Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:21 AM - List of tools (Mickey Coggins)
2. 03:06 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 28 Mags - 10/08/03 (Neville Kilford)
3. 03:49 AM - Re: List of tools (Werner Schneider)
4. 07:24 AM - Re: magneto wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:35 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 10/10/03 (MikeM)
6. 07:43 AM - Re: Re: Alternator Noise in Headset (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:57 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 28 Mags - (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: magneto wiring (richard@riley.net)
9. 08:54 AM - Re: Grounding fuel flow sender (Gary Liming)
10. 12:37 PM - Re: Re: magneto wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 12:50 PM - Re: Grounding fuel flow sender (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 01:08 PM - Re: List of tools (Mark Phillips)
13. 01:43 PM - Older 'planes (Fergus Kyle)
14. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: magneto wiring (Matt Prather)
15. 04:06 PM - Crowbar OV protection (Richard May)
16. 04:56 PM - Re: Crowbar OV protection (Rino)
17. 07:20 PM - Re: Crowbar OV protection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 09:57 PM - Strobe head fix and silicone (Rob W M Shipley)
19. 09:58 PM - Re: Crowbar OV protection (Mark Phillips)
20. 11:00 PM - Re: Grounding fuel flow sender (Jim Jewell)
21. 11:53 PM - Pins (Steve Richard)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi,
I'm just starting my RV8, and due to my geographically
challenged location (mountains of Switzerland) I would
like to buy all the tools, testers, and meters that I
might for the electrical system of my RV8. I can get
almost nothing locally, except very simple household
wiring supplies.
I have purchased the 'Connection, as Bob calls it, and
am in the process of reading it. I'll be visiting the
US next week, and I'd like to pick up as much of the
stuff as I possibly can during this visit. I'll be
back in the states for Thanksgiving as well, so it's
not critical that I get everything in this visit.
Does anyone know of a list of tools, and possibly
suppliers, that I could use? I would much prefer to
err on the side of having a tool that I will never use
than to need something and to not have it, and have to
wait for it to be delivered.
I guess if I don't hear any suggestions I'll just buy
everything I can find in all the aviation catalogues,
but that seems a bit wasteful.
Thanks!
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 28 Mags - 10/08/03 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
Villi / Bob,
Thanks for the info. Makes perfect sense as you describe, except... I was
planning to use the dreaded key-operated mag / starter switch hence the
thought about the relay. Perhaps its time to go for toggles instead.
Cheers.
Nev
--
Jodel D-150 in progress
UK
----- Original Message -----
From: <villi.seemann@nordea.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 28 Mags - 10/08/03
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <villi.seemann@nordea.com>
>
> Hi Neville
>
> I've just made what you want for a friend with a Druine Turbulent. One mag
switch is replaced by a DPDT. One half is used as the p-lead contact. The
other half is used as a tacho selector.
> Dont put relays into such an installation.
>
>
> Best regards
> Villi H. Seemann
> Sen. Eng. BSEE
> Telephony Team
> Infrastructure, Network
> Phone (+45) 3333 2101
> Cell ph. (+45) 2220 7690
> FAX (+45) 3333 1130
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Electronic tacho & mag check
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
> >
> > I have heard of people taking a couple of capacitors and connecting them
in
> > series with the P-leads, then connect both leads, after the capacitors,
to
> > the tach. I am not sure how well this would work with your tach.
> >
> > I personally would look for a different system that had the capability to
> > monitor both p-leads all the time and let you know if there is any
> > difference. That is an engine monitor which could notify you in flight of
> > any difference in the RPMs of the left and right mag.
> >
> > I am currently working on building such an engine monitoring system.
> >
> > Trampas
> >
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: List of tools |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Hello Mickey,
you're going the fast lane =(;o), you will get all the electrical tools in
Switzerland, just at a much
higher price =(;o(( (www.distrelec.ch).
You can have a look at http://www.bandcspecialty.com/parts.html I bought
from them the crimp tools, a lot of wire, the toogle buttons, plugs, fastons
and the OV protection module, bus bars etc.
For more details contact me direct.
Before you start electrical wise you should go and design your setup with a
load analysis.
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: List of tools
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
<mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm just starting my RV8, and due to my geographically
> challenged location (mountains of Switzerland) I would
> like to buy all the tools, testers, and meters that I
> might for the electrical system of my RV8. I can get
> almost nothing locally, except very simple household
> wiring supplies.
>
> I have purchased the 'Connection, as Bob calls it, and
> am in the process of reading it. I'll be visiting the
> US next week, and I'd like to pick up as much of the
> stuff as I possibly can during this visit. I'll be
> back in the states for Thanksgiving as well, so it's
> not critical that I get everything in this visit.
>
> Does anyone know of a list of tools, and possibly
> suppliers, that I could use? I would much prefer to
> err on the side of having a tool that I will never use
> than to need something and to not have it, and have to
> wait for it to be delivered.
>
> I guess if I don't hear any suggestions I'll just buy
> everything I can find in all the aviation catalogues,
> but that seems a bit wasteful.
>
> Thanks!
> Mickey
>
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: magneto wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:24 AM 10/13/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Mitch Faatz (mitchfaatz@hotmail.com) on Monday, October 13, 2003 at 00:24:29
>
>Monday, October 13, 2003
>
>Mitch Faatz
>
>,
>Email: mitchfaatz@hotmail.com
>Comments/Questions: Bob, bought your Connection book a few years back,
>quick question: Starting an airplane with right mag energized can cause
>kickback, so we start with just left on. What about inflight restart?
The vast majority of airplanes (pushers being the
most notable exceptions) will windmill the prop in
flight. Restarting generally involves restoring fuel
flow and power will resume.
>1) Prop spinning: do you need to re-engage the starter every? If so, can
>kickback occur? I'm guessing not since prop is spinning.
Exactly . . . as long as the engine is still in motion,
all you need to do is get fuel flowing again . . . assuming
of course that you still have usable fuel aboard . . .
>2) Prop stopped: I'm guessing kick-back can occur here.
>
>If kickback can occur even during engine restart, how serious is it?
It can and routinely does break things . . . most notably
starter castings.
> I'm wondering if I should make my Right mag toggle disable the starter
> circuit.
Why not?
> Your suggestion in Append-Z to have left mag also with momentary
> starter won't work in my case because I want a starter button on my
> stick. I'll have a separate 'starter' toggle with switch guard:
> off=down, center=stick button enabled, up=engage starter. Dropping
> switch guard will move back to started disabled.
That's fine, but unless you have an impulse coupled
right mag, I'd disable the starter control circuit
while the right mag is ON. If you were using the
traditional off-l-r-both-start keyswitch, there
would be a jumper installed to effect this control
philosophy and it too has no way of differentiating
whether the cranking operation is in flight or
on the ground.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Well considered and technically elegant answers to
all of your questions are waiting for you there. Also,
check out the downloadable materials at
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 10/10/03 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MikeM <mladejov@ced.utah.edu>
Get a metal aircraft!
Seriously, it sounds like your transmitting antenna has a poor
ground plane and/or the Standing Wave Ratio of the antenna is
high. High SWR causes r.f. current to flow along the sheild of
the antenna coax, and then it spreads out and flows along every
piece of wiring in the entire aircraft, including the headset
wiring (all of it becomes part of the ground-plane the antenna
should have had...)
Put a decent ground-plane under the antenna, and your problems
will magically disappear...
Mike M.
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard May <ram45@comporium.net>
>
> In my aircraft, when I transmit on my comm radio, I hear a loud squeal in
> my headset. The avionics shop said it's due to the close proximity of the
> antenna to my headset, and the wire that goes across from one side of the
> headset to the other picks up the signal. The airplane is all wood, and
> the antenna is behind the back seat, inside the fuselage.
> Is there anything that can be done to get rid of this annoying noise?
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator Noise in Headset |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> You're a gentleman and a scholar and I apologize for my
> impatience.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Not a problem sir. BTW, you might consider trimming your
replies to throw out sections of the previous post that
do not add to the continuity of the conversation. This keeps
posts reasonably short and easier to read.
>If the noise is present with the alternator OFF, then I don't
>see how this system can be involved. Does the tone vary in pitch
>with engine rpm . . . alternator generated noises do vary in pitch
>with rpm and they go away when the alternator is turned off.
><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> I'll have to check that on the next flight.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
High pitched whines come from three common antagonists
in aircraft . . . alternators, strobe power supplies and
some motors. In every case, shutting the suspect system
OFF kills the noise. Strobe and Alternator noise are distinctive
in their variable pitch (one with rpm, the other with each
firing of the strobe system).
>Do you hear the noise whether or not there is a radio
>transmission being received?
>
><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> Yes, the noise was overlaid on received radio transmissions.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This is an important clue. This means the radios
are not involved which means further that the
noise is not an radiated RF propagation mode. Noise
gets into audio systems mostly by conduction . . . i.e.
poor grounding techniques and/or conducted into the
system via the +14v bus supply.
>I.e., heard in the intercom
>only with microphone and radio squelch gates closed? Is
>the intercom battery powered or powered from the bus?
>
><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> From what I've determined the electrical architecture in
> this plane is such a kludge that there ARE no distinct busses. For
> example, in the circuit breaker panel, the ground sides of the CBs are
> wired together with 14AWG wire, CB to CB in series, rather than in
> parallel to a bus (which could have been as simple as a piece of
> copper). As you mention in the Connection, obviously not the way to do
> it. I'll show it to you in Watsonville.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Okay, it sounds like your airplane may be a good candidate
for substantial rehabilitation. We can discuss this more
at the seminar.
>If battery powered, how about trying a new battery . . .some
>audio systems become squealers when the battery voltage drops
>and power source impedance goes up.
><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> Yesterday I flew a short hop battery-only (alternator
> switch off) and didn't hear any tone. As I recall voltage was about 13 V.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Good. Let's turn the alternator back on and check for (1)
is noise present and (2) does it vary in pitch with
rpm. Do this check with (1) minimum loads . . . turn on
only those radios/audio system needed to have the potential
victims active and (2) maximum loads . . . turn everything
ON to get highest practical load on the alternator.
>We could use your airplane as a study topic at the Watsonville seminar.
>
><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> I'll bring it if weather permits me to get into
> Watsonville VFR.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Great.
>Bring all the drawings you have.
>
><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
>The only drawings I have are the ones I'm making through reverse
>engineering! But it's certainly educational.
I recall high school and college teachers telling me that the
best way to study in class was to make brief but good memory
jogging notes. At home in the evening, transcribe your notes
and ELABORATE on them based on what you have retained from the
class a few hours earlier. This will create a document that
will open LOTS of good memory doors when you re-read them to
review for the test.
Your effort to accurate document what's already installed
may yield good clues as to why things don't work well now
as well as lay the groundwork for upgrading the system
later. It's not a wasted effort.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RE: AeroElectric-List Digest: 28 Mags - |
10/08/03
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
10/08/03
At 11:06 AM 10/13/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
><nkilford@etravel.org>
>
>Villi / Bob,
>
>Thanks for the info. Makes perfect sense as you describe, except... I was
>planning to use the dreaded key-operated mag / starter switch hence the
>thought about the relay. Perhaps its time to go for toggles instead.
>
>Cheers.
>
>Nev
Hmmmm . . . yup, them thar keyswitches do limit your options . . .
Bob . . .
Message 8
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aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: magneto wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
At 09:23 AM 10/13/03 -0500, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> >Comments/Questions: Bob, bought your Connection book a few years back,
> >quick question: Starting an airplane with right mag energized can cause
> >kickback, so we start with just left on. What about inflight restart?
>
> The vast majority of airplanes (pushers being the
> most notable exceptions) will windmill the prop in
> flight. Restarting generally involves restoring fuel
> flow and power will resume.
Pushers windmill the prop nicely. In a canard pusher, the windmilling prop
reduces glide significantly (no more so than any other plane, but
canard-pushers is where my experience is.) Depending on what the prop
pitch is, since your minimum speed is limited by the canard stall speed,
you may not be able to get slow enough to stop the windmilling prop.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding fuel flow sender |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gary Liming <gary@liming.org>
At 09:29 PM 10/12/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
>
>I'm rebuilding the induction system on a Lyc IO-540. There's a Floscan
>transducer there already, from a previous engine instrument installation,
>but it looks like I'm going to have to re-position it.
>
>I know about keeping the fuel flow straight for as long as possible going
>in and out of the transducer, but at one point I was told that the
>transducer shouldn't be grounded - that it should be stepped off the engine
>on insulators, and that the fuel lines before and after the transducer
>should be rubber.
>
>This doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and I *really* don't want
>anything but stainless line for fuel on that side of the firewall. Does
>anyone know if this bit of advice is true, urban legend, or something
>inbetween?
The instructions I have for the Floscan transducer doesn't say anything
about not being grounded.
Hope that helps,
Gary Liming
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: magneto wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:19 AM 10/13/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
>
>At 09:23 AM 10/13/03 -0500, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> > >Comments/Questions: Bob, bought your Connection book a few years back,
> > >quick question: Starting an airplane with right mag energized can cause
> > >kickback, so we start with just left on. What about inflight restart?
> >
> > The vast majority of airplanes (pushers being the
> > most notable exceptions) will windmill the prop in
> > flight. Restarting generally involves restoring fuel
> > flow and power will resume.
>
>Pushers windmill the prop nicely. In a canard pusher, the windmilling prop
>reduces glide significantly (no more so than any other plane, but
>canard-pushers is where my experience is.) Depending on what the prop
>pitch is, since your minimum speed is limited by the canard stall speed,
>you may not be able to get slow enough to stop the windmilling prop.
Thanks for the data point on Richard. I don't recall now
where I was told that the pushers were more likely not
to windmill . . . I've been belabored of that information
for a number of years.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding fuel flow sender |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:54 AM 10/13/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gary Liming <gary@liming.org>
>
>At 09:29 PM 10/12/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
> >
> >I'm rebuilding the induction system on a Lyc IO-540. There's a Floscan
> >transducer there already, from a previous engine instrument installation,
> >but it looks like I'm going to have to re-position it.
> >
> >I know about keeping the fuel flow straight for as long as possible going
> >in and out of the transducer, but at one point I was told that the
> >transducer shouldn't be grounded - that it should be stepped off the engine
> >on insulators, and that the fuel lines before and after the transducer
> >should be rubber.
> >
> >This doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and I *really* don't want
> >anything but stainless line for fuel on that side of the firewall. Does
> >anyone know if this bit of advice is true, urban legend, or something
> >inbetween?
One of the very best ways to get information about a product
is to contact the folks who build it. A short not to
mailto:support@flowscan.com may do wonders for your confidence
with the installation.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: List of tools |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
I heartily second Werner's suggestion- I just completed wiring my RV
using tools and materials almost exclusively from B&C, including the
alternator, contactors, wires etc. Once you have a firm understanding
of the invaluable information in the 'Connection and have your system
design firmed up, it's easy to place one order to B&C and you should be
able to get the whole package sent- (you DO have UPS, don't you?) ..just
order a LOT more wire and fastons than you estimate you'll need!! Bob
Nuckolls, the Aeroelectric list & B&C- does it get any better?
Best wishes- Mark Phillips, RV-6A Columbia, TN, USA
Werner Schneider wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
>
> Hello Mickey,
>
> you're going the fast lane =(;o), you will get all the electrical tools in
> Switzerland, just at a much
> higher price =(;o(( (www.distrelec.ch).
>
> You can have a look at http://www.bandcspecialty.com/parts.html I bought
> from them the crimp tools, a lot of wire, the toogle buttons, plugs, fastons
> and the OV protection module, bus bars etc.
>
> For more details contact me direct.
>
> Before you start electrical wise you should go and design your setup with a
> load analysis.
>
> Werner
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: List of tools
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
>>
> <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm just starting my RV8, and due to my geographically
>>challenged location (mountains of Switzerland) I would
>>like to buy all the tools, testers, and meters that I
>>might for the electrical system of my RV8. I can get
>>almost nothing locally, except very simple household
>>wiring supplies.
>>
>>I have purchased the 'Connection, as Bob calls it, and
>>am in the process of reading it. I'll be visiting the
>>US next week, and I'd like to pick up as much of the
>>stuff as I possibly can during this visit. I'll be
>>back in the states for Thanksgiving as well, so it's
>>not critical that I get everything in this visit.
>>
>>Does anyone know of a list of tools, and possibly
>>suppliers, that I could use? I would much prefer to
>>err on the side of having a tool that I will never use
>>than to need something and to not have it, and have to
>>wait for it to be delivered.
>>
>>I guess if I don't hear any suggestions I'll just buy
>>everything I can find in all the aviation catalogues,
>>but that seems a bit wasteful.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>Mickey
>>
>>
>>--
>>Mickey Coggins
>>http://www.rv8.ch/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Just for info, the NA64 Yale with partial flap will stall and flick
starboard to inverted, AND 30deg nose down, in 1/30 second (timed it
myself). That's the interval of one video/cine shot. So it's "blue up, brown
down - brown up, blue down - dead" in one swell foop.
Admittedly, older aircraft require careful study, but it seems to me
that certified designs require a physical warning three knots above normal
stall (at least here anyway). It might be a good idea to see if yours does.
Cheers, Ferg
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: magneto wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Just one more comment.... I believe the cp configuration is more
likely to not windmill, as compared to tractor configs. One isssue
is that the cp's often run very high pitch/low diameter props (56in dia
x 70in pitch is a common Varieze prop) in order to take advantage of the
relative aerodynamic cleanliness of the configuration. This means that
relatively high airspeeds are required for the prop to generate enough
lift to make the torque on the crank to maintain rotation. Most tractor
configured airplanes of similar horsepower don't use that much prop pitch.
The other issue is that if the prop does stop, lots of airspeed may be
required to get it going again (maybe as much as 115kts). This is peculiar
to cp's as well, because the prop is most likely to stop in a position
where it is hidden from the slipstream by the wings. 3 blade props on
cp's are much less likely to suffer from this because you can't more than
of the 3 blades behind the wing at the same time.
Richard is right, in that cp's do windmill, but maybe not as readily.
Sorry for the long OT.
Regards,
Matt Prather
VE N34RD
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 08:19 AM 10/13/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
>>
>>At 09:23 AM 10/13/03 -0500, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>
>>
>> > >Comments/Questions: Bob, bought your Connection book a few years
>> back, quick question: Starting an airplane with right mag energized
>> can cause kickback, so we start with just left on. What about
>> inflight restart?
>> >
>> > The vast majority of airplanes (pushers being the
>> > most notable exceptions) will windmill the prop in
>> > flight. Restarting generally involves restoring fuel
>> > flow and power will resume.
>>
>>Pushers windmill the prop nicely. In a canard pusher, the windmilling
>> prop reduces glide significantly (no more so than any other plane, but
>> canard-pushers is where my experience is.) Depending on what the prop
>> pitch is, since your minimum speed is limited by the canard stall
>> speed, you may not be able to get slow enough to stop the windmilling
>> prop.
>
> Thanks for the data point on Richard. I don't recall now
> where I was told that the pushers were more likely not
> to windmill . . . I've been belabored of that information
> for a number of years.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
Message 15
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| Subject: | Crowbar OV protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard May <ram45@comporium.net>
I've been looking at the wiring of the crowbar overvoltage module, but one
thing concerns me. What if the circuit breaker shorts out??? Then what?
Total meltdown.
I know of that happening once on a Lockheed L-1011, and they don't put
anything but the best in those birds. The weakness of the crowbar OV system
is it is totally reliant on a perfect circuit breaker. I guess the thing to
do is test it constantly.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Crowbar OV protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rino <lacombr@nbnet.nb.ca>
Richard May wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard May <ram45@comporium.net>
>
> I've been looking at the wiring of the crowbar overvoltage module, but one
> thing concerns me. What if the circuit breaker shorts out??? Then what?
> Total meltdown.
> I know of that happening once on a Lockheed L-1011, and they don't put
> anything but the best in those birds. The weakness of the crowbar OV system
> is it is totally reliant on a perfect circuit breaker. I guess the thing to
> do is test it constantly.
A fuse does not short out.
Rino
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Crowbar OV protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:58 PM 10/13/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard May <ram45@comporium.net>
>
>I've been looking at the wiring of the crowbar overvoltage module, but one
>thing concerns me. What if the circuit breaker shorts out??? Then what?
>Total meltdown.
>I know of that happening once on a Lockheed L-1011, and they don't put
>anything but the best in those birds. The weakness of the crowbar OV system
>is it is totally reliant on a perfect circuit breaker. I guess the thing to
>do is test it constantly.
Any ov protection system is totally reliant on solder joints that might
not have been made correctly, resistors that may open, diodes that
may short, transistors that may crack, etc. etc. . . .
I've heard the "shorted" or "failed to open" stories for circuit
breakers . . . even a few persist around RAC from back in the
Beech days. Funny thing, nobody claims to have seen it personally.
There were no official condition reports written or investigations
as to root cause. Do you know what kind of circuit breaker
was involved in the L1011 incident? There are perhaps a half
dozen or more technologies that could be involved. One that comes
to mind are "remote controlled" circuit breakers which are
really contactors driven by specialty sensing circuits for current
and a myriad of other parameters to decide when to open
or stay closed. The parts count on these critters is high and
the need for extra-ordinary care in qualification and
fabrication is equally high. Do you know if this particular
"dark-n-stormy-night" breaker was one of the simple, bi-metal
devices popular in our designs (which by the way, tend to fail open)
and not one of the "super breakers" that the air-transport
guys are fond of?
I've designed dozens of ov relay systems and have first-hand
experience with making them last under the most demanding
requirements levied by the OEMs. I've also documented the
way they add to the voltage drops in the field supply feeder
that increase probability of regulator instability.
OV relays have performed reasonably well for decades. If you
don't mind their shortcomings and find them more comforting,
then by all means. However, I can find no documented data
to suggest the crowbar system implemented with a popular,
relatively low cost breaker having a bi-metal sensor is more
likely to malfunction than the relay based ov protection
system.
You could add a fusible link to back up a breaker
if you're unconvinced as to its quality and failure modes . . .
or leave the breaker out completely and use a fuse. This
leaves you no options for dealing with nuisance trips but
then, this is just one of MANY forms of alternator failure
and you're going to be ready do deal with that comfortably
no mater what the cause . . . right?
Bob . . .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Strobe head fix and silicone |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" <rob@robsglass.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobe head fix
>Can silicone be used to re-seal the glass lens to the transformer/plastic
>base of the head ?
>If so, what grade is best ?
Bob's answer was
Electronic grade (does not smell of vinegar).
This is also known as "neutral cure" silicone and should be available for less
than five bucks a tube from any auto glass shop. This is a far safer product
to use around any metal construction as it is non acidic than the normal silicones
which contain acetic acid.
Clean the surfaces carefully with alcohol and allow to dry before applying. Depending
on how thickly you apply it it can take over twenty four hours to fully
cure so make sure the parts are held together at least overnight.
Good luck
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Crowbar OV protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Total meltdown? Right up to the point that the wire changes from one
conductor into several, separated by "opens"- if you are concerned about
the minuscule likelihood of this event, you need to worry about a lot of
other stuff- wings falling off, cats sleeping with dogs, the rapture,
proof bournelli was wrong etc. Nuckolls sez a fuze here is susceptible
to nuisance trips- Test your breaker- if it works, sweat the other stuff...
Place your hand on the 'Connection and repeat after me-
Oooooohhhhhhhmmmmmmm..........
Vooooooooollllllllllllllttttttttt..........
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmppppppppppppppppp..................
And puh-leeeeeze, do not archive !!!!!!!!
Mark
Rino wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rino <lacombr@nbnet.nb.ca>
>
> Richard May wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard May <ram45@comporium.net>
>>
>>I've been looking at the wiring of the crowbar overvoltage module, but one
>>thing concerns me. What if the circuit breaker shorts out??? Then what?
>>Total meltdown.
>>I know of that happening once on a Lockheed L-1011, and they don't put
>>anything but the best in those birds. The weakness of the crowbar OV system
>>is it is totally reliant on a perfect circuit breaker. I guess the thing to
>>do is test it constantly.
>>
>
> A fuse does not short out.
>
> Rino
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding fuel flow sender |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
At 09:29 PM 10/12/2003 -0700, you wrote:
AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
I'm rebuilding the induction system on a Lyc IO-540. There's a Floscan
transducer there already, from a previous engine instrument installation,
but it looks like I'm going to have to re-position it.
>I know about keeping the fuel flow straight for as long as possible going
>in and out of the transducer, but at one point I was told that the
>transducer shouldn't be grounded - that it should be stepped off the engine
>on insulators, and that the fuel lines before and after the transducer
>should be rubber.
>This doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and I *really* don't want
>anything but stainless line for fuel on that side of the firewall. Does
>anyone know if this bit of advice is true, urban legend, or something
>inbetween?
From the wording of the advice you where given I would say the intent was to
advise you isolate the Floscan unit from mechanical vibration as apposed to
electrical grounding.
The suggestion; "that it should be stepped off the engine on insulators"
would make sence if you intend to mount it 'on the engine'. the internals
of the unit do not take well to being unduly vibrated.
Mount the Floscan on the firewall and It should work just fine.
As far as your concern about grounding the unit electrically take Bob's
advice and call the product maker. I expect that they will happy to set
things straight for you.
Jim in Kelowna
Message 21
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Richard" <steve@oasissolutions.com>
Can the pin shown on the B&C web site (Part # S604P) be used for AMP CPC
connectors? Or are the pins shown on page 566 of the mouser catalog the
same as the B&C pins?
http://www.bandcspecialty.com/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?24X358218
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/615/566.pdf
Part #'s
571-2050901
571-2058412
Thanks
Steve Richard
steve@oasissolutions.com
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