Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:31 AM - Re: Fuel sw? (Steve Hunt)
2. 05:37 AM - Re: Breakdown voltage (Gary Casey)
3. 09:28 AM - Re: Resistive Fuel Sensors (Ross Mickey)
4. 12:12 PM - MicroAir transponder wiriing harness problem (Rick Fogerson)
5. 12:32 PM - Removing locking pins from radio connector.... (Jack Lockamy)
6. 12:58 PM - Matronics Internet Connection Repaired!! (Matt Dralle)
7. 01:50 PM - voltage regulator location (Scott Diffenbaugh)
8. 01:59 PM - Both Z-13 alternators on at same time (Scott Diffenbaugh)
9. 02:24 PM - Securing Pins in D-Sub Connector (John Wiegenstein)
10. 03:44 PM - Re: Securing Pins in D-Sub Connector (N1deltawhiskey@aol.com)
11. 05:32 PM - Re: Securing Pins in D-Sub Connector (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 05:36 PM - Re: Removing locking pins from radio (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 06:17 PM - Phone/Mic Jack Connector (Don Boardman)
14. 06:20 PM - Re: Removing locking pins from radio connector.... (James Redmon)
15. 06:30 PM - Re: Both Z-13 alternators on at same time (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 06:37 PM - Re: voltage regulator location (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 06:39 PM - Re: MicroAir transponder wiriing harness (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 07:14 PM - Re: Re: Thermocouples (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 10:27 PM - Re: MicroAir transponder wiriing harness (Rick Fogerson)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Hunt" <Stephen.Hunt19@btinternet.com>
Add 1000 g and you get the correct weight, I dropped the "1" ! It`s an amazingly
light bit of kit, Blue Mountain produce it, they have a webb site.
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: Breakdown voltage |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
<<For a practical distance between high voltage wires in the range of a
few mm, when you change pressure starting from the atmospheric pressure,
the breakdown voltage is proportional to the pressure. At around 5,000
m (~15,000ft) the pressure reduces by a factor of two, and the
breakdown voltage reduces by a factor of two. That proportional
dependence is valid for any practical aviation altitude until you reach
a pressure somewhere between 1 and 0.1 mmHg, which would correspond to
an altitude of sub orbital ionosphere...So, you are right that vacuum is
much better insulator than air. But it
is a LONG way to go from any aviation pressure at any realistic
altitude to vacuum.
Jerzy>>
You explained it better than I, Jerzy. One thing I didn't know is that the
minimum breakdown voltage (minimum dielectric strength) occurs at a pressure
other than a perfect vacuum. What I was getting at was the difference
between resistance and dielectric strength. Air has a certain conductivity
(when it contains a normal amount of moisture) so that might lead one to
believe that it would be better to pull a vacuum in the distributor cap.
The difference is that in the distributor cap we are concerned with
breakdown voltage, not the insulating properties and that's why the magnetos
are typically pressurized.
Gary Casey
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Resistive Fuel Sensors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey@ix.netcom.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "hollandm" <hollandm@pacbell.net>
> I'm installing Stewart Warner resistive fuel sensors in my RV9A. To
provide some redundancy I am considering adding a set of Vans analog gauges,
in series with a Grand Rapids EIS4000.
>
> Are there any concerns about having more than one gauge attached to these
sensors?
My suggestion here, if you really want redundancy, is to get the fuel flow
option for the EIS4000. Then you have two independent sources to cross
check against. That is what I did. The fuel flow is now calibrated to
within .5 gal.
Ross mickey
N9PT
Message 4
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| Subject: | MicroAir transponder wiriing harness problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
Do Not Archive
> > Hi Bob,
> > I mailed the harness back to you via UPS Ground on Monday so you should
receive
> > it any day. The Rocky Mtn. encoder also has a 9 pin connector that
> requires
> > shielded twisted pair wiring. I would like to buy 6 feet of it from you
> if
> > you can include in the return harness package.
> > One other thing, I included a note with the RMI encoder pin callout. And
> > because the encoder and xpdr are so close, the harness connecting the
two
> > could be shortened to 16 to 17 inches.
Tried to mail this to: nuckolls@aeroelectric.com but didn't go thru.
Do you have a different e-mail address now?
> >
> > Thanks, Rick Fogerson
> > 7558 W. Hathaway Ct.
> > Boise, ID 83714
> >
> > > >Sorry Bob,
> > > >We didn't talk about the requirements any further than just " a
wiring
> > > >harness for the T2000 xpdr. Unfortunately I didn't know enough to
> > realize
> > > >that the harness would be different for different encoders.
> > > >I've just been able to talk to Rocky Mtn. and think the best thing is
> to
> > > >send the harness back to you with instructions. I'll get it in the
> mail
> > > >today!
> > >
> > > Very good.
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Removing locking pins from radio connector.... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy@att.net>
What's the secret to removing the small locking pins from a connector (back of
Bendix/King KA-134 Audio Panel)?
I have a couple wires that slipped free from a pin. I need to remove the pin,
re-crimp the wires, and then install them back in the connector.
Jack
Message 6
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| Subject: | Matronics Internet Connection Repaired!! |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
The phone company was out here bright and early this morning and repaired
the wires and the T1 connection is back up and rock solid!
Again my apologies for any inconvenience the disruption may have caused.
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | voltage regulator location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Diffenbaugh" <diff@foothill.net>
For a z-13 installation, I have noted on the instructions for both the LR-3
regulator, and the SD-8 regulator, capacitor, relay, & OV module, that these
items should be mounted on the cockpit side of the firewall to avoid heat,
water, & vibration. I'm real curious as to where most builders install
them, and any good or bad experiences. How often might these devices cause
smoke in the cockpit? What about access to adjust the voltage and perform
the annual test on the LR-3? Also, I would be running the SD-8 12 ga output
wire inside the cockpit to the devices and then back out again to the
battery contactor. Any insights will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you, Scott, RV7-A
Scott Diffenbaugh
diff@foothill.net
Message 8
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| Subject: | Both Z-13 alternators on at same time |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Diffenbaugh" <diff@foothill.net>
Hi Bob,
Just have a desire to further my education. Per Z-13, what happens if
I
inadvertently turn on my SD-8 while my main alternator is running? Would
this be an expensive lesson with lots of smoke? Do I need to set the
voltage on one a bit less than the other? Thanks.
Scott RV-7A
Scott Diffenbaugh
diff@foothill.net
Message 9
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| Subject: | Securing Pins in D-Sub Connector |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Wiegenstein" <n727jw@hellerwiegenstein.com>
Couldn't find anything in the archives, so here goes. Having ordered up the
D-sub crimper, pins, etc. from B&C, I'm mulling over how to secure the pins
and sockets in the D-sub connector bodies themselves. Sockets (female)
seem to seat in pretty snugly, but the male pins do not. Rather than order
shells for the connector bodies and finish them off that way, has anyone had
good results with something simpler? I'm wondering if just a dab of RTV
along the pin line, to secure the pins and wires to the connector body,
would do the trick. TIA for any suggestions.
John Wiegenstein
Hansville, WA
RV-6 N727JW (reserved)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Securing Pins in D-Sub Connector |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
In a message dated 12/26/2003 2:25:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,
n727jw@hellerwiegenstein.com writes:
> Having ordered up the
> D-sub crimper, pins, etc. from B&C, I'm mulling over how to secure the pins
> and sockets in the D-sub connector bodies themselves.
John,
Just put the pin in the backside of the connector, it snaps in place. There
is an insertion tool for this, but I have never needed to use it.
Doug Windhorn
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Securing Pins in D-Sub Connector |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:24 PM 12/26/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Wiegenstein"
><n727jw@hellerwiegenstein.com>
>
>Couldn't find anything in the archives, so here goes. Having ordered up the
>D-sub crimper, pins, etc. from B&C, I'm mulling over how to secure the pins
>and sockets in the D-sub connector bodies themselves. Sockets (female)
>seem to seat in pretty snugly, but the male pins do not. Rather than order
>shells for the connector bodies and finish them off that way, has anyone had
>good results with something simpler? I'm wondering if just a dab of RTV
>along the pin line, to secure the pins and wires to the connector body,
>would do the trick. TIA for any suggestions.
Either connector (assuming you're using a housing DESIGNED to
accept the machined, removable pins) will grasp the pins very
firmly. You push them in until you hear/feel a "snap" when
the retention tines internal to the housing slip past the
pin's largest diameter. If you're working with (ugh 24 awg or
finer wire) you may need to use the red/wht insertion/extraction
tool to press the pins into place. With all the wire in my inventory,
I simply push the pin into final resting place by pushing with
the wire.
Once properly placed, you WILL need the white end of
the insertion/extraction tool to remove a pin.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Removing locking pins from radio |
connector....
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
connector....
At 09:50 AM 12/26/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy@att.net>
>
>What's the secret to removing the small locking pins from a connector
>(back of Bendix/King KA-134 Audio Panel)?
>
>I have a couple wires that slipped free from a pin. I need to remove the
>pin, re-crimp the wires, and then install them back in the connector.
You can buy or fabricate a tool like the one shown at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/extraction_tool.jpg
It's not likely that you'll be able to put a wire back into
an already crimped pin and re-crimp it. It's a good idea to
put 2-3 pound tug on a pin after crimping and before inserting
pin into connector housing. If you can't achieve at least this
degree of capture integrity, there's something wrong with either
your crimp tool, technique or both.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Phone/Mic Jack Connector |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
Hi Bob and All,
We plan to put two cigar power jacks and the pilot's and co-pilot's phone
and mic jacks between the pilot and co-pilot seats in a "small console".
This console will need to be removed during annual inspection and therefore
will need a disconnect.
Are there any special considerations in selecting a connector because of the
the phone and mic jacks? I am thinking Molex? Possibly D-sub?
Thanks,
Don B.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Removing locking pins from radio connector.... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" <james@berkut13.com>
In case you missed this before:
http://www.berkut13.com/extractor.htm
Definitely read this before trying to make or purchasing a tool!!!! You
will be glad you did.
Enjoy,
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
www.berkut13.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy@att.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Removing locking pins from radio connector....
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jack Lockamy"
<jacklockamy@att.net>
>
> What's the secret to removing the small locking pins from a connector
(back of Bendix/King KA-134 Audio Panel)?
>
> I have a couple wires that slipped free from a pin. I need to remove the
pin, re-crimp the wires, and then install them back in the connector.
>
> Jack
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Both Z-13 alternators on at same time |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:58 PM 12/26/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Diffenbaugh"
><diff@foothill.net>
>
>Hi Bob,
> Just have a desire to further my education. Per Z-13, what
> happens if I
>inadvertently turn on my SD-8 while my main alternator is running? Would
>this be an expensive lesson with lots of smoke? Do I need to set the
>voltage on one a bit less than the other? Thanks.
Nope. No damage will occur. The alternator with the higher setpoint
will attempt to hog the load . . . if this happens to be the smaller
SD8 alternator, it will put out up between 8 and 10 amps before
the bus sags enough to wake up the larger alternator whereupon
it will take up the slack.
Now, UNLIKE the SD-20 which is DESIGNED to operate TOGETHER
with the larger alternator in a Z-12 configuration, you DON'T
want to set the SD-8 for a lower voltage and run it all the time.
Unless you have the special circuitry like that built into the
SD-20/SB-1 combination to alert you when the main alternator
fails, running the SD-8 all the time would mask the event if
your system was lightly loaded.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: voltage regulator location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:49 PM 12/26/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Diffenbaugh"
><diff@foothill.net>
>
>For a z-13 installation, I have noted on the instructions for both the LR-3
>regulator, and the SD-8 regulator, capacitor, relay, & OV module, that these
>items should be mounted on the cockpit side of the firewall to avoid heat,
>water, & vibration. I'm real curious as to where most builders install
>them, and any good or bad experiences. How often might these devices cause
>smoke in the cockpit? What about access to adjust the voltage and perform
>the annual test on the LR-3? Also, I would be running the SD-8 12 ga output
>wire inside the cockpit to the devices and then back out again to the
>battery contactor. Any insights will be greatly appreciated.
EVERY manufacturer of electro-whizzies would like for you
to never get his box wet, hot, too-cold, oily, dusty, or badly
beat upon . . . if they had a choice. It stands to reason that
PROBABILITY of unhappy customers due to environmentally induced
problems will be lower.
However, Mr. Bainbridge has elected to play in the same sandbox
with the big guys. Irrespective of his best wishes for his products,
they should not require any more pampering that other devices
designed for airplanes. All of the devices you've cited have
be successfully installed both in the cockpit and under the cowl
for 15 to 20 years. Design your system for installation and
maintenance ease and simplicity, not for feather-bedding the
components.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: MicroAir transponder wiriing harness |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
<snip>
> Tried to mail this to: nuckolls@aeroelectric.com but didn't go thru.
>Do you have a different e-mail address now?
That account was closed when spam count topped 2 or 3 hundred
a day. There is an unpublished e-mail address on the
aeroelectric.com server that I use for limited purposes
and is not checked as often as this on the cox.net account.
Your harness has been modified per the data you provided
and is out of here in tomorrow's mail.
Bob . . .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Thermocouples |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:24 PM 12/24/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
>
><<If you need a multi-way switch, use the same kind of wire to the switch,
> >then it is conservative to use the same kind of wire from the switch to the
> >instrument. Caveat: the switch needs to be in the same temperature zone as
> >the instrument since the 'cold junction' matches are critical to
> >sensor/instrument accuracy. Anytime one has a connection in the sensor
> >wire, one creates another cold junction.
>
> It's more accurate to say that deleterious effects of
> any parasitic thermocouples generated when introducing
> foreign metals can be minimized as long as whatever is done
> to one side of the thermocouple path is done to the other side
> but in opposite polarity . . . it's a sorta two-wrongs-can-
> make-a-right approach.>>
>
>Bob is certainly correct here. A long time ago when we were using passive
>"pyrometers," really just voltmeters, to read thermocouples we even went as
>far as to use a special selector switch that was made of the right
>materials. But then I worked at a powerplant one summer and there were
>thermocouples half a mile away from the instrument. We ran the TC wires to
>a junction box, connected them to copper and ran the rest of the way in
>copper.
You can do this but the thermocouple-to-copper junction becomes the "cold"
or "reference junction" . . . to achieve useable and accurate information,
you'll need to either KNOW or CONTROL the temperature in that junction
box. This is the configuration described in View -B-, Figure 14-10
of:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/excerpt.pdf
In the "remote reference" scenario, I show making this connnection in
an ice bath (0 degrees C) so that voltages can be converted to
a useful temperature equivalent at the instrument end. I've designed
systems were the j-box for a whole raft of t/c reference junctions
was held at about 100C with a heater and thermostat. This provided
a known correction factor to convert voltages sensed at instrument
end into real temperatures.
All of these discussion should be academic. REAL thermocouple wire
is not hard to get nor is it expensive in the small quantities needed
to wire the average SE aircraft.
See:
http://www.omega.com/toc_asp/subsectionSC.asp?subsection=H06&book=Temperature
for a gaggle of thermocouple wire products. May I recommend
the TT series wires and 20AWG stranded as particularly robust and
easy to use. Of there are other combinations to choose from.
There's a part-number-builder on each catalog page for
wire that will tell you what a small quantity of each kind
of wire will cost. For example, TT-J-20S in 25' coil is the
grand sum of $32 plus shipping. The same insulation in a 24 gage
stranded wire is $27. K-wires are similarly priced. Check
out the rest of Omega's website for a wealth of free reference
literature on thermocouples and other technologies.
Bottom line is that what ever technology you use to deduce
temperatures based on a thermocouple will DEPEND on a reference
junction somewhere in the system. For panel mounted instruments,
this reference is INSIDE the instrument. Bring T/C wires
all the way up to the instrument if you expect to achieve
specified performance for that instrument.
Bob . . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: MicroAir transponder wiriing harness |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
Do Not Archive
Hi Bob,
I suppose it's too late now. What I wanted was to see if I could buy 6 or 7
feet of shielded twisted pair wire from you and have it included in the same
shipment as the redone harness. If it's too late, would radio shack have
that?
thanks, Rick Fogerson
> > Tried to mail this to: nuckolls@aeroelectric.com but didn't go
thru.
> >Do you have a different e-mail address now?
>
>
> That account was closed when spam count topped 2 or 3 hundred
> a day. There is an unpublished e-mail address on the
> aeroelectric.com server that I use for limited purposes
> and is not checked as often as this on the cox.net account.
>
> Your harness has been modified per the data you provided
> and is out of here in tomorrow's mail.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
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