Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:59 AM - Subject: Re: Simple electronics question (Christopher J Fortin)
2. 01:42 AM - Another SLA question (Ian)
3. 05:31 AM - Re: Radio Shack Relays (Ralph E. Capen)
4. 06:10 AM - Stepper or other motors? (AI Nut)
5. 06:40 AM - Re: Another SLA question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:57 AM - Re: Re: Cabling (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:06 AM - Charging through Cig lighter (Don Boardman)
8. 07:15 AM - Re: Voltage Regulators (Boddicker)
9. 07:16 AM - Re: Another SLA question (Gilles.Thesee)
10. 09:22 AM - PTT Ground Wire Question (F1Rocket@comcast.net)
11. 10:37 AM - Re: PTT Ground Wire Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 10:48 AM - Re: Voltage Regulators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 01:36 PM - Re: Voltage Regulators (Boddicker)
14. 02:35 PM - Microphone Wiring questions (Brett Ferrell)
15. 02:42 PM - Re: Stepper or other motors? (Bob (Rocketboy))
16. 06:17 PM - Loadmeter wiring (Ross Mickey)
17. 08:45 PM - Re: Another SLA question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 08:47 PM - Re: Charging through Cig lighter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 11:37 PM - Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? (Michel RIAZUELO)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Simple electronics question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Christopher J Fortin <cjfortin@juno.com>
Phil,
Here is a link to the data sheets for the LM34. If you use figure 10 for
your OAT sensor, you can get away with a single ended supply.
www.national.com/an/AN/AN-460.pdf
Chris Fortin
N813CJ reserved
Do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Another SLA question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ian " <jabiru22@yahoo.com.au>
I want to make a 7AH 12V SLA battery charge from the car, what do I need
to regulate the charge, or will it only take what it needs? If I just
connect it to the power supply (13.8V) .
I.e. do I need to current limit or voltage limit the Little SLAV while
it is charging?
Thanks
Ian
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Shack Relays |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
I think the relays that you are referring to are similar to those sold by
digikey (at least the 4PDT's are). The base has metal clips that keep it in
place and the actual relay can be secured to the base with a bail (digi-key
part number z796-nd)...28 cents.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Ferrell" <bferrell@123mail.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Shack Relays
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brett Ferrell"
<bferrell@123mail.net>
>
> What's the best way to secure these Radio Shack Relays (275-218)? I've
picked up a few of these with the plug in bases for my speed brake control,
etc., and I was expecting the base to have some tabs to screw down to the
aircraft or something....
>
> Brett
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Stepper or other motors? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "AI Nut" <ainut@earthlink.net>
I'm looking for a solution for 2 or 3 axis autopilot, to be controlled
(initially) by a pc or laptop. Attitude information is already in the
computer. I assume that a stepper motor is my best solution but I can't
find one that can handle the 30 in-lbs that I've been told are needed.
If I can find one of the "regular" autopilot motors for a decent price, how
would I get feedback on it's position? That is, to set "home" for straight
and level flight, and etc.
Any ideas? This is for a Mustang II, a homebuilt.
Thanks,
AI Nut
Cost is *always* a consideration! 8-)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Another SLA question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:42 PM 12/11/2003 +1100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ian " <jabiru22@yahoo.com.au>
>
>
>I want to make a 7AH 12V SLA battery charge from the car, what do I need
>to regulate the charge, or will it only take what it needs? If I just
>connect it to the power supply (13.8V) .
>
>I.e. do I need to current limit or voltage limit the Little SLAV while
>it is charging?
Just plug it into the cigar lighter . . . it will charge
just fine. Of course, ONLY while the engine is running. I use
my bench supplies to charge batteries . . . 13.8 if you're going
to leave it connected for days. 14.5 if you'd like the battery
to top off in hours.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:12 PM 12/10/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Branstrom"
><danbranstrom@verizon.net>
>
>That wire was used in telephones from the handset to base and base to the
>wall. I have an old bakelite telephone that has that type of wire. It was
>actually crimped on to a connector that was then screwed to a terminal.
That's called "tinsel" wire. It's a copper foil wound around
a cotton thread core . . . VERY flexible, VERY resistant to
flexure breakage, VERY VERY difficult to work with.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Charging through Cig lighter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
>> I want to make a 7AH 12V SLA battery charge from the car, what do I need
>> to regulate the charge,
>
> Just plug it into the cigar lighter . . . it will charge
> just fine. Of course, ONLY while the engine is running. I use
> my bench supplies to charge batteries . . . 13.8 if you're going
> to leave it connected for days. 14.5 if you'd like the battery
> to top off in hours.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob will this route work in the opposite direction for my airplane? That is
use the cigar lighter or power outlet, as they are sometimes called today,
to charge the onboard 16 ah battery with a low amp or trickle charger
adapted to plug into the cigar lighter.
Thanks
Don B.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net>
on 12/9/03 10:14 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at bob.nuckolls@cox.net wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 09:07 AM 12/9/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net>
>>
>> Bob,
>> I read your book the first time.
>> Highlited the second time.
>> Why do you recomend against internal voltage regulators?
>> How would one remove the internal regulator.
>
> You can leave the regulator in, but add ov protection
> as shown in figure Z-24
>
> I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
> to continue this and similar discussions.
> Thanks!
>
> Bob . . .
>
I am on the list. That is how I sent this to you.
The reason I asked about your recomendation to take out the internal VR, is
that it looks to be easier to wire the whole package if I use the LRC3-14.
As opposed to the seperate parts listed in Z-24. Just trying to get an idea
why you have a distaste for the internal VR. Trying to justify the
additional cost.
Thanks,
Kevin
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Another SLA question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
. . . 13.8 if you're going
> to leave it connected for days. 14.5 if you'd like the battery
> to top off in hours.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob,
Your message makes me wonder. After perusing the specs of several battery
manufacturers it appears SLAs (RG batteries) need circa 13.8 V for floating
charge and 14.4 to 14.5 V for fast charging.
How come many rectifier/regulators supply only 13.8 or 14 V ? With this
voltage there's no chance to have one's battery fully recharged in flight.
Flight after flight the battery will sag.
Wouldn't it make sense to have the device supply 14.5 v ?
Or to have some smart device to automatically adjust the voltage by sensing
battery voltage and current draw ?
Thanks,
Gilles
Message 10
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| Subject: | PTT Ground Wire Question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: F1Rocket@comcast.net
Bob,
I wired my Ray Allen control stick per the instructions and after doing so, I realized
that the PTT switch shares its ground with the other microswitches in
the handle. That means that the trim switches, autopilot, and flap switches are
all grounded together.
In reviewing the wiring diagrams for the radios, I see that the PTT switch is usually
grounded directly to the headphone jacks and subsequently, through the
radio chassis.
Do you anticipate a noise problem in the PTT circuit with the way I have them grounded?
I'm just wondering how important this is. If I need to re-wire the
PTT switch, I'd rather do it now rather than after I'm flying. Thanks.
Randy
F1 Rocket
http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: PTT Ground Wire Question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:21 PM 12/11/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: F1Rocket@comcast.net
>
>Bob,
>
>I wired my Ray Allen control stick per the instructions and after doing
>so, I realized that the PTT switch shares its ground with the other
>microswitches in the handle. That means that the trim switches,
>autopilot, and flap switches are all grounded together.
>
>In reviewing the wiring diagrams for the radios, I see that the PTT switch
>is usually grounded directly to the headphone jacks and subsequently,
>through the radio chassis.
>
>Do you anticipate a noise problem in the PTT circuit with the way I have
>them grounded? I'm just wondering how important this is. If I need to
>re-wire the PTT switch, I'd rather do it now rather than after I'm
>flying. Thanks.
It will probably be fine. PTT circuits are not strong
potential antagonists or victims. Truck on . . .
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:20 AM 12/11/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net>
>
>on 12/9/03 10:14 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at bob.nuckolls@cox.net wrote:
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> > <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> > At 09:07 AM 12/9/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net>
> >>
> >> Bob,
> >> I read your book the first time.
> >> Highlited the second time.
> >> Why do you recomend against internal voltage regulators?
> >> How would one remove the internal regulator.
> >
> > You can leave the regulator in, but add ov protection
> > as shown in figure Z-24
> >
> > I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List
> > to continue this and similar discussions.
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
>I am on the list. That is how I sent this to you.
>The reason I asked about your recomendation to take out the internal VR, is
>that it looks to be easier to wire the whole package if I use the LRC3-14.
>As opposed to the seperate parts listed in Z-24. Just trying to get an idea
>why you have a distaste for the internal VR. Trying to justify the
>additional cost.
>Thanks,
Oops. I saw you were on the list right after I hit the "send" button.
I'd just answered a bunch of direct inquiries and was in that groove . . .
Not a "distaste" . . . you makes your choice and you adjust
architecture to accommodate. Internally regulated alternators
should have external ov protection re: Fig Z-24 -OR-
you take the regulator out and wire as shown in a variety
of alternative drawings.
Unless you're confident of your ability to remove the regulator
from your particular model of alternator, there is a risk that
you'll create more problems than you'll fix . . . but then,
nobody every said education was free . . . I had a builder
try to mod a junkyard ND alternator 3 times before he finally
bought one from B&C.
At one time, B&C used to do this mod for customer supplied
ND alternators . . . had to give it up when alternators
didn't last like B&C's new products . . . in spite of
customer perception of B&C holy-water having been sprinkled
on their junk yard refugee.
It all depends on how you want to spend your time
and what goals you have for understanding how
your machine is put together. It's easy to leave the regulator
in, wire per Z-24 and get your airplane flying. If you're
truly interested in mastering the techniques necessary for
a reliable modification, by all means go for it . . . but
unless your confidence level is very high, I'd suggest you
make this a winter time project for some point after your
airplane is flying.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Boddicker <trumanst@netins.net>
Thanks Bob. I was waiting to order the parts. Now I know which way to go.
on 12/11/03 12:48 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III at bob.nuckolls@cox.net wrote:
I'd suggest youmake this a winter time project for some point after your
airplane is flying.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Microphone Wiring questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brett Ferrell" <bferrell@123mail.net>
Bob/Others,
Two quick questions, in your microphone wiring diagram, the copilot's yellow wire
seem to be free-floating, is it in fact not used? Second, if you have an audio
panel that allows both pilot's to talk on different radios, such as the SL15,
how is the wiring different (or is the pilot side simply given priority)?
Thanks.
Brett
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Stepper or other motors? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob (Rocketboy)" <f1rocketboy@bellsouth.net>
You can buy a servo from Navaid devices. It has feedback built into it. Or
when you find the stepper you want, you will need to add either a absolute
optical encoder or a postion feedback pot. These send a signal back to the
computer as to control position. FWIW, some autopilots use only a motor with
no feedback such as the STEC series. They sense the aircraft movement as
feedback. This works well with slow moving servos.
So where are you getting you attitude reference?
Good luck!
Warmest Regards,
Bob Gross
For the latest F1 progress, click here..
www.F1-Rocketboy.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "AI Nut" <ainut@earthlink.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Stepper or other motors?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "AI Nut" <ainut@earthlink.net>
>
> I'm looking for a solution for 2 or 3 axis autopilot, to be controlled
> (initially) by a pc or laptop. Attitude information is already in the
> computer. I assume that a stepper motor is my best solution but I can't
> find one that can handle the 30 in-lbs that I've been told are needed.
>
> If I can find one of the "regular" autopilot motors for a decent price,
how
> would I get feedback on it's position? That is, to set "home" for
straight
> and level flight, and etc.
>
> Any ideas? This is for a Mustang II, a homebuilt.
>
> Thanks,
> AI Nut
> Cost is *always* a consideration! 8-)
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Loadmeter wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey@ix.netcom.com>
Bob,
Is there any chance that the wiring diagram that came with my loadmeter is
incorrect? The reason I ask is this.
The wiring diagram shows the Voltmeter hooked up to pins 4 and 5 and the
loadmeter to pins 1 and 3. When I put a ammeter accross pins 4 and 5 the
loadmeter needle moves and when I put the ammeter accross pins 4 and 5 the
voltmeter needle moves. This seems oppisite from the wiring diagram I have.
Ross
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Another SLA question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:15 PM 12/11/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee"
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>. . . 13.8 if you're going
> > to leave it connected for days. 14.5 if you'd like the battery
> > to top off in hours.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>Bob,
>
>Your message makes me wonder. After perusing the specs of several battery
>manufacturers it appears SLAs (RG batteries) need circa 13.8 V for floating
>charge and 14.4 to 14.5 V for fast charging.
How come many rectifier/regulators supply only 13.8 or 14 V ? With this
>voltage there's no chance to have one's battery fully recharged in flight.
>Flight after flight the battery will sag.
If your engine is well tuned, you'll use a very small percentage
of total battery capacity to get the engine started. A setting as
low as 13.8 WILL achieve 100% charge on a battery and for replacing
less than 10%, I can't imagine any flight not long enough to put
say 1.7 a.h. back into a battery.
>Wouldn't it make sense to have the device supply 14.5 v ?
>Or to have some smart device to automatically adjust the voltage by sensing
>battery voltage and current draw ?
You could do that. Most regulators on single engine aircraft
are set for 14.0 to 14.5 volts. I you've got a rotax 912, it
seems that you can boost the rectifier/regulator's set-point by
adding a small resistance in series with the sense lead "C".
But unless you've got a really beat-down battery, a setting
of 13.8 shouldn't be a big problem.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Charging through Cig lighter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:08 AM 12/11/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
>
> >> I want to make a 7AH 12V SLA battery charge from the car, what do I need
> >> to regulate the charge,
> >
> > Just plug it into the cigar lighter . . . it will charge
> > just fine. Of course, ONLY while the engine is running. I use
> > my bench supplies to charge batteries . . . 13.8 if you're going
> > to leave it connected for days. 14.5 if you'd like the battery
> > to top off in hours.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>Bob will this route work in the opposite direction for my airplane? That is
>use the cigar lighter or power outlet, as they are sometimes called today,
>to charge the onboard 16 ah battery with a low amp or trickle charger
>adapted to plug into the cigar lighter.
The cigar lighter style super-ugly-power-jack is usually only
connected while the battery master is closed. This means you
power up the airplane to charge the battery. Better to added
a dedicated battery charging jack to the aircraft that bypasses
the battery master. You can tie it right to a battery bus fuse
slot.
Bob . . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michel RIAZUELO" <mt.riazuelo@wanadoo.fr>
Hi all,
I will use MGL Avionics instruments "Smart Single" line ( http://www.lightflying.com.au/Stratomaster%20Pages/Smart%20Singles.htm ).
Wiring diagram always indicate a Transorb 33V protection device witch seems to
work like the OVM. See
http://www.lightflying.com.au/Stratomaster%20Manuals/Transorb%20power%20supply%20surge%20protection.doc for details.
Who had heard about that ?
Does it be redundant with OVM ?
Thanks,
Michel RIAZUELO
MCR SPORTSTER in progress ....
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