Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:28 AM - Manual master switch (Gary Casey)
2. 06:51 AM - sample Z figures (Mickey Coggins)
3. 07:41 AM - Re: Manual master switch (BobsV35B@aol.com)
4. 08:34 AM - Re: sample Z figures (Richard E. Tasker)
5. 02:38 PM - Avionics for sale (Richard@riley.net)
6. 07:45 PM - How do I solder My son's x-mas present, the 'electricity (David A. Leonard)
7. 08:20 PM - Re: How do I solder My son's x-mas present, (Richard E. Tasker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Manual master switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
This was, I believe covered once before, but I don't remember the consensus:
What are the pros/cons of using a manual master (battery) switch instead of
the tradition relay contactor? It looks to me like the advantage is that it
eliminates a failure mode and reduces the wiring complexity. The
disadvantage is that there is likely a longer wire run from the battery that
is unprotected. In my case the battery(s) will likely be located in the
baggage compartment or rear of that, so the wire run is significant. The
plane is plastic, though, so with appropriate wire runs the likelihood of a
short to ground can be made to be negligibly small. I remember in car
wiring design the idea was that the battery wire is large enough so that the
battery will go dead before the wire will burn, although I don't know if it
actually works that way. My idea is to mount the battery switch on the
sidewall next to the pilot.
Gary Casey
Message 2
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| Subject: | sample Z figures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi,
I'm confused, nothing new. There is no example in
appendix Z of a single alternator, dual battery
system, is there?
I'm planning on a subaru conversion, so I'll need
a constant, automatic source of electricity. I
don't know of any subaru conversions that have two
alternators, so two batteries will be a must.
I guess I want something like figure 17-6, but
I don't quite understand how any of this is
automatic. I'm missing the part where I
wire my engine computer to both "always hot"
battery busses, and it always gets juice.
It all seems clear when I'm reading at the
coffee table, but when I start to draw my own
stuff, I realize how little I understood!
Thanks!
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Manual master switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 12/28/03 8:28:47 AM Central Standard Time,
glcasey@adelphia.net writes:
What are the pros/cons of using a manual master (battery) switch instead of
the tradition relay contactor? It looks to me like the advantage is that it
eliminates a failure mode and reduces the wiring complexity.
Good Morning Gary,
Just as further food for thought, have you considered using a manual switch
operated by a mechanical mechanism?
The Sud Est Caravelle had a manual arrangement for shifting a bunch of 28
volt batteries into a much higher voltage arrangement for engine starting. I
have forgotten the exact voltage, but I think we had enough batteries in series
to supply something around one hundred and twenty volts to the starter for
engine start. I do remember that the voltage would drop fifty or sixty volts
during the start. (We had to monitor the voltage and shut it down if the voltage
fell too low) There was a lever just to the left of my seat that I would
operate to switch the battery bank from the series to the parallel mode. As soon
as
the engines were both started, I would move the lever to the twenty-eight
volt position. Moving the lever also did things of which I have no knowledge to
restore normal twenty-eight volt system operation.
As I say. I have no idea what all the lever accomplished, but I do recall
that all of the switching was manually done by moving that lever.
It would add several points of mechanical failure, but it would save running
that heavy wire and all of the attendant voltage drop.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: sample Z figures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Not necessarily a recommendation, as I am going to develop my own
electrical design, but if you go to www.eggenfellneraircraft.com there
is a complete design there for what you want. It does, (unfortunately
in my opinion) use the EXP Bus system, but it does all you want.
Dick Tasker, RV9A #90573
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>Hi,
>
>I'm confused, nothing new. There is no example in
>appendix Z of a single alternator, dual battery
>system, is there?
>
>I'm planning on a subaru conversion, so I'll need
>a constant, automatic source of electricity. I
>don't know of any subaru conversions that have two
>alternators, so two batteries will be a must.
>
>I guess I want something like figure 17-6, but
>I don't quite understand how any of this is
>automatic. I'm missing the part where I
>wire my engine computer to both "always hot"
>battery busses, and it always gets juice.
>
>It all seems clear when I'm reading at the
>coffee table, but when I start to draw my own
>stuff, I realize how little I understood!
>
>Thanks!
>Mickey
>
>
>--
>Mickey Coggins
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Avionics for sale |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard@Riley.net
These will be going up on Barnstormers next week, but I thought I'd give
the folks here first crack.
1) Microair T-2000 transponder. 4 digit serial number (so there are no
outstanding mods to take care of,) never installed, in original
packaging. With harness by Bob, full warrantee. $1400. Retail $1700 plus
the price of the harness.
2) Apollo CNX80. New, never installed or run in any way, less than 30 days
out of the factory, in original packaging. Full warrantee. $9000 Retail $1195
Message 6
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Off.topic@matronics.com,
long.and.rambling.with.social.commentary..@matronics.com
| Subject: | How do I solder My son's x-mas present, the 'electricity |
board', Off topic, long and rambling with social commentary..
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David A. Leonard" <dleonar1@maine.rr.com>
board', Off topic, long and rambling with social commentary..
Help!
I have a toy for my 9 year old boy.. it's a kit, with a PCB, and a another
PCB that solders to it. They both have tabs with silver contacts on them,
the small PCB seems to fit into a slot on the motherboard, and the tabs
align with each other on the back side of the motherboard. They meet at a
ninety degree angle to each other, the tab with the connection solder leads
sticks thru the motherboard. Kind of like this l_ , so it looks like I
need to bridge the contacts.
This contraption (The new component) needs to have various switches
soldered to the board it a la our dear departed Heathkit catalog, and then
a speaker and batteries..it eventually makes farm animal noises. (Does my
heart good as it seems as though Heathkit is long gone!) I have soldered
various components to boards in the past, but most had wires or leads that
went thru the board, this is just tabs next to each other, like 8 on each
board, with about 1mm separating the tabs. Do I just try to heat the
adjacent tabs at the same time and flow some solder across the gap?
My old man, (who is 74 , an orthopedic surgeon wannabe engineer..got into
MIT right after WWII, and was told that if he went to Med school the army
would pay for it and make him an officer...) got it for the 'electricity
board' he built for the kid a few years ago..it is in for
an overhaul/upgrade....(he did one for me in about 1963..I was three at
the time..but there were no chips on that one). He couldn't figure out
how to solder this new item, and decided I'd know how...
By the way, the 'electricity board' is one of his coolest teaching
inventions..it consists of a battery pack, a few DPDT knife type switches,
a momentary on switch, a variable resistor, some LED's (my '63 model
didn't have these), an electric motor with a propeller, a buzzer, some
light bulbs, a horn, etc, , all mounted to a 12" x 18" plywood board. Also
included with the set are ten or fifteen alligator clipped jumper leads, in
red and black. Each component has its leads soldered to a terminal suitable
for clipping an alligator clip jumper lead to it.
From this basic bread board, we can teach all those neato concepts
like..complete circuit, resistance, positive and negative, series,
parallel, short circuit..you guys get the idea. You can hook it up in
endless configurations.
The only problem with this toy is that as the owner and beneficiary of
it, you end up with some strange looks from the adults around you, when
you are ten years old and you tell them that "you need to clean off the
ground connections on this battery if you want your boat to
start"...or "you better watch the polarity on those jumper cables, you are
hooking your two cars up in series..I don't think they are going to like
24 volts..!" You get a lot of disbelieving looks, but eventually those
adults will do what you tell them.
It really pisses them off when a little kid knows more about it than they
do.....eventually(later in life) they just hire you to deal with the
problems... did you ever notice how hard it is when they are stumped and
have to ask for help... they tend to resent the help sometimes as it
challenges their egos....That is what I like most about this list..we all
seem to realize we don't know it all...(except me of course)....and how
nice it is to have someone to ask! I don't think I've ever seen any
arrogance or attitudes on this list.. no flame wars, no insults..just a lot
of good old help..and "do me a favor, show me where I'm wrong"!
Most people don't really have a clue about how this stuff works, in fact
most adults would probably benefit from a few hours with the "Electricity
board"..I know it formed the basis for my understanding of the
concepts....A/C and especially three phase caused a little head scratching
later in life, and those pesky PFM (pure F***Magic) electronics concepts
are just starting to emerge from the murk of my understanding! This Aero
Electric list has helped me greatly!
Anyway..
I realize this is an AIRPLANE internet group, but I figger if I can
learn the boy to make electronics himself, I have a shot at him not
becoming a useless consumer/know nothing type, and then, if he 'needs' an
aircraft..he'll have the necessary 'can do' attitude( I refer to it, and
myself as "too numb to be scared") and the skills it takes to make or
repair one.
I haven't built an aircraft, I bought a Bellanca Viking..I do a lot of the
maintenance on it, (personally pulled one of the jugs at the last annual
and ground the valves)and through the use of this website, have fixed
many(all actually..we can't have less than a working bird now can we?) of
the electrical problems that baffled the various ' FAA cerified expert
maintenance facilities".
Specifically to date these are some of the problems that this list has
helped me through:
1. the unstable charging system due to poor connections in the field
wire/master switch circuit.. A loose Fast-on was the worst culprit..tested
fine with continuity, but the resistance went up due to the loose
connection and vibration, and created instability in the regulator...That
one fooled all the other owners and shops for twenty years and several
thousand dollars of component replacement, according to the logs..I
personally had a shop replace the alternator, and I replaced the
regulator before I wised up and found the problem myself). I was on to
that one from figuring it out myself when I read the Aero-Electric website
article on Cessna split master switches, and gained a much better
understanding of what was going on.
2. The 'disappearing transponder return' ...Avionics shops told me "all
Vikings (cloth planes in general) have that problem..'Lectric Bob suggested
a 5.4" copper disc at the base of the antenna for a good ground
plane..stuck it on the ouside of the plane under the tail...Problem GONE!!
..There are a few other Vikings now flying with a copper disc ground plane
now as well...
3. My Century 1 Autopilot not following the heading bug (contact cleaner
at all the connections).
4. The MOSFET replacement in MY BMW heater control board..(well this stuff
is useful for more than just aircraft now isn't it?)
So I really do appreciate all you folks efforts here.. I think we have one
heck of a great list!
Thanks for the help, I need to look good for the kid here..he hasn't
figured out that I'm just a guy yet..still thinks I can do anything...and I
guess I would like to hold on to that for another few weeks at least!
Sorry for the long post, I was in a writing mood, and I warned you guys in
the header!
Dave Leonard N77FE '72 SuperViking 300 (with fully functioning electrical
system and avionics/autopilot)
Message 7
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Off.topic@matronics.com,
long.and.rambling.with.social.commentary..@matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: How do I solder My son's x-mas present, |
the 'electricity board', Off topic,
long and rambling with social commentary..
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
the 'electricity board', Off topic, long and rambling with social commentary..
You have the answer already. As you said, just bridge the gap with
solder. You do not really have to solder to each part simultaneously -
put a "blob" on one part and another blob on the other part and then
reflow the solder a bit to connect them. Alternately, you can use short
pieces of wire to help connect the two parts - just soldered flat on the
boards. I suspect that this is also a structural connection so the
solder blobs is the best way. This is actually a fairly common
interconnection method is some consumer products. If the PCBs are
phenolic (brown) be careful of the soldering temperature.
Dick Tasker, RV9A #90573
David A. Leonard wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David A. Leonard" <dleonar1@maine.rr.com>
board', Off topic, long and rambling with social commentary..
>
>Help!
>I have a toy for my 9 year old boy.. it's a kit, with a PCB, and a another
>PCB that solders to it. They both have tabs with silver contacts on them,
>the small PCB seems to fit into a slot on the motherboard, and the tabs
>align with each other on the back side of the motherboard. They meet at a
>ninety degree angle to each other, the tab with the connection solder leads
>sticks thru the motherboard. Kind of like this l_ , so it looks like I
>need to bridge the contacts.
>
>This contraption (The new component) needs to have various switches
>soldered to the board it a la our dear departed Heathkit catalog, and then
>a speaker and batteries..it eventually makes farm animal noises. (Does my
>heart good as it seems as though Heathkit is long gone!) I have soldered
>various components to boards in the past, but most had wires or leads that
>went thru the board, this is just tabs next to each other, like 8 on each
>board, with about 1mm separating the tabs. Do I just try to heat the
>adjacent tabs at the same time and flow some solder across the gap?
>
>My old man, (who is 74 , an orthopedic surgeon wannabe engineer..got into
>MIT right after WWII, and was told that if he went to Med school the army
>would pay for it and make him an officer...) got it for the 'electricity
>board' he built for the kid a few years ago..it is in for
>an overhaul/upgrade....(he did one for me in about 1963..I was three at
>the time..but there were no chips on that one). He couldn't figure out
>how to solder this new item, and decided I'd know how...
>
>By the way, the 'electricity board' is one of his coolest teaching
>inventions..it consists of a battery pack, a few DPDT knife type switches,
>a momentary on switch, a variable resistor, some LED's (my '63 model
>didn't have these), an electric motor with a propeller, a buzzer, some
>light bulbs, a horn, etc, , all mounted to a 12" x 18" plywood board. Also
>included with the set are ten or fifteen alligator clipped jumper leads, in
>red and black. Each component has its leads soldered to a terminal suitable
>for clipping an alligator clip jumper lead to it.
>
> From this basic bread board, we can teach all those neato concepts
>like..complete circuit, resistance, positive and negative, series,
>parallel, short circuit..you guys get the idea. You can hook it up in
>endless configurations.
>
> The only problem with this toy is that as the owner and beneficiary of
>it, you end up with some strange looks from the adults around you, when
>you are ten years old and you tell them that "you need to clean off the
>ground connections on this battery if you want your boat to
>start"...or "you better watch the polarity on those jumper cables, you are
>hooking your two cars up in series..I don't think they are going to like
>24 volts..!" You get a lot of disbelieving looks, but eventually those
>adults will do what you tell them.
>
>It really pisses them off when a little kid knows more about it than they
>do.....eventually(later in life) they just hire you to deal with the
>problems... did you ever notice how hard it is when they are stumped and
>have to ask for help... they tend to resent the help sometimes as it
>challenges their egos....That is what I like most about this list..we all
>seem to realize we don't know it all...(except me of course)....and how
>nice it is to have someone to ask! I don't think I've ever seen any
>arrogance or attitudes on this list.. no flame wars, no insults..just a lot
>of good old help..and "do me a favor, show me where I'm wrong"!
>
>Most people don't really have a clue about how this stuff works, in fact
>most adults would probably benefit from a few hours with the "Electricity
>board"..I know it formed the basis for my understanding of the
>concepts....A/C and especially three phase caused a little head scratching
>later in life, and those pesky PFM (pure F***Magic) electronics concepts
>are just starting to emerge from the murk of my understanding! This Aero
>Electric list has helped me greatly!
>
>Anyway..
>
>
> I realize this is an AIRPLANE internet group, but I figger if I can
>learn the boy to make electronics himself, I have a shot at him not
>becoming a useless consumer/know nothing type, and then, if he 'needs' an
>aircraft..he'll have the necessary 'can do' attitude( I refer to it, and
>myself as "too numb to be scared") and the skills it takes to make or
>repair one.
>
>I haven't built an aircraft, I bought a Bellanca Viking..I do a lot of the
>maintenance on it, (personally pulled one of the jugs at the last annual
>and ground the valves)and through the use of this website, have fixed
>many(all actually..we can't have less than a working bird now can we?) of
>the electrical problems that baffled the various ' FAA cerified expert
>maintenance facilities".
>
>Specifically to date these are some of the problems that this list has
>helped me through:
>
>1. the unstable charging system due to poor connections in the field
>wire/master switch circuit.. A loose Fast-on was the worst culprit..tested
>fine with continuity, but the resistance went up due to the loose
>connection and vibration, and created instability in the regulator...That
>one fooled all the other owners and shops for twenty years and several
>thousand dollars of component replacement, according to the logs..I
>personally had a shop replace the alternator, and I replaced the
>regulator before I wised up and found the problem myself). I was on to
>that one from figuring it out myself when I read the Aero-Electric website
>article on Cessna split master switches, and gained a much better
>understanding of what was going on.
>
>2. The 'disappearing transponder return' ...Avionics shops told me "all
>Vikings (cloth planes in general) have that problem..'Lectric Bob suggested
>a 5.4" copper disc at the base of the antenna for a good ground
>plane..stuck it on the ouside of the plane under the tail...Problem GONE!!
>..There are a few other Vikings now flying with a copper disc ground plane
>now as well...
>
>3. My Century 1 Autopilot not following the heading bug (contact cleaner
>at all the connections).
>
>4. The MOSFET replacement in MY BMW heater control board..(well this stuff
>is useful for more than just aircraft now isn't it?)
>
>So I really do appreciate all you folks efforts here.. I think we have one
>heck of a great list!
>
>Thanks for the help, I need to look good for the kid here..he hasn't
>figured out that I'm just a guy yet..still thinks I can do anything...and I
>guess I would like to hold on to that for another few weeks at least!
>
>Sorry for the long post, I was in a writing mood, and I warned you guys in
>the header!
>
>Dave Leonard N77FE '72 SuperViking 300 (with fully functioning electrical
>system and avionics/autopilot)
>
>
>
>
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