Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:34 AM - Need for relays? (Mark Banus)
2. 07:08 AM - Track width on PCB (Gilles.Thesee)
3. 07:37 AM - Re: Track width on PCB (David Swartzendruber)
4. 07:43 AM - Re: Track width on PCB (Trampas)
5. 08:03 AM - Re: Strobe head fix and silicone (richard@riley.net)
6. 08:49 AM - Re: Track width on PCB (David E. Nelson)
7. 09:48 AM - Re: Crowbar OV protection (Richard May)
8. 10:35 AM - Terra TX 760 D VHF Transceiver (Mcculleyja@aol.com)
9. 02:36 PM - Re: Need for relays? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 02:45 PM - Re: question on Z1 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 02:50 PM - Re: Need for relays? P.S. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 04:44 PM - Re: Strobe head fix and silicone (DWENSING@aol.com)
13. 07:25 PM - First to toast a Microair 760? (Mark Phillips)
14. 09:01 PM - Re: Heated Pitot Wiring (Ernest Kells)
15. 10:06 PM - Re: First to toast a Microair 760? (Scott, Ian)
16. 11:00 PM - Re: Heated Pitot Wiring (Werner Schneider)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Need for relays? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Banus" <mbanus@hotmail.com>
Bob,
Just received plans for an engine install. It shows all switches with #22 wire
going to relays (22 Relays). My understanding is that certain heavy loads
(Pitot heat etc) need a relay as the switches can't handle the amps. But do I
need relays for 3-10 amp circuits? More relays are more components to fail.
I have looked at 125v 10 and 15 amp rocker switches from Digikey that look like
they can handle the current. Pro/cons? Thanks
Message 2
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| Subject: | Track width on PCB |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Hi Bob and all,
Our aileron trim servo (RAC trim) will be commanded through a small dual
relay. I'm in the process of designining a suitable PCB for this relay,
diodes and wires.
The relay is rated at 10 amps, but the circuit will be fused at 1 to 3 amps.
Questions :
-What is the adequate width of the circuit board tracks for 3 amps ?
- And what width for, say, 10 amps ?
-Is there an accepted relationship between current and track width ?
Thank you
Regards
Gilles
Message 3
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| Subject: | Track width on PCB |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
My chart shows that to obtain a 10deg C rise in temperature using 2oz
copper the following track widths would be used:
10A .170in
5A .070in
3A .032in
Of course, if you've got the room, making them even wider doesn't hurt
anything.
Dave in Wichita
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles.Thesee
> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 9:06 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Track width on PCB
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee"
> <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi Bob and all,
>
> Our aileron trim servo (RAC trim) will be commanded through a small
dual
> relay. I'm in the process of designining a suitable PCB for this
relay,
> diodes and wires.
> The relay is rated at 10 amps, but the circuit will be fused at 1 to 3
> amps.
>
> Questions :
>
> -What is the adequate width of the circuit board tracks for 3 amps ?
> - And what width for, say, 10 amps ?
>
> -Is there an accepted relationship between current and track width ?
>
> Thank you
> Regards
>
> Gilles
>
>
>
==
>
==
http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
>
==
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
>
==
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Track width on PCB |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
Try this link
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/9643/TraceWidth.htm
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Gilles.Thesee
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Track width on PCB
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee"
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Hi Bob and all,
Our aileron trim servo (RAC trim) will be commanded through a small dual
relay. I'm in the process of designining a suitable PCB for this relay,
diodes and wires.
The relay is rated at 10 amps, but the circuit will be fused at 1 to 3 amps.
Questions :
-What is the adequate width of the circuit board tracks for 3 amps ?
- And what width for, say, 10 amps ?
-Is there an accepted relationship between current and track width ?
Thank you
Regards
Gilles
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe head fix and silicone |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
Is "neutral cure" silicone as strong, weather resistant and temperature
restistant, etc, as the acetic acid stuff?
At 09:57 PM 10/13/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" <rob@robsglass.com>
>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strobe head fix
>
> >Can silicone be used to re-seal the glass lens to the transformer/plastic
> >base of the head ?
> >If so, what grade is best ?
>Bob's answer was
> Electronic grade (does not smell of vinegar).
>
>This is also known as "neutral cure" silicone and should be available for
>less than five bucks a tube from any auto glass shop. This is a far safer
>product to use around any metal construction as it is non acidic than the
>normal silicones which contain acetic acid.
>Clean the surfaces carefully with alcohol and allow to dry before
>applying. Depending on how thickly you apply it it can take over twenty
>four hours to fully cure so make sure the parts are held together at least
>overnight.
>Good luck
>Rob
>Rob W M Shipley
>RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Track width on PCB |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
Hi Gilles,
I did a google seach (pcb track width current amps) and found a PCB track width
calculator:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/9643/TraceWidth.htm
Regards,
/\/elson
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Gilles.Thesee wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi Bob and all,
>
> Our aileron trim servo (RAC trim) will be commanded through a small dual
> relay. I'm in the process of designining a suitable PCB for this relay,
> diodes and wires.
> The relay is rated at 10 amps, but the circuit will be fused at 1 to 3 amps.
>
> Questions :
>
> -What is the adequate width of the circuit board tracks for 3 amps ?
> - And what width for, say, 10 amps ?
>
> -Is there an accepted relationship between current and track width ?
>
> Thank you
> Regards
>
> Gilles
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~
time, then break it again.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Crowbar OV protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard May <ram45@comporium.net>
You know, I think something may be amiss also. When I did the test to check
the crowbar OV feature of my LR3A voltage regulator, by using the jumper
wire procedure, it tripped my alternator breaker, not the field breaker.
That's why I was concerned about the crowbar's method of tripping the
alternator breaker. I figured it must be a heck of a jolt to the whole
electrical system to send a short that would exceed the capacity of my 40
amp breaker through the wires. Once I got the LR3 installed, cranked up the
engine, it showed a positive charge, and everything seemed normal. The amp
gauge showed a strong charge, and the volt meter went up to 14. But
yesterday, when I turned on the master, (engine off) I noticed that
regardless how many electrical items I turned on, the amp gauge would never
move into the negative range. And I was turning on landing lights, ect..
and the amp needle never budged. I'm not sure if my amp gauge is broken,
and only reading in the positive range, or the wiring is wrong.
R.May
Message 8
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| Subject: | Terra TX 760 D VHF Transceiver |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mcculleyja@aol.com
My Terra 760 D comm unit was installed in a new panel several years ago while
building the aircraft that recently made first flight. At time of
installation, it performed well during checks with airborne friends while I still
had it
in the garage completing other tasks. However, during the first several
flights it would not transmit beyond about a mile, but the reception was
outstanding. Subsequently, after borrowing an identical unit for flight comparisons
and after having mine in and out of the tray a few times, mine is now reasonably
good out to at least 35 miles, but still slightly weaker than the borrowed
unit. Is it possible that the removal/replacement process several times
polished the coax connector pins to reduce some mild corrosion or otherwise reduce
impedance through the connector? If so, was the receiver not also affected
simply because slight impedance increase in the antenna/coax system just doesn't
affect reception proportionally as much as transmission? OR do I still
probably have an internal deficiency in my unit? Any comments, guidance----anyone?
Thanks.
Jim McCulley
mcculleyja@aol.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Need for relays? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:32 AM 10/15/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Banus" <mbanus@hotmail.com>
>
>Bob,
> Just received plans for an engine install. It shows all switches with
> #22 wire going to relays (22 Relays). My understanding is that certain
> heavy loads (Pitot heat etc) need a relay as the switches can't handle
> the amps. But do I need relays for 3-10 amp circuits? More relays are
> more components to fail. I have looked at 125v 10 and 15 amp rocker
> switches from Digikey that look like they can handle the current.
> Pro/cons? Thanks\
Your switches will probably be just fine directly
switching the loads. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: question on Z1 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:20 PM 10/15/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>Don Burton (dburton@nlxcorp.com) on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 at 07:20:23
>
>Wednesday, October 15, 2003
>
>Don Burton
>
>,
>Email: dburton@nlxcorp.com
>Comments/Questions: Bob,
>I had a question on the Z1 drawing and the auto bus shedding.
First, I'll suggest that you download the updates to your book
which you can find at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html
> I can't figure out how this can work when there is a 4awg wire from the
> battery contactor to the main bus. It seems that even if the alternator
> fails, as long as the battery contactor is closed, the main bus will be
> powered.
Yup, when you go to battery-only operations, you turn
the master switch OFF and e-bus alternate feed switch ON so
ONLY the endurance bus gets powered . . . .
>It seems that the essential bus feed switch should be normally open?
Yes . . . except during battery-only operations.
>I may have misunderstood the alt/bat switch. Shouldn't this be a 3
>position switch to turn the alternator on/off with the bat contactor
>closed (i.e. Battery & Alternator Off /Battery On & Alternator Off
>/Battery On & Alternator On).
The earlier diagrams like Z-1 simply bring the battery and
alternator ON and OFF together. If you have a crowbar ov
protection system with pullable breaker, you have a handy
means for battery-only ops of main bus by pulling breaker
either on the ground or in flight.
Later versions like Z-11 suggest another option of using
a progressive transfer 2-10 switch to offer a mid, battery
only position. Either system works fine and the 2-3 switch
shown in figure Z-1 is less expensive.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Need for relays? P.S. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:32 AM 10/15/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Banus" <mbanus@hotmail.com>
>
>Bob,
> Just received plans for an engine install.
> It shows all switches with #22 wire going to relays
> (22 Relays).
Just out of curiosity, how many things in your airplane
need to have panel mounted switches for control? . . .
and who's installation drawings suggest using relays
to control everything? I am suspicious . . . if the
supplier of your engine and its recommended installation
instructions doesn't know enough about system architecture
to AVOID unnecessary complexity, I'd be skeptical of
their overall system knowledge.
Not raising any red flags . . . but it would be interesting to
understand more about the system you're working with.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe head fix and silicone |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: DWENSING@aol.com
In a message dated 10/15/03 11:04:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
richard@riley.net writes:
> Is "neutral cure" silicone as strong, weather resistant and temperature
> resistant, etc., as the acetic acid stuff?
>
There are various neutral cure silicone sealants. Some are flowable- some are
not. Some are formulated for electronic application while others are
formulated for construction application such as adhering to concrete. And there
are
others. Suggest you follow Bob's lead and stick with the electronic grade. For
the most part the weather resistance and temperature stability of the neutral
cure are about the same as the acetic acid cured stuff. And unless you are
using it as a structural adhesive the adhesion, tear strength and elongation
should be adequate for application.
Dale Ensing
Message 13
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| Subject: | First to toast a Microair 760? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
I dragged the radio out of the box for the first time since buying it
from ACS at Oshkosh '02, it worked great for about 10 minutes, even
transmitting to a buddy with a handheld over hilly terrain on the ground
about 5 miles away, then on a subsequent power-up, most every button
I hit on it executes a freq. flip-flop!? If I punch the Up/down
(tuning) button, it does a flip-flop instead of switching to Khz tuning-
same deal with Mode, Priority & Flip-flop buttons- Even made up a basic
test harness and it does the same thing------ never heard of a problem
with these things- could I be the first to ruin one or is it a "bad" unit?
All input appreciated- any Microair GURUS out there? Even take a RUGU
at this point!!
Mark - do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot Wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells@sympatico.ca>
Bob: I have a Vans RV-9A metal plane. I have installed a Warren Gretz
heated pitot tube (AN5812-12 12V).
Based upon your post 18 months ago I have started installing the wire - -
14awg wire (16 foot run) and a 15Amp fuse. I researched your post of Feb 1
2002 where you suggest 14awg and a 20amp fuse. On Oct 14, 2003 you say
12awg and 20 amp fuse. I don't know if I should rip out the fuselage wire
to use 12 awg wire. I am Canadian and plan to do winter flying, so nuisance
trips are not acceptable. Also, I would like to be able to consider heat
seats, if necessary.
Can you help me with this paradox? Thanks
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
90 plus % Complete - Wiring
Message 15
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| Subject: | First to toast a Microair 760? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott, Ian" <ian_scott@rslcom.com.au>
suggest you call
Microair Avionics
Australia Ph +617 4155 3048
they will be there for another hour.
Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Phillips [mailto:ripsteel@edge.net]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: First to toast a Microair 760?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
I dragged the radio out of the box for the first time since buying it
from ACS at Oshkosh '02, it worked great for about 10 minutes, even
transmitting to a buddy with a handheld over hilly terrain on the ground
about 5 miles away, then on a subsequent power-up, most every button
I hit on it executes a freq. flip-flop!? If I punch the Up/down
(tuning) button, it does a flip-flop instead of switching to Khz tuning-
same deal with Mode, Priority & Flip-flop buttons- Even made up a basic
test harness and it does the same thing------ never heard of a problem
with these things- could I be the first to ruin one or is it a "bad" unit?
All input appreciated- any Microair GURUS out there? Even take a RUGU
at this point!!
Mark - do not archive
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot Wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Hello Ernest,
I have exactly the same pitot in my Glastar, I did check current, it shows
12 A on switch on and stabilize on 6.8 A thereafter, this was measured
battery only operation on ground, I've used AWG 14 and a 15A fuse I guess
about 16-20ft of lenght. I did not use it very often so far (9.75h on the
tacho), but the 3-4 times I tested it I had no blown fuses.
Hope it helpes
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Heated Pitot Wiring
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ernest Kells"
<ernest.kells@sympatico.ca>
>
> Bob: I have a Vans RV-9A metal plane. I have installed a Warren Gretz
> heated pitot tube (AN5812-12 12V).
>
> Based upon your post 18 months ago I have started installing the wire - -
> 14awg wire (16 foot run) and a 15Amp fuse. I researched your post of Feb
1
> 2002 where you suggest 14awg and a 20amp fuse. On Oct 14, 2003 you say
> 12awg and 20 amp fuse. I don't know if I should rip out the fuselage
wire
> to use 12 awg wire. I am Canadian and plan to do winter flying, so
nuisance
> trips are not acceptable. Also, I would like to be able to consider heat
> seats, if necessary.
>
> Can you help me with this paradox? Thanks
>
> Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
> 90 plus % Complete - Wiring
>
>
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