Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:53 AM - Re: thermistors for low fuel warning (Rick Caldwell)
2. 06:22 AM - Re: thermistors for low fuel warning (Trampas)
3. 07:13 AM - Re: Strobe wire? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:21 AM - Re: Transponder Main bus or Essential Bus (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:49 AM - Re: thermistors for low fuel warning (Werner Schneider)
6. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: Strobe wire? (Bill Hibbing)
7. 08:12 AM - Re: thermistors for low fuel warning (Trampas)
8. 08:24 AM - Re: thermistors for low fuel warning (John Slade)
9. 08:37 AM - Re: Transponder Main bus or Essential Bus (John R)
10. 09:38 AM - solar battery charger (Richard May)
11. 10:51 AM - solar battery charger (Eric M. Jones)
12. 11:13 AM - Re: solar battery charger (caspainhower@aep.com)
13. 11:56 AM - Re: Transponder Main bus or Essential Bus (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: Strobe wire? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 11:59 AM - Re: 10856 Wandke (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 12:00 PM - Re: Re: Strobe wire? (jerb)
17. 12:14 PM - Re: thermistors for low fuel warning (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 12:23 PM - Current Limiters (PTACKABURY@aol.com)
19. 01:40 PM - Re: thermistors for low fuel warning (Werner Schneider)
20. 01:41 PM - Re: Current Limiters (Matt Prather)
21. 01:47 PM - Re: thermistors for low fuel warning (Joa Harrison)
22. 03:25 PM - Re: thermistors for low fuel warning (Trampas)
23. 03:54 PM - Re: Transponder Main bus or Essential Bus (Tom Brusehaver)
24. 04:43 PM - Re: Need for relays? (jerb)
25. 04:57 PM - Bob, external power receptacle (Jerzy Krasinski)
26. 10:45 PM - Re: Need for relays? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
27. 10:47 PM - Re: Need for relays? (kempthornes)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: thermistors for low fuel warning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Caldwell" <rickca@trib.com>
Joa;
I am interested in how you are going to design your low level waring
system? Are you looking for a temperature change? Or is their another use
for thermistors? If I can help out let me know.
Rick Caldwell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joa Harrison" <flyasuperseven@yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: thermistors for low fuel warning
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joa Harrison
<flyasuperseven@yahoo.com>
>
>
> I have the need for two thermistors for low fuel warning. The first is
for my homebuilt and needs to be 14 vdc, very affordable, and fairly robust.
The second is for a 28vdc certified design (to replace a float switch) and
must be made for certified aircraft (or the military). I need info on the
first one for my hobby (well, thats what my wife calls it, I prefer to call
it my secondary vocation) and the second one is for my day job (and what I
call my hobby!)
>
>
> What would you all suggest?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Joa
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | thermistors for low fuel warning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
I found this on the web:
Toyota thermistor low fuel circuit description:
On a Toyota, they put a thermistor in the gas tank. It's not a potentiometer
type sending unit. The thermistor has current and voltage supplied to it and
a light bulb is in series with it continuously. This continuously heats up
the thermistor and at low fuel levels, the resistance drops causing the
indicator light to turn ON as the current goes up.
When the thermistor is immersed in fuel, the fuel keeps the thermistor
cooled off, the resistance remains high and the indicator light bulb does
not light up. Since the indicator always has current flowing through it and
the thermistor, it only lights up when the fuel level gets low and uncovers
the thermistor. This thermistor line is yellow with a black stripe on my
late 90s
Here are some other links
www.hdk.co.jp/pdf/eng/e023101.pdf
www.scully.com/cgi-bin/pdf/60635_desc.pdf
Everything mustang has the sensors for $32
www.everythingmustang.com/Merchant2/
merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=EM&Category_Code=THERME
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Caldwell
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: thermistors for low fuel warning
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Caldwell" <rickca@trib.com>
Joa;
I am interested in how you are going to design your low level waring
system? Are you looking for a temperature change? Or is their another use
for thermistors? If I can help out let me know.
Rick Caldwell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joa Harrison" <flyasuperseven@yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: thermistors for low fuel warning
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joa Harrison
<flyasuperseven@yahoo.com>
>
>
> I have the need for two thermistors for low fuel warning. The first is
for my homebuilt and needs to be 14 vdc, very affordable, and fairly robust.
The second is for a 28vdc certified design (to replace a float switch) and
must be made for certified aircraft (or the military). I need info on the
first one for my hobby (well, thats what my wife calls it, I prefer to call
it my secondary vocation) and the second one is for my day job (and what I
call my hobby!)
>
>
> What would you all suggest?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Joa
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe wire? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>Comments/Questions: Hi Bob....I have a wing off the plane right now, and
>before I re-mount it, I want to run the strobe wires through it from tip
>to root. I haven't yet bought the strobes (resistance to Whelan's
>ridiculous pricing I expect) but I intend to use Whelan heads probably
>with a Nova power supply.
>
>Can you advise the wire spec that I should run?
There are dozens of suitable wires. Problem is that most
suppliers no longer offer cut lengths to order. You have to
order a whole spool (usually 100' minimum). The wire you're
looking for is 18 or 16 AWG triple with overall shield. You
might check with local installers of audio and industrial
control systems. They may have open spools of something
suitable and would be willing to sell you the 40 feet or
so that you need.
Consider this instead. If you buy a Whelan kit, it will come
with the wire. How about running a conduit of Nyloflo or
similar tubing from root to tip now. When you get your kit
later, it will be easy to run the wires in.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder Main bus or Essential Bus |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
See chapter 17 of the 'Connection or if you don't have the
book, download
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev9/ch17-9.pdf
>I agree on the essential bus. But you could just leave it on - it will
>consume very little power. It will be ready to use, especially in an
>emergency.
Repeat after me, "We don't have "EMERGENCIES" in our airplanes,
only certified ships are designed and regulated to precipitate
EMERGENCIES".
> It only consumes non-trivial power when you need to transmit for
>a few seconds.
>Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
> 90 plus % Complete - seat kit arrived today
>
> > Essential bus - The transponder has an off switch so why sweat it.
>Bruce
> > www.glasair.org
> >
> > Which bus would you wire the Transponder to, and why?
> > Charlie Kuss
>
>
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: thermistors for low fuel warning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Interesting approach, would wonder what happens if you have a fuel injected
engine with a return line (of "hot" fuel) back into the tanks.
I'm using a optical device in my Glastar, works great and as it is LED it
needs nearly no power!!
http://www.ppavionics.com/LFL.htm
Werner
----- Original Message -----
> When the thermistor is immersed in fuel, the fuel keeps the thermistor
> cooled off, the resistance remains high and the indicator light bulb does
> not light up.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe wire? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Hibbing" <n744bh@bellsouth.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Strobe wire?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>
> >
> >Comments/Questions: Hi Bob....I have a wing off the plane right now, and
> >before I re-mount it, I want to run the strobe wires through it from tip
> >to root. I haven't yet bought the strobes (resistance to Whelan's
> >ridiculous pricing I expect) but I intend to use Whelan heads probably
> >with a Nova power supply.
> >
> >Can you advise the wire spec that I should run?
>
> There are dozens of suitable wires. Problem is that most
> suppliers no longer offer cut lengths to order. You have to
> order a whole spool (usually 100' minimum). The wire you're
> looking for is 18 or 16 AWG triple with overall shield. You
> might check with local installers of audio and industrial
> control systems. They may have open spools of something
> suitable and would be willing to sell you the 40 feet or
> so that you need.
>
Check www.strobesnmore.com . He can sell you the Nova power supply and
cable by the foot. If you're using only 2 strobe heads the XPak 604 will do
the job for you. I know a lot of folks are using the 904 but with only 2
heads that power supply (904) reduces the power output. This is not the
case with the 604. If you're using more than 2 flash tubes it's a mute
point. Just thought I'd pass it along.
Bill
Glasair SIIS-FT
Message 7
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| Subject: | thermistors for low fuel warning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
The approach works fine with fuel injected engines as proven by Toyota and
other automotive manufactures.
Basically it is a thermal dissipation problem. That is the fuel can
dissipate the heat from the slight current flow much easier than the air,
the fuel would have to be really hot to turn the light on, in which case you
will have a lot more problems, like no liquid fuel...
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner
Schneider
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: thermistors for low fuel warning
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider"
<wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Interesting approach, would wonder what happens if you have a fuel injected
engine with a return line (of "hot" fuel) back into the tanks.
I'm using a optical device in my Glastar, works great and as it is LED it
needs nearly no power!!
http://www.ppavionics.com/LFL.htm
Werner
----- Original Message -----
> When the thermistor is immersed in fuel, the fuel keeps the thermistor
> cooled off, the resistance remains high and the indicator light bulb does
> not light up.
Message 8
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| Subject: | thermistors for low fuel warning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
> I'm using a optical device in my Glastar, works great and as it is LED it
> needs nearly no power!!
>
> http://www.ppavionics.com/LFL.htm
$405 per tank ??? there has to be a less expensive way. I'd be interested in
learning more about that thermistor arrangement.
John Slade
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder Main bus or Essential Bus |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John R <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
:-)
Also, I liked your change of name from "Essential" bus to "Endurance"
bus... if something is truly essential to continued flight, it should go
on the battery bus...
-John
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> See chapter 17 of the 'Connection or if you don't have the
> book, download
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev9/ch17-9.pdf
>
>
>
>
>>I agree on the essential bus. But you could just leave it on - it will
>>consume very little power. It will be ready to use, especially in an
>>emergency.
>>
>>
>
> Repeat after me, "We don't have "EMERGENCIES" in our airplanes,
> only certified ships are designed and regulated to precipitate
> EMERGENCIES".
>
>
>
>
>> It only consumes non-trivial power when you need to transmit for
>>a few seconds.
>>Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
>> 90 plus % Complete - seat kit arrived today
>>
>>
>>
>>>Essential bus - The transponder has an off switch so why sweat it.
>>>
>>>
>>Bruce
>>
>>
>>>www.glasair.org
>>>
>>> Which bus would you wire the Transponder to, and why?
>>>Charlie Kuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> --------------------------------------------
> ( Knowing about a thing is different than )
> ( understanding it. One can know a lot )
> ( and still understand nothing. )
> ( C.F. Kettering )
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | solar battery charger |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard May <ram45@comporium.net>
I keep my plane in a T hanger that lacks electricity, I've purchased a
couple of solar cell battery chargers from Harbor freight at $10 a piece
andmounted them on the roof of my hanger. They work quite well, except
that they give out after a few months of use. I connect one to the battery
in my plane, and the other to the battery in my small tug to pull the
airplane in and out of the hanger. I just recently read that they will
discharge the battery at night or during cloudy days without a blocking
diode. Does anyone know what type of diode to use for this purpose, and do
I connect it to the positive or negative lead coming from the solar panel?
Is there any type of device I could construct to prevent over-charging of
batteries from Radio shack parts?
Message 11
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| Subject: | solar battery charger |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Subject: solar battery charger
From: Richard May (ram45@comporium.net)
>I've purchased a couple of solar cell battery chargers from Harbor freight
at $10 a piece
Make sure the cells put out a few volts more than the battery. You can put
the cells in series just like batteries.
>They work quite well, except that they give out after a few months of use.
The Solar cells give out??? They should last forever. If the batteries give
out they are probably suffering from never getting charged.
>I just recently read that they will discharge the battery at night or
during cloudy days
>without a blocking diode. Does anyone know what type of diode to use for
this purpose, and do
>I connect it to the positive or negative lead coming from the solar panel?
Use a 1N4001 to a 1N4007. Doesn't much matter. Use any "General Purpose"
silicon diode.
Attach it to the positive lead with the little silver band away from the
solar cell. You can put it indoor going into the battery positive too.
Little silver band goes towards the battery+.
>Is there any type of device I could construct to prevent over-charging of
>batteries from Radio shack parts?
Yes. First buy a copy of "Forrest Mim's Engineer's Notebook" at Radio Shack
. Then build a LM317 voltage regulator and adjust the output to whatever the
battery's fully charged voltage should be. This won't do the fastest job but
it will work well. You can forget about the diode if you take this route.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
"Kitty Hawk Centennial---first heavier-than-air flight that didn't
immediately crash"
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: solar battery charger |
10/17/2003 02:13:13 PM
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
Does anyone know what type of diode to use for this purpose, and do
I connect it to the positive or negative lead coming from the solar panel?
A schottky diode is most commonly used, they drop ~.2 volts instead of the
~.6 volts of a standard diode. As long as they are properly biased it
shouldn't matter which lead they are in.
Craig S.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder Main bus or Essential Bus |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:42 AM 10/17/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John R <jrourke@allied-computer.com>
>
>:-)
>
>Also, I liked your change of name from "Essential" bus to "Endurance"
>bus... if something is truly essential to continued flight, it should go
>on the battery bus...
>
>-John
It's certainly an advantage to reduce parts count between
an "essential" item and its power source to reduce probability
that use of that item will not be lost. However, if having
but one such "essential" device puts probability of comfortable
completion of flight at risk, then one should have a BACKUP
for it. If every item capable of ruining your day has a BACKUP,
then all of a sudden, it is NOT ESSENTIAL. It changes the way
you can look at system design and truly achieve a system that
is both essential and emergency free.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe wire? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>Check www.strobesnmore.com . He can sell you the Nova power supply and
>cable by the foot. If you're using only 2 strobe heads the XPak 604 will do
>the job for you. I know a lot of folks are using the 904 but with only 2
>heads that power supply (904) reduces the power output. This is not the
>case with the 604. If you're using more than 2 flash tubes it's a mute
>point. Just thought I'd pass it along.
>Bill
>Glasair SIIS-FT
Great data point Bill, thanks!
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 10856 Wandke |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>Comments/Questions: Wonder if I can use #4 cable to hook up a firewall
>mounted battery to a Sky Tec starter on a new )235N2C(lower
>compression). Using an Odyssey 680 battery in a Murphy Rebel.
Sure . . . #4 is quite adequate to this task when the
battery and engine are close together.
I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to
share the information with as many folks as possible.
A further benefit can be realized with membership on
the list. There are lots of technically capable folks
on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can
join at . . .
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/
Well considered and technically elegant answers to
all of your questions are waiting for you there. Also,
check out the downloadable materials at
http://www.aeroelectric.com
Thanks!
Bob . . .
|---------------------------------------------------|
| A lie can travel half way around the world while |
| the truth is till putting on its shoes . . . |
| -Mark Twain- |
|---------------------------------------------------|
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe wire? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Rather than Nyloflo - get some of the light weight 1/2" tubing used for
Mister or drip irrigation systems. One point does it need to be flame
retardant, if so it may not qualify for this application.
jerb
snip....
> Consider this instead. If you buy a Whelan kit, it will come
> with the wire. How about running a conduit of Nyloflo or
> similar tubing from root to tip now. When you get your kit
> later, it will be easy to run the wires in.
>
> ================================
Message 17
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| Subject: | thermistors for low fuel warning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:23 AM 10/17/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
>
> > I'm using a optical device in my Glastar, works great and as it is LED it
> > needs nearly no power!!
> >
> > http://www.ppavionics.com/LFL.htm
>
>$405 per tank ??? there has to be a less expensive way. I'd be interested in
>learning more about that thermistor arrangement.
Consider the Gemssenors p/n 143570 at:
http://www.gemssensors.com/SpecTemplateStandard.asp?nProductGroupID=2
which can be had for $80 each and will drive a 40 ma lamp
directly (plenty good for LED and you can find some 0.04A incandescent
lamps too).
Bob . . .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Current Limiters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com
Bob: Help!! I am building a Lancair IV and am at the wire stringing stage.
I have two 17 amp hour batteries and one 70 amp alternator. I have adopted a
version of your Z-13 for the power distribution architecture, but can't
figure out how many, where and what size current limiters I should use. Part of
the problem is I can't read the diagrams in your book as the small print is
fuzzy (and my eyes are on their sixth decade). So please tell me how to configure
my current limiters. thanks and regards, paul
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: thermistors for low fuel warning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
What did you look at, one set is 115$ or 215$ a pair.
Sure you can do it cheaper yourself, just you have to get two indicators
with push to test (doing circuit test), two optical sensors , a circuit
testing when the indicator fails etc. As you can see 4 wires are running
between indicator and sensor for this purpose. Switch on current is a bit
above 40ma, running on a bit over 20 ma for each sensor.
As you've told you can make it cheaper, I found it value worth the money.
It's up to everybody to decide by him/herself.
And no I'm not in any way involved in PPA, just a happy customer =(;o)
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: thermistors for low fuel warning
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade"
<sladerj@bellsouth.net>
>
> > I'm using a optical device in my Glastar, works great and as it is LED
it
> > needs nearly no power!!
> >
> > http://www.ppavionics.com/LFL.htm
>
> $405 per tank ??? there has to be a less expensive way. I'd be interested
in
> learning more about that thermistor arrangement.
> John Slade
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Current Limiters |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Paul,
You can get fresh copies of all of the diagrams in the appendix
by downloading the following .pdf file:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev10/z10.pdf
Regards,
Matt-
VE N34RD
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PTACKABURY@aol.com
>
> Bob: Help!! I am building a Lancair IV and am at the wire stringing
> stage. I have two 17 amp hour batteries and one 70 amp alternator. I
> have adopted a version of your Z-13 for the power distribution
> architecture, but can't figure out how many, where and what size
> current limiters I should use. Part of the problem is I can't read the
> diagrams in your book as the small print is fuzzy (and my eyes are on
> their sixth decade). So please tell me how to configure my current
> limiters. thanks and regards, paul
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | thermistors for low fuel warning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joa Harrison <flyasuperseven@yahoo.com>
Anybody ran across an auto part number for an auto fuel tank?
Joa
---------------------------------
Message 22
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| Subject: | thermistors for low fuel warning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
Most of the 90's model Toyotas have them but you will most likely have to
order the entire fuel sending unit, about $280.
On the other hand I found that everything mustang sells the thermistor
sensor for $32
www.everythingmustang.com
Everything Mustang's website is down, I found the price through goggle's
cache.
http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:GvfTUJyGVUEJ:www.everythingmustang.com/
Merchant2/merchant.mv%3FScreen%3DCTGY%26Store_Code%3DEM%26Category_Code%3DTH
ERME+low+fuel+light+thermistor&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joa
Harrison
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: thermistors for low fuel warning
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joa Harrison
<flyasuperseven@yahoo.com>
Anybody ran across an auto part number for an auto fuel tank?
Joa
---------------------------------
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Transponder Main bus or Essential Bus |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tom Brusehaver <cozytom@mn.rr.com>
Things could be better, with modern solid state transponders,
but this is something that happened to me, with an older KT-76.
During instrument training, we took off from FCM, in a Beech
Sundowner. It was marginal VFR, and at 3000MSL there was
an overcast.
We were shooting my first approach for the day, VOR 11 at
LVN, when approach called up and said they lost our transponder.
Shocked my instructor said he'd look into it. He turned it
off, then on, then pressed the CB, then fiddled and fiddled
but the response light never came on.
I went missed, called approach, and asked 'em anything
on the transponder? They said nope. Can't well fly
IFR in RADAR environment without a transponder, so
we elected to head back to FCM (about 15min).
During the trip, when the transponder was off, the
ammeter showed almost no charge, with it on, a slight
discharge. I cycled the master once, got about a 10AMP
charge for about 2 seconds, then discharge. Could be the
ammeter never really showed much of a discharge.
Com/Nav Radios continued to work, but no-go on the
transponder. We wouldn't have noticed the dead
alternator, for a while, if approach wouldn't have
told us they lost our transponder.
Leave it on the essential buss, it could be a warning
device if nothing else :-).
Charlie Kuss wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
>
> Listers,
> Which bus would you wire the Transponder to, and why?
> Charlie Kuss
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Need for relays? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
In most cases AC voltage/current rated switches normally will only carry a
fraction of their AC rated current when used for DC current
applications. The contacts are made of different material plus they use
the zero crossing of the AC current to reduce contact burning/arcing when
contacts are opened. Example a 5 Amp AC switch may only handle less than
100 mA of DC current. While some have improperly used them and gotten away
with it for the time being, you'll never know when they will fail and fail
prematurely. While AC rated switches may work fine for say for avionics
switching for radios such as mike input or (logical level) feature control
signals, any application carrying any amount of DC current more than 100
mA, use DC rated switches. They may cost a little more but lately I
noticed there is getting to be less difference between the two.
jerb
At 04:30 PM 10/15/03 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 09:32 AM 10/15/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Banus" <mbanus@hotmail.com>
> >
> >Bob,
> > Just received plans for an engine install. It shows all switches with
> > #22 wire going to relays (22 Relays). My understanding is that certain
> > heavy loads (Pitot heat etc) need a relay as the switches can't handle
> > the amps. But do I need relays for 3-10 amp circuits? More relays are
> > more components to fail. I have looked at 125v 10 and 15 amp rocker
> > switches from Digikey that look like they can handle the current.
> > Pro/cons? Thanks\
>
> Your switches will probably be just fine directly
> switching the loads. See
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Bob, external power receptacle |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski@direcway.com>
Bob,
I got a receptacle which is used commonly for connection to an external
battery if internal battery is week. I was told that the receptacle is
from a Cessna. I hoped for an easy installation but there are three
prongs there. Two big ones are described "+" (the central one), and
"-" (the side one). Unfortunately, there is a third one, smaller. No
description there, but there are two ~1A diodes connected to it, able
to conduct "from" the prong.
I would like to make the receptacle compatible with battery carts at
airports, so Cessna standard seems to be the right one. But how is the
third prong connected? Is it used to drive a relay or something?
I could not find anything on thet topic. I would appreciate your answer.
Thank you,
Jerzy
Werner Schneider wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
>
>Interesting approach, would wonder what happens if you have a fuel injected
>engine with a return line (of "hot" fuel) back into the tanks.
>
>I'm using a optical device in my Glastar, works great and as it is LED it
>needs nearly no power!!
>
>http://www.ppavionics.com/LFL.htm
>
>Werner
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
>>When the thermistor is immersed in fuel, the fuel keeps the thermistor
>>cooled off, the resistance remains high and the indicator light bulb does
>>not light up.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Need for relays? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:48 PM 10/17/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
>
>In most cases AC voltage/current rated switches normally will only carry a
>fraction of their AC rated current when used for DC current
>applications. The contacts are made of different material plus they use
>the zero crossing of the AC current to reduce contact burning/arcing when
>contacts are opened. Example a 5 Amp AC switch may only handle less than
>100 mA of DC current.
Not so. Relays are only slightly different than toggle
switches in that their contact spreading velocities are
not enhanced with over-center springs . . . but the ratio
is not so great that any 5A relay needs to be de0rated
to 100 ma. See
> While some have improperly used them and gotten away
>with it for the time being, you'll never know when they will fail and fail
>prematurely. While AC rated switches may work fine for say for avionics
>switching for radios such as mike input or (logical level) feature control
>signals, any application carrying any amount of DC current more than 100
>mA, use DC rated switches. They may cost a little more but lately I
>noticed there is getting to be less difference between the two.
. . . simply not supported by engineering data from
switch and relay manufacturers. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
for an exploration of switches . . . relays are
not terribly different.
If any one can cite manufacturer's data sheets for
any control product be it switch or relay that
suggests an AC/DC de-rating ratio this severe, I'd
like to get a copy of it. Much of what's being
circulated as valid common knowledge has roots
in the RVator article I cited in my piece on
switch ratings. The author badly mis-interpreted
the Microswitch data sheets. These seeds have
grown into forests of electro-whizzy folklore.
The question that started this thread was posted by a reader
who was pondering an airframe wiring diagram suggested by
an engine supplier wherein the panel was sprinkled with
something on the order of 20 switches all driving relays
used to actually control loads.
There is simply no justification for doing this. It drives
parts count up, cost up, reliability down, and offers
little if any useful improvement in performance. This
system was crafted with little or no practical
knowledge of designing for the elegant solution.
So far, I've only seen photos of installed equipment.
I'm waiting to see the remainder of the documentation
before we attempt to comb the rats and tangles out
of this badly over-built system.
Bob . . .
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Need for relays? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 06:48 PM 10/17/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
>
>In most cases AC voltage/current rated switches normally will only carry a
>fraction of their AC rated current when used for DC current
>applications.
I've been turning my electric fuel pump on and off with a micro toggle
switch rated for AC with no explosions yet. Any day now tho, eh?
>The contacts are made of different material plus they use
>the zero crossing of the AC current to reduce contact burning/arcing
My wife has so much trouble catching that brief little zero crossing that
she just leaves lights on all over the house.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
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