Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:17 AM - Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? (Michel RIAZUELO)
2. 07:59 AM - Re: Stereo (not really) intercoms (James E. Clark)
3. 08:24 AM - A few simple questions (RSamuelson@aol.com)
4. 08:50 AM - Re: Stereo (not really) intercoms (Larry Bowen)
5. 09:36 AM - Re: Loadmeter Wiring (Ross Mickey)
6. 11:50 AM - Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? (Eric M. Jones)
7. 12:48 PM - Stereo Headset Jacks. Where? (Larry Bowen)
8. 02:51 PM - tach output (Mark Means)
9. 03:19 PM - Re: Stereo Headset Jacks. Where? (Darwin N. Barrie)
10. 04:31 PM - Re: Radio Shack Relays (J. Oberst)
11. 05:20 PM - Narco Escort II and PMA4000 compatable? (Jeff Orear)
12. 06:12 PM - Fw: Dead mike (Curtis Jaussi)
13. 06:24 PM - Narco Escort II question clarification (Jeff Orear)
14. 06:52 PM - Re: Dead mike (James Redmon)
15. 06:53 PM - KI-204 lighting? (James Redmon)
16. 07:11 PM - Re: Stereo Headset Jacks. Where? (Phil Collins)
17. 07:47 PM - Re: Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? (Dan Checkoway)
18. 07:49 PM - Re: Loadmeter Wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 07:55 PM - Re: A few simple questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 08:12 PM - Re: stereo headphone jacks (Dan Checkoway)
21. 08:47 PM - Re: Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 09:06 PM - Ray Allen Stick Grips (BAKEROCB@aol.com)
23. 09:06 PM - Re: Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 09:07 PM - GMA-340 installation manual (Dan Checkoway)
25. 09:14 PM - Re: KI-204 lighting? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 09:49 PM - Re: GMA-340 installation manual ('Scott Richardson')
27. 10:07 PM - Re: KI-204 lighting? (James Redmon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michel RIAZUELO" <mt.riazuelo@wanadoo.fr>
Bob,
In conclusion of you very complete and precise answer ( as you usualy do ...) you
write :
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 9:33 PM
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ?
>If someone ever produces data on a repeatable
>experiment wherein we can identify and justify
>the need for such devices in our airplanes, you
>can "bet your sweet bippy" that they'll show up
>in the Z-Figures in short order. Until that time
>folks, please view articles suggesting such devices
>with caution . . . let's talk about it first before
>you sprinkle your system with flooby-dust.
>Bob . . .
I do not have any more a problem to know WHERE to put the TRANSORB to protect 5
or 6 instruments.!
Many thanks,
Michel RIAZUELO
Message 2
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| Subject: | Stereo (not really) intercoms |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
[snip]
> I have a NAT AA80-001 intercom I'm trying to wire to my RV8. It seems
> that this intercom (as well as a few others I've researched) accept
> stereo input -- but have mono output. What's the point of that?! I
Keep in mind there are plenty intercoms that do work in stereo throughout if
you want stereo. If you plan to listen to music, it just might be worth the
couple of hundred dollars now rather than wishing you had later. Just a
thought.
James
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | A few simple questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RSamuelson@aol.com
Building an RV7A and just starting the electric systems. I am using the Van's
starter solenoid and master relay, following Figure Z13.
Is the Diode included in the starter contactor as shown in Fig Z13?
Is the Diode NOT included in the Master Relay? If not, what item to order
from B&C?
Is the Volage Regulator shown in the upper right of Fig Z13 included in the
SD8 Alternator? If not, what item to order?
Thanks for the help
Roy Samuelson
Message 4
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| Subject: | Stereo (not really) intercoms |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Yes, and I am studying my options with the full stereo intercoms.
The whole thing just perturbs me a little bit. The slick marketing guy
sells something with "stereo input", so naive customer (played by yours
truly) buys it only to find out the stereo is downgraded to mono on the
output end. Just seems underhanded to me. What other reason would
there be to do it that way?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
> --> <james@nextupventures.com>
>
>
> [snip]
>
> > I have a NAT AA80-001 intercom I'm trying to wire to my
> RV8. It seems
> > that this intercom (as well as a few others I've researched) accept
> > stereo input -- but have mono output. What's the point of that?! I
>
>
> Keep in mind there are plenty intercoms that do work in
> stereo throughout if you want stereo. If you plan to listen
> to music, it just might be worth the couple of hundred
> dollars now rather than wishing you had later. Just a thought.
>
> James
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Loadmeter Wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey@ix.netcom.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Loadmeter Wiring
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey"
<rmickey@ix.netcom.com>
>
> > do you mean ohmmeter?
>
Yes.
>
> > Are you sure you're not confusing the needles? See
> >
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/loadvolt.jpg
> >
>
No, I am not confusing the needles. The needle located on the right that
indicates load on the left moves when I put the ohmmeter accross pins 4 and
5. I did this about 6 times because I know it didn't look right. The only
reason I checked it is because I have gone over all of my wiring 4-5 times
and can't find anything wrong. When I installed it as per the wiring
diagram, the voltmeter appears to work but the loadmeter doesn't move.
Could this occur if the instrument is wired backward internally?
Ross
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Dear Bob,
In my humble opinion you are far too critical of the use of Transorbs in
aircraft wiring systems.
The use of many electronic components is merely a cheap insurance policy
against what may (or may not) be low probablility events. The increasing use
of data busses and electronics in general presumes a move to electrically
quieter environments.
Although much of this can be calculated and engineered, it is often true
that long term operational reliability is achieved merely by the application
of "Good Engineering Practices". To argue that there is no proof that
such-and-such is necessary seems too harsh. Much is simply unknown. If I had
a choice of planting a Transorb at the inputs to my $10k aviation gizmo or
not, and you say it's probably unnecessary....give me the Transorb.
You criticise the choice of 33V Transorbs. These may have been picked for
28V aircraft, however being too picky about the exact voltage ignores the
rate of rise and the nature of the EMI. Transorbs are not used for DC
overvoltages. In most EMI systems suppressors are "stacked" with some high
frequency, some low frequency, some for surges, some for big pulses of short
duration...etc.
----For any measurement system some EMI will be invisible. Years ago an 8051
used in a control application suddenly stopped working. The problem was
traced to the fact that the chip manufacturer had shrunk the die size. Now
the part was 100X as susceptible to EMI.
>But designing a system for lightning survivability is simply outside the
realm of operation for 99.99% >of light aircraft missions . . .
----Lightning protection? Why not? Big aircraft on average are hit once a
year. Of course there is always the lightning bolt that can't be stopped.
Some places like Florida have plenty of lightning and are particular
bountiful for avionics repair shops---coincidence? Like a cow disposed
radially to a lightning-struck tree---you don't have to be hit to be hurt.
>They advocate putting a Transorb on every potential
>victim device. In a small aircraft where the bus
>is located within a few feet of each device, a SINGLE
>Transorb on the bus to a low impedance ground would
>suffice to protect all devices in the aircraft.
An EMI pulse might travel 5 feet in the time it takes a Transorb to trip.
Cheapo insurance.
> If someone ever produces data on a repeatable experiment wherein we can
identify and justify
> the need for such devices in our airplanes, you can "bet your sweet bippy"
that they'll show up
> in the Z-Figures in short order. Until that time folks, please view
articles suggesting such devices
> with caution . . . let's talk about it first before you sprinkle your
system with flooby-dust.
To err on the side of caution with a sprinkle of flooby-dust (but not be
too crazy about it)....that's cheap insurance.
A great power supply designer--Alan Cocconi--once put dabs of grease in the
corners of the boxes of his new designs. When asked why, he said, "I figure
there's probably a loose piece of wire or solder somewhere...and I just want
to make sure I know where it's going to wind up."
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Message 7
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| Subject: | Stereo Headset Jacks. Where? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I don't see stereo headset jacks for sale on Bob's/B&C's website. Am I
right or misunderstanding something?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Do not archive
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Means" <rgvelocity@lmf.net>
Just wanted to let everyone know that Trampas sent a 5v-12v converter circuit that
appears to work on the testing board. Thanks.
Do not archive.
Mark
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Stereo Headset Jacks. Where? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
Theirs are mono, I just called them the other day. I think Spruce has the
stereo versions.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Stereo Headset Jacks. Where?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
<Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> I don't see stereo headset jacks for sale on Bob's/B&C's website. Am I
> right or misunderstanding something?
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Radio Shack Relays |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "J. Oberst" <joberst@cox-internet.com>
Brett, I've used these relays in a circuit to control trim, flaps, and other
things. They've worked well so far. I have 8 of them plugged into the
plastic receptacles that others have mentioned. But I don't believe the
wire spring clips are sturdy enough to stand up to an airplane's vibration
environment.
What I did is mount the receptacles to a fiberglass board, and wire the pins
on the back of the board. I then plugged in the relays, and placed an
identical board on top of the relays. I then ran two long bolts through the
two boards to hold them together, with the relays sandwiched safely between.
I suggest you do something like this to secure your relays.
Jim Oberst
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Ferrell" <bferrell@123mail.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Shack Relays
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brett Ferrell"
<bferrell@123mail.net>
>
> What's the best way to secure these Radio Shack Relays (275-218)? I've
picked up a few of these with the plug in bases for my speed brake control,
etc., and I was expecting the base to have some tabs to screw down to the
aircraft or something....
>
> Brett
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Narco Escort II and PMA4000 compatable? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" <jorear@new.rr.com>
List:
I apologize if this question is too specific, but I am trying to plan my panel
and I am wondering if I will be able to use a Narco Escort II with a PS Engineering
PMA 4000 intercom.
I am electrically challenged and I have been trying to figure out the installation
manuals for each unit. Will I be able to listen to the Nav side of the Narco
unit, yet transmit on my Icom Com radio? Should I connect the Narco unit
to the PMA 4000 as another com radio, or should I connect it as if it was just
a Nav radio?
All I want the Narco for is to be able to listen to the VOR transmitted on a Nav
frequency at my airport, and also to listen to FSS in my area. Primary navigation
will be via GPS and reading a sectional map.
Thanks in advance folks. I plan to attend a Sportair workshop on wiring and avionics
in January, but would like to get this issue settled before then.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
starting panel
Peshtigo, WI
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Curtis Jaussi <jaussi@direcway.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Jaussi" <jaussi@direcway.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dead mike
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Curtis Jaussi
<jaussi@direcway.com>
>
> I have installed a Garmin 350XL with a PS Engineering CD/Intercom. The
intercom works OK--the Comm works OK to receive. When I trigger the mike,
signal is transmitted out, but the mike goes completely dead. It does not
transmit anything on the comm or the intercom. Any ideas on where to begin
looking?
>
>
> Curtis Jaussi Europa XL tri-gear.
> jaussi@direcway.com
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Narco Escort II question clarification |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" <jorear@new.rr.com>
List:
I mistakenly said I wanted to listen to the VOR on the Nav side of the Narco II.
I meant to say I want to listen to the AWOS at my local airport that is transmitted
on the VOR.
Sorry about that
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
starting panel
Peshtigo, WI
Message 14
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" <james@berkut13.com>
I sure do! I just had this EXACT same issue with my bird and was THIS
weekend's project. All working well now. I'm not using the same type of
intercom that you are, but I suspect something similar is happening.
My problem is that the intercom was expecting the PTT circuits to be
connected via the mic jacks themselves independently. In other words, the
intercom was expecting a discreet PTT circuit for the pilot and another for
the co-pilot station. I had rigged a common PTT circuit for both sticks and
fed that into the audio panel with a connection to the intercom. Little did
I know...THAT connection is one-way...the other way - (Intercom TO the audio
panel...then on to the selected radio, not the other way around). Like you,
everything worked well except for xmit - dead mikes.
I went back and wired each mic jack (tip pin) with a PTT key line that goes
to each stick independently. These stick grip PTT switches are wired to
common ground when pressed. Works like a champ, now. (had to adjust the
xmit side-tone volume, but that was all)
This also utilizes the intercom's discreet transmission functions - co-pilot
PTT only xmits from the co-pilot mic and vice-versa. This cuts down
ambient noise...and there is a pilot override as well - but I digress into
intercom functions.
Give me a shout if you need more information or this doesn't make sense.
Good luck,
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
www.berkut13.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curtis Jaussi" <jaussi@direcway.com>
Subject: Fw: AeroElectric-List: Dead mike
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Curtis Jaussi
<jaussi@direcway.com>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Curtis Jaussi" <jaussi@direcway.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dead mike
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Curtis Jaussi
> <jaussi@direcway.com>
> >
> > I have installed a Garmin 350XL with a PS Engineering CD/Intercom. The
> intercom works OK--the Comm works OK to receive. When I trigger the mike,
> signal is transmitted out, but the mike goes completely dead. It does not
> transmit anything on the comm or the intercom. Any ideas on where to
begin
> looking?
> >
> >
> > Curtis Jaussi Europa XL tri-gear.
> > jaussi@direcway.com
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | KI-204 lighting? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" <james@berkut13.com>
Can anyone tell me what pins are used for the 14v internal lighting for a
King KI-204 indicator?
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
www.berkut13.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Stereo Headset Jacks. Where? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Collins" <philc1@ix.netcom.com>
Actually, I ordered stereo from ACS and what they sent me was mono, I
went to Radio Shack.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Darwin N. Barrie
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Stereo Headset Jacks. Where?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie"
<ktlkrn@cox.net>
Theirs are mono, I just called them the other day. I think Spruce has
the
stereo versions.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Stereo Headset Jacks. Where?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
<Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> I don't see stereo headset jacks for sale on Bob's/B&C's website. Am
I
> right or misunderstanding something?
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
> Do not archive
>
>
=
==
==
==
==
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Chief has 'em: http://checkoway.com/url/?s=485fe106
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
<emjones@charter.net>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> Dear Bob,
>
> In my humble opinion you are far too critical of the use of Transorbs in
> aircraft wiring systems.
>
> The use of many electronic components is merely a cheap insurance policy
> against what may (or may not) be low probablility events. The increasing
use
> of data busses and electronics in general presumes a move to electrically
> quieter environments.
>
> Although much of this can be calculated and engineered, it is often true
> that long term operational reliability is achieved merely by the
application
> of "Good Engineering Practices". To argue that there is no proof that
> such-and-such is necessary seems too harsh. Much is simply unknown. If I
had
> a choice of planting a Transorb at the inputs to my $10k aviation gizmo or
> not, and you say it's probably unnecessary....give me the Transorb.
>
> You criticise the choice of 33V Transorbs. These may have been picked for
> 28V aircraft, however being too picky about the exact voltage ignores the
> rate of rise and the nature of the EMI. Transorbs are not used for DC
> overvoltages. In most EMI systems suppressors are "stacked" with some high
> frequency, some low frequency, some for surges, some for big pulses of
short
> duration...etc.
>
> ----For any measurement system some EMI will be invisible. Years ago an
8051
> used in a control application suddenly stopped working. The problem was
> traced to the fact that the chip manufacturer had shrunk the die size. Now
> the part was 100X as susceptible to EMI.
>
> >But designing a system for lightning survivability is simply outside the
> realm of operation for 99.99% >of light aircraft missions . . .
>
> ----Lightning protection? Why not? Big aircraft on average are hit once a
> year. Of course there is always the lightning bolt that can't be stopped.
> Some places like Florida have plenty of lightning and are particular
> bountiful for avionics repair shops---coincidence? Like a cow disposed
> radially to a lightning-struck tree---you don't have to be hit to be hurt.
>
> >They advocate putting a Transorb on every potential
> >victim device. In a small aircraft where the bus
> >is located within a few feet of each device, a SINGLE
> >Transorb on the bus to a low impedance ground would
> >suffice to protect all devices in the aircraft.
>
> An EMI pulse might travel 5 feet in the time it takes a Transorb to trip.
> Cheapo insurance.
>
> > If someone ever produces data on a repeatable experiment wherein we can
> identify and justify
> > the need for such devices in our airplanes, you can "bet your sweet
bippy"
> that they'll show up
> > in the Z-Figures in short order. Until that time folks, please view
> articles suggesting such devices
> > with caution . . . let's talk about it first before you sprinkle your
> system with flooby-dust.
>
> To err on the side of caution with a sprinkle of flooby-dust (but not be
> too crazy about it)....that's cheap insurance.
>
> A great power supply designer--Alan Cocconi--once put dabs of grease in
the
> corners of the boxes of his new designs. When asked why, he said, "I
figure
> there's probably a loose piece of wire or solder somewhere...and I just
want
> to make sure I know where it's going to wind up."
>
> Regards,
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge MA 01550-2705
> Phone (508) 764-2072
> Email: emjones@charter.net
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Loadmeter Wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:35 AM 12/14/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey@ix.netcom.com>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey@ix.netcom.com>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Loadmeter Wiring
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey"
><rmickey@ix.netcom.com>
> >
> > > do you mean ohmmeter?
> >
> Yes.
> >
> > > Are you sure you're not confusing the needles? See
> > >
> > > http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/loadvolt.jpg
> > >
> >
> No, I am not confusing the needles. The needle located on the right that
> indicates load on the left moves when I put the ohmmeter accross pins 4 and
>5. I did this about 6 times because I know it didn't look right. The only
> reason I checked it is because I have gone over all of my wiring 4-5 times
> and can't find anything wrong. When I installed it as per the wiring
> diagram, the voltmeter appears to work but the loadmeter doesn't move.
>Could this occur if the instrument is wired backward internally?
Hmmmm . . . I'm mystified. They are entirely different instruments.
The voltmeter has a resistance of about 500 ohms and a full scale
current of 250 microamps. The loadmeter side has a resistance of about
25 ohms and a 2 milliampere full scale current so that it reads a 50mv
shunt. If your voltmeter is reading correctly, then it's wired right
and whatever pins are left over have to be loadmeter pins.
You can't hurt anything by reversing them.
Bob . . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: A few simple questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:24 AM 12/14/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RSamuelson@aol.com
>
>Building an RV7A and just starting the electric systems. I am using the Van's
>starter solenoid and master relay, following Figure Z13.
>
>Is the Diode included in the starter contactor as shown in Fig Z13?
The S702-1 contactor illustrated at:
http://www.bandc.biz/S702Wire.jpg
comes with diode installed internally as described
on:
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?11X358218
>Is the Diode NOT included in the Master Relay? If not, what item to order
>from B&C?
The S701-1 master contactor comes as shown in B&C's
catalog with diode and jumper installed. See:
http://www.bandc.biz/S701-1.html
>Is the Volage Regulator shown in the upper right of Fig Z13 included in the
>SD8 Alternator? If not, what item to order?
Yes, the SD-8 comes with rectifier/regulator. See:
http://www.bandc.biz/SD8desc.html
for a complete list of downloadable support documents
on the SD-8
Bob . . .
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: stereo headphone jacks |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Oops, replied to the wrong message. This was about stereo headphone jacks,
obviously. 8-)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
<dan@rvproject.com>
>
> Chief has 'em: http://checkoway.com/url/?s=485fe106
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:55 PM 12/14/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>In my humble opinion you are far too critical of the use of Transorbs in
>aircraft wiring systems.
>
>The use of many electronic components is merely a cheap insurance policy
>against what may (or may not) be low probablility events. The increasing use
>of data busses and electronics in general presumes a move to electrically
>quieter environments.
>Although much of this can be calculated and engineered, it is often true
>that long term operational reliability is achieved merely by the application
>of "Good Engineering Practices". To argue that there is no proof that
>such-and-such is necessary seems too harsh. Much is simply unknown. If I had
>a choice of planting a Transorb at the inputs to my $10k aviation gizmo or
>not, and you say it's probably unnecessary....give me the Transorb.
Show me the repeatable experiment wherein you have captured
a transient event worthy of considering inclusion of Transorbs
for the purpose they were offered in the article cited.
I've been all over the power distribution systems in all manner
of vehicles including C-150's through Hawker Horizons . . . if
my gizmo passes DO-160 testing for everything but lightning,
then Transorbs have been shown to be unnecessary.
Now, had the article been talking about taking lightning strikes,
then Transorbs ARE often useful . . . but it takes more consideration
than simply tying them across the incoming power lines and hoping
one has purchased the right "insurance" policy.
>----Lightning protection? Why not? Big aircraft on average are hit once a
>year. Of course there is always the lightning bolt that can't be stopped.
>Some places like Florida have plenty of lightning and are particular
>bountiful for avionics repair shops---coincidence? Like a cow disposed
>radially to a lightning-struck tree---you don't have to be hit to be hurt.
If one is buying "insurance" against the effects of
a lightning strike on or near our airplanes, then
a sprinkling of Transorbs as described in the article
is but one of many concerns. Let us not offer these as
a useful thing to do in this area of concern unless
we address ALL the issues. Would you counsel adding
a hot patch to a windshield without also advising boots
and prop heaters?
> >They advocate putting a Transorb on every potential
> >victim device. In a small aircraft where the bus
> >is located within a few feet of each device, a SINGLE
> >Transorb on the bus to a low impedance ground would
> >suffice to protect all devices in the aircraft.
>
>An EMI pulse might travel 5 feet in the time it takes a Transorb to trip.
>Cheapo insurance.
>
> > If someone ever produces data on a repeatable experiment wherein we can
>identify and justify
> > the need for such devices in our airplanes, you can "bet your sweet bippy"
>that they'll show up
> > in the Z-Figures in short order. Until that time folks, please view
>articles suggesting such devices
> > with caution . . . let's talk about it first before you sprinkle your
>system with flooby-dust.
>
> To err on the side of caution with a sprinkle of flooby-dust (but not be
>too crazy about it)....that's cheap insurance.
I won't recommend "insurance" for which there is no
documented risk . . . I CAN document a risk for certain
avionics to go brain-dead when flying within a mile of
high-power FM broadcast and TV station towers. I've seen
it happen and repeated the experiment for others. I fixed
the problem with a couple of chokes and capacitors on a pair
of data lines. The risk of RF intrusion close to broadcast
stations is many times greater than that of microsecond wide,
500 microjoule "spikes" that disappear when you load
them with a 10uF capacitor. Now, should I err on the side
of caution and start recommending "insurance" in the
form of capacitors and chokes on ALL low power signal lines
of every device? It it a valid position to worry about every
supplier's ability to deliver product that will thrive in
its intended operating environment?
There's no need to err . . . these systems are not that
complicated. If we're half the engineers we claim to be,
we should KNOW which devices are antagonists are and how wicked
they are . . . and then run 'em to ground.
>A great power supply designer--Alan Cocconi--once put dabs of grease in the
>corners of the boxes of his new designs. When asked why, he said, "I figure
>there's probably a loose piece of wire or solder somewhere...and I just want
>to make sure I know where it's going to wind up."
Nice anecdotal information . . . but I'm still waiting for
the data. I've looked for these gremlins in many a dark
hole and they simply haven't emerged. Before lightning
strike requirements came along, we had the 40v surge
and 300 volt spike in 14V systems and 80v/600v requirements
in 28V systems. Both easily managed before Transorbs
even existed. Today, they're even easier to manage, still
without Transorbs.
Further, the stress requirements assumed that some poorly
designed antagonist would find its way onto the airplane.
Publishing articles like the one Michael cited has to be filed
under "Chicken Little" stories . . . much worry and no data.
I got a call from a builder about 12 years ago who told
me that he'd wired his entire electrical system with shielded
wire. He cited a list of filters he'd installed on various
accessories. After the recitation, he asked, "What else do
I need?" I had listened to his recitation in amazement
and responded to his question with, "Gee, I can't imagine.
What kind of noise problem do you have?" He said "Oh, I don't
have a problem . . .in fact, I haven't flown the airplane yet."
He too had bought into someone's notion of "insurance"
based on a complete lack of understanding. As engineers
and teachers, we have a duty to do better in the understanding
department. Let us offer defenses against known antagonists,
not "insurance" against imagined ones.
Bob . . .
Message 22
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| Subject: | Ray Allen Stick Grips |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BAKEROCB@aol.com
AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Gilles.Thesee"
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
<<Hi all, OC wrote " This means that the wiring and contacts on the bottom
of the grip head can come in direct contact with the exposed top of the metal
control stick."
I'm not quite sure I clearly understand this one. The main problem with
those Ray Allen stick grips is that there is no reasonnable room provided
for the connections in the grip head. The wires are tightly packed inside
the head, putting the wires and solders at risk of being broken.
I used a multi conductor wire, and there is no bare wire or connections
apart those in the stick heads and those in the connector at the end of the
two foot wire, outside the sticks. Tossed the tiny wires supplied by Ray
Allen.
How did you install your wires ? Regards, Gilles >>
12/14/2003
Hello Gilles, "...skip....bare wire or connections........ in the stick
heads..skip..." There is your answer right there.
The stick grip in question was the G1 / G101 which has a single PTT button in
the center of the top of the grip. The professional who wired my panel also
wired the stick grips. He soldered the two wires in that grip to the two
exposed metal switch connectors on the bottom of the grip head. When those two
bare
connectors came in contact with the top of the metal tubular control stick a
direct short was created and the result was a constant keying of the radio
transmitter.
My solution was to install a small circular plastic disc that covered the top
of the metal control stick. A small slit in this disc allowed the wires to
pass through, but prevented contact between the switch connectors and the top of
the metal control stick.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - 11/17/03
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Who knows the TRANSORB 33V ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:45 PM 12/14/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>Chief has 'em: http://checkoway.com/url/?s=485fe106
So does Digikey. Depending on how much "insurance" one wants
to buy, they carry devices rated up through 5,000 watts at:
http://dkc3.digikey.com/pdf/T033/0584-0587.pdf
If someone wants some 15,000 watt devices, I've got a few
left over from another program. I think these are 18v devices . . .
suited for use in 14V systems.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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<RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>, <RV7or7A@yahoogroups.com>,
<SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com>
| Subject: | GMA-340 installation manual |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Several people have asked me where I got my copy of the GMA-340 installation
manual. Several months ago I had downloaded it from the Garmin web site.
Since then I deleted the file, thinking I could always go back and download
it again.
Well...Garmin has been playing hide and go seek with some of their
installation manuals! I have no idea why they would do that. Actually, I
know exactly why, but I don't agree with it!
So screw 'em...hiding information is not a good practice if you ask me.
Here's the URL to the GMA-340 installation manual:
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GMA340AudioPanel_InstallationManual.pdf
They "unpublished" the URL from their site, but hey...a little futzing
around and you can find it, as I did. Download it now, stow it away
somewhere on your computer(s) and thank yourself later for doing it now
while you still can.
Enjoy,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: KI-204 lighting? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:53 PM 12/14/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" <james@berkut13.com>
>
>Can anyone tell me what pins are used for the 14v internal lighting for a
>King KI-204 indicator?
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KI203-204.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 26
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<RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>, <RV7or7A@yahoogroups.com>,
<SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com>
| Subject: | GMA-340 installation manual |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "'Scott Richardson'" <scott_m_richardson@sbcglobal.net>
There were a couple Garmin manuals that I was looking for recently that
were not included on their site (installation for GNC-300XL and GTX-327)
and I just filled out their tech request and they emailed them both to
me in PDF form within an hour or so - no questions asked. They've
always been quite helpful - I just told them that I was building an
experimental and intended to purchase their product. The form is at:
http://www.garmin.com/contactUs/techSupport.jsp
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan
Checkoway
RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com; RV7or7A@yahoogroups.com;
SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: GMA-340 installation manual
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
--> <dan@rvproject.com>
Several people have asked me where I got my copy of the GMA-340
installation manual. Several months ago I had downloaded it from the
Garmin web site. Since then I deleted the file, thinking I could always
go back and download it again.
Well...Garmin has been playing hide and go seek with some of their
installation manuals! I have no idea why they would do that. Actually,
I know exactly why, but I don't agree with it!
So screw 'em...hiding information is not a good practice if you ask me.
Here's the URL to the GMA-340 installation manual:
http://www.garmin.com/manuals/GMA340AudioPanel_InstallationManual.pdf
They "unpublished" the URL from their site, but hey...a little futzing
around and you can find it, as I did. Download it now, stow it away
somewhere on your computer(s) and thank yourself later for doing it now
while you still can.
Enjoy,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
=
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: KI-204 lighting? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" <james@berkut13.com>
That's simply beautiful!
Thanks, Bob!
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KI-204 lighting?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 08:53 PM 12/14/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon"
<james@berkut13.com>
> >
> >Can anyone tell me what pins are used for the 14v internal lighting for a
> >King KI-204 indicator?
>
> See:
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/KI203-204.pdf
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
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