Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:20 AM - New member ... (Michel RIAZUELO)
2. 07:06 AM - Re: Re: Microair 706 and Audio Iso Amp <5.0.0.25.2.20031023191756.01a06c60@pop.central.cox.net> (jimderrick)
3. 11:28 AM - gpsmap 196 download data (Werner Schneider)
4. 11:49 AM - Re: gpsmap 196 download data (Bruce Gray)
5. 12:09 PM - Re: New member ... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 01:12 PM - Fw: gpsmap 196 download data (Michel RIAZUELO)
7. 01:27 PM - Re: human factors resource (Alex Peterson)
8. 01:28 PM - Re: New member ... (Bruce Gray)
9. 01:46 PM - Re: gpsmap 196 download data (Kurt A. Schumacher)
10. 02:34 PM - Re: New member ... (Robinson, Chad)
11. 03:38 PM - DIY sexy flap switch . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 03:47 PM - Nav/Loc/GS and Comm Antenna internally mounted (FSmith9890@aol.com)
13. 04:07 PM - Re: New member ... (Bruce Gray)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michel RIAZUELO" <mt.riazuelo@wanadoo.fr>
Hi all,
I build a two-seats aircraft in composite (carbon epoxy). It is a MCR 01 SPORTSTER
known in US under the name of LAFAYETTE. It is powered with a ROTAX 912 and
gently cruise at 140 Kts.
I discovered Aeroelectric web site thanks to (excellent!) friend of mine. I do
not put myself any more a question, I have the answers!!!!! It is a true gold
mine.
Recently of weeks I was registered with the list aeroelectric-list@matronics.com.
I am very impressed by the sendings and the quality of Bob'answers (A tout
seigneur, tout honneur !).
However, I would like to have your opinion on the following choice.
I am preparing the wiring of the flaprons. There are two end of travel microswitches
(max UP and max DOWN).
Do these microswitches have to be in the power circuit (10 A max) or in the control
circuit (0.2 A max) ?
I know that it is easier to commutate 0.2 A than 10. But, what does occur, if for
an unknown reason, the relay is blocked in closed position?
Thank you for your answers.
Michel RIAZUELO
MCR SPORTSTER in progress ....
Cholet FRANCE
Message 2
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "jimderrick" <jimderrick@comcast.net>
New Jersey may have alot of silly rules, most of which I do not ageee with,
but we pay 10 - 15 cents less per gallon of gas than Del or Pa and we can
stay warm inside the car while the attendants pump your gas on those cold
winter days. just my 2 cents. Do Not Acrhive ----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Microair 706 and Audio Iso Amp
<5.0.0.25.2.20031023191756.01a06c60@pop.central.cox.net>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
<retasker@optonline.net>
>
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> > There was a time that it was illegal for anyone but the
> > operator of a filling station to pump gasoline. Now, the only
> > state I know where that's true is Oregon . . . the Gasoline
> > Pumper's Union needed to protect jobs. Ever so slowly, folk
> >
>
> New Jersey is the same - no gasoline dispensing except by the station
> attendants.
>
> I didn't realize there was another state with the same silly rules!
>
> Dick Tasker, RV9A, 90573
> Fuselage
>
> Do not Archive...
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | gpsmap 196 download data |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Hello all,
I know, it's not exactly the right forum, but the one where a chance exist
to get an answer.
I have the GPSMAP 196 from Garmin and can see, that my flights are saved
(see the traces of my tracks on the screen). Now I've tried several things
to download the data, I failed to get more then only tha data for the
logbook..
Does anybody know a way/software to get this done?
Many thanks
Werner
Do not archive!
Message 4
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| Subject: | gpsmap 196 download data |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
Jeppesen Flightstar will do it.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Werner Schneider
Subject: AeroElectric-List: gpsmap 196 download data
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider"
<wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Hello all,
I know, it's not exactly the right forum, but the one where a chance
exist
to get an answer.
I have the GPSMAP 196 from Garmin and can see, that my flights are saved
(see the traces of my tracks on the screen). Now I've tried several
things
to download the data, I failed to get more then only tha data for the
logbook..
Does anybody know a way/software to get this done?
Many thanks
Werner
Do not archive!
==
==
==
==
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: New member ... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>I am preparing the wiring of the flaprons. There are two end of travel
>microswitches (max UP and max DOWN).
>Do these microswitches have to be in the power circuit (10 A max) or in
>the control circuit (0.2 A max) ?
>I know that it is easier to commutate 0.2 A than 10. But, what does occur,
>if for an unknown reason, the relay is blocked in closed position?
This is a classic example of a need to do Failure Mode Effects Analysis
(FMEA). What happens if your flaps become inoperative at any particular
position. Is there a flight condition that becomes hazardous of you find
that you cannot move flaps? What is the consequence of limit switch
failure?
Does the flap motor and gear reduction system have the capability to bend
airplane parts if the flap jams or fails to stop at extend or retract
limits?
If the answers to these questions raise no concerns, then
component selection and architecture for wiring
them up become non-critical issues.
It's uncommon for a reasonably sized relay to stick
closed carrying flap motor current. Cessna runs flap motor
current through microswitches on some the older airplanes
with good results. You want a switch that is rated for power
service (15A contacts) but these are readily available from
a variety of sources. So you can pretty much configure as
you see fit. Here's a drawing where relays control motor
power and limit switches control relays.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/flaps.pdf
On the other hand, if your airplane has any risk of becoming
an unmanageable beast because of inability to operate the
flaps, a more cautious approach to flap controls and backups
is in order. I suspect this is not the case. The only airplane
I've ever flown that had this characteristic was early
C-150's with 40 degrees of flap capability. On a hot day,
once you had full flaps and less than 100' of altitude,
you were committed to put wheels on the ground. I think
there was an AD to limit flap travel to 30 degrees so that
the airplane could at least maintain altitude at full
flaps and throttle.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | gpsmap 196 download data |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michel RIAZUELO" <mt.riazuelo@wanadoo.fr>
Bonjour =E0 tous,
Ci dessous, je vous transmets un message d'un camarade qui s'est un peu =E9gar=E9
sur la liste aeroelectric-list@matronics.com consacr=E9e au c=E2blage =E9lectrique
des avions, principalement des avions de construction amateur (oui, =E7a
peut exister !).
Sa question est typique de celle de notre liste gps-gnss.
Ca serait pas mal de pouvoir fournir une r=E9ponse.
Bien cordialement,
Michel RIAZUELO
----- Original Message -----
From: Werner Schneider
Subject: AeroElectric-List: gpsmap 196 download data
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Hello all,
I know, it's not exactly the right forum, but the one where a chance exist
to get an answer.
I have the GPSMAP 196 from Garmin and can see, that my flights are saved
(see the traces of my tracks on the screen). Now I've tried several things
to download the data, I failed to get more then only tha data for the
logbook..
Does anybody know a way/software to get this done?
Many thanks
Werner
Do not archive!
Message 7
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| Subject: | human factors resource |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
> >www.generalaviation.org/download/GAMA10DF.doc
>
> Nice find sir! Thanks for turning us onto it. It was interesting
> to note how little the document has to say about electrical system
> ergonomics . . . less than 1 page out of 92.
>
> Bob . . .
I cruised through the document referenced above, and kind of got bored.
There is a lot of fine tuning discussed in that document. I believe,
however, that we often miss the very basic things. Please don't anyone
take offense, but I really, really don't like long rows of switches.
Please consider grouping switches as to function. For example, I put all
four switches that relate to lighting together on the right side of the
panel (strobes, nav, panel, landing). Well above these switches are the
autopilot and trim disconnect switches. In the middle of the panel, I
have defrost and pitot heat (also alternate air). On the far left are
the three switches that relate to power distribution. Boost pump is
right by the mixture control, flaps right by the throttle. These are
located to help with the flow of checklists and procedures.
It is a good idea to think through startup, taxi, preflight etc.
procedures before designing the panel layout. For example, if one takes
off with flaps, they need to be raised almost immediately after takeoff
in an RV, for example. Your hand will be on the throttle at that point,
so put the flaps near there.
I think it is an important and interesting topic...
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 395 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
See www.motionsystems.com for actuators that freewheel at both extremes
of their travel. They're used on the Glasair's for flap and electric
trim actuators.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New member ...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>I am preparing the wiring of the flaprons. There are two end of travel
>microswitches (max UP and max DOWN).
>Do these microswitches have to be in the power circuit (10 A max) or in
>the control circuit (0.2 A max) ?
>I know that it is easier to commutate 0.2 A than 10. But, what does
occur,
>if for an unknown reason, the relay is blocked in closed position?
This is a classic example of a need to do Failure Mode Effects
Analysis
(FMEA). What happens if your flaps become inoperative at any
particular
position. Is there a flight condition that becomes hazardous of you
find
that you cannot move flaps? What is the consequence of limit switch
failure?
Does the flap motor and gear reduction system have the capability to
bend
airplane parts if the flap jams or fails to stop at extend or
retract
limits?
If the answers to these questions raise no concerns, then
component selection and architecture for wiring
them up become non-critical issues.
It's uncommon for a reasonably sized relay to stick
closed carrying flap motor current. Cessna runs flap motor
current through microswitches on some the older airplanes
with good results. You want a switch that is rated for power
service (15A contacts) but these are readily available from
a variety of sources. So you can pretty much configure as
you see fit. Here's a drawing where relays control motor
power and limit switches control relays.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/flaps.pdf
On the other hand, if your airplane has any risk of becoming
an unmanageable beast because of inability to operate the
flaps, a more cautious approach to flap controls and backups
is in order. I suspect this is not the case. The only airplane
I've ever flown that had this characteristic was early
C-150's with 40 degrees of flap capability. On a hot day,
once you had full flaps and less than 100' of altitude,
you were committed to put wheels on the ground. I think
there was an AD to limit flap travel to 30 degrees so that
the airplane could at least maintain altitude at full
flaps and throttle.
Bob . . .
==
==
==
==
Message 9
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| Subject: | gpsmap 196 download data |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kurt A. Schumacher" <Kurt.Schumacher@schumi.ch>
Werner,
A good point to start is the GPS Utility (http://www.gpsu.co.uk/ - Freeware)
or the GPS TrackMaker (http://www.gpstm.com/). When you have reliable
altitude data (always fun in Switzerland), check out the DG Terrain Viewer
(http://www.geocities.com/drgportugal/dgtv/ - Freeware).
-Kurt.
PS- Don't forget to keep track on the differences between your tail dragger
and the tri-gear
http://www.experimental.ch/News/images/HB-YKP/HB-YKP-convertible.gif ;-)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Werner
Schneider
Subject: AeroElectric-List: gpsmap 196 download data
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider"
--> <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Hello all,
I know, it's not exactly the right forum, but the one where a chance exist
to get an answer.
I have the GPSMAP 196 from Garmin and can see, that my flights are saved
(see the traces of my tracks on the screen). Now I've tried several things
to download the data, I failed to get more then only tha data for the
logbook..
Does anybody know a way/software to get this done?
Many thanks
Werner
Do not archive!
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robinson, Chad" <crobinson@rfgonline.com>
Bruce Gray wrote:
> See www.motionsystems.com for actuators that freewheel at both extremes
> of their travel. They're used on the Glasair's for flap and electric
> trim actuators.
Bruce, can you supply a cost for these units? Also, do they "lock" - that is, once
they are turned off, do they prevent travel in either direction? (I expect
since they're worm-gear driven this is a yes.) Finally, how do the Glasairs hook
these up to allow mechanical override by the pilot? Are they used on a spring
system or similar?
Regards,
Chad
Message 11
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| Subject: | DIY sexy flap switch . . . |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>Comments/Questions: Bob,
>This is an oddball request, but maybe you can help. I'm building an RV-6A
>with electric flaps, and I'd like to put on my panel a flap switch that
>uses a bat handle shaped like a flap. I can't find any info about this
>from Matronics or Google searches. I have also e-mailed RAC via the
>website but have not yet received an answer.
>
>Do you know who makes either the whole switch or just the bat handle
>adapter for this?
>
>Thanks for your time and help.
You don't even WANT to know what this switch costs for a Bonanza.
How about building one?
You start with a toggle switch that operates on a pinned shaft
as opposed to ball-n-socket pivot. Microswitch products are one
example of this kind of switch. Next, carve a flap shape out of
a piece of aluminum. If I were going to make a lot, I'd have the
things NC machined. If I needed one, less than 30 minutes or
so with a band-saw, belt sander and little chunk of 5/8" alum
sheet would get the job done too. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/FlapSwitch/FlapSw1.jpg
Sand a flat on the last 1/2" or so of the bat-handle on a
toggle. Drill handle for snug fit on toggle of switch. .240"
is typical. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/FlapSwitch/FlapSw2.jpg
Drill and tap handle for 6-32 set screws, one each side
and attach to switch after it's mounted in panel. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/FlapSwitch/FlapSw3.jpg
From the time I read your note to the time I began to take
these pictures was about 20 minutes. Yeah, I cheated and
used Delrin . . . didn't have a suitable piece of aluminum
stock. So it might take 30 minutes with aluminum. Keep bowl
of water and ice cubes handy to dip workpiece for cooling
during sculpting phase on the belt sander.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | Nav/Loc/GS and Comm Antenna internally mounted |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FSmith9890@aol.com
Wingtip antennas for both Nav and Loc and GS work very well in two RV-4 I've
had. I used the standard comm whip in each wingtip. It is easy to mount and
connect than the copper foil, and you can take off the wingtip fairing if
necessary without worry about the connections. In one RV-4 I used one antenna
for
com. Works ok but not great range, and the other with a splitter for the GS/
Nav. In the present one one whip is used for the GS, and the other for the
Nav/LOc. The only external antennas are the transponder, and the comm. I
think these are better fully external. The comm is a loaded whip only 13inches
long and is on the bottom of the airplane. FWIW Frank
Message 13
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
I don't know cost, under $200 if I remember correctly. You can buy
directly from the factory. Don't tell them it's for an aircraft. They're
one of those strange companies that will refuse to sell if they know
it's bound for an airplane.
I'll send you a pdf of the trim system directly.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robinson, Chad
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: New member ...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robinson, Chad"
<crobinson@rfgonline.com>
Bruce Gray wrote:
> See www.motionsystems.com for actuators that freewheel at both
extremes
> of their travel. They're used on the Glasair's for flap and electric
> trim actuators.
Bruce, can you supply a cost for these units? Also, do they "lock" -
that is, once they are turned off, do they prevent travel in either
direction? (I expect since they're worm-gear driven this is a yes.)
Finally, how do the Glasairs hook these up to allow mechanical override
by the pilot? Are they used on a spring system or similar?
Regards,
Chad
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