---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/25/03: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:21 AM - DIY Audio Isolation Amplifier question (Charlie Kuss) 2. 08:28 AM - Re: Connecting Whelen Strobes (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 09:56 AM - Re: DIY Audio Isolation Amplifier question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 10:53 AM - Resolver vs Converter education (Ralph E. Capen) 5. 01:28 PM - Re: Resolver vs Converter education (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 01:39 PM - Re: Resolver vs Converter education (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 03:08 PM - Resolver vs Converter => composite? (Ralph E. Capen) 8. 03:19 PM - Instrument cutouts (PeterHunt1@aol.com) 9. 04:43 PM - H10-40 Headsets for sale (Sold) (Fred Stucklen) 10. 04:50 PM - Re: DIY Audio Isolation Amplifier question (Charlie Kuss) 11. 05:21 PM - Suitability of a computer serial mouse wiring harness for (Charlie Kuss) 12. 05:45 PM - Re: Suitability of a computer serial mouse wiring (Jim Streit) 13. 07:46 PM - connecting Whelen strobes (2) (BAKEROCB@aol.com) 14. 08:48 PM - Re: connecting Whelen strobes (2) (Larry Bowen) 15. 08:56 PM - Re: Resolver vs Converter => composite? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 08:58 PM - Re: Connecting Whelen Strobes (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 09:06 PM - King KX 145 push to talk (Jeff Deuchar) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:42 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: AeroElectric-List: DIY Audio Isolation Amplifier question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Bob, I have a neophyte's question. How do I split the output from your stereo DIY audio isolation amplifier to two headsets? Am I to route the output into a stereo intercom to accomplish this? Charlie Kuss RV-8A cockpit systems stuff ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:10 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connecting Whelen Strobes --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 12:21 AM 9/25/2003 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" > >I'm installing the light/strobe in the rudder and am confused about this >drain wire. > >I found the post below in the archives that asks many of the same >questions I have, but I didn't find a reply to questions 1-5. Anyone >know? > >- >Larry Bowen >Larry@BowenAero.com >http://BowenAero.com > > > AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, >III" > > > >Bob/Others - First - I bleieve you recommend attaching both ends of the > >Whelen >strobe shielding on composites. What's the best way to attach >the AL >foil, > >solder wire to it? I've installed a Molex connector for service at the > > >strake-wing junction, what kind of connector would you recommend there, > > >another Molex? And finally, would it be sufficient to put a ring >terminal > >under the mounting screw for the ground connection at the light >fixture, > >or should I solder the sheild to the housing, or what? > > There is a bare, stranded wired IN ADDITION to the three insulated >wires > under the shield. This forth wire is called a "drain wire" and its >purpose > is to provide you with a convenient means for making electrical >connection > to the shield-foil which is, as you've noted, impossible to make > connection with. You can extend the drain wire with a short piece of > wire, install a ring terminal and attach to mounting screw for >fixture. > If you DON'T do this, in all probability, you won't know the >difference.>> > >6/29/2003 > >Hello Bob Nuckolls and Bret Ferrell, I'd like to flog this horse a few >more >lashes. > >1) Bob Nuckolls really says the drain wire should be attached at both >ends on >a composite aircraft? But not on a metal aircraft? Why? Actually, the answer was a tad short on info . . . if the fixture is mounted on an insulated surface (either composite airplane or composite tip cap on a metal airplane) it is sometimes helpful to ground the base of the strobe lamp assembly to the drain wire that brings strobe power out to the fixture . . . back in the 60's when strobes were the exception as opposed to the rule, we went through some gyrations to reduce the "flash pop" noise that would appear in the headphones when tuned to weak stations. Extending the shield ground to the strobe base -AND- adding a conductive mesh to the inside surface of the strobe lamp lens did help but didn't reduce it to zero. The full answer should say, it won't hurt to ground your otherwise insulated strobe fixture to the shield of the strobe feeder . . . but it may not help a darn thing either. If the fixture is mounted to a metalic surface that is common to the airframe, don't hook your remote end shield drain to anything . . . >2) When one receives the strobe light installation kit from Whelen the >cable >already has two AMP plastic 3 wire connectors attached, one on each end. >These > >connectors are the ones that plug into the mating 3 wire connectors at >the >strobe light ends. After cutting the cable somewhere in the middle and >snaking > >those two cut ends through the airframe to the vicinity of the strobe >power >supply one installs the other two (different) appropriate 3 wire >connectors >provided by Whelen and plugs the cables into the power supply. Sounds like a good plan to me . . . >3) The installation instructions say that the drain wire should be >connected >to the housing / mounting of the power supply. Easy enough to do by >leaving >the drain wire longer when you cut the cable, strip it, and install the >3 wire > >connectors that plug into the power supply. . . . another good plan. Somebody goofed when they designed that system. The connectors at the power supply should have been 4-pin devices with a pin dedicated to the shield ground. Actually, if one had a schematic of the power supply, you may find that the black wire in the strobe cable is internally connected to case ground. If this is true, then your shield drain wire COULD be legitimately crimped into the connector pin along with the black wire. >4) But out at the strobe light end of the cable where the Whelen >installed >connectors are, Whelen has left no access to the drain wire. I suppose >one could > >cut back the plastic covering, remove the aluminum shield, attach a >short >wire to the now exposed drain wire, and then attach that short wire to >some metal > >part of the strobe light housing, but I find this action both puzzling >and >unnecessary. Strip back 6" of outer jacket, remove all exposed shield foil. Cut inner conductors to about 1.5" and install connector. this leaves you a 6" pigtail of shield drain wire to apply terminal and bolt to base. >5) Whelen has thousands of these units in service throughout the skies >mounted on both metal surfaces and composite wing tips. I am unaware of >any need >to >go through the additonal effort of connecting the drain wire to the >metal >light housing out at the strobe light end. Can anyone show me different? Depends on how you define "need" . . . virtually EVERY airplane I rent has some kind of audible noise in the audio that comes from some other system. Most of the time, it's too low to be a nuisance compared to cabin noise. Some times it's audible but considered too small to be worth the labor of chasing it out of the system. The technique we're discussing has more to do with craftsmanship founded on an understanding of the physics and nothing to do with a personal perception of need or utility. Lots of airplanes fly satisfactorily without paint, spinners, wheel pants, or even an electrical system. Airplanes that DO have these features are crafted by individuals who satisfied their own perceptions of utility that may well differ from yours. If you want to let your strobe shields dangle, it is after all an OBAM aircraft . . . but when it's not hard to do, why not? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:42 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DIY Audio Isolation Amplifier question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:08 AM 9/25/2003 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss > >Bob, > I have a neophyte's question. How do I split the output from your stereo > DIY audio isolation amplifier to two headsets? Am I to route the output > into a stereo intercom to accomplish this? Two mono headsets or stereo headsets. Do you have an intercom selected? Stereo or Mono? The last two pages of http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9009/9009-700C.pdf illustrate variations on these themes. Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( and still understand nothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:34 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Resolver vs Converter education --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" Fellow listers, My UPSAT SL30 outputs both converter and resolver signals for an external CDI. That and my GX60 are switched through the ACU for input to the whatever brand CDI. I have a NSD-1000 HSI that I am installing in the panel of my RV6A which takes both of these signal types - this is intended to be the primary CDI. The Narco NAV122D/GPS that I have will also take these signals as inputs. The instructions for my SL30 indicate that the resolver signals need to be calibrated and should not be switched. These instructions also state that supplemental CDI's should use converter signals only. I'm trying to understand the functionality provided by these different type of signals.... Are they complementary - or similar in functionality? Can one set of signals be used without the other? Thanks, Ralph Capen Soooooo many little wires ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:28:59 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Resolver vs Converter education --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 12:53 PM 9/25/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" > > >Fellow listers, > >My UPSAT SL30 outputs both converter and resolver signals for an external >CDI. That and my GX60 are switched through the ACU for input to the >whatever brand CDI. > >I have a NSD-1000 HSI that I am installing in the panel of my RV6A which >takes both of these signal types - this is intended to be the primary >CDI. The Narco NAV122D/GPS that I have will also take these signals as >inputs. > >The instructions for my SL30 indicate that the resolver signals need to be >calibrated and should not be switched. These instructions also state that >supplemental CDI's should use converter signals only. > >I'm trying to understand the functionality provided by these different >type of signals.... > >Are they complementary - or similar in functionality? Can one set of >signals be used without the other? "resolver" data is a throwback to omni-bearing-selection technology that goes all the way back to the vacuum tube "Super-Homers" and "Omingators" of the early 60's that began with 4-tap, 360-degree rotation potentiometers and ultimately evolved to the rotary transformer shaft encoders like those shown here: http://www.controlsciences.com/resolvers.html#resolver A resolver is part of the mechanism that gets operated by turning the OBS selector knob on an indicator while the rotating bearing ring moves to show presently selected omni bearing radial. The VOR radial data exists in EVERY vor receiver in the form of two signals (1) a 30 Hz sinewave generated from the the relative filed strength of received signal based on rotation of the transmitting antenna and the receiver's relative position around the trans (2) a 10 Khz signal FM modulated with another 30 Hz signal >Thanks, >Ralph Capen >Soooooo many little wires > > Bob . . . -------------------------------------------- ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) ( and still understand nothing. ) ( C.F. Kettering ) -------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:27 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Resolver vs Converter education --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 12:53 PM 9/25/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" > > >Fellow listers, > >My UPSAT SL30 outputs both converter and resolver signals for an external >CDI. That and my GX60 are switched through the ACU for input to the >whatever brand CDI. > >I have a NSD-1000 HSI that I am installing in the panel of my RV6A which >takes both of these signal types - this is intended to be the primary >CDI. The Narco NAV122D/GPS that I have will also take these signals as >inputs. > >The instructions for my SL30 indicate that the resolver signals need to be >calibrated and should not be switched. These instructions also state that >supplemental CDI's should use converter signals only. > >I'm trying to understand the functionality provided by these different >type of signals.... > >Are they complementary - or similar in functionality? Can one set of >signals be used without the other? "resolver" data is a throwback to omni-bearing-selection technology that goes all the way back to the vacuum tube "Super-Homers" and "Omingators" of the early 60's that began with 4-tap, 360-degree rotation potentiometers and ultimately evolved to the rotary transformer shaft encoders like those shown here: http://www.controlsciences.com/resolvers.html#resolver A resolver is part of the mechanism that gets operated by turning the OBS selector knob on an indicator while the rotating bearing ring moves to show presently selected omni bearing radial. The VOR radial data exists in EVERY vor receiver in the form of two signals (1) a 30 Hz sinewave generated from the the relative filed strength of received signal based on rotation of the transmitting antenna and the receiver's relative position around the ground based transmitter's location (2) a 10 Khz signal FM modulated with another 30 Hz signal that provides a fixed reference signal. The combination of these two signals is COMPOSITE raw data which can be resolved by a variety of digital and analog converter techniques to display present bearing from the omni transmitter. While the so called resolver signals are sensitive to the effects of poor switching techniques, this is not a reason to deliberately avoid switches. There are dozens of TSO'd indicator selector switches that allow a single resolver-based CDI/OBS indicator to be shared by both VOR and GPS receivers. However, you generally cannot drive TWO indicators from one set of resolver outputs while you can drive multiple indicators from a single output of composite data. If your desire is to use the single indicator for both VOR and GPS displays, you can switch the instrument between the two receivers . . . I'd opt for switching the COMPOSITE data line . . . much simpler than dealing with all the separate wires needed to switch the resolver, pointer and flag signals. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:38 PM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Resolver vs Converter => composite? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" Bob, Thanks for your info.....My intent is to use the Narco as a backup CDI as it has switchable external inputs with the NSD1000 HSI as the primary CDI device. Now my new confusion..... You reference a composite data line - the stuff that I have looks like six resolver (listed as rotor and stator yadayada) signals and 12 converter signals (listed as gs up+ gs dn+ etc) with no listings of composite per se although there is a listing for a serial connection for a resolver....is this what you mean by composite? The NSD 1000 does not accept composite input nor does the Narco NAV122D/GPS, which means that in order to make this work the way I want - I need to switch all 18 lines for the input as well as the stuff in the NAV122 right?! Thanks again, Ralph Capen ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:22 PM PST US From: PeterHunt1@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Instrument cutouts --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PeterHunt1@aol.com Neville, I waited to cut out my panel until I had my instruments and I am very glad I did. I have a very crowded IFR panel in my RV-6 tip-up. With instruments in hand I realized some were a lot deeper than anticipated and required cutting the sub-panel. My initial plan was changed to clear panel braces, clear tip-up hinges and glare shield reinforcements, and look good. I also canted my radio stack 17 degrees toward the pilot for better viewing and that further modified my initial panel plan. Waiting to cut my panel also enabled me to take advantage of new technology. Peter RV-6, finishing wiring Clearwater, FL ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:41 PM PST US From: "Fred Stucklen" Subject: AeroElectric-List: H10-40 Headsets for sale (Sold) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fred Stucklen" The headsets are sold..... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV 54 Hrs Time: 05:45:10 AM PST US From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" Subject: H10-40 Headsets for sale --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" Listers, I have two H10-40 headsets that I am no longer using, and would like to sell. Both are a few years old, but in excellent condition. One has a head pad and gel ear muffs. Both have foam mike filters. I'm asking $150.00 each, or $275.00 for both. Anybody interested should contact me off the list at the email address below. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV 54 Hrs fred.stucklen@utcfuelcells.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:35 PM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DIY Audio Isolation Amplifier question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > >At 10:08 AM 9/25/2003 -0400, you wrote: >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss >> >>Bob, >> I have a neophyte's question. How do I split the output from your stereo >> DIY audio isolation amplifier to two headsets? Am I to route the output >> into a stereo intercom to accomplish this? > > Two mono headsets or stereo headsets. Do you have an > intercom selected? Stereo or Mono? The last two > pages of http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9009/9009-700C.pdf > illustrate variations on these themes. > > Bob . . . Bob, I currently own a mono headset and was given a mono intercom. However, I will be upgrading to stereo components before my project is finished. The short answer is - stereo. However, can I make it so that it will accept either type? I have already printed out the web link mentioned above. I intend to build the stereo version of the amp. Charlie ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:54 PM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: AeroElectric-List: Suitability of a computer serial mouse wiring harness for aircraft use --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Listers, I was pondering how to wire my Ray Allen stick grips today. While rummaging around my odds and ends box, I came across a wiring harness for a computer mouse. Specifically, this mouse is designed to connect to a serial port on a PC style computer. The harness has a very nice 9 pin D-sub female connector and back shell attached. It's wires are rather small gauge but are color coded. The harness does have a nice outer sheath protecting the harness. Best of all, the entire harness is quite thin. Does anyone know what gauge wire is used in these devices? I don't have any strippers that go down that small. If the wire gauge is sufficient, I'd like to try using this item to extend the wires from my stick grip out of the control stick. Any suggestions (pro or con) will be appreciated. Charlie Kuss ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:48 PM PST US From: Jim Streit Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Suitability of a computer serial mouse wiring harness for aircraft use --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Streit Hey Charlie, Check out gary Newsteads site. He did the very same thing. You can check with him for the details http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/images/avionics/e_aileronsrvo.jpg http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/images/avionics/e_srvoleads.jpg http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/images/avionics/e_srvobrkt2.jpg http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/images/avionics/e_srvobrkt2.jpg http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/images/avionics/e_srvorouting.jpg Charlie Kuss wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss > >Listers, >I was pondering how to wire my Ray Allen stick grips today. While rummaging around my odds and ends box, I came across a wiring harness for a computer mouse. Specifically, this mouse is designed to connect to a serial port on a PC style computer. The harness has a very nice 9 pin D-sub female connector and back shell attached. It's wires are rather small gauge but are color coded. The harness does have a nice outer sheath protecting the harness. Best of all, the entire harness is quite thin. > Does anyone know what gauge wire is used in these devices? I don't have any strippers that go down that small. If the wire gauge is sufficient, I'd like to try using this item to extend the wires from my stick grip out of the control stick. Any suggestions (pro or con) will be appreciated. >Charlie Kuss > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:31 PM PST US From: BAKEROCB@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: connecting Whelen strobes (2) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BAKEROCB@aol.com AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Larry Bowen" << I'm installing the light/strobe in the rudder and am confused about this drain wire. I found the post below in the archives that asks many of the same questions I have, but I didn't find a reply to questions 1-5. Anyone know? Larry Bowen>> 9/25/2003 Hello Larry, The points 2, 3, and 4 in my posting were not questions. They were statements about how one can connect the strobes and (wing tip) position lights to the power supply in a Whelen installation. I threw in a few rhetorical questions on items 1 and 5 as challenging items and you are right, no one has responded to those questions. But read my 5 items again (I'll copy them below). If you still have any questions about your installation either post your specific questions or shoot me an email direct. 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 --------------PREVIOUS POST FOLLOWS ---------------------------------------------- 6/29/2003 Hello Bob Nuckolls and Bret Ferrell, I'd like to flog this horse a few more lashes. 1) Bob Nuckolls really says the drain wire should be attached at both ends on a composite aircraft? But not on a metal aircraft? Why? 2) When one receives the strobe light installation kit from Whelen the cable already has two AMP plastic 3 wire connectors attached, one on each end. These connectors are the ones that plug into the mating 3 wire connectors at the strobe light ends. After cutting the cable somewhere in the middle and snaking those two cut ends through the airframe to the vicinity of the strobe power supply one installs the other two (different) appropriate 3 wire connectors provided by Whelen and plugs the cables into the power supply. 3) The installation instructions say that the drain wire should be connected to the housing / mounting of the power supply. Easy enough to do by leaving the drain wire longer when you cut the cable, strip it, and install the 3 wire connectors that plug into the power supply. 4) But out at the strobe light end of the cable where the Whelen installed connectors are, Whelen has left no access to the drain wire. I suppose one could cut back the plastic covering, remove the aluminum shield, attach a short wire to the now exposed drain wire, and then attach that short wire to some metal part of the strobe light housing, but I find this action both puzzling and unnecessary. 5) Whelen has thousands of these units in service throughout the skies mounted on both metal surfaces and composite wing tips. I am unaware of any need to go through the additonal effort of connecting the drain wire to the metal light housing out at the strobe light end. Can anyone show me different? ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:11 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: connecting Whelen strobes (2) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" Thanks OC. For better or worse, I just finished up the rudder light tonight. I removed the foil, wrapped the drain around the cable, in case it's needed later, and connected up the remaining wires as normal. The light works fine, but I haven't hooked up the power supply yet so I don't have a report on the strobes. And my audio is not ready yet either, which will be the real test. And, to add another varible to the pile, I'm using the a clone power supply (http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/11/cat11.htm?682). The instructions and diagrams don't address the drain wire. I've asked the strobe guy for recommendations, but no news yet. - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BAKEROCB@aol.com > > AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Larry Bowen" > > > << I'm installing the light/strobe in the rudder and am > confused about this drain wire. I found the post below in > the archives that asks many of the same questions I have, > but I didn't find a reply to questions 1-5. Anyone know? > Larry Bowen>> > > 9/25/2003 > > Hello Larry, The points 2, 3, and 4 in my posting were not > questions. They > were statements about how one can connect the strobes and > (wing tip) position > lights to the power supply in a Whelen installation. I threw in a few > rhetorical questions on items 1 and 5 as challenging items > and you are right, no one > has responded to those questions. > > But read my 5 items again (I'll copy them below). If you > still have any > questions about your installation either post your specific > questions or shoot me > an email direct. > > 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 > > --------------PREVIOUS POST FOLLOWS > ---------------------------------------------- > > 6/29/2003 > > Hello Bob Nuckolls and Bret Ferrell, I'd like to flog this > horse a few more > lashes. > > 1) Bob Nuckolls really says the drain wire should be attached > at both ends on > a composite aircraft? But not on a metal aircraft? Why? > > 2) When one receives the strobe light installation kit from > Whelen the cable > already has two AMP plastic 3 wire connectors attached, one > on each end. These > connectors are the ones that plug into the mating 3 wire > connectors at the > strobe light ends. After cutting the cable somewhere in the > middle and snaking > those two cut ends through the airframe to the vicinity of > the strobe power > supply one installs the other two (different) appropriate 3 > wire connectors > provided by Whelen and plugs the cables into the power supply. > > 3) The installation instructions say that the drain wire > should be connected > to the housing / mounting of the power supply. Easy enough > to do by leaving > the drain wire longer when you cut the cable, strip it, and > install the 3 wire > connectors that plug into the power supply. > > 4) But out at the strobe light end of the cable where the > Whelen installed > connectors are, Whelen has left no access to the drain wire. > I suppose one could > cut back the plastic covering, remove the aluminum shield, > attach a short > wire to the now exposed drain wire, and then attach that > short wire to some metal > part of the strobe light housing, but I find this action both > puzzling and > unnecessary. > > 5) Whelen has thousands of these units in service throughout > the skies > mounted on both metal surfaces and composite wing tips. I am > unaware of any need to > go through the additonal effort of connecting the drain wire > to the metal > light housing out at the strobe light end. Can anyone show me > different? ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:57 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Resolver vs Converter => composite? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 05:07 PM 9/25/2003 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" > > >Bob, > >Thanks for your info.....My intent is to use the Narco as a backup CDI as it >has switchable external inputs with the NSD1000 HSI as the primary CDI >device. > >Now my new confusion..... > >You reference a composite data line - the stuff that I have looks like six >resolver (listed as rotor and stator yadayada) signals and 12 converter >signals (listed as gs up+ gs dn+ etc) with no listings of composite per se >although there is a listing for a serial connection for a resolver....is >this what you mean by composite? > >The NSD 1000 does not accept composite input nor does the Narco NAV122D/GPS, >which means that in order to make this work the way I want - I need to >switch all 18 lines for the input as well as the stuff in the NAV122 right?! Yup. Eric Jones was working on an ECB to mount 9, dpdt relays to accomplish this. Eric, are those still available? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:02 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connecting Whelen Strobes --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 12:21 AM 9/25/2003 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" > >I'm installing the light/strobe in the rudder and am confused about this >drain wire. > >I found the post below in the archives that asks many of the same >questions I have, but I didn't find a reply to questions 1-5. Anyone >know? > >- >Larry Bowen >Larry@BowenAero.com >http://BowenAero.com > > > AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, >III" > > > >Bob/Others - First - I bleieve you recommend attaching both ends of the > >Whelen >strobe shielding on composites. What's the best way to attach >the AL >foil, > >solder wire to it? I've installed a Molex connector for service at the > > >strake-wing junction, what kind of connector would you recommend there, > > >another Molex? And finally, would it be sufficient to put a ring >terminal > >under the mounting screw for the ground connection at the light >fixture, > >or should I solder the sheild to the housing, or what? > > There is a bare, stranded wired IN ADDITION to the three insulated >wires > under the shield. This forth wire is called a "drain wire" and its >purpose > is to provide you with a convenient means for making electrical >connection > to the shield-foil which is, as you've noted, impossible to make > connection with. You can extend the drain wire with a short piece of > wire, install a ring terminal and attach to mounting screw for >fixture. > If you DON'T do this, in all probability, you won't know the >difference.>> > >6/29/2003 > >Hello Bob Nuckolls and Bret Ferrell, I'd like to flog this horse a few >more >lashes. > >1) Bob Nuckolls really says the drain wire should be attached at both >ends on >a composite aircraft? But not on a metal aircraft? Why? Actually, the answer was a tad short on info . . . if the fixture is mounted on an insulated surface (either composite airplane or composite tip cap on a metal airplane) it is sometimes helpful to ground the base of the strobe lamp assembly to the drain wire that brings strobe power out to the fixture . . . back in the 60's when strobes were the exception as opposed to the rule, we went through some gyrations to reduce the "flash pop" noise that would appear in the headphones when tuned to weak stations. Extending the shield ground to the strobe base -AND- adding a conductive mesh to the inside surface of the strobe lamp lens did help but didn't reduce it to zero. The full answer should say, it won't hurt to ground your otherwise insulated strobe fixture to the shield of the strobe feeder . . . but it may not help a darn thing either. If the fixture is mounted to a metalic surface that is common to the airframe, don't hook your remote end shield drain to anything . . . >2) When one receives the strobe light installation kit from Whelen the >cable >already has two AMP plastic 3 wire connectors attached, one on each end. >These > >connectors are the ones that plug into the mating 3 wire connectors at >the >strobe light ends. After cutting the cable somewhere in the middle and >snaking > >those two cut ends through the airframe to the vicinity of the strobe >power >supply one installs the other two (different) appropriate 3 wire >connectors >provided by Whelen and plugs the cables into the power supply. Sounds like a good plan to me . . . >3) The installation instructions say that the drain wire should be >connected >to the housing / mounting of the power supply. Easy enough to do by >leaving >the drain wire longer when you cut the cable, strip it, and install the >3 wire > >connectors that plug into the power supply. . . . another good plan. Somebody goofed when they designed that system. The connectors at the power supply should have been 4-pin devices with a pin dedicated to the shield ground. Actually, if one had a schematic of the power supply, you may find that the black wire in the strobe cable is internally connected to case ground. If this is true, then your shield drain wire COULD be legitimately crimped into the connector pin along with the black wire. >4) But out at the strobe light end of the cable where the Whelen >installed >connectors are, Whelen has left no access to the drain wire. I suppose >one could > >cut back the plastic covering, remove the aluminum shield, attach a >short >wire to the now exposed drain wire, and then attach that short wire to >some metal > >part of the strobe light housing, but I find this action both puzzling >and >unnecessary. Strip back 6" of outer jacket, remove all exposed shield foil. Cut inner conductors to about 1.5" and install connector. this leaves you a 6" pigtail of shield drain wire to apply terminal and bolt to base. >5) Whelen has thousands of these units in service throughout the skies >mounted on both metal surfaces and composite wing tips. I am unaware of >any need >to >go through the additonal effort of connecting the drain wire to the >metal >light housing out at the strobe light end. Can anyone show me different? Depends on how you define "need" . . . virtually EVERY airplane I rent has some kind of audible noise in the audio that comes from some other system. Most of the time, it's too low to be a nuisance compared to cabin noise. Some times it's audible but considered too small to be worth the labor of chasing it out of the system. The technique we're discussing has more to do with craftsmanship founded on an understanding of the physics and nothing to do with a personal perception of need or utility. Lots of airplanes fly satisfactorily without paint, spinners, wheel pants, or even an electrical system. Airplanes that DO have these features are crafted by individuals who satisfied their own perceptions of utility that may well differ from yours. If you want to let your strobe shields dangle, it is after all an OBAM aircraft . . . but when it's not hard to do, why not? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:16 PM PST US From: "Jeff Deuchar" Subject: AeroElectric-List: King KX 145 push to talk --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Deuchar" Hi all, Does any one have a wiring diagram for a King KX 145? If so, can you tell me which wire(s) is for the push to talk activation? Thanks in advance, Jeff