Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:39 AM - Re: Fuse Blocks, fuses, fusible links and CBs (fellowsw)
2. 01:04 AM - Re: Strobe head fix (Gilles.Thesee)
3. 01:12 AM - Re: Rotorway Massive Failure (Vince Ackerman)
4. 06:38 AM - noise in headset when transmitting (Richard May)
5. 07:53 AM - Re: Fuse Blocks, fuses, fusible links and (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:56 AM - Re: Solid state relay to replace master (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 10:01 AM - Jumper for Video Camcorder (Pat Hatch)
8. 11:06 AM - Re: Starter/mag switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 11:14 AM - Re: Rotorway Massive Failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 11:22 AM - Re: Switches and breakers. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 11:27 AM - Re: Antenna cable routing question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 12:23 PM - Re: Jumper for Video Camcorder (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 03:39 PM - Re: Jumper for Video Camcorder (Pat Hatch)
14. 08:20 PM - Re: Fuse Blocks, fuses, fusible links and CBs (Jim Sower)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Fuse Blocks, fuses, fusible links and CBs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "fellowsw" <fellows.w@ewcapital.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott,
Ian
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fuse Blocks, fuses, fusible links and CBs
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott, Ian"
<ian_scott@rslcom.com.au>
doesn't everyone practice flapless landings?
I certainly do.
Ian
Of course but as a perfect pilot it is a theoretical exercise for me.
A Dragonair crew on the Airbus couldn't extend the flaps because of a
computer design flaw and practiced one as well into Hong Kong airport. Rumor
has it that it was not that much fun flying the approach 100 knots faster
than normal so it probably depends on the airplane as well.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe head fix |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> >
> >Can silicone be used to re-seal the glass lens to the transformer/plastic
> >base of the head ?
> >If so, what grade is best ?
>
> Electronic grade (does not smell of vinegar).
>
> Bob . . .
>
Thanks Bob,
Gilles
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rotorway Massive Failure |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Vince Ackerman <vack@mac.com>
I am nearly finished building my Rotorway Exec 162f. I have slightly
redesigned the electrical system to be more in line with the standards
and practices found in Bob's Aerolectric book. The Rotorway electrical
system is rather badly designed despite the fact that it has two
FADEC's that are totally dependent on a constant source of 12 volts. If
you have a total electrical failure, the engine quits. Despite that,
this is the first time I've heard of a total failure on any ship. They
supply a wiring harness for the entire aircraft and if you want to
change anything, it involves some major work. I have made an essential
bus and have separated out most of the subsystems to individual
breakers but decided to leave the feed from alternator and battery
alone. I did add a battery master/contactor but wonder if I'm not
putting in a source of failure where one didn't exist before....
I am sending Bob a copy of the electrical system schematic (I promised
him a long time ago).
Vince Ackerman
On Wednesday, October 8, 2003, at 07:44 AM, Dennis O'Connor wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor"
> <doconnor@chartermi.net>
>
> A colleague of mine has a Rotorway Exec... He was taking off this past
> weekend... The skids were about 2 inches off the ground when he had a
> total
> power failure involving the engine/charging system... Looking it over
> he
> found blown fuses in the circuit(s) to the engine... Only the
> instruments
> are still lighting up with the master turned on... He was asking me
> for
> advice... Rotorway has him looking for a shorted wire in the harness
> and
> ignition.... I doubt that as the source of the problem...
>
> I suggested that I suspected the alternator had a major OV and/or
> internal
> short that took out the main fuses and left him with no ignition power
> from
> the battery... I recommended that he remove the alternator and take
> it to
> the local auto electric rebuilder and have it tested for output and
> regulation ( I do not know whether it is internally or externally
> regulated,
> and he didn't even understand the question when I asked him)
> Obviously there are many possible scenarios... I am aware of most of
> them,
> and will not bore the group with a recitation, and that discussion is
> not
> the reason for this message...
>
> It sounds like Rotorway does not have an essentials bus/battery with
> appropriate OVP and isolation for the electrically dependent engine
> ignition
> (hint, hint, Robert)... Those on the list who have or know someone
> with a
> Rotorway would be well advised to (help them) determine their level of
> risk
> of ignition failure... When/if I learn actual electrical facts about
> this
> bird and get to put hands on, and to see the electrical diagram, I will
> inform the list...
> Cheers ... Denny
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
>
> http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
> _-
> =======================================================================
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | noise in headset when transmitting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard May <ram45@comporium.net>
In my aircraft, when I transmit on my comm radio, I hear a loud squeal in
my headset. The avionics shop said it's due to the close proximity of the
antenna to my headset, and the wire that goes across from one side of the
headset to the other picks up the signal. The airplane is all wood, and
the antenna is behind the back seat, inside the fuselage.
Is there anything that can be done to get rid of this annoying noise?
Message 5
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| Subject: | Fuse Blocks, fuses, fusible links and |
CBs
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
CBs
At 02:25 PM 10/10/2003 +0900, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "fellowsw" <fellows.w@ewcapital.net>
>
>
> > What would you suggest for a feed to the flap motor. I thought I read
> > something about this is one particular animal that can nuisance trip. If
> > you were to recommend a CB application how would you power that off say
> > the main bus/fuse block? I would prefer to keep the ALT FLD CB the only
> > breaker on the panel, if practical.
>
>FEMA is good concept but .... with many flap systems, the motor will draw
>more current than the flap system is designed to take if you extend the
>flaps when the speed is a little over the flap extension speed limit.
VERY rare, and the risk is easy to deduce. . . .
ammeters are cheap and should be part of everyone's toolbox.
If you don't KNOW how much design headroom you've got in your
selection of circuit protection, then I'll respectfully suggest it's
easy to find out.
> In
>this case a breaker in reach is very handy because you can slow the plane
>down, reset the breaker and safely extend the flaps. If you have a remote
>fuse in such a case, a good pilot will reconsider runway length and
>conditions and go to another airport in case the approach speed is too high
>with only partially extended flaps.
An UNEXPECTED trip of circuit protection is a nuisance event
due to poor design and should be fixed. An EXPECTED and PLANNED
for trip means you're (1) flying a spam can and can't fix
it or (2) you don't know how your airplane performs under the full
envelope of flight conditions and made a decision not to
find out.
> Of course most POHs don't give you any
>guidance for runway lengths with no or partially extended flaps. Under the
>best of circumstances this is not much fun when a breaker will let you do it
>the way you originally wanted to do it. I of course have no personal
>experience with this but have heard those dark and stormy night tales.
I have never had to put an airplane down on a field
where the difference between having flaps and not having
flaps would have made a hill of beans worth of difference.
Virtually all the airports I operate out of have 1000' or more
of excess runway. If one plans to push both pilot and
airplane to the edge of performance limits on a landing
then a successful outcome is dependent on proper energy
management and manipulation of controls (where observance
of flap extension speed is but one of many considerations).
I've dissected dozens of dark and stormy night stories
for any engineering facts they might reveal. I may have
found a few useful tid-bits over the years but taken as
a whole, they are pretty much devoid of real data. The pilot who
wrote the story was at the mercy of his instructors,
regulators and manufacturer of the machine he was
operating . . . a victim of collective ignorance
and pockets of arrogance that is killing the certified
segment of GA. The advice these stories offer
miss an important feature of an OBAM aircraft:
I know it's a big shift in attitudes and thinking
to take full advantage of what the OBAM aircraft
community offers. In this particular case, let's
not design for what MAY happen because we don't
make an effort determine what WILL happen.
Then, take CONTROL of it in ways that make our
airplanes (and pilots) stand head and shoulders above the
rest of the GA community.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Solid state relay to replace master |
contactor
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
contactor
At 08:43 AM 10/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Sower <canarder@frontiernet.net>
>
><... maximum rated surge is only 270 amps ...>
>But wouldn't it still be ideal for an alternator relay that can be easily
>shut off for overvoltage>
depends on what you call "idea" . . . it's a trade off
of weight, size and $cost$ in order to achieve some
advantage in performance.
If you perceive a positive return on investment for
the substitution, then perhaps it is an ideal
alternative. . .
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Jumper for Video Camcorder |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
Bob,
I want to create a jumper to go from the co-pilot's audio jack to the
microphone input in a camcorder. I have stereo audio jacks. Can you
point me to a schematic that would illustrate how to make a jumper with
an audio jack on one end (that would convert from stereo to mono), then
have the smaller mic jack on the other end? Is this feasible? I think
the audio output will probably be better than the drone of the engine
when videoing in flight. I am assuming that the audio output will not
be too much for the mic input on the camcorder? Can you just plug a
mono audio jack into a stereo jack and have it combine left and right
channels?
As always, appreciate any input you can provide.
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7 QB (Building)
Vero Beach, FL
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content"MSHTML 6.00.2733.1800" nameGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT faceArial size2>Bob,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT faceArial size2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT faceArial size2>I want to create a jumper to go from
the co-pilot's
audio jack to the microphone input in a camcorder. I have stereo
audio
jacks. Can you point me to a schematic that would illustrate how
to make a
jumper with an audio jack on one end (that would convert from stereo to
mono),
then have the smaller mic jack on the other end? Is this
feasible? I
think the audio output will probably be better than the drone of the
engine when
videoing in flight. I am assuming that the audio output will not
be too
much for the mic input on the camcorder? Can you just plug a mono
audio
jack into a stereo jack and have it combine left and right
channels?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT faceArial size2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT faceArial size2>As always, appreciate any input you can
provide.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT faceArial size2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT faceArial size2>Pat Hatch<BR>RV-4<BR>RV-6<BR>RV-7 QB
(Building)<BR>Vero Beach, FL</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Starter/mag switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:36 PM 10/9/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David.vonLinsowe"
><David.vonLinsowe@delphi.com>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Twice the rpm with the electronic ignition is because the mag is putting
>out one pulse per rev and the E.I. puts out two. The EIS can be
>configured for either one pulse or two, but it can't change in mid stream.
I'm confused . . . every 4 cyl, 4-cycle engine needs two sparks per
revolution. I've seen waste-spark electronic systems that drive only
two of the four cylinders each . . . monitoring one of these systems
for rpm data would indeed produce 1 pulse per revolution.
On the other hand, a mag is just a self-powered version of the
Kettering points, capacitor, coil and distributor system . . . which
would produce two point operations, i.e. two pulses per revolution.
Is your EI system one of those I described above?
I developed a tach multiplier module for a Dragonfly builder
in AZ who was using a four-coil, waste-spark system on his
4-cyl Hapi engine. The stock VDO tachometer was unable to
resolve true engine rpm because the tach signal from one
ignition came in at half the expected rate. The multiplier
features a phase-locked-loop oscillator that used the half-rate
signal to produce a full rate output.
See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/VDO_Tach_Multiplier.pdf
This was designed and tested for the VDO tach, it might work
as-is for your tach but can be certainly modified to accommodate
any differences. This or a similar device could be wired between
the EI sensor signal and the tach select switch so that the
electronic tach sees the proper pulse rate vs. rpm for both
ignition systems.
Bob. . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Rotorway Massive Failure |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:06 AM 10/8/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Vince Ackerman <vack@mac.com>
>
>I am nearly finished building my Rotorway Exec 162f. I have slightly
>redesigned the electrical system to be more in line with the standards
>and practices found in Bob's Aerolectric book. The Rotorway electrical
>system is rather badly designed despite the fact that it has two
>FADEC's that are totally dependent on a constant source of 12 volts. If
>you have a total electrical failure, the engine quits. Despite that,
>this is the first time I've heard of a total failure on any ship. They
>supply a wiring harness for the entire aircraft and if you want to
>change anything, it involves some major work. I have made an essential
>bus and have separated out most of the subsystems to individual
>breakers but decided to leave the feed from alternator and battery
>alone. I did add a battery master/contactor but wonder if I'm not
>putting in a source of failure where one didn't exist before....
>
>I am sending Bob a copy of the electrical system schematic (I promised
>him a long time ago).
I seem to recall having a conversation about this airplane
some years ago. I can't recall if it was a builder or a factory
rep. I might even still have the drawings in a file somewhere.
As I recall, the conversation didn't go very far . . . after
the first few exchanges of questions and recommendations, the
guy at the other end of the conversation didn't like what
he was hearing and quit participating . . .
Let's revisit the system here on the List . . .
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Switches and breakers. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>Your infinite words of wisdom are requested Bob:
>
>
>I have purchased several switches and breakers from a local electronics
>store and am wondering about their suitability for use in aircraft (price
>was substantially lower than similar ones from Aircraft Spruce or even Van
>s). The hardware data is as follows:
>
>
>1)Potter and Brumfield 50 VDC, 7.5 AMP breaker/switch, W31-X2M1G-7.50,
>made in Mexico, screw terminals
>
>2)Potter and Brumfield 50 VDC, 6 AMP breaker, W58-XB1A4A-6P, made in
>Mexico, fast-on terminals
>
>3)SIEMENS 50 VDC, 3 AMP breaker, W58-XB1A4A-3P, made in Mexico, fast-on
>terminals
>
>4)Potter and Brumfield 32 VDC, 4 AMP breaker, W28-XQ1A-4P, !!!!! made in
>USA !!!!!, fast-on terminals
>
>5)Carling Switch 15 AMP, 125 Volt AC, SPST lighted (incandescent) rocker
>switch, made in Mexico, fast-on terminals
>
>6)EDK 5 AMP, 125 Volt AC, SPST lighted (LED) rocker switch, made in Japan,
>fast-on terminals
>
>
>Any good things or bad things to say about the above hardware or general
>words of wisdom on these items? Thanks.
Dean, you may be new to the list and are unaware
of our studies on goals for worry-free parts selection . . .
A reliable system is based not so much on WHAT parts
you use but upon HOW they are used. The reliable
flight system has a FAILURE TOLERANT architecture.
If you don't have a copy of the book,
See chapter 17 of the 'Connection at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev9/ch17-9.pdf
There's nothing particularly good, bad or indifferent
about the list of parts you've cited. The manner in
which you choose to use these parts can have a profound
effect on reliability of your project.
Tell us about your project and how you plan to use it.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna cable routing question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:56 PM 10/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
>Most convenient routing for my comm antenna cable (RG-400) takes it
>within about 3" of my Facet fuel pump- is this a no-no? Anyone have
>this condition in use without ill effects? Antenna on fuse bottom.
>
>Would the same apply for the xpndr antenna, also on fuse bottom?
After we've accomplished basic goals for noise reduction
with the use of single point grounds, proper use of shielding
where REALLY useful, reducing the number of fat wires in the
cockpit, all other issues drop to negligible if not infinitesimal
significance.
There is no good reason to avoid running your antenna coax
past the fuel pump.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Jumper for Video Camcorder |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:00 PM 10/10/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
>
>
>Bob,
>
>I want to create a jumper to go from the co-pilot's audio jack to the
>microphone input in a camcorder. I have stereo audio jacks. Can you
>point me to a schematic that would illustrate how to make a jumper with
>an audio jack on one end (that would convert from stereo to mono), then
>have the smaller mic jack on the other end? Is this feasible? I think
>the audio output will probably be better than the drone of the engine
>when videoing in flight. I am assuming that the audio output will not
>be too much for the mic input on the camcorder? Can you just plug a
>mono audio jack into a stereo jack and have it combine left and right
>channels?
here's how I would do it.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/micadapt.jpg
You'll have to experiment for the right value of R.
10 ohms is a good starting point. Make adjustments
in 50% increments. If too weak, try 15, 22, 33, 47
ohms, etc. If to strong, drop to 7.5, 4.7, 3.3, etc.
Using small resistors, the whole network can be contained
inside the shell of the headset plug.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Jumper for Video Camcorder |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
Thanks, Bob, hope this helps some others on the list as well.
do not archive.
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Jumper for Video Camcorder
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 01:00 PM 10/10/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
> >
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >I want to create a jumper to go from the co-pilot's audio jack to the
> >microphone input in a camcorder. I have stereo audio jacks. Can you
> >point me to a schematic that would illustrate how to make a jumper with
> >an audio jack on one end (that would convert from stereo to mono), then
> >have the smaller mic jack on the other end? Is this feasible? I think
> >the audio output will probably be better than the drone of the engine
> >when videoing in flight. I am assuming that the audio output will not
> >be too much for the mic input on the camcorder? Can you just plug a
> >mono audio jack into a stereo jack and have it combine left and right
> >channels?
>
>
> here's how I would do it.
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/micadapt.jpg
>
> You'll have to experiment for the right value of R.
> 10 ohms is a good starting point. Make adjustments
> in 50% increments. If too weak, try 15, 22, 33, 47
> ohms, etc. If to strong, drop to 7.5, 4.7, 3.3, etc.
>
> Using small resistors, the whole network can be contained
> inside the shell of the headset plug.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fuse Blocks, fuses, fusible links and CBs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Sower <canarder@frontiernet.net>
<... a good pilot will reconsider runway length and conditions and go to another
airport in case
the approach speed is too high with only partially extended flaps ...>
Flaps on GA airplanes are not that big a deal. And any good pilot knows that if
his flaps won't
deploy, he can make the approach no-flap and shut down the engine coming over the
fence. His
rollout will be less than if he had flaps. Of course, if this is actually necessary,
after he
fixes his flaps, his takeoff performance will be marginal indeed.
Just a theory ... Jim S.
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III CBs" wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
CBs
>
> At 02:25 PM 10/10/2003 +0900, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "fellowsw" <fellows.w@ewcapital.net>
> >
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