Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:59 AM - Re: Main DC Power Master Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 08:02 AM - Re: Bullshooter Digital Voice Recorder (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 09:16 AM - 12vDC nominal power supply (Fergus Kyle)
4. 09:28 AM - Re: Bench Test Power Supply Size (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 10:28 AM - Re: Bench Test Power Supply Size (Mickey Coggins)
6. 11:28 AM - Re: Bench Test Power Supply Size (Gerry Holland)
7. 12:02 PM - Re: Bench Test Power Supply Size (Charlie & Tupper England)
8. 12:40 PM - Re: A Battery is you best filter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 03:27 PM - #6 Welding Cable (Don Boardman)
10. 03:32 PM - Good Stuff from other Sources.... (Eric M. Jones)
11. 04:46 PM - Re: Bench Test Power Supply Size (Larry Bowen)
12. 05:43 PM - Lightspeed Plasma II (Hi There)
13. 07:53 PM - Re: Lightspeed Plasma II (Terry Watson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Main DC Power Master Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:26 AM 1/16/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Letempt, Jeffrey CW4"
><jeffrey.letempt@us.army.mil>
>
>Bob,
>
>Thanks for the information. I would rather spend $7.50 then $19.50 for a
>switch if they accomplish the same thing.
>
>My thinking on the essential bus alternate feed circuit is that all the
>individual circuts are protected, why have that 7 amp circuit protection or
>a fusible link at all? There is no circuit protection between the battery
>and the main bus and there is no circuit protection between the battery and
>the main battery bus, why would this be any different? Seems like we are
>adding parts count for no reason.
Feeds between battery and main bus are generally really big
wires . . . that could conceivably carry as much load as
the alternator puts out. It's hard to burn a fat wire. On
the other hand, e-bus alternate feed is a smaller feed easily
smoked by fault currents that a battery can deliver. Hence
the need for something in the way of a breaker, fuse or fusible
link to limit potential for damage.
Wire between battery and battery bus is generally limited
to something on the order of 6" . . . yeah, we MIGHT burn
it but even then, consequences are limited.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Bullshooter Digital Voice Recorder |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:57 AM 1/16/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Nellis" <mike@bmnellis.com>
>
>
>***
>*** I'll suggest that the "best" way to drive a nail is with
>*** a hammer . . . and the best way to record ATC instructions
>*** is with a pencil.
>
>I agree with you on jotting down your clearance instructions with a
>pencil. However, have you built a fence lately? There's no way you can
>beat a pneumatic nailer. <grin>
You betcha . . . but then you're not studying for a test
and then taking notes by driving patterns of nails into
the wood. Voice recorders have VERY useful applications too . . .
it's the systems integration analysis where a light
sprinkle of alternative technologies can create more
problems than they solve.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | 12vDC nominal power supply |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Fellow 'hams' on net may agree with this:
In or near urban areas, there is probably an Amateur Radio
organisation which holds regular or annual "flea markets" for radio
enthusiasts. Since ham radios now are powered mostly by 12vDC, there are
often used power supplies which are variable in both voltage and current
parameters up to about 25-30 amps. The only time you find a cheap ham is
when another one notices it, so there can be bargains. Mine was $30 and
that's Canadian (about 20cents US) and I've had it for five years.
It might be worth the time.............
Ferg
Europa 914 mono
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Bench Test Power Supply Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:18 PM 1/15/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
>
>Hi Bob,
>I have dual batteries in the rear of the airplane and dual E.I., MicroAir
>radio & Xpdr, digitrak auto pilot, RMI encoder, and Grand Rapids EIS 4000
>engine monitor, and F.I. pump for fairly modest electrical requirements.
>
>I was in Radio Shack and they had three power supplies. 1.75, 3, and 10
>amps. Don't know the Volts but the archives mentioned 13.8 volts. What
>minimum amps and volts should one get to test the electrical system?
>
>Is the volts adjustable or how important is the voltage?
>
> I assume the power supply should be hooked to the battery leads. I also
> seem to remember a discussion by you for setting up the power supply in a
> certain way to duplicate what the system would see as if it were running
> off of the alternator but can't find in the archives.
>
>Thanks,
>Rick Fogerson
>RV3 wiring
>Boise, ID
The general rule of thumb is buy the biggest one you're willing to
pony up for up to the size of your alternator. If you're thumb isn't
quite that "green", then consider a supply that's big enough to
run the largest single system on your airplane. My personal favorite
(and the one I used to sell from my website) is the Samlex 1223.
One supplier of this product can be found at
http://www.aaradio.com/cartfile/misc%20html/samlex.html
This is a hefty little bugger. You can connect it to the
B-lead of your alternator and the airplane believes that
the engine is running when in fact, you've only plugged
the electrical system into the wall. This supply will
let you charge the battery and operate most systems in
combination and even the heaviest draw systems (pitot
heat, klieg lights for landing, etc.) independently.
The 13.8 volts fixed output is fine . . it won't do
a rapid battery recharge but it will put 100% charge
on a battery in a few hours.
This same supply is useful for testing individual
components and systems on the bench . . . since it
does not offer adjustable current limiting, I'd
plan on using an in-line, ATC fuse holder in series
with the feeders from this supply . . . put the smallest
practical fuse in for doing your test.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Bench Test Power Supply Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi Bob,
I just ordered this, since their web site says it
can be "user converted" to 220v input for those
of us who need that. Of course, they don't ship
outside the USA, so you better have a friend or
relative that can forward it on to you. Too bad
I didn't know about this company last month when
I was in Austin!
> ... My personal favorite
> (and the one I used to sell from my website) is the Samlex 1223.
> One supplier of this product can be found at
>
> http://www.aaradio.com/cartfile/misc%20html/samlex.html
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wings
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Bench Test Power Supply Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Have a look at:
http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/b+k%20precision/1688and1686.htm
I have a 240V version here in UK and it's been invaluable.
Seems to cost a lot more in US at $299.00 (Mine was 95.00 UK Pounds)
It's great asset is that it has an Ammeter which has proved very useful when
'loading up' Aircraft systems during wiring and testing. Three different
outputs with 2 X 3A Outputs as required.
Regards
Gerry
Gerry Holland
Europa 384 G-FIZY
Trigear with 912 and Arplast CS Prop.
Fuselage being Painted, Wings ready to paint, Flying surfaces painted
Airframe Wiring complete, Full Size Panel 50% done .
Includes Dynon EFIS, KMD 150, Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder. AoA Fitted.
Activity on Panel completion, Heater Unit.
http://www.g-fizy.com
+44 7808 402404
gnholland@onetel.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Bench Test Power Supply Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
For those that like to get multiple uses from their tools:
If all you want to do is supply ground power to the plane's systems &
aren't concerned with current measurements, etc., consider one of the
'jump start' packs available almost everywhere for as little as $40.
They contain a 12V SLA battery, an AC trickle charger, a cigar lighter
jack usable to extract medium current to your a/c, & as a bonus you get
a jump start pack to start that little-used truck or tractor with the
dead battery. For over-current protection you can add an inline fuse to
the cigar lighter cable that's usually included.
Charlie
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: A Battery is you best filter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:57 PM 1/15/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>In a previous response you indicated that "a battery is your best filter",
>and recommended bringing my #12 SD-8 feed to the SD-8 relay at the battery
>instead of feeding the e-bus fuse block behind the panel.
>
>OK, following this recommendation I was originally going to locate the SD-8
>relay close to the contactor and connect to the contactor using a sort 4"
>length of #16 fuselink. The physical lay out doing this was not ideal and
>therefore I have decided to mount the SD-8 relay adjacent to the e-bus feed
>relay. The e-bus relay is feed by the battery bus via a fuse and a short 4"
>#12 wire. And now the same holds true for the SD-8 relay, it is feed by the
>battery bus via a fuse and a short 4" #12 wire. The battery bus is close to
>the contactor feed by 5" #12. And yes the battery is only inches from the
>contactor.
>
>OK, finally to my question. Am I getting the same degree of "a battery is
>your best filter" feeding the SD-8 though the battery bus as I would have
>feeding the contactor? Sorry to make you read all of this but I am cureous
>about this filtering function of the battery?
Yes, we're slicing milliohms up here . . . what I'd like to
do is move as far away as practical from the cookie-cutter
architecture of yesteryear where alternators (and other
noise generating accessories) share the bus with potential
victims. This means get alternators tied to their smoothing
battery with the shortest practical length of fattest practical
wire.
What you'd originally proposed may have sufficed for your
needs . . . these are things we really don't know until you
try it . . . and then because your working in the OBAM aircraft
community, you can easily fix something that's not to your
liking later.
It's difficult to put a meaningful magnitude of risk on
various design decisions. From a product design perspective,
we try to apply ALL the techniques that have a basis in
physics to improve the product or reduce risk . . . but
a some point after the big dragons have been corralled,
further improvements will have diminishing and/or
negligible degrees of improvement.
Your risks are small because they're easy to fix.
Feel free to experiment with your experimental
airplane.
Bob . . .
>Last question for tonight, I promise!
>
>I do not have a electric starter (air start) and therefore no starter
>contactor. therefore I was planning to bring the main 50 amp alternator feed
>via a 60 ANL to the main distribution bus located behind the panel. I am now
>thinking that bringing the alternator feed down under the seat to the
>battery contactor (with the 60 ANL close to the contactor) could reduce
>possible noise because "a battery is your best filter" The # 6 welding
>cable used would then be running in the same raceway as my #4 + & - Fat
>wires. This will also be the main conduit for my other wire flowing from the
>panel to the fuselage. What say you Bob.
You're thoughts are running on the right track. Can you buy
#6 welding cable? Hmmm . . . I guess I've seen small electric
welders that could make good use of #6. The only thing I see
on the spools at my local favorite shop is 4, 2 and 0 . . .
In any case, what you've suggested is founded upon
rational consideration.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | #6 Welding Cable |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
Bob, thanks for your comments on "a battery is your best filter"
They help give me a direction.
> You're thoughts are running on the right track. Can you buy
> #6 welding cable? Hmmm . . . I guess I've seen small electric
> welders that could make good use of #6. The only thing I see
> on the spools at my local favorite shop is 4, 2 and 0 . . .
I was planning on using all #4 Fat wires because you felt #6 would not be
available. I went to our local welding supply and just for the hell of it
asked if they had #6. The sales girl said, sure do, how many feet do you
want. So I went with the #6 for alternator feed as called for buy the
manufacturer and saved some size and weight.
You are absolutely right about the flexibility of the welding cable. A
delight to work with.
Thanks again.
Till my next question ...
Don B
Message 10
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| Subject: | Good Stuff from other Sources.... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
There's lots of good stuff for airplanes in magazines and catalogs aimed at
a completely different crowd. Half of everything you ever wanted can be
found in yachting magazines. But my stepson will be 16 next month so hot
cars and hot babes percolate through his brain. I am thus heir to a growing
catalog library of Tune-O-Rama souped-up imports a la "The Fast and Furious"
.
I learn a lot by looking over his shoulder-new designs in vehicles, winged
or not, is booming in the Oriental-Mexican-Laid-Off-High-Tech land of El
Monte, Pomona, and Santa Fe Springs. And some of these designs are
positively brilliant! Prices are not bad either.
Entertainment systems have gone over to huge shock mounted remotely located
hard-drives, with displays and controls on flat screen videos on the panel.
Available touch-screen selections include, Audio, Video, DVD, Cameras(!).
NAV (GPS), Games, etc. See www.TRC12Volt.com.
Cool Instruments-Analog gauges were never completely taken over by digits.
Now the analog gauges are better than ever and many meters are little
flat-screens that do tricks. Round analog gauges have found a new home on
"pods" located on what they used to call the A-pillar. A great place for
high-visual value gauges. Superb lighting too, lots of Indiglo. I'd look at
these before buying from the aircraft folks.
More neat tricks-Beltronics has a neat little Performance Timer
Accelerometer. Since the thing is a timer and accelerometer coupled to a
microprocessor, they do amazing things with it. Among other things it
measures horsepower. How neat would it be to build a device that tells you
if you're going to be able to take off in the available runway using such a
device as a start?
Heads-up displays-see www.holosport.com.
Titanium mufflers, HID lights, LEDs, racing seats, mixture gauges (I never
suspected that anyone made these!), control stick booties-you WISH your
engine compartment and interior could look this good! Now where do they get
those young babes in the carbon-fiber bikinis?
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
ps: Bob---That's a battery am you best filter ...
Message 11
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| Subject: | Bench Test Power Supply Size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I found the post below in the archives from 2002. I've had the PS below
since then. It has worked great and done everything I need to do while
wiring and testing the plane. Postponing the battery purchase as long
as possible is a good thing..
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Radio Shack's website at http://www.radioshack.com now
sells the Samlex SEC1223 for less that I used to buy
it wholesale. Go to their website and enter
910-3916 as a search term. I think the description is
in error. It's really a 13.8 volt, 23A switchmode
power supply. I sold about two dozen of them from
our website catalog a coupld of years ago and gave
a few away at weekend seminars. 23A will run EVERYTHING
in your airplane as long as you don't turn pitot heat
on too . . . It's on sale right now for $89.00 . . .
Snap 'em up guys, this is a good price for that much
snort in a power supply.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Lightspeed Plasma II |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hi There <rv90619@yahoo.com>
I have a lightspeed plasma II. I ordered a II+ but this is what showed up. I
was thinking of keeping it if I can get a tach signal out of it. I don't need
the other options the II+ has and the 150 bucks back would be nice. Anyone know
if it's possible? I sent a note to lightspeed but I can't wait until Monday
to decide what to do. I leave on a three week long business trip early Monday
morning.
Thanks
Cam
---------------------------------
Message 13
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| Subject: | Lightspeed Plasma II |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Cam,
Blue Mountain Avionics EFIS/one can use signals from the Plasma II for RPM,
but keep in mind that they are taking the output and running it through a
computer to get the RPM displayed. I understand this also means that if you
have one mag and one Plasma II as I do, you can't get a RPM reading on a mag
check.
Terry
RV-8A wiring
Seattle
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hi There <rv90619@yahoo.com>
I have a lightspeed plasma II. I ordered a II+ but this is what showed up.
I was thinking of keeping it if I can get a tach signal out of it. I don't
need the other options the II+ has and the 150 bucks back would be nice.
Anyone know if it's possible? I sent a note to lightspeed but I can't wait
until Monday to decide what to do. I leave on a three week long business
trip early Monday morning.
Thanks
Cam
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