Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:49 AM - Electronic tacho & mag check (Neville Kilford)
2. 04:17 AM - Re: Re: Alternator and electronic ignition (Trampas)
3. 04:22 AM - Re: Electronic tacho & mag check (Trampas)
4. 05:16 AM - Re: Electronic tacho & mag check (Neville Kilford)
5. 06:43 AM - Re: Starter/mag switch (Jim Sower)
6. 07:07 AM - Re: Starter/mag switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:19 AM - Re: Electronic tacho & mag check (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 07:21 AM - Re: Electronic tacho & mag check (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 07:45 AM - Rotorway Massive Failure (Dennis O'Connor)
10. 07:45 AM - Re: Alternator and electronic ignition (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 07:48 AM - Re: Crowbar overvoltage protector ... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 07:56 AM - Re: battery charger (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 08:00 AM - Re: Battery Contactor vibration problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 08:38 AM - Re: Rotorway Massive Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 09:29 AM - Re: Battery Contactor vibration problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 09:33 AM - Re: Battery Contactor vibration problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 10:39 AM - Re: Rotorway Massive Failure - keyboard dyslexia repost (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 10:40 AM - Re: Switched gnd? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 11:46 AM - Re: Electronic tacho & mag check (Trampas)
20. 01:04 PM - Alternator Noise in Headset (Pete Waters)
21. 02:42 PM - Re: Battery Contactor vibration problem (Miller.Warren)
22. 03:01 PM - Re: Switched gnd? (Larry Bowen)
23. 06:33 PM - Re: Battery Contactor vibration problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 06:33 PM - Re: Battery Contactor vibration problem (Jon Finley)
25. 06:45 PM - Re: Electronic tacho & mag check (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 08:39 PM - Solid state relay to replace master contactor ()
27. 08:40 PM - Switches and breakers. (Dean Psiropoulos)
28. 08:42 PM - Switchable tach input source for Figure Z-27 ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Electronic tacho & mag check |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
I was thinking I would use an electronic tacho -- something like a UMA tacho
/ hour meter that hooks up to a magneto. Thing is, is it still possible to
do a mag check from the tacho? I'm assuming that switching to the other mag
during a mag check would make the tacho go to zero, and thus it wouldn't be
any use for seeing the mag drop.
I can't see that this would be the case though -- it seems too obvious, and
presumably UMA would have thought of a solution.
Does anyone have any experience of thise type of tach? Many thanks in
anticipation.
Cheers.
Nev
--
Jodel D-150 in progress
UK
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator and electronic ignition |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
Leonard,
First verify that the miss is caused by the alternator by disabling the
alternator and running just off the battery.
Then if the problem does appear to be the alternator, check alternator
output and voltage as mentioned below. I will bet that the alternator has a
bad diode and thus is not outputting full power (current and voltage). Also
with a bad diode the alternator will output a lot of "AC ripple" which is
basically noise. This noise can be misread by the electronic ignition as a
signal to fire the coil, which would cause a miss.
The best way to check AC ripple is with a scope, however a multimeter will
work as well. Turn the meter to AC voltage and connect positive lead to B+
on alternator, and negative to alternator body. You should read less than
400mV, a rough number, of AC voltage. If the voltage is high, most likely
you have a bad diode.
Also check your grounds again, a bad engine ground could also cause some
hiccups with electronic ignitions.
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sower
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator and electronic ignition
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Sower
<canarder@frontiernet.net>
<... charge right up to 14.1 volts and stabilize ...>
Charging voltage with a fully charged battery is 14.7 volts. 14.1 would
indicate
to me that the alternator is loaded pretty much. Or perhaps enough line
losses to
make 14.7 at the alternator look like 14.1 to the voltmeter. 13.8 indicates
the
alternator is loaded so hell wouldn't have it. Have you checked the volts
and amps
at the B-post of your alternator?
Seems like something's missing here .... Jim S.
Leonard Garceau wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leonard Garceau"
<lhgcpg@westriv.com>
>
> I'm doing runups on my conversion with a 55 amp nippondenso alternator
and
> have a intermitten problem. Sometimes as the volt meter reads about 13.8
> volts the needle moves back and forth between lets say 13.8 and 13.9 and
> this causes my engine to miss fire. In other words the electronic
ignition
> doesn't like it. This only happens (or seems so) when the battery is
fully
> charged. If I let the battery run down a bit, it seems to charge right up
to
> 14.1 volts and stablize. Any Ideas?
>
> I also have a miss fire a 4000 rpm. Does anyone know about the range of
> spark plugs to run? Colder? By how much?
>
> My engine is a nissan VQ maxima V-6. It is running great so far. I'm up
to
> 4500 rpm static.
>
> Leonard
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vince Ackerman" <vack@mac.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery Contactor vibration problem
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Vince Ackerman <vack@mac.com>
> >
> > BTW, to where do you want me to send it??
> >
> > On Tuesday, October 7, 2003, at 08:21 AM, Vince Ackerman wrote:
> >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Vince Ackerman <vack@mac.com>
> > >
> > > At the time I was testing it the volt meter was reading 12.4 volts,
> > > which I thought should have been enough. I didn't measure the voltage
> > > across the coil but I will. I will take you up on your offer and send
> > > you the contactor. I would like the B&C contactor sent to the below
> > > address. I will happily pay for it.
> > >
> > > No one makes a solid state contactor? I would think there would be
> > > quite a market for something like that.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > Vince Ackerman
> > > 17977 NW Sauvie Island Rd
> > > Portland, OR 97231
> > >
> > > 503-621-0511
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tuesday, October 7, 2003, at 06:45 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> > >> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> > >>
> > >> At 09:00 PM 10/6/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> > >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Vince Ackerman
> > >>> <vack@mac.com>
> > >>>
> > >>> I installed a battery master switch with contactor (one or the 3
> > >>> terminal ones sold by Aircraft Spruce) on my Rotorway 162f project.
> > >>> For
> > >>> reasons of space I installed it upside down. While testing out the
> > >>> electrical system I noticed that tapping with a small rubber mallet
> > >>> on
> > >>> the bracket that it's mounted to will cause it to interrupt the
power
> > >>> momentarily. It doesn't matter if I tap from top or bottom, it
seems
> > >>> to disconnect for a split second. I know it's disconnecting because
> > >>> my
> > >>> rotor tach goes through it's initialization test on first power up,
> > >>> and
> > >>> it's doing that every time. Also, other indicator lights flicker, so
> > >>> it's not just the tach, nor loose battery leads, etc.
> > >>>
> > >>> You can understand my hesitation about using this since it's a helo
> > >>> (they aren't the smoothest) with two FADEC's that can't be
> > >>> electrically
> > >>> interrupted. Are there any stronger or more reliable contactors,
> > >>> perhaps even solid state? Any suggestions for how to fix this?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> What's your battery voltage? It may be so low as to
> > >> severely reduce the holding force of the coil in the
> > >> energized mode . . . but it has to sag really low. Measure
> > >> the voltage across the coil while energized (battery+
> > >> terminal to small terminal).
> > >>
> > >> If the voltage is over 10v, I'd like to get my hands on that
> > >> contactor. If you'll send me you address, I'll have B&C ship
> > >> you one of their battery contactors today and you can send
> > >> me your questionable device. There's something seriously
> > >> wrong with it if you can get interruptions with vibration.
> > >>
> > >> Bob . . .
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _-
> > >>
======================================================================
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _-
> > >>
======================================================================
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
> > >> _-
> > >>
======================================================================
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _-
> > >>
======================================================================
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > _-
> > >
=======================================================================
> > >
> > > _-
> > >
=======================================================================
> > >
> > > http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
> > > _-
> > >
=======================================================================
> > >
> > > _-
> > >
=======================================================================
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
--
Jim Sower
Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
Message 3
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| Subject: | Electronic tacho & mag check |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
I have heard of people taking a couple of capacitors and connecting them in
series with the P-leads, then connect both leads, after the capacitors, to
the tach. I am not sure how well this would work with your tach.
I personally would look for a different system that had the capability to
monitor both p-leads all the time and let you know if there is any
difference. That is an engine monitor which could notify you in flight of
any difference in the RPMs of the left and right mag.
I am currently working on building such an engine monitoring system.
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neville
Kilford
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electronic tacho & mag check
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
<nkilford@etravel.org>
I was thinking I would use an electronic tacho -- something like a UMA tacho
/ hour meter that hooks up to a magneto. Thing is, is it still possible to
do a mag check from the tacho? I'm assuming that switching to the other mag
during a mag check would make the tacho go to zero, and thus it wouldn't be
any use for seeing the mag drop.
I can't see that this would be the case though -- it seems too obvious, and
presumably UMA would have thought of a solution.
Does anyone have any experience of thise type of tach? Many thanks in
anticipation.
Cheers.
Nev
--
Jodel D-150 in progress
UK
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Electronic tacho & mag check |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
Trampas,
Thanks -- and let me know progress on your EMS. None of the ones out there
really do what I want to do. The EI UBG-16 comes close, but it focuses on
cylinder temperatures, leaving all the other inputs as poor relations. I'd
really like a 2-1/4" round or small rectangular LCD gauge that, monitored
different inputs and flashed up any errant values.
Anyway, thanks for your tacho notes. I was thinking I might use a SPDT
relay. It would normally monitor the L magneto, but when the L magneto was
grounded, this would pull the relay and switch the input to the right
magneto. However, I'm rather unclear on the implications of this.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Nev
--
Jodel D-150 in progress
UK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Electronic tacho & mag check
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>
> I have heard of people taking a couple of capacitors and connecting them in
> series with the P-leads, then connect both leads, after the capacitors, to
> the tach. I am not sure how well this would work with your tach.
>
> I personally would look for a different system that had the capability to
> monitor both p-leads all the time and let you know if there is any
> difference. That is an engine monitor which could notify you in flight of
> any difference in the RPMs of the left and right mag.
>
> I am currently working on building such an engine monitoring system.
>
> Trampas
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Starter/mag switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Sower <canarder@frontiernet.net>
I like to keep it simple. I have two toggle switches for ignition and a push button
starter.
Just a theory ... Jim S.
"David.vonLinsowe" wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David.vonLinsowe" <David.vonLinsowe@delphi.com>
>
> Hi Bob and list,
>
> I'm using two switches for my ignition, one for the left mag and starter
> (double pole) and an other switch for the right electronic ignition.
> I'm upgrading to an all electric panel with a Grand Raids Tech. EIS and
> doing away with the tach cable.
>
> What do you think about the idea of using a triple pole switch for the
> left mag and starter and add a circuit to switch to the EI tach info
> when the mag is off? The EI tach info will have twice the rpm, but I
> don't see that as an issue. Is there a better way?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
--
Jim Sower
Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Starter/mag switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:53 PM 10/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David.vonLinsowe"
><David.vonLinsowe@delphi.com>
>
>Hi Bob and list,
>
>I'm using two switches for my ignition, one for the left mag and starter
>(double pole) and an other switch for the right electronic ignition.
>I'm upgrading to an all electric panel with a Grand Raids Tech. EIS and
>doing away with the tach cable.
>
>What do you think about the idea of using a triple pole switch for the
>left mag and starter and add a circuit to switch to the EI tach info
>when the mag is off? The EI tach info will have twice the rpm, but I
>don't see that as an issue. Is there a better way?
not sure about the "twice the rpm" statement but yes,
most electronic tachs work best while watching only one of
two mags at a time. A third pole on one mag switch
can be used to swap tach sensing to the opposite
mag when it is in the OFF position. It doesn't matter which
mag you do this with.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Electronic tacho & mag check |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:49 AM 10/8/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
><nkilford@etravel.org>
>
>I was thinking I would use an electronic tacho -- something like a UMA tacho
>/ hour meter that hooks up to a magneto. Thing is, is it still possible to
>do a mag check from the tacho? I'm assuming that switching to the other mag
>during a mag check would make the tacho go to zero, and thus it wouldn't be
>any use for seeing the mag drop.
>
>I can't see that this would be the case though -- it seems too obvious, and
>presumably UMA would have thought of a solution.
>
>Does anyone have any experience of thise type of tach? Many thanks in
>anticipation.
see my post of a few minutes ago. Also see:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/elect_tach.jpg
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Electronic tacho & mag check |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>
>I personally would look for a different system that had the capability to
>monitor both p-leads all the time and let you know if there is any
>difference. That is an engine monitor which could notify you in flight of
>any difference in the RPMs of the left and right mag.
How would this happen? If you have two devices driven from
the same shaft, their rpms are in lock-step with each other.
If there is any difference, it would have to be because one
had broken off entirely and was reading ZERO rpm. If they're
running at all, they're exactly matched.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Rotorway Massive Failure |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
A colleague of mine has a Rotorway Exec... He was taking off this past
weekend... The skids were about 2 inches off the ground when he had a total
power failure involving the engine/charging system... Looking it over he
found blown fuses in the circuit(s) to the engine... Only the instruments
are still lighting up with the master turned on... He was asking me for
advice... Rotorway has him looking for a shorted wire in the harness and
ignition.... I doubt that as the source of the problem...
I suggested that I suspected the alternator had a major OV and/or internal
short that took out the main fuses and left him with no ignition power from
the battery... I recommended that he remove the alternator and take it to
the local auto electric rebuilder and have it tested for output and
regulation ( I do not know whether it is internally or externally regulated,
and he didn't even understand the question when I asked him)
Obviously there are many possible scenarios... I am aware of most of them,
and will not bore the group with a recitation, and that discussion is not
the reason for this message...
It sounds like Rotorway does not have an essentials bus/battery with
appropriate OVP and isolation for the electrically dependent engine ignition
(hint, hint, Robert)... Those on the list who have or know someone with a
Rotorway would be well advised to (help them) determine their level of risk
of ignition failure... When/if I learn actual electrical facts about this
bird and get to put hands on, and to see the electrical diagram, I will
inform the list...
Cheers ... Denny
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator and electronic ignition |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:16 AM 10/8/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>
>Leonard,
>
>First verify that the miss is caused by the alternator by disabling the
>alternator and running just off the battery.
>
>Then if the problem does appear to be the alternator, check alternator
>output and voltage as mentioned below. I will bet that the alternator has a
>bad diode and thus is not outputting full power (current and voltage). Also
>with a bad diode the alternator will output a lot of "AC ripple" which is
>basically noise. This noise can be misread by the electronic ignition as a
>signal to fire the coil, which would cause a miss.
>
>The best way to check AC ripple is with a scope, however a multimeter will
>work as well. Turn the meter to AC voltage and connect positive lead to B+
>on alternator, and negative to alternator body. You should read less than
>400mV, a rough number, of AC voltage. If the voltage is high, most likely
>you have a bad diode.
>
>Also check your grounds again, a bad engine ground could also cause some
>hiccups with electronic ignitions.
Leonard, the investigation Trampas has cited is a good one - but
I have additional concerns . . . The notion that an ignition system
can be affected by ANY condition on the bus other than voltage being
too low to function is troubling. Any ignition system worth it's
salt will function nicely to some voltage below that at which a
battery is essentially dead . . . DO-160 suggests 9.0 volts.
Who's ignition system are you using? Have you talked to the
manufacturer as to any know sensitivities to bus quality?
This is pretty important not to investigate to the best
we know how to do.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Crowbar overvoltage protector ... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:18 PM 10/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Sower <canarder@frontiernet.net>
>
>I've heard that Bob sells these "crowbar overvoltage protectors". I need
>one pretty bad.
>I've been to the web site but can't find one there. Did I hear
>wrong? How do I protect from
>alternator runaway?
The OV module is sold by B&C down near the bottom of the page at:
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?26X358218
There is nothing you need to do to "protect" the alternator . . .
the crowbar ov system protects the AIRPLANE from a malfunctioning
alternator. Got your order for a book and it's going out in a few
minutes. I've forwarded your request for OVM-14 crowbar module
to B&C. I suspect it will go out today.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: battery charger |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:30 PM 10/7/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Dennis Jones (djones@foxvalley.net) on Tuesday, October 7, 2003 at 16:30:28
>
>Tuesday, October 7, 2003
>
>Dennis Jones
>
>,
>Email: djones@foxvalley.net
>Comments/Questions: You use to reference battery chargers that have the
>ability to monitor battery temperature as well as all the other required
>items (12 ant 24 volts, starting ability). Do you still have chargers you
>recommend for us aviator types?
Don't worry about temperature compensation. This is unnecessary
for 99% of common battery usage in airplanes. How do you plan
to use this? If you have an RG battery, you can put the airplane
away and come back in 6 months and the battery will be in good
shape.
I have several battery maintainers that I use for my portable
instrumentation power packs . . . here's an example:
http://www.atvpartsstore.com/automatic_battery_charger.html
There are dozens that cost $30-40 range and work nice.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Contactor vibration problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:21 AM 10/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Vince Ackerman <vack@mac.com>
>
>At the time I was testing it the volt meter was reading 12.4 volts,
>which I thought should have been enough. I didn't measure the voltage
>across the coil but I will. I will take you up on your offer and send
>you the contactor. I would like the B&C contactor sent to the below
>address. I will happily pay for it.
>
>No one makes a solid state contactor? I would think there would be
>quite a market for something like that.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Vince Ackerman
>17977 NW Sauvie Island Rd
>Portland, OR 97231
>
>503-621-0511
Send your bad contactor to Bob Nuckolls, 6936 Bainbridge Road,
Wichita, Ks 67226-1008
I've e-mailed B&C to get you a replacement contactor
on the way with my compliments.
Bob . . .
>On Tuesday, October 7, 2003, at 06:45 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> > <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> > At 09:00 PM 10/6/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Vince Ackerman <vack@mac.com>
> >>
> >> I installed a battery master switch with contactor (one or the 3
> >> terminal ones sold by Aircraft Spruce) on my Rotorway 162f project.
> >> For
> >> reasons of space I installed it upside down. While testing out the
> >> electrical system I noticed that tapping with a small rubber mallet on
> >> the bracket that it's mounted to will cause it to interrupt the power
> >> momentarily. It doesn't matter if I tap from top or bottom, it seems
> >> to disconnect for a split second. I know it's disconnecting because my
> >> rotor tach goes through it's initialization test on first power up,
> >> and
> >> it's doing that every time. Also, other indicator lights flicker, so
> >> it's not just the tach, nor loose battery leads, etc.
> >>
> >> You can understand my hesitation about using this since it's a helo
> >> (they aren't the smoothest) with two FADEC's that can't be
> >> electrically
> >> interrupted. Are there any stronger or more reliable contactors,
> >> perhaps even solid state? Any suggestions for how to fix this?
> >
> >
> > What's your battery voltage? It may be so low as to
> > severely reduce the holding force of the coil in the
> > energized mode . . . but it has to sag really low. Measure
> > the voltage across the coil while energized (battery+
> > terminal to small terminal).
> >
> > If the voltage is over 10v, I'd like to get my hands on that
> > contactor. If you'll send me you address, I'll have B&C ship
> > you one of their battery contactors today and you can send
> > me your questionable device. There's something seriously
> > wrong with it if you can get interruptions with vibration.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> >
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> >
> > _-
> > =======================================================================
> >
> >
>
>
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Rotorway Massive Failure |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:44 AM 10/8/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor"
><doconnor@chartermi.net>
>
>A colleague of mine has a Rotorway Exec... He was taking off this past
>weekend... The skids were about 2 inches off the ground when he had a total
>power failure involving the engine/charging system... Looking it over he
>found blown fuses in the circuit(s) to the engine... Only the instruments
>are still lighting up with the master turned on... He was asking me for
>advice... Rotorway has him looking for a shorted wire in the harness and
>ignition.... I doubt that as the source of the problem...
>
>I suggested that I suspected the alternator had a major OV and/or internal
>short that took out the main fuses and left him with no ignition power from
>the battery... I recommended that he remove the alternator and take it to
>the local auto electric rebuilder and have it tested for output and
>regulation ( I do not know whether it is internally or externally regulated,
>and he didn't even understand the question when I asked him)
>Obviously there are many possible scenarios... I am aware of most of them,
>and will not bore the group with a recitation, and that discussion is not
>the reason for this message...
>
>It sounds like Rotorway does not have an essentials bus/battery with
>appropriate OVP and isolation for the electrically dependent engine ignition
>(hint, hint, Robert)... Those on the list who have or know someone with a
>Rotorway would be well advised to (help them) determine their level of risk
>of ignition failure... When/if I learn actual electrical facts about this
>bird and get to put hands on, and to see the electrical diagram, I will
>inform the list...
>Cheers ... Denny
There are MANY questions that need to be explored to adequately
understand root cause of the failure and then deduce why the failure
was intolerable. When you have multiple blown fuses, this does
suggest a severe ov condition. I agree that a "sorted wire in harness"
is going to be found as root cause.
Before he gets out hammers-n-saws, have him contact me either here
on the list or directly. Let's do this investigation in an orderly
fashion that doesn't eliminate evidence before it can be examined.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Contactor vibration problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:50 AM 10/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Vince Ackerman <vack@mac.com>
>
>At the time I was testing it the volt meter was reading 12.4 volts,
>which I thought should have been enough. I didn't measure the voltage
>across the coil but I will. I will take you up on your offer and send
>you the contactor. I would like the B&C contactor sent to the below
>address. I will happily pay for it.
>
>No one makes a solid state contactor? I would think there would be
>quite a market for something like that.
I'm not aware of a solid state contactor capable
of battery contactor service that handles bi-directional
current flows commensurate with this application. The
technology is out there to do it but it would be MUCH
more expensive than the plain-vanilla contactor. They're
old technology but quite mature and very inexpensive. If
your system is failure tolerant, then the absolute quality
and/or service life should not be a driving issue. I'd
use them in my own airplane. Let's see what's going on
with the one that's giving you problems. This is a RARE
event and I'd like to understand what's happening.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Contactor vibration problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:45 AM 10/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard May <ram45@comporium.net>
>
>At 09:00 PM 10/6/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Vince Ackerman <vack@mac.com>
> >
> >I installed a battery master switch with contactor (one or the 3
> >terminal ones sold by Aircraft Spruce) on my Rotorway 162f project. For
> >reasons of space I installed it upside down. While testing out the
<snip>
> >You can understand my hesitation about using this since it's a helo
> >(they aren't the smoothest) with two FADEC's that can't be electrically
> >interrupted. Are there any stronger or more reliable contactors,
> >perhaps even solid state? Any suggestions for how to fix this?
> >
> >Thanks
> >Vince Ackerman
> >N777FB
>
>We had similar type of problem in the Glasairs. It was discovered that
>during high g loads, the contactors would separate. The fix was mounting
>them horizontally.
Properly designed and operating contactors are not
position sensitive. If changing mounting orientation
of a contactor "fixed" anything, then it simply covered
up a symptom of a profound problem with the contactor's
design or quality.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Rotorway Massive Failure - keyboard dyslexia repost |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:38 AM 10/8/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 10:44 AM 10/8/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor"
> ><doconnor@chartermi.net>
> >
> >A colleague of mine has a Rotorway Exec... He was taking off this past
> >weekend... The skids were about 2 inches off the ground when he had a total
> >power failure involving the engine/charging system... Looking it over he
> >found blown fuses in the circuit(s) to the engine... Only the instruments
> >are still lighting up with the master turned on... He was asking me for
> >advice... Rotorway has him looking for a shorted wire in the harness and
> >ignition.... I doubt that as the source of the problem...
> >
> >I suggested that I suspected the alternator had a major OV and/or internal
> >short that took out the main fuses and left him with no ignition power from
> >the battery... I recommended that he remove the alternator and take it to
> >the local auto electric rebuilder and have it tested for output and
> >regulation ( I do not know whether it is internally or externally regulated,
> >and he didn't even understand the question when I asked him)
> >Obviously there are many possible scenarios... I am aware of most of them,
> >and will not bore the group with a recitation, and that discussion is not
> >the reason for this message...
> >
> >It sounds like Rotorway does not have an essentials bus/battery with
> >appropriate OVP and isolation for the electrically dependent engine ignition
> >(hint, hint, Robert)... Those on the list who have or know someone with a
> >Rotorway would be well advised to (help them) determine their level of risk
> >of ignition failure... When/if I learn actual electrical facts about this
> >bird and get to put hands on, and to see the electrical diagram, I will
> >inform the list...
> >Cheers ... Denny
>
> There are MANY questions that need to be explored to adequately
> understand root cause of the failure and then deduce why the failure
> was intolerable. When you have multiple blown fuses, this does
> suggest a severe ov condition. I agree that a "shorted wire in harness"
> is probably NOT going to be found as root cause.
>
> Before he gets out hammers-n-saws, have him contact me either here
> on the list or directly. Let's do this investigation in an orderly
> fashion that doesn't eliminate evidence before it can be examined.
>
> Bob . . .
Message 18
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:07 AM 10/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
>
>Hopefully it's not that complicated. This is what I want to do.
>
>Main fuse block -- 5 amp fuse -- fuel pump -- terminal strip -- infinity
>grip -- ground
>
>=AND=
>
>Main fuse block -- 2 amp fuse -- dimmer board -- 3 enun. LEDs --
>terminal strip -- infinity grip -- ground
>
>When the switch is closed on the grip, it provides ground to both the
>pump and it's one enun light. I couldn't get this fuctionality
>switching the positive unless I had one dimmer board per enun light,
>which is not a reasonable option.
Drive on . . .
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Electronic tacho & mag check |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
Bob,
What happens if the points in the mag shorts or a wire breaks, or any other
failure. After all one of the reasons to have dual magnetos is for back up
therefore there is a perceived risk of a mag failing.
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Electronic tacho & mag check
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>
>I personally would look for a different system that had the capability to
>monitor both p-leads all the time and let you know if there is any
>difference. That is an engine monitor which could notify you in flight of
>any difference in the RPMs of the left and right mag.
How would this happen? If you have two devices driven from
the same shaft, their rpms are in lock-step with each other.
If there is any difference, it would have to be because one
had broken off entirely and was reading ZERO rpm. If they're
running at all, they're exactly matched.
Bob . . .
Message 20
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| Subject: | Alternator Noise in Headset |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Pete Waters <pedroagua@yahoo.com>
--0-1048268627-1065643404=:33612
Bob,
Apologies if this is a duplicate post; I seem to have trouble getting this out.
I'm starting to develop an electrical problem in my RV-4 and I'm hoping you can
help me diagnose it.
I bought the RV-4 (completed) last year. It was built in 1988 and I'm the fourth
owner. It's a solid airplane, but the documentation is thin and from the
logbooks it appears that the electrical stuff (lights, radios) were added piecemeal
over the plane's first few years, so the electrical system is a bit tangled.
For example, my nav light circuit breaker kept popping. I finally figured
out that the builder / modifier has three 2-amp bulbs (6 amps) going through
a 5-amp CB. So, after consulting the wire selection graph, I replaced the
5A CB with a 10A CB. Worked great.
However, on my next flight, I started hearing a whine in my headset. More of
a high-pitched tone, actually. I realized that it was a solid tone that was
being cut off intermittently, making it sounding a lot like Morse from an VOR.
As I returned from a cross country it got louder and became almost constant.
The whine / tone is present with the radios off, strobes off, and alternator
off, although I didn't think to pull the breakers on those circuits. I don't
hear it on deck with all the avionics running off the RG battery. Inflight I
can hear it in the background during intercom use and radio reception. It disappears
briefly after a radio transmission and then returns after a few seconds.
The plane has a VDO analog voltmeter, no ammeter. ( I plan to install an VA-1A
EI volt/ammeter shortly.) As I heard the tone inflight I immediately noticed
that the voltage was increasing to about 15.5 V and fluctuating there for
a while. Then it settled down to 14.5 V or so. Th
e
problem comes and goes and is not entirely repeatable. The voltmeter reads 14.0
volts on deck with just the battery on and the engine not running (no alternator),
so I think the VDO voltmeter is accurate.
Also, perhaps related and perhaps not, the LORAN started telling me a few weeks
back, before I heard any of this headset noise, that I was in the Southern
Hemisphere when I was flying across Oregon. I had thought the LORAN had just died
due to age, and I was buying a GPS anyway, so I've just turned it off and
planned to remove it.
Initially I was thinking the obvious thought that the alternator's going. After
reading the Aeroelectric Connnetion I'm wondering if it might not be the voltage
regulator. Because the plane has so little documentation, I don't know
the specifics of the alternator at all or how old it is, just that it's been
working well so far. My A&P found nothing wrong with it at the last annual 60
hours ago. I'm wondering if the impending alternator / regulator failure is
putting out RF that's getting into the headset and was jamming the LORAN. (It
turns out that the LORAN had locked onto the wrong nav solution -- that whole
"two solutions to the quadratic equation" thing. Letting it sit on deck for
a few minutes with the engine off allowed it to "find itself" correctly back in
California. But I'm still wondering if the initial event of it getting lost
wasn't related to LORAN signal jamming
from the alternator / regulator.)
Also, I noticed in flight that with the electrical system fully loaded up, the
voltmeter needle also starts rapidly fluctuating at 14.5-15.5V. I see this
when I turn on the landing light. Due to the lack of documentation I have no
idea how many total amps are actually flowing through the system, so I'm wondering
if turning on the landing lights actually
puts the plane's total current draw above the rated output of the alternator.
Is fluctuating system voltage a sign of that? This airplane is well-built structurally
and the engine's in good shape, but the more I look at the electrical
system, the more I relaize that it's not quite what I'd like to see. Since
avionics and lights were added piecemeal over the years by different people, I
wouldn't be surprised to see as basic a mistake as an undercapacity alternator.
(Remember the undercapacity CB I found.)
Lastly, I'm also noting that the whine showed up within two flight hours of
my replacing the nav lights circuit breaker. Although I can't imagine why that
would have an effect, I also should mention that the circuit breaker panel
is homemade and possibly not well shielded; perhaps in the course of working
with the panel to swap out the breaker I changed something.
If you could offer any thoughts on this, I'd appreciate it.
Best,
Pete Waters
(registered for your class in Watsonville)
---------------------------------
--0-1048268627-1065643404=:33612
<DIV>Bob,<BR></DIV>
<DIV> Apologies if this is a duplicate post; I seem to have trouble getting
this out.</DIV>
<DIV> I'm starting to develop an electrical problem in my RV-4 and I'm hoping
you can help me diagnose it.<BR> I bought the RV-4 (completed) last
year. It was built in 1988 and I'm the fourth owner. It's a solid airplane,
but the documentation is thin and from the logbooks it appears that the electrical
stuff (lights, radios) were added piecemeal over the plane's first few
years, so the electrical system is a bit tangled. For example, my nav
light circuit breaker kept popping. I finally figured out that the builder
/ modifier has three 2-amp bulbs (6 amps) going through a 5-amp CB.
So, after consulting the wire selection graph, I replaced the 5A CB with
a 10A CB. Worked great. <BR> However, on my next flight, I started
hearing a whine in my headset. More of a high-pitched tone, actually.
I realized that it was a solid tone that was being cut off intermittently,
making it sounding a lot like Morse from an VOR. A
s I
returned from a cross country it got louder and became almost constant.
The whine / tone is present with the radios off, strobes off, and alternator off,
although I didn't think to pull the breakers on those circuits. I don't
hear it on deck with all the avionics running off the RG battery. Inflight
I can hear it in the background during intercom use and radio reception.
It disappears briefly after a radio transmission and then returns after a few
seconds. The plane has a VDO analog voltmeter, no ammeter. ( I plan
to install an VA-1A EI volt/ammeter shortly.) As I heard
the tone inflight I immediately noticed that the voltage was increasing to
about 15.5 V and fluctuating there for a while. Then it settled down to
14.5 V or so. The problem comes and goes and is not entirely repeatable.
The voltmeter reads 14.0 volts on deck with just the battery on and the
engine not running (no alternator), so I think
the VDO voltmeter is accurate. </DIV>
<DIV> Also, perhaps related and perhaps not, the LORAN started telling me a
few weeks back, before I heard any of this headset noise, that I
was in the Southern Hemisphere when I was flying across Oregon. I had thought the
LORAN had just died due to age, and I was buying a GPS anyway, so
I've just turned it off and planned to remove it.<BR> Initially
I was thinking the obvious thought that the alternator's going. After
reading the Aeroelectric Connnetion I'm wondering if it might not be the voltage
regulator. Because the plane has so little documentation, I don't know
the specifics of the alternator at all or how old it is, just that it's
been working well so far. My A&P found nothing wrong with it at the
last annual 60 hours ago. I'm wondering if the impending alternator /
regulator failure is putting out RF that's getting into the headset and
was jamming the LORAN. (It turns out that the L
ORAN had
locked onto the wrong nav solution -- that whole "two solutions to the quadratic
equation" thing. Letting it sit on deck for a few minutes with
the engine off allowed it to "find itself" correctly back in California. But
I'm still wondering if the initial event of it getting lost wasn't
related to LORAN signal jamming</DIV>
<DIV>from the alternator / regulator.) </DIV>
<DIV> Also, I noticed in flight that with the electrical system fully loaded
up, the voltmeter needle also starts rapidly fluctuating at 14.5-15.5V.
I see this when I turn on the landing light. Due to the lack of documentation
I have no idea how many total amps are actually flowing through the
system, so I'm wondering if turning on the landing lights actually <BR>puts the
plane's total current draw above the rated output of the alternator. Is fluctuating
system voltage a sign of that? This airplane is well-built
structurally and the engine's in good shape, but the more I look at
the electrical system, the more I relaize that it's not quite what I'd like to
see. Since avionics and lights were added piecemeal over the years by
different people, I wouldn't be surprised to see as basic a mistake as an undercapacity
alternator. (Remember the undercapacity CB I found.)</DIV>
<DIV> Lastly, I'm also noting that the whine showed up within
two flight hours of my replacing the nav lights circuit breaker.
Although I can't imagine why that would have an effect, I also should
mention that the circuit breaker panel is homemade and possibly not well
shielded; perhaps in the course of working with the panel to swap out the
breaker I changed something.<BR> If you could offer any thoughts
on this, I'd appreciate it.<BR><BR>Best,<BR>Pete Waters<BR>(registered
for your class in Watsonville)<BR></DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
--0-1048268627-1065643404=:33612--
Message 21
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| Subject: | Battery Contactor vibration problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Miller.Warren" <Warren.Miller@IGT.com>
I just coincidentally had a vendor-visit from the Crydom rep.
SO, I just happened to ask him about Solid State high amp. relays.
They have some with 100Amp load current (max) that operate 3.5-32 volts DC
control
voltage. They will switch 0-60 Volts dc. These will have to be heatsinked,
of course
but they will mount easily with 2 fasteners.
PN's D06D60, D06D80, or D06D100.
I haven't checked out their website yet. www.crydom.com
FYI.
W.Miller
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:50 AM 10/7/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Vince Ackerman <vack@mac.com>
>
>At the time I was testing it the volt meter was reading 12.4 volts,
>which I thought should have been enough. I didn't measure the voltage
>across the coil but I will. I will take you up on your offer and send
>you the contactor. I would like the B&C contactor sent to the below
>address. I will happily pay for it.
>
>No one makes a solid state contactor? I would think there would be
>quite a market for something like that.
Message 22
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|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
The deed is done. All systems appear to work as expected. Thanks.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls@cox.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 1:40 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switched gnd?
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> --> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 09:07 AM 10/7/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
> >--> <Larry@bowenaero.com>
> >
> >Hopefully it's not that complicated. This is what I want to do.
> >
> >Main fuse block -- 5 amp fuse -- fuel pump -- terminal strip --
> >infinity grip -- ground
> >
> >=AND=
> >
> >Main fuse block -- 2 amp fuse -- dimmer board -- 3 enun. LEDs --
> >terminal strip -- infinity grip -- ground
> >
> >When the switch is closed on the grip, it provides ground to
> both the
> >pump and it's one enun light. I couldn't get this fuctionality
> >switching the positive unless I had one dimmer board per enun light,
> >which is not a reasonable option.
>
>
> Drive on . . .
Message 23
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| Subject: | Battery Contactor vibration problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:40 PM 10/8/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Miller.Warren"
><Warren.Miller@IGT.com>
>
>I just coincidentally had a vendor-visit from the Crydom rep.
>SO, I just happened to ask him about Solid State high amp. relays.
>
>They have some with 100Amp load current (max) that operate 3.5-32 volts DC
>control
>voltage. They will switch 0-60 Volts dc. These will have to be heatsinked,
>of course
>but they will mount easily with 2 fasteners.
>PN's D06D60, D06D80, or D06D100.
>I haven't checked out their website yet. www.crydom.com
>
>FYI.
>W.Miller
These are good for controlling a uni-directional load.
Keep in mind that a battery contactor needs to have good
performance BOTH directions . . . OUT for cranking, IN
for battery charging. Inrush current to a starter motor
can be on the order of 300-500 amps for several milliseconds.
The relay has to shrug this off too.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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| Subject: | Battery Contactor vibration problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net>
Wow, those look pretty slick. I'd be interested to know if you guys
think they appropriate for our aircraft (continuous duty, etc...).
FYI: Mouser lists the 80amp unit at $85.00.
Jon
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Miller.Warren"
> --> <Warren.Miller@IGT.com>
>
> I just coincidentally had a vendor-visit from the Crydom rep.
> SO, I just happened to ask him about Solid State high amp. relays.
>
> They have some with 100Amp load current (max) that operate
> 3.5-32 volts DC control voltage. They will switch 0-60 Volts
> dc. These will have to be heatsinked, of course but they
> will mount easily with 2 fasteners. PN's D06D60, D06D80, or
> D06D100. I haven't checked out their website yet. www.crydom.com
>
> FYI.
> W.Miller
Message 25
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| Subject: | Electronic tacho & mag check |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:45 PM 10/8/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>
>Bob,
>
>What happens if the points in the mag shorts or a wire breaks, or any other
>failure. After all one of the reasons to have dual magnetos is for back up
>therefore there is a perceived risk of a mag failing.
>
>Trampas
I think I understand your question . . . we were discussing the value
of looking for the rpm readings from two mags to be DIFFERENT . . .
I suggeseted that they're either dead-nuts in lock step with each
other -OR- one of them is DEAD.
Were you suggesting that there should be some provision for ACTIVE mag
failure warning? There have been about 250,000 airplanes built
in US alone that have never had a mag failure warning system
installed.
An excellent demonstration of the value of the FMEA . . . and
the underlying notions that (1) you're not likely to get dual failures
on any single tank of fuel and (2) you'll catch the failed mag at
next preflight. Some pilots do a mag-check during taxi to parking
so as to get a heads-up about an unperceived failure during the
flight . . . it's better to know that a mag has crapped taxiing
in than during next pre-flight.
An analysis of this very long and rich history of dual-mag engines
for flight suggests that an active mag failure warning system
is unnecessary.
Bob . . .
Message 26
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| Subject: | Solid state relay to replace master contactor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Warren,
I just checked out the web site for the product you mention. See it's specs at
the web page below:
http://www.crydom.com/pdf/D06D.pdf
This unit would not work as a master contactor. It's maximum rated surge is only
270 amps. This won't cut it for all situations
when cranking the starter.
Charlie Kuss
From: "Miller.Warren" <Warren.Miller@igt.com>
Date: 2003/10/08 Wed PM 05:40:02 EDT
> > To: "'aeroelectric-list@matronics.com'" <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Battery Contactor vibration problem
snipped
Message 27
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| Subject: | Switches and breakers. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir@easystreet.com>
Your infinite words of wisdom are requested Bob:
I have purchased several switches and breakers from a local electronics
store and am wondering about their suitability for use in aircraft
(price
was substantially lower than similar ones from Aircraft Spruce or even
Van's). The hardware data is as follows:
1) Potter and Brumfield 50 VDC, 7.5 AMP breaker/switch,
W31-X2M1G-7.50, made in Mexico, screw terminals
2) Potter and Brumfield 50 VDC, 6 AMP breaker, W58-XB1A4A-6P, made
in
Mexico, fast-on terminals
3) SIEMENS 50 VDC, 3 AMP breaker, W58-XB1A4A-3P, made in Mexico,
fast-on terminals
4) Potter and Brumfield 32 VDC, 4 AMP breaker, W28-XQ1A-4P, !!!!!
made
in USA !!!!!, fast-on terminals
5) Carling Switch 15 AMP, 125 Volt AC, SPST lighted (incandescent)
rocker switch, made in Mexico, fast-on terminals
6) EDK 5 AMP, 125 Volt AC, SPST lighted (LED) rocker switch, made
in
Japan, fast-on terminals
Any good things or bad things to say about the above hardware or general
words of wisdom on these items? Thanks.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A
Can't wait to start wiring!
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<p classMsoNormal><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Your infinite words of wisdom are requested
Bob:</span></font></p>
<p classMsoNormal><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>
<p classMsoNormal><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I have purchased several switches and breakers from a
local
electronics store and am wondering about their suitability for use in
aircraft
(price was substantially lower than similar ones from Aircraft Spruce or
even
Van’s). The hardware data is as follows:</span></font></p>
<p classMsoNormal><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>
<p classMsoNormal style'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font
size2
faceArial><span style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>1)<font
size1
face"Times New Roman"><span style'font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman"'>
</span></font></span></font><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Potter and Brumfield 50 VDC, 7.5 AMP
breaker/switch,
W31-X2M1G-7.50, made in </span></font><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Mexico</span></font><font
size2
faceArial><span style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>, screw
terminals</span></font></p>
<p classMsoNormal style'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font
size2
faceArial><span style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>2)<font
size1
face"Times New Roman"><span style'font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman"'>
</span></font></span></font><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Potter and Brumfield 50 VDC, 6 AMP breaker,
W58-XB1A4A-6P,
made in </span></font><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Mexico</span></font><font size2
faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>, fast-on
terminals</span></font></p>
<p classMsoNormal style'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font
size2
faceArial><span style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>3)<font
size1
face"Times New Roman"><span style'font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman"'>
</span></font></span></font><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>SIEMENS 50 VDC, 3 AMP breaker, W58-XB1A4A-3P,
made in
</span></font><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>Mexico</span></font><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>, fast-on terminals</span></font></p>
<p classMsoNormal style'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font
size2
faceArial><span style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>4)<font
size1
face"Times New Roman"><span style'font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman"'>
</span></font></span></font><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Potter and Brumfield 32 VDC, 4 AMP breaker,
W28-XQ1A-4P,
!!!!! made in </span></font><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>USA</span></font><font size2
faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> !!!!!, fast-on
terminals</span></font></p>
<p classMsoNormal style'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font
size3
face"Times New Roman"><span style'font-size:12.0pt'>5)<font
size1
face"Times New Roman"><span style'font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman"'>
</span></font></span></font>Carling Switch 15 AMP, 125 Volt AC, SPST
lighted
(incandescent) rocker switch, <font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>made in </span></font><font size2
faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Mexico</span></font><font
size2
faceArial><span style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>,
fast-on terminals</span></font></p>
<p classMsoNormal style'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in'><font
size3
face"Times New Roman"><span style'font-size:12.0pt'>6)<font
size1
face"Times New Roman"><span style'font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman"'>
</span></font></span></font><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>EDK </span></font>5 AMP, 125 Volt AC, SPST
lighted (LED)
rocker switch, <font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>made in </span></font><font size2
faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Japan</span></font><font
size2
faceArial><span style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>,
fast-on terminals</span></font></p>
<p classMsoNormal><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>
<p classMsoNormal><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Any good things or bad things to say about the above
hardware or general words of wisdom on these items?
Thanks.</span></font></p>
<p classMsoNormal><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>
<p classMsoNormal><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Dean Psiropoulos</span></font></p>
<p classMsoNormal><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>RV-6A </span></font></p>
<p classMsoNormal><font size2 faceArial><span
style'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Can’t wait to start wiring!</span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Switchable tach input source for Figure Z-27 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Bob,
I've been straining my pea brain studying all of your electrical schematics. I'm
building a VFR RV-8A with 1 mag and 1 EI. I'm basing my system on drawing Z-11.
I plan to use figure Z27 to wire my 2 toggle style ignition switches. Earlier
today, you referred another lister to a free hand drawn schematic that will
allow him to switch his tach imput lead between 2 magnetos. Is this
possible to do in conjunction with figure Z-27 for my system? Will it require a
pair of 3-3 switches? I'm using an RMI uMonitor for my tachometer. Please advise.
Charlie Kuss
PS Thanks again for all your efforts on our behalf.
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