Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:09 AM - electric trim failure modes (Gary Casey)
2. 08:30 AM - Re: Re: Bob's server costs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 10:47 AM - Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer (Mark Todd)
4. 11:05 AM - Z11 Current Limiter (Jim Daniels)
5. 01:18 PM - Re: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer (James Foerster)
6. 01:53 PM - Alternator Ground (Tinne maha)
7. 02:26 PM - MAC8 Trim (Eric M. Jones)
8. 03:38 PM - Re: Re: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer (Benford2@aol.com)
9. 03:59 PM - Re: Alternator Ground (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 04:05 PM - Re: electric trim failure modes (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 04:28 PM - Miniature Switches (Tinne maha)
12. 04:35 PM - Wig-Wag Question (Tinne maha)
13. 06:46 PM - Re: Wig-Wag Question (richard@riley.net)
14. 08:01 PM - Forward:Alternator craziness (richard@riley.net)
15. 08:16 PM - Re: Z11 Current Limiter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 08:41 PM - Re: Wig-Wag Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 09:18 PM - Re: Miniature Switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 09:21 PM - Re: 10769 Wells (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | electric trim failure modes |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
<<Happened to me in my rv at cruise. Although it was not the mac rocker
>switch, it was a micro switch in my passenger stick. Trim went to the stops
>before I could get the breaker pulled.>>
It might not relate to that problem exactly, but on my S-Tec 60 the trim
switch is actually two switches side-by-side with two "handles" that you
push at the same time. Each switch runs one side of the motor, reducing the
probability that both would fail at the same time. If one does fail and you
push the switch in the opposite direction a short is created which opens the
breaker. I plan to use that design, but I don't know what to do about a
second control at the co-pilot's position. Cessna assumes the copilot would
use the manual wheel.
Gary Casey
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Bob's server costs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:48 PM 9/6/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KahnSG@aol.com
>
>Bob
>
>I would gladly like to send a donation to help with the increase in server
>costs.
>I am sure that others would also contribute to the cause and maybe you could
>also upgrade your list computer and a home server.
>
>Steve
I'd like to thank all of those who have come forward
with offers of support both privately and on the list.
I'm sure all of you know Matt Dralle and are aware of
the nature of his support to the OBAM aircraft community.
Matt and I have been talking about solutions using his
servers that won't tax his capability and will ultimately
divert cash flow that supports aeroelectic.com presense
on the 'net to matronics.com.
This seems to be a better solution for all because it
builds on reserves of a resource with proven capabilities
and doesn't dilute potential for financial support of
matronics.com
I'm going to be working this in stages. I am co-owner
of the server wherein aeroelectric.com present resides.
I don't want to bail on my partner in that venture.
In due course, I'll be installing two new websites
on the present server . . . both very low volume in
comparison to aeroelectric.com.
In the interim, Matt has set up some drive space that
I'll use as a "library" for the very large files
I've had to take down from aeroelectric.com
It will take me a few day to get re-organized
but I wanted everyone to know that a practical and
pleasant solution is at hand.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Todd" <motodd@worldnet.att.net>
Walt,
Here's one solution that worked for me. I bought a 30 PSI oil switch
(Pegasus Auto was my source- good quality, rated for 100 psi continuous,
peak 500- about $15 as I recall) that I tee'd off my oil pressure
transducer and hooked it to a warning light on my panel. If my oil
pressure goes below 30 (perhaps you'd prefer a 40 psi switch), a big red
warning light comes on. At shutdown, it comes on about the same time
the prop stops (unlike 0 psi switch that can take several more
seconds-long enough for me to get out of the plane with the master still
on). The 30 psi switch/warning light is a good reminder for me to turn
off the master and it adds to in flight safety.
Maybe not the most sophisticated solution, but cheap and very effective.
I haven't left my master switch on since I installed it about 800 hours
ago. Before that....don't ask.
Of course, steel fittings should be used if you tee in this switch on
the engine.
Mark
RV4
Time: 12:35:51 AM PST US
From: RVEIGHTA@aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RVEIGHTA@aol.com
Bob, any ideas about a cheap/easy solution to the problem of leaving the
master on and running down the battery? I just did it today, and it's a
pain in
th posterior. Like many homebuilts, my RV-8A has toggle switches for
the
master and L mag/elect. ignition, so it's easy to forgot to flip the
master off
(for me at least).
Avtek has a nice unit called the "1st Alert" but it's kinda pricy at
$160.
It's main job is to alert you to a bad alternator, broken alternator
belt, etc.,
but any negative flow from the battery makes the panel light flash.
Another question is do you have any suggestions or recommendations for
an
externally mounted power plug to be used to jump start an a/c with low
battery?
Walt Shipley RV-8A
Message 4
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| Subject: | Z11 Current Limiter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Daniels <jwdanie@comcast.net>
Figure Z11 shows an ANL60 alternator current limiter. Should this be
an ANL40 with the B&C 40A alternator, or should it remain a 60A
limiter? By the way, I couldn't find Note 10 in the 11/01 Appendix Z
updates.
Regards,
Jim Daniels
Message 5
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| Subject: | RE: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comcast.net>
Listers,
Mark Todd has presented a good solution to the "master switch on" problem. I did
the same thing for "headlights on" with my 1965 Corvair years ago. The positive
end of a Mallory Sonalert was connected to the switched side of the headlight
switch and the negative to the oil pressure switch. If it beeped on a turn,
time to put in more oil! Also saved the battery. I always ran with my headlights
on for safety, having seen too many accidents in the ER in medical school.
The 30# switch is an additional level of warning that should prove useful. Thanks,
Mark.
Jim Foerster, J400, 50%......
Message 6
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| Subject: | Alternator Ground |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
I am installing a Honda part #14184, 35 amp alternator on my airplane. One of the
spades on the plug is for a ground wire. I know it wont hurt ( will probably
only help) to connect it to my ground bus, but is is required for proper alternator
operation?
<a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMHENUS/2752??PS=">Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee.
Message 7
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Design notes on the MAC 8 trimmer and its conversion to a true servo is on my website:
http://www.periheliondesign.com/mac8trim.zip
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
"The man who carries a cat by the tail
learns something that can be learned
in no other way."
--Mark Twain
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 9/7/2003 2:19:54 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
jmfpublic@comcast.net writes:
>
> Listers,
> Mark Todd has presented a good solution to the "master switch on" problem.
> I did the same thing for "headlights on" with my 1965 Corvair years ago. The
> positive end of a Mallory Sonalert was connected to the switched side of the
> headlight switch and the negative to the oil pressure switch. If it beeped
> on a turn, time to put in more oil! Also saved the battery. I always ran
> with my headlights on for safety, having seen too many accidents in the ER in
> medical school.
>
> The 30# switch is an additional level of warning that should prove useful.
> Thanks, Mark.
>
> Jim Foerster, J400, 50%......
>
>
>
I don't know what is worse, driving with your headlights off or driving a
corvair...
Jus kiddin.
do not archive.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator Ground |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:52 PM 9/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
>I am installing a Honda part #14184, 35 amp alternator on my airplane. One
>of the spades on the plug is for a ground wire. I know it wont hurt ( will
>probably only help) to connect it to my ground bus, but is is required for
>proper alternator operation?
Not necessary. Your alternator will ground nicely through
the mounting hardware. You do need a nice fat ground
wire from crankcase to firewall ground stud.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: electric trim failure modes |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:03 AM 9/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
>
><<Happened to me in my rv at cruise. Although it was not the mac rocker
> >switch, it was a micro switch in my passenger stick. Trim went to the stops
> >before I could get the breaker pulled.>>
>
>It might not relate to that problem exactly, but on my S-Tec 60 the trim
>switch is actually two switches side-by-side with two "handles" that you
>push at the same time. Each switch runs one side of the motor, reducing the
>probability that both would fail at the same time. If one does fail and you
>push the switch in the opposite direction a short is created which opens the
>breaker. I plan to use that design, but I don't know what to do about a
>second control at the co-pilot's position. Cessna assumes the copilot would
>use the manual wheel.
KingAirs use a "twin switch" arranged such that each
side is one pole of the center-off, two-pole reversing
switch. Both switches are operated together to command (nose-up)-off-
(nose-dn) trim. It is deduced very unlikely that both switches
would fail at the same time to produce un-commanded motion.
Each switch is easily tested in pre-flight to show that operation of
a single switch produces no trim motion.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Miniature Switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
I am hoping to use all miniature switches on my panel. Can anyone tell me where/if
I can locate 2-3, 2-5 2-50 switches?
Thanks,
Grant Krueger
Message 12
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| Subject: | Wig-Wag Question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
I have one Taxi/Landing light on my airplane - They are two separate bulbs right
next to each other. Would there be any visibility improvement from a Wig-Wag
installation? I'm very inclined to think not but wanted to hear what y'all had
to say.
Thanks again,
Grant
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Wig-Wag Question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
I have the same setup, 2 MR16 halogen bulbs about 5 inches away from each
other in the nose of my airplane. I'm going to use an HID Par36 on a gear
leg as a landing light, and use the halogens as recognition lights. I was
planning on doing them both on/both off, but I'd love to hear what the
group has to say.
At 04:35 PM 9/7/03 -0700, Tinne maha wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
>I have one Taxi/Landing light on my airplane - They are two separate bulbs
>right next to each other. Would there be any visibility improvement from a
>Wig-Wag installation? I'm very inclined to think not but wanted to hear
>what y'all had to say.
>
> Thanks again,
> Grant
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Forward:Alternator craziness |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
I'm forwarding this from the canard aviator's mailing list, hoping someone
here can figure this one out. If we come up with anything good I'll
forward it (Backward it?) back to the CA list.
===========================
From: "sardella92708" <sardella92708@yahoo.com>
Subject: [c-a] Alternator craziness
Dear Group,
My over-voltage relay keeps on tripping right after take-off. I get
about 400 feet up and it trips. I can't seem to duplicate the
problem on the ground. At a full power run-up, no problem,
everything is normal. I even tried testing it this way with my radios
and transponder on, and it works normal on the ground. As soon as I
go flying, it trips, and keeps on tripping after I keep on reseting
it. I was more intermittent the first time it started tripping only
about an hours worth of hobbs time ago. I'm picking at straws now,
thinking that when air blows through the alternator in flight, that
there may be a winding or something shorting. Any comments would be
appreciated, because I hate to remove the alternator unnecessarily.
Thanks in advance.
Jim
N81EJ
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Z11 Current Limiter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:04 PM 9/7/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Daniels <jwdanie@comcast.net>
>
>Figure Z11 shows an ANL60 alternator current limiter. Should this be
>an ANL40 with the B&C 40A alternator, or should it remain a 60A
>limiter?
Would be better as an ANL40 . . . B&C Stocks them.
> By the way, I couldn't find Note 10 in the 11/01 Appendix Z
>updates.
That's a clean-up item on the drawings. Note 9 is the one
dealing with current limiters . . .
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Wig-Wag Question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:44 PM 9/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
>
>I have the same setup, 2 MR16 halogen bulbs about 5 inches away from each
>other in the nose of my airplane. I'm going to use an HID Par36 on a gear
>leg as a landing light, and use the halogens as recognition lights. I was
>planning on doing them both on/both off, but I'd love to hear what the
>group has to say.
Human visual acuity for high contrast objects (two lights with some
VERY much darker stuff between them) is about 2 arc minutes of subtended
angle. If your bulbs are, say 4" in diameter with 5" spacing, the
pattern from max to min brightness has a distance of 4.5"
For an oncoming observer to perceive that wig-wag'ed lights
with this spacing to be perceived as actually two, independently
flashing lights, he would have to be something on the order of
600' away. On the other hand, wig-wagged lights on opposite wing
tips are about 30' apart. These will be perceived as separate lights
at a distance of nearly 10 miles.
A simple on-off flasher for one lamp would be a much stronger
attention grabbing action than wig-wagging the two lamps.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Miniature Switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:27 PM 9/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
>I am hoping to use all miniature switches on my panel. Can anyone tell me
>where/if I can locate 2-3, 2-5 2-50 switches?
>
> Thanks,
> Grant Krueger
This has been done. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/miniswitches.jpg
This is the panel of either a Q2 or Dragonfly where
the builder has used miniature switches. He reports
"no problems" for about 200 hours of service.
His landing and taxi lights were 55W Halogen
mini-reflector lamps like:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/MVC-007W.JPG
You'll further note that magnetos are not controlled
by these switches.
From a pure service-life perspective, these switches
will probably do well enough for him in his situation.
Larger lamps, larger loads like pitot heaters, and higher
voltage applications like magneto p-leads, will push these
switches very hard. I don't recommend them without adding
relays to buffer the switches from killer loads . . . and
that drives up parts count.
The full range of functional equivalents of the full
size toggle switches are available from companies like
C&K. See:
http://www.ittcannon.com/media/pdf/catalogs/Leaf/SW_toggle_7000.pdf
Now, let's see what might be gained by using miniature
switches. Download and print:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/MINIvsFULL.pdf
Here are two switch clusters side by side using full sized
and miniature toggles. If you're going to adopt a fairly
well observed practice of limiting panel lettering to no
smaller than .1", then you can see that there is perhaps
a 20% reduction in panel real estate required should one
drop the switches to half size.
My recommendation would be to stay with the much more
robust, full sized devices with a solid track record that
goes back to day-one in the history of aircraft
electrics. You won't be sorry you did. I can't vouch
for the alternative and certainly wouldn't bet much
on them in power/voltage handling tasks common to
the systems were building.
Bob . . .
Message 18
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>Purchased your "AeroElectric Connection" guide several years ago and it's
>been a big help. I'm restoring a 1947 Stinson, from the ground up, and
>have run into an antenna problem that I'm sure you will be able to shed
>some light on. The airplane originally had a NARCO VHT-3 "Superhomer"
>when purchase in 1965.
Do you still have the old radio? I'd sure like to have one
for my "museum" . . .
> It has a diapole VOR antenna mounted at the top portion of the vertical
> stabilizer (similar to the one pictured on page 13-11, top figure, of
> your guide). My quandry is how to connect the RG cable to the
> antenna. The original cable had what I'd call a somewhat unorthodox
> antenna connection. The cable ground was separated with a loop of the
> insulated inner core wire showing. Each side of the separated shielded
> ground was attached to a lug of the antenna. The center loop was held in
> place with a bold and insulated covering, mounted in between the two lugs.
>The cable was folded over some 12 inches and fastened to the vertical
>stabilizer.
>My question is: Is it correct to connect the shielding ground to one lug
>and the center stranded core wire to the other lug? Strain relief will be
>provided. This would be similar to your connection shown on page 13-16 of
>the Guide.
>I will be installing a new VOR but wish to continue to use the original
>antenna. I'm trying to keep the airplane as "original" as possible for
>when I make my final flight West the airplane goes to the Smithsonian Air
>& Space Museum.
what you're describing is a "balun" . . . a special
treatment of the coax feedline to optimize the performance
of a balanced antenna being driven by an unbalanced feedline.
In practice, the performance difference between the extra
work you've described and simply connecting one leg of antenna
to shield and other to center conductor is difficult to
deduce . . . even with good laboratory equipment.
It's still less important given the performance of modern
solid state receivers.
Hook it up as described in the book and it will be fine.
Recommend you upgrade the original 1940's RG-58 coax
with 1980's RG-400 or RG-142.
Bob . . .
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