Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:25 AM - Antenna tuning (Fergus Kyle)
2. 06:40 AM - Master switch warning light/buzzer (Fergus Kyle)
3. 07:22 AM - master warning buzzer (Gary Casey)
4. 07:32 AM - Hall sensor problem??? (Charles Brame)
5. 07:44 AM - Re: Internally regulated alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:58 AM - Re: master warning buzzer ()
7. 07:58 AM - Re: expanded scale voltmeter and loadmeter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 08:17 AM - Re: server back up . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 09:14 AM - aeroflash strobes with Nova X-Pac 904 (Sigma Eta Aero)
10. 09:46 AM - Re: master warning buzzer (RVEIGHTA@aol.com)
11. 09:51 AM - tri-positon switch location (Bob Kuc)
12. 10:11 AM - Re: master warning buzzer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 10:15 AM - Re: aeroflash strobes with Nova X-Pac 904 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 10:23 AM - Turn Coordinator Substitute (brucem@olypen.com)
15. 10:42 AM - Re: tri-positon switch location (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 10:53 AM - Re: Rotax 912 and ACS ignition switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 10:55 AM - Re: noise from a stereo, Altrak altitude (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 11:05 AM - walkman adapter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 11:06 AM - Re: Hall sensor problem??? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 11:27 AM - Re: Re: Wire and Fuse Size for E-bus (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 11:58 AM - Re: noise from a stereo, Altrak altitude hold (mstewart@qa.butler.com)
22. 12:09 PM - Re: Wiring Nulites (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 12:10 PM - Re: Picking a new battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 12:35 PM - Re: Re: Wire and Fuse Size for E-bus (follow up) (Dick Jordan)
25. 12:37 PM - Re: noise from a stereo, Altrak altitude (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 12:49 PM - less expensive power supply with Aeroflash heads (Sigma Eta Aero)
27. 01:18 PM - Re: tri-positon switch location (Bob Kuc)
28. 01:46 PM - Re: site back up . . . (Lockamy, Jack L NA)
29. 02:04 PM - Re: aeroflash strobes with Nova X-Pac 904 (Bill Hibbing)
30. 02:54 PM - Re: less expensive power supply with Aeroflash heads (LarryRobertHelming)
31. 02:57 PM - Re: less expensive power supply with Aeroflash heads (Sigma Eta Aero)
32. 03:27 PM - MAC elevator trim rocker switch (EddyFernan@aol.com)
33. 05:19 PM - Re: less expensive power supply with Aeroflash (Tom Brusehaver)
34. 06:11 PM - Re: Rotax 912 and ACS ignition switch (Duncan McBride)
35. 06:20 PM - Re: MAC elevator trim rocker switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
36. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: Wire and Fuse Size for E-bus (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
37. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: Wire and Fuse Size for E-bus (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
38. 06:58 PM - Re: tri-positon switch location (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
39. 07:20 PM - : MAC elevator trim rocker switch (Denis Walsh)
40. 08:01 PM - Re: tri-positon switch location (Bob Kuc)
41. 08:51 PM - Re: Re: Wire and Fuse Size for E-bus (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
42. 08:53 PM - Re: Rotax 912 and ACS ignition switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
43. 09:02 PM - Re: tri-positon switch location (Robinson, Chad)
44. 10:00 PM - Antenna Placement (Brian Reiter)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Rob,
If you found a Ham radio shop, you might be able to find the
local Amateur Radio Club. Since making and researching antennas is one of
the few remaining skills available to hams, they usually are well equipped
to measure them. As you know they are professionals who do not charge for
their services, so you should be able to attract the 'old guard' to your
project. If one accepts (our gang does), he will doubtless bring along an
antenna analyzer which gives much more accurate assessment at even low
powers and VHF.
They CAN be most helpful and probably curious as well, so no
commercial mumbo-jumbo or obfuscation.
.......for your consideration.
Ferg
PS: A professional is one who does his best according to his training,
experience and conscience. One who does it for pay (or what his boss says)
is a "commercial".
Message 2
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| Subject: | Master switch warning light/buzzer |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Time: 01:19:35 AM PST US
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer
From: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Walt Hi!
> Another question is do you have any suggestions or recommendations for an
> externally mounted power plug to be used to jump start an a/c with low
> battery?
I've fitted a Aux. Power on port side of Aircraft viewable from P1 seat.
It's from a Race Car shop. Based around lightweight Plastic Socket with
matching input Plug with pullout handle. 2 versions. 50A and 175 Amp
Will carry 'jump' leads in A/C so whenever onboard power feels lazy I can
get a jump start from just about any 12V device. I went for 50Amp.
Cost about $25 for 50A and $40 for 175A
In an effort to keep it simple I positioned to clearly see connections still
made to outside world and in fact can reach forward and disconnect from
Cabin. Regards Gerry
Walt,
I did the same as Gerry, with a GP fitting just ahead of the
cockpit, port side, so that pilot can supervise if prop is hot (bound to
occur).
I made use of Bob Nuckolls' GPU design because over here the
PIper plug is available at many FBOs. I can also reach out from the seat and
disconnect if needed because it's so near the prop.
Good luck
Ferg
Message 3
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| Subject: | master warning buzzer |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
<<any ideas about a cheap/easy solution to the problem of leaving the
master on and running down the battery? I just did it today, and it's a
pain in the posterior.>>
Why not get a cheap beeper from Radio Shack and hook it across the
low-voltage warning light? Get a fairly weak one so it won't be audible in
flight, but will be with everything off.
Gary Casey
Message 4
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| Subject: | Hall sensor problem??? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame <charleyb@earthlink.net>
Problem solved. Well, at least the problem went away. Can't say I solved
anything.
I disassembled and reassembled the Hall sensor, the fat wire it is
supposed to read, plus all the power circuit connections and the VM-1000
connections. No help.
I finally looked at my power supply and wondered if the leads were too
light for the 7-8 amp load. I made a new set of leads using 14 AWG wire
and, VIOLA, my VM-1000 started to work right. I had been losing about
1.5 volts between the power supply and the VM-1000 volt sensing, plus
the VM-1000 was showing no amps. With the new leads, I lose only 3
tenths of a volt, and the ammeter is showing a robust 6 amps with my
instrument lights, avionics, instruments and the battery on line. I can
assume the power supply leads were the problem the whole time.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Internally regulated alternator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:44 AM 9/4/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan@hotmail.com>
>
>Bob,
>I have been carefully studying your internally regulated alternator
>protection diagram (Z-24), and after I incorporate it into Z-11, I think I
>see no less than 5 (albeit related) protections against a malfunctioning
>alternator.
>
>If I have it right, I see:
>
>1. 22AWG fusible link
This is protection only for the short piece of wire
that extends the main bus up to the 5A breaker.
>2. 5A circuit breaker, connected to
This is to satisfy the design goals of the crowbar
OV module for an easy to trip, easy to reset response
to a dead-short presented by the OV module.
>3. Over-Voltage "corwbar" module
The brains of the ov protection system.
>4. O-V disconnect relay
Necessary because failures within an internally
regulated alternator cannot be mitigated by simply
shutting down power to the control line to the
back of the alternator. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/FAQ/Internal_Regulator/
>5. ANL60 current limiter.
This device protects ships system from hard faults
within the alternator . . . shorted pairs of diodes
in the rectifier. This is extremely rare. Automobiles
don't include this protection and the incidence of
vehicle fires due to shorted alternator diodes is
virtually unheard of . . . Diodes are so much more
reliable than when alternators first came onto the
scene that I suspect there will be a statistical
justification for leaving this item out of the
system in future designs. However, it's not expensive
in comparison to the overall cost of the airplane
and if it were my airplane, it would be present even
though there's almost a certainty that it would never
be called upon to operate over the lifetime of the
airplane. It's probably more likely that your
b-lead wire will get faulted to ground than having
diodes go bad.
>I wonder of you could explane the scenario in which each of these devices is
>called into action.
>
>And then I have 2 other questions:
>What could an automotive voltage regulator (if added to the circuit) give
>as far as protection ?
There is nothing a regulator can do to "protect" . . .
it just regulates. If it decides to quit regulating,
then other features are provided to protect against
regulator failure.
>If one has this regulator, Could one then eliminate any other devices ?
The b-lead contactor can go away if the alternator is
externally regulated.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: master warning buzzer |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <jimk36@comcast.net>
The cheapest, easiest solution is simply to always leave your beacon or
strobes on. You have to really be asleep not to notice when you're out of
the airplane. It's saved me from leaving the master on a couple of times.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: master warning buzzer
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey"
<glcasey@adelphia.net>
>
> <<any ideas about a cheap/easy solution to the problem of leaving the
> master on and running down the battery? I just did it today, and it's a
> pain in the posterior.>>
>
> Why not get a cheap beeper from Radio Shack and hook it across the
> low-voltage warning light? Get a fairly weak one so it won't be audible
in
> flight, but will be with everything off.
>
> Gary Casey
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: expanded scale voltmeter and loadmeter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:40 AM 9/4/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John R <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>
>Why can't you just do a simple zener voltage dropping circuit? Yes it
>would be slightly non-linear, but close enough to serve very
>effectively, I should think - like:
>
>Ground ---> A <--10v Zener---> B <--- 1K-Ohm ----> C <--- Bus+
>
>The bus voltage goes across points A and C; a 5-volt voltmeter goes
>across the 1K resistor (B and C)... if you want to use a direct-reading
>milliammeter (Full-Scale=1mA) rather than a voltmeter, just put a 5K
>resistor together in series with the milliammeter across points B and C
>above - or if you want to be able to calibrate it, use a 4.7K and
>500-ohm trimpot instead of the 5K.If you're using a 50-uA meter, use a
>100K resistor (or 90K + 20K trimpot) in series with the microammeter
>across points B and C.
>
>Wouldn't this be a lot simpler and get the job done?
This has been done but zeners are not precision regulators.
They have a spread of 5% on tolerance, pretty high temperature
drift characteristics and high internal impedance. There are
more precise voltage reference chips like the LM185 series device
from National. Figure 7-18 of the AeroElectric Connection describes
how these devices can be integrated with an analog panel meter
and some resistors to generate an accurate and stable expanded
scale voltmeter.
>-John R.
>P.S.: If you want to go all solid state with a bargraph, a fairly simple
>circuit can be made around the LM3914 - as a matter of fact I believe I
>still have a hundred or so left over from a PC power supply monitor I
>used to manufacture - if you want to design a kit around it, I'll donate
>them to the cause (and yes they're still in their tubes)...
This is a really handy chip. If I were to consider a non-microprocessor
approach to this task, a pair of them designed to drive a 20
LED bar graph would give you 5% resolution over the range of 10 to 15
volts or 0.25 volt steps. This would duplicate the measurement range
of the product I offered. For slightly better resolution, the
display range could be compressed to 10.5 to 14.5 volts for 0.2
volt steps.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: server back up . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
I am gratified at the many offers of support for both
expenses and 'net connected hardware that I've received
in response to the situation on our San Diego server
loads. I'm reluctant to put out the hat for financial
support because a major connectivity link for this
service is based on Matt Dralle's systems at matronics.com
I don't want to siphon off any support that could be
funneled into Matt's invaluable support of the OBAM
aircraft community. A number of folks have offered 'net
connected drive space. I'm considering several options for
new digs on the 'net for all or part of the 'Connection's
files. It seems likely that we'll have a practical
solution within the next few days.
In the mean time, if anyone has information support dollars
burning a hole in their pockets, don't forget Matt sets his
hat out once every year.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | aeroflash strobes with Nova X-Pac 904 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero@yahoo.com>
Will the Nova X-Pac 904 work with the Aeroflash strobe/nav/pos units? Here's the
specs for each...
Each Aeroflash power supply (designed for use with their strobes) has a 2.7 amp
draw (two power supplies) and the output is supposed to be 10 joules each.
The X-Pac 904 has an output energy of 80 joules (total) and the output power when
divided between two heads is 45 watts per head. Now the weird thing is that
there is a note under the power output specs that says Note: This supply reduces
output power when only two outlets are activated. Does this mean it actually
delivers less than the 45 watts per head???
It appears that the X-Pac 904 has a little more kick than the Aeroflash units.
Question is can the Aeroflash strobes handle the extra power? I dont know much
about strobe construction and whether the materials differ that much between
the different units. The Nova supply is supposed to work well with the Whelan
strobes but can the Aeroflash strobes handle it? Anybody compared the physical
properties of the Whelans and the Aeroflashes?
If this combination works it might offer an intermediate brightness between the
two strobes at a much lower total cost than either.
Thanks!
Joa
---------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: master warning buzzer |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RVEIGHTA@aol.com
Jim, I've been doing exactly what you suggest - leave the strobe light on -
and it's saved my battery a time or two already!
Thanks, Walt Shipley
Message 11
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| Subject: | tri-positon switch location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1@tampabay.rr.com>
I am looking for a tri-position switch. A left/right/push type switch that
is momentary. Anyone have any links on where to find it? I looked in the
digi-key catalogue and could not find one there. Also, does anyone have a
good link to an 8x1 lcd display?
Thanks
Bob
---
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: master warning buzzer |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:05 AM 9/4/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <jimk36@comcast.net>
>
>The cheapest, easiest solution is simply to always leave your beacon or
>strobes on. You have to really be asleep not to notice when you're out of
>the airplane. It's saved me from leaving the master on a couple of times.
>
>Jim
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
>To: "Aeroelectric-List" <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: master warning buzzer
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey"
><glcasey@adelphia.net>
> >
> > <<any ideas about a cheap/easy solution to the problem of leaving the
> > master on and running down the battery? I just did it today, and it's a
> > pain in the posterior.>>
> >
> > Why not get a cheap beeper from Radio Shack and hook it across the
> > low-voltage warning light? Get a fairly weak one so it won't be audible
> > in flight, but will be with everything off.
> >
> > Gary Casey
The low votlage warning light on an LR-3 is pretty bright
and would indeed be flashing away at you if the battery
master were left on (as would the low voltage warning
offered from our catalog). LV warning watches the main
bus and would not let you know if the e-bus alternate
feed switch were left on . . .
Another alternative: If you have an oil pressure
switch with single pole, double throw contacts like
that offered by B&C, you can wire one throw for hour meter
control, the other throw for LOW OILP warning light. Run
the light from the e-bus and put the buzzer across
the light as Gary suggests. The illuminated oil
pressure light + buzzer would let you know if anything
were left on . . . including the e-bus alternate feed
switch.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: aeroflash strobes with Nova X-Pac 904 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:13 AM 9/4/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero@yahoo.com>
>
>
>Will the Nova X-Pac 904 work with the Aeroflash strobe/nav/pos
>units? Here's the specs for each...
>
>
>Each Aeroflash power supply (designed for use with their strobes) has a
>2.7 amp draw (two power supplies) and the output is supposed to be 10
>joules each.
>
>
>The X-Pac 904 has an output energy of 80 joules (total) and the output
>power when divided between two heads is 45 watts per head. Now the weird
>thing is that there is a note under the power output specs that says
>Note: This supply reduces output power when only two outlets are
>activated. Does this mean it actually delivers less than the 45 watts per
>head???
Probably. energy is stored on capacitors. One capacitor per
flash tube. If you disconnect one flashtube, the capacitor
associated with that tube no longer gets discharged and the
input energy to the system goes down. One might parallel
two outputs to a single flash tube but be cautious here.
The flash tubes have to dump out a lot of heat that is
proportional to the average power. Hooking a 10J tube to a
higher output power supply will certainly reduce tube life
and could cause it to fail rapidly due to overheating.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Turn Coordinator Substitute |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: brucem@olypen.com
The FAA has seen the light. The recently released AC 91-75 (available at
www.faa.gov) shows how a second attitude indicator may be substituted for the
gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator required for IFR under FAR 91.205(d)(3). The
catch is the need for a power source independent of the one feeding the primary
AI. If electric, the substitute AI will cost $1200 more than a TC or T&B. Now
that puts a price on one's partial panel comfort level!
FWIW, Bruce
McGregor
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using OlyPen's WebMail.
http://www.olypen.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: tri-positon switch location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:46 PM 9/4/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1@tampabay.rr.com>
>
>I am looking for a tri-position switch. A left/right/push type switch that
>is momentary. Anyone have any links on where to find it? I looked in the
>digi-key catalogue and could not find one there. Also, does anyone have a
>good link to an 8x1 lcd display?
I presume you're describing an (on)-off-(on) offered by
B&C as their S700-2-7 at:
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?11X358218
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 and ACS ignition switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:37 AM 9/2/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero@yahoo.com>
>
>
>For wiring a Rotax 912 with the ACS A-510-2 switch (Page 381 in Spruce
>catalog) do any of the terminals have to be jumpered (IOW is either of the
>magnetos a retard breaker or have impulse coupling type features)?
>
>
>Also, I assume that you would run the shielding from both mags to the
>ground terminal (term 5) and then NOT run a ground from this to the
>firewall grounding block (but ground each cable shield individually at the
>ignition block), right?
Yes, wire exactly as shown in Figure Z-16
>The only thing that cornfuses me about this single point grounding
>technique is that when the engine is running the mags are ungrounded
>anyway so why does it make a difference?
Single point grounding for noise control
is not related to ignition control. You want
to use the shields as ground for the switch and
ground shields at the engine end only.
>Also, I assume I should use the diode supplied with the ACS switch (when
>wiring per Z-16)?
No, the reasoning behind that diode is bogus.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spikecatcher.pdf
Put a diode across your contactor coil if it's not already
there. The diode supplied with the switch will be fine.
Adding it across the switch per ACS instructions adds
no value.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: noise from a stereo, Altrak altitude |
hold
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:42 PM 9/2/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com
>
>Hi Folks,
>
>Well I have this annoying noise in my RV. First let me say that I wired this
>thing BEFORE I knew anything about grounding so my airframe is my ground.
>(DONT SHOOT ME PLEASE)
>
>After 800 hours I installed the Altrak altitude hold. When it is engaged, I
>get this morris code noise in my headsets, only when the stereo is powered
>on. The noise is definitely the stepper motor servo making the noise. The
>servo is installed in the fuse in the tail cone, far from the stereo mounted
>on my panel.
>
>I have tried shielding the wires coming from servo, I tried moving the servo
>wires to the other side of the fuse as they make their way to the panel.
>
>Is there something bizarre about Stereos that amplify noise in this
>frequency range. I also tried a Rat Shack RF choke on the stereo power line.
You're going to have to deduce the propagation
mode for getting the noise into your audio system.
Have you read the chapter on noise in the 'Connection?
Adding ground almost never fixes and can make
noise problems works. You need to do the homework
and ferret out the noise path before you're going
to be able to fix it.
Bob . . .
Message 18
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:19 PM 9/4/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Greg B (parism70@yahoo.fr) on Thursday, September 4, 2003 at 06:19:04
>
>Thursday, September 4, 2003
>
>Greg B
>
>,
>Email: parism70@yahoo.fr
>Comments/Questions: I'm thinking of buiding an adaptor to be able to
>listen to a walkman while flying. For this i should have on one side a
>PJ-068 male and on the other side a 3.5mm stereo jack. Do you know how to
>connect and if there are any technical issues with doing this. Thanks for
>your fast reply
Try http://216.55.140.222/temp/WalkmanAdapter.gif
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Well considered and technically elegant answers to
all of your questions are waiting for you there. Also,
check out the downloadable materials at
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Hall sensor problem??? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:32 AM 9/4/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame
><charleyb@earthlink.net>
>
>Problem solved. Well, at least the problem went away. Can't say I solved
>anything.
>
>I disassembled and reassembled the Hall sensor, the fat wire it is
>supposed to read, plus all the power circuit connections and the VM-1000
>connections. No help.
>
>I finally looked at my power supply and wondered if the leads were too
>light for the 7-8 amp load. I made a new set of leads using 14 AWG wire
>and, VIOLA, my VM-1000 started to work right. I had been losing about
>1.5 volts between the power supply and the VM-1000 volt sensing, plus
>the VM-1000 was showing no amps. With the new leads, I lose only 3
>tenths of a volt, and the ammeter is showing a robust 6 amps with my
>instrument lights, avionics, instruments and the battery on line. I can
>assume the power supply leads were the problem the whole time.
Interesting. Pleased to hear that progress is being made
even if we don't understand exactly how or why!
Bob . . .
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Wire and Fuse Size for E-bus |
(follow up)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
<snip>
> As a rule of thumb, we try to avoid always-hot feeders breakered
> at more than 5A . . . since fuses are so much faster, we could
> stretch that to 7A which will supply most folks e-bus with a
> reasonably sized, always-hot wire from battery bus.
>
> It's a good idea to provide a disconnect right at the battery
> bus for alternate feeds larger than 7A.
>
> I published a drawing of this some months ago for someone but
> until my server gets back up, I can't point you to it. Will
> follow up on this later today.
See http://216.55.140.222/temp/E-BusFatFeed.gif
Bob . . .
Message 21
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| Subject: | noise from a stereo, Altrak altitude hold |
ORIGINAL_MESSAGE,USER_IN_WHITELIST
autolearn=ham version=2.53
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com
Anxiously awaiting my book which I ordered mid last week.
And I will do my homework as soon as I get it.
Thanks
Mike Stewart
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls@cox.net]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: noise from a stereo, Altrak altitude hold
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:42 PM 9/2/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com
>
>Hi Folks,
>
>Well I have this annoying noise in my RV. First let me say that I wired
this
>thing BEFORE I knew anything about grounding so my airframe is my ground.
>(DONT SHOOT ME PLEASE)
>
>After 800 hours I installed the Altrak altitude hold. When it is engaged, I
>get this morris code noise in my headsets, only when the stereo is powered
>on. The noise is definitely the stepper motor servo making the noise. The
>servo is installed in the fuse in the tail cone, far from the stereo
mounted
>on my panel.
>
>I have tried shielding the wires coming from servo, I tried moving the
servo
>wires to the other side of the fuse as they make their way to the panel.
>
>Is there something bizarre about Stereos that amplify noise in this
>frequency range. I also tried a Rat Shack RF choke on the stereo power
line.
You're going to have to deduce the propagation
mode for getting the noise into your audio system.
Have you read the chapter on noise in the 'Connection?
Adding ground almost never fixes and can make
noise problems works. You need to do the homework
and ferret out the noise path before you're going
to be able to fix it.
Bob . . .
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring Nulites |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:29 PM 9/3/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dr. John Birgiolas"
><jbirgiolas@smiletoronto.com>
>
>I have completed my 701 but for the engine and panel. I am starting the
>panel now and have not been looking forward to it.
>
>I have installed ringlites on four instruments, each of which has a + and
>- wire. Can I connect the four + wires together and
>
>connect them as one to the bus or should each wire have an individual
>connector? Sorry for the basic question, the first of many.
>
>I have been following the site for some time, but this is probably too
>basic a question.
Your first task on this system decision is to do the
FMEA (failure mode effects analysis) for the system
in question.
I just finished updating and posting an article I
did on the subject for Sport Aviation almost 10 years
ago. You can get a copy at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/FMEA.pdf
Basic questions you need to consider for this
or any other selection of component or technique
are:
1. How many ways can this part fail?
2. How will each failure affect system operation?
3. How will I know it failed?
4. Is the failure preflight detectable?
5. Is failure of this part, in any failure mode, likely to create
a hazard to flight?
6. Will failure of this part be likely to overtax my piloting
skills for comfortably terminating the flight?
John, I know it looks like I'm trying to
treat a simple question like a taxpayer-
financed research project . . . but consider the
following:
A quick FMEA on various options will reveal the risks
of "not doing it right" . . . if something comes
unhooked, the lights go out. If one of the exposed strands
at a joint gets a short to the airframe, the
lights go out. We protect all circuits so that failures in any
one system do not propagate to other systems.
Are you going to be in trouble if these four lights
decide not work some night?
If the answers to the "FMEA-6" suite of questions
reveal no great cause for concern, then one
the responses to your question is, "No matter how
you choose to connect these wires together, the
choices can be based on a sense of craftsmanship
without getting all wound around axles of
"reliability" and/or "tradition".
So, what works best for you? If the space is
tight, then the task can be as simple as soldering
all the wires together and covering with a layer of
heat-shrink tubing leaving you with a couple of
wires to route off to the dimmer control and ground.
If you want your project to take on the airs of
a Beechjet, then you could mount a D-sub connector
on spacers on the back side of your panel to create
a "minibus" . . . See:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/minibus.jpg
You could do this with a 9-pin connector
to accommodate your 4 sets of Nulite wires.
The point of all this is to suggest that whatever
technique you decide to use, there's no overwhelming
justification based on safety or tradition
for any particular technique . . . as long as
you're pleased with answers to the FMEA-6 . . .
>Is there a problem routing the transponder and radio antennas beside the
>battery cables or would it be better to route them on
>
>the opposite side of the fuselage with the headphone, mike and strobe/nav
>wiring?
They're fine all run together.
Bob . . .
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Picking a new battery |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:25 AM 9/3/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Unless you need the "ballast" it's almost a certainty
> that you can get by with a much smaller battery. How
> old will your 28 a.h. battery be by the time of first
> flight? What kind of battery is it?
>
>
>As my BC 110 SLA/RGbattery is already 5 years old ( dead) I will get a new
>one before I fly.Thanks to your response I'm sure I can get by
>electrically with a smaller battery. So now the question becomes 'How much
>smaller?': I don't think this is right but if Isum all the E-Bus fuse
>sizes on Fig Z-11 I get 28 amps. (IfIhave 4 hours of fuel that can't mean
>I need 4x28 AH of capacity. Obviously I'm trying to make it too simple) I
>know all the fuses don't draw that much all the time but how do I figure
>the steady state load for an alternator out scenario?
Recall that fuses protect wires and they need to be large
enough not to nuisance trip under normal operating conditions.
The sum total of fuse/breaker ratings has almost nothing to do with
how much power it takes to operate your airplane.
EVERY device you plan to use has a known electrical load
requirement. Sometimes it's marked on the nameplate, it should
always be part of the specifications data for the product.
If push comes to shove, you can power the device up on
the bench with a battery or better yet, a power supply
set for 14.0 volts and measure the device's operating
needs.
In the case of radios, check the installation manual's
first few pages for operating requirements . . . or call
the manufacturer. You need to know this information for
ALL of the devices in your airplane if you'd like to
make considered decisions for sizing hardware.
Some builders take the broad brush approach and install
the classic 24-18 a.h. battery and a 60A alternator.
It's much better and not difficult to a load analysis
that describes your electrical needs exactly. See
http://216.55.140.222/temp/Load_Analysis.pdf
for a graphical example.
Make copies of page 2 of this file. Fill in the blanks
for equipment items and continuous running loads for
various flight conditions. Only after you've completed
this exercise are you in a position to make an educated
decision about battery size and/or what your personal
goals are for alternator-out endurance.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Wire and Fuse Size for E-bus (follow up) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dick Jordan" <mkejrj@erols.com>
Bob,
I'm building an all electric airplane using single battery, dual
alternator per your Z-12. The Aux alternator is 20 AMPS.
You ask how the plane will be used since this dictates what eqpt. is
essential for the E-Bus.My answer is VFR & soft IFR. I had hoped to include
the EFIS ONE plus a modified " Six Pak" for redundancy. The modified aspect
involves substituting the DIGITRAK'S electronic DG presentation for a stand
alone DG. The downside of this poor man's DG is that it requires GPS input
from the EFIS engine. I mention this in that the two sources are tied
together.
Inclusion of the equipment mentioned in my first E-Mail on the load of my
E-Bus would make me feel warm and fuzzy if I have to operate in IFR. Putting
your E-Bus on a diet really makes you think...Especially when most of the
load is in the EFIS. With this as the case I was glad to receive your
comment that an SD-8 would support the EFIS with a 14 AWG/15 AMP fuse...I
assume that a 20 AMP Aux Alternator would therefore allow inclusion of the
Art. Horizon too. This would alter wire and fuse size slightly.
Your comment on the mini Contactor for the fat wire E-Bus supply is a good
one . Do you have a specific model in mind ? Isn't the model you mentioned
designed for the SD-8 ?Would a standard Battery Conractor work ?
Thanks so much for your insight and valuable assistance,
Dick Jordan
Malvern,Pa.
RV- 8A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire and Fuse Size for E-bus (follow up)
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 11:09 PM 9/2/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> ><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> >At 09:47 PM 9/2/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dick Jordan"
<mkejrj@erols.com>
>
> <snip>
>
> > >#1: Blue Mt. Suggests 10 AMP circuit but they advise normal load @ 4
AMPS.
> > >
> > >#2:Starting load shown; reduces to 1.2 AMPS after spooling up.
> > >
> > >#3: Xmit load shown;Receive @ .7 AMPS.
> > >
> > >If you reduce by the factors in the notes the load should be approx 12
AMPS.
> >
> > If you're really wanting the e-bus to be an endurance bus, then
> > I'd put the horizon gyro and EFIS on the main bus. Recall that
> > the purpose of the e-bus is to maximize use of limited resource
> > in the en route mode of flight. If you've suffered some kind of
> > failure that makes the e-bus most valuable, then you want to
> > get into the "Apollo 13" en route mode of power utilization until
> > you've got airport in sight. I suspect the autopilot in a
> > smooth air mode draws less than 3A average. Nav/Com will be
> > in the receive mode 99% of the time. 0.8A is too much for
lighting.
>
> <snip>
>
> Dick, I forgot to ask if you are an all-electric airplane and if
> you plan a second alternator. IF you plan at least an SD-8 on
> the vacuum pump pad, then the e-bus can be planned for a larger
> continuous load than you would for battery only.
>
> With the SD-8, you could power the EFIS from the e-bus. The
> alternate feed wire/fuse goes up to 14AWG/15A
>
> Even with the earlier suggestion of 16AWG/10A, or the SD-8
> supported 14AWG/15A combination, consider adding an S704-1
> relay or equal to the system to control the e-bus alternate
> feed path from the battery bus end . . . sort of a mini-battery
> contactor.
>
> As a rule of thumb, we try to avoid always-hot feeders breakered
> at more than 5A . . . since fuses are so much faster, we could
> stretch that to 7A which will supply most folks e-bus with a
> reasonably sized, always-hot wire from battery bus.
>
> It's a good idea to provide a disconnect right at the battery
> bus for alternate feeds larger than 7A.
>
> I published a drawing of this some months ago for someone but
> until my server gets back up, I can't point you to it. Will
> follow up on this later today.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | noise from a stereo, Altrak altitude |
hold
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:57 PM 9/4/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mstewart@qa.butler.com
>
>Anxiously awaiting my book which I ordered mid last week.
>And I will do my homework as soon as I get it.
>Thanks
>
>Mike Stewart
A big stack of books went out Tuesday. I'm pretty
sure that caught up all the orders. Yours should
have been in that stack.
In the mean time, you might want to fabricate
a 12v dry battery from a couple of cheapie 6v
lantern batteries from Wallmart (you can often
buy a lantern AND battery for less than the
cost of a battery alone).
A stand-alone, super-clean source of power
is very handy in helping isolate noise
propagation pathways on the bus.
Bob . . .
Message 26
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| Subject: | less expensive power supply with Aeroflash heads |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero@yahoo.com>
Just got off the phone with Nova's tech guy and he pulled up the Aeroflash strobe
specs and indeed the 90 watt X-Pac looks like it's a little hot for these.
Called Strobes-N-More and it sounds like the best bang for the buck here is their
EPS-40X Series which has the nice adjustable patterns and should fire up the
10 joules just fine. About right if you don't need the blinding Whelans. Plus
you can choose from lots of neato strobe patterns :)
It has an output energy of 34 joules. I assume that the FAA reqs means 20 joules
*total* between the two strobes, right? That's the way the Aeroflashes get
away with double 10 jouled ones??
All said and done it's about $305 for this setup which is a lot nicer than $772
for the Whelans and $430 for the Aeroflashes (with their supply).
Don't want to get caught in the TANSTAAFL so what am I missing here?
Thanks.
Joa
---------------------------------
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: tri-positon switch location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1@tampabay.rr.com>
> >I am looking for a tri-position switch. A left/right/push type switch
that
> >is momentary. Anyone have any links on where to find it? I looked in
the
> >digi-key catalogue and could not find one there. Also, does anyone have
a
> >good link to an 8x1 lcd display?
>
> I presume you're describing an (on)-off-(on) offered by
> B&C as their S700-2-7 at:
Not really, while it has a (on)-off-(on), it would also to have a push for
an (on). it is a knob compared to a toggle switch. In the digi-key catalog
there is something similar digi-key part# 401-1264-1-nd I would like to
replace two switches with this one, one would be the s700-2-7 and athe
other is a single (on)-off switch.
Bob
---
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: site back up . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lockamy, Jack L NA" <jack.lockamy@navy.mil>
Bob,
I (and assume a lot of others....) would be more than willing to make a small donation
to support your costs to keep all your data/info on an online server.
The convenience of having the files avail online sure beats loading a CD.
The service you provide here is unbelievable! THANK YOU! I learn something new
each and every day I read the AeroElectric List.....
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: aeroflash strobes with Nova X-Pac 904 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh@bellsouth.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sigma Eta Aero" <sigmatero@yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: aeroflash strobes with Nova X-Pac 904
This supply reduces output power when only two outlets are activated.
Does this mean it actually delivers less than the 45 watts per head???
>
I talked to the folks at Nova and this is true. They told me if I was only
using two flash tubes that the XPac 604 would be a better choice as it does
not reduce power when only 2 tubes are used. Don't know if the aeroflash
tubes will stand the extra power but the Whelen tubes will, or at least
should. Use the money saved by using the XPac 604 to buy the Whelen tubes.
Bill
Glasair SIIS-FT
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: less expensive power supply with Aeroflash heads |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
If you are missing anything, I am too. That's the way I went.
The only possible down side I can see is the strobes from strobes-n-more do
not come with a glass lens or metal mounting frame. In my case, since they
are going under a covered wingtip end, I am willing to give them some use
and save a few hundred for goodies in the panel. I also like the idea of
getting two extra tubes with cables and extra connectors. A very good deal
I think. As I see it, the two level of power switch (also included with my
harness set) also lets you run them on lower power and may never have to
replace the tubes. I also like the various patterns that can be selected.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
On Finish Kit and beyond
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sigma Eta Aero" <sigmatero@yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: less expensive power supply with Aeroflash heads
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero
<sigmatero@yahoo.com>
>
> Just got off the phone with Nova's tech guy and he pulled up the Aeroflash
strobe specs and indeed the 90 watt X-Pac looks like it's a little hot for
these.
>
> Called Strobes-N-More and it sounds like the best bang for the buck here
is their EPS-40X Series which has the nice adjustable patterns and should
fire up the 10 joules just fine. About right if you don't need the blinding
Whelans. Plus you can choose from lots of neato strobe patterns :)
>
> It has an output energy of 34 joules. I assume that the FAA reqs means 20
joules *total* between the two strobes, right? That's the way the
Aeroflashes get away with double 10 jouled ones??
>
> All said and done it's about $305 for this setup which is a lot nicer than
$772 for the Whelans and $430 for the Aeroflashes (with their supply).
>
> Don't want to get caught in the TANSTAAFL so what am I missing here?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Joa
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: less expensive power supply with Aeroflash heads |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero@yahoo.com>
Ok, spank me. I looked back through the archives again and noticed this time that
it seems like 20 joules *per flash* is the req.
Still, it would take a pretty picky inspector to look at a set of Aeroflashes strobe/nav/pos
lights and not sign the plane off for night VFR. Plus you could
honestly tell the inspector that the system is putting out over 20 joules (both
wings).
Joa
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Called Strobes-N-More and it sounds like the best bang for the buck here is their
EPS-40X Series which has the nice adjustable patterns and should fire up the
10 joules just fine. About right if you don't need the blinding Whelans. Plus
you can choose from lots of neato strobe patterns :)
It has an output energy of 34 joules. I assume that the FAA reqs means 20 joules
*total* between the two strobes, right? That's the way the Aeroflashes get away
with double 10 jouled ones??
---------------------------------
Message 32
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| Subject: | MAC elevator trim rocker switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: EddyFernan@aol.com
Bob & list,
Just wondering if anyone out there flying with the MAC trim have ever had a
problem with the elevator switch sticking and going full up or down.
One scenario might be that you are setting up for cruise flight and while
trimming the plane for level flight the trim switch goes to full down position.
Or is this a very remote possibility? I'm using Z-11 architecture and B &
C's toggles for everything except the elevator trim so that I have a different
feel to the switch compared to the flaps for instance.
What would be a precaution for this?
Eddy Fernandez
RV-9a
Wiring & more wiring
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: less expensive power supply with Aeroflash |
heads
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tom Brusehaver <cozytom@mn.rr.com>
What I have done is bought the whelen wingtip units
from Chief Aircraft on their specials page ($299/pr)
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/cgi-bin/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item=/Aircraft/Aircraft.html
then I went on e-bay and bought a Whelen CPS-660
supply ($89).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3624617484&category=395
That put my strobes at $388 plus shipping.
This gets me an all Whelen setup.
I didn't get the CPS690, since it uses 7Amps, where the
660 only needs 4amps. I don't remember the Joules, but
it was the same or more than the Whelen aircraft supply.
Sigma Eta Aero wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero@yahoo.com>
>
> Just got off the phone with Nova's tech guy and he pulled up the Aeroflash strobe
specs and indeed the 90 watt X-Pac looks like it's a little hot for these.
>
> Called Strobes-N-More and it sounds like the best bang for the buck here is their
EPS-40X Series which has the nice adjustable patterns and should fire up
the 10 joules just fine. About right if you don't need the blinding Whelans.
Plus you can choose from lots of neato strobe patterns :)
>
> It has an output energy of 34 joules. I assume that the FAA reqs means 20 joules
*total* between the two strobes, right? That's the way the Aeroflashes get
away with double 10 jouled ones??
>
> All said and done it's about $305 for this setup which is a lot nicer than $772
for the Whelans and $430 for the Aeroflashes (with their supply).
>
> Don't want to get caught in the TANSTAAFL so what am I missing here?
>
> Thanks.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 and ACS ignition switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" <duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
Is the ACS switch grounded to its own housing? I mean, is the ground
connector on the back of the switch continuous with the housing, and thereby
connected to the panel the switch is installed in?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Rotax 912 and ACS ignition switch
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 10:37 AM 9/2/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero
<sigmatero@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> >For wiring a Rotax 912 with the ACS A-510-2 switch (Page 381 in Spruce
> >catalog) do any of the terminals have to be jumpered (IOW is either of
the
> >magnetos a retard breaker or have impulse coupling type features)?
> >
> >
> >Also, I assume that you would run the shielding from both mags to the
> >ground terminal (term 5) and then NOT run a ground from this to the
> >firewall grounding block (but ground each cable shield individually at
the
> >ignition block), right?
>
> Yes, wire exactly as shown in Figure Z-16
>
>
> >The only thing that cornfuses me about this single point grounding
> >technique is that when the engine is running the mags are ungrounded
> >anyway so why does it make a difference?
>
> Single point grounding for noise control
> is not related to ignition control. You want
> to use the shields as ground for the switch and
> ground shields at the engine end only.
>
>
> >Also, I assume I should use the diode supplied with the ACS switch (when
> >wiring per Z-16)?
>
> No, the reasoning behind that diode is bogus.
> See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spikecatcher.pdf
>
> Put a diode across your contactor coil if it's not already
> there. The diode supplied with the switch will be fine.
> Adding it across the switch per ACS instructions adds
> no value.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: MAC elevator trim rocker switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:23 PM 9/4/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: EddyFernan@aol.com
>
>Bob & list,
>
>Just wondering if anyone out there flying with the MAC trim have ever had a
>problem with the elevator switch sticking and going full up or down.
Yes, and I know of a Kitfox that got totaled on takeoff
due to the MAC rocker sticking. Seems the plastic rocker was
not well centered in the housing.
>One scenario might be that you are setting up for cruise flight and while
>trimming the plane for level flight the trim switch goes to full down
>position.
>
>Or is this a very remote possibility? I'm using Z-11 architecture and B &
>C's toggles for everything except the elevator trim so that I have a
>different
>feel to the switch compared to the flaps for instance.
>
>What would be a precaution for this?
First, during flight testing make sure that there are
mechanical limits to trim authority that will keep
trim from exerting more authority than necessary.
Then, experiment to see how far out of trim you can
still handle the airplane. Can you deal competently
with a trim-in-limits condition?
Bizjets often use two switches on electric trim. Both
switches have to be activated (usually a trim enable
+ trim direction) for the trim to move. This isn't something
you need to deal with right away. Get the airplane flying
first. Make the establishment of hard mechanical stops
a priority for flight testing. Then do some tests at altitude
to see how the airplane handles should the trim actuator run
to either stop.
Make some flights where you trim for cruise at aft
cg and then land the airplane without changing the trim.
Make a measurement of trim mechanism position. Then see
how much further it will go into nose down position. That
EXTRA movement is the operationally useless and dangerous
part. Do the same thing after trimming for approach speed
with max forward CG. Then see how much excess motion you
have in the nose up direction. Design mechanical stops
to physically prevent motion beyond the necessary and
useful extremes. This will probably take care of all your
worries about trim runaway.
Bob . . .
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Wire and Fuse Size for E-bus |
(follow up)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:34 PM 9/4/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dick Jordan" <mkejrj@erols.com>
>
>Bob,
> I'm building an all electric airplane using single battery, dual
>alternator per your Z-12. The Aux alternator is 20 AMPS.
Okay, if your standby alternator is that big, why not
eliminate the e-bus? Z-14 with a small battery for the
second alternator lets you take advantage of he fully
stand-alone systems with very little weight penalty
over Z-12. Further, I presume your EFIS is one of those
products not designed to live in the read world and needs
it's own battery support during engine cranking anyhow.
See the EFIS/FADEC version of z-14 at
http://216.55.140.222/temp/z14_FADEC.pdf
This version does not automatically close the cross-feed
contactor for cranking but still allows a healthy cross-feed
capability during alternator out operations. Put all your
ugly, no-value-added en route loads on the main bus and
panel goodies on the aux bus. E-bus goes away along
with all attendant concerns for always-hot feedpaths,
diode heatsinks, etc.
The whole idea behind the e-bus was a step up for
single-alternator/single-battery systems to avoid
becoming a star performer in one of those dark-n-stormy-night
stories. Given that your second alternator is
so robust, Z-14 is the best option even if the
aux battery is a small one.
Bob . . .
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Wire and Fuse Size for E-bus |
(follow up)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:34 PM 9/4/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dick Jordan" <mkejrj@erols.com>
>
>Bob,
> I'm building an all electric airplane using single battery, dual
>alternator per your Z-12. The Aux alternator is 20 AMPS.
Okay, if your standby alternator is that big, why not
eliminate the e-bus? Z-14 with a small battery for the
second alternator lets you take advantage of he fully
stand-alone systems with very little weight penalty
over Z-12. Further, I presume your EFIS is one of those
products not designed to live in the read world and needs
it's own battery support during engine cranking anyhow.
See the EFIS/FADEC version of z-14 at
http://216.55.140.222/temp/z14_FADEC.pdf
This version does not automatically close the cross-feed
contactor for cranking but still allows a healthy cross-feed
capability during alternator out operations. Put all your
ugly, no-value-added en route loads on the main bus and
panel goodies on the aux bus. E-bus goes away along
with all attendant concerns for always-hot feedpaths,
diode heatsinks, etc.
The whole idea behind the e-bus was a simple step-up for
single-alternator/single-battery systems to avoid
becoming a star performer in one of those dark-n-stormy-night
stories. Given that your second alternator is
so robust, Z-14 is the best option even if the
aux battery is a small one.
Bob . . .
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: tri-positon switch location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:13 PM 9/4/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1@tampabay.rr.com>
>
>
> > >I am looking for a tri-position switch. A left/right/push type switch
>that
> > >is momentary. Anyone have any links on where to find it? I looked in
>the
> > >digi-key catalogue and could not find one there. Also, does anyone have
>a
> > >good link to an 8x1 lcd display?
> >
> > I presume you're describing an (on)-off-(on) offered by
> > B&C as their S700-2-7 at:
>Not really, while it has a (on)-off-(on), it would also to have a push for
>an (on). it is a knob compared to a toggle switch. In the digi-key catalog
>there is something similar digi-key part# 401-1264-1-nd I would like to
>replace two switches with this one, one would be the s700-2-7 and athe
>other is a single (on)-off switch.
That's a pretty cheezy switch for the cockpit environment.
What are you wanting to control with it?
Bob . . .
Message 39
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| Subject: | : MAC elevator trim rocker switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
This question comes up a lot, and is a very valid question to ask IMHO. I
have had no problems with the switch sticking (1225 hrs) even though I have
it mounted between the seats where it collects a lot of debris and gets
jarred. I believe the situation you describe could be easily controlled by
slowing down and countering with stick force. I can't say for sure as it is
difficult to duplicate the circumstance in flight and properly allow for the
muddled factor. It is also possible the trim motor could be stopped by
applying up trim, (which would add plus volts to the other wire?).
Notwithstanding this I did eventually install a pullable circuit breaker for
the elevator trim. It is a protruding thing a little different than the
other CBs in my row and easy to grab with either hand. Also I highly
recommend using Matronics speed controller which allows you to have as many
different switches as you want. The utility of these is you have an
alternate if a wire breaks (which I have had happen a couple times. Be sure
and use AWG 22 for any wire runs subject to motion.)
I can vouch for the controllability of taking off with full nose down and
full nose up. This is not a difficult flight test, and in both cases the
delay factor was real due to the inadvertent nature of the test.
Good luck and hope this helps.
Denis
Homecoming was a great trip. I left before the banquet so can't comment on
that, but the other meal gatherings were great, and well conducted.
> From: EddyFernan@aol.com
> Reply-To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:23:39 EDT
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: MAC elevator trim rocker switch
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: EddyFernan@aol.com
>
> Bob & list,
>
> Just wondering if anyone out there flying with the MAC trim have ever had a
> problem with the elevator switch sticking and going full up or down.
>
> One scenario might be that you are setting up for cruise flight and while
> trimming the plane for level flight the trim switch goes to full down
> position.
>
> Or is this a very remote possibility? I'm using Z-11 architecture and B &
> C's toggles for everything except the elevator trim so that I have a different
> feel to the switch compared to the flaps for instance.
>
> What would be a precaution for this?
>
> Eddy Fernandez
> RV-9a
> Wiring & more wiring
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: tri-positon switch location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Kuc" <bkuc1@tampabay.rr.com>
> > > >I am looking for a tri-position switch. A left/right/push type
switch
> >that
> > > >is momentary. Anyone have any links on where to find it? I looked
in
> >the
> > > >digi-key catalogue and could not find one there. Also, does anyone
have
> >a
> > > >good link to an 8x1 lcd display?
> > >
> > > I presume you're describing an (on)-off-(on) offered by
> > > B&C as their S700-2-7 at:
> >Not really, while it has a (on)-off-(on), it would also to have a push
for
> >an (on). it is a knob compared to a toggle switch. In the digi-key
catalog
> >there is something similar digi-key part# 401-1264-1-nd I would like to
> >replace two switches with this one, one would be the s700-2-7 and athe
> >other is a single (on)-off switch.
>
> That's a pretty cheezy switch for the cockpit environment.
> What are you wanting to control with it?
>
That is why I am looking for a better one than that found in digi-key. The
ideal switch would be like the one that is on the ASA flight timer. In
fact, with my micro processor, I have built one like the ASA Flight timer
that has clocks , timers, volts, amps along with a network built-in . This
with other units will talk to a central microprocessor for data storage ala
black box type.
Bob
So the ideal switch would be a left/right to set parameters and push to set
type function.
---
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Wire and Fuse Size for E-bus |
(follow up)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:34 PM 9/4/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dick Jordan" <mkejrj@erols.com>
>
>Bob,
> I'm building an all electric airplane using single battery, dual
>alternator per your Z-12. The Aux alternator is 20 AMPS.
Okay, if your standby alternator is that big, why not
eliminate the e-bus? Z-14 with a small battery for the
second alternator lets you take advantage of he fully
stand-alone systems with very little weight penalty
over Z-12. Further, I presume your EFIS is one of those
products not designed to live in the read world and needs
it's own battery support during engine cranking anyhow.
See the EFIS/FADEC version of z-14 at
http://216.55.140.222/temp/z14_FADEC.pdf
This version does not automatically close the cross-feed
contactor for cranking but still allows a healthy cross-feed
capability during alternator out operations. Put all your
ugly, no-value-added en route loads on the main bus and
panel goodies on the aux bus. E-bus goes away along
with all attendant concerns for always-hot feedpaths,
diode heatsinks, etc.
The whole idea behind the e-bus was a step up for
single-alternator/single-battery systems to avoid
becoming a star performer in one of those dark-n-stormy-night
stories. Given that your second alternator is
so robust, Z-14 is the best option even if the
aux battery is a small one.
Bob . . .
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 and ACS ignition switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:19 PM 9/4/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride"
><duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
>
>Is the ACS switch grounded to its own housing? I mean, is the ground
>connector on the back of the switch continuous with the housing, and thereby
>connected to the panel the switch is installed in?
That's an easy thing to check with an ohmmeter . . . but
the last time I looked at one, all contacts were isolated
from case which is as it should be . . .
Bob . . .
Message 43
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| Subject: | tri-positon switch location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robinson, Chad" <crobinson@rfgonline.com>
> So the ideal switch would be a left/right to set parameters
> and push to set type function.
Sounds like a job for a rotary encoder. That what most of these devices use, and
most encoders have a momentary pushbutton.
Regards,
Chad
Message 44
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| Subject: | Antenna Placement |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Reiter <reitersbb@yahoo.com>
Im sure this has been talked about before but I cant find what Im looking for in
the archives. On an RV how far apart should my antennas be. Im looking at
2 Comm Antennas under seats & Nav Antenna under horizontal stabilizer. Can my
marker beacon ant. be close to the comm antennas? I'd like to put it between
them under the seats. How far does the Transponder antenna need to be from others?
Thanks in advance
Brian
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