Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:01 AM - Re: Little recognition lights (James Foerster)
2. 06:29 AM - Re: Balun replacement (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:38 AM - Re: Causes for epidemic horizon failures ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:45 AM - Re: System configuration questions . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:45 AM - overvoltage condition spotting (Sigma Eta Aero)
6. 08:30 AM - DC power panel minutia (Sigma Eta Aero)
7. 09:07 AM - Re: Recommended course of study . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 09:13 AM - Re: overvoltage condition spotting (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 11:37 AM - Re: DC power panel minutia (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 12:40 PM - Re: overvoltage condition spotting (RSwanson)
11. 01:21 PM - Re: DC power panel minutia (Neville Kilford)
12. 02:27 PM - Re: overvoltage condition spotting (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 02:28 PM - Re: DC power panel minutia (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 02:32 PM - Re: DC power panel minutia (Scott Bilinski)
15. 02:34 PM - Test Adapter (Rick Fogerson)
16. 02:38 PM - Re: overvoltage condition spotting (Trampas)
17. 02:53 PM - Re: DC power panel minutia (Dj Merrill)
18. 02:56 PM - Re: less expensive power supply with Aeroflash heads (Shaun Simpkins)
19. 03:26 PM - Essential Bus in a Dual Battery System (kc)
20. 04:44 PM - Re: DC power panel minutia (Sigma Eta Aero)
21. 05:57 PM - Re: DC power panel minutia (Jon Finley)
22. 06:14 PM - Re: Test Adapter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 07:18 PM - Re: DC power panel minutia (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 07:22 PM - Re: DC power panel minutia (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 07:32 PM - Re: Test Adapter (John Schroeder)
26. 07:34 PM - Re: overvoltage condition spotting (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
27. 07:59 PM - VHF transmit problem ()
28. 08:30 PM - Re: DC power panel minutia (Dj Merrill)
29. 10:48 PM - Re: Little recognition lights (KeithHallsten)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Little recognition lights |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comcast.net>
Keith,
Try Allelectronics for both MR16 bulbs and the QRX-4 base for $1.25. The MR11
socket is harder to find, and there are not nearly as many choices for wattage
and beam width. I'm using MR16s in my J400, making the fixture out of thin aluminum
with this lamp.
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category320400&typestore is the URL for the catalog page.
Jim Foerster
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Balun replacement |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>Comments/Questions: Bob,
>
>I'm repairing a 70's era Grumman American and find that the balun for the
>VOR cat whiskers is badly deteriorated. I've read your comments on using
>RG-400 in place of the older RG-58A/U that has no Quality Assurance on
>it. My question is: Does the RG-400 have any electrical properties that
>would alter the design or performance of the balun?
Perhaps. If I were going to fabricate balun assemblies from
a roll of modern coax, I would make measurements of samples
from the roll to determine the coax's velocity factor which
can vary from coax type to type and vary slightly from
roll to roll on same type. The velocity factor sets the
physical dimension of wavelength in the coax as opposed to
the calculated free-space wavelength.
>In case you've not seen one of these, it is a length of RG-58 that has had
>the shield split about 1/4 wave length from the end and the 2 shield
>braids are crimped into 2 ring terminals. The trailing end of the coax is
>folded back on itself and heat shrinked to the lead in portion.
>
>There is no loading device at the terminals as is used on some designs.
>
>I have pictures should you care to see them.
For some years, Cessna went to the trouble to fabricate
baluns for their cat-whisker antennas on the SE aircraft.
Then as I recall, Gordon Wood in the electrical group
acquired some test equipment with which he could study
antenna characteristics. He deduced that we gained very
little measurable benefit from using a balun as opposed
to simply hooking shield and center of a coax to the two
whiskers. This would have been sometime around 1967.
Given the superior performance of today's solid state receivers,
I suspect gains to be realized are even less significant.
If you went to the trouble to fabricate a new balun
using dimensions taken directly from the old one, it's
quite likely that it would perform satisfactorily. It
is equally likely that it will perform satisfactorily
if you simply attach each antenna element directly to
shield and center conductor of the feedline.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Causes for epidemic horizon failures ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:13 PM 9/8/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee"
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>Hi all,
>
>Our kit manufacturer just asked me what could be the cause for repeating
>electric horizon failures, regardless of the brand.
>The kits are powered with Rotax engines, mainly wired according to the Rotax
>diagrams.
>He didn't mention the nature of the failures, electrical or mechanical.
>Here are some possible causes that came to my mind :
>
>- "Dirty" electric power
>- Lack or an OV protection
>- Vibrations (the kits are carbon fiber, and I noticed that many builders do
>not ensure proper clearance between panel and structure, rendering the
>silent blocks inoperative)
>- Poor quality horizons : several are "imported" version from A&S. Others
>are RC Allen. Only some surplus military Czech horizons seem to be trouble
>free.
>
>Does anyone around see other possible causes to investigate ?
>
>He asked wether insufficient voltage could play a role.
>Any opinions ?
Electrically gyros other than some turn coordinators
are always a polyphase a/c motor driven by a solid
state inverter. Inverter design has always been
rather robust (the same germanium transistors that
would give up due to external stresses in the audio
systems of the first hybrid Nav/Com 300's would be
okay in the power supply inverter for high voltage
generation for vacuum tubes).
As you have noted, the query is devoid of supporting
data to even begin development of a hypothesis. If
I were to take a WAG at it, I'd look at mechanical
issues first . . . vibration is the single most
deleterious stress on gyro bearings. That presupposes
that the person asking the question doesn't already
KNOW that they've experienced a rash of electrical
failures . . .
Have them contact me directly and I'll make inquiries
with local overhaul shops after we've deduced the
logical investigative pathways to root-cause of
the failures.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: System configuration questions . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>Comments/Questions: Bob
>
>I have your book and have decided to go all electric, thanks
>I will also be purchasing a bunch of your stuff for the electrics on my
>RV-8. I plan to install Dual Lightspeed Plazman III, and Grand Rapids EFIS
>and EIS.
>
>1) I plan a backup battery, like B&C sell< Question: is one backup battery
>for ignition and the EFIS/EIS enough or should I have two back-ups, one
>dedicated to ignition and the other to the EFIS/EIS. ie One bigger one or
>two smaller, of course in addition to the Primary battery.
>
>2) Vans 60 amp alternator is half the cost of the B&C, a lot of money, but
>it is also internally regulated. I have already decided I want to use your
>regulator and OV protection< coments??
Yeah, but you're already spending a ton of dollars on
other things. What is it about the B&C alternator that
find is not a good value? Do you know that the B&C
machines have a wearout and failure rate that is
essentially zero for the fleet of alternators supplied
over the last 10+ years? Number one cause for alternator
return is user induced damage.
You're considering an all-electric design and have
expressed concerns for having enough "backup batteries" . . .
Would it not be better to use primary power generation
components that are less likely to NEED backup?
Which version of all-electric? I presume that
if you're budgeting the kind of cash it takes to
fill out the suite of electronics cited, that you're
also interested in two engine driven power sources as
well.
You've cited a willingness to consider multiple batteries so
you could also consider a variation of Figure Z-14 wherein
your system enjoys totally independent electrical systems
for highest system reliability.
Let's start the discussion by taking one of the Z-drawings
and seeing where it makes sense to modify it to your
particular needs.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Well considered and technically elegant answers to
all of your questions are waiting for you there. Also,
check out the downloadable materials at
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
Message 5
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| Subject: | overvoltage condition spotting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero@yahoo.com>
A friend of mine at work was driving his 2 year old Dodge pickup yesterday out
of his driveway and he said the voltmeter pegged to the right and the truck engine
immediately quit. He had it checked out by the shop (under warrantee) and
they blamed it on the battery "shorting out" since supposedly the alternator
checked out fine.
This is an actual confirmed siting of the elusive overvoltage condition. And no
my friend's name is not Elvis :)
Joa
---------------------------------
Message 6
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| Subject: | DC power panel minutia |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero@yahoo.com>
I am placing components in the panel. How big of hole for the breaker (Im assuming
15/32 but just want to confirm) and for the low and over voltage warning
lights? What is the preferred color for each of these lights (say amber-amber
or use different colors like amber-white)? I was planning on using something
similar to a miniature red LED lamp at Radio Shack rated at 12 VDC, 100mW with
a projection angle of 45 degrees, $1.99 each part number 276-084 but need to
make sure they have amber and/or white. BTW one of the S-7 listers used these
little red lights successfully as panel post lights (instruments) by mounting
in little metal holders so I probably will too.
Is there a preferred placement for each of these two lights, the alt field breaker,
the master switch, and the epanel switch? Should the e-panel switch toggle
be flipped up or down on the panel when its in its normally open condition
and is it important that this switch have a safety cover over it?
Thanks.
Joa
---------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Recommended course of study . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>Comments/Questions: Hello,
>
> I am a pilot and looking for a basic book about aircraft electricity or
> electricity in general. I am stepping into a Swearingen Merlin III and
> would like to feel more confident about reading the schematics and
> understanding the electrical system. Would your book help with this?
It would be a good start.
> Do you recommend any other books?
It sorta depends on how far you want to go. Electrics, electronics,
engines, aerodynamics, etc. etc are all PHYSICS. Further, they're
all based on stone-simple fundamentals that can be combined into
a variety of systems. One can have a reasonable working knowledge
of systems sufficient to use them . . . which is where the
vast majority of pilots find themselves. The 40-hour, FAA approved
syllabus for flight schools is specifically designed to get you
a license to operated an airplane but assures very little about
how well you understand the machine and the environment it
operates in.
The "AeroElectric Connection" is system oriented with some
explanation of how the various components fit into system
design. For more detail on the physics, consider texts like "Conceptual
Physics" by Hewitt and "Electronic Fundamentals Circuits,
Devices and Applications" by Floyd. These are available used
on the 'net at very reasonable prices, are well written and
fun to read. All of this reading is best augmented by
discussions with folks who are also expanding their horizons
of understanding.
I'd suggest you start with a copy of the AeroElectric Connection
and further, how about joining the AeroElectric List on Matronics.com?
There's a bunch of folks on the list trying to do exactly what
you're looking for . . . except most of them are building their
own airplanes. However, irrespective of whether your system is
owner built or factory built, the simple ideas that define performance
are the same. You'll be hard pressed to find a better venue for
the discussion of how it all works.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: overvoltage condition spotting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:41 AM 9/9/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero@yahoo.com>
>
>A friend of mine at work was driving his 2 year old Dodge pickup yesterday
>out of his driveway and he said the voltmeter pegged to the right and the
>truck engine immediately quit. He had it checked out by the shop (under
>warrantee) and they blamed it on the battery "shorting out" since
>supposedly the alternator checked out fine.
>
>This is an actual confirmed siting of the elusive overvoltage
>condition. And no my friend's name is not Elvis :)
Hmmmm . . . I'm mystified as to how a shorted battery can
produce an ov condition. This anecdote is interesting
but lacking in data as to what really went wrong and why
the system behaved as observed. Voltage regulation happens
in the alternator. If the observed panel instrument is
really a voltmeter and not an ammeter, then a gross
indication of "too much" was observed, it doesn't make
sense. However, a shorted battery can become a 10v battery
and indeed produce a "too much" indication on an ammeter
when 14v alternator comes on line and tries to charge it.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: DC power panel minutia |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:27 AM 9/9/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero@yahoo.com>
>
>
>I am placing components in the panel. How big of hole for the breaker
>(Im assuming 15/32 but just want to confirm) and for the low and over
>voltage warning lights?
I'm lost. Low -AND- over-voltage warning lights? Which warning
system are you installing? Hole sizes are dependent upon the
specific components selected.
> What is the preferred color for each of these lights (say amber-amber
> or use different colors like amber-white)? I was planning on using
> something similar to a miniature red LED lamp at Radio Shack rated at 12
> VDC, 100mW with a projection angle of 45 degrees, $1.99 each part number
> 276-084 but need to make sure they have amber and/or white.
We supply a LED lamp fixture with our LV sensor (versions -101/-102)
but if you want to use an incandescent lamp, you can order version -201
or -202
and pick your own fixture.
> BTW one of the S-7 listers used these little red lights successfully
> as panel post lights (instruments) by mounting in little metal holders so
> I probably will too.
>
>
>Is there a preferred placement for each of these two lights, the alt field
>breaker, the master switch, and the epanel switch? Should the e-panel
>switch toggle be flipped up or down on the panel when its in its normally
>open condition and is it important that this switch have a safety cover
>over it?
Suggested switch panel arrangements for the various
system configurations are illustrated at:
http://216.55.140.222/temp/Switches.pdf
I don't know that there is any "preferred" placement
one should adopt. It's better to have a considered
reason for your choices. Take the illustration
cited above and then modify it as you see fit and
necessary.
Bob . . .
>Thanks.
>
>
>Joa
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: overvoltage condition spotting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RSwanson" <rswan19@comcast.net>
I had this happen on an older Dodge truck. It has an amp meter and it was
pegging the hand and causing the radio to go crazy. I bought a new
regulator (it is external) and it did the same thing. I carried the truck
back to the parts store (they don't usually warranty electrical parts, but
they knew me) and tried two more before I got one that worked correctly.
That was several years ago and both the alternator and regulator still work
correctly.
R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: overvoltage condition spotting
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 07:41 AM 9/9/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero
<sigmatero@yahoo.com>
> >
> >A friend of mine at work was driving his 2 year old Dodge pickup
yesterday
> >out of his driveway and he said the voltmeter pegged to the right and
the
> >truck engine immediately quit. He had it checked out by the shop
(under
> >warrantee) and they blamed it on the battery "shorting out" since
> >supposedly the alternator checked out fine.
> >
> >This is an actual confirmed siting of the elusive overvoltage
> >condition. And no my friend's name is not Elvis :)
>
> Hmmmm . . . I'm mystified as to how a shorted battery can
> produce an ov condition. This anecdote is interesting
> but lacking in data as to what really went wrong and why
> the system behaved as observed. Voltage regulation happens
> in the alternator. If the observed panel instrument is
> really a voltmeter and not an ammeter, then a gross
> indication of "too much" was observed, it doesn't make
> sense. However, a shorted battery can become a 10v battery
> and indeed produce a "too much" indication on an ammeter
> when 14v alternator comes on line and tries to charge it.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: DC power panel minutia |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
Bob,
This post prompted me to ask a question that has been bothering me for some
time. It's a duffer kind of a question, so bear with me.
How will I know if my alternator has packed up? I mean by this either OV'd
and tripped the breaker, or ANL-40 has blown. I suppose I _might_ notice a
breaker popping, but I might not, and I wouldn't know if the ANL-40 went.
It's a long-range aircraft, and I'd hate to be half-way across the water and
suddenly realise that I was running out of battery power because I hadn't
noticed it failing three hours ago.
It's a B&C 40A alternator and B&C LR3C.
Many thanks.
Nev
--
Jodel D-150 in progress
UK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DC power panel minutia
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 08:27 AM 9/9/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero
<sigmatero@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> >I am placing components in the panel. How big of hole for the breaker
> >(Im assuming 15/32 but just want to confirm) and for the low and over
> >voltage warning lights?
>
> I'm lost. Low -AND- over-voltage warning lights? Which warning
> system are you installing? Hole sizes are dependent upon the
> specific components selected.
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: overvoltage condition spotting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:39 PM 9/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RSwanson" <rswan19@comcast.net>
>
>I had this happen on an older Dodge truck. It has an amp meter and it was
>pegging the hand and causing the radio to go crazy. I bought a new
>regulator (it is external) and it did the same thing. I carried the truck
>back to the parts store (they don't usually warranty electrical parts, but
>they knew me) and tried two more before I got one that worked correctly.
>That was several years ago and both the alternator and regulator still work
>correctly.
Interesting. In this case, we know it was an ammeter and
that regulator change-out ultimately fixed what has to
be an OV problem. My skeptic's hat is still on when someone
has been told that a shorted battery caused and "OV problem" . . .
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: DC power panel minutia |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:23 PM 9/9/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
><nkilford@etravel.org>
>
>Bob,
>
>This post prompted me to ask a question that has been bothering me for some
>time. It's a duffer kind of a question, so bear with me.
>
>How will I know if my alternator has packed up? I mean by this either OV'd
>and tripped the breaker, or ANL-40 has blown. I suppose I _might_ notice a
>breaker popping, but I might not, and I wouldn't know if the ANL-40 went.
>It's a long-range aircraft, and I'd hate to be half-way across the water and
>suddenly realise that I was running out of battery power because I hadn't
>noticed it failing three hours ago.
>
>It's a B&C 40A alternator and B&C LR3C.
The LR3C is fitted with a low voltage warning feature. Within
seconds of an alternator failure event, that light is going
to be flashing in your face . . .
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: DC power panel minutia |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
I have an idiot light on my panel.
At 09:23 PM 9/9/03 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
><nkilford@etravel.org>
>
>Bob,
>
>This post prompted me to ask a question that has been bothering me for some
>time. It's a duffer kind of a question, so bear with me.
>
>How will I know if my alternator has packed up? I mean by this either OV'd
>and tripped the breaker, or ANL-40 has blown. I suppose I _might_ notice a
>breaker popping, but I might not, and I wouldn't know if the ANL-40 went.
>It's a long-range aircraft, and I'd hate to be half-way across the water and
>suddenly realise that I was running out of battery power because I hadn't
>noticed it failing three hours ago.
>
>It's a B&C 40A alternator and B&C LR3C.
>
>Many thanks.
>
>Nev
>
>--
>Jodel D-150 in progress
>UK
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DC power panel minutia
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>>
>> At 08:27 AM 9/9/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero
><sigmatero@yahoo.com>
>> >
>> >
>> >I am placing components in the panel. How big of hole for the breaker
>> >(Im assuming 15/32 but just want to confirm) and for the low and over
>> >voltage warning lights?
>>
>> I'm lost. Low -AND- over-voltage warning lights? Which warning
>> system are you installing? Hole sizes are dependent upon the
>> specific components selected.
>>
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 15
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
Hi Bob,
Just a couple of questions on your test adapter (Note 8):
1) Does it matter which way the wires are connected to the plug, adaptor, and multimeter?
2) Radio Shack only had a 1 ohm, 1 watt resistor. Will it work and will the readings
be the same?
Message 16
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| Subject: | overvoltage condition spotting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
Actually I had an ex girl friend who's regulator was bad and over
charging on her car. She was heading out of town on a couple hundred
mile drive so I offered to fix it for her. She did not want to wait the
hour for me to drive to the store pick up an alternator and install it,
heck I was going to pay for it.
So her sister was driving, not a very good driver and took a corner too
fast and the battery, which was not bolted down, fell over and shorted
the positive cable to the body. Since the engine was running this blew
the fusible link between the battery and the alternator as one would
expect. However the circuit design was such that the alternator was
still connected to the rest of the electrical system. Well to make
matters worst this happened at night so with out the battery in the
circuit to sink all that current from the alternator the voltage jumped
from around 16 volts to something ungodly, most likely 40-60v. Needless
to say every light and electrical device that was on, except for the
engine computer was fried.
All I could do was laugh very loudly when she told me the story.
I have known several "mechanics" who have said batteries were bad when
they started to magically read 16V, never realizing that the regulator
was actually bad. They would put in a new battery crank up the car and
then it would only read 15V, due to the large current draw from charging
the "new" battery. I have even seen it where a battery was warranty
several times before the customer would go to a shop with a mechanic who
had a lick of sense.
Trampas
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: DC power panel minutia |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 16:23, Neville Kilford wrote:
> How will I know if my alternator has packed up?
As luck (not good unfortunately) would have it, my
alternator died on me in flight just this past Friday.
I was 3/4 of the way to my destination, and noticed
that my ammeter started indicating a discharge rather than a
charge. I turned off a few things to make sure the needle
was moving, and landed without incident. Turns out a diode
died in the alternator. Got it repaired and returned home
without incident (although a day late).
So, my experience is that you will
notice it by checking your ammeter every once in awhile... :-)
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill Thayer School of Engineering
ThUG Sr. Unix Systems Administrator 8000 Cummings Hall
deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu - N1JOV Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH 03755
"On the side of the software box, in the 'System Requirements' section,
it said 'Requires Windows 95 or better'. So I installed Linux."
-Anonymous
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: less expensive power supply with Aeroflash heads |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns@hevanet.com>
Mark, all:
The X-pac 904 has some cool features.
It appears that although the Nova X-pac 904 beats the Whelen CometFlash supply
by 2:1 in price,
it does so at an extra 15% in current draw. This appears to be because the Whelen
flashes slower,
putting about 5% extra energy into each flash but at a 20% slower rate ( 55 vs.
70 / min ). So, if we
can believe the current draw specifications of each manufacturer, the Whelen puts
less load on your
alternator, the Nova less load on your wallet. A consideration for the power-efficient
OBAM ship...
Whelen is expensive, for sure...as the sole U.S. manufacturer of FAA-compliant
strobe heads and
power supplies, it can charge legal eagle builders what it wants. I agree, whatever
you decide
about the power supply, use the Whelen heads.
What I'd like some manufacturer to do is make a more efficient strobe power supply.
But if we're to
believe the input/output power specs that Nova quotes, strobe supplies are already
85% efficient. Not
much left to gain...
Shaun
Message 19
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| Subject: | Essential Bus in a Dual Battery System |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "kc" <samdacat@elp.rr.com>
??Where is the Essential Bus connected in the Dual Battery/Single Alternator system,
Z28/Z30?? My initial assumption was to the Main Battery Bus.
My load charts indicate the following: Battery Bus - 2.1 amps
Aux Battery
Bus - 2.6 amps
Essential
Bus - 5.0 amps
The electrical system plan is for two 17AH batteries. The total system looks reasonable
with a capacity of 34AH and a load with the main bus disconnected of
9.6 amps. But when you look at the two battery design what you have with the
main bus disconnected is the Aux battery supplying a load of 2.6 amps and the
Main battery with a load of 7.1 amps which will reduce the alternator out range
dramatically.
I have discounted the option of simply tying the two batteries together or using
a single battery because that would eliminate the separate feeds for the dual
electronic ignition and electric fuel pumps.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: DC power panel minutia |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero@yahoo.com>
>> I'm lost. Low -AND- over-voltage warning lights? Which warning
system are you installing? Hole sizes are dependent upon the
>>specific components selected.
Im installing your overvoltage protection (hasnt arrived yet and I forgot that
it had a lamp but I might want to match lamps anyway) and am going to hook up
the warning lamp off the Rotax 912 regulator too. In the future I may add a proper
low voltage warning but for now it will be interesting to see if and when
the Rotax lamp comes on (hopefully never!).
<< Suggested switch panel arrangements for the various
system configurations are illustrated at:
<<http://216.55.140.222/temp/Switches.pdf
This is great! I missed seeing it in your book or website. Could I talk you out
of the CAD version (DXF or DWG)??
Joa
Rans S-7 w/912S
---------------------------------
Message 21
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| Subject: | DC power panel minutia |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net>
Neville,
I can't speak for the B&C alternators but my alternator has a "not
charging" light. In addition, I have a high/low voltage detector. So,
when my alternators goes off-line two lights illuminate immediately (ALT
and LOW VOLTAGE) in addition to the volt gauge dropping down to ~12
volts. It's an event that is pretty hard to miss in my ship. Oh yea, I
used one of the three color flashing LEDs for the ALT light - makes it
even harder to miss.
Jon Finley
N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 455 Hrs. TT - 3 Hrs Engine
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://www.FinleyWeb.net/default.asp?id=96
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> --> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 09:23 PM 9/9/2003 +0100, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
> ><nkilford@etravel.org>
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >How will I know if my alternator has packed up? I mean by
> this either
> >OV'd and tripped the breaker, or ANL-40 has blown. I
> suppose I _might_
> >notice a breaker popping, but I might not, and I wouldn't
> know if the
> >ANL-40 went. It's a long-range aircraft, and I'd hate to be half-way
>
> The LR3C is fitted with a low voltage warning feature. Within
> seconds of an alternator failure event, that light is going
> to be flashing in your face . . .
>
> Bob . . .
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Test Adapter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:36 PM 9/9/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
>
>Hi Bob,
>Just a couple of questions on your test adapter (Note 8):
>
>1) Does it matter which way the wires are connected to the plug, adaptor,
>and multimeter?
not for a digital multimeter . . . if they're 'backwards'
you get (minus) readings as opposed to (plus) readings. It
not a problem 'cause it's the magnitude of the reading that's
interesting.
>2) Radio Shack only had a 1 ohm, 1 watt resistor. Will it work and will
>the readings be the same?
The resistor is there to prevent damage to the instrumentation
wire or disabling the alternator system should the wire become
shorted to ground. 1-ohm is will put a pretty good load on the
regulator . . . I'd rather see something bigger. The exact value is
unimportant to readings . . . input resistance of the multimeter
is many times higher. The protection resistor won't alter readings
appreciably.
I chose a 1-watt resistor for mechanical robustness. A larger
value of resistance would be in order. I can send you something
more suitable. Shoot me your mailing address.
Bob . . .
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: DC power panel minutia |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:38 PM 9/9/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Sigma Eta Aero <sigmatero@yahoo.com>
>
>
> >> I'm lost. Low -AND- over-voltage warning lights? Which warning
>
> system are you installing? Hole sizes are dependent upon the
>
> >>specific components selected.
>
>
>Im installing your overvoltage protection (hasnt arrived yet and I forgot
>that it had a lamp but I might want to match lamps anyway) and am going to
>hook up the warning lamp off the Rotax 912 regulator too. In the future I
>may add a proper low voltage warning but for now it will be interesting to
>see if and when the Rotax lamp comes on (hopefully never!).
The "warning" lamp on Rotax supplied regulator isn't
worth hooking up.
The OV protection I used to sell is the
OVM-14 crowbar ov module now sold by B&C from their website
at http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?26X358218
The OV module doesn't have a light, it simply shuts down a runaway
alternator system.
The product I sell is the Low Voltage Warning and Aux Battery
Management module at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9005/9005.html
This product in all versions has one indicator light
that flashes a low voltage warning. So if you have ordered
anything from me, IT IS a proper low voltage warning light.
><< Suggested switch panel arrangements for the various
>
> system configurations are illustrated at:
>
>
> <<http://216.55.140.222/temp/Switches.pdf
>
>
>This is great! I missed seeing it in your book or website. Could I talk
>you out of the CAD version (DXF or DWG)??
sure, click here: http://216.55.140.222/temp/SWPANEL.DWG
Bob . . .
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: DC power panel minutia |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:52 PM 9/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill
><deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
>
>On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 16:23, Neville Kilford wrote:
>
> > How will I know if my alternator has packed up?
>
>
> As luck (not good unfortunately) would have it, my
>alternator died on me in flight just this past Friday.
>I was 3/4 of the way to my destination, and noticed
>that my ammeter started indicating a discharge rather than a
>charge. I turned off a few things to make sure the needle
>was moving, and landed without incident. Turns out a diode
>died in the alternator. Got it repaired and returned home
>without incident (although a day late).
>
> So, my experience is that you will
>notice it by checking your ammeter every once in awhile... :-)
Or you can install active notification of low voltage
as described at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/LVWarn-ABMM.html
and
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/9021-620.pdf
or offered complete at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
This simple system will tell you within a few seconds that
the alternator has failed while it may take some time
(if ever) to catch the ammeter reading.
Bob . . .
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Test Adapter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Bob -
I missed this thread. Would you post the info on this test adaptor or where
one could download it.
Many Thanks,
John
>> 2) Radio Shack only had a 1 ohm, 1 watt resistor. Will it work and will
>> the readings be the same?
>
> The resistor is there to prevent damage to the instrumentation
> wire or disabling the alternator system should the wire become
> shorted to ground. 1-ohm is will put a pretty good load on the
> regulator . . . I'd rather see something bigger. The exact value is
> unimportant to readings . . . input resistance of the multimeter
> is many times higher. The protection resistor won't alter readings
> appreciably.
>
> I chose a 1-watt resistor for mechanical robustness. A larger
> value of resistance would be in order. I can send you something
> more suitable. Shoot me your mailing address.
>
> Bob . . .
Message 26
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| Subject: | overvoltage condition spotting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:37 PM 9/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>
>Actually I had an ex girl friend who's regulator was bad and over
>charging on her car. She was heading out of town on a couple hundred
>mile drive so I offered to fix it for her.
<snip>
> I have even seen it where a battery was warranty
>several times before the customer would go to a shop with a mechanic who
>had a lick of sense.
FBO mechanics can be as bad. I had customers
at our airport relate similar tales of woe before
they brought their airplane out to our mechanics.
Our guys weren't real whippy electro-winnies either but
after I poked around a bit with the voltmeter,
we could usually get the REAL problem identified
and fixed.
Had one customer who had forked out nearly $1,000
in regulator and alternator work to fix an unstable
bus voltage. We had to gig him a couple $hundred$
more for time and materials to fix all the high
resistance joints in the bus-to-regulator feedpath
which ultimately fixed the problem. There never was
anything wrong with his high-dollar hardware.
Bob . . .
Message 27
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| Subject: | VHF transmit problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <2putt@cox-internet.com>
Garmin 430 pre-wired by John Stark with a PS Engineering PM3000 stereo interphone.
Would the use of mono headsets preclude the ability to transmit on the Garmin
radio?? I transmit only a "click" from either PTT switch but no voice.
Reception is normal and strong. I'm assuming the transmitter could care less
about mono or stereo????? Thanx in advance. Steve
Steve&Terri Chambers
2putt@cox-internet.com
479-855-3088
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: DC power panel minutia |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> This simple system will tell you within a few seconds that
> the alternator has failed while it may take some time
> (if ever) to catch the ammeter reading.
> Bob . . .
Yes, but IMHO you should be checking both if you have
a lamp and a meter. Bulbs can die, and it is just good practice to
scan all your gauges on occasion... :-)
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill Thayer School of Engineering
ThUG Sr. Unix Systems Administrator 8000 Cummings Hall
deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu - N1JOV Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH 03755
"On the side of the software box, in the 'System Requirements' section,
it said 'Requires Windows 95 or better'. So I installed Linux." -Anonymous
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Little recognition lights |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "KeithHallsten" <KeithHallsten@quiknet.com>
Jim,
Yes, I found several sources for MR16 fixtures (including cheap driving lights
from Wal-Mart). However, my target is a 1.5" diameter or smaller. That's why
I'm trying to find a source for sockets for MR11 or MR8 lamps. Anyone have a
line on those?
Keith
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comcast.net>
Keith,
Try Allelectronics for both MR16 bulbs and the QRX-4 base for $1.25. The MR11
socket is harder to find, and there are not nearly as many choices for wattage
and beam width. I'm using MR16s in my J400, making the fixture out of thin aluminum
with this lamp.
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category320400&typestore is the URL for the catalog page.
Jim Foerster
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