Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:39 AM - Re: Auxiliary battery ... (Michel RIAZUELO)
2. 05:23 AM - Re: Picture of headset jacks (Jeffrey W. Skiba)
3. 10:05 AM - SD-8 preflight check (Ross Mickey)
4. 10:24 AM - Re: Roy's 40A alternator installation on the Rotax 912 (royt.or@netzero.com)
5. 10:51 AM - Re: SD-8 low voltage warning light (Ken Harrill)
6. 11:56 AM - Re: Auxiliary battery ... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 11:56 AM - Re: ACS switch wiring with Rotax 912S (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 11:59 AM - Re: SD-8 preflight check (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 12:30 PM - Crowbar OV protection (Scott Diffenbaugh)
10. 12:30 PM - Autoswitching dual alternators (Scott Diffenbaugh)
11. 12:30 PM - Re: Lighted, engraved rocker switches (Charlie Kuss)
12. 01:15 PM - Re: Autoswitching dual alternators (Matt Prather)
13. 01:24 PM - Lasar Ignition Draw (brucem@olypen.com)
14. 01:43 PM - Re: Autoswitching dual alternators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 01:52 PM - Re: Crowbar OV protection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 02:05 PM - Re: Lasar Ignition Draw (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 02:09 PM - Fire hazard (Terry Watson)
18. 02:33 PM - Re: Watsonville (Ron Patterson)
19. 02:56 PM - Crowbar OV protection (Scott Bilinski)
20. 03:00 PM - Re: Fire hazard (Scott Bilinski)
21. 04:02 PM - Re: Fire hazard (Terry Watson)
22. 05:12 PM - Re: Fire hazard (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 05:14 PM - Re: Crowbar OV protection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 05:41 PM - Subject Matter Expert Search (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 06:54 PM - Circuit breakers (Glen Matejcek)
26. 08:27 PM - Re: Circuit breakers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
27. 10:12 PM - Re: Lasar Ignition Draw (Werner Schneider)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Auxiliary battery ... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michel RIAZUELO" <mt.riazuelo@wanadoo.fr>
Bob, and all,
I think that I said silly things, or that I badly expressed myself or that I badly
understood your answer. or three at the same time....
>When was the last time you heard of such a thing happening? (battery failure)
To tell the truth, I fly from a long time on light aircraft which do not belong
to me, and I never wondered whether the battery could break down ! The truth
is that never a battery did not cause me a problem.
But on my plane that I want to keep simple and do not transform into AIRBUS, more
by refinement that by need, the simple solutions which increase safety or comfort,
interest me. It is from there that the idea of an independent power source
for the few essential instruments comes from .
I put again my question about the advantage of the essential bus in my case. The
flaps, trim, electric pump and strobe are activated on decision of the pilot.
All the other electric consumers would be those which would be connected to
the essential bus (VHF, Transpondeur, engine control and DIGITAL Altimeter)
I received the B&C OVM and I will wire according to Z-16 with the lamp announcing
that the alternator is out and telling me I have to be thrifty.
So, Essential Bus : useful or not ?
In addition to voltmeter, I want to install an ammeter. I received the B&C shunt
(20 A), but it seams not easy to find the indicator without internal shunt.
>How about a hand-held GPS like the Magellan GPS310 and
>a hand-held COM/VOR radio like the Japan Radio JHP520?
>These take up very little room in the flight bag and ................................
Yes, I plan to have the ICOM IC-A22/E witch is certified in France.
Many thanks Bob for the time you spend for us. And sorry not to have finished
the reading of "AeroElectric connection"!
Regards,
Michel.
MCR SPORTSTER in progress ...
Message 2
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| Subject: | Picture of headset jacks |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba@icosa.net>
YEAP that's it
THANKS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Checkoway
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Picture of headset jacks
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
--> <dan@rvproject.com>
Might this be the one?
http://www.rvproject.com/images/jack_wiring.jpg
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba@icosa.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Picture of headset jacks
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeffrey W. Skiba"
<jskiba@icosa.net>
>
> That helps but the one I was thinking of was almost a sketch of a jack
> and
I
> thought it was a stereo headphone jack.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Jeff
>
> Check out the link below:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/micjack/micjack.html
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses]
Message 3
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| Subject: | SD-8 preflight check |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey@ix.netcom.com>
I wired my RV6A using Z-13. I have one of Bob's loadmeter/voltmeters that
is not operating on the loadmeter side but is working on the voltmeter side.
Doing my pre-flight tests, turning on the main alternator, the voltmeter
shows a jump from battery voltage to 14+ volts. When I shut down the main
alternator and main bus and turn on the SD-8, I get no movement above
battery voltage. Is this normal? If so, how do I check to see if the SD-8
is working in pre-flight? Some of my instruments are hooked directly to the
essential bus (no intermediate switch) so I can't turn everything off so
there is no load on the battery.
Ross Mickey
N9PT
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Roy's 40A alternator installation on the Rotax |
912
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: royt.or@netzero.com
Bob,
Rotax and other(s?) offer an optional belt driven 40A alternator for the 912 and
914 engine families. These kits have a propeller flange pulley added to drive
the belt for the alternator. The bracket to support the alternator mounts in
existing holes in the 912/914 family.
I received my external alternator about three years ago and Im not sure who I ordered
it from. The documentation for my optional alternator indicates the supplier
is Aircarft Sales and Parts in Vernon B.C. Canada. Ph (250) 549-1102. email
asap@junction.net. This kit uses an ND internally regulated alternator.
My alternator looks like the external alternator at http://www.ultralightnews.ca/rotax912/912-externalAltKit.htm and has a SRP of ~$700 and also at http://www.leadingedge-airfoils.com pn R4912. LEAF also lists Rotax PN 887-251 which I believe is the external alternator from Rotax, and is nearly $1300. A picture of the Rotax kit can be seen at the bottom of http://www.kodiakbs.com/accessories/acc4.pdf .
My Zenith CH601HDS was not designed to specifically support the external alternator
and I had two areas which needed modification. The Zenith oil cooler mount
also expected to use one of the threaded holes where the alternator mounts and
I changed the oil cooler mount as a result. Also, the cowling needed to be
trimmed to clear the alternator pulley.
Ill take pictures of my installation during the next week and send to you directly.
Regards,
Roy
Message 5
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| Subject: | SD-8 low voltage warning light |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken Harrill <KHarrill@osa.state.sc.us>
On preflight I check the SD-8 by switching it on and then switching the main
alternator off. If voltage remains at 13 volts or better, it is working.
If it is not working the voltage will drop to about 12.5. The SD-8 will not
charge, at least in my system, below about 1500 RPM.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, 285 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Prather [mailto:mprather@spro.net]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: SD-8 low voltage warning light
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
It is possible test the SD8 when at runup or in flight. You can
disable the main Alt, and make sure that the load meter on the SD8
gives a positive reading, indicating that it is charging. You will
have to play with bus loads to see how much its putting out.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Auxiliary battery ... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:38 AM 11/13/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michel RIAZUELO"
><mt.riazuelo@wanadoo.fr>
>
>Bob, and all,
>
>
>I think that I said silly things, or that I badly expressed myself or that
>I badly understood your answer. or three at the same time....
>
>
> >When was the last time you heard of such a thing happening? (battery
> failure)
>
>
>To tell the truth, I fly from a long time on light aircraft which do not
>belong to me, and I never wondered whether the battery could break down !
>The truth is that never a battery did not cause me a problem.
>
>
>But on my plane that I want to keep simple and do not transform into
>AIRBUS, more by refinement that by need, the simple solutions which
>increase safety or comfort, interest me. It is from there that the idea of
>an independent power source for the few essential instruments comes from .
>
>I put again my question about the advantage of the essential bus in my
>case. The flaps, trim, electric pump and strobe are activated on decision
>of the pilot. All the other electric consumers would be those which would
>be connected to the essential bus (VHF, Transpondeur, engine control and
>DIGITAL Altimeter)
Lets call it the ENDURANCE bus . . . it serves two purposes:
(1) it provides a means for dependable operation of things necessary
and/or useful for comfortable continuation of flight in case of
alternator failure while (2) MINIMIZING utilization of a limited
resource - ENERGY in the battery. It's dependable because of DUAL
pathways from power source(s) to the bus and MINIMIZED CONSUMPTION
because it can bypass the battery contactor thereby eliminating
a parasitic load on the battery (battery contactor draws 0.8 to
1.0 amps). Contactor draw contributes nothing the operation of equipment
while tossing off 4x the energy it takes to operate a capable nav radio.
>I received the B&C OVM and I will wire according to Z-16 with the lamp
>announcing that the alternator is out and telling me I have to be thrifty.
Good . . .
>So, Essential Bus : useful or not ?
I think so . . .
>In addition to voltmeter, I want to install an ammeter. I received the B&C
>shunt (20 A), but it seams not easy to find the indicator without internal
>shunt.
I've tried Westach instruments and found them wanting
for quality control. Out of 30 instruments they built for
me, I had to return 4 for some kind of rework out of the
box!!!!! One instrument was returned twice and finally
trashed. This was for a sticking pointer (probably contamination
in the magnet-coil gap) that they couldn't seem to fix on
two tries.
I'm impressed with Mitchell products. I think they do
clusters for Mooney. I'm writing to them today to see if
they can offer a 0-100% reading loadmeter with a 50 millivolt
movement that would work with ANY size alternator by simply
cutting the appropriate shunt. They can do a really nice
1.5" instrument that would look like
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/loadmeter.jpg
This is very similar to instruments already supplied by
Mitchell. Will let the group know what I find out.
> >How about a hand-held GPS like the Magellan GPS310 and
> >a hand-held COM/VOR radio like the Japan Radio JHP520?
> >These take up very little room in the flight bag and
> ................................
>
>
>Yes, I plan to have the ICOM IC-A22/E witch is certified in France.
>
>
>Many thanks Bob for the time you spend for us. And sorry not to have
>finished the reading of "AeroElectric connection"!
No big deal, it takes time. I read a book last weekend on
Basic Economics. Very interesting and an easy read but
it was like taking a drink from a firehose. It's something
you have to go over several times with each pass adding
new layers of understanding. It's not the cover-to-cover
read that gives you the most benefit but the 10-minutes-a-
day-every-day that will expand your grasp on the simple-ideas
that make it all work.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: ACS switch wiring with Rotax 912S |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:24 AM 11/13/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alfred Buess"
><Alfred.Buess@shl.bfh.ch>
>
>Bob,
>
>Z-17 shows no wire between GRD and the panel ground block . Is the switch
>only grounded by the wire shields at the ignition terminal points? Would a
>separate ground wire from the switch to the ground block create a groud loop?
yes. the extra wire is unnecessary and may INCREASE noise.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: SD-8 preflight check |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:07 PM 11/12/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey@ix.netcom.com>
>
>I wired my RV6A using Z-13. I have one of Bob's loadmeter/voltmeters that
>is not operating on the loadmeter side but is working on the voltmeter side.
>Doing my pre-flight tests, turning on the main alternator, the voltmeter
>shows a jump from battery voltage to 14+ volts. When I shut down the main
>alternator and main bus and turn on the SD-8, I get no movement above
>battery voltage. Is this normal? If so, how do I check to see if the SD-8
>is working in pre-flight? Some of my instruments are hooked directly to the
>essential bus (no intermediate switch) so I can't turn everything off so
>there is no load on the battery.
The SD-8 puts out rated current only at cruise RPM, it may indeed
take 2000 or more RPM to put out ANY current. Have you tried it at
elevated throttle settings? It would be sufficient to see an up-tick
in loadmeter reading at some higher throttle setting.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Crowbar OV protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Diffenbaugh" <diff@foothill.net>
Bob, Thanks for the education, but my curiosity is getting the best of me.
Following the AEC philosophy of minimizing circuit breakers, and if a
circuit breaker is required in the crowbar OV scheme, the implication is
that maybe a reset should be attempted. Are there any circumstances during
flight when one should contemplate re-setting the breaker, or should one go
directly to Plan B & collect $100?
Message 10
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| Subject: | Autoswitching dual alternators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Diffenbaugh" <diff@foothill.net>
Sorry, I thought the aux alternator switch on Z-12 would be normally open.
Apparently it is closed during normal operations of both alternators.
The description for Z-13 in the book indicates that the SD-8 would be
switched on in the event of a main alternator failure, so it doesn't appear
to be autoswitched. Would it make sense to autoswitch it like Z-12? One
less thing to worry about.
BTW, how does the E bus get its power in event of a battery contactor
failure in Z-12? I'm sure its there, I just don't see it. It appears to me
both alternators would go down so no power thru the diode to the E bus.
As a side question, I have been very curious as to the failure rate of
battery contactors? The book suggests you should carry spares if you use
Type I, which mine looks like.
Thank you,
Scott
Time: 11:36:48 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Autoswitching dual alternators
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:29 AM 11/12/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Diffenbaugh"
><diff@foothill.net>
>
>I have just learned that it is not a good idea to have dual alternators
>running at the same time for many reasons. How about using autoswitching
>mentioned in the AEC as "...the easiest way to add a second engine driven
>power source to an existing design." Since it doesn't appear to be used in
>Z-12 or Z-13, can someone explain why not use it? Thank you.
You lost me . . . Z-12 IS an autoswitched design. One simply
ties both main and aux alternators to the bus and sets
the aux alternator about a volt below the main alternator.
You run both alternators ON all the time. The aux alternator
regulator sees a "too high" bus and simply relaxes. If the
main alternator fails, bus voltage sags and the aux alternator
comes alive to pick up the load.
The SB-1 regulator was specifically designed for this service
in that what WAS a "low volts" warning light HAS BEEN MODIFIED
to measure aux alternator b-lead current with a hall-effect
current sensor. When the main alternator goes down, current draw
from the aux alternator jumps up. If the current exceeds 20A,
the light flashes. When you switch off enough things to bring
the current below 20A, the light switches to steady operation.
This is the system STC'ed on many certified aircraft by B&C
and is a reasonable alternative to the major changes necessary
to implement Z-14 in a certified ship. I don't recommend
it for new design but that doesn't mean it isn't a perfectly
acceptable alternative to traditional systems flying in
virtually all certified ships. If this architecture floats
your boat then drive on . . . it's still light-years ahead
of most hardware flying today.
Bob . . .
Scott Diffenbaugh
diff@foothill.net
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Lighted, engraved rocker switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Brett,
Are these available in double pole and double throw models? What is the pricing
on these units?
Charlie Kuss
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brett Ferrell <bferrell@123mail.net>
>
>They can also do very nice custom lighted legend sheets. They did mine for my
Veloctiy XL's overhead switch panel:
>http://www.velocityxl.com/Electrical.htm#Chapter 13.3.4 - Switches and Circuit Protection
>
>Brett
>
>Quoting Scot Stambaugh <sstambaugh@qualcomm.com>:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scot
>> Stambaugh <sstambaugh@qualcomm.com>
>>
>> If you go with the toggles you might consider this
>> stuff:
>> http://sptpanel.com/glow_strips.htm
>> I installed it in my Rocket and like it a lot because
>> it is
>> dimmable. Attached is a picture of my cockpit with
>> the lights out and the
>> panels lit using the glow strips.
>>
>> scot
>>
>>
>> At 09:29 AM 11/12/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott
>> Diffenbaugh"
>> ><diff@foothill.net>
>> >
>> >Can anyone point me to a good source for high quality
>> engraved lighted
>> >rocker switches?
>> >If I change my mind and end up going with toggle
>> switches, what is the best
>> >way to light them. (All of my instruments & avionics
>> will be internally
>> >lighted)
>> >
>> >Scott Diffenbaugh
>> >diff@foothill.net
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> on the
>> this
>> generous
>> Contributions
>> any other
>> Forums.
>> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
>> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
>> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Visit us at www.velocityxl.com
>44VF Velocity XL/FG
>I68 Cincinnati, OH
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Autoswitching dual alternators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Hi Scott,
I put some comments below.
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Diffenbaugh"
> <diff@foothill.net>
>
> Sorry, I thought the aux alternator switch on Z-12 would be normally
> open. Apparently it is closed during normal operations of both
> alternators.
>
> The description for Z-13 in the book indicates that the SD-8 would be
> switched on in the event of a main alternator failure, so it doesn't
> appear to be autoswitched. Would it make sense to autoswitch it like
> Z-12? One less thing to worry about.
I think the auto switching feature of z-12 depends on a specially
calibrated regulator. The normal SD8 regulator can be used on Z-13.
I wonder, however, what the harm would be in always leaving the SD8
powered up. I think it is generating power as long as its spinning,
unlike a conventional alternator since it doesn't have the ability
to vary field current. Maybe the SD8 regulator wouldn't like it.
>
> BTW, how does the E bus get its power in event of a battery contactor
> failure in Z-12? I'm sure its there, I just don't see it. It appears
> to me both alternators would go down so no power thru the diode to the E
> bus.
The e-bus is powered from 2 sources that I can see. One is via
the battery bus through the 'e-bus alternate feed' switch. This
is the path to use if the main battery contactor is off-line. The
other connection is via the diode connecting the ebus to the main
bus.
>
> As a side question, I have been very curious as to the failure rate of
> battery contactors? The book suggests you should carry spares if you
> use Type I, which mine looks like.
I think I might keep a spare at the hangar, but not in the airplane.
It seems like the cheapies get cantankerous with age. I have seen
them get slowly worse - a condition that gives you some warning.
If you notice that the main contactor seems to be getting tired, the
next time you are at home, swap it out.
> Thank you,
> Scott
>
> Time: 11:36:48 AM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Autoswitching dual alternators
>
snip
Message 13
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| Subject: | Lasar Ignition Draw |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: brucem@olypen.com
In doing an electrical load analysis for my GlaStar I went to the Lasar service
manual that cost me $75. I could find no mention of the average power
consumption for the electronic ignition mode for my O-320, other than the
instruction to connect it to a 10 amp dedicated circuit. Nor was there any
description of how that mode works.
I could assume that it's a CDI module and use typical draws. For example Light
Speed uses 2.5 amps (12v) for both sets of plugs on a four cylinder engine.
Any thoughts from the list will be appreciated.
Regards, Bruce
McGregor
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using OlyPen's WebMail.
http://www.olypen.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Autoswitching dual alternators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:29 PM 11/13/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Diffenbaugh"
><diff@foothill.net>
>
>Sorry, I thought the aux alternator switch on Z-12 would be normally open.
>Apparently it is closed during normal operations of both alternators.
Correct. The differential between regulator settings causes the
aux alternator to relax during normal operations.
>The description for Z-13 in the book indicates that the SD-8 would be
>switched on in the event of a main alternator failure, so it doesn't appear
>to be autoswitched. Would it make sense to autoswitch it like Z-12? One
>less thing to worry about.
Don't recommend this. There's no provisions in the SD-8 regulator
to annunciate the failure. The SD-20 and its companion regulator
are specifically designed for both-always-ON-autoswitched operation.
>BTW, how does the E bus get its power in event of a battery contactor
>failure in Z-12? I'm sure its there, I just don't see it. It appears to me
>both alternators would go down so no power thru the diode to the E bus.
Just like the e-bus in all other cases where the e-bus is suggested . . .
close the alternate feed switch that takes power from the battery bus
directly to the e-bus.
>As a side question, I have been very curious as to the failure rate of
>battery contactors? The book suggests you should carry spares if you use
>Type I, which mine looks like.
I have builders doing that . . . but I'll bet none of them have had
to dip into spare parts on a trip. I've flown airplanes where this style
of contactor has operated trouble free for over ten years. Had
an airplane in my rental fleet need two replacements in six
months (I think the first replacement was damaged during
install). Failure rate is acceptably low. The MAJOR advantage
of the e-bus with alternate feed is to ELIMINATE even a perfectly
good contactor from battery loads during alternator out operations.
Once the airport is in sight and you have clearance to land, close
the battery contactor to operating anything else you wish . . . past
this point, energy stored in the battery is a non issue and can
be used in any way desired for remainder of flight.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Crowbar OV protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:29 PM 11/13/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Diffenbaugh"
><diff@foothill.net>
>
>Bob, Thanks for the education, but my curiosity is getting the best of me.
>
> Following the AEC philosophy of minimizing circuit breakers, and if a
>circuit breaker is required in the crowbar OV scheme, the implication is
>that maybe a reset should be attempted. Are there any circumstances during
>flight when one should contemplate re-setting the breaker, or should one go
>directly to Plan B & collect $100?
There are situations where the crowbar ov protection module can
be nuisance tripped. If it nuisance trips, it's most
likely to do it when some accessory is operated (Ref: the post
earlier this week where someone on the RV-List was asking about
nuisance trips of his ov system while being either ignorant of
or ignoring articulate assistance available from AeroElectric
Connection, B&C or participating here on the Aeroelectric-List).
If you get a field breaker trip, and it happens when you flipped
a switch, it is likely that you have some kind of noise issue to
chase out of the system and the breaker can be reset one time
(while watching the voltmeter or alternator load-meter). If it
stays in, cool. Trouble shoot the noise problem on the ground.
If it trips again immediately (with corresponding response on
panel instrumentation that says the alternator is working
overtime) then don't try any more and again, troubleshoot the
ov problem on the ground.
No breaker should be reset more than one time in flight and
most breakers should not be reset at all. Alt field breaker
driving a crowbar ov module is a special case.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Lasar Ignition Draw |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:23 PM 11/13/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: brucem@olypen.com
>
>In doing an electrical load analysis for my GlaStar I went to the Lasar
>service
>manual that cost me $75. I could find no mention of the average power
>consumption for the electronic ignition mode for my O-320, other than the
>instruction to connect it to a 10 amp dedicated circuit. Nor was there any
>description of how that mode works.
I'm not surprised . . . folks-who-claim-to-know-more-about-airplanes-
than-we-do will drive a certification effort through a whole
raft of obscure, no-value-added hoops while totally overlooking
essential data . . .
>I could assume that it's a CDI module and use typical draws. For example
>Light
>Speed uses 2.5 amps (12v) for both sets of plugs on a four cylinder engine.
That's a reasonable assumption. Suppose it's REALLY 3A, would
this adversely affect the first pass on your load analysis?
It's easy to measure after your system is up and running and
I'd be surprised if it draws more than 2A in flight . . . please
do the measurement and share the data with us.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
One of the best locations for my engine hour gauge in my RV-8A would appear
to be in a sloped section of what is called the left mid-cabin cover. The
problem is that this is right over the fuel valve and the largest
concentration of fuel lines and fuel line fittings in the airplane, and
therefore an area that would seem to me most susceptible to a fuel leak. I
have been trying to keep the wiring out of that area. Is this a reasonable
concern or just a superstition?
Thanks,
Terry
Message 18
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ron Patterson <scc_ron@yahoo.com>
Hi Mickey,
I think if you can learn from a book, (I don't do that so well...more of a visual
learner) then I think you will be fine. The bottom line is...no circut breakers,
no avionics master switch necessary, use fuse blocks (2 or 3) for main bus,
essential buss and possibly battery buss. Use a central grounding block under
the panel with push on connectors.
He talks about not preventing failure but being "failure tolerant", ie: if the
main bus goes down, you have the essential bus to fly on to destination (or until
you can safely land). repairs are done on the ground, not toubleshot in the
air.
I'm sure if Bob were to summarize his ideas for you he could do much better than
me. Indeed, get the book! many of his ideas are there.
Mickey Coggins <mick@rv8.ch> wrote:
Hi Ron,
Did you learn things that are not in the book?
I'm wondering if it is worth flying to the session
in Ft. Worth from Switzerland. If it is just a
matter of me buckling down and really carefully
reading the book, that would be a better use of
my time, I believe.
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
GSM: +41-79-210-3762
FAX: +41-86-079-210-3762
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007
Empennage complete, waiting for wings to arrive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Crowbar OV protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Just throwing out some info here for a heads up. I have the overvoltage
module wired in and everything working great. One day I had trouble
starting the engine....my fault. Once the engine was started the battery
was very low, I tried to turn on the alt and it would not turn on???? I
then killed the engine turned on the alt and restarted and the alt was
working hard to charge the battery. So at least in my application a very
low battery will trip the over voltage module when switching on the alt. At
least thats what appeared to happen. Now that I know this, I consider it a
non issue.
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 20
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Why cant you put it on the opposite side of the canopy?
At 02:08 PM 11/13/03 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
>
>One of the best locations for my engine hour gauge in my RV-8A would appear
>to be in a sloped section of what is called the left mid-cabin cover. The
>problem is that this is right over the fuel valve and the largest
>concentration of fuel lines and fuel line fittings in the airplane, and
>therefore an area that would seem to me most susceptible to a fuel leak. I
>have been trying to keep the wiring out of that area. Is this a reasonable
>concern or just a superstition?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Terry
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 21
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
There's already too much going on in that panel. Heater control and two 12V
outlets.
Thanks,
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott
Bilinski
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fire hazard
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Why cant you put it on the opposite side of the canopy?
At 02:08 PM 11/13/03 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson"
<terry@tcwatson.com>
>
>One of the best locations for my engine hour gauge in my RV-8A would appear
>to be in a sloped section of what is called the left mid-cabin cover. The
>problem is that this is right over the fuel valve and the largest
>concentration of fuel lines and fuel line fittings in the airplane, and
>therefore an area that would seem to me most susceptible to a fuel leak. I
>have been trying to keep the wiring out of that area. Is this a reasonable
>concern or just a superstition?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Terry
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 22
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:08 PM 11/13/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
>
>One of the best locations for my engine hour gauge in my RV-8A would appear
>to be in a sloped section of what is called the left mid-cabin cover. The
>problem is that this is right over the fuel valve and the largest
>concentration of fuel lines and fuel line fittings in the airplane, and
>therefore an area that would seem to me most susceptible to a fuel leak. I
>have been trying to keep the wiring out of that area. Is this a reasonable
>concern or just a superstition?
Let's consider your concerns a bit. Most items on the
panel are fed with 5A circuit protection or smaller. 5A
protection will prevent damage to a 22AWG wire (equal to
solid copper .025" diameter). What is the wall thickness
and volume of the metal line? A cursory thermal study
would suggest that the wire is 100X more vulnerable
than a fuel line. The same fuses that protect wires
also protect anything the wire might come into contact
with.
Bob . . .
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Crowbar OV protection |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:56 PM 11/13/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>Just throwing out some info here for a heads up. I have the overvoltage
>module wired in and everything working great. One day I had trouble
>starting the engine....my fault. Once the engine was started the battery
>was very low, I tried to turn on the alt and it would not turn on????
Was the breaker tripped?
> I
>then killed the engine turned on the alt and restarted and the alt was
>working hard to charge the battery. So at least in my application a very
>low battery will trip the over voltage module when switching on the alt. At
>least thats what appeared to happen. Now that I know this, I consider it a
>non issue.
If the OV module takes an alternator off line, it MUST open
the breaker to do it.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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| Subject: | Subject Matter Expert Search |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
I'm looking for an individuals with expertise in microwave low noise
amplifiers and/or isolation of receiver/transmitter portions of
millimeter wave radars using a common antenna. If anyone monitoring
the AeroElectric-List has some knowledge in these disciplines (or
knows someone who might) . . . I'd like to hear from them directly
and off-list. Thanks!
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 25
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| Subject: | Circuit breakers |
MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>>Howdy-
>>
>>While comparison shopping on the web I discovered that one can get CB's
>>that will work in ATC / automotive style fuse blocks. Does anyone have
>>any insights as to the reliability / quality / applicability of these
>>devices to our homebuilts?
>Why would you want to use a part that is more expensive, higher parts
>count and adds no level of protection greater than the simple fuse?
>Bob . . .
Well, how about your recent comments on the crowbar OV protection? And all of
the schematics from your friends at B&C? Now, if I'm going to put in an ATC-style
fuse block, how much more convenient and neat could I possibly get than to
use an ATC style CB to do the job? The only question in my mind is if these
CB's are equal to our needs.
And I still don't know if they're suitable...
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Circuit breakers |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:54 PM 11/13/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek"
><aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>
> >>Howdy-
> >>
> >>While comparison shopping on the web I discovered that one can get CB's
> >>that will work in ATC / automotive style fuse blocks. Does anyone have
> >>any insights as to the reliability / quality / applicability of these
> >>devices to our homebuilts?
>
> >Why would you want to use a part that is more expensive, higher parts
> >count and adds no level of protection greater than the simple fuse?
>
> >Bob . . .
>
>
>Well, how about your recent comments on the crowbar OV protection?
What about them?
> And all of the schematics from your friends at B&C?
You lost me. B&C probably shows breakers on all of their
drawings, I show a mix depending on which z-drawing you're
looking at. As far as the crowbar ov module goes, I AWAYS
show a breaker feeding the alternator field circuit. If you
choose fuseblocks for the remainder of the airplane's bus
structure and circuit protection, then I show a feed off
the main bus with a fusible link to the only circuit breaker
in the panel.
On the other hand, if choose to go all breakers, then a breaker
to feed the crowbar protected alternator-field supply
is automatically satisfied.
> Now, if I'm going to put in an ATC-style fuse block, how much more
> convenient and neat could I possibly get than to use an ATC style CB to
> do the job? The only question in my mind is if these CB's are equal to
> our needs.
>
>And I still don't know if they're suitable...
They'll probably work as advertised. "Suitable" is a vague
term. My perception is that they add no value because they're
more expensive and add complexity which pushes reliability
down while doing nothing for me that a fuse won't do. I have
no hands-on experience . . . so no real-life data to offer.
Are you considering ATC-Breaker for ALL of the protection
slots in the fuseblock or just for the alternator field
circuit?
Bob . . .
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Lasar Ignition Draw |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Hi Bruce,
I have a 10A fuse, idle current (engine nor running) measured 0.2A plus
20ma for my LED warning light, running current is in my case 2A.
Glastar #5794
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: <brucem@olypen.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Lasar Ignition Draw
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: brucem@olypen.com
>
> In doing an electrical load analysis for my GlaStar I went to the Lasar
service
> manual that cost me $75. I could find no mention of the average power
> consumption for the electronic ignition mode for my O-320, other than the
> instruction to connect it to a 10 amp dedicated circuit. Nor was there
any
> description of how that mode works.
>
> I could assume that it's a CDI module and use typical draws. For example
Light
> Speed uses 2.5 amps (12v) for both sets of plugs on a four cylinder
engine.
>
> Any thoughts from the list will be appreciated.
>
> Regards, Bruce
> McGregor
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> This message was sent using OlyPen's WebMail.
> http://www.olypen.com
>
>
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