---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/12/03: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:08 AM - Re: Another SLA question (Gilles.Thesee) 2. 04:47 AM - tach output converter (Mark Means) 3. 05:21 AM - Re: tach output converter (Trampas) 4. 05:40 AM - Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? (Eric M. Jones) 5. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: Transponder coax choice (f1rocket@telus.net) 6. 09:04 AM - Fw: NavAid for sale (Richard@riley.net) 7. 09:43 AM - MicroAir 760 + Navaid AP-1 + PTT Defeat problem (James Redmon) 8. 11:20 AM - Re: MicroAir 760 + Navaid AP-1 + PTT Defeat problem (Bob (Rocketboy)) 9. 05:01 PM - Com antenna ground plane (Dan O'Brien) 10. 05:33 PM - Ray Allen Stick Grips (BAKEROCB@aol.com) 11. 07:55 PM - Re: Com antenna ground plane (Dave Morris) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:21 AM PST US From: "Gilles.Thesee" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Another SLA question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee" ----- Message d'origine ----- De : "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" : Envoy : vendredi 12 dcembre 2003 05:45 Objet : Re: AeroElectric-List: Another SLA question > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 04:15 PM 12/11/2003 +0100, you wrote: > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gilles.Thesee" > > > > > >. . . 13.8 if you're going > > > to leave it connected for days. 14.5 if you'd like the battery > > > to top off in hours. > > > > > > Bob . . . > > > >Bob, > > > >Your message makes me wonder. After perusing the specs of several battery > >manufacturers it appears SLAs (RG batteries) need circa 13.8 V for floating > >charge and 14.4 to 14.5 V for fast charging. > > How come many rectifier/regulators supply only 13.8 or 14 V ? With this > >voltage there's no chance to have one's battery fully recharged in flight. > >Flight after flight the battery will sag. > > If your engine is well tuned, you'll use a very small percentage > of total battery capacity to get the engine started. A setting as > low as 13.8 WILL achieve 100% charge on a battery and for replacing > less than 10%, I can't imagine any flight not long enough to put > say 1.7 a.h. back into a battery. > > >Wouldn't it make sense to have the device supply 14.5 v ? > >Or to have some smart device to automatically adjust the voltage by sensing > >battery voltage and current draw ? > > You could do that. Most regulators on single engine aircraft > are set for 14.0 to 14.5 volts. I you've got a rotax 912, it > seems that you can boost the rectifier/regulator's set-point by > adding a small resistance in series with the sense lead "C". > But unless you've got a really beat-down battery, a setting > of 13.8 shouldn't be a big problem. Bob, Thank you. Gilles ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:43 AM PST US From: "Mark Means" Subject: AeroElectric-List: tach output converter --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Means" Gentlemen, As I seem to have exhausted the knowledge or willingness of the manufacturers to help me I am throwing this out to you: I have a V8 autoconversion (LS1) which has individual coils for each cylinder driven by two aftermarket Haltech computers (one per 4 cylinders). There is a "tach output" from the computer which is 5V square wave. This apparently has been a problem as new generations of these computers have a 5/12v option (which mine does not ). The Grand Rapids engine monitor will not read the 5v signal and the owner tells me it needs to be 12v. What I am looking for is a simple circuit to convert this 5v pulsed signal to 12v with the same pulses. I have built a few simple Radio Shack circuits but really don't have a good background in electronics. Soooo, if someone knows how to solve make a circuit as described please don't just say "yea, no problem, just use a xxxx12002" cuz I won't know what you're talking about. If you can send me a schematic or detailed description or a place to look that would be great. I realize that there are "tach adaptors" out there. Autometer makes one but it has to be spliced into a coil wiring and they weren't sure it would work) I also have heard about inductive pickups to put on a spark plug wire but can't find a source. This would be the simple solution if anyone knows where I can get one. Thanks. Mark Means ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:32 AM PST US From: "Trampas" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: tach output converter --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Trampas" Mark, It is a pretty simple circuit, see enclosed picture. Basically the input pin is connected to a NPN transistor. When the input pin gets over 1V on input the transistor turns on and the output pin goes to 0V. When the input pin is at 0V then the output pin is at 12V, as the transistor is off. Regards, Trampas Stern -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Means Subject: AeroElectric-List: tach output converter --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Means" Gentlemen, As I seem to have exhausted the knowledge or willingness of the manufacturers to help me I am throwing this out to you: I have a V8 autoconversion (LS1) which has individual coils for each cylinder driven by two aftermarket Haltech computers (one per 4 cylinders). There is a "tach output" from the computer which is 5V square wave. This apparently has been a problem as new generations of these computers have a 5/12v option (which mine does not ). The Grand Rapids engine monitor will not read the 5v signal and the owner tells me it needs to be 12v. What I am looking for is a simple circuit to convert this 5v pulsed signal to 12v with the same pulses. I have built a few simple Radio Shack circuits but really don't have a good background in electronics. Soooo, if someone knows how to solve make a circuit as described please don't just say "yea, no problem, just use a xxxx12002" cuz I won't know what you're talking about. If you can send me a schematic or detailed description or a place to look that would be great. I realize that there are "tach adaptors" out there. Autometer makes one but it has to be spliced into a coil wiring and they weren't sure it would work) I also have heard about inductive pickups to put on a spark plug wire but can't find a source. This would be the simple solution if anyone knows where I can get one. Thanks. Mark Means ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:18 AM PST US From: "Eric M. Jones" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michel RIAZUELO" >Wiring diagram always indicate a Transorb 33V protection device witch seems to >work like the OVM. >Who had heard about that ? >Does it be redundant with OVM ? >Thanks, Michel RIAZUELO Michel, The Transorbs and similar devices are best considered useful for shorter transients. The OVM is best for overvoltage conditions that are either long or permanent like a failed regulator. One key feature of the OVM is that it can monitor the voltage on one circuit (like the main bus) and if it goes too high, the OVM can trip the circuit protection device on another circuit (like the alternator field). The Transorb can't do that without help. Nusiance tripping of the OVM could often be cured by a Transorb. A Transorb before the input of expensive electronics is a good idea, and most expensive electronics has a Transorb or something quite similar inside it already. Regards, Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge MA 01550-2705 Phone (508) 764-2072 Email: emjones@charter.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:41 AM PST US From: f1rocket@telus.net Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Transponder coax choice --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@telus.net Would the RG-400 or RG-142B(I'm guessing B because you mention FEP) good for the VHF (nav/comm) as well? Jeff Quoting "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" : > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > > >Dear Bob: > > > >I am building a Rans S6S. My avionics include an ICOM transceiver and a > >King Mode C transponder. The antennas are about 12 feet from the panel. >Do > you think it is OK for me to use RG 58U feed line or should I go to a >lower > loss variety? > > Loss isn't the biggest issue. RG-58 is a WWII veteran that > needs to be retired. Its materials and design are of that > era (single layer tinned braid, polyethylene inner insulation, > PVC outer insulation. Modern coax like RG-400 or RG-142 will > have double outer conductor that is silver plated, outer > insulation of FEP and inner insulation of PTFE . . . both > are modern, high temperature chemical resistant materials. > A side benefit is lower loss but superior materials and > construction is what you're really looking for. > > > I will invite you to join us on the AeroElectric List > to continue this and similar discussions. It's useful to > share the information with as many folks as possible. > A further benefit can be realized with membership on > the list. There are lots of technically capable folks > on the list who can offer suggestions too. You can > join at . . . > > http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/ > > Thanks! > > Bob . . . > > -------------------------------------------- > ( Knowing about a thing is different than ) > ( understanding it. One can know a lot ) > ( and still understand nothing. ) > ( C.F. Kettering ) > -------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:13 AM PST US From: Richard@riley.net Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fwd: NavAid for sale --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard@Riley.net Reposted from the Velocity mailing list, because I think there might be a market for this here... Don't contact me, this is Nolan's. ====================================== Gentlemen, I have an unused, never installed Navaid AP with Porcines's Smart Coupler II that I will let go for a paltry $1200. Nolan Frederick nvincent@idcomm.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:44 AM PST US From: "James Redmon" Subject: AeroElectric-List: MicroAir 760 + Navaid AP-1 + PTT Defeat problem --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" Anyone else using this combination with a PTT defeat input as suggested in the AP-1 wiring diagram? I'm curious if the diode that is shown in the diagram between the Com and the PTT switch is required. I have bench tested (without the NavAid unit installed) this wiring method on the bench with my Com1 (iCom A200) and the Com2 (MicroAir 760) and have run into a problem. With the diode installed, the 760 will not key up when the PTT is dropped to ground. The iCom unit works just fine with this arrangement. I suspect the 760 uses a solid state relay and is not compatible with the extra diode in-line with the PTT ground. If someone else has encountered this too, please let me know how you dealt with it. At this moment, I plan to eliminate the diode. It should work fine, in theory. To clarify, I am definitely going to include the PTT defeat line for the AP-1 so that transmits do not interfere with autopilot functions. The real question is simply - can this be done with the same PTT "take-off" line hook-up to the AP-1, but WITHOUT the installation of a diode between the Com and the PTT switch and ground. Remember, the diode is in front of the radio's PTT line, not the autopilot just as depicted in the AP-1 wiring diagram. This "keying" problem is only shown in the MicroAir radio, as the other iCom works just fine with the diode between it and the PTT ground. Both radios also key properly without the diode installed (verifies that the PTT circuits themselves are correct). So, the only variable is the diode itself. Both tests were run without the AP-1 installed, it's function is not in question - only the inability to "key" the MicroAir 760 with a diode in-between it and PTT ground seems to be an issue. Ideas? James Redmon Berkut #013 N97TX www.berkut13.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:20:10 AM PST US From: "Bob (Rocketboy)" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: MicroAir 760 + Navaid AP-1 + PTT Defeat problem --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob (Rocketboy)" I'm using a 760 with a navid A/P with no diode and no problems (other than the crappy T2000 transponders endless problems). Warmest Regards, Bob Gross For the latest F1 progress, click here.. www.F1-Rocketboy.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Redmon" Subject: AeroElectric-List: MicroAir 760 + Navaid AP-1 + PTT Defeat problem > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" > > Anyone else using this combination with a PTT defeat input as suggested in > the AP-1 wiring diagram? > > I'm curious if the diode that is shown in the diagram between the Com and > the PTT switch is required. I have bench tested (without the NavAid unit > installed) this wiring method on the bench with my Com1 (iCom A200) and the > Com2 (MicroAir 760) and have run into a problem. With the diode installed, > the 760 will not key up when the PTT is dropped to ground. The iCom unit > works just fine with this arrangement. I suspect the 760 uses a solid state > relay and is not compatible with the extra diode in-line with the PTT > ground. > > If someone else has encountered this too, please let me know how you dealt > with it. At this moment, I plan to eliminate the diode. It should work > fine, in theory. > > To clarify, I am definitely going to include the PTT defeat line for the > AP-1 so that transmits do not interfere with autopilot functions. The real > question is simply - can this be done with the same PTT "take-off" line > hook-up to the AP-1, but WITHOUT the installation of a diode between the Com > and the PTT switch and ground. Remember, the diode is in front of the > radio's PTT line, not the autopilot just as depicted in the AP-1 wiring > diagram. > > This "keying" problem is only shown in the MicroAir radio, as the other iCom > works just fine with the diode between it and the PTT ground. Both radios > also key properly without the diode installed (verifies that the PTT > circuits themselves are correct). > > So, the only variable is the diode itself. Both tests were run without the > AP-1 installed, it's function is not in question - only the inability to > "key" the MicroAir 760 with a diode in-between it and PTT ground seems to be > an issue. > > Ideas? > > James Redmon > Berkut #013 N97TX > www.berkut13.com > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:01:57 PM PST US From: "Dan O'Brien" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Com antenna ground plane --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan O'Brien" I have an external Comant com antenna that I originally thought would go on the outside of my Lancair ES (fiberglass). I'd like to put it inside for asthetics. I have a little shelf on the side of fuselage aft of the baggage compartment that would be a convenient place to mount it. Can I mount it there and have the ground plane (say strips of copper tape) on one side of the antenna run up or down the side of the fuselage? Or does it need to be mounted closer to the center line of the tail so that the ground plane is to parallel with mother earth on all sides of the antenna? Thanks, Dan O'Brien Lancair ES ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:45 PM PST US From: BAKEROCB@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ray Allen Stick Grips --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BAKEROCB@aol.com AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: F1Rocket@comcast.net << Bob, I wired my Ray Allen control stick per the instructions and after doing so, I realized that the PTT switch shares its ground with the other microswitches in the handle. That means that the trim switches, autopilot, and flap switches are all grounded together. In reviewing the wiring diagrams for the radios, I see that the PTT switch is usually grounded directly to the headphone jacks and subsequently, through the radio chassis. Do you anticipate a noise problem in the PTT circuit with the way I have them grounded? I'm just wondering how important this is. If I need to re-wire the PTT switch, I'd rather do it now rather than after I'm flying. Thanks. Randy F1 Rocket http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/ >> 12/12/2003 Hello Randy, There is a "gotcha" lurking in those Ray Allen (formerly MAC) stick grips. The head of the grip containing the buttons and wiring fits down into the cylindrical foam rubber hand gripping surface. This foam rubber grip surrounds either the metal control stick itself or a cylinder shaped plastic spacer installed to accommodate different diameters of metal control sticks. This means that the wiring and contacts on the bottom of the grip head can come in direct contact with the exposed top of the metal control stick. When this happens you can wind up with a constantly keyed radio transmitter (stuck mike) or other adverse happenings when electrical contact is made when no contact is intended or desired. Shielding the top of the metal control stick with a small disc of plastic or other insulating material should avoid the problem. 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - 11/17/03 PS: While we are on the subject of Ray Allen / MAC products I should point out that both my LED pitch trim indicator and 8A servo have proven to be unsatisfactory. I've had to bypass the indicator from my trim circuit because it kept popping the trim circuit breaker (1 amp) and also the in line 1 amp fuse that I used to trouble shoot the system. The 8A servo had symptoms of A) Much stronger in one direction that the other. B) It would reach one of the end limits and then not reverse direction unless I got to the servo and wiggled the output drive shaft. C) If the servo became over loaded and stopped in mid run, when the over load was removed the servo would not start moving again until I got to the servo and wiggled the output drive shaft. Another local builder experienced similar type problems with his servo, but claims now to have solved those problems by opening up the servo and regluing some tiny contact switches inside. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:45 PM PST US From: Dave Morris Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Com antenna ground plane --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris Ideally, the ground plane should be at a 90 degree or larger angle to the radiating element. If the angle is less, it will change the impedance and thus the SWR. It's not catastrophic, but may affect the range you get and in an extreme case, might reduce the power output, if the transmitter has high SWR protection. Better to reduce 4 ground plane foils down to 3 rather than to fold the one 4th one back onto the whip. Dave Morris N5UP At 07:01 PM 12/12/2003, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan O'Brien" > >I have an external Comant com antenna that I originally thought would go on >the outside of my Lancair ES (fiberglass). I'd like to put it inside for >asthetics. I have a little shelf on the side of fuselage aft of the >baggage compartment that would be a convenient place to mount it. Can I >mount it there and have the ground plane (say strips of copper tape) on one >side of the antenna run up or down the side of the fuselage? Or does it >need to be mounted closer to the center line of the tail so that the ground >plane is to parallel with mother earth on all sides of the antenna? > >Thanks, >Dan O'Brien >Lancair ES > >