Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:19 AM - Auxiliary battery ... (Michel RIAZUELO)
2. 03:15 AM - Re: Auxiliary battery ... (Gilles.Thesee)
3. 05:58 AM - Re: CAD Programs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:06 AM - We're BAAAaaaack! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:41 AM - Cad Programs and old computers. (Eric M. Jones)
6. 06:54 AM - Re: fuse panel orientation (Richard Dudley)
7. 07:56 AM - Re: Auxiliary battery ... (Eric Ruttan)
8. 08:16 AM - Re: fuses vs. CBs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 08:19 AM - Re: Circuit breakers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 08:39 AM - Aux battery...... (Eric M. Jones)
11. 09:27 AM - Re: Re: fuses vs. CBs (Robinson, Chad)
12. 09:33 AM - Re: Aux battery...... (Gilles.Thesee)
13. 12:52 PM - Re: Aeroflash strobe (Chris Good)
14. 03:04 PM - Re: Auxiliary battery ... (Michel RIAZUELO)
15. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: fuses vs. CBs (Carlos Sa)
16. 03:55 PM - Dual alternators operating at the same time (Scott Diffenbaugh)
17. 04:55 PM - Re: Dual alternators operating at the same (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 05:32 PM - Current Limiter Confusion (James Redmon)
19. 07:39 PM - Re: Re: fuses vs. CBs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 08:16 PM - Re: Auxiliary battery ... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 08:18 PM - Re: Aux battery...... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 08:42 PM - Re: Current Limiter Confusion (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 08:45 PM - Re: Remember when we used batteries? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 08:50 PM - Crimping Tool (Kingsley Hurst)
25. 09:06 PM - Fuseholders & Crimping Tool (David Swartzendruber)
26. 10:17 PM - ACS switch wiring with Rotax 912S (Joa Harrison)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Auxiliary battery ... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michel RIAZUELO" <mt.riazuelo@wanadoo.fr>
Hi all,
I prepare the wiring of my MCR SPORTSTER (ROTAX 912) according to Z16 (obviously
!). But, faithful to principle "SMALL IS BEAUTIFULL", total electric consumption
is low and the advantage of an essential bus according to Bob' spirit is
weak. All is essential ! The large-scale consumers are the flaps (10 A) and the
pitch trim (5 A). Normally, if the alternator has a problem, I would have more
autonomy of battery (8 AH) that of gasoline in the tank and might land without
flaps.
The essential instruments, but not vital, the MED 80 (http://www.bwavio.com/manuali/man_med_80_usa.pdf ), altimeter TASKEM 2000 ( http://www.taskemcorp.com/pdfnew/2000_Flyer.pdf ) and the VHF in reception mode, drain less than 1 A in all. I would like to find a solution in the event of total failure of the battery. I think of a small completely independent auxiliary battery (charger at home), which could supply (with a switch) a pseudo Essential Bus supplying these three instruments. Which type of portable battery would be the best adapted to provide 800 to 900 mA during approximately 2 hours (270 Nm). Could the propulsion batteries of small-scale models (planes or boats) they be appropriate?
I am interested by your opinions and experiences.
Thank you in advance.
Michel RIAZUELO
MCR SPORTSTER in progress
Cholet FRANCE
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Auxiliary battery ... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Salut Michel,
As an MCR builder I feel compelled to jump in.
>
> I prepare the wiring of my MCR SPORTSTER (ROTAX 912) according to Z16
(obviously !). But, faithful to principle "SMALL IS BEAUTIFULL", total
electric consumption is low and the advantage of an essential bus according
to Bob' spirit is weak. All is essential ! The large-scale consumers are the
flaps (10 A) and the pitch trim (5 A). Normally, if the alternator has a
problem, I would have more autonomy of battery (8 AH) that of gasoline in
the tank and might land without flaps.
>
> The essential instruments, but not vital, the MED 80
(http://www.bwavio.com/manuali/man_med_80_usa.pdf ), altimeter TASKEM 2000
( http://www.taskemcorp.com/pdfnew/2000_Flyer.pdf ) and the VHF in reception
mode, drain less than 1 A in all. I would like to find a solution in the
event of total failure of the battery. I think of a small completely
independent auxiliary battery (charger at home)
Why charge at home, when your onboard alternator can do it automatically ?
When you'll be away from base, you won't be able to charge the small backup
battery and you'll gradually loose the ability to use it. Except if you take
a small charger in your flight bag. Then were's the advantage of not
connecting it to the ship's alternator ?
An Auxilliary Battery Management Module is a really small critter, far
lighter than the transformer/charger you'll take in your bag.
> which could supply (with a switch) a pseudo Essential Bus supplying these
three instruments.
From the pilot's side, this setup will be as complicated as with an actual
e-bus : switch, etc...
> Which type of portable battery would be the best adapted to provide 800 to
900 mA during approximately 2 hours (270 Nm).
My understanding is you should not rely on more than 50% backup capacity, to
allow for battery performance decay and less than optimal charge condition.
> Could the propulsion batteries of small-scale models (planes or boats)
they be appropriate?
Certainly, except you won't be able to use it to assist engine cranking.
Just my two cents.
Cheers,
Gilles
MCR 4S with ABMM
Ship's wiring 95 % complete and smoke tested.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: CAD Programs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:47 PM 11/10/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net>
>
>Bob,
>I got this from Sam Hoskins. He was trying to answer a question for me and
>contacted you
>Here is your reply.
>
>How about this. An ol' junker of a Dos machine with
> Win3.11 will run Intellicad or AutoCADLTv1.0 and probably
> a number of other freebe AutoCAD compatible programs.
> You can probably put together a Dos system complete with
> software cheaper than you can buy software that will
> run on the Mac . . . Boeing surplus here in Wichita
> is selling 133 Mhz CPU's with Win95 on them for $60.
> These would make an excellent CAD machine for doing your
> drawings. Check around for used/surplus computer stores
> or on Ebay . . . you can do this dirt cheap.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>My question to you is, where can I find the software mentioned above?
>I have an old lap top running Windows 3.1. All I need is the program to run
>on it.
Sam is right. Computers with 100X the capability of my first
$2,000 (used) machine are selling at scrap-iron prices. There's
a new store open in Wichita called Computer Surplus. They buy up
industrial castoffs, refurbish the moving parts (drives) as
needed and offer a perfectly good working DOS/Windows machine
with a warranty for a tiny small fraction of the cost of a new
one.
If you purchase or download my CD offer
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html
or
http://www.aeroelectric.com/CD
there are three cad programs on the CD that will open/edit/
print all the drawings on the website which by the way are also
on the CD.
My personal favorite will be the AutoCADLT1.0 which you need
to resurrect as 4 pristine install floppies by running the
program makeset.bat and putting clean floppies into your
computer as directed. Then use the floppies to install
the cad program.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | We're BAAAaaaack! |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Got in late last night from the Watsonville seminar trip.
Had a great crowd. Usually we have to boogie out at noon
on Sunday to catch flights home. This time, Sunday was
all booked so we laid over a day and went home Monday.
Got to spend three extra hours with the folks and still
had time to go down on the beach and chase seagulls and
be chased by some really spectacular waves.
Also read a good book on the trip. Basic Economics
by Thomas Sowell. You can get it off Amazon used pretty
cheap. No mathematics, just sold discussion of simple-ideas
and cause-effect in the study of scarce resources that have
alternative uses. I acquired several new tools from this
book that will be useful in my work at RAC. This should
be a required course in highschool. I recommend it.
Got several meetings today so won't be able to start on
the pile incoming List traffic until this evening.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Cad Programs and old computers. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
DO NOT ARCHIVE
As for CAD, check .... http://www.freecad.com/
Computers--If you could buy wool/silk blend Armani suits with a vest and two
pairs of slacks for a $100. And you replied that YOU could get a polyester
knock-off "Bob's Suits" for $12.50 at Boeing surplus (but it might need some
tailoring)........Which would you think is the best course of action?
Computers are like that too. Buy good reasonably-contemporary stuff. You CAN
buy the old stuff surplus if you know A LOT ABOUT COMPUTERS, and know
exactly what you need to do.
(MINIMUM EQUIPMENT CHECKLIST)--today for a general purpose computer
1) Processor speed--At least a few hundred Megahertz....better still, one
Gigahertz or more.
2) Disks--3 1/2" and CD (you can almost delete the 3 1/2"...better to get a
CDR/RW)
3) Memory--128 Megs (get more if you possibly can)
4) Connections--USB ports and 10/100 ethernet. Get a cable modem. You could
survive on a V.90 modem, buy just survive.
5) Monitor-- the ones with picture tubes are tremendous bargains now.
6) Keyboard and mouse (I love old IBM-AT keyboards...Get an optical mouse)
7) Harddrive--10 gigabytes.
8) Learn to live with A-size paper and get an HP Deskjet (My old workhorse
is an HP 820Cse). Forget ink-plotters for general uses.
9) Use any old Win98 operating system. Cheap or free and reasonably solid.
Look what $299 (delivered) gets you in a new computer (www.half.com)
AMD Duron XP1800+ cpu ECS K7SEM-3 Motherboard
256mb PC133 SDRAM memory 40GB Hard Drive
56X CD ROM drive + 3.5" Floppy Drive
128-bit 3D AGP4X Graphics
Intel AC97 DirectSound w/Yamaha SW Synthesizer Multimedia Speaker Set 200W
10/100 Ethernet Networking
Mid Tower ATX Case w/300 WATT Power Supply
Internet Mouse w/Scroll, Keyboard
Ebay is filled with deals. Wal-Mart and Staples are filled with deals...have
at it.
Eric
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: fuse panel orientation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
Alex,
I have put my fuse panel under the panel on the right side of my -6A. It
is hinged to the flange at the bottom of the panel.(I have an oversised
panel.) I've used 2 camlocs at the rear corners to secure it in the
retracted position. The fuses face downward. Thought I don't expect any
problem with interaction with the legs of the right seat person, I'll
put a cover on it, if necessary.
With the number of fuses needed, I could see no other convenient place
to locate the fuse panels.
Following the Aeroelectric rationales, I don't plan on changing fuses in
flight. So, the panel can be retracted except during maintenance. I'll
send you a photo directly since photos are filtered out by the server.
I have done functional testing but have not flown yet.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
-6A finishing details
Alex Balic wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alex Balic <alex157@direcway.com>
>
> I am thinking of placing my blade type fuse panels on a hinged board that
> would drop down from under the instrument panel for access- this means that
> when it is in the usual stowed position, the fuses will be facing down- I
> know that they fit in the holders firmly, and it would be unlikely that the
> vibration and force of gravity would cause any of them to fall out- but I
> wanted some input from anyone else that has mounted this way or has tested
> this configuration......
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Auxiliary battery ... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Ruttan" <ericruttan@chartermi.net>
Whats wrong with using plain old D cells? Shelf life of 5 years and about 5
buck to replace. There is no more power/pound in a battery.
> The essential instruments, but not vital, the MED 80
(http://www.bwavio.com/manuali/man_med_80_usa.pdf ), altimeter TASKEM 2000
( http://www.taskemcorp.com/pdfnew/2000_Flyer.pdf ) and the VHF in reception
mode, drain less than 1 A in all. I would like to find a solution in the
event of total failure of the battery. I think of a small completely
independent auxiliary battery (charger at home), which could supply (with a
switch) a pseudo Essential Bus supplying these three instruments. Which type
of portable battery would be the best adapted to provide 800 to 900 mA
during approximately 2 hours (270 Nm). Could the propulsion batteries of
small-scale models (planes or boats) they be appropriate?
>
---
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: fuses vs. CBs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:51 AM 11/8/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>I am building the electrical system for my RV-6A following your advice and
>using fuseblocks. It occurs to me, though, adding to the fuse vs. circuit
>breaker debate, that it is easier to preflight circuit breakers than fuses.
>If, for example, I have a CB protecting my pitot heat circuit, it is pretty
>obvious if the CB is tripped, but I will have to examine much more closely
>the fuse for signs that it has blown. For all of those circuits whose
>operation is not obvious during preflight or on the ground, do I look for an
>increased current draw after switching on every individual circuit?
>
>I apologize if this subject has been covered previously, but I could not
>find any references in either your publication or the AearoElectric
>listserve.
There is nothing worth pre-flighting by inspection on either
a circuit breaker panel or fuse panel. For every failure mode
that will open a fuse or breaker and disable the system, there
are 10x to 1000x failure modes that will disable the system
and NOT open the fuse or breaker. The ONLY way to pre-flight any
electrically powered system is to OPERATE it and observe appropriate
behavior. In this case, it matters not whether you use fuses
or breakers and whether or not they are visible during preflight.
The classic checklist item "BREAKERS . . . check IN" is a waste
of time in that information gleaned from the activity is not
all inclusive. It's sorta like having a checklist item
that says, "WINGS . . . check ATTACHED"
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Circuit breakers |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:00 PM 11/7/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Schaefer"
><dschaefer1@kc.rr.com>
>
>The only problem I found was that they are only available in 10,20,30
>and 40 amp from BUSSMAN. Not the 1.5, 2, 5, 7 I needed for the panel
>etc.
>
>Regards,
>David
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glen
>Matejcek
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Circuit breakers
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek"
><aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>
>Howdy-
>
>While comparison shopping on the web I discovered that one can get CB's
>that will work in ATC / automotive style fuse blocks. Does anyone have
>any insights as to the reliability / quality / applicability of these
>devices to our homebuilts?
Why would you want to use a part that is more expensive, higher parts
count and adds no level of protection greater than the simple fuse?
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Aux battery...... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>The large-scale consumers are the flaps (10 A) and the pitch trim (5 A)
Does anyone else find this excessive? These just seem like HUGE currents for
motors in little airplanes.
My Makita 14.4V Drill/Driver uses 5A while driving a big screw through a
board. Why would a pitch trim need this much current? My MAC8 pitch trim is
150mA!
10A for flaps is within the reasonable range, but 5A would do the job easily
if you aren't looking for high speed flap extension.
Eric
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: fuses vs. CBs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robinson, Chad" <crobinson@rfgonline.com>
Hello all, Bob,
I know the circuit for wiring up an LED indicator for a fuse, but I seem
to recall seeing a photo of a commercially made fuse block with
indicators already installed next to each slot. Can anybody tell me
where I might obtain one? I can make my own, but it just seems silly
that I would have to for such a theoretically simple and useful item,
and I'd prefer something rugged and pre-molded, such as in
thermoplastic.
Please, no references to those fuses with LEDs built in. They're a neat
idea, but THAT I would just do myself and it seems silly to have the LED
be part of the disposable package. (I'm a Yankee, what can I say?)
Hey, Bob, I don't know if you still have influence over B&C's product
line but this would be a great product for them to carry.
Regards,
Chad
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Aux battery...... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
Envoy : mardi 11 novembre 2003 17:43
Objet : AeroElectric-List: Aux battery......
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
<emjones@charter.net>
>
> >The large-scale consumers are the flaps (10 A) and the pitch trim (5 A)
>
> Does anyone else find this excessive? These just seem like HUGE currents
for
> motors in little airplanes.
>
> My Makita 14.4V Drill/Driver uses 5A while driving a big screw through a
> board. Why would a pitch trim need this much current? My MAC8 pitch trim
is
> 150mA!
>
> 10A for flaps is within the reasonable range, but 5A would do the job
easily
> if you aren't looking for high speed flap extension.
>
> Eric
Contrary to the aerodynamics of the airframe, the electrics on the MCRs are,
to say the least, sub optimal.
The pitch trim and flaps use the same type of 35 watt Bosch motor, with an
acme drive that uses LOTS of amp, makes much noise, and is not that fast
acting.
Did you know the MCR four seater flaps use FOUR (4) such motors and we had
to resort to a 15 A fuse, while the factory standard breaker is 25 A ?
If I was to start again I'd use a MAC serrvo for pitch trim, and a ball
screw actuator for the flaps.
Regards,
Gilles
MCR 4S wiring 96 % complete and smoke tested
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Aeroflash strobe |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Good" <chrisjgood@lycos.com>
Dave,
I had an Aeroflash power supply failure earlier this year. Confirmed it by swapping
the strobe heads, & also by checking the output voltages per their faq:
http://www.aeroflash.com/faq.html
In my case pin 3 was at 12v instead of 150-175v.
You could also look at their trouble-shooting guide:
http://www.aeroflash.com/aftsproc.pdf
Aeroflash repaired & returned the bad p/s in less than a week - sorry I don't recall
the cost.
Regards,
Chris Good
West Bend, WI
RV-6A
--------- Original Message ---------
DATE: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:08:21
From: Dabusmith@aol.com
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
>
>List
>Is there a way to trouble shoot my Aero flash strobe? I replaced the flash
>tube and it worked for a day. I swapped flash tubes and they both work on the
>other side. I will have to open the wing or install access panels to get to the
>power supply. I just want to make sure there isn't something I should check
>before opening the wing.
>Thanks
>Dave Smith
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;6413623;3807821;f?http://mocda1.com/1/c/563632/113422/313631/313631
AOL users go here: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;6413623;3807821;f?http://mocda1.com/1/c/563632/113422/313631/313631
This offer applies to U.S. Residents Only
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Auxiliary battery ... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michel RIAZUELO" <mt.riazuelo@wanadoo.fr>
Eric (both), Gilles and all others,
>>AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michel RIAZUELO" <mt.riazuelo@wanadoo.fr>
>>Which type of portable battery would be the best adapted to provide 800 to 900
mA during >>approximately 2 hours (270 Nm). Could the propulsion batteries of
small-scale models (planes >>or boats) they be appropriate?
>AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Ruttan" <ericruttan@chartermi.net>
>Whats wrong with using plain old D cells? Shelf life of 5 years and about 5
>buck to replace. There is no more power/pound in a battery.
I do not know which is the general opinion, but the idea of Eric (Ruttan) is well
appropriate to me. I wish that the auxiliary battery is independent of the
electric system of the plane and on this point of view his solution is perfect.
The idea of a refillable system is the result of a lack of reflexion, because
the recourse to the auxiliary battery must be exceptional. The cost of 8 or
9 D cells is not significant compared to other cost (only for those which really
count!)
Gilles tries to involve me towards an architecture with two batteries (Z14 or Z30
I presume !). I was told that with the ROTAX 914 it is mandatory (!), but with
the 912, without battery, the life is still beautiful!
One finds D cells everywhere and in fact, to be able to surmount an electric breakdown
anywhere, it would be necessary that I install a ground power jack to
ensure the engine cranking and come back home!
Few words about the consumption of the flaps engine. I chose MCR SPORTSTER for
his brilliant aerodynamic design. I did not know that the electric design was
not same level as well as Gilles said. But I prefer that that the reverse! The
next winter I would have all the time to take again this part from zero.
Two things should be known:
=B7 The VFE is 92 Kts
=B7 Full span flaperons are moved via a mechanical mixer (endless screws
and belts notched) which consumes energy.
Regards,
Michel RIAZUELO
MCR SPORTSTER in progress
Cholet FRANCE
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: fuses vs. CBs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
I found it in JC Whitney:
http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10101&storeId=10101&langId=-1&productId=202466&mediaCode=ZX&appId=500939
If the link above doesn't get you there, go to JC Whitney site and search for smart
glow fuse, or
just fuse.
Carlos
> I know the circuit for wiring up an LED indicator for a fuse, but I seem
> to recall seeing a photo of a commercially made fuse block with
> indicators already installed next to each slot. Can anybody tell me
> where I might obtain one?
Message 16
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| Subject: | Dual alternators operating at the same time |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Diffenbaugh" <diff@foothill.net>
Would it be of benefit and is it practical to have both of Z-13's
alternators producing current at the same time as in the Cirrus SR-20
design? (Alt 1 @75A produces 60% & Alt 2 @40A produces 40% per their online
manual @
http://www.cirrusdesign.com/downloads/pdf/poh/SR20%20POH%20Supplements/11934
-S10%20Dual%20Alt.pdf .)
This way you would be monitoring both alternators at all times & if either
one fails, you would immediately go to "Plan B". I guess I wonder what the
probability is that when you need the backup it doesn't work?
Scott Diffenbaugh
diff@foothill.net
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Dual alternators operating at the same |
time
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
time
At 03:53 PM 11/11/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Diffenbaugh"
><diff@foothill.net>
>
>Would it be of benefit and is it practical to have both of Z-13's
>alternators producing current at the same time as in the Cirrus SR-20
>design? (Alt 1 @75A produces 60% & Alt 2 @40A produces 40% per their online
>manual @
>http://www.cirrusdesign.com/downloads/pdf/poh/SR20%20POH%20Supplements/11934
>-S10%20Dual%20Alt.pdf .)
>This way you would be monitoring both alternators at all times & if either
>one fails, you would immediately go to "Plan B". I guess I wonder what the
>probability is that when you need the backup it doesn't work?
Cirrus did not think though their architecture decisions
before carving them into regulatory stone. There is no
demonstrable value in "monitoring" both alternators. Likelihood
of loosing ONE modern alternator in any given tank full of
fuel is low, likelihood of loosing TWO alternators is the
inverse square of loosing one.
Running two alternators to the same bus with any notions of
having them share loads unnecessarily complicates the regulation
task which only increases likelihood of regulator failure just
to achieve a level of performance that has no demonstrable
benefit. If you really want to watch both alternators, put them
on separate busses and batteries as shown in Z-14.
Bob . . .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Current Limiter Confusion |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" <james@berkut13.com>
I received no responses from this...so, I'm posting again.....
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon"
<james@berkut13.com>
>
> I am building a Berkut (a canard pusher) and have both a B&C primary
> 60-amp and backup 20-amp alternators. I am using the two alt, one battery
> Z-12 design exactly as stated.
>
> I recently ordered two alternator fuse (current limiter) assembles - 1
> 60-amp and one 40-amp from B&C (they don't sell a 20amp version). I just
> read the update that mentioned that the minimum fuse for the 60amp
> alternator should be 80-amp rated, and I also assume that this goes for
> the 20-amp alt too.
>
> So, my question is three fold - are the B&C fuses I have (60, 40) adequate
> for the alternators I am installing? Do I need to exchange the 60-amp
fuse
> for an 80-amp version? Is the 40amp fuse too big for the smaller
> alternator?
>
> B&C mentioned that the fuses they sell can handle up to 80% rated current
> for a short time, but the specifics are a little vague.
>
> Thanks for your help! Love the book! More information on my web site if
> you care to take a look.
>
> James Redmon
> Berkut #013 N97TX
> www.berkut13.com
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: fuses vs. CBs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:27 PM 11/11/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robinson, Chad"
><crobinson@rfgonline.com>
>
>Hello all, Bob,
>
>I know the circuit for wiring up an LED indicator for a fuse, but I seem
>to recall seeing a photo of a commercially made fuse block with
>indicators already installed next to each slot. Can anybody tell me
>where I might obtain one? I can make my own, but it just seems silly
>that I would have to for such a theoretically simple and useful item,
>and I'd prefer something rugged and pre-molded, such as in
>thermoplastic.
>
>Please, no references to those fuses with LEDs built in. They're a neat
>idea, but THAT I would just do myself and it seems silly to have the LED
>be part of the disposable package. (I'm a Yankee, what can I say?)
>
>Hey, Bob, I don't know if you still have influence over B&C's product
>line but this would be a great product for them to carry.
Why would you want to add so much $time$ to a product that
has about one chance in 1000 of ever doing something useful?
Once you're past the development phase of your design and all
construction faults and nuisance trips are fixed, it's quite
likely that your airplane will run a lifetime and never open
a fuse.
If your system is fault tolerant then nothing in the
system is critical to comfortable completion of flight. So
unless you have such an abundance of $time$ that adding
LEDs to all the fuses doesn't adversely influence the
quality or expedient completion of other tasks, I'm
mystified as to how the $effort$ will add value to the
finished product.
Bob . . .
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Auxiliary battery ... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:18 AM 11/11/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michel RIAZUELO"
><mt.riazuelo@wanadoo.fr>
>
>Hi all,
>
>
>I prepare the wiring of my MCR SPORTSTER (ROTAX 912) according to Z16
>(obviously !). But, faithful to principle "SMALL IS BEAUTIFULL", total
>electric consumption is low and the advantage of an essential bus
>according to Bob' spirit is weak. All is essential!
Really? I used to enjoy flying a Piper J-3 Cub that as I recall was
fitted with
airspeed, altimeter, tachometer, oil pressure gage, oil temperature
gage, compass
and a float driven fuel quantity indicator hanging out the bottom of the
single tank on one wing. After some familiarization with the handling
qualities of the airplane, it could be handled comfortably without
reference
to any of those instruments. Are there flight qualities of your airplane
that suggest that it's harder to fly than a J-3, C-150 or any other
run-of-the-mill utility aircraft?
> The large-scale consumers are the flaps (10 A) and the pitch trim (5 A).
> Normally, if the alternator has a problem, I would have more autonomy of
> battery (8 AH) that of gasoline in the tank and might land without flaps.
Flaps draw current for only a few seconds and just before crossing
the threshold. This requires VERY LITTLE energy from the battery. Also,
trim is a very intermittent load, while both flaps and trim appear to
be horribly inefficient as evidenced by their current draws, none-the-less,
they still require very little total energy.
>The essential instruments, but not vital, the MED 80
>(http://www.bwavio.com/manuali/man_med_80_usa.pdf ), altimeter TASKEM 2000
>( http://www.taskemcorp.com/pdfnew/2000_Flyer.pdf ) and the VHF in
>reception mode, drain less than 1 A in all. I would like to find a
>solution in the event of total failure of the battery.
When was the last time you heard of such a thing happening?
What kind of battery was installed and how was it maintained?
> I think of a small completely independent auxiliary battery (charger at
> home), which could supply (with a switch) a pseudo Essential Bus
> supplying these three instruments. Which type of portable battery would
> be the best adapted to provide 800 to 900 mA during approximately 2 hours
> (270 Nm). Could the propulsion batteries of small-scale models (planes
> or boats) they be appropriate?
How about a hand-held GPS like the Magellan GPS310 and
a hand-held COM/VOR radio like the Japan Radio JHP520?
These take up very little room in the flight bag and
provide alternatives not only for any possible LOSS OF POWER
to the panel mounted radios but as backup for FAILURES of
the radios . . . which is far more likely to occur
than to have a battery go bad.
If you have access to a knowledgeable pilot who owns
one of these airplanes, have him show you how easy it is
to deal with the airplane while the whole instrument panel
is covered up and no electrical systems are working.
I'm guessing that most of your concerns are based on
lack of knowledge and understanding about the airplane
and mis-placed worries about the kinds of malfunctions you
are likely to experience.
I don't believe the airplane you're building is so
likely to become the beast you imagine . . . and
that recovering from the worst it can do is easy
plan for and deal with . . . without resorting
to any special battery installations.
I fly with dual hand-held GPS as sole navigation
every time I fly. I use the panel mounted COM but
don't depend on it. Whether ANYTHING on the panel
is working or not has little bearing on my probable
outcome of flight. I would encourage you to become
equally at ease with your project . . . it's not
difficult to do.
Bob . . .
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Aux battery...... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:43 AM 11/11/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>
> >The large-scale consumers are the flaps (10 A) and the pitch trim (5 A)
>
>Does anyone else find this excessive? These just seem like HUGE currents for
>motors in little airplanes.
Yup . . . typical of even the most clever combinations of
airframe and powerplant skills seem to produce electrical
systems with totally mystifying characteristics.
Bob . . .
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Current Limiter Confusion |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:27 PM 11/11/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" <james@berkut13.com>
>
>
>I received no responses from this...so, I'm posting again.....
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon"
><james@berkut13.com>
> >
> > I am building a Berkut (a canard pusher) and have both a B&C primary
> > 60-amp and backup 20-amp alternators. I am using the two alt, one battery
> > Z-12 design exactly as stated.
> >
> > I recently ordered two alternator fuse (current limiter) assembles - 1
> > 60-amp and one 40-amp from B&C (they don't sell a 20amp version). I just
> > read the update that mentioned that the minimum fuse for the 60amp
> > alternator should be 80-amp rated, and I also assume that this goes for
> > the 20-amp alt too.
> >
> > So, my question is three fold - are the B&C fuses I have (60, 40) adequate
> > for the alternators I am installing? Do I need to exchange the 60-amp
>fuse
> > for an 80-amp version? Is the 40amp fuse too big for the smaller
> > alternator?
> >
> > B&C mentioned that the fuses they sell can handle up to 80% rated current
> > for a short time, but the specifics are a little vague.
Sure what they're talking about here. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/anl/anlvsjjs.html
The ANL limiters you have purchased will be fine for
the task of b-lead protection of the 20 and 60 A alternators.
ANL limiters are MUCH more robust than fuses.
Bob . . .
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Remember when we used batteries? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:21 PM 11/10/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>
>Here's the very near term future in fuel cell power.
>
>http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2003_03/pr0501.htm
I saw some butane fueled prototypes a couple of years
ago. You could "fuel" then with the butane lighter
cans available from most hardware stores. Don't know
if that product has made it to the marketplace yet or
not.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst@taroom.qld.gov.au>
Bob et al
Is anybody able to advise me what sort of crimping tool is suitable for
Delphi Packard Pack-Con Series III terminals and a source of same
please?
Any help would be very much appreciated thanks.
Regards
Kingsley Hurst
Europa Builder in Oz.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Fuseholders & Crimping Tool |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
Kingsley,
The 12 ga terminals are crimped with a Packard Electric crimper p/n
12070947. The 20 - 14 ga terminals are crimped with a Packard Electric
crimper p/n 8913440. I have the latter on order. It's a "B" type crimper
and you might be able to use the crimper that B&C sells. The recommended
Packard crimper does both the wire crimp and insulation crimp at the same
time. I've already received one of the 20 position dual bus fuseholders
along with 100ea. of the different size terminals and am satisfied with the
way it is put together. It turns out that you can't buy the pieces and
assemble your own fuseholder of any size you want. Each size has to be
ordered complete with a minimum order of 24 pieces. How many people are
interested in these and in what sizes? I've gotten a request for a 12 pos
and 16 pos already.
Dave in Wichita
From: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst@taroom.qld.gov.au>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimping Tool
> Bob et al
>
> Is anybody able to advise me what sort of crimping tool is suitable for
> Delphi Packard Pack-Con Series III terminals and a source of same
> please?
>
> Kingsley Hurst
> Europa Builder in Oz.
Message 26
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| Subject: | ACS switch wiring with Rotax 912S |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joa Harrison <flyasuperseven@yahoo.com>
Does anybody know if you need to jumper terminal 1 and/or use the LR & BO terminals
with the Rotax 912S ignition system and the ACS A-510-2 switch?
Thanks.
Joa
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