Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:16 AM - Re: Dual voltage electrical system (David Swartzendruber)
2. 06:36 AM - Re: RV-List: AeroElectric Connection Seminar (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
3. 06:59 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 11/19/03 (RSamuelson@aol.com)
4. 07:07 AM - How to mount Ground Power Connector (Fergus Kyle)
5. 08:02 AM - Switch Availability (Tom Caruthers)
6. 08:22 AM - Re: How to mount Ground Power Connector (Brett Ferrell)
7. 09:04 AM - Re: Dual voltage electrical system (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 09:36 AM - Re: Dual voltage electrical system (David Swartzendruber)
9. 10:20 AM - Nashville TN seminar date set (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 10:43 AM - Re: Switch Availability (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 11:32 AM - Re: Starter Help (Jim Sower)
12. 11:48 AM - Starter Help (Fred Hollendorfer)
13. 02:25 PM - Z-11 details (geoffkim@pdq.net)
14. 02:46 PM - Re: 10945 quick (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 05:12 PM - Best place to order Honeywell MicroSwitch's? (Mitch Faatz)
16. 05:15 PM - Re: Starter Help (John Schroeder)
17. 06:01 PM - Re: Best place to order Honeywell MicroSwitch's? (Bruce Gray)
18. 06:22 PM - Re: Re: Dimmers (John Schroeder)
19. 07:14 PM - Re: Switch Availability (Benford2@aol.com)
20. 07:53 PM - AeroElectric Connection Seminar (j1j2h3@juno.com)
21. 08:37 PM - wiring Rotax 912S tach (Joa Harrison)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Dual voltage electrical system |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
A DC-DC converter that would work well would be the Astron N2412-12. It
is a 10A device, 12A surge, that gives a nice, clean 13.8V out. This is
the same unit that Cessna is using in the new singles to provide a 12V
accessory jack. I did a Google search and found a price of $51.
Dave Swartzendruber
Wichita
>
> I think I'd go with a DC-DC converter to step down
> 28v to 14v -AND- maintain a 14V battery. You need
> a battery that's robust enough to handle dynamic loads
> of hydraulic pump. l7 a.h. would be easy and cheap,
> there are some smaller ones that would take the beating
> in the 10 a.h. class but only saves you 5# or so.
>
>
> The DC to DC converter would only need to be good
> for 10A or so and is relatively small. About 2#
> I should think. Your 14V "system" should have a
> low-volts warning system but that should be all
> that's necessary in the way of instrumentation.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List: AeroElectric Connection Seminar |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Hi Bobby-
That's just 'cause we all went last January! Nuckolls really packed 'em in
last year and it was another of those "best $$$ spent on the plane" deals.
Highly recommended. People had flown in from as far away as LA (lower Alabama)
and Wisconsin.
As an aside, our 1st day seminar was on February 1, and as we went on our
first break that morning, Columbia was disintegrating over Texas. As sobering
as
this was, it was interesting to see how a roomful of aviation professionals
and fans absorbed and dealt with the event. Bob handled it graciously and
briefly, then continued to give us all our money's worth. If you go for no other
reason than to experience his dedication to educating others, then that's
reason enough. Hope you get a class arranged!
Mark - Columbia, TN do not archive
In a message dated 11/19/03 10:40:45 PM Central Standard Time,
bhester@hopkinsville.net writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
>
> Anyone wanting to attend a AeroElectric Connection Wiring Seminar near
> Nashville,TN please goto:
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars/Nashville.html and register. The
> date has not been set yet. I'm guessing because not enough people have
> signed up.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 11/19/03 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RSamuelson@aol.com
I recall seeing pictures on Dan Chekoway's RV7 website - <A HREF="www.rvproject.com">www.rvproject.com.
Scroll through his daily index to find the the right page.
Roy Samuelson
Message 4
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| Subject: | How to mount Ground Power Connector |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
">I followed Bob's excellent tutorial on modifying a Piper style ground
>power connector. My question now is, how are these usually mounted? It
>is certainly a big, clunky connector and my assumption is that it is
>somehow hidden behind a hinged cover. How have others mounted this?
>Does anybody have a picture/drawing of how it's done on Piper aircraft?
>I know, I could drive out to the airport and look but my assumption is
>that those that have gone before me have most likely improved on the
>Piper's approach."
I too have followed Bob's excellent instructions to produce a Ground Power
receptacle. I made several restrictions using what available experience
still sits on the brain storage area:
[1] Port side only as ground crew will always be in sight;
[2] Behind the wing if battery in back, ahead if forward (short lines);
[3] If forward, must be within reach of pilot since groundcrew would be too
near active prop; and if pilot-retrieved must somehow be returned to
storage without hitting live prop.
Cheers, Ferg
Message 5
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| Subject: | Switch Availability |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tom Caruthers <tomcaruthers@yahoo.com>
Hi All,
Does anyone know of a 3 pole, 2 position switch? I
would like to use a pair for mag switches. The third
circuit would be used to switch the p-leads for an
electronic tach.
Thanks in advance,
Tom
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: How to mount Ground Power Connector |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brett Ferrell" <bferrell@123mail.net>
I've installed the standard plug and cover (from ACS) under my nose where I
can see it from the cockpit, floxed flush with the outer skin. It's nice on
my Velocity since it's away from the prop, near the battery and the nose
tie-down, and I can see what they're doing. Follow the link below for a
picture - at the end of Section 13.3.1
http://www.velocityxl.com/Electrical.htm#Section 13.3 Electrical System
Completion
Brett
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: How to mount Ground Power Connector
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>
> ">I followed Bob's excellent tutorial on modifying a Piper style ground
> >power connector. My question now is, how are these usually mounted? It
> >is certainly a big, clunky connector and my assumption is that it is
> >somehow hidden behind a hinged cover. How have others mounted this?
> >Does anybody have a picture/drawing of how it's done on Piper aircraft?
> >I know, I could drive out to the airport and look but my assumption is
> >that those that have gone before me have most likely improved on the
> >Piper's approach."
>
> I too have followed Bob's excellent instructions to produce a Ground Power
> receptacle. I made several restrictions using what available experience
> still sits on the brain storage area:
> [1] Port side only as ground crew will always be in sight;
> [2] Behind the wing if battery in back, ahead if forward (short lines);
> [3] If forward, must be within reach of pilot since groundcrew would be
too
> near active prop; and if pilot-retrieved must somehow be returned
to
> storage without hitting live prop.
> Cheers, Ferg
Message 7
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| Subject: | Dual voltage electrical system |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:16 AM 11/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber"
><dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
>
>A DC-DC converter that would work well would be the Astron N2412-12. It
>is a 10A device, 12A surge, that gives a nice, clean 13.8V out. This is
>the same unit that Cessna is using in the new singles to provide a 12V
>accessory jack. I did a Google search and found a price of $51.
Dave, do you know how this critter will behave with a battery
across the output? Is there a need to disconnect the battery
from the converter if it's not powered up? I've been scratching
on a Z-figure example of how this could be done and my sense is
that a battery disconnect relay would be needed to float the
battery completely free when the airplane is parked.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Dual voltage electrical system |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
Bob,
I don't recall whether it was ever tested with a battery on it's output
or not. I suspect that it would do fine when powered up but may put a
small drain on the battery when turned off. Astron should have the
answers. Their website lists their phone number as 949-458-7277 and
email at eastron@astroncorp.com. They also have a 20A version that is
only one inch longer and 2 lbs instead of 1.5 lbs. I'll ask the person
I know that evaluated this unit and see what he can tell me.
Dave
"
> ><dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
> >
> >A DC-DC converter that would work well would be the Astron N2412-12.
It
> >is a 10A device, 12A surge, that gives a nice, clean 13.8V out. This
is
> >the same unit that Cessna is using in the new singles to provide a
12V
> >accessory jack. I did a Google search and found a price of $51.
>
> Dave, do you know how this critter will behave with a battery
> across the output? Is there a need to disconnect the battery
> from the converter if it's not powered up? I've been scratching
> on a Z-figure example of how this could be done and my sense is
> that a battery disconnect relay would be needed to float the
> battery completely free when the airplane is parked.
>
> Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Nashville TN seminar date set |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Just got off the phone with the very gracious lady who set up
our meeting room last year. May 1/2, 2004 is the date.
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Switch Availability |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:02 AM 11/20/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Tom Caruthers
><tomcaruthers@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi All,
>
>Does anyone know of a 3 pole, 2 position switch? I
>would like to use a pair for mag switches. The third
>circuit would be used to switch the p-leads for an
>electronic tach.
See Carling HM series switches at
https://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=648.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Starter Help |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Sower <canarder@frontiernet.net>
The technology you are trying to control is from the 1920's. That's how Henry
ran
his Model-T. Your mags come at us untouched from the early 1930's. The price
of a
[rebuilt] mag will buy you a nice electronic unit (from Electroair in TN or Light
Speed on the left coast) that drops right in the hole your mag occupies now. You
start with 0 deg advance and go on to about 35 deg. You get much higher quality
combustion, [credibly documented] up to 10% better fuel efficiency, [somewhat]
better
cruise speed, better static RPM. How long would it take with even a piddlin' 5%
increase in fuel economy to save $800 or so?
Not a bad trade IMO ... Jim S.
BAKEROCB@aol.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BAKEROCB@aol.com
>
> 11/19/2003
>
> Hello Electrical Types, I am seeking help in getting better engine starting
> and I'd like you to prescribe the gadget that will do it. Let me explain:
>
> I have a TCM (Teledyne Continental Motors) IO-240 B9B engine. It has a Unison
> Slick 4309 direct drive magneto on the right side with a normal running spark
> advance of 26 degrees before piston TDC (Top Dead Center). On the left side
> is a Slick 4310 magneto with normal running spark advance of 26 degrees before
> TDC and also retard breaker points. The retard breaker points retard the spark
> to near TDC for proper starting spark during cranking.
>
> The engine is started with only the left magneto ON and the high voltage,
> multiple pulse starting spark is provided through the retard breaker points by
a
> solid state Unison SlickStart starting vibrator. The 26 degrees before TDC
> spark from the normal running points in both magnetos is grounded out by the
> SlickStart vibrator while cranking.
>
> Presently the electrical source for the starting vibrator comes from the same
> starter contactor terminal that provides electrical power to the starter
> motor. When the starter button is released electrical power to both the starter
> motor and the starting vibrator ends instantly. It is important in this engine
> to release the starter button as soon as the engine initially fires rather than
> try to "help it along" until it is running "better". Starter gears get chewed
> up if one keeps the starter engaged for any period of time after the engine
> initially fires.
>
> But there is a brief period of time after the engine initially fires and
> before it starts running better when the engine could benefit from continued
high
> voltage multiple pulse retarded spark.
>
> So I want a gadget that I can wire into my starter button / starting
> contactor / starting vibrator / main bus circuitry such that it will activate
the
> starting vibrator at the instant that the starter button is pushed and keep
> supplying electricity to the vibrator , but not to the starter motor, for 2 or
3
> seconds after the starter button is released.
>
> I have heard terms such as "retard delay" thrown around in connection with
> the Bendx "Shower of Sparks" starting vibrator (an older mechanical competitor
> of the Unison SlickStart vibrator) so I think that the concept is valid and
> that such things exist, but they are deeply buried within the Bendix realm and
> not available to me.
>
> My request is that you point me at such a delay device so that I can purchase
> it.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - 11/17/03
>
--
Jim Sower
Crossville, TN; Chapter 5
Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fred Hollendorfer" <phredyh1@flica.net>
Hey OC....
From your description about the starting situation with the TCM I wonder
if you might not be able to do
something like they did on some radial engines (i.e. R2800s) years ago.
You had four switches that had to be operated with the left hand.
1) Thumb to operate the safety switch.
2) The middle finger to operate the starter.
3) (and this is the one that may come into play for you) the boost coil
for the magnetos operated
with the finger next to the pinky.
4) and finally the primer operated with the index finger.
With out going into great detail on how to start this monster, the boost
coil switch was used to give the mags a
little extra fire in the start process while the blades were turning
(after the mags were turned on). Once the engine caught all switches
were released except the primer until the mixture was was moved to auto
rich and ultimately to auto lean. My point here being that you might be
able to use an extra (spring loaded, normally off)) switch to keep the
starting vibrater alive a little longer in the start process. I would
also offer a caveat that this is probably not what TCM had in mind here
when they designed the system. I offer this info only because you may
have a unique situation that I'm not familiar with. Good luck...
Phoenix Phred
Fred Hollendorfer
Phoenix (on the road)
http://members.tripod.com/phredyh0/
Message 13
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: geoffkim@pdq.net
Bob,
I am planning my system according to Z-11. However, I am planning to
install electric Attitude indicator and DG on the e-bus (In addition to
what z-11 shows). A couple of simple-minded questions.
1- How do I find the current requirements (what they really draw) for the
items? (AH, DG, TC, Nav, Comm, Lights) I know they draw less power than
the fuse numbers indicate.
2- I am thinking I may need to increase the size of the wire and the fuse
which comes off the main battery bus through the alternate feed switch and
to the e-bus. How do I make this determination?
3- Why not run the wire from the main bus to the alternator field (through
the switch) through a fuse or breaker instead of a fuselink as shown in
the drawing?
Geoff Kimbrough
Katy, Texas
RV-8
PS - If any of you get the opportunity to attend one of Bob's seminars -
it is well worth the time. GK
Message 14
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:14 PM 11/20/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>paul quick (paulq@global.co.za) on Thursday, November 20, 2003 at 11:14:11
>
>Thursday, November 20, 2003
>
>paul quick
>
>,
>Email: paulq@global.co.za
>Comments/Questions: my master solenoid gets extreemly hot after just a
>short flight i bench checkd it with no load same thing put in new solenoid
>did the same.
These parts NORMALLY dissipate about 10 watts of heat. They normally run
too hot to touch but quite within temperature limits for materials
used in their construction.
> also maybe related after longish flight starter switch fails to swing
> prop until engine cools.starter solenoid is heard but no action. any
> ideas? thanx paul quick
Is there ANY motion of the prop? Does the starter draw current
but simply insufficient torque to push past compression? If
the prop doesn't move at all and the starter draws no current,
then there's a temperature related open circuit that clears
when it cools. If it's drawing current and simply delivering
insufficient torque, then the starter is probably too small
for the task.
Has it always behaved this way or is it a new condition?
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 15
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| Subject: | Best place to order Honeywell MicroSwitch's? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mitch Faatz" <mitchf@skybound.com>
Bob (and all),
Where is the best place to order Honeywell MicroSwitch's online? What vendors
are like McMaster-Carr in that they don't mind very small orders, ship fast, have
a good stock, etc. ???
Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Auburn, CA
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Starter Help |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Phred-
Man, did your description of starting the R-2800 ever bring back fond
memories. The crew chief on the AF birds had this duty, but as an old
fighter pilot who was used to doing things by myself, I reserved engine
starts for the aircraft commander. I had a lot of fun playing the piano
with these switches, and I'd usually win any bet with the chief that I
could start a hot one without any belches.
Thanks for the memories!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
John
Message 17
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| Subject: | Best place to order Honeywell MicroSwitch's? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glasair.org>
I bought mine through www.peerlesselectronics.com. Now the bad news,
nobody stocks these items. Mine had a 12 week lead time, so order extras
for spare parts. You don't want a bad master switch to ground you for 3
months.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mitch
Faatz
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Best place to order Honeywell MicroSwitch's?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mitch Faatz"
<mitchf@skybound.com>
Bob (and all),
Where is the best place to order Honeywell MicroSwitch's online? What
vendors are like McMaster-Carr in that they don't mind very small
orders, ship fast, have a good stock, etc. ???
Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Auburn, CA
Message 18
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Hi Fred -
Have you used these Carling dimmers with a series of LEDs? We'd like to be
able to use LED's for all of our interior lighting and a dimmer that can
handle LED's would be important.
Thanks,
John
> I've tested and installed into my new RV-6A a digital dimmer from
> Carling Technologies. It will easily switch 10A loads, has negligible
> heat output,
> is small, and only has three wires (Power, Ground, & Output).
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Switch Availability |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 11/20/2003 9:03:39 AM Mountain Standard Time,
tomcaruthers@yahoo.com writes:
> Hi All,
>
> Does anyone know of a 3 pole, 2 position switch? I
> would like to use a pair for mag switches. The third
> circuit would be used to switch the p-leads for an
> electronic tach.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Tom
Yup. Got one on my V- 8 all aluminum Ford 347. Cu in. I will go back in the
archives and look it up. Bob suggested one for doing the exact same thing and
it is in my toy..Ben Haas. N801BH.
Message 20
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| Subject: | AeroElectric Connection Seminar |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
If anyone needs a place to stay, send me an email off-line. I am located
at 589 Ploughman's Bend Drive, Franklin, TN. This is about 20 miles
south of Nashville, with easy access to I-65. I will be attending, so
can also provide transportation from my house. I have room for 3 people
or couples in separate bedrooms and 1 or 2 more on the sofa bed and couch
in the great room (more if you're good friends). First come, first
served.
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin,
Tennessee)
Do not archive
--> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
>Anyone wanting to attend a AeroElectric Connection Wiring Seminar near
>Nashville,TN please goto:
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars/Nashville.html and register.
Message 21
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| Subject: | wiring Rotax 912S tach |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joa Harrison <flyasuperseven@yahoo.com>
Bob,
Here's what Rans says regarding the wiring. What I need to know is if I use the
triple shielded wire what do I do with the shielding portion to prevent ground
loops and reduce noise? Do I only connect it to ground on one end (and which
end is preferred- engine or instrument) or do I leave it completely ungrounded?
Thanks.
Joa
For Rotax 912/912S engines
Connect (+) terminal to switched 12V
Connect (-) terminal to ground and a sender lead from engine
Connect (2) or (S) to other sender lead from engine
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