e-mail address into ASS, and that is of no good use to me.
Best regards
Villi H. Seemann
Sen. Eng. BSEE
Telephony Team
Infrastructure, Network
Phone (+45) 3333 2101
Cell ph. (+45) 2220 7690
FAX (+45) 3333 1130
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Z-14 with two rear batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N823ms@aol.com
John:
PDF would be fine. I just got finished pre fitting this panel. Wish I
had another pair of hands. Basically in "MY MANUAL" of 1996, the top of the
panel is about 880mm with the center of the panel aligned with the center line
of the fuselage followed by a measurement of 500 mm at center line, level, at
the bottom of the panel. Your ES is newer, and I believe your panel is
different. I have already filled and put two coats of primer on the bottom. I suppose
I could put the final coat. Speaking of paint, what design are you guys
thinking of? I have gone to Lancair Legacy.com to see several designs. The Legacy
seems to have some similar lines, just a shrunk ES. You mentioned BUS placement.
Sitting in the approximate area of the plane today while fitting the panel, I
did think of BUS placement. Thinking "SOLO," my first thought is probably on
the cabin side wall of the passenger side. Reason? With the A/P on, it would
be easier to check a fuse leaning in that direction. The second area would be
to build some kind of center console with fuse rows. As soon as I get my Dynon
EFIS 10, I'll send some photos.
Ed
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: V-8 Airplane power. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Mireley <mireley@msu.edu>
Trampas wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>
> Out of curiosity how much does an LS1 cost? Who supplies them with ECM
> sensors, etc? Also how much does an LS1 weigh?
>
> Thanks
> Trampas
>
Here is a link to the most coplete documentation on a
LSI conversion I've seen.
http://www.v8seabee.com/converstionchart.shtml
The LS6 (405 hp version of the LS1) weighs in at 396 lbs.
The LSI weighs in less that that but I don't have the
number.
Message 25
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custsvc@aircraftspruce.com
| Subject: | Re: customer service |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
I have read horror stories about Aircraft Spruce on the RV List in the past. About
a year ago, one of the RV List members had a problem with ACS and called the
president of the company, Jim Irwin. He reported back to the list that Mr.
Irwin took care of the problem and went "above and beyond" for him. I mention
this, because it swayed me to do business with ACS recently.
I used their web site to order all the parts. I had a copy of their 2002/2003
catalog as well. I was pleasantly surprised to find that most of the items I ordered
had gone DOWN in price compared to the catalog. All the items I ordered
were in stock. Ordering on line let me know that before the order was complete.
I received several email communications to let me know that ACS had received
and processed my order. The order arrived 3 days after it was placed. Everything
was there and "as advertised". Please count me as a satisfied customer. I'll
be placing another order with them this weekend.
FYI I price shopped for all this stuff. ACS has the hands down best prices on
AN hydraulic fittings. The "auto racing" places don't even come close. I have
ordered parts from ACS's competitor Wicks in the past. I've always been happy
with them as well. I placed an order with Wicks the same day I placed my ACS order.
I had numerous problems using Wicks web site to order. I finally gave up
and had to call them to place the order. So ACS scores a #1 with their web site
as well. I hope this all gets straightened out for Mr. Seemann. I suspect that
the problem is with the shipper or customs.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A cockpit systems stuff. I'm finally to the part of this project where the
real fun starts! :-)
Boca Raton, Florida, USA
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <villi.seemann@nordea.com>
>
>Dear listers
>
>The thread about Sky-Tec and their customer support, made me think of this forum
as a lever to Aircraft Spruce.
>I have one month ago ordered some parts from Aircraft Spruce (ASS) via e-mail,
and today 33 days later, I have seen none of them.
>I live in Denmark, Europe and I accept and expect some delay. The same day as
I ordered the goods, I got an automatic confirmation of order.
>Three days later came an automatic note of shipment. Since then I have sent 4-5
emails to "info@aircraftspruce.com" but with only one useless reply, re-stating
the goods was shipped.
>
>Does any of you listers know of a way to communicate (by e-mail preferably) to
the management at ASS, as their "info" address doesn't seem to be backed for
anything other than orders. At least complains are never responded to. I only
know that single e-mail address into ASS, and that is of no good use to me.
>
>
>Best regards
>Villi H. Seemann
>Sen. Eng. BSEE
>Telephony Team
>Infrastructure, Network
>Phone (+45) 3333 2101
>Cell ph. (+45) 2220 7690
>FAX (+45) 3333 1130
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | V-8 Airplane power. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
I will second that. They also have great support after building the engine.
They sent me a free fitting which would have cost me at least 50 bucks!!!
At 03:11 PM 8/20/03 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
><james@nextupventures.com>
>
>Living in Florida should not be a problem with going with Bart.
>
>Only adds a **FEW** dollars shipping charge.
>
>Don't let ~$300 in shipping sway you from getting what is probably one of
>the best engine "buildups" you are going to trust your life to.
>
>There may be GREAT shops in Florida, but it will be hard to find one with
>Bart's *reputation*.
>
>
>James
> ... happy Bart customer in SC
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dean
>> Psiropoulos
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 12:43 AM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: AeroElectric-List: V-8 Airplane power.
>>
>>
>
>
><<<<SNIP>>>>
>
>
>> get in contact with EAA, to find out who the new owner is. Speaking of
>> engines, I'm looking for a good source for one of the new Superior o-360
>> lycoming work-a-likes. I have talked with Bart Lalond at Aerosport power
>> and was VERY impressed. That was when I lived in Oregon and I now live in
>> Florida so I'm wondering if a shop with Aerosport's reputation
>> can be found
>> in the lower 48. Anyone have suggestions? Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Now...the V-8 vendor for RVs is as follows:
>>
>> www.predatoraviation.com
>>
>>
>> My response to predator aviation is as follows:
>>
>>
>> Interesting Chris but I've been down this road a long time ago and:
>>
>>
>> Decided against the alternative engine for many reasons. Most converted
>> auto engines had some problems which I think were partly due to people
>> trying to save weight by leaving off important things like the harmonic
>> balancer, etc. Also airframes are much lighter and have
>> different resonant
>> frequencies than 2 ton steel cars. That results in vibration in
>> things like
>> alternator brackets and causes them to break (even 1/8 thick steel
>> brackets). I commend you on doing a firewall forward package,
>> that makes an
>> alternate engine setup MUCH more appealing. One of the reasons I chose a
>> Lycoming was because Van's has a firewall forward kit, cowl and
>> motor mount
>> available and I didn't want to spend any more time trying to make those
>> things on my own. Then there was always getting the thing to behave once
>> you got everything installed. Invariably I would hear of many
>> more hours of
>> fiddling with the installation to get it to work satisfactorily.
>>
>>
>> Your setup has two major problems that I see. One is weight and the other
>> is cost. One of the biggest reasons I wanted to do an auto
>> engine setup was
>> because auto engines are extremely cheap (I hated the thought of
>> spending 20
>> grand on 60 year old engine technology that was basically a Volkswagen on
>> steroids) even with a gearbox. Also auto technology is WAY WAY
>> ahead of 60
>> year old Lycoming technology and overhauls are simple and cheap. I had
>> second thoughts about doing the Lycoming a couple years ago when I was at
>> the Northwest EAA fly-inn and saw the Subaru engine firewall forward
>> packages being offered by NSI. It looked and sounded great and I
>> talked to
>> a fellow who'd been flying an RV-6 on one for a couple years and had good
>> luck with it. Alas, the kit was 25 grand!!! I could get new
>> Lycoming from
>> Van's for around 20 so why spend more time and effort with something that
>> was relatively unproven? I think that, for half of the people who by a
>> Van's kit, they do it because it is the most bang for the buck and they
>> don't have lots of money to spend. So.asking more money than a Van's
>> Lycoming for your setup is shooting yourself in the foot. If you
>> want lots
>> of customers I would say that you'd have to drop the price down
>> to around 15
>> grand. Why so low? Because an aircraft engine shop in Kamloops BC Canada
>> (by the name of Aerosport power) will sell you a good overhauled Lycoming
>> 0-320 for around 17 grand (and Bart is unmatched for customer service, I
>> can't say enough good things about the guy). An RV will scoot along just
>> fine on 160 hp, most of us who buy new from Van's get the 0-360 because
>> we're spending a ton of money anyway and it only costs a couple thousand
>> more to get the bigger motor). And now that Bart (and several others) are
>> selling assembled Superior XP360s for about a grand less than a
>> new Lycoming
>> from Van's things are even better. Annnnnnd.. I think the Eggenfellner
>> Subaru setup also proves this point by having sold so many kits (at a low
>> price of 14 grand) as opposed to the NSI package (which I have
>> not heard of
>> that many sold at a relatively high price of 25 grand).
>>
>>
>> Another problem you'll likely have (with the Van's two place aircraft) is
>> that your engine installation is likely to weigh 40% more than a
>> 4 Cylinder
>> Lycoming. I know there are crazies out there who'll do anything
>> and lots of
>> folks love to put more hp on but I think that installation is
>> going to make
>> things just too nose heavy and will reduce useful load and increase stall
>> speed. But...you may be able to sell such a thing to RV-10
>> builders, maybe
>> even to me when I finish my RV-6 and start on a -10. I like the
>> idea of the
>> V-8 engine sound and prestige and ease of maintenance and
>> familiarity, but,
>> a Lycoming 0-540 flat 6 is also very smooth and also sounds like
>> a V-8 with
>> a cam when idling on the ground (and will also likely be purchasable for
>> around the same money as your less expensive kit). Kudos for going to so
>> much trouble, the 2 place RVs may be the wrong target for mass
>> sales but the
>> 4 place aircraft from ALL kit manufacturers should be good fodder for you.
>> Go for it.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Dean Psiropoulos
>>
>> RV-6A #24907 finish kit
>>
>>
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: customer service |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RSwanson" <rswan19@comcast.net>
Don't know if it'll help, but try this:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/mailcustsvc.php?
R
----- Original Message -----
From: <villi.seemann@nordea.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: customer service
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <villi.seemann@nordea.com>
>
> Dear listers
>
> The thread about Sky-Tec and their customer support, made me think of
this forum as a lever to Aircraft Spruce.
> I have one month ago ordered some parts from Aircraft Spruce (ASS) via
e-mail, and today 33 days later, I have seen none of them.
> I live in Denmark, Europe and I accept and expect some delay. The same
day as I ordered the goods, I got an automatic confirmation of order.
> Three days later came an automatic note of shipment. Since then I have
sent 4-5 emails to "info@aircraftspruce.com" but with only one useless
reply, re-stating the goods was shipped.
>
> Does any of you listers know of a way to communicate (by e-mail
preferably) to the management at ASS, as their "info" address doesn't seem
to be backed for anything other than orders. At least complains are never
responded to. I only know that single e-mail address into ASS, and that is
of no good use to me.
>
>
> Best regards
> Villi H. Seemann
> Sen. Eng. BSEE
> Telephony Team
> Infrastructure, Network
> Phone (+45) 3333 2101
> Cell ph. (+45) 2220 7690
> FAX (+45) 3333 1130
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | customer service |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
> Does any of you listers know of a way to communicate (by e-mail
> preferably) to the management at ASS, as their "info" address
> doesn't seem to be backed for anything other than orders. At
> least complains are never responded to. I only know that single
> e-mail address into ASS, and that is of no good use to me.
Interesting that you should mention this now Villi. Jim Irwin, President of
ASS, is currently "firefighting" customer service problems raised by
builders on the Cozy mail list. I don't know what you're building, and I
don't know his direct email address, but I'll forward you're message to the
list where I know he's watching. Hopefully you'll get a response and a
resolution.
Regards,
John Slade
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Kilovac 200 Master contactor was |
combining a PM and conventional alternator
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
James,
Could you tell me more about your master contactor? Where did you purchase it?
I found this using Google:
http://www.nucletron.de/nuvt/pdf/EV200.pdf
Is this the correct model? How much did you pay for this and who supplied it?
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A cockpit systems stuff
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comcast.net>
>
>snipped
>
>The main contactor will be a Kilovac 200, which only draws 115 ma steady state,
and thus does not need to be turned off to save power if I lose an alternator.
It continues to serve the traditional isolation role and is labeled 'master
A'.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: combining a PM and conventional |
alternator
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:17 AM 8/20/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster"
><jmfpublic@comcast.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>I have a Jabiru 3300 engine with a 20 amp PM alternator to which I have
>added a B&C spline drive 20 amp alternator. This latter unit may not put
>out 20 amps directly driven from the crank, but it will certainly do 10-
>12 amps which will be plenty. I plan to use a Z-14 type of system with
>the PM alternator connected with the overvoltage crowbar and s702-1
>relay. This will be the main alternator in the Z14 diagram, and be
>connected to the starting battery and lighting system.
>
>The B&C spline drive unit will be connected to the e-bus and a 5 amp-hour
>battery. It will have a LR-3 controller. I am committed to this
>arrangement for weight and space reasons.
>
>The main contactor will be a Kilovac 200, which only draws 115 ma steady
>state, and thus does not need to be turned off to save power if I lose an
>alternator. It continues to serve the traditional isolation role and is
>labeled 'master A'. The B&C alternator will be wired as depicted in Z14
>"aux alt" position, but the S701-1 aux battery contactor will be replaced
>with a S702-1. I am considering other alterations, too.
>
>Questions:
>
>1. Since I will not cross-feed the batteries for starting, I know that I
>can replace the big S701-2 cross-feed with a smaller S702-1 relay.
Do you mean S704-1 relay? S702-1 is a starter contactor that draws LOTS
of coil amps.
> Could I get rid of the relay altogether and just use a cross-connect
> switch?
sure . . .
> No more than 10 amps would be drawn by the e-bus at any time, and
> probably much less. I'm fairly confidant that this change should be OK.
>
>2. Could I replace this cross-connect switch with a diode, and get rid of
>pilot intervention completely? I'm not worried about voltage spikes on
>the e-bus, just voltage sags which reset the EFIS. I will have low
>voltage annunciation for both batteries. I can't think of any situation
>where I would not want the main bus to contribute to the e-bus if the PM
>[main] alternator is working, or if the main battery still had power if
>the small e-bus 5 amp-hour unit runs low. I don't want the main bus to
>draw from the small e-bus battery, and the diode fulfills that need.
>However, if the PM alternator fails, the B&C unit could contribute to the
>main bus, and a cross-connect switch, in parallel with the diode, could
>fill that role. I'm not at all sure how to analyze this choice.
Are you making this too complicated? How about the all-electric airplane
on a budget. The SD-20 alternator driven directly from your crankshaft
will be good for 40A. I'd make this the main alternator. Hook the PM
alternator up as a standby and single battery changed out every two years
max. You could stay with a much less expensive S701-1 battery contactor,
power to keep it closed is not an issue.
>3. Should the PM (main) alternator be connected to the battery side of
>the Kilovac contactor as in Z13, or to the load side as in Z14? It does
>have its own pilot controlled disconnect relay in the form of the
>S702-1. If it is on the battery side of the contactor, I can shut off the
>nav lights, strobe, landing lights with just the Master A switch, while
>still getting power from the PM alternator. I'm lost on this question.
Given what I understand your system right now, if it were
my airplane, I'd go with Z-13 and keep it simple. This
configuration gives you reliability most twin engine
certified ships don't have. Just keep a fresh, 17 a.h.
battery in place and you're set to go.
Bob . . .
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Cable |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:43 AM 8/20/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
>
> If I were using this material, I think I would solder
> the joints. Gas-tight with no metal being mashed. Agreed . . .
> "relaxing" of any metal under pressure is alloy dependent . . .
> I don't think we worry much about thousands of riveted joints
> in aluminum structures getting loose due to viscosity of the
> metal.
>
> I'll poke around the AMP application notes and position papers
> on aluminum conductors. If ANYONE knows all the details, it
> has to be AMP.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>Bob Eric,
>
>
>I've been following this thread with interest when possible. I'm
>interested 'cuz I'm building a kitfox with a 28 AH RG battery in the tail
>to balance a Lyc O-235 engine. The kit came with a 4 AWG copper wire to
>run from the battery contactor to the starter contactor (about 17
>feet!) recommends grounding through the steel frame. Based on The
>Connection a short discussion with Tim Hedding at BC, I'vedecided to run
>a separate ground wire but it was tough 'cuz I'm trying everywhere to hold
>my weight down as much as possible. Iwould really like touse CCA wire but,
>regardless would like to be sure I'm using wire of sufficient size without
>over-doing it. I'm running a Sky-Tec Starter (pretty sure it's PM) single
>electronic ignition with a 28 AH RG battery. It is about 17 feet from
>master to starter contactor and about another4 or 5 feet to the starter.
>Assuming copper wire, could you please recommend a minimum wire size for
>both the positive negative leads? Any other comments ar!
>e welcome too.
2AWG or it's equal in CCA wire (1/0) is recommended. How's
your weight and balance look if you have a 15# battery?
You can save 13# in battery and use part of the savings
to pay for taking battery (-) up to the firewall ground
stud on it's own CCA wire. Overall weight savings would
be substantial as long as you don't NEED more ballast
at the battery location.
Bob . . .
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: customer service |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:35 PM 8/20/2003 +0300, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <villi.seemann@nordea.com>
>
>Dear listers
>
>The thread about Sky-Tec and their customer support, made me think of this
>forum as a lever to Aircraft Spruce.
>I have one month ago ordered some parts from Aircraft Spruce (ASS) via
>e-mail, and today 33 days later, I have seen none of them.
>I live in Denmark, Europe and I accept and expect some delay. The same day
>as I ordered the goods, I got an automatic confirmation of order.
>Three days later came an automatic note of shipment. Since then I have
>sent 4-5 emails to "info@aircraftspruce.com" but with only one useless
>reply, re-stating the goods was shipped.
>
>Does any of you listers know of a way to communicate (by e-mail
>preferably) to the management at ASS, as their "info" address doesn't seem
>to be backed for anything other than orders. At least complains are never
>responded to. I only know that single e-mail address into ASS, and that is
>of no good use to me.
What e-mail address have you been using for them? How did they
say your package was shipped? Did they send you a tracking number?
Have you tried their customer service phone number? 800-861-3192
If you're getting automated e-mail responses, then I think you're
sending your e-mail to an address specifically set up for order
status inquiries. Try custsvc@aircraftspruce.com for contact
with an individual or as last resort, the 800 phone number
above.
If your order shipped, then they'll not have any way to
know where the parts are except to query the shipper's
computer using a tracking number. I've not ordered from
Aircraft Spruce lately but I would be surprised if they
didn't send you a carrier name, URL for package tracking
and a tracking number. If you did receive this data, then
you need to take it up with the shipper. Once confirmed
that the package is lost, the shipper will pay you for
it and you can place a new order with Aircraft Spruce.
Bob . . .
Message 33
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| Subject: | customer service |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Try custsvc@aircraftspruce.com and if that does not get results, contact me
off list with your order number (and whatever it is you'd like me to relay
to ACS on your behalf) at robh@hyperion-ef.com and I'll call their local
number to see what I can learn.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
villi.seemann@nordea.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: customer service
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <villi.seemann@nordea.com>
Dear listers
The thread about Sky-Tec and their customer support, made me think of this
forum as a lever to Aircraft Spruce.
I have one month ago ordered some parts from Aircraft Spruce (ASS) via
e-mail, and today 33 days later, I have seen none of them.
I live in Denmark, Europe and I accept and expect some delay. The same day
as I ordered the goods, I got an automatic confirmation of order.
Three days later came an automatic note of shipment. Since then I have sent
4-5 emails to "info@aircraftspruce.com" but with only one useless reply,
re-stating the goods was shipped.
Does any of you listers know of a way to communicate (by e-mail preferably)
to the management at ASS, as their "info" address doesn't seem to be backed
for anything other than orders. At least complains are never responded to. I
only know that single e-mail address into ASS, and that is of no good use to
me.
Best regards
Villi H. Seemann
Sen. Eng. BSEE
Telephony Team
Infrastructure, Network
Phone (+45) 3333 2101
Cell ph. (+45) 2220 7690
FAX (+45) 3333 1130
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: customer service |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Byrne" <jcbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
Try fun_plane@HOTMAIL.COM
That will go direct to Jim Irwin the boss.
Chris Byrne
Message 35
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| Subject: | customer service |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
Jim Irwin's email address is fun_plane@hotmail.com
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Cable |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Bob Eric,
I've been following this thread with interest when possible. I'm
interested 'cuz I'm building a kitfox with a 28 AH RG battery in the tail
to balance a Lyc O-235 engine. The kit came with a 4 AWG copper wire to
run from the battery contactor to the starter contactor (about 17
feet!) recommends grounding through the steel frame. Based on The
Connection a short discussion with Tim Hedding at BC, I'vedecided to run
a separate ground wire but it was tough 'cuz I'm trying everywhere to hold
my weight down as much as possible. Iwould really like touse CCA wire but,
regardless would like to be sure I'm using wire of sufficient size without
over-doing it. I'm running a Sky-Tec Starter (pretty sure it's PM) single
electronic ignition with a 28 AH RG battery. It is about 17 feet from
master to starter contactor and about another4 or 5 feet to the starter.
Assuming copper wire, could you please recommend a minimum wire size for
both the positive negative leads? Any other comments ar!
e welcome too.
2AWG or it's equal in CCA wire (1/0) is recommended. How's
your weight and balance look if you have a 15# battery?
You can save 13# in battery and use part of the savings
to pay for taking battery (-) up to the firewall ground
stud on it's own CCA wire. Overall weight savings would
be substantial as long as you don't NEED more ballast
at the battery location.
Bob . . .
I would LOVE to use a lighter battery but I've been told by sources I believe to
be reliable that I can't know the WB situation until I am fully covered painted.
Is that your understanding too or is there a way I can figure it out ahead
of time?
As Skystar sent me the heavy battery told me toplace it as far back in thetail
as possibleI would guess shaving 13 lbs off the weight would put me out of the
CG envelope. However, I have gone to great lengths to keep weight out of the
airplane and especially out of the nose(e.g. light weight starter alternator,
electronic ignition minimized length of propellor extension) In the event that
I am able to use the lighter battery, could you post the make model of the
one you're thinking of?
Thank You,
Grant
======================================================================
<a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMKENUS/2746??PS=">MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month.
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: customer service |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
Bob, as far as I know you cannot call an 1-8xx number from outside the
US/Canada.
Finn
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>I live in Denmark, Europe and I accept and expect some delay.
>>
> Have you tried their customer service phone number? 800-861-3192
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Audio panel, of sorts... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joel Harding <cajole76@ispwest.com>
Bob,
Would it work to hook multiple audio sources to the comm audio in and
use resistors to balance the individual volume levels?
Joel Harding
On Wednesday, Aug 20, 2003, at 11:23 America/Denver, Robert L.
Nuckolls, III wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 08:15 PM 8/19/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
>> <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>>
>> Thanks Bob. How would I determine the size for the capacitor?
>
> 10uf or larger, 16v or larger. Electrolytics of any style.
> You can get some quite small devices from Radio Shack.
> Cat/No. 272-1346
>
> (+)side of cap faces the intercom's mic connnection.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Audio panel, of sorts... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:53 PM 8/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joel Harding <cajole76@ispwest.com>
>
>Bob,
>Would it work to hook multiple audio sources to the comm audio in and
>use resistors to balance the individual volume levels?
>
>Joel Harding
To some degree. You can see if this works for you. You
won't hurt anything by trying.
Bob . . .
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: customer service |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:05 PM 8/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
>
>Bob, as far as I know you cannot call an 1-8xx number from outside the
>US/Canada.
>
>Finn
Okay, their website reports an international number as:
International: +909-372-9555
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 41
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| Subject: | What kind of connector on LSE-EI system? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:29 PM 8/20/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach"
><phil@petrasoft.net>
>
>I have the hall effect sensor on mine. I couldn't remember what connector
>it had but I managed to dig up a picture. See here...
>
>http://www.myrv7.com/downloads/mag-pickup.jpg
>
>It looks like a 9-pin female to me.
Yup . . . me too. Thanks for the data!
Bob . . .
Message 42
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| Subject: | EV200 contactor source |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jmfpublic@comcast.net
Charlie Kuss:
The link to the manufacturer is http://www.kilovac.com/general.news.item.asp?
id=330. If this does not work, just use kilovac.com and start from the first
page. The spec sheet is impressive, and at the end gives you the precise model
number that you need--I've listed it in the next paragraph.
The distributor is http://onlinecomponents.com and you search for EV200. The
model number that you need is EV200 AAANA, which has a 9-36 volt coil, and no
auxillary switch to indicate "on". This is about $85 quantity one. If you do
want an auxillary switch, the model number is EV200 HAANA, cost $91 each.
Jim Foerster
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