Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:59 AM - Re: wire size for charging battery (Dan Checkoway)
2. 01:58 AM - Re: tach wiring Rotax 912S (Duncan McBride)
3. 04:35 AM - ROTAX 912 regulator (mainly) ... (Michel RIAZUELO)
4. 05:07 AM - Re: Future replacement for Rotax (klehman@albedo.net)
5. 05:07 AM - amphib gear warning (klehman@albedo.net)
6. 05:26 AM - Re: amphib gear warning (BobsV35B@aol.com)
7. 06:35 AM - Re: amphib gear warning (Rhett Westerman)
8. 07:28 AM - Re: noise from strobes (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 09:45 AM - Re: Re: fuses vs. CBs (Phil Birkelbach)
10. 10:15 AM - LOC? - What's That? (Matt Dralle)
11. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: fuses vs. CBs (Dan Branstrom)
12. 11:21 AM - Re: Cool schematic CAD program (Bob Gibson)
13. 01:18 PM - Re: Future replacement for Rotax (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 01:22 PM - Re: Re: fuses vs. CBs (Chad Robinson)
15. 01:40 PM - Re: Re: fuses vs. CBs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 02:53 PM - Re: Future replacement for Rotax (Gilles.Thesee)
17. 07:18 PM - Re: Future replacement for Rotax (David Carter)
18. 07:29 PM - Re: Future replacement for Rotax (Dave Morris)
19. 07:35 PM - Re: Future replacement for Rotax (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 07:44 PM - Re: Future replacement for Rotax (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 08:09 PM - Re: Future replacement for Rotax (David Carter)
22. 10:45 PM - Re: Cool schematic CAD program (j1j2h3@juno.com)
23. 11:31 PM - Rgulator and heat (Werner Schneider)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: wire size for charging battery |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> Which is why you put some form of circuit protection in ANY wire
> attached to ANY battery for ANY reason.
Bob,
I pretty much followed Z-11 on my RV-7, and I've got a 14AWG wire between
the battery (+) terminal and my battery bus. The battery is just fwd of the
firewall, and the battery bus is just aft of the firewall. The wire is
completely unprotected.
I believe this has come up before, and if I recall the answer was that as
long as the wire is as short as possible (i.e. around 6" or less), circuit
protection for that short wire is not "required" in this case.
Is that true in this case, or would you install a fuse link on that wire,
positioned as close as practical to the (+) terminal? I'm probably just
taking your comment above too literally, but I figure it can't hurt to
clarify. ;-)
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: tach wiring Rotax 912S |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" <duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
I have a 912 on a Kolb Twinstar. When I was trying to determine the source
of noise in my com radio, I heard from several sources that the tach lead
was a source of noise. I disconnected the leads from the system and tried
the radio. There wasn't any difference in the noise, which I've determined
was due to wind and audio noise coming through the microphones. I wouldn't
change it if it's already wired, unless a test revealed it was the source of
interference. It's easy enough to test.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joa Harrison" <flyasuperseven@yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: tach wiring Rotax 912S
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joa Harrison
<flyasuperseven@yahoo.com>
>
> When wiring the tach on the 912S is shielded wire needed going from the
engine sender to the unit?
>
> Joa
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | ROTAX 912 regulator (mainly) ... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michel RIAZUELO" <mt.riazuelo@wanadoo.fr>
Hi Bob,
My reading of THE book advances well. I would recommend to the future readers who
are already a little informed in electricity and electronics topics, to start
with the chapter "Electrical System Reliability". It lights the general philosphy
and gives desire for reading all the remainder!!!
Some questions:
(1) Why the starter contactor is conected in series with the master switch? Which
would be the disadvantage if the starter contactor were directly connected
to B+?
(2) The alternator of the ROTAX 912 is a permanent magnet model. If I well understood,
the power which it delivers depends only its RPM. I thus think that work
of regulator DUCATI consists in transforming into heat the electric output
not consumed by the aircraft equipments. It has the reputation to be often transformed
into toaster. Is this true or false? The recent answer of Bob is a beginning
of explanation.
>My experiment with Ducati shares suggests poor to attention
>design with respect to keeping internal shares of the regulator
>within to their best operating temperature arranges. B&C' S "heavy
>duty "regulator was nothing more that the standard circuit
>with robust, well heat-sinked shares.
Which is the B&C regulator reference? Does its installation allow to strongly reduce
the probability of having troubles?
(3) I fixed two 15 cm angles aluminium (40 mm x 40 mm) to increase the thermal
heat-transferring surface. I am not certain effectiveness but I think that cannot
worsen the situation. Am I right or wrong ?
(4) What hapens when the alternator is not connected (I wire following Z-16), because
the master switch in on median position or because the OVM did its work.
Does the regulator transform all the power into heat, or isolate the alternator
?
(5) I wire with Z-16, but I would evolve in the spirit of Z-12 if the autonomy
of the E-bus is not sufficient for my travels. Which model of secondary alternator
is well adapted to the ROTAX 912 and able to provide approximately 10 A (other
that that of ROTAX)?
Thanks for your answer.
Regards.
Michel RIAZUELO
MCR SPORTSTER in progress
Cholet FRANCE
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Future replacement for Rotax |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: klehman@albedo.net
Is the John Deere rectifier/regulator any better (or different) than the
Rotax/Ducati? They us it on a large PM alternator that is good for at
least 20 amps.
Ken
Message 5
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| Subject: | amphib gear warning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: klehman@albedo.net
Hi
It makes such a mess when you land an amphib floatplane gear down in
water that I was giving a little thought to an intelligent gear warning.
There are some cheap DIY candidates for a trigger such as hardware store
electronic rulers or other more conventional methods. However does
anyone have any thoughts on a device that would discern the difference
between land and water from at least 10 and preferably about 50 feet? My
first thought was the microwave oven frequency of 2.45 ghz but something
cheaper and safer to play with would be nice. Something like 90%
accuracy would be sufficient for a cheap DIY project. It just has to be
accurate enough to prompt an overshoot and sort it out later "just in
case"...
thanks
Ken
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: amphib gear warning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 11/18/03 7:13:32 AM Central Standard Time,
klehman@albedo.net writes:
It makes such a mess when you land an amphib floatplane gear down in
water that I was giving a little thought to an intelligent gear warning.
Good Morning Ken,
This idea won't be automatic, but I did see something on a Republic SeaBee
many years ago that I thought was the best I had ever seen on an amphibian.
This owner had made two little boxes that each would hold a standard thirty-five
millimeter photograph transparency slide. The boxes were mounted side by side
at the very top of the instrument panel directly in the pilots line of sight
over the nose. They were each equipped with a bulb to light the transparency
One was lighted by the gear up light circuit and the other was lighted when
the gear was down. The gear up transparency was a view of an idyllic lake
setting. The gear down light was a picture of a nice, well painted and marked,
asphalt runway.
As long as the view out the window matched the lighted transparency, all was
well.
Of course, you still have to remember to look!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Do Not Archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | amphib gear warning |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rhett Westerman" <Rhettwesterman@cox.net>
Ken,
I have the Lake warning system on my amphib and it works well, but not
cheap. I saw an add last month for a non stc version at about half the cost
in the EAA sport aviation mag.
The lake works on airspeed. When the airspeed goes below a certain limit,
it notifies you of the expected landing terrain based on wheel position
indicators.
For me, the system you describe that identifies land or water would not
work for me as I fly in and out of small canals and often come in for a
water landing low over terrain before reaching water.
best,
Rhett
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
klehman@albedo.net
Subject: AeroElectric-List: amphib gear warning
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: klehman@albedo.net
Hi
It makes such a mess when you land an amphib floatplane gear down in
water that I was giving a little thought to an intelligent gear warning.
There are some cheap DIY candidates for a trigger such as hardware store
electronic rulers or other more conventional methods. However does
anyone have any thoughts on a device that would discern the difference
between land and water from at least 10 and preferably about 50 feet? My
first thought was the microwave oven frequency of 2.45 ghz but something
cheaper and safer to play with would be nice. Something like 90%
accuracy would be sufficient for a cheap DIY project. It just has to be
accurate enough to prompt an overshoot and sort it out later "just in
case"...
thanks
Ken
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: noise from strobes |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:52 AM 11/18/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>Thanks much. I`m going to order the fat capacitor from B&C and start as
>you advised.
Do the battery experiment first to make sure the noise
is getting out on the power leads. If it got another
pathway, adding the capacitor won't help.
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: fuses vs. CBs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
The company that I work for puts blown fuse indicator type terminal blocks
in the panels that we build as a matter of practice. Personally I hate the
things. They only give you useful information about half the time, and they
make troubleshooting the circuilt a nightmare. They make testing the
circuit with a voltmeter all but impossible because there is ALWAYS voltage
downstream of the fuse, even when the fuse is blown. Another problem is
that the circuit must have load on it for the indicator to work in the first
place. You can't just look at the indicators during pre-flight and get any
useful information because any circuit that is not turned on (lights,
autopilot etc.) will not indicate a blown fuse anyway.
I personally agree with Bob. If the device is necessary for flight check
it's operation during the preflight (not the status of it's circuit
protection device) and then fly comfortably.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Branstrom" <danbranstrom@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: fuses vs. CBs
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Branstrom"
<danbranstrom@verizon.net>
>
> <snip>> LEDs to show which fuse failed. That's what I want. I can do it
> myself with a small board next to the fuse block, I just don't want to.
I'd
> rather have something molded and professionally made.
> >
> Just a warning about putting anything (like an LED) across where the fuse
> goes: I have a friend who put grain of wheat bulbs parallel to the fuse
> connections. The theory was that if a fuse blew, he would know which one
it
> was, because the light would come on. The problem? I had pulled the fuse
> to work on something (which would usually disconnect the item). There was
> enough residual current flowing through the bulb to the circuit to zap me
a
> bit.
> Dan Branstrom
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chad Robinson" <crobinson@rfgonline.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: fuses vs. CBs
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chad Robinson
> <crobinson@rfgonline.com>
> >
> > On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:49:46 -0600 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> > <bob.nuckolls@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> > > <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> > >
> > > At 01:21 AM 11/12/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chad Robinson
> > > ><crobinson@rfgonline.com>
> > > >
> > > > > Why would you want to add so much $time$ to a product that
> > > > > has about one chance in 1000 of ever doing something useful?
> > > > >
> > > > > Once you're past the development phase of your design and all
> > > > > construction faults and nuisance trips are fixed, it's quite
> > > > > likely that your airplane will run a lifetime and never open
> > > > > a fuse.
> > > >
> > > >Uhhhh, I don't. I asked for one pre-made. I'm asking for a fuse block
> > > >that has these suckers built in. If you read my original message I
> > > >said I didn't want to be the one doing this. I agree it's a waste of
> > > >time, and fuses with LEDs built in are overpriced and a waste of
> > > >money. =)
> > >
> > > I guess I don't understand . . . a fuse block with breakers built
> > > in?
> >
> > Ummm, maybe we're not on the same page here. I don't want breakers. I
hate
> breakers. I hate breakers almost as much as you do - I say almost because
> I'm not sure anybody really dislikes them THAT much. =)
> >
> > LEDs to show which fuse failed. That's what I want. I can do it myself
> with a small board next to the fuse block, I just don't want to. I'd
rather
> have something molded and professionally made.
> >
> > > >I love playing Devil's Advocate, so I'll bite. How about this for an
> > > >argument? It's nice information to have when your engine starts
> > > >cutting out on your third test flight that you can glance down and
> > > >see your fuel pump (EFI here) has blown a fuse, perhaps because you
> > > >DIDN'T fasten things down as well as you thought and a wire abraded
> > > >and shorted out. You sure as heck aren't going to reach down and try
> > > >to put in a new fuse- it blew for a reason. But you can also avoid
> > > >wasting time on trying an engine restart, which reduces your workload
> > > >somewhat. As long as you aren't overloading the pilot with
> > > >information (and you have to really LOOK to get this bit) having more
> > > >information available is often nice.
> > >
> > > Is this the one and only device that will provide adequate
> > > fuel flow to your engine? What do you do when THAT device quits?
> > > Or a wire comes unhooked? And, suppose you DID see that a fuse
> > > is blown, what is the likelihood that the next fuse you put in
> > > won't blow too?
> >
> > Nope, there are two fuel pumps. Actually, both are electric, so you just
> gave me another reason to justify this. Since I only actually require one,
> fuel pressure alone may not (will not) be sufficient to tell me a fuse has
> blown and thus one of the pumps is offline.
> >
> > > >In point of fact I don't actually want them but when curiosity gets
> > > >ahold of me I like to track things down. I don't know what the
> > > >weather's like by you, but it's 15 degrees outside here tonight, so
> > > >no plane building for me (unheated shop). In the winter, research is
> > > >all I can do.
> > >
> > > Its a good time to tidy up the shop sketches of your wiring
> > > into real nice pages for your finished wirebook too . . .
> >
> > Yeah. If I had any idea what instruments I was planning to use I'd do
> that. =) Seriously, Bob, I'm really on the very early side of things here,
> but I like to be as COMPLETELY informed as possible before I make a
> decision. For me, that means months of discussion and thinking before I
made
> a decision. I yam what I yam.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Curious Chad
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | LOC? - What's That? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is a directory of everyone's name that made
a Contribution during this year's List Fund Raiser. Its kind of my way of
publicly thanking everyone that so generously made a Contribution to
support the continued operation and upgrade of these Email Lists. This
year's List of Contributors is just around the corner; I'll be posting the
it on or about December 1.
Support your Lists today and make sure that your name is on the upcoming
LOC! Your friends will be checking, no doubt, to see if YOU make your
Contribution because THEY did! :-)
Support Contribution Info - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: fuses vs. CBs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Branstrom" <danbranstrom@verizon.net>
Thanks Phil,
In an early onset of Old-timers, I forgot about what a pain in the butt it
was to troubleshoot. Also, the grain of wheat bulbs burn out, rendering
them useless as blown fuse indicators.
Dan Branstrom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: fuses vs. CBs
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach"
<phil@petrasoft.net>
>
> The company that I work for puts blown fuse indicator type terminal blocks
> in the panels that we build as a matter of practice. Personally I hate
the
> things. They only give you useful information about half the time, and
they
> make troubleshooting the circuilt a nightmare. They make testing the
> circuit with a voltmeter all but impossible because there is ALWAYS
voltage
> downstream of the fuse, even when the fuse is blown. Another problem is
> that the circuit must have load on it for the indicator to work in the
first
> place. You can't just look at the indicators during pre-flight and get
any
> useful information because any circuit that is not turned on (lights,
> autopilot etc.) will not indicate a blown fuse anyway.
>
> I personally agree with Bob. If the device is necessary for flight check
> it's operation during the preflight (not the status of it's circuit
> protection device) and then fly comfortably.
>
> Godspeed,
>
> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
> http://www.myrv7.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Branstrom" <danbranstrom@verizon.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: fuses vs. CBs
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Branstrom"
> <danbranstrom@verizon.net>
> >
> > <snip>> LEDs to show which fuse failed. That's what I want. I can do it
> > myself with a small board next to the fuse block, I just don't want to.
> I'd
> > rather have something molded and professionally made.
> > >
> > Just a warning about putting anything (like an LED) across where the
fuse
> > goes: I have a friend who put grain of wheat bulbs parallel to the fuse
> > connections. The theory was that if a fuse blew, he would know which
one
> it
> > was, because the light would come on. The problem? I had pulled the
fuse
> > to work on something (which would usually disconnect the item). There
was
> > enough residual current flowing through the bulb to the circuit to zap
me
> a
> > bit.
> > Dan Branstrom
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chad Robinson" <crobinson@rfgonline.com>
> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: fuses vs. CBs
> >
> >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chad Robinson
> > <crobinson@rfgonline.com>
> > >
> > > On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 17:49:46 -0600 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> > > <bob.nuckolls@cox.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> > > > <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> > > >
> > > > At 01:21 AM 11/12/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chad Robinson
> > > > ><crobinson@rfgonline.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > > Why would you want to add so much $time$ to a product that
> > > > > > has about one chance in 1000 of ever doing something useful?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Once you're past the development phase of your design and all
> > > > > > construction faults and nuisance trips are fixed, it's quite
> > > > > > likely that your airplane will run a lifetime and never open
> > > > > > a fuse.
> > > > >
> > > > >Uhhhh, I don't. I asked for one pre-made. I'm asking for a fuse
block
> > > > >that has these suckers built in. If you read my original message I
> > > > >said I didn't want to be the one doing this. I agree it's a waste
of
> > > > >time, and fuses with LEDs built in are overpriced and a waste of
> > > > >money. =)
> > > >
> > > > I guess I don't understand . . . a fuse block with breakers built
> > > > in?
> > >
> > > Ummm, maybe we're not on the same page here. I don't want breakers. I
> hate
> > breakers. I hate breakers almost as much as you do - I say almost
because
> > I'm not sure anybody really dislikes them THAT much. =)
> > >
> > > LEDs to show which fuse failed. That's what I want. I can do it myself
> > with a small board next to the fuse block, I just don't want to. I'd
> rather
> > have something molded and professionally made.
> > >
> > > > >I love playing Devil's Advocate, so I'll bite. How about this for
an
> > > > >argument? It's nice information to have when your engine starts
> > > > >cutting out on your third test flight that you can glance down and
> > > > >see your fuel pump (EFI here) has blown a fuse, perhaps because you
> > > > >DIDN'T fasten things down as well as you thought and a wire abraded
> > > > >and shorted out. You sure as heck aren't going to reach down and
try
> > > > >to put in a new fuse- it blew for a reason. But you can also avoid
> > > > >wasting time on trying an engine restart, which reduces your
workload
> > > > >somewhat. As long as you aren't overloading the pilot with
> > > > >information (and you have to really LOOK to get this bit) having
more
> > > > >information available is often nice.
> > > >
> > > > Is this the one and only device that will provide adequate
> > > > fuel flow to your engine? What do you do when THAT device quits?
> > > > Or a wire comes unhooked? And, suppose you DID see that a fuse
> > > > is blown, what is the likelihood that the next fuse you put in
> > > > won't blow too?
> > >
> > > Nope, there are two fuel pumps. Actually, both are electric, so you
just
> > gave me another reason to justify this. Since I only actually require
one,
> > fuel pressure alone may not (will not) be sufficient to tell me a fuse
has
> > blown and thus one of the pumps is offline.
> > >
> > > > >In point of fact I don't actually want them but when curiosity gets
> > > > >ahold of me I like to track things down. I don't know what the
> > > > >weather's like by you, but it's 15 degrees outside here tonight, so
> > > > >no plane building for me (unheated shop). In the winter, research
is
> > > > >all I can do.
> > > >
> > > > Its a good time to tidy up the shop sketches of your wiring
> > > > into real nice pages for your finished wirebook too . . .
> > >
> > > Yeah. If I had any idea what instruments I was planning to use I'd do
> > that. =) Seriously, Bob, I'm really on the very early side of things
here,
> > but I like to be as COMPLETELY informed as possible before I make a
> > decision. For me, that means months of discussion and thinking before I
> made
> > a decision. I yam what I yam.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Curious Chad
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Cool schematic CAD program |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Gibson" <bgibson@scientech.com>
FWIW, I also appreciated all the work that Bob Nuckolls put into the
drawings for our benefit, but I'm one of these guys who feels morally
obligated to "own legal software." I purchased Intellicad 2000 for about
$250. and have found it fine. Reads/writes to most drawing formats, and
most of our work is "editing" existing electrical drawings anyway.
Bob Gibson
AA5 - N5826L
Clearwater Airpark (CLW)
Mobile 727.644.8361
Web www.geocities.com/n5826l
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Future replacement for Rotax |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:50 AM 11/18/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: klehman@albedo.net
>
>Is the John Deere rectifier/regulator any better (or different) than the
>Rotax/Ducati? They us it on a large PM alternator that is good for at
>least 20 amps.
>Ken
It could very well be. Do you have a part number and source for
this device. I'd consider buying one and testing it.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: fuses vs. CBs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chad Robinson <crobinson@rfgonline.com>
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:45:05 -0600 "Phil Birkelbach"
<phil@petrasoft.net> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach"
> <phil@petrasoft.net>
>
> The company that I work for puts blown fuse indicator type terminal
> blocks in the panels that we build as a matter of practice.
> Personally I hate the things. They only give you useful information
> about half the time, and they make troubleshooting the circuilt a
> nightmare. They make testing the circuit with a voltmeter all but
> impossible because there is ALWAYS voltage downstream of the fuse,
> even when the fuse is blown. Another problem is that the circuit must
> have load on it for the indicator to work in the first place. You
> can't just look at the indicators during pre-flight and get any useful
> information because any circuit that is not turned on (lights,
> autopilot etc.) will not indicate a blown fuse anyway.
True enough. I'm not asking for an always-on setup here. Ideally you would run
the LEDs only off the downstream side of the fuse, not parallel across them, and
tie their current limiting resistors to a common side of a momentary pushbutton
tied to ground. That way you could "push to test" just like any other device.
It's far better than having the LED active all the time, sourcing voltage
to the circuit. I'm not worried about the grain-o'-wheat issue because the current
is inherently limited, but it's still a concern.
Nonetheless, I maintain that this is useful information, and bemoan the fact that
nobody has created a rugged, commercial product. It adds almost no weight,
costs almost nothing, and really doesn't have much if any downside if it's done
properly. Saying you shouldn't do something just because you don't "really"
need to is stupid. Look, I track all the cars around me when I drive, so I know
where they are. I still turn my head when I change lanes. It's EXTREMELY unlikely
that there will be somebody there when I wasn't planning on it, but it's
saved me from exactly 1 accident in the last 10 years and that's good enough
for me to do it every darned time.
Regards,
Chad
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: fuses vs. CBs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:41 AM 11/18/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Branstrom"
><danbranstrom@verizon.net>
>
>Thanks Phil,
>In an early onset of Old-timers, I forgot about what a pain in the butt it
>was to troubleshoot. Also, the grain of wheat bulbs burn out, rendering
>them useless as blown fuse indicators.
A light bulb for blown fuse indicator will be illuminated
only if a fuse blows which means that as indicators, they're not
highly stressed and will probably do the job as well as
an LED. The major concern is return on investment for the
$time$ it takes to install them. The need to troubleshoot
is a rare event. Concerns about power availability are
even more rare and easy to confirm with or without a blown
fuse indicator.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Future replacement for Rotax |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> >
> >Is the John Deere rectifier/regulator any better (or different) than the
> >Rotax/Ducati? They us it on a large PM alternator that is good for at
> >least 20 amps.
> >Ken
>
> It could very well be. Do you have a part number and source for
> this device. I'd consider buying one and testing it.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob,
Out of curiosity, which tests should one perform to evaluate a particular
rectifier/regulator ?
By the way I understand my friend Jerome machined the necessary parts in
order to drive the test Rotax alternator mentioned earlier.
Regards,
Gilles
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Future replacement for Rotax |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Bob, about testing a John Deere PM alternator and regulator. Here's the
info I've looked up and shared with others. A look at one of these by you
would be a great thing. I've attached the spreadsheet as a pdf file to
this e-mail - but think attachments get stripped off. So, will copy and
paste here:
Output Alternator Regulator.......Weight....Remarks:
Amps....... P/N.................P/N...............LBS
20..........AM877557.... AM101406..........4
35......... AM877957.....AM101406......... 4? ....... Same alternator
with internal changes, uses same regulator
55......... AL81436........ AL65077..........................Regulator
is a flat pack on back of alternator body;
............................................................................
........Typically used on 6400L and 6500L Tractor for running with lights at
night
85.........
AL81437.........AL65077..........................Regulator-Has Overvoltage
protection (same P/N as 55amp)
85.........
AL78690.............?....................................Listed for 6400
series tractor, NO overvoltage protection
John Deere PM alternator info - researched at Deere dealer by David Carter
I'd like to use the 35 amp if can keep loads down enough for IFR & night
Otherwise, I'll probably use the 85 amp - I want a PM alternator. (RV-6
with Mazda rotary engine)
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Future replacement for Rotax
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee"
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> > >Is the John Deere rectifier/regulator any better (or different) than
the
> > >Rotax/Ducati? They us it on a large PM alternator that is good for at
> > >least 20 amps.
> > >Ken
> >
> > It could very well be. Do you have a part number and source for
> > this device. I'd consider buying one and testing it.
<<<<<<<!!!!!!
> >
> > Bob . . .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Future replacement for Rotax |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris <dave@davemorris.com>
Is this the one you're talking about?
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/dynamo.html
Dave Morris
At 03:17 PM 11/18/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 07:50 AM 11/18/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: klehman@albedo.net
> >
> >Is the John Deere rectifier/regulator any better (or different) than the
> >Rotax/Ducati? They us it on a large PM alternator that is good for at
> >least 20 amps.
> >Ken
>
> It could very well be. Do you have a part number and source for
> this device. I'd consider buying one and testing it.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Future replacement for Rotax |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:17 PM 11/18/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter"
><dcarter@datarecall.net>
>
>Bob, about testing a John Deere PM alternator and regulator. Here's the
>info I've looked up and shared with others. A look at one of these by you
>would be a great thing. I've attached the spreadsheet as a pdf file to
>this e-mail - but think attachments get stripped off. So, will copy and
>paste here:
The paste-up got scrambled quite a bit. Would you end the attachment
to be directly at bob.nuckolls@cox.net
Thanks!
> I'd like to use the 35 amp if can keep loads down enough for IFR & night
> Otherwise, I'll probably use the 85 amp - I want a PM alternator. (RV-6
>with Mazda rotary engine)
The largest IFR load I've run on an SE aircraft to date is
27A so it's conceivable that you could get by with a 35A
alternator.
Bob . . .
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Future replacement for Rotax |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:52 PM 11/18/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee"
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>
> > >
> > >Is the John Deere rectifier/regulator any better (or different) than the
> > >Rotax/Ducati? They us it on a large PM alternator that is good for at
> > >least 20 amps.
> > >Ken
> >
> > It could very well be. Do you have a part number and source for
> > this device. I'd consider buying one and testing it.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>Bob,
>
>Out of curiosity, which tests should one perform to evaluate a particular
>rectifier/regulator ?
I usually try to deduce some sense of thermal impedance
between internal semi-conductors and the case. This isn't
always possible but it can sometimes be done with fair
accuracy. Then I see what the case temperature does under
various loads and relate that back to junction temperatures
of power semiconductors within. This helps us judge how well
the designers did their homework and whether or not there's
any head-room in the design. There is NO headroom for cooling
in the Ducati regulator used on the Rotax. Mounting this regulator
with a blast-tube of cooling air is a good thing to do.
Bob . . .
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Future replacement for Rotax |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Bob, a question raised by your "various loads" phrase in the quoted e-mail
below:
I've heard that the PM alternator puts out max current for whatever rpm it
is turning, regardless of load, and that the regulator simply heat sinks all
the current not being used usefully.
So, if I was running at cruise rpm with a particular pulley and the PM
alternator was turning x rpm and putting out y amps, and if:
1) I was running minimum day, VFR electrical load, then the difference
(excess) would generate heat in the regulator and have to be "soaked" out to
someplace; and if:
2) I was running night IMC loads, then there would be LESS current for
the regulator to turn to heat.
I wonder if there is any significance to this phenomenon, i.e., if the use
of a PM alternator could be said to be "less fuel efficient" because it was
robbing the engine of all the hp it could possibly use up generating "max
current" - all the time.
- Maybe we'd have a lower load on the engine (via alternator belt)
using a std alternator where current output was controlled by field magic.
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Future replacement for Rotax
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 11:52 PM 11/18/2003 +0100, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee"
> ><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > >Is the John Deere rectifier/regulator any better (or different) than
the
> > > >Rotax/Ducati? They us it on a large PM alternator that is good for at
> > > >least 20 amps.
> > > >Ken
> > >
> > > It could very well be. Do you have a part number and source for
> > > this device. I'd consider buying one and testing it.
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >Out of curiosity, which tests should one perform to evaluate a particular
> >rectifier/regulator ?
>
> I usually try to deduce some sense of thermal impedance
> between internal semi-conductors and the case. This isn't
> always possible but it can sometimes be done with fair
> accuracy. Then I see what the case temperature does under
> various loads and relate that back to junction temperatures
> of power semiconductors within. This helps us judge how well
> the designers did their homework and whether or not there's
> any head-room in the design. There is NO headroom for cooling
> in the Ducati regulator used on the Rotax. Mounting this regulator
> with a blast-tube of cooling air is a good thing to do.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Cool schematic CAD program |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
For a list and reviews of various free CAD programs, see
http://www.freecad.com/dcd/CAD_Programs___General_Purpose/index-3.htm
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin,
Tennessee)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: F1Rocket@comcast.net
(snip)
>Just this past week, I downloaded TurboCAD LE, which is free.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Rgulator and heat |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
>
> I usually try to deduce some sense of thermal impedance
> between internal semi-conductors and the case.
> any head-room in the design. There is NO headroom for cooling
> in the Ducati regulator used on the Rotax. Mounting this regulator
> with a blast-tube of cooling air is a good thing to do.
Hello Bob,
this brings me to a point, I have mounted my LR-3 on the left hand side of
the foot room, about 1.5 ft from the floor, but my heating is blowing partly
on to the regulator (and believe me we need this heating here in
Switzerland), reading your posting would you think it would be a wise idea
to add a heat deflector to protect the regulator? Standard load VFR day is
around 12-17 A.
Thanks for the advice
Werner
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