Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:31 AM - old link (Jeff Point)
2. 06:25 AM - Re: Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:13 AM - Re: Master Bus Wire Size (Mark Phillips)
4. 07:24 AM - Re: old link (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:25 AM - Re: Bob - Substitution of Electrical Parts (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:32 AM - Re: Master Bus Wire Size (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 07:55 AM - Re: Master Bus Wire Size (Neville Kilford)
8. 08:01 AM - Re: Master Bus Wire Size (Neville Kilford)
9. 09:13 AM - Re: Master Bus Wire Size (Phil Birkelbach)
10. 09:21 AM - RingTerminalSource (DAVID REEL)
11. 10:04 AM - Re: RingTerminalSource (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 10:18 AM - Re: Master Bus Wire Size (Mark Phillips)
13. 11:53 AM - Re: Master Bus Wire Size (Neville Kilford)
14. 12:06 PM - Re: B-Crimp terminals... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 02:01 PM - Re: Master Bus Wire Size (Mark Phillips)
16. 02:37 PM - Re: Master Bus Wire Size (Neville Kilford)
17. 03:26 PM - Re: KX-125 problem (Bruce Green)
18. 03:35 PM - Re: Master Bus Wire Size (Richard Tasker)
19. 03:54 PM - Re: Common questions (rwilliams)
20. 04:37 PM - (Ron Patterson)
21. 04:54 PM - Professsional Panel Construction? (Ron Patterson)
22. 05:23 PM - Re: Master Bus Wire Size (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 05:27 PM - Re: Thread Locker on Electrical Terminals? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 05:48 PM - Strobe shield grounding question (Dan Checkoway)
25. 05:49 PM - Strobe shield grounding question (Dan Checkoway)
26. 05:57 PM - Re: Master Bus Wire Size (Dan Checkoway)
27. 06:00 PM - Re: (Don Honabach)
28. 06:19 PM - LED Position Lights (Eric M. Jones)
29. 08:36 PM - Dynon/SL70 Encoding (Larry Bowen)
30. 08:50 PM - Documentation (was Re: Master Bus Wire Size) (David Carter)
31. 08:54 PM - Re: Dynon/SL70 Encoding (N67BT@aol.com)
32. 09:10 PM - Re: Dynon/SL70 Encoding (Larry Bowen)
33. 09:15 PM - Re: terminal strips (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
34. 09:32 PM - XM Radio whine (richard@riley.net)
35. 10:07 PM - Re: Re: terminal strips (Dan Checkoway)
36. 10:43 PM - Electrics/electronics education question (drew.schumann@us.army.mil)
37. 11:03 PM - Re: Electrics/electronics education question (richard@riley.net)
38. 11:17 PM - Re: Electrics/electronics education question (drew.schumann@us.army.mil)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Bob,
Found this old link in the archives, which is no longer active. Is this
file available elsewhere on your site?
http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/s401-25.jpg
Jeff Point
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: EI Install - Firewall Penetration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:38 PM 7/16/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jordan Grant" <jgrant@sw.rr.com>
>
>
>The latest Kitplanes has an article that details an installation of the
>LSE Electronic Ignition. They just put the box on the engine side of the
>firewall. That eliminates the penetration altogether. I was thinking
>about doing it that way.
Making electronics "live" on the forward side
of the firewall shouldn't be any big deal. Of course,
every manufacturer of electro-whizzies for airplanes
would like for you to make it as easy as possible
for his particular product to perform well and elevated
temperatures ARE a strong service life issue if you
don't do your homework.
Without knowing the details of design and fabrication
on the LSE product, it's not possible to shed any
light on the question. It would be interesting to
get temperature data in the vicinity of the box
and on the surface of the box during your flyoff
phase.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Master Bus Wire Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Hi Nev-
Picture the wire coming adrift from the #2 terminal on the "E-bus alternate feed"
switch and contacting any ground (under normal main bus operation with this switch
open) Not a pretty picture.
Unless the main and e-bus fuseblocks are immediately adjacent and the connecting
wire
is really short, this connection should also be protected. Re-locating the fuselink
from the e-bus alternate feed to e-bus normal feed (at the main bus end) would
do
this, and protect the alternate feed wire as well. Optionally, the e-buss normal
feed could come from one of the fuses on the main bus block (properly sized, of
course).
I would also recommend a really good in-line fuse or fuselink on the main bus feed
wire at the battery contactor if this wire passes through the firewall or is of
any
substantial length- 6" or longer is one guideline, ditto the battery bus supply
feed
at the battery contactor, depending on wire length & routing- the drawing does
show
this as 6" or less (*) And if we REALLY want to get anal, I'd connect the batt
bus
feed at the battery, eliminating one connection there as well. YMMV...
From The PossumWorks
Mark
Neville Kilford wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
>
> Phil,
>
> There's one thing I don't understand -- what is the purpose of the fuselink
> between the battery bus and essential bus, when there's a fuse there too?
> Have I missed something?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Nev
>
> --
> Jodel D150 in progress
> UK
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Master Bus Wire Size
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach"
> <phil@petrasoft.net>
> >
> > Howdy all,
> >
> > I have modified the 'All Electric Airplane on a Budget' distribution
> diagram
> > to include the OV protection on the internally regulated alternator. I
> have
> > two questions...
> >
> > One does anybody see anything that will cause me any grief? and two, I
> > noticed that I am missing the wire size between the main bus and the
> battery
> > contactor. I considered 4AWG just to be on the safe side but I was
> > wondering if there was any need to go with wire that big or if I could get
> > away with something smaller. I am trying to build the system around a 40A
> > alternator but with the capability to go to 60A in the future if I decide
> > to.
> >
> > Here is a *.pdf of the system so far...
> >
> > http://www.myrv7.com/drawings/727WB-001.pdf
> >
> > Godspeed,
> >
> > Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> > RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
> > http://www.myrv7.com
> >
> >
>
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:38 AM 7/17/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
>Bob,
>
>Found this old link in the archives, which is no longer active. Is this
>file available elsewhere on your site?
>http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/wiring/s401-25.jpg
That photo was part of the website catalog for parts
and materials that are no longer offered for sale
from my website. Many of the pictures associated with
the catalog are still useful for illustrative purposes
so I've created a directory on the server as a repository
for photos. You can find the one you're looking for
at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures
Bob. . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Bob - Substitution of Electrical Parts |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:09 PM 7/16/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I went to Radio Shack today and based on inventory, I had to substitute a
>few items for the test adaptor. Are the substituted items ok?
>
>1) 274-1569 Size M Coaxial DC power plug in place of 274-1573
>
>2) 274-1563 Size M Coaxial DC power jack in place of 274-1576
>
>3) 271-153A 1K Ohm, 1 watt resistor in place of 1K Ohm, 1/2 watt resistor
>
>4) Is the direction of the resistor important (color bands go brown,
>black, red, and gold in order)?
Resistors are not polarity sensitive.
>5) Can I assume that you have no problem with anything I said below Re the
>check list?
No, that's fine.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Master Bus Wire Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:32 PM 7/16/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford"
><nkilford@etravel.org>
>
>Phil,
>
>There's one thing I don't understand -- what is the purpose of the fuselink
>between the battery bus and essential bus, when there's a fuse there too?
>Have I missed something?
circuit protection is used to save a wire from
damage due to faulting of a high current power
source that can include an alternator but most
certainly includes a battery.
If you study the power sources available to drive
the e-bus alternate feed path, there are
sources at BOTH ends. You COULD use a fuse slot
on the e-bus as a protected alternate path feed
point OR use the fusible link. Many folks had
installed 6 slot e-bus fuse holders and the fusible
link seemed the most useful way to achieve some
level of protection and not give up an e-bus
distribution fuse. If you have plenty of slots
on the e-bus, then using one of them in place
of the fusible link is a better deal. Fuses
are MUCH faster than fusible links.
Phil, did you see my note on wiring the
alternator b-lead disconnect contactor?
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Master Bus Wire Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
Mark,
Thanks; so the fuselink is to protect the under normal conditions, and not
when operating the e-bus alternate. As it is, they'll be on the inside of
the firewall on my plane (which is wood -- Yay!), and immediately adjacent to
each other, which should keep problems to a minimum. The only major feeds
will be the ones from the battery contactor.
You raise a good point about wires coming adrift -- is there a preferred way
of securing the posts on the Bussman products, or is the supplied shakeproof
washer and nut considered adequate? Same goes for the contactors -- are the
shakeproof washers considered alright? Obviously the latter are easier to
check being on full view, but what about for the ones buried away
somewhere...
Cheers.
Nev
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <ripsteel@edge.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Master Bus Wire Size
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
> Hi Nev-
>
> Picture the wire coming adrift from the #2 terminal on the "E-bus alternate
feed"
> switch and contacting any ground (under normal main bus operation with this
switch
> open) Not a pretty picture.
>
> Unless the main and e-bus fuseblocks are immediately adjacent and the
connecting wire
> is really short, this connection should also be protected. Re-locating the
fuselink
> from the e-bus alternate feed to e-bus normal feed (at the main bus end)
would do
> this, and protect the alternate feed wire as well. Optionally, the e-buss
normal
> feed could come from one of the fuses on the main bus block (properly
sized, of
> course).
>
> I would also recommend a really good in-line fuse or fuselink on the main
bus feed
> wire at the battery contactor if this wire passes through the firewall or
is of any
> substantial length- 6" or longer is one guideline, ditto the battery bus
supply feed
> at the battery contactor, depending on wire length & routing- the drawing
does show
> this as 6" or less (*) And if we REALLY want to get anal, I'd connect the
batt bus
> feed at the battery, eliminating one connection there as well. YMMV...
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Master Bus Wire Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
> If you study the power sources available to drive
> the e-bus alternate feed path, there are
> sources at BOTH ends.
Bingo. The point being that the cable to the alt. feed switch is long and
routes around the houses, and thus should be protected... I have a couple of
spares on the ess. bus, so I'll use one of them.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Master Bus Wire Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
That's what happens when I cut and paste. :-) I updated the file...
http://www.myrv7.com/drawings/727WB-001.pdf
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Master Bus Wire Size
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 04:50 PM 7/15/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach"
> ><phil@petrasoft.net>
> >
> >Howdy all,
> >
> >I have modified the 'All Electric Airplane on a Budget' distribution
diagram
> >to include the OV protection on the internally regulated alternator. I
have
> >two questions...
> >
> >One does anybody see anything that will cause me any grief? and two, I
> >noticed that I am missing the wire size between the main bus and the
battery
> >contactor. I considered 4AWG just to be on the safe side but I was
> >wondering if there was any need to go with wire that big or if I could
get
> >away with something smaller. I am trying to build the system around a
40A
> >alternator but with the capability to go to 60A in the future if I decide
> >to.
> >
> >Here is a *.pdf of the system so far...
> >
> >http://www.myrv7.com/drawings/727WB-001.pdf
>
> Phil, just noticed a small problem with the diagram you
> published . . .
>
> Feedwire to the alternator b-lead disconnect contactor
> coil is the (+) supply to the contactor. The OTHER end
> should, therefore, go to ground and not to the (+) power
> that resides on the fat terminal. The diode across the coil
> needs to be reversed also.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | RingTerminalSource |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
Bob, the new B&C site does not have all the items you used to provide. I'm looking
for an uninsulated ring terminal for #2 wire and a hole for a #10 stud.
The best I've found so far is a Panduit product from DigiKey with a minimum order
of 10. I need 2. Who made the terminals you used to stock? Do you know
of any onsey-twosey quantity suppliers?
If I were doing it, I wouldn't spread the product info out over so many screens
the way B&C has. I liked your indexed approach much better.
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RingTerminalSource |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:21 PM 7/17/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
>
>Bob, the new B&C site does not have all the items you used to
>provide. I'm looking for an uninsulated ring terminal for #2 wire and a
>hole for a #10 stud. The best I've found so far is a Panduit product from
>DigiKey with a minimum order of 10. I need 2. Who made the terminals you
>used to stock? Do you know of any onsey-twosey quantity suppliers?
Found the terminal you're looking for at
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?25X358218
>If I were doing it, I wouldn't spread the product info out over so many
>screens the way B&C has. I liked your indexed approach much better.
Dave,
Understand. That's the reason I maintained the parts catalog
on my website for so long after B&C took over the business.
Now, here's your opportunity as a responsible and thoughtful
consumer to make a difference. Drop Todd a note at
mailto:todd@bandc.biz and give him your impressions of the
new format. He'll no doubt pass it along to Bill.
Like my business and any other business, they exist to
service customers. If you or anyone else on the list
has constructive critical review to offer, I'm sure
they'd like to know about it. They might not be "happy"
about it . . . they have a LOT of labor invested in
a website that looked like a good "package deal" . . .
This format might work for selling cars or furniture
but it DOESN'T work well for selling nuts, bolts,
and screws. I tried to convince Bill of this when he
signed up for the service. Now its YOUR turn. Frankly,
the consumer generally has a lot more influence than
most hi-dollar consultants.
It's up to you guys now . . .
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Master Bus Wire Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
Unless I hear something more appropriate, I was planning on a star, or toothed
lock
washer -"shakeproof" on your side of the pond? Very cool! 8-) -and a nylock
nut. Not sure whether internal or external teeth would be better for the
application, but with carefully cleaned terminals and appropriate torque, methinks
this would stay put until insulation rot sets in... Securing conductors to nearby
structure as close to the connection as possible is also helpful- minimizes chance
for loosening and if one somehow does come off, less possibility it will find
something of opposing polarity...
Other suggestions?
Mark
>
> You raise a good point about wires coming adrift -- is there a preferred way
> of securing the posts on the Bussman products, or is the supplied shakeproof
> washer and nut considered adequate? Same goes for the contactors -- are the
> shakeproof washers considered alright? Obviously the latter are easier to
> check being on full view, but what about for the ones buried away
> somewhere...
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Master Bus Wire Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
I suppose it's a numbers game -- trying to think about events & consequences
and then trying to think up a solution. As you say, pinning down the cable
is a good way to prevent shorts, although a wooden structure helps!
I think the shakeproof (star) washers *and* a nylock nut should be more than
adequate! I was thinking that the supplied nut and a blob of loctite should
do the trick.
I suppose regular inspection of these things is the answer, though I'd rather
not be crawling around inside the plane every fortnight. I'll start off
inspecting regularly and then ease up when it looks stable.
Nev
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <ripsteel@edge.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Master Bus Wire Size
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
> Unless I hear something more appropriate, I was planning on a star, or
toothed lock
> washer -"shakeproof" on your side of the pond? Very cool! 8-) -and a
nylock
> nut. Not sure whether internal or external teeth would be better for the
> application, but with carefully cleaned terminals and appropriate torque,
methinks
> this would stay put until insulation rot sets in... Securing conductors to
nearby
> structure as close to the connection as possible is also helpful- minimizes
chance
> for loosening and if one somehow does come off, less possibility it will
find
> something of opposing polarity...
>
> Other suggestions?
> Mark
>
> >
> > You raise a good point about wires coming adrift -- is there a preferred
way
> > of securing the posts on the Bussman products, or is the supplied
shakeproof
> > washer and nut considered adequate? Same goes for the contactors -- are
the
> > shakeproof washers considered alright? Obviously the latter are easier
to
> > check being on full view, but what about for the ones buried away
> > somewhere...
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | B-Crimp terminals... |
boeing.com>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:05 AM 7/17/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I just had a look at the URL you indicated was where B&C sold the
>terminals, but could not find the correct part. The terminal I speak of is
>inserted into the connector at the alternator end, and I believe it's
>usually sold in a strip. They are not insulated. Where can I get them? B&C
>aren't responding.
I appears this thread suffered some multiple
response overlap and disconnect. The field
terminal I would use on my B&C alternator would
be a single PIDG 1/4" faston female spade
receptacle. I'd pitch the nylon plastic
connector housing. The PIDG terminal is
superior technology to the unplated, b-crimp
terminal supplied with the ND alternator.
I used to stock a replacement terminal like
you inquired about. Any that I had would have
gone to B&C when they bought the parts business.
I'd like to believe they can supply new ones.
Are you using e-mail or did you try to call?
Call direct at 316.283.8000 and see if they
won't help you . . . but a single PIDG Faston
will work just fine too.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Master Bus Wire Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
I'd hesitate to use any thread sealant- I am doubtful it is very conductive stuff-
(maybe some special products I don't know about lock threads AND pass current)
We
ARE trying to shove electrons through these connections and they just bounce off
of
most non-metals! 8-)
Mark
> I think the shakeproof (star) washers *and* a nylock nut should be more than
> adequate! I was thinking that the supplied nut and a blob of loctite should
> do the trick.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Master Bus Wire Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
True enough, but I'd have thought that little of the current would transfer
through the thread part, and virtually all through the base of the nut, the
flat part of the ring terminal, and hence wouldn't be affected by a smear of
loctite. Still, as you say, perhaps it's not a good idea. Anyway, perhaps
I'm being unduly cautious.
Could always lockwire them...
Nev
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <ripsteel@edge.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Master Bus Wire Size
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
> I'd hesitate to use any thread sealant- I am doubtful it is very conductive
stuff-
> (maybe some special products I don't know about lock threads AND pass
current) We
> ARE trying to shove electrons through these connections and they just
bounce off of
> most non-metals! 8-)
>
> Mark
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: KX-125 problem |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green <mailindex@juno.com>
Bob,
Well I finally got the radio back and they replaced the power amp this
time. They reported that the powere amp was drawing excessive current
and found a burned pc track. The first time it was a diode. The radio
shop said that I might have a short in the audio panel, when I told them
I dont have an audio panel, they said maybe a headset jack had a short.
I spoke with a man at King and he felt that it might have been a voltage
spike and that I should install an avionics master!! He also suggested a
loose wire could cause a spike. He also said that this was specualtion
on his part and he didn't really know that there was anything in the
airframe that would cause this. At this point, I think all i can do is
to check all my connections and fly around for a while monitoring the
buss voltage.
Any ideas???
On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:35:50 -0500 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net> writes:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 04:10 PM 7/6/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green
> <mailindex@juno.com>
> >
> >Bob,
> >I put my volt meter on the bus and flew around for half an hour and
> the
> >voltage varied between 14.24 to 14.27 and never strayed outside of
> that.
> >I couldn't really change the load because I don't have anything to
> turn
> >on and off, the only electric things in the plane are the radio
> which
> >isn't in the plane and a transponder and an intercom. I turned the
> >intercom on and off and that didn't change anything.
>
> That small a load change wouldn't help diagnose much in the way
> of alternator problems. You don't have any lighting equipment
> you can turn on? If your airplane is so lightly outfitted,
> I'd recommend you borrow a battery shop load tester, hook
> it to the battery with the engine running up 2,000 rpm or so
> and crank the load up to 25-40 amps as see that the
> panel voltmeter confirms an ability and willingness of
> the alternator to properly accept such loads.
>
> >The radio shop has the radio and I am hoping to hear from them
> tomorrow
> >as to what is wrong with it. Could a loose wire, say the power
> wire on
> >the back of the alternator cause a voltage spike? Shouldn't a
> radio be
> >able to handle something like that? If it were a case of the
> regulator
> >allowing the alternator to charge to its hearts content, I have a
> feeling
> >that I would smell the battery outgassing, it is only about a foot
> away
> >from me.
> >
> >Thanks again for your help.
>
> If you have a bus voltage high enough to outgas an RG battery,
> the OV protection system should have tripped the alternator
> of line a long time ago. If the ov protection system is
> functional, it should protect the airplane from miscreant
> regulators and alternators.
>
> See what the radio shop says. Be skeptical of any diagnosis
> based upon your airplane having "spiked" the radio. This is a
> common
> methodology for pushing root cause off onto the airplane . . .
> especially when the technician doesn't really understand how
> the radio failed. I'm not saying it never happens but after
> 4 decades of chasing gremlins in airplanes, I can tell you
> that technicians attribute spikes with far greater penchant for
> evil than the reality of good science can confirm.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list
>
>
>
>
>
>
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Master Bus Wire Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
Don't worry about the loctite. When you tighten the nut, the threads
still make the same metal to metal contact they would make without the
loctite. All the loctite does is fill up the gaps where there isn't any
contact and harden to hold things in place.
And, yes, the majority of current will flow from the bottom where the
ring lug touches the terminal.
Dick Tasker
Neville Kilford wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
>
>True enough, but I'd have thought that little of the current would transfer
>through the thread part, and virtually all through the base of the nut, the
>flat part of the ring terminal, and hence wouldn't be affected by a smear of
>loctite. Still, as you say, perhaps it's not a good idea. Anyway, perhaps
>I'm being unduly cautious.
>
>Could always lockwire them...
>
>Nev
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Phillips" <ripsteel@edge.net>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Master Bus Wire Size
>
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>>
>>I'd hesitate to use any thread sealant- I am doubtful it is very conductive
>>
>>
>stuff-
>
>
>>(maybe some special products I don't know about lock threads AND pass
>>
>>
>current) We
>
>
>>ARE trying to shove electrons through these connections and they just
>>
>>
>bounce off of
>
>
>>most non-metals! 8-)
>>
>>Mark
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Common questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rwilliams" <rwilliams@C1ama.net>
I have already bought it!
Message 20
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ron Patterson <scc_ron@yahoo.com>
Hey Fellas,
I just received my Dynon EFIS via UPS on Wednesday (#287). What a fantastic piece
of engineering!!. I ordered the aux battery feature, and as I unpacked the
unit I couldn't find the Battery. As I was about to call and ask, I pushed the
left button and the thing lit up!
Turns out they even engineered the Lithium Battery into the unit!
Did you know it also has space on the screen, via toggle, to download custom checklists
for you and your aircraft?
Made a call to Paul, on of Dynon's designers / engineers to praise their work and
asked about the Angle of Attack and the OAT modes. Both of these interface
with the present unit, but the Pitot and the OAT sensors are not quite ready for
distribution. They should be available to us in the next few months.
So, if your considering this option instead of traditional (or, like me, in tandem
with Airspeed and Altimeter), you will be totally happy with this unit. I'm
anxious to see how they do on their next projects (GPS, Engine Monitor, Autopilot).
I have no affiliation with the company, just a satisfied customer...
Ron Patterson
RV-4
N8ZD (reserved)
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Professsional Panel Construction? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ron Patterson <scc_ron@yahoo.com>
Anybody know where I can get a panel for my RV-4 that is custom made? I have most
of the avionics and need a fabricated unit to bolt up my radios to and plug
in the wiring. (also want a pre-wired package prepared for me by an expert)
Ron Patterson
scc_ron@yahoo.com
510-421-2316
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Master Bus Wire Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:57 PM 7/17/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Phillips <ripsteel@edge.net>
>
>I'd hesitate to use any thread sealant- I am doubtful it is very
>conductive stuff-
>(maybe some special products I don't know about lock threads AND pass
>current) We
>ARE trying to shove electrons through these connections and they just
>bounce off of
>most non-metals! 8-)
Thread lockers increase friction in the threaded
joint by filling VOIDS in engaged threads with a
material with some degree of "stickiness" and
moderate shear strength.
While applying assembly torque to a threaded fastener
with a non-corrosive thread locker, the compression
strength of the thread locker is ZERO . . .it is, after
all, in a liquid state. Even after it sets up, compression
strength of thread lockers is really low . . . on the
same order as hard rubber.
Anywhere a threaded fasteners is inclined to form a
high quality electrical contact, forces
would be so high as to extrude the thread locker material
out of the way in favor of metal-to-metal contact.
Thread lockers on hardware applied with recommended
torque do not degrade electrical performance of the
ability of threads to carry current.
Having said that, consider further that 90+ percent
of the current carrying duty happens between the face
of a terminal and the surface that it is mashed against.
A conservative design for threaded fastener joint
ASSUMES that the clamping nut carries no current.
Obviously, it carries some but it should not be
depended upon as a significant carrier.
In the certified world, we avoid gunks, goos and
stickums as much as possible for any purpose. They
tend to be very process sensitive as to craftsmanship
of the finished product. For the case in point, an
all metal locking nut would be used to secure a ring
terminal on a stud.
I'm not sure that the contactors and fuseholders
will allow that kind of installation torque and
not have the stud rotate.
I think the internal tooth, phosphor bronze lockwasher
and all brass hardware combination is a reasonable
compromise. But if you wanted to use a thread locking
compound on the nut, it won't hurn anything.
Bob . . .
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Thread Locker on Electrical Terminals? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:35 PM 7/17/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
><retasker@optonline.net>
>
>Don't worry about the loctite. When you tighten the nut, the threads
>still make the same metal to metal contact they would make without the
>loctite. All the loctite does is fill up the gaps where there isn't any
>contact and harden to hold things in place.
>
>And, yes, the majority of current will flow from the bottom where the
>ring lug touches the terminal.
>
>Dick Tasker
Gee Dick, should have checked further up the list on this
thread, you beat me to it! Good reply.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Strobe shield grounding question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
I'm installing the Whelen Comet Flash power supply (single central p/s for
both wingtip and tail strobes) in my RV-7, and I'm a little confused about
how I should ground the shielding on the strobe wires.
The Whelen instructions say to "GROUND SHIELD WIRE AT POWER SUPPLY END."
Now, if I didn't know any better, I would just run 'em to a ring terminal
and locally ground them to one of the power supply mount bolts.
But I *think* I know better...and would like to run the ground all the way
back to the 24/48 ground tab forest at the firewall. The question is this:
can "this ground" share the same wire as the power supply's ground wire, or
should it be run separately?
Or...am I really over-thinking this and locally grounding the shield won't
induce any noise?
I really don't mind running an extra wire to insure that there won't be
noise, but if I can share the existing 14AWG ground wire I'll be a happy
camper.
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
Message 25
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| Subject: | Strobe shield grounding question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
(sorry if this is a duplicate message)
I'm installing the Whelen Comet Flash power supply (single central p/s for
both wingtip and tail strobes) in my RV-7, and I'm a little confused about
how I should ground the shielding on the strobe wires.
The Whelen instructions say to "GROUND SHIELD WIRE AT POWER SUPPLY END."
Now, if I didn't know any better, I would just run 'em to a ring terminal
and locally ground them to one of the power supply mount bolts.
But I *think* I know better...and would like to run the ground all the way
back to the 24/48 ground tab forest at the firewall. The question is this:
can "this ground" share the same wire as the power supply's ground wire, or
should it be run separately?
Or...am I really over-thinking this and locally grounding the shield won't
induce any noise?
I really don't mind running an extra wire to insure that there won't be
noise, but if I can share the existing 14AWG ground wire I'll be a happy
camper.
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Master Bus Wire Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> I think the internal tooth, phosphor bronze lockwasher
> and all brass hardware combination is a reasonable
> compromise. But if you wanted to use a thread locking
> compound on the nut, it won't hurn anything.
Thanks for the scoop, Bob.
I think the area where I have the most concern about fasteners loosening up
is on the terminal strips I bought from Radio Snack. I'm trying to decide
whether to use Loctite, Vibra-Tite (brush-on air-dry nylok), or just try to
find some #6 internal tooth lock washers...this is for the #6 ring terminals
that B&C sells, btw, in case that matters. You mentioned brass hardware,
but does that imply brass ring terminals? Is that what material these
suckers are anyway?
Sorry for all the questions, I'm just curious.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 27
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Don Honabach" <don@pcperfect.com>
Ron,
I got one of these units as well (about 2 or 3 months ago). Great unit
and can't wait for my AOA Pitot.
I've also gone ahead and installed a RS232 port so I can upgrade the
firmware on the unit. Might be something to find a spot for now if your
in the panel planning stages. I'm pretty sure these guys are going to be
upgrading the firmware a lot in the next year or two as the tweak and
improve the ucode.
Regards,
Don Honabach
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Patterson [mailto:scc_ron@yahoo.com]
Subject:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ron Patterson
--> <scc_ron@yahoo.com>
Hey Fellas,
I just received my Dynon EFIS via UPS on Wednesday (#287). What a
fantastic piece of engineering!!. I ordered the aux battery feature, and
as I unpacked the unit I couldn't find the Battery. As I was about to
call and ask, I pushed the left button and the thing lit up! Turns out
they even engineered the Lithium Battery into the unit!
Did you know it also has space on the screen, via toggle, to download
custom checklists for you and your aircraft?
Made a call to Paul, on of Dynon's designers / engineers to praise their
work and asked about the Angle of Attack and the OAT modes. Both of
these interface with the present unit, but the Pitot and the OAT sensors
are not quite ready for distribution. They should be available to us in
the next few months.
So, if your considering this option instead of traditional (or, like me,
in tandem with Airspeed and Altimeter), you will be totally happy with
this unit. I'm anxious to see how they do on their next projects (GPS,
Engine Monitor, Autopilot).
I have no affiliation with the company, just a satisfied customer... Ron
Patterson RV-4 N8ZD (reserved)
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 28
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| Subject: | LED Position Lights |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
This weekend I will finish up a document on making your own LED position lights.
This is a little too large for the Aeroelectric but I will post it on my website
later.
If you want to see it and comment on it please email me off list--Email: emjones@charter.net
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
"Nothing is too wonderful to be true."
- James Clerk Maxwell, discoverer of electromagnetism
"Too much of a good thing can be wonderful."
- Mae West, discoverer of personal magnetism
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Dynon/SL70 Encoding |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I had my SL30 and SL70 trays pre-wired when I bought the radios. My
Dynon arrived yesterday (yes, it's very cool). I'm trying to wire the
encoder functions between the two.
The SL70 diagram from their web site illustrates everything nicely.
Everything matches my pre-wire job. Except pin 35 (AKA input "D4") is
not wired. Hmm. Why not?
Using the cooresponding diagram for the Dynon, I've wired all the
encoder wires/pins, except one. Dynon calls it "Encoder - COM". It
doesn't seem to have a mate on the SL70 end of the wire.
So, should I conclude "Encoder - COM" should be paired with "D4" and
wire them together?
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Master Bus Wire Size) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Phil, your wiring schematic in pdf is very sharp and clear when I zoom in,
unlike my dwg files printed thru FinePrint's pdfFactory to get pdf
conversion (dwg's come out totally unusable from my Intellicad software) and
unlike dxf files printed thru FinePrint's pdfFactory (barely readable when
zoom - NOT clear & sharp.)
What drawing format did you start with to convert to pdf and what did you
"print to" - to convert to pdf?
Bob Nuckolls said a day or two ago that there is some "magic" involved -
something about increasing line size or some such.
Just trying to get a better understanding of how to REALLY convert from dwg
or dxf to readable pdf.
David Carter
Nederland (85 mi east of you there in Houston) - - - Where are you building?
At home? At David Wayne Hooks Aprt?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Master Bus Wire Size
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach"
<phil@petrasoft.net>
>
> That's what happens when I cut and paste. :-) I updated the file...
>
> http://www.myrv7.com/drawings/727WB-001.pdf
>
> Godspeed,
>
> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy
> http://www.myrv7.com
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon/SL70 Encoding |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N67BT@aol.com
Larry,
According to UPSAT tech support the D4 is left unconnected.
Bob Trumpfheller
> The SL70 diagram from their web site illustrates everything nicely.
> Everything matches my pre-wire job. Except pin 35 (AKA input "D4") is
> not wired. Hmm. Why not?
Message 32
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| Subject: | Dynon/SL70 Encoding |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I'm confused then. Looking at their documentation, D4 is pin 35. Or am
I looking at it wrong?
http://www.upsat.com/dwnlds/stackdoc/fullstackwiring.pdf <--bottom,
right corner.
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: N67BT@aol.com [mailto:N67BT@aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 11:54 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon/SL70 Encoding
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N67BT@aol.com
>
> Larry,
>
> According to UPSAT tech support the D4 is left unconnected.
>
> Bob Trumpfheller
>
> > The SL70 diagram from their web site illustrates everything nicely.
> > Everything matches my pre-wire job. Except pin 35 (AKA
> input "D4") is
> > not wired. Hmm. Why not?
>
>
> ==========
> Matronics Forums.
> ==========
> List members.
> ==========
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
> Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
> ==========
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: terminal strips |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:56 PM 7/17/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> > I think the internal tooth, phosphor bronze lockwasher
> > and all brass hardware combination is a reasonable
> > compromise. But if you wanted to use a thread locking
> > compound on the nut, it won't hurn anything.
>
>Thanks for the scoop, Bob.
>
>I think the area where I have the most concern about fasteners loosening up
>is on the terminal strips I bought from Radio Snack. I'm trying to decide
>whether to use Loctite, Vibra-Tite (brush-on air-dry nylok), or just try to
>find some #6 internal tooth lock washers...this is for the #6 ring terminals
>that B&C sells, btw, in case that matters. You mentioned brass hardware,
>but does that imply brass ring terminals? Is that what material these
>suckers are anyway?
oooohhhh . . . how did you decide to insert so many threaded
fasteners into your system? I really do my best to inject no
threaded fastener where it can be avoided.
When I mention brass hardware, I'm speaking of the fabrication
and installation of things like our ground blocks and the
use of all brass hardware for firewall penetration bolts,
contactor studs, etc. Most barrier strips are plated brass
but I wasn't even thinking about those . . . I don't think
I've ever used one in an airborne design unless the customer
specified it.
If terminal strips are needed in airplanes, they're generally
the fixed stud type, like the not to clear picture here:
http://www.edmo.com/s2/s2-40.asp
These male threaded studs accept lock nuts for security
of the joint.
You'll note that non-locking barrier strips are offered
at the bottom of the same page . . . but as I mentioned
before, these rarely fine their way onto an airplane
for good cause. You might consider nylock screws. There's
just no really elegant way to toughen these things up.
Bob . . .
Message 34
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
A friend of mine has just installed a Delphi XM radio in a Berkut 540,
feeding a PS 2000 intercom. We're using Lightspeed headsets.
Prior to the radio install the audio system was fine, now there's a very
loud high pitched whine. The whine varies pitch directly with engine RPM.
Three things make the whine stop completely - shutting off the alt. field,
disconnecting the audio output from the XM radio to the music input of the
intercom, and disconnecting the power going to the XM radio. Turning the
radio off doesn't stop the whine.
The radio was wired directly to the battery (with an inline fuse), then
wired to the battery through a 20 amp Radio Shack noise filter. The filter
does nothing.
We're about to fly from Los Angeles to Kitty Hawk, to Dayton, Oshkosh,
Texas and back to LA. Music would make the trip much nicer. Any suggestions?
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: terminal strips |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> oooohhhh . . . how did you decide to insert so many threaded
> fasteners into your system? I really do my best to inject no
> threaded fastener where it can be avoided.
Good question. I do have a 10-circuit AMP Commercial MATE-N-LOK connector
and pins...I suppose that's just as good as a terminal strip for being able
to reassign functions by simply moving pins, huh (this is for stick switch
wiring assignments). Hm...maybe I'll switch to the connector.
I kind of like the ability to reassign the buttons on the stick fairly
easily if need be, but jeez...now that it's all working, how often am I
going to want to switch which way the plane goes when you push the coolie
hat to the left...hm... 8-)
It's good to bounce stuff off you...thanks again.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 36
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| Subject: | Electrics/electronics education question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: drew.schumann@us.army.mil
I am a new listmember and a new A&P. I was hired by a local airport, in the hopes
that I could "grow into" the job, and become an avionics technician as well.
After four weeks on the job, I was called to active duty and am currently
in Iraq. As a result of my MOS not being in very big demand, I have a lot of
spare time, and I'd like to make the maximum use of that time. I am currently
studying for my FCC General license using a pre-programmed curriculum and have
a good theoretical knowledge of electricity/electronics, but what I lack is
actual experience.
So. My question to the list, is, "What would be a good way to gain experience
with electronic stuff, having rather limited access to equipment I can actually
touch a mess with?" I've rewired a couple fans with burned out computer chips
(computer chips, in a fan?????) and troubleshot/cleaned up/resoldered connection
in a captured Iraqi mine detector, but I'd like something a little more
systematic and all-encompassing. Would it be a good idea to get one of those
101 or 1001 experiments in electricity/electronics? Or maybe buy some plans/kits
from radio shack? I'm handicapped by not being able to visit the local mall
every time I need a diode or somesuch. Can anyone recommend a good kit or
experiment set?
Anything that will reinforce the books I'm reading would be fine. Thank you for
being understanding. It seems like everyone is so incredibly understanding.
From my boss (who has given me a shot at being able to do what I love, 20 miles
from my current home) to the fine folks back in the states that send letters
of support and care packages.
Thank you,
Drew
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Electrics/electronics education question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
I don't have the expertise to put together a kit that would be useful, but
I'll contribute $20 toward it if anyone will put it together and send it out.
You may be beyond it, but Bob has a Navy electronics course on his server,
zipped PDF files. You can download it at http://216.55.140.222/CD/Text.zip
At 09:36 AM 7/18/03 +0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: drew.schumann@us.army.mil
>
>I am a new listmember and a new A&P. I was hired by a local airport, in
>the hopes that I could "grow into" the job, and become an avionics
>technician as well. After four weeks on the job, I was called to active
>duty and am currently in Iraq. As a result of my MOS not being in very
>big demand, I have a lot of spare time, and I'd like to make the maximum
>use of that time. I am currently studying for my FCC General license
>using a pre-programmed curriculum and have a good theoretical knowledge of
>electricity/electronics, but what I lack is actual experience.
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Electrics/electronics education question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: drew.schumann@us.army.mil
By the way, I just ordered the aeroelectric manual and CD.
Drew
----- Original Message -----
From: drew.schumann@us.army.mil
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electrics/electronics education question
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: drew.schumann@us.army.mil
>
> I am a new listmember and a new A&P. I was hired by a local
> airport, in the hopes that I could "grow into" the job, and become
> an avionics technician as well. After four weeks on the job, I
> was called to active duty and am currently in Iraq. As a result
> of my MOS not being in very big demand, I have a lot of spare
> time, and I'd like to make the maximum use of that time. I am
> currently studying for my FCC General license using a pre-
> programmed curriculum and have a good theoretical knowledge of
> electricity/electronics, but what I lack is actual experience.
>
> So. My question to the list, is, "What would be a good way to
> gain experience with electronic stuff, having rather limited
> access to equipment I can actually touch a mess with?" I've
> rewired a couple fans with burned out computer chips (computer
> chips, in a fan?????) and troubleshot/cleaned up/resoldered
> connection in a captured Iraqi mine detector, but I'd like
> something a little more systematic and all-encompassing. Would it
> be a good idea to get one of those 101 or 1001 experiments in
> electricity/electronics? Or maybe buy some plans/kits from radio
> shack? I'm handicapped by not being able to visit the local mall
> every time I need a diode or somesuch. Can anyone recommend a
> good kit or experiment set?
>
> Anything that will reinforce the books I'm reading would be fine.
> Thank you for being understanding. It seems like everyone is so
> incredibly understanding. From my boss (who has given me a shot
> at being able to do what I love, 20 miles from my current home) to
> the fine folks back in the states that send letters of support and
> care packages.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Drew
>
>
> _-
> _-
> _-
> _-
> ======================================================================
>
>
>
>
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