Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:51 AM - EFIS panel (Herbert Schmaderer)
2. 03:19 AM - Re: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer (Neville Kilford)
3. 05:34 AM - Re: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer (Peter Laurence)
4. 05:42 AM - Re: Cell phone interference with avionics. (Finn Lassen)
5. 06:14 AM - Re: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer (Gerry Holland)
6. 06:45 AM - Re: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer (Larry Bowen)
7. 07:00 AM - Shielding the tach lead (lasar noise) (Eric M. Jones)
8. 07:57 AM - Re: Rotax regulator question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 08:24 AM - Re: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 09:56 AM - Re: Shielding the tach lead (Duncan McBride)
11. 10:05 AM - Re: Shielding the tach lead (lasar noise) (Duncan McBride)
12. 10:05 AM - Re: Cell phone interference with avionics. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 10:54 AM - Re: EFIS panel (Dan Checkoway)
14. 02:58 PM - Re: Shielding the tach lead (lasar noise) (Alex Peterson)
15. 04:10 PM - Re: Aeroelectric-List: Knock Sensors (Richard Swiderski)
16. 06:00 PM - Re: Aeroelectric-List: Knock Sensors (Jon Finley)
17. 07:29 PM - Fw: Shielding the tach lead (David Carter)
18. 10:34 PM - Master Switch Warning Light/Buzzer (Hebeard2@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Herbert Schmaderer" <herbert.schmaderer@aon.at>
Good morning friends!
I am new to this forum and seek the expertise of this group. I own a Pulsar kitplane
with conventional instrumentaion. In a planed redesign I would like to fit
modern electronic EFIS and EIS to the panel. Any suggestins regarding product
and sources at reasonable prices?
regards
Herbert
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neville Kilford" <nkilford@etravel.org>
Hello Walt,
You could use an oil pressure switch for a "nag" buzzer, that would sound
when the engine is off (i.e. low oil pressure) and the master is on. Trouble
is, in its most simple form, it would sound when you first switch on the
master and before you start the engine, which would be tiresome, especially
if you like to get clearances, ATIS, etc before you start the engine. You
could get round that, if you have a master bus / essential bus kind of
system, by putting it on the master bus and powering radios temporarily
(which, presumably are on the ess. bus) by using the ess. bus. alt. feed
switch.
It's still a bit of a drag though, but it is simple.
Better yet would be a small electronic circuit that would only power up when
the engine was first started, and then trigger the alarm next time it was
stopped. I'm sure it would be a simple circuit (don't ask me what it would
be though!). Perhaps, if there's enough interest in such a project, Bob
might be persuaded to manufacture and sell a circuit board as he did with the
audio isolator, or produce a circuit design.
Re the ground power plug. I've decided to go with a "Piper" type of socket.
You can get them cheaply from Aircraft Spruce, and I figure that every
airfield on the planet has that kind of connector on its GPU. You can buy a
matching plug for use at your own hangar.
Cheers.
Nev
--
Jodel D150 in progress
UK
----- Original Message -----
From: <RVEIGHTA@aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RVEIGHTA@aol.com
>
> Bob, any ideas about a cheap/easy solution to the problem of leaving the
> master on and running down the battery? I just did it today, and it's a
pain in
> th posterior. Like many homebuilts, my RV-8A has toggle switches for the
> master and L mag/elect. ignition, so it's easy to forgot to flip the master
off
> (for me at least).
>
> Avtek has a nice unit called the "1st Alert" but it's kinda pricy at $160.
> It's main job is to alert you to a bad alternator, broken alternator belt,
etc.,
> but any negative flow from the battery makes the panel light flash.
>
> Another question is do you have any suggestions or recommendations for an
> externally mounted power plug to be used to jump start an a/c with low
battery?
>
>
> Walt Shipley RV-8A
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Laurence" <plaurence@the-beach.net>
Geery
can tou give more details?
Brand part # etc.
Peter
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland
<gnholland@onetel.com>
>
> Walt Hi!
>
> > Another question is do you have any suggestions or recommendations for
an
> > externally mounted power plug to be used to jump start an a/c with low
> > battery?
>
> I've fitted a Aux. Power on port side of Aircraft viewable from P1 seat.
>
> It's from a Race Car shop. Based around lightweight Plastic Socket with
> matching input Plug with pullout handle. 2 versions. 50A and 175 Amp
>
> Will carry 'jump' leads in A/C so whenever onboard power feels lazy I can
> get a jump start from just about any 12V device. I went for 50Amp.
>
> Cost about $25 for 50A and $40 for 175A
>
>
> Gerry
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phone interference with avionics. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
Sure, if you have the cell phone only 10 inches away from the equipment!
So it really only applies to using a cell phone in the cockpit.
Also note that the test was "simulated" not actual cellphones.
Finn
Miles Simon wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Miles Simon" <Simon.Miles@skynet.be>
>
>
>The U.K. C.A.A. have published the results of their experiments of the
>effects of cell phone usage on avionics in aircraft. The report is at :
>
>http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAPAP2003_03.PDF
>
>In summary, the report says that cell phones do affect avionics.
>
>
>Simon Miles,
>Europa XS.
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Laurence"
> <plaurence@the-beach.net>
> Can you give more details?
Yes.
> Brand part # etc.
The Product comes from : Anderson Power Products
URL - http://www.andersonpower.com/products/mp/sb.html
For direct communications to establish Suppliers:
customerservice@andersonpower.com
The Company is based in USA in Sterling MA.
I used the 50 Amp version (SB50) and it's accessed via a small hinged Panel
in the rear of Top Engine Cowling. It can be ordered with a RED 'T' Handle
for ease of location and detachment. I was looking for something light as
the Piper and other Starter Trolley type connectors are quite heavy and more
difficult to locate due to size and depth.
The Company manufactures Units or 'pairs' up to 700A so my guess is
something in the range will fit.
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
Europa 384
G-FIZY
+44 7808 402404
gnholland@onetel.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I have my Grand Rapids engine monitor on the master buss. The general
warning light will illuminate before and after running the engine to
warn of low oil pressure as well as master switch on.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
2003 - The year of flight!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RVEIGHTA@aol.com [mailto:RVEIGHTA@aol.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 3:35 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RVEIGHTA@aol.com
>
> Bob, any ideas about a cheap/easy solution to the problem of
> leaving the
> master on and running down the battery? I just did it today,
> and it's a pain in
> th posterior. Like many homebuilts, my RV-8A has toggle
> switches for the
> master and L mag/elect. ignition, so it's easy to forgot to
> flip the master off
> (for me at least).
>
> Avtek has a nice unit called the "1st Alert" but it's kinda
> pricy at $160.
> It's main job is to alert you to a bad alternator, broken
> alternator belt, etc.,
> but any negative flow from the battery makes the panel light flash.
>
> Another question is do you have any suggestions or
> recommendations for an
> externally mounted power plug to be used to jump start an a/c
> with low battery?
>
>
> Walt Shipley RV-8A
Message 7
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| Subject: | Shielding the tach lead (lasar noise) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Suggestions:
Can you borrow another Lasar and swap?
Can you record the sound and post it on the web?
Radiated noise? Can you use the handheld to find the source more precisely?
(The antenna points to the source, and you can make remote antennas as search
probes).
What happens to the noise if you spray water on the prop, the wheels, other places?.
Have you considered just bad spark plug wires?
Is the Lasar ground good?
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax regulator question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:14 AM 8/3/2003 +0200, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Thesee Gilles
><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
>
>Bob,
>
>Thanks again for all your answers about the Rotax rectifier-regulator.
>I understand it is a standard design.
>Here is a question that has been nagging me :
>There have been insistant rumors in our area about destroying the
>regulator by disconnecting it from the battery while the engine is
>running.
>Our project is wired according to fig Z16 (out of memory), with dual
>batteries and ABMM, and includes a 22000 F capacitor.
>COULD switching off the the master switch do any harm to the
>regulator ? Same thing for the operation of the over voltage crowbar
>protection ?
>Or can the presence of the capacitor provide some means of protection ?
You got me. Without knowing specifics of components used in
their product (voltage ratings in particular) it is difficult
to tell. Given that the product has a DEMONSTRATED lack
of head-room for cooling, it is reasonable to be skeptical
of other aspects of their design. I suspect this product has
roots in the snowmobile market; never operated in
less than 10C weather. Further, single key-switch
operations for the whole system were acceptable to
the customer and operating conditions for the machine.
The unloaded voltage of the PM alternator may be well
above 50 volts at max RPM. This suggests some vulnerability
to a design that was never intended to withstand that
kind of stress.
If the gizmo is properly designed, it SHOULD simply
shut down when bus voltage is removed from the "C"
terminal and be quite comfortable with anything that
the PM alternator might throw at it. We have no
way of knowing if the original designer had this
in mind . . . Rotax's lame protestation about
not wiring their product like most airplane drivers
like to wire them suggest that they KNOW this wasn't
part of the original design -OR- they've had some
failures and truly don't know why. It's the later
condition that stimulates most stupid service
bulletins . . .
Bob . . .
--------------------------------------------
( Knowing about a thing is different than )
( understanding it. One can know a lot )
( and still understand nothing. )
( C.F. Kettering )
--------------------------------------------
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Master Switch Warning Light/buzzer |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:35 AM 8/3/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RVEIGHTA@aol.com
>
>Bob, any ideas about a cheap/easy solution to the problem of leaving the
>master on and running down the battery? I just did it today, and it's a
>pain in
>th posterior. Like many homebuilts, my RV-8A has toggle switches for the
>master and L mag/elect. ignition, so it's easy to forgot to flip the
>master off
>(for me at least).
>
>Avtek has a nice unit called the "1st Alert" but it's kinda pricy at $160.
>It's main job is to alert you to a bad alternator, broken alternator belt,
>etc.,
>but any negative flow from the battery makes the panel light flash.
I like the single pole, double throw oil pressure switch wired
to operate a low-oil pressure light and small buzzer when the
engine is shut down and EITHER the E-BUS ALT FEED or
DC MASTER switch is ON. This doesn't need to be a loud
buzzer . . . just enough to let you know that the system is
powered up. The other switch pole controls hour meter driven
by battery bus. See:
http://216.55.140.222/pps/Engine/Oil_P_Warn.pdf
>Another question is do you have any suggestions or recommendations for an
>externally mounted power plug to be used to jump start an a/c with low
>battery?
see http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Shielding the tach lead |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" <duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
The IVO is the ground adjustable version. I'll save this suggestion in case
that's the problem. Thanks, Duncan
----- Original Message -----
From: "mailbox bob at mail.flyboybob.com" <bob@flyboybob.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Shielding the tach lead
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "mailbox bob at
mail.flyboybob.com" <bob@flyboybob.com>
>
> Duncan,
>
> Is your prop the in flight adjustable version IVO prop? If so you could
use
> a S700-2-70 DPDT (on)-on-(on) switch and wire both leads to ground in the
> center position. This would give you a positive ground for the prop at
all
> times. You might try opening the prop circuit breaker and grounding both
> prop brushes directly to the engine. If this eliminates the noise then
you
> could proceed to getting the S700-2-70 switch installed. If your prop is
> only ground adjustable and your testing tells you this is a static problem
> you could order one slip ring/brush set form IVO and set up a prop ground
by
> using half of the in flight adjustable prop's electrical slip ring set and
> connect it to ground.
>
> Happy hunting, hope you kill this one soon!
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob Lee
> ______________________________
> N52BL KR2 Suwanee, GA 30024
> 91% done only 51% to go!
> Phone/Fax: 770/844-7501
> mailto:bob@flyboybob.com
> http://flyboybob.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David
> Carter
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Shielding the tach lead
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter"
> <dcarter@datarecall.net>
>
> Duncan,
>
> Don't miss Bob's point about P static (P is for "precipitation static"
which
> in my experience is "cloud/crystal ice particles static"). Don't get hung
> up on "precipitation" - just think "static electricity buildup" from prop
> blades rubbing through the air and building up a charge on the blades, and
> it not having a path to ground or into the plane and out the static
> dischargers
> - Ask the IVO prop folks or check your wiring info to see if you are
> supposed to have anything akin to a "grounding strap" that will carry
static
> from the whirling prop to the stationary airframe (fiberglas plane or
> aluminum? - I forget what you said earlier).
> - In the absence of an "engineered discharge path" as above, then the
> static will build up until it has enough voltage built up to jump the
first
> small gap it can "find" - at which point it jumps the small gap, making a
> spark - and noise - and does this faster as your prop rpm increases - so
is
> related to rpm, but not to ignition noises, as you have correctly observed
> already.
>
> In the A-7, we had to put bonding straps in strategic places to assure an
> unbroken path for static from nose to tail to stop the electricity from
> jumping from one big aluminum panel to the next on its journey from nose
to
> tail. After that fix, we could talk to each other in a formation and to
> folks on the ground when we were flying throught cirrus or stratus at
20,000
> feet or so.
>
> If you are getting this on the ground, stationary, then static discharge
> wicks on the tail feathers are not going to get rid of it. If, in fact,
you
> are getting static discharge noise from your plastic prop, then, for test
> purposes, you might have to try running a ground wire from the engine just
> aft of the prop. If we are at all close to the cause, you might have to
put
> at least a temporary "slip ring" or "wiper" (something springy on the
front
> of the engine case that will rub on some metal part of the prop and give
the
> static a "quiet path" off the prop onto the engine case and thence to
> ground.
> - If that eliminates the noise, then you and the prop manufacturer
will
> have a prototype to the prop maker's solution to HIS noise problem.
> - Or, thinking a bit more out of the box, put static discharger
wicks
> on each tip of the prop blades! I wonder how long they will last? And I
> wonder how you can attach them without destroying or degrading the
integrity
> of your prop?
>
> David Carter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Duncan McBride" <duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Shielding the tach lead
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride"
> <duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
> >
> > OK great, some stuff to try. I'll walk around with the engine at idle
and
> > see if the handheld picks up more noise anyplace. I'll get the guys at
> the
> > field to keep me from walking into the prop... and I have a fuel
shutoff
> > so I'll disconnect the p-leads and see about that.
> >
> > The prop is a three-blade IVO lightweight, carbon over foam with the
> > stainless tape leading edge protectors. It was purchased new and has
just
> > less than 70 hours, no problems with it. This is the one that has the
> metal
> > rods going down each blade that you torque to adjust the pitch. They
are
> > torqued by cams in the hub - there could be metal working against metal
> but
> > I don't know how that wouldn't reveal itself in more evident fashion.
> I'll
> > watch it at night
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Duncan
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Shielding the tach lead
> >
> >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> > <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> > >
> > > At 03:52 PM 8/2/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride"
> > > ><duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
> > > >
> > > >I just got back from the field. When I disconnected the tach leads
the
> > > >noise was the same. So I guess shielding the tach wire to the EIS
> won't
> > > >help.
> > >
> > > reasonable deduction . . .
> > >
> > > >I say white noise because it is a steady-state sort of noise, but it
> > > >is distinctively crackly. The volume goes up with engine rpm, the
pitch
> > > >doesn't go up with rpm so much as the sound just becomes a more
> smoother
> > > >rasp, but louder.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Pulling the circuit breaker for the alternator has no
> > > >effect.
> > >
> > > Good data point . . .
> > >
> > > > And just today I tried a handheld (totally separate, battery
> > > >powered, rubber duck) and I get a slightly different version of the
> same
> > > >noise - not quite as loud, but related to engine rpm in intensity and
> > > >somewhat in pitch.
> > >
> > > Okay, it's radiated noise. NOT conducted.
> > >
> > >
> > > >Because the 760 exhibits the noise when separated from the bus, and I
> get
> > > >the same noise with a handheld, can I try to zero in on the source by
> > > >playing with the handheld?
> > >
> > > That might be helpful . . .
> > >
> > > > Should I test the 22,000 mfd smoothing
> > > >capacitor?
> > >
> > > If the noise is still there with the alternator off,
> > > then it has nothing to do with the smoothing capacitor.
> > >
> > > > How would I go about finding the source of the noise?
> > >
> > > Do you have a fuel shut off . . . can you kill the
> > > engine without access to ignition wires? If so, disconnect
> > > "p-lead" wires at the engine. If noise is still there,
> > > then something else is generating it and it's related
> > > to engine operation. Volume goes up with RPM but not
> > > so much in perceived pitch . . . what kind of prop do
> > > you have. Composite? Plastic? I'm stretching here but
> > > we might have a p-static thing. Observe prop in total
> > > darkness and after dark adapting your eyes for ten minutes
> > > or so . . . can you "see" the prop?
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> > >
> > >
> > > > Until now
> > > >I just wanted to find a work around. Now, I want to find it, and
kill
> > it.
> > > >It's beginning to cut into my good times.
> > > >
> > > >Thanks,
> > > >Duncan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> > > >To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Shielding the tach lead
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> > > ><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> > > > >
> > > > > At 06:28 PM 8/1/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> > > > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride"
> > > > > ><duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I'll try to address your points in order
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Sine wave low frequency tach signal? I'm looking at the Rotax
912
> > > > > >installation manual and the specs for the rev-counter are one
pulse
> > per
> > > > > >revolution. The graphs on the documentation show a pretty sharp
> > spike of
> > > >at
> > > > > >least 5 volts at a load of 100 ohms and 75 volts at 100 kohms
when
> at
> > > >5000
> > > > > >rpm. The German translation is a little vague - there are two
> graphs
> > for
> > > > > >the 6000rpm oscillograms - one shows peak voltage at about 7V and
> the
> > > >other
> > > > > >about 75V. Who knows? I thought I would at least disconnect the
> > leads
> > > >at
> > > > > >the engine, fire it up and see if the noise goes away. If it
does
> > I'll
> > > >hook
> > > > > >up some shielded wire (or bolt up some conduit, what the hell)
> > > > >
> > > > > Hmmm . . . different tach than the one I'm familiar with.
> > > > > Last one I looked at was on an ultra-light hangared at
> > > > > our airport. It ran the tach from ac off the "lighting coil".
.
> .
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >As to who is hearing the noise, I am in my headphones for sure.
It
> is
> > > > > >present when the radio and headphone connections are completely
> > isolated
> > > > > >from the aircraft and the radio is powered with a battery as you
> > > >suggested.
> > > > > >The 760 is grounded through the panel mounting screws, so I used
> > nylon
> > > > > >mounting screws and confirmed that it was not grounded. None of
> the
> > > > > >headphone jacks or PTT leads were grounded, and the PTT switch
lead
> > went
> > > > > >back to the test battery, not the aircraft ground. When I had
the
> > 760
> > > > > >intercom feature hooked up, I did hear the noise when the
intercom
> > PTT
> > > >was
> > > > > >pushed, so the problem is not exclusive to transmitting. Now I
> have
> > a
> > > > > >Sigtronics Portable (powered by the internal 9-volt battery)
hooked
> > up to
> > > > > >the 760. When the transmit PTT is pushed I hear the very same
> noise
> > > >through
> > > > > >the intercom, whether it is turned on or not. However, when not
> > > > > >transmitting and just the VOX squelch is broken on the intercom,
I
> do
> > not
> > > > > >hear the noise. I had the intercom converted to the high noise
> > version
> > > >and
> > > > > >I'm using Oregon Aero mic muffs on the headsets - this is working
> > pretty
> > > > > >well, though the Twinstar cockpit is pretty noisy.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >I once thought that only I was hearing the noise and that other
> > planes or
> > > > > >the ground were not hearing it. That seems to have been
> inaccurate,
> > > > > >prompted by the report of a pilot who heard me in the pattern
when
> > the
> > > > > >engine was idling. Subsequent tests confirm the transmission at
> > > >significant
> > > > > >power settings includes the raspy white-like noise.
> > > > >
> > > > > "white-like"? The electronic community would define a "white
> > noise"
> > > > > as a rushing sound, not unlike a huge waterfall heard from
afar.
> > If
> > > > > your noise source is related to ignition, it's a very low
> > frequency
> > > > > popping noise, perhaps one or two pulses per revolution and
its
> > > > > frequency goes up and down exactly tracking engine RPM.
> > > > >
> > > > > If there is a "white-like" noise associated with this problem,
> > > > > it's unlikely to be associated with the ignition system. If
you
> > > > > turn the alternator off, does the noise go away? Can you hear
> > > > > the noise on a hand held receiver in close proximity to the
> > airplane?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bob . . .
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> > >
> > > --------------------------------------------
> > > ( Knowing about a thing is different than )
> > > ( understanding it. One can know a lot )
> > > ( and still understand nothing. )
> > > ( C.F. Kettering )
> > > --------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Shielding the tach lead (lasar noise) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Duncan McBride" <duncanmcbride@comcast.net>
Hey, I appreciate the help trying to zero in on the noise and I do want to
learn what's going on - I may have to ask some dumb questions, so bear with
me. I don't know if Lasar is an acronym or the name of something - what is
that? I can probably record the noise from the audio out of the intercom,
I'll try to do that but it may take a week or two. Next trip I will walk
around the plan with the handheld to see if the noise varies, and where it
is stronger. I will also try the water trick to see if that changes
anything. I also considered the spark leads. It's a brand new engine with
70 hours. I asked the guys at Lockwood if I should try shielding the spark
leads and they said no. Then again, they said to shield the tach lead. I
need to call them and tell them disconnecting the tach lead had no effect on
the noise. Maybe they have something else to try.
Tell me where my Lasar is and I'll ground it ;<)
Thanks, Duncan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Shielding the tach lead (lasar noise)
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
<emjones@charter.net>
>
> Suggestions:
>
> Can you borrow another Lasar and swap?
> Can you record the sound and post it on the web?
> Radiated noise? Can you use the handheld to find the source more
precisely?
> (The antenna points to the source, and you can make remote antennas as
search probes).
> What happens to the noise if you spray water on the prop, the wheels,
other places?.
> Have you considered just bad spark plug wires?
> Is the Lasar ground good?
>
> Regards,
> Eric M. Jones
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phone interference with avionics. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:41 AM 8/3/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finnlassen@netzero.net>
>
>Sure, if you have the cell phone only 10 inches away from the equipment!
>So it really only applies to using a cell phone in the cockpit.
>Also note that the test was "simulated" not actual cellphones.
Most RFI/EMI testing is "simulated" in that potentially
antagonistic stimulus is produced by calibrated test equipment.
This is the "repeatable experiment" foundation upon which
the best practices and standards are built.
With just a quick look through the test, I note that fields
up to 50 v/meter are cited. This is a HUGE signal compared
to what I believe a cell phone is capable of. The whole idea
behind "cells" covered by many stations on short towers was
to promote useful performance from a hand-held device that
runs from a 3 volt battery powered transmitter that runs
perhaps 100 milliwatts! The signal from your comm
transmitter is on the order of 10 - 50x that of the cell phone.
Pulsed energy from the transponder is 100-300x that
of a cell phone. You routinely fly within perhaps
a mile of an FM or TV transmitter station with beam
carrier strengths on the order of hundreds of kilowatts.
We know that Chicken Little got hit on the head with
an acorn and deduced that the sky was falling. Keep in
mind that the charter for a vast majority of bureaucratic
institutions is to be harbingers of doom. In other words,
you NEVER see a publication that says "go out to do this
and that, have fun and don't worry about thus and such" . . .
EVERY bureaucratic publication must (by the very nature
of the organization that produces it) paint a worrisome
picture even if it defies common sense. So just 'cause
we get hit on the head with a doom-n-gloom document
published by an official sounding institution doesn't
mean the probability for crash-n-burn goes up 100x
when the cell phone rings.
Do your own real-life experiment. In a relaxed and
thoughtful situation, see if your cell phone produces
any observable effects upon gizmos in your cockpit.
Do the SAME THING with hand held transceivers and
other panel mounted radiant energy sources. We deal
routinely with system integration testing of all
gizmos we plan to use. If you consider your
cell phone to be a part of cockpit equipment,
then the task for deducing suitability to task
is no different than for any other piece of
equipment.
Suppose your cell phone DOES produce some
wiggle in an instrument . . . what's the likelihood
that you're going to be tracking the ILS in
an approach to minimums and whip out the cell
phone to order pizza?
Okay, suppose you're on short final to the sod
at Podunk International and you want to buzz uncle
Joe to come pick you up. Does it matter if
other cockpit mounted stuff finds something
objectionable about the cell phone?
Bottom line is that as OBAM aircraft builders
and users we're both free and obligated to deduce
for ourselves the suitability AND operating rules
for ANYTHING we choose to carry on board the
aircraft. In spite of the published results of
anyone claiming risk to life, limb and aircraft,
it's not difficult to do. Publish the findings of
your tests here on the AeroElectric-List
as guidance for folks doing the REPEATABLE EXPERIMENT
in their airplanes.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
You must have missed Oshkosh...like me. 8-) Here are some starting
points:
For EFIS:
http://www.dynonavionics.com
http://www.grtavionics.com
http://www.bluemountainavionics.com
For EIS:
http://www.advanced-control-systems.com/
Hope this helps,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Herbert Schmaderer" <herbert.schmaderer@aon.at>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: EFIS panel
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Herbert Schmaderer"
<herbert.schmaderer@aon.at>
>
> Good morning friends!
> I am new to this forum and seek the expertise of this group. I own a
Pulsar kitplane with conventional instrumentaion. In a planed redesign I
would like to fit modern electronic EFIS and EIS to the panel. Any
suggestins regarding product and sources at reasonable prices?
> regards
> Herbert
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Shielding the tach lead (lasar noise) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@usjet.net>
Duncan, I believe that Eric mixed your problem with mine. Lasar is a
type of electronic ignition made by Unison.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 331 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
> Tell me where my Lasar is and I'll ground it ;<)
>
> Thanks, Duncan
>
> > Suggestions:
> >
> > Can you borrow another Lasar and swap?
> > Can you record the sound and post it on the web?
> > Radiated noise? Can you use the handheld to find the source more
> precisely?
> > (The antenna points to the source, and you can make remote
> antennas
> > as
> search probes).
> > What happens to the noise if you spray water on the prop,
> the wheels,
> other places?.
> > Have you considered just bad spark plug wires?
> > Is the Lasar ground good?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Eric M. Jones
> >
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Aeroelectric-List: Knock Sensors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski" <swiderski@rocketjet.net>
Hello,
I am building a turbo version of the 3 cyl, 1 liter Geo Metro engine. It uses
an afternmarket computer for ignition & fuel control. I am looking for a
panel mountable knock sensor that visually shows the level of detonation with
a series of LED's.
Anyone know of a resource for one? If not, how about a set of plans for one?
If you're interested about the engine, you can check it out at http://www.geocities.com/ib2polish/
Go to "My Kolb" then "Engine"
Thanks,
Richard Swiderski
Message 16
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| Subject: | RE: Aeroelectric-List: Knock Sensors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net>
Hi Richard,
One source is the unit made by MSD. It is Summit part number MSD-8964
on their site <http://www.summitracing.com/>.
Jon Finley
N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 454 Hrs. TT - 2 Hrs Engine
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://www.FinleyWeb.net/default.asp?id=96
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Richard Swiderski
> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 6:20 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Aeroelectric-List: Knock Sensors
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard Swiderski"
> --> <swiderski@rocketjet.net>
>
> Hello,
>
> I am building a turbo version of the 3 cyl, 1 liter Geo
> Metro engine. It uses an afternmarket computer for ignition
> & fuel control. I am looking for a panel mountable knock
> sensor that visually shows the level of detonation with a
> series of LED's.
> Anyone know of a resource for one? If not, how about a
> set of plans for one?
> If you're interested about the engine, you can check it
> out at http://www.geocities.com/ib2polish/
> Go to "My Kolb" then "Engine"
>
> Thanks,
> Richard Swiderski
Message 17
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| Subject: | Shielding the tach lead |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
This is from my friend & fellow EAA Chapter 223 member Greg Nelson - he has
the same serious comm problem with an electric, cockpit adjustable LNC2
Ivoprop.
I'm adding his email to the list for others to see and to archive it.
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Nelson" <gnelson@gt.rr.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Shielding the tach lead
> Dave: Indeed, I have had the same problem on my LNC2 using the same
> equipment, i.e., IVOPROP with electric cockpit adjustable mechanisms. I
> gave up on solving this problem and am content to yell all communications
to
> ground control and have them repeat their instructions back to me several
> times. I'm not as determined to "kill it" as are other builders.
Further,
> as I am not an engineer, I feel ill-equipped to solve such black art
> problems and therefore await a solution by another more competent or
> determined person. I hope Duncan is that person and that he will share the
> solution with me, Ivo and others.
>
> Thank you Dave, Duncan and Bob for your collective investigations and
> analysis.
>
> Greg Nelson, N95EG, Lancair360, (251 hrs tt on Ivoprop, airframe and
Lyc
> 360 engine)
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Master Switch Warning Light/Buzzer |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hebeard2@aol.com
Hello Walt,
Vans sells a SPDT oil pressure switch which could be used to do as Bob
suggested in his diagram. It is part no. IE SPDT Press-15SW priced at $24.84. Listed
in his catalog with the hour meter.
I prefer a big bright red light on the instrument panel to a buzzer as not
being so irritating on the ground prior to engine start. If you think a steady
red light would not get your attention, you could use a 555 timer circuit to
make it a flashing red light.
Harley E. Beard
RV-6A Finish Kit
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