Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:53 AM - Re: DC power panel minutia (Neville Kilford)
2. 05:50 AM - Re: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:16 AM - Re: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass Bolt? (BobsV35B@aol.com)
4. 07:03 AM - Re: Charging Issues (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:06 AM - Re: DC power panel minutia (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:09 AM - Re: Question: Bob's Bus Icons (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:25 AM - Re: Wig-wag flasher questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 08:57 AM - Re: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass Bolt? (Cy Galley)
9. 09:43 AM - Re: Magneto with electronic Ignition (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 09:43 AM - Re: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 09:45 AM - Re: Ground block location (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 10:23 AM - Re: Ground block location (Ralph E. Capen)
13. 11:39 AM - Re: Wig-wag flasher questions (Jeff Point)
14. 12:09 PM - Re: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass Bolt? (Chris Stone)
15. 12:47 PM - New SPAM and Virus Filtering Appliance At Matronics... (dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle))
16. 01:11 PM - Re: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 01:30 PM - Re: Forward Voltage Drop (Wig-wag) (Eric M. Jones)
18. 01:43 PM - AV-10 failure... (I-Blackler, Wayne R)
19. 03:18 PM - DIP headers for DIY Audio project (Robinson, Chad)
20. 04:48 PM - Re: AV-10 failure... (Robert McCallum)
21. 06:30 PM - Failure analysis to plagiarize? (Treff, Arthur)
22. 08:43 PM - [Tagged] Failure analysis to plagiarize? (Eric M. Jones)
23. 09:43 PM - MFJ-259B (John F. Herminghaus)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: DC power panel minutia |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
Bob,
> >How will I know if my alternator has packed up? I mean by this either
OV'd
> The LR3C is fitted with a low voltage warning feature. Within
> seconds of an alternator failure event, that light is going
> to be flashing in your face . . .
That's good to know. What makes it start to flash -- is it that the LR3C
detects the absence of charge, or is it simply a product of voltage drop?
I'm somewhat unclear on that sort of thing.
Cheers.
Nev
--
Jodel D150 in progress
UK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DC power panel minutia
> At 09:23 PM 9/9/2003 +0100, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
> ><nkilford@etravel.org>
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >This post prompted me to ask a question that has been bothering me for
some
> >time. It's a duffer kind of a question, so bear with me.
> >
> >How will I know if my alternator has packed up? I mean by this either
OV'd
> >and tripped the breaker, or ANL-40 has blown. I suppose I _might_ notice
a
> >breaker popping, but I might not, and I wouldn't know if the ANL-40 went.
> >It's a long-range aircraft, and I'd hate to be half-way across the water
and
> >suddenly realise that I was running out of battery power because I hadn't
> >noticed it failing three hours ago.
> >
> >It's a B&C 40A alternator and B&C LR3C.
>
> The LR3C is fitted with a low voltage warning feature. Within
> seconds of an alternator failure event, that light is going
> to be flashing in your face . . .
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass |
Bolt?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:45 PM 9/13/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neal Garvin" <ngarvin@comcast.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>I used an AN-4 bolt, not brass, to connect two large, soldered on wire lugs
>together on a solid fiberglass tab on the inside of the fuselage behind the
>panel. The two lugs are on the same side of the tab, back-to-back, not
>separated by the fiberglass.
>
>The reason I didn't use brass is I wanted to really mash it down to get that
>"air-tight" connection and I was concerned a brass bolt would break to
>easily. Should I keep a watch for any dis-similar metal corrosion or other
>problems related to using an AN bolt?
The resistance of plated steel hardware is significantly
higher than the copper alloys recommended for current
carrying hardware supplied in our grounding kits. If the
bolt simply supplies pressure to hold current carrying
components together, then the AN hardware is okay. When
the bolt has both assembly -AND- current carrying
responsibilities, it should be brass.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass Bolt? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 9/15/03 7:51:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
> The resistance of plated steel hardware is significantly
> higher than the copper alloys recommended for current
> carrying hardware supplied in our grounding kits. If the
> bolt simply supplies pressure to hold current carrying
> components together, then the AN hardware is okay. When
> the bolt has both assembly -AND- current carrying
> responsibilities, it should be brass.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Good Morning Bob,
Just curiosity sparked by my sailing days, how would bronze bolts fare?
If I recall, bronze is stronger than brass and should be capable of handling
a higher torque. What would the electrical characteristics be?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Charging Issues |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Just a note to let you know that after following your advice by changing
the wiring in my charging system everything did smooth out nicely.
The ammeter is now steady, and the voltage has stabilized at 14.4
Pleased to hear there was a practical solution
to the problem . . .
The job however was back breaking. Working under the panel on a completed
RV is tough, but after a test flight one more trip to secure some
wire and I hope to be out of there for a while.
Been there and done that . . . not sure there ever
was an airplane that was maintenance friendly.
Good luck!
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: DC power panel minutia |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:52 AM 9/15/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
><nkilford@etravel.org>
>
>Bob,
>
> > >How will I know if my alternator has packed up? I mean by this either
>OV'd
>
> > The LR3C is fitted with a low voltage warning feature. Within
> > seconds of an alternator failure event, that light is going
> > to be flashing in your face . . .
>
>That's good to know. What makes it start to flash -- is it that the LR3C
>detects the absence of charge, or is it simply a product of voltage drop?
>I'm somewhat unclear on that sort of thing.
Low voltage warning is just that . . . low voltage warning.
Batteries charge and alternators run at 13.8 and higher.
Batteries discharge at 12.5 and lower. So if you watch the
bus and turn on a light below 13.0 volts, it's as useful
an indication as any that the alternator is not doing it's
job.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Question: Bob's Bus Icons |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:09 AM 9/14/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "dmorisse"
><morid@northland.lib.mi.us>
>
>I tried to find Bob's bus icons in Aeroelectric.com, but was unable. Can
>someone give me a link to them please?
>Darrel
Icons? Do you mean the drawing symbols? You can download
any of the drawings in .dwg AutoCAD format from
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html
and cut-n-paste any symbols used into a new drawing
if you have compatible software. There are three
compatible cad programs offered as well as all of
the drawings on CD Rom which you can purchase
at http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
or download at:
www.matronics.com/aeroelectric/library/CDs/AEC8_0.zip
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Wig-wag flasher questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:04 AM 9/13/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Regarding the wig-wag flasher wiring diagram on your website, I have a
>couple of questions:
>
>1. I would like to use the single switch method on page 3 of the
>diagram, but I would like to wire it such that the middle position is
>"On" and the upper position is "Flash." It appears that I can do this
>just by reversing the outputs of pins 1 & 4 on the switch. Is this
>true, or am I missing something.
That will work.
>2. I am concerned about the voltage drop using the bridge rectifier
>causing a reduction in brightness of the lamps. I believe the
>Connection says that these diodes have a forward voltage drop of about
>.6V. My own measurements show this drop to be about .8V when used in my
>E-bus setup. This is using the diode I got from B & C. I picked up a
>similar diode from the Shack, pn 276-1185, and it lists the forward
>voltage drop as 1.7V. Is this at the full 50V? Is the drop linear with
>respect to input voltage? Does it vary with current? Most importantly,
>does this small voltage drop result in a noticeable loss of light at the
>lamp?
Try this. Have a friend set in his car 1/2 mile away on a dark road
and have him turn on his headlights ten times in a row for about 5
seconds each time.
Ask him to randomly have the engine running (bus 14.5 or higher) and engine
not running (bus 13.0 or lower) for each on-cycle. Ask him to start
and stop the engine only while the lights are off.
You watch the ten flashes of headlights and write down whether
you perceive the bus voltage in his car to be above or below
13 volts for each interval of observable light. My guess is that
your listing of perceived lamp intensity for each interval will
have no relation to fact . . . if indeed you perceive any
difference at all.
By the way, the 1.7v drop rating is the specified MAX drop
for a diode under some conditions which are never realized
in the steady state application for the part is used.
I can pick out cars with failed alternators on the highway
but it has to do with COLOR of the light and not intensity.
So try see if you can discern any color differences in the light
for the experiment described above.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass Bolt? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
I have been biting my tongue on this thread. It is good if you are using a
bronze or brass bolt for a ground point. It is weaker but as it isn't
structural, its strength is immaterial. If you break it by overtightening,
replace it with another brass or bronze bolt as you want the conductivity,
not super strength. The most important fixture in your house is held with
brass or bronze bolts! They work well other wise you couldn't give a....
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
Actively supporting Aeroncas every day
Quarterly newsletters on time
Reasonable document reprints
----- Original Message -----
From: <BobsV35B@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass Bolt?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 9/15/03 7:51:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
> bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
>
> > The resistance of plated steel hardware is significantly
> > higher than the copper alloys recommended for current
> > carrying hardware supplied in our grounding kits. If the
> > bolt simply supplies pressure to hold current carrying
> > components together, then the AN hardware is okay. When
> > the bolt has both assembly -AND- current carrying
> > responsibilities, it should be brass.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>
> Good Morning Bob,
>
> Just curiosity sparked by my sailing days, how would bronze bolts fare?
>
> If I recall, bronze is stronger than brass and should be capable of
handling
> a higher torque. What would the electrical characteristics be?
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Magneto with electronic Ignition |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:58 PM 9/13/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
><lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
>Members of the Aeroelectric List: I am looking at figure Z-27 ( page Z-20 )
>showing the use of two (2-3) switches to control each ignition side and to
>kill the push to start circuit when the right side ignition is on. I see
>that to initially start the engine we turn on the left and close/flip/press
>the start switch or button. ( The right ignition switch must be off for
>starting) After the engine is started and running on the left side only, we
>close the right side ignition for normal dual ignition operations. (With
>that, it is impossible to energize the starter with the right side ignition
>on.)
>
>Now my question: I am not understanding how this two-switch setup in Z-27
>allows for run up testing of each side of the ignition system. I am missing
>something about how magnetos work or how they are grounded out so they do
>not function. We prove the right ignition function, I deduce, by turning
>off the left ignition/magneto switch. Then we turn the left switch back on
>and continue with testing the right side. But, looks to me when I go to
>prove the left ignition by turning off the right ignition switch that the
>engine should die because both the right side AND the start switch provide
>energy for the left side. ( Or is the left side now running on its own and
>does not need energy from the main buss? ) I am missing something and need
>a dumb boy's 101 schooling session here. ( Understanding something is one
>step further than knowing something.)
There is an error in Figure Z-27. The intent was to show
how to interlock the ignition switches to disable a non-impulse
coupled magneto when paired with an electronic ignition.
Here's the corrected drawing:
http://216.55.140.222/articles/Appendix_Z_Drawings/Z-27_r11.pdf
Thanks for the heads-up. You're the first to catch this
problem . . .
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass |
Bolt?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:14 AM 9/15/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 9/15/03 7:51:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
>bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
>
> > The resistance of plated steel hardware is significantly
> > higher than the copper alloys recommended for current
> > carrying hardware supplied in our grounding kits. If the
> > bolt simply supplies pressure to hold current carrying
> > components together, then the AN hardware is okay. When
> > the bolt has both assembly -AND- current carrying
> > responsibilities, it should be brass.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>
>Good Morning Bob,
>
>Just curiosity sparked by my sailing days, how would bronze bolts fare?
>
>If I recall, bronze is stronger than brass and should be capable of handling
>a higher torque. What would the electrical characteristics be?
Copper, brass and bronze will exhibit tensile strengths on
the order of 50K, 100K and 200K psi for each material. Conductivity
will be 100%, 28% and 13% for the various alloys. So, it's
a trade off . . . Fat copper bolts for strength or VERY fat bronze
bolts for conductivity. Iron and steel are on the same order
as bronze for conductivity.
Brass hardware is readily available and a reasonable compromise.
Even so, conductivity is not likely to become an issue in most airplanes
until you step up to 100A plus systems with lots of electric
heat or air conditioning loads that can be high and sustained.
But steel hardware with high electrical loading IS a concern.
The only electrical fire I ever started was the result of
mis-applied steel hardware in the conduction path.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Ground block location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:18 PM 9/13/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: WHigg1170@aol.com
>
>Hello I have a question on the B&C 24 terminal ground block location. I don't
>have the engine or mount and I want to place the ground block on the cabin
>side of the firewall but don't know were to put it so it won't be in the
>way and
>also still use vans #2 cables that came with the wiring harness kit. Thanks
>
>Bill
>RV-6
Can any RV builders help Bill out with this?
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Ground block location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Not knowing about the #2 cables in the kit - but I have done a bit of
research and have installed my ground block to the right of the cutout for
the oil filter/governor indent.
With the battery in the original location the cable run shouldn't be more
than 12". I am getting documentation on placing the battery on the engine
side (a la RV7/9) - with the other side of the ground block giving me a
similar cable access hopefully to the new location.
Contact me offline and I can send you some digitals......and point you to
the research that I have done.....again I don't know about the cables in the
kit!
Ralph Capen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground block location
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 12:18 PM 9/13/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: WHigg1170@aol.com
> >
> >Hello I have a question on the B&C 24 terminal ground block location. I
don't
> >have the engine or mount and I want to place the ground block on the
cabin
> >side of the firewall but don't know were to put it so it won't be in the
> >way and
> >also still use vans #2 cables that came with the wiring harness kit.
Thanks
> >
> >Bill
> >RV-6
>
> Can any RV builders help Bill out with this?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Wig-wag flasher questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
That leads me to my next question. I have the LR3C voltage regulator,
which is set to 14.4V from the factory (according to the manual, haven't
measured it.) I am using the Panasonic 17 amp battery, which wants 14.5
to 14.9V for cycle use charging. The battery is on the engine side of
the firewall. Should I set the regulator to 14.5, 14.9 or somewhere in
between? I am not terribly worried about the heat effecting the long
term life of the battery; for $36 from Digikey I can afford to swap it
out at every annual if necessary.
Here is the data sheet on the battery, for reference:
http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Panasonic/Web%20data/LC-RD1217P,%20LC-RD1217AP.pdf
Jeff Point
>
> By the way, the 1.7v drop rating is the specified MAX drop
> for a diode under some conditions which are never realized
> in the steady state application for the part is used.
>
> I can pick out cars with failed alternators on the highway
> but it has to do with COLOR of the light and not intensity.
> So try see if you can discern any color differences in the light
> for the experiment described above.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass Bolt? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Stone" <Chris.Stone@a-dec.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls@cox.net]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass
Bolt?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
--> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:14 AM 9/15/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 9/15/03 7:51:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
>bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
>
> > The resistance of plated steel hardware is significantly
> > higher than the copper alloys recommended for current
> > carrying hardware supplied in our grounding kits. If the
> > bolt simply supplies pressure to hold current carrying
> > components together, then the AN hardware is okay. When
> > the bolt has both assembly -AND- current carrying
> > responsibilities, it should be brass.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>
>Good Morning Bob,
>
>Just curiosity sparked by my sailing days, how would bronze bolts fare?
>
>If I recall, bronze is stronger than brass and should be capable of
>handling a higher torque. What would the electrical characteristics
>be?
Copper, brass and bronze will exhibit tensile strengths on
the order of 50K, 100K and 200K psi for each material. Conductivity
will be 100%, 28% and 13% for the various alloys. So, it's
a trade off . . . Fat copper bolts for strength or VERY fat bronze
bolts for conductivity. Iron and steel are on the same order
as bronze for conductivity.
Brass hardware is readily available and a reasonable compromise.
Even so, conductivity is not likely to become an issue in most
airplanes
until you step up to 100A plus systems with lots of electric
heat or air conditioning loads that can be high and sustained.
But steel hardware with high electrical loading IS a concern.
The only electrical fire I ever started was the result of
mis-applied steel hardware in the conduction path.
Bob . . .
Actually the Ultimate tensile strength for the three red metals
mentioned are:
UNS C11000 electrolytic copper (full hard) 48 KSI (48,000 psi),
(full soft) 32 KSI
UNS C360 Free cutting brass (full hard) 68 KSI, (full soft) 49 KSI
UNS C932 Bearing Bronze (83% Cu) 35 KSI
UNS C1018 cold rolled steel (commercial grade bolts) 64 KSI, AN bolts
100 - 140 KSI
As you can see from the mechanical properties of these materials that
both copper and brass have reasonably good mechanical strength with good
electrical conductivity. Bronze has poor mechanical strength and poor
conductivity.
Chris Stone
ME
RV-8 wings
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 15
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| Subject: | New SPAM and Virus Filtering Appliance At Matronics... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Dear Listers,
I will be installing a new SPAM and virus blocking appliance this
evening or tomorrow. The installation will involve some changes
in the Matronics DNS MX records, and will impact how incoming
email is handled. While I expect these changes to be transparent
to all of the List subscribers, things might go differently... ;-)
The Lists get bombarded with tons of SPAM messages and viruses
each day and fortunately my custom filters have been extremely
effective at filtering most of this from redistribution. Its
time to move to the next level of technology, however, and this
SPAM and Virus filtering appliance seems like an excellent
solution.
I will post a follow up message later in the week when things
have stabilized and I have some filter statistics to share.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
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Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 16
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| Subject: | Large Elec Connection - AN vs Brass |
Bolt?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>
>Actually the Ultimate tensile strength for the three red metals
>mentioned are:
>
>UNS C11000 electrolytic copper (full hard) 48 KSI (48,000 psi),
>(full soft) 32 KSI
>
>UNS C360 Free cutting brass (full hard) 68 KSI, (full soft) 49 KSI
>
>UNS C932 Bearing Bronze (83% Cu) 35 KSI
>
>UNS C1018 cold rolled steel (commercial grade bolts) 64 KSI, AN bolts
>100 - 140 KSI
>
>As you can see from the mechanical properties of these materials that
>both copper and brass have reasonably good mechanical strength with good
>electrical conductivity. Bronze has poor mechanical strength and poor
>conductivity.
I went back to see where I dug up the earlier numbers. I see
that my bronze strength was acquired by clicking on
the wrong box . . . Beryllium Copper.
Yup, bronze is not so nearly robust a stuff but I don't
think they would make bolts out of bearing/bushing material.
http://www.precisionsteel.com/intro5.cfm?Properties=True&ProductType=BronzeA
suggests that we can heat treat to something on the order
of 98Kpsi although one would probably have to special
order such parts. I suspect bronze marine hardware
is not nearly so robust.
Cy's point was rather profound . . . these are, after
all, not structural parts . . . however I will suggest
they are single points of failure for the system. A
quick look at recommended torque values for brass hardware
has most authors coming down at just under low-carbon
steel fasteners. 5/16-18 threaded hardware (supplied with
B&C ground busses) can certainly be torqued to 100 lb-in
which should cover us well for both electrical concerns
about fastener conductivity and mechanical concerns for
terminal crush.
Bob . . .
>Chris Stone
>ME
>RV-8 wings
>
>
>direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Forward Voltage Drop (Wig-wag) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>2. I am concerned about the voltage drop using the bridge rectifier
>causing a reduction in brightness of the lamps. I believe the
>Connection says that these diodes have a forward voltage drop of about
>.6V. My own measurements show this drop to be about .8V when used in my
>E-bus setup. This is using the diode I got from B & C. I picked up a
>similar diode from the Shack, pn 276-1185, and it lists the forward
>voltage drop as 1.7V. Is this at the full 50V? Is the drop linear with
>respect to input voltage? Does it vary with current? Most importantly,
>does this small voltage drop result in a noticeable loss of light at the
>lamp?
>Try this. Have a friend set in his car 1/2 mile away on a dark road
>and have him turn on his headlights ten times in a row for about 5
>seconds each time.
Now Bob....Jeff got to this argument late, so let me rehash--
If you run Radio Shack diode, pn 276-1185 with a current of 5 amps, you wind
up with 0.85 Volts drop. At 16A you get 0.94V. The forward voltage drop Vf
is not linear and goes up with temperature and current (not voltage) and is
maximum at max current. I don't think Radio Shack sells any 1.7Vf parts, but
you can measure this with any meter.
Reasonable people differ on this but I think it is there is a lot to be said
for using Schottky diodes in this application. At 5 amps the Vf is only
0.32V, at 16 A it is 0.35V.
Now why would anyone care about such small Vf differences? Well, it's
because the electricity you use in an airplane or by a battery OR by an
airplane battery(!) is expensive stuff indeed. And the use of power
Schottkys is the engineering standard in battery operated systems, and where
power loss is critical. Contemporary designers don't use p/n diodes in
low-volt power applications.
How much power is lost? There are a lot of ways to paint it but
Powerloss=IV(forward). So for 16A you lose 16x0.94Watts=15 Watts. This is
dissipated as heat so you'll need a big heatsink. For the Schottky you'll
lose 16X0.35=5.6 Watts so you need only a very small heatsink if any at all.
And yes it is easy to see the difference in lamp brightness.
I don't know how you calculate the energy costs in an airplane, but the
ultimate cost of using P/N diodes (especially in a bridge) has got to be
significant. So use Schottkys. Buy mine or get your own.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
When the Okies moved to California
they raised the average IQ of both states.
---Will Rogers
Message 18
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| Subject: | AV-10 failure... |
<canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "I-Blackler, Wayne R" <wayne.blackler@boeing.com>
Hi all,
I have an AV-10 Engine Monitor installed in my Long EZ. The unit failed totally
in August (prior to first flight) and I have been unable to contact Peter Rummell
(AV-10 engineer) for support/repair. Peter had been supplying solid support
via email for my installation in June / July '03. This has delayed my first
flight. I know a number of you are running these units. I could really use a
current phone number or any other contact information if you have it.
I have tried the following contact details:
AFA
Peter Rummell
60 Penn Ave,
Toronto, Ontario, M2L 1N1
Canada
40 McNab Blvd
Scarborough, Ontario, M1M 2W5
Canada
EMAIL:
afatechsupport@rogers.com
lindaryall@rogers.com
wedgie@interlog.com
Phone numbers:
416 264 0968 (what I thought was current)
416 593 9990
426 264 5134 (old)
1800 737 9185 (old)
416 698 6928 (old)
Many thanks,
Regards
Wayne Blackler
IO-360 Long EZ
Seattle, USA
(253) 520 0447 (AH)
(253) 773 9829 (BH)
Message 19
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| Subject: | DIP headers for DIY Audio project |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robinson, Chad" <crobinson@rfgonline.com>
To the person who was asking about DIP headers for the DIY audio mixer amp, Web-Tronics
also carries these at reasonable prices:
http://www.web-tronics.com/general-supplies-for-electronics-sockets-forked-dip-headers.html
Bob, DigiKey still doesn't have stock on this part - they may be discontinuing
it. You may want to list the source above (or another) as an alternate source
for this part, or update the document to reflect a different method of installing
those resistors. For what it's worth, the firm above also sells other items
that may be useful in this project, including PCB fabrication products, project
boxes, DB-x connectors, etc.
Regards,
Chad
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: AV-10 failure... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
I-Blackler, Wayne R wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "I-Blackler, Wayne R" <wayne.blackler@boeing.com>
>
>Hi all,
>
>I have an AV-10 Engine Monitor installed in my Long EZ.I have been unable to contact
Peter Rummell (AV-10 engineer) for support/repair. Peter had been supplying
solid support via email for my installation in June / July '03. I could
really use a current phone number or any other contact information if you have
it.
>
>I have tried the following contact details:
>
>AFA
>Peter Rummell
>60 Penn Ave.,
>Toronto, Ontario, M2L 1N1
>Canada
>
>40 McNab Blvd
>Scarborough, Ontario, M1M 2W5
>Canada
>
>EMAIL:
>afatechsupport@rogers.com
>lindaryall@rogers.com
>wedgie@interlog.com
>
>Phone numbers:
>416 264 0968 (what I thought was current)
>416 593 9990
>426 264 5134 (old)
>1800 737 9185 (old)
>416 698 6928 (old)
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Regards
>
>Wayne Blackler
>IO-360 Long EZ
>Seattle, USA
>(253) 520 0447 (AH)
>(253) 773 9829 (BH)
>
Wayne;
The telephone number 416-593-9990 is currently listed in the Toronto
electronic phone directory as P. Rummell, 43 Elm St., Toronto, ON.,
Canada M5G-2K5 The number 416-264-0968 is listed as "unknown",
416-264-5134 is P. Rummell, Scarborough, ON Canada, M1M-2W5 (no street
address given), 416-698-6928 is T. Craigie, Scarborough, ON Canada,
M1N-1V6. The 1-800 number I don't have access to check. The "valid"
numbers are both residential.
Hopefully with one of these numbers you can restore your contact. Note
you have an area code error in one of your numbers, one of the "old"
numbers seems to have been re-assigned, and the number you show as
"current" appears to be no longer valid.
Bob McC
Message 21
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| Subject: | Failure analysis to plagiarize? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Treff, Arthur" <Arthur.Treff@Smartm.com>
Listers,
I"m in the process of creating a Failure Effects Mode Analysis to check my work
on panel/electrical system design for my RV-8. Also, this will be used to show
the FAA DAR that I know what I'm doing in building an IFR capable ship. I
have never done this on the job, so I'm trying to teach myself. So far, I have
pages of statements followed by bullets, which is cumbersome, requiring a ton
of reading to get to the point. I would prefer a graphical format, but I'm
not creative enough to design one. Has one of you gone thru with something similar,
and if so, would you be willing to share how your analysis looks with
this beginner?
Arthur Treff
Asheville, NC
828-281-0044
RV-8 N666AT (reserved)
Message 22
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| Subject: | [Tagged] Failure analysis to plagiarize? |
HTML_MESSAGE
HTML_MESSAGE (0.1 points) BODY: HTML included in message
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Type into Google "free fault tree analysis" and see what happens.
Eric
Message 23
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John F. Herminghaus" <catignano@tele2.it>
Bob:
Sometime ago you recommended the MFJ-259B SWR analyzer, but according
the specifications (1.8 to 170 MHZ) it does not cover GPS frequencies.
What do you suggest?
John Herminghaus
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