Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:42 AM - Re: Pyrotechnic actuation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:43 AM - Re: Ground Bolt? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:45 AM - Re: Buttsplice vs. Solder Heatshrink? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:04 AM - Re: Pyrotechnic actuation (F1Rocket)
5. 07:12 AM - Re: Ground Bolt? (Cy Galley)
6. 07:21 AM - Re: Ground Bolt? (Charlie Kuss)
7. 07:30 AM - Re Ground bolt (RSamuelson@aol.com)
8. 07:41 AM - Re: Ground Bolt? (caspainhower@aep.com)
9. 07:44 AM - Instrument Wiring (Don Boardman)
10. 08:11 AM - Re: big switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 08:19 AM - Re: Ground Bolt? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 08:20 AM - Re: Re Ground bolt (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 08:20 AM - Re: Ground Bolt? (Chad Robinson)
14. 08:22 AM - Re: SD-8 Hook up (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 08:58 AM - Re: Instrument Wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 10:38 AM - Re: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor (Leonard Garceau)
17. 03:45 PM - Seminars (don522@webtv.net (Don McCallister))
18. 04:14 PM - Re: Seminars (Dan Branstrom)
19. 05:25 PM - Adding a "T" connector in the com line? (hollandm)
20. 05:45 PM - Re: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor (Larry Bowen)
21. 06:05 PM - Re: Adding a 'T' connector in the com line? (Matt Prather)
22. 06:08 PM - Re: Adding a "T" connector in the com line? (Dave Morris)
23. 06:35 PM - Re: Adding a "T" connector in the com line? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 07:04 PM - Re: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor (AI Nut)
25. 07:12 PM - Re: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor (Larry Bowen)
26. 07:27 PM - Re: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor (AI Nut)
27. 07:30 PM - SNIMTA_SPAM Re (Dave Morris)
28. 07:48 PM - Re: Adding a 'T' connector in the com line? (Jon Finley)
29. 07:49 PM - Loran Antenna Pre Amp (Don Boardman)
30. 08:40 PM - Re: Adding a "T" connector in the com line? (Dj Merrill)
31. 08:41 PM - Re: SNIMTA_SPAM Re (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
32. 08:45 PM - Re: Loran Antenna Pre Amp (Neal A. Dillman)
33. 08:59 PM - Re: Loran Antenna Pre Amp (BobsV35B@aol.com)
34. 10:13 PM - Why Loran (Don Boardman)
35. 10:17 PM - Re: Loran Antenna Pre Amp (Don Boardman)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Pyrotechnic actuation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:52 AM 1/14/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 1/13/2004 9:06:30 PM Mountain Standard Time,
>f1rocket@telus.net writes:
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm trying to set up a method to control up to eight pyrotechnics mounted
> > under the wing.
> >
> > The minimum actuation voltage is 1.5 volts. The switch will be from the
> > momentary stick grip. The first set will be triggered with one click
> of the
> > button, second set with the second click, and so on. I'm a little
> worried about
> > false actuation, so maybe a system where the button has to be held for one
> > second?
> >
> > The total number of shots will be 8.
> >
> > Any ideas out there what might work?
I did the recovery parachute controllers for the last three
installations at RAC on development aircraft. These
systems were totally actuated with explosives albeit
tiny ones in most cases. Monitoring and control of such
systems is relatively easy. The BIG consideration for
our systems was that they're completely redundant . . . two
systems operated in parallel with each other and we needed
to provide 100% testing of ship's wiring and initiators
for each preflight.
Can you provide some data on the initiators used in your
system?
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Ground Bolt? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:10 PM 1/13/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Schaefer"
><dschaefer1@kc.rr.com>
>
>Any idea where I can find a 3/4" or 1" BRASS bolt to replace the 1 3/4" 5/16
>bolt from B&C on the ground strip? I understand that the composite guys may
>have a 1/2" firewall and need the long bold and gaggle of washers but us RV
>guys only have a very thin stainless firewall. I called B&C today and they
>don't have any shorter bolts.
Cut it off. Clamp head in vise and use hacksaw . . . or grap
head in visegrips and use bandsaw. After cutting, chamfer the
end of the threads on belt sander to remove burrs.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Buttsplice vs. Solder Heatshrink? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:54 PM 1/13/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
><lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
>
>Bob, I need to make a #2awg wire about 3 inches longer that runs to my
>starter. I already got round connectors on ends. The reason is due to
>needing to reroute the wire and allow a bit of slack for attaching
>standoffs. What is the preferred way to do this or should I just bite the
>bullet and buy new wire?
Go to a welding shop and get some #4 welding cable to make
new jumpers. Connections this short can be smaller and the
welding cable is cheap, VERY flexible and quite suited to
the task.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Pyrotechnic actuation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "F1Rocket" <f1rocket@telus.net>
Nothing so drastic. It is for airshow work. Simple sparklers and noise
makers.
Bob, I will dig up some technical details on the initiators.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: <Benford2@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pyrotechnic actuation
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 1/13/2004 9:06:30 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> f1rocket@telus.net writes:
>
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm trying to set up a method to control up to eight pyrotechnics
mounted
> > under the wing.
> >
> > The minimum actuation voltage is 1.5 volts. The switch will be from the
> > momentary stick grip. The first set will be triggered with one click of
the
> > button, second set with the second click, and so on. I'm a little
worried about
> > false actuation, so maybe a system where the button has to be held for
one
> > second?
> >
> > The total number of shots will be 8.
> >
> > Any ideas out there what might work?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jeff
> >
> >
>
> Can you say,??? Homeland Security ????? Pray tell what you have in
mind...
>
> Ben N801BH do not archive
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ground Bolt? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Run a nut on the bolt BEFORE cutting.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ground Bolt?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 08:10 PM 1/13/2004 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Schaefer"
> ><dschaefer1@kc.rr.com>
> >
> >Any idea where I can find a 3/4" or 1" BRASS bolt to replace the 1 3/4"
5/16
> >bolt from B&C on the ground strip? I understand that the composite guys
may
> >have a 1/2" firewall and need the long bold and gaggle of washers but us
RV
> >guys only have a very thin stainless firewall. I called B&C today and
they
> >don't have any shorter bolts.
>
> Cut it off. Clamp head in vise and use hacksaw . . . or grap
> head in visegrips and use bandsaw. After cutting, chamfer the
> end of the threads on belt sander to remove burrs.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ground Bolt? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
>
>
>At 08:10 PM 1/13/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Schaefer"
>><dschaefer1@kc.rr.com>
>>
>>Any idea where I can find a 3/4" or 1" BRASS bolt to replace the 1 3/4" 5/16
>>bolt from B&C on the ground strip? I understand that the composite guys may
>>have a 1/2" firewall and need the long bold and gaggle of washers but us RV
>>guys only have a very thin stainless firewall. I called B&C today and they
>>don't have any shorter bolts.
>
> Cut it off. Clamp head in vise and use hacksaw . . . or grap
> head in visegrips and use bandsaw. After cutting, chamfer the
> end of the threads on belt sander to remove burrs.
>
> Bob . . .
Bob,
This will work much better if a nut is first threaded onto the bolt to be cut.
Then bevel the cut edge of the newly shortened bolt. Last, back the nut off of
the bolt. This will ensure that the all important first thread is straight and
true. Ask me how I know!! :-)
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A
Message 7
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RSamuelson@aol.com
I have the same problem. I tried to cut threads on the long bolt but the nut
didn't fit correctly.
Can I use a bronze bolt? I can get them at my local marine hardware store.
Roy Samuelson
RV7A
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Ground Bolt? |
01/14/2004 10:40:22 AM
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
> Cut it off. Clamp head in vise and use hacksaw . . . or grap
> head in visegrips and use bandsaw. After cutting, chamfer the
> end of the threads on belt sander to remove burrs.
If the bolt length allows, I will also thread a nut on prior to cutting the
bolt. That way the nut will chase the threads when it is removed.
Obviously a die or thread chaser would do the same thing.
Craig S.
601XS
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Instrument Wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
Hi Bob,
Tried a search in the archives but no joy.
I'm hesitant about taking anything for granted when it comes to building
airplanes, hence sometimes the questions which the answer to seems obvious.
My question concerns wiring up the several engine instruments for DC.
Is it proper technique to run groups of instruments off of one fuse and
daisy chain the +14v feed to the instruments one after the other?
Now the grounds. Daisy chain or each ground run separately?
Into the thick of it!
Thanks,
Don B
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:22 AM 1/9/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott"
><tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
>
>Original message:
>
> >Gentlemen,
> >
> >Does anyone have a source for a progressive off-on-on DPDT switch rated for
> >20amps? It needs to look about like the panel switches from B&C.
>
> Why 20A?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>Bob,
>
>I KNEW you'd catch that. Just can't slip anything past you, can I? :-)
>I'm thinking of a way to simplify Z-14 by eliminating the battery contactor
>on the "#2" side of the setup. I wouldn't do this unless I could put the
>battery very close to the switch, like behind the instrument panel, on the
>aft side of the firewall. OK, shoot holes in this, please.
What are you doing about a cross-feed connection? Do you plan
to use the aux battery for cranking? Cranking currents are
a LOT bigger than 20A
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Ground Bolt? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:40 AM 1/14/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
>
>
> > Cut it off. Clamp head in vise and use hacksaw . . . or grap
> > head in visegrips and use bandsaw. After cutting, chamfer the
> > end of the threads on belt sander to remove burrs.
>
>If the bolt length allows, I will also thread a nut on prior to cutting the
>bolt. That way the nut will chase the threads when it is removed.
>Obviously a die or thread chaser would do the same thing.
>
>Craig S.
>601XS
Another advantage of having a nut on while cutting is
that it's easier to grab the hex faces of both nut and
head in a vise. Threads this coarse are not difficult
to clean up by chamfering on the sander after the cut
but an ability to "chase" finer threads on smaller screws
is certainly helpful.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Re Ground bolt |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:29 AM 1/14/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RSamuelson@aol.com
>
>I have the same problem. I tried to cut threads on the long bolt but the nut
>didn't fit correctly.
>Can I use a bronze bolt? I can get them at my local marine hardware store.
Sure
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Ground Bolt? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chad Robinson <crobinson@rfgonline.com>
>>Any idea where I can find a 3/4" or 1" BRASS bolt to replace the 1 3/4" 5/16
>>bolt from B&C on the ground strip? I understand that the composite guys may
>>have a 1/2" firewall and need the long bold and gaggle of washers but us RV
>>guys only have a very thin stainless firewall. I called B&C today and they
>>don't have any shorter bolts.
>
>
> Cut it off. Clamp head in vise and use hacksaw . . . or grap
> head in visegrips and use bandsaw. After cutting, chamfer the
> end of the threads on belt sander to remove burrs.
Another good trick for cutting bolts is to thread a nut or two onto it first,
above the cut point. After cutting, removing the nuts will clean up the threads.
Regards,
Chad
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: SD-8 Hook up |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:07 PM 1/13/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>These Questions are from a previous post. They got lost in the shuffle.
>
>1) In figure (Z-13) the SD-8 section shows a #12 wire running from the
>regulator via the capacitor to the DS-8 relay near the contactor. Is there
>a need to protect this wire when the relay is open? Is it that this wire
>sees no current if the relay is open and when the relay is closed the wire
>is protected by the #16 wire at the contactor?
The burning source for this path is the battery. This is
why we use a fusible link (or battery bus fuse) at the
battery end -AND- mount the disconnect relay as close to
battery as practical. There are no other concerns for
"protection" of the wire elsewhere along the path.
>2) The DS-8 relay has the OVM-14 connected. No Diode needed?
This relay doesn't have much "kick" . . . but you can
add the diode if you wish.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument Wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:45 AM 1/14/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Tried a search in the archives but no joy.
>
>I'm hesitant about taking anything for granted when it comes to building
>airplanes, hence sometimes the questions which the answer to seems obvious.
>
>My question concerns wiring up the several engine instruments for DC.
>Is it proper technique to run groups of instruments off of one fuse and
>daisy chain the +14v feed to the instruments one after the other?
>
>Now the grounds. Daisy chain or each ground run separately?
Engine instruments are not critical items for comfortable
termination of flight. If you have lots of fuse slots to
spare, there's nothing wrong with driving each instrument
from its own feeder . . . but if you ran them all from
a single feeder, that's okay too.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leonard Garceau" <lhgcpg@westriv.com>
I used a small steel tubing to go from the engine thru the firewall then
used rubber hose to connect to the MAP.
Leonard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson"
<rickf@cableone.net>
>
> Grand Rapids recommends placing the MAP sensor in the cockpit because it
uses a plastic case. I'm not going to because I've gone to a lot of effort
and some $'s to protect the cockpit from engine fires. Placing the sensor
in the cockpit means you would have to bring a manifold pressure hose
through the firewall. Has anyone else had any good or bad experience with
this sensor in the engine compartment.
> thanks,
> Rick Fogerson
> Boise, ID
> RV3 wiring
>
>
Message 17
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: don522@webtv.net (Don McCallister)
Bob, are you having seminars towards the rest of this month or next???
A friend is asking me. Thanks.
Don Mc
Do not archeive.
Message 18
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Branstrom" <danbranstrom@verizon.net>
For information, go to http://www.aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html I copied
this from there.
Up-coming Forums and/or Weekend Seminars Scheduled
Jefferson City, MO January 10/11, 2004
Kansas City, MO, February 7/8, 2004
Groton, CT March 6/7, 2004
Nashville, TN May 1/2, 2004
Ft Worth, TX May 22/23, 2004
Dan Branstrom
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: don522@webtv.net (Don
McCallister)
>
> Bob, are you having seminars towards the rest of this month or next???
> A friend is asking me. Thanks.
> Don Mc
>
> Do not archeive.
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Adding a "T" connector in the com line? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "hollandm" <hollandm@pacbell.net>
I'm thinking of putting a BNC T-connector in my COM antenna line, in the event
of a com radio malfunction, to facilitate using a handheld, which will be my 2nd
com.
Is there any issue with this in terms of interference with the primary antenna
feed or introducing a noise source?
Thanks
Message 20
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| Subject: | Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I plan to do the same with copper tubing.....
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leonard Garceau [mailto:lhgcpg@westriv.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:38 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leonard Garceau"
> --> <lhgcpg@westriv.com>
>
> I used a small steel tubing to go from the engine thru the
> firewall then used rubber hose to connect to the MAP.
>
> Leonard
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>; "RV List"
> <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson"
> <rickf@cableone.net>
> >
> > Grand Rapids recommends placing the MAP sensor in the
> cockpit because
> > it
> uses a plastic case. I'm not going to because I've gone to a
> lot of effort and some $'s to protect the cockpit from engine
> fires. Placing the sensor in the cockpit means you would
> have to bring a manifold pressure hose through the firewall.
> Has anyone else had any good or bad experience with this
> sensor in the engine compartment.
> > thanks,
> > Rick Fogerson
> > Boise, ID
> > RV3 wiring
> >
> >
>
>
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> Matronics Forums.
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>
>
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>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Adding a 'T' connector in the com line? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
This is a question that has been addressed in various ways in
the archive. The short answer is that putting a T in line will at the
least need to have a 50ohm terminator plugged in when the
alternate feed isn't in use. Even then, I think you will see noticeable
degradation in your comm performance. Not from interference
per se, but because of feedline impedance issues.
What has been discussed in the past is to include some kind of
splitter device which connects only one device at a time to the
antenna. While this is nifty if you often plan to switch back and forth
between to comm radios, I think it seems like overkill for a rarely
used radio (your handheld). And, the splitter still represents a place
where the impedance of the feedline isn't perfect.
If it were my airplane, I would consider 2 options. The simplest
is to just plan to use the handheld's rubber ducky. It will work great
out to about 25mi, once you are in the air. It is light weight,
aerodynamic, and probably came with the radio. How often do you
NEED to be able to talk further than 25mi?
The other option I would consider is to see if I could route the antenna
feed line somewhere that I could cut it and install a pair of BNC
connectors - one male, and one female - in a location that is easily
accessible from the pilot seat while in flight. Maybe the glove box, or
in a loop of cable that is tucked behind the panel. Then, if my comm
crap's out, I pull the loop out, unplug the antenna from the radio, and
attach it to the handheld. The down side of this idea is that you will be
monkeying with some antenna cable while you might need to be flying
the plane instead.
Matt-
N34RD
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "hollandm"
> <hollandm@pacbell.net>
>
> I'm thinking of putting a BNC T-connector in my COM antenna line, in the
> event of a com radio malfunction, to facilitate using a handheld, which
> will be my 2nd com.
>
> Is there any issue with this in terms of interference with the primary
> antenna feed or introducing a noise source?
>
> Thanks
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Adding a "T" connector in the com line? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris <dave@davemorris.com>
You can't treat RF transmission lines like DC wires. A "T" connector could
be used, but you would need to make sure you disconnect any unused coax
going to the primary comm radio in the event you hook up the handheld. You
don't want anything "dangling" off the direct line between the radio and
the antenna. A better solution might be to get a $25 coax switch designed
for VHF frequencies (example
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-1702C) and mount it
on the instrument panel along with a BNC connector to allow you to switch
between the built-in radio and any external radio you decide to plug into
the BNC.
Dave Morris
At 07:20 PM 1/14/2004, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "hollandm" <hollandm@pacbell.net>
>
>I'm thinking of putting a BNC T-connector in my COM antenna line, in the
>event of a com radio malfunction, to facilitate using a handheld, which
>will be my 2nd com.
>
>Is there any issue with this in terms of interference with the primary
>antenna feed or introducing a noise source?
>
>Thanks
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Adding a "T" connector in the com line? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:20 PM 1/14/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "hollandm" <hollandm@pacbell.net>
>
>I'm thinking of putting a BNC T-connector in my COM antenna line, in the
>event of a com radio malfunction, to facilitate using a handheld, which
>will be my 2nd com.
>
>Is there any issue with this in terms of interference with the primary
>antenna feed or introducing a noise source?
Not a T but a simple cable-male/cable-female splice in the
line that allows you to break into the external com antenna
and attach a short jumper for the hand held. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html
I prefer plan -A- but if you want a sexier solution
you can go for -B- . . .
A T-connector will not disconnect the alternate com
system when transmitting. This puts a LOT more power
into the receiver of the non-transmitting radio
than it is designed to withstand . . . usually
toasts the front end transistor.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "AI Nut" <ainut@earthlink.net>
Many people discourage the use of copper tubing as it will leak and break
over time. Apparently, copper can't stand up to the relatively high
vibration environment.
AI Nut
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
<Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> I plan to do the same with copper tubing.....
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Leonard Garceau [mailto:lhgcpg@westriv.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:38 PM
> > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor
> >
> >
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leonard Garceau"
> > --> <lhgcpg@westriv.com>
> >
> > I used a small steel tubing to go from the engine thru the
> > firewall then used rubber hose to connect to the MAP.
> >
> > Leonard
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>; "RV List"
> > <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor
> >
> >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson"
> > <rickf@cableone.net>
> > >
> > > Grand Rapids recommends placing the MAP sensor in the
> > cockpit because
> > > it
> > uses a plastic case. I'm not going to because I've gone to a
> > lot of effort and some $'s to protect the cockpit from engine
> > fires. Placing the sensor in the cockpit means you would
> > have to bring a manifold pressure hose through the firewall.
> > Has anyone else had any good or bad experience with this
> > sensor in the engine compartment.
> > > thanks,
> > > Rick Fogerson
> > > Boise, ID
> > > RV3 wiring
> > >
> > >
> >
Message 25
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| Subject: | Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
What's recommended then? Name your source. I think I got the copper
idea from Tony Bengelis's book. If it's coiled/supported/etc properly,
it should be good.
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AI Nut [mailto:ainut@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 10:05 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "AI Nut"
> <ainut@earthlink.net>
>
> Many people discourage the use of copper tubing as it will
> leak and break over time. Apparently, copper can't stand up
> to the relatively high vibration environment.
>
> AI Nut
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
> <Larry@BowenAero.com>
> >
> > I plan to do the same with copper tubing.....
> >
> > -
> > Larry Bowen
> > Larry@BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Leonard Garceau [mailto:lhgcpg@westriv.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 1:38 PM
> > > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor
> > >
> > >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leonard Garceau"
> > > --> <lhgcpg@westriv.com>
> > >
> > > I used a small steel tubing to go from the engine thru
> the firewall
> > > then used rubber hose to connect to the MAP.
> > >
> > > Leonard
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
> > > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>; "RV List"
> > > <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson"
> > > <rickf@cableone.net>
> > > >
> > > > Grand Rapids recommends placing the MAP sensor in the
> > > cockpit because
> > > > it
> > > uses a plastic case. I'm not going to because I've gone
> to a lot of
> > > effort and some $'s to protect the cockpit from engine fires.
> > > Placing the sensor in the cockpit means you would have to bring a
> > > manifold pressure hose through the firewall. Has anyone
> else had any
> > > good or bad experience with this sensor in the engine compartment.
> > > > thanks,
> > > > Rick Fogerson
> > > > Boise, ID
> > > > RV3 wiring
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
>
> ============
> Matronics Forums.
> ============
> ============
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
> Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
> ============
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "AI Nut" <ainut@earthlink.net>
A fitting through the firewall, and rubber tubing will work just fine, but
you might want to get the reinforced type so that it can't collapse under
vacuum (over time.) Replace every few years just in case; it's cheap
enough. You might pose this question on the homebuilt or general aviation
newsgroups.
Some of the books I have on homebuilts talk about the problems with copper
tubing. I need to replace mine as it's used as a borboun (sp?) tube for the
panel oil pressure sensor 8-(. Would not like to have hot oil in my lap.
If I can figure a way, I'll not use that sensor and try to use one under the
cowling so as not to bring hot oil into the cockpit at all.
AI Nut
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Grand Rapids EIS 4000 MAP sensor
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
<Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> What's recommended then? Name your source. I think I got the copper
> idea from Tony Bengelis's book. If it's coiled/supported/etc properly,
> it should be good.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
<<<snip>>>
Message 27
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris <dave@davemorris.com>
Hmmm... I don't think you can use a headphone jack in an RF application
like that without introducing a huge impedance bump in the system. I would
sure put an SWR bridge on the whole thing and see what happens. VHF
circuits are very sensitive to discontinuity in the line and only
connectors that maintain the 50 Ohm impedance should be used. I think I
would go for Plan A.
Dave Morris
At 08:34 PM 1/14/2004, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>At 05:20 PM 1/14/2004 -0800, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "hollandm" <hollandm@pacbell.net>
> >
> >I'm thinking of putting a BNC T-connector in my COM antenna line, in the
> >event of a com radio malfunction, to facilitate using a handheld, which
> >will be my 2nd com.
> >
> >Is there any issue with this in terms of interference with the primary
> >antenna feed or introducing a noise source?
>
> Not a T but a simple cable-male/cable-female splice in the
> line that allows you to break into the external com antenna
> and attach a short jumper for the hand held. See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/commtap/commtap.html
>
> I prefer plan -A- but if you want a sexier solution
> you can go for -B- . . .
>
> A T-connector will not disconnect the alternate com
> system when transmitting. This puts a LOT more power
> into the receiver of the non-transmitting radio
> than it is designed to withstand . . . usually
> toasts the front end transistor.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Adding a 'T' connector in the com line? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net>
I can't address the electrical issues but thought I'd add to the comment
regarding capability of handheld radios (agree with you Matt):
I used (exclusively) an ICom handheld Nav/Com in my Quickie. I had it
mounted in a little tray (third photo on this page:
http://www.finleyweb.net/default.asp?id=100 ) and connected to a
copper-foil antenna mounted in the tail. My home base was in the
mountains of Montana and I never had problems communicating. Once, over
central Kansas, I was talking to fellow who was over central Nebraska
(couple hundred miles???).
Just reminiscing.... :-)
Jon Finley
N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 461 Hrs. TT
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://www.FinleyWeb.net/Q2Subaru
DO NOT ARCHIVE
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Matt Prather
> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 8:06 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Adding a 'T' connector in the
> com line?
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather"
> --> <mprather@spro.net>
>
> This is a question that has been addressed in various ways in
> the archive. The short answer is that putting a T in line
> will at the least need to have a 50ohm terminator plugged in
> when the alternate feed isn't in use. Even then, I think you
> will see noticeable degradation in your comm performance.
> Not from interference per se, but because of feedline
> impedance issues.
>
> What has been discussed in the past is to include some kind
> of splitter device which connects only one device at a time
> to the antenna. While this is nifty if you often plan to
> switch back and forth between to comm radios, I think it
> seems like overkill for a rarely used radio (your handheld).
> And, the splitter still represents a place where the
> impedance of the feedline isn't perfect.
>
> If it were my airplane, I would consider 2 options. The
> simplest is to just plan to use the handheld's rubber ducky.
> It will work great out to about 25mi, once you are in the
> air. It is light weight, aerodynamic, and probably came with
> the radio. How often do you NEED to be able to talk further
> than 25mi?
>
> The other option I would consider is to see if I could route
> the antenna feed line somewhere that I could cut it and
> install a pair of BNC connectors - one male, and one female -
> in a location that is easily accessible from the pilot seat
> while in flight. Maybe the glove box, or in a loop of cable
> that is tucked behind the panel. Then, if my comm crap's
> out, I pull the loop out, unplug the antenna from the radio,
> and attach it to the handheld. The down side of this idea is
> that you will be monkeying with some antenna cable while you
> might need to be flying the plane instead.
>
> Matt-
> N34RD
Message 29
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| Subject: | Loran Antenna Pre Amp |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
Hi Bob,
I am installing a Apollo 612C (3-1/8 round) Loran for back up navigation.
The antenna uses an A-6 Bulkhead Pre Amp... BNC on both ends. My question,
as I can no longer put my hands on the manual, is whether the pre amp is
mounted close to the roof mounted antenna or close to the Loran unit? Or
doesn't it matter?
Thanks,
Don B.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Adding a "T" connector in the com line? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Dave Morris wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris <dave@davemorris.com>
>
> You can't treat RF transmission lines like DC wires. A "T" connector could
> be used, but you would need to make sure you disconnect any unused coax
> going to the primary comm radio in the event you hook up the handheld. You
> don't want anything "dangling" off the direct line between the radio and
> the antenna. A better solution might be to get a $25 coax switch designed
> for VHF frequencies (example
> http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-1702C) and mount it
> on the instrument panel along with a BNC connector to allow you to switch
> between the built-in radio and any external radio you decide to plug into
> the BNC.
In fact I have a similar device that I'd be willing to
let go cheap. It is a Narco VP-16 unit, has one antenna
and two comm radio connections. It has an electric relay
that connects the antenna to Comm 1 when no power and
Comm 2 when energized.
I think I paid something like $50 or it, but since I'm
not going to use it, make me an offer off list
if you are interested.
-Dj
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: SNIMTA_SPAM Re |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:28 PM 1/14/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris <dave@davemorris.com>
>
>
>Hmmm... I don't think you can use a headphone jack in an RF application
>like that without introducing a huge impedance bump in the system. I would
>sure put an SWR bridge on the whole thing and see what happens. VHF
>circuits are very sensitive to discontinuity in the line and only
>connectors that maintain the 50 Ohm impedance should be used. I think I
>would go for Plan A.
>
>Dave Morris
I did run out to the lab and put this rig on the test
equipment . . . you can see the "bump" but it isn't
all that bad. Given that VSWR on a comm antenna over
the range of interest can be 3:1 or so, the little
discontinuity offered by the jack was no big deal . . .
but it IS a tad flimsy . . . 1/4" jack would probably
be more reliable.
Bob . . .
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Loran Antenna Pre Amp |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Neal A. Dillman" <neald@glyph.com>
Don,
If I remember correctly, That preamp is designed to work with "long-wire
antennas" (ie: an ADF antenna). The unit get's mounted to the fuselage
(it needs to see ground) next to the start of the long-wire antenna.
Regards,
Neal
Don Boardman wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>I am installing a Apollo 612C (3-1/8 round) Loran for back up navigation.
>The antenna uses an A-6 Bulkhead Pre Amp... BNC on both ends. My question,
>as I can no longer put my hands on the manual, is whether the pre amp is
>mounted close to the roof mounted antenna or close to the Loran unit? Or
>doesn't it matter?
>
>
>Thanks,
>Don B.
>
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Loran Antenna Pre Amp |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 1/14/04 9:49:53 PM Central Standard Time,
dboardm3@twcny.rr.com writes:
I am installing a Apollo 612C (3-1/8 round) Loran for back up navigation.
Good Evening Dan,
Will the Loran be a back up for a GPS?
I can see where you may feel that the GPS could be compromised by terrorist
action or even by some misguided interference by the US Military, but LORAN, at
it's very best, can't hold a candle to a one hundred dollar handheld GPS when
it comes to accuracy or routine reliability.
I have seen panel mount VFR GPS units go for one hundred dollars or less on
Ebay.
The Loran antenna is generally bigger and draggier than a GPS antenna.
The Loran will undoubtedly weigh more than a current production handheld GPS
and probably no more than an older, low cost, used, panel mount GPS
Even if I had the 612C on my shelf, I don't think I would spend the time it
took to install it in an airplane.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 34
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
HI OLD BOB,
> dboardm3@twcny.rr.com writes:
> I am installing a Apollo 612C (3-1/8 round) Loran for back up navigation.
> Good Evening Don,
>
> Will the Loran be a back up for a GPS?
YES, A KING KMD150
> I can see where you may feel that the GPS could be compromised by terrorist
> action or even by some misguided interference by the US Military,
NO NOT A CONCERN
> but LORAN, at
> it's very best, can't hold a candle to a one hundred dollar handheld GPS when
> it comes to accuracy or routine reliability.
FLOWN MANY A HAPPY HOUR WITH LORAN. WEATHER EFFECTS ON RARE OCASION.
> The Loran antenna is generally bigger and draggier than a GPS antenna.
ISN'T BIGGER BETTER,... JUST KIDDING.
> The Loran will undoubtedly weigh more than a current production handheld GPS
IN MOST CASES I'D RATHER NOT FIDDLE WITH A HANDHELD IN THE COCKPIT.
> and probably no more than an older, low cost, used, panel mount GPS
> Even if I had the 612C on my shelf, I don't think I would spend the time it
> took to install it in an airplane.
OLD BOB, YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. ON THE SELF! I SPENT $1400 IN 1988
FOR IT TO INSTALL IN A MOTORGLIDER. NEVER GOT INSTALLED. SO HAVING HAD GOOD
EXPERIENCES WITH LORAN AND REALLY LIKING THE WAY IT LOOKS, IT'S IN THE
PANEL. EMPHISIS REALLY LIKING THE WAY IT LOOKS.
> Happy Skies Old Bob,
I do appreciate your comments and in most cases sound advice.
Don B.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Loran Antenna Pre Amp |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
Hi Neal,
So are you saying that using a "real" Loran Antenna, one of those that was
designed to look like a Cessna com antenna, the pre amp is not necessary?
> If I remember correctly, That preamp is designed to work with "long-wire
> antennas" (ie: an ADF antenna). The unit get's mounted to the fuselage
> (it needs to see ground) next to the start of the long-wire antenna.
>
> Regards,
> Neal
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