Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:11 AM - Re: Molex Pins (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 09:46 AM - Understanding the E-Buss (Julia)
3. 12:27 PM - Re: Understanding the E-Buss (Matt Prather)
4. 12:58 PM - Roll-Your-Own OVP (Mark Steitle)
5. 01:42 PM - High Current Automotive Relays (flmike)
6. 02:44 PM - Re: High Current Automotive Relays (Wallace Enga)
7. 03:09 PM - Re: Understanding the E-Buss (flyv35b)
8. 05:01 PM - Re: Understanding the E-Buss (Matt Prather)
9. 05:22 PM - UPS Apollo SL Stack (Terrence Gardner)
10. 05:34 PM - Re: UPS Apollo SL Stack (Larry Bowen)
11. 08:29 PM - Wondering if.......... (hausding, sid)
12. 08:36 PM - Re: Wondering if.......... (BobsV35B@aol.com)
13. 09:28 PM - Re: High Current Automotive Relays (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 10:17 PM - Re: Wondering if.......... (richard@riley.net)
15. 10:26 PM - Current leak? (hollandm)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:26 PM 1/20/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Letempt, Jeffrey CW4"
><jeffrey.letempt@us.army.mil>
>
>Bob,
>
>I have a Narco AT-150 transponder that I need to re-wire. I know that I
>need Molex 1917-T pins so I searched the AeroElectric archives. There it
>was, back in July of 2003 you posted a link for the pins and plug. Problem
>solved......except the link no longer works :<(
>
>Do you have an updated source for these pins? I did a hasty Google search
>and came up empty handed. Any help would be greatly appreciated sir.
>
>Jeff
>
>p.s. - here are the old links
That was the address of our old server . . . got a new
one at:
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connector
You can buy bag of 15 of these at:
http://www.action-electronics.com/molex.htm
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Understanding the E-Buss |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia <wings97302@yahoo.com>
Bob:
Im wiring my RV following Bobs diagram Z-xx (Generic light aircraft
electrical system (alternator w/built-in regulator).
Question: The E-Buss is fed from the Battery buss with 16 gage wire & a
switch. It is also fed via the diode with 16 gage wire. If all of the
components listed on the E-Buss are on, isnt that going to draw quite a
bit of power more than the 16 gage wire can handle?? In my case I have
a booster pump for a fuel injected engine it looks like it might draw
quite a bit of juice what should I do here this booster fuel pump is
certainly an essential item and so should go on the E-buss.
If you are going down you turn off the Master switch and then have NO
power behind the firewall a good thing. With this Battery buss you end
up with a small 16 gage hot wire coming back behind the firewall is
this not a big deal since its a small wire and would short and fry
quickly in a crash as opposed to a scenario where one had a 6 gage wire,
which might cause quite an electical mess before it fried? Could someone
please help me understand this.
Thanks.
---------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Understanding the E-Buss |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Hi Julia (I think that's your name - I don't see a signature),
I saw this before, and no responses, so I decided to take a stab
at it... Comments below.
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia <wings97302@yahoo.com>
>
> Bob:
>
> Im wiring my RV following Bobs diagram Z-xx (Generic light aircraft
> electrical system (alternator w/built-in regulator).
>
> Question: The E-Buss is fed from the Battery buss with 16 gage wire & a
> switch. It is also fed via the diode with 16 gage wire. If all of the
> components listed on the E-Buss are on, isnt that going to draw quite a
> bit of power more than the 16 gage wire can handle?? In my case I
You will need to do a power budget for each bus on the airplane to
determine wire size. If it turns out that you need to support more
continuous current load than a 16g wire will carry, then by all means
you will need to upsize this feed. Keep in mind that a short 16g feed
(where thermal concerns rule) should be good for upwards of 10A
continuous. The longer the feed, the more you need to be concerned
about overall voltage drop (the R term in V=IR grows), and so a larger
wire would be appropriate. Bob has a good page on picking wire size at
the following link. I found it by looking near the bottom of the rest of
the downloadable materials on his page.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/wiresize.pdf
have
> a booster pump for a fuel injected engine it looks like it might draw
> quite a bit of juice what should I do here this booster fuel pump is
"looks like it might draw quite a bit of juice" is a pretty subjective
rating. When choosing components for your electrical system, you need
to get real data regarding the actual current demand of the installed
component. You can sometimes get this from the manufacturer.
However, there is no substitute for taking actual measurements with
an ammeter on the bench. Often manufactures list peak current instead of
typical load. Its best to take data on the device for both the turn on
transient state, and the continuous demand of the device. As Bob has
said, an analog meter is best. Size the wire for the expected continuous
load.
When measuring the current demand of a pump, there is good reason
to take the data when the pump is actually moving liquid.
> certainly an essential item and so should go on the E-buss.
>
> If you are going down you turn off the Master switch and then have NO
> power behind the firewall a good thing. With this Battery buss you end
> up with a small 16 gage hot wire coming back behind the firewall is
> this not a big deal since its a small wire and would short and fry
> quickly in a crash as opposed to a scenario where one had a 6 gage
> wire, which might cause quite an electical mess before it fried? Could
> someone please help me understand this.
The battery bus should be located very close to the battery with as
short a feed as possible. If the battery is on the hot side of the
firewall, it probably makes the most sense to locate the battery bus
on the hot side too. This makes it so that it doesn't need special
protection.
If you crash, the worst that can happen electricallyis that the short feed
between the battery and the battery bus gets faulted, though its unlikly,
if it was installed with care in the first place. If it does fault, the
risk of it causing a fire is minimal. Seems like you could put a fusible
link on it, if it makes you more comfortable.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
Regards,
Matt-
Message 4
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| Subject: | Roll-Your-Own OVP |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Steitle <msteitle@mail.utexas.edu>
Bob,
A fellow builder and myself have built an OVP unit based on the schematic
on the B&C site (Dwg. Rev. 4/16/2). So far all the smoke is still in the
IC's. It has be a fun and educational experience. However, when
attempting to calibrate the assembled unit, we can't get it to trip as it
should. Could you possibly shed some light on where we may have gone
wrong? We are electronic novices, so it was a little unclear as to which
leads were which on the transistors. If you could verify the correct leads
on the attached sketch it would be helpful.
Also, there are two different schematics on the B&C site. Would the one
labeled AEC9003-14 / AEC9003-28 be a better choice as it has half as many
parts.
Mark S.
Message 5
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| Subject: | High Current Automotive Relays |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: flmike <flmike2001@yahoo.com>
Bob and others,
Would the Tyco/P&B VF7 relay be suitable for an
alternator disconnect relay? It's rated for 70 amps
continuous and hundreds of amps for short periods.
The only obvious issue I can see is the connection
method. The tab style terminals aren't real handy for
the larger gauge wires, although I have some 0.375
"Fast-on's" that handle up to 2 gauge (I think) that
would be interesting to try and put a "B" crimp on! I
suppose you could also drill the tab and bolt a ring
terminal to it.
Any comments?
Mike
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/datasheets/Automotive_Relays/VF7_DS.pdf
__________________________________
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: High Current Automotive Relays |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Wallace Enga <wenga@svtv.com>
Mike,
Take a look at the Kilovac EV200 AAANA Continuous Duty Contractor, also.
I am using it for my alternator O.V. disconnect --- has only a 0.11amp
holding current at 14V.
Specs at:
http://www.nucletron.de/nuvte/pdf/EV200.pdf
Onlinecomponents sells them for about $85 at:
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/default.htm
Wally
At 01:41 PM 1/21/04 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: flmike <flmike2001@yahoo.com>
>
>Bob and others,
>Would the Tyco/P&B VF7 relay be suitable for an
>alternator disconnect relay?
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Understanding the E-Buss |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@juno.com>
Actually, a single copper wire (Tefzel - 150 C rating) in free air at 60 C
ambient temperature is good for about 28 amps continuous. You then derate
that if it is routed in a bundle and for altitude. 10 wires in a bundle at
80% load factor would bring the current rating down to 12.5 amps at 20,000
ft. (the wired is able to dissipate less heat at altitude than down low).
All of this is spelled out in the newer AC43.13-1B.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Understanding the E-Buss
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather"
<mprather@spro.net>
>
>
> Hi Julia (I think that's your name - I don't see a signature),
>
> I saw this before, and no responses, so I decided to take a stab
> at it... Comments below.
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Julia <wings97302@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Bob:
> >
> > Im wiring my RV following Bobs diagram Z-xx (Generic light aircraft
> > electrical system (alternator w/built-in regulator).
> >
> > Question: The E-Buss is fed from the Battery buss with 16 gage wire & a
> > switch. It is also fed via the diode with 16 gage wire. If all of the
> > components listed on the E-Buss are on, isnt that going to draw quite a
> > bit of power more than the 16 gage wire can handle?? In my case I
>
> You will need to do a power budget for each bus on the airplane to
> determine wire size. If it turns out that you need to support more
> continuous current load than a 16g wire will carry, then by all means
> you will need to upsize this feed. Keep in mind that a short 16g feed
> (where thermal concerns rule) should be good for upwards of 10A
> continuous. The longer the feed, the more you need to be concerned
> about overall voltage drop (the R term in V=IR grows), and so a larger
> wire would be appropriate. Bob has a good page on picking wire size at
> the following link. I found it by looking near the bottom of the rest of
> the downloadable materials on his page.
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/wiresize.pdf
>
> have
> > a booster pump for a fuel injected engine it looks like it might draw
> > quite a bit of juice what should I do here this booster fuel pump is
>
>
> "looks like it might draw quite a bit of juice" is a pretty subjective
> rating. When choosing components for your electrical system, you need
> to get real data regarding the actual current demand of the installed
> component. You can sometimes get this from the manufacturer.
> However, there is no substitute for taking actual measurements with
> an ammeter on the bench. Often manufactures list peak current instead of
> typical load. Its best to take data on the device for both the turn on
> transient state, and the continuous demand of the device. As Bob has
> said, an analog meter is best. Size the wire for the expected continuous
> load.
>
> When measuring the current demand of a pump, there is good reason
> to take the data when the pump is actually moving liquid.
>
> > certainly an essential item and so should go on the E-buss.
> >
> > If you are going down you turn off the Master switch and then have NO
> > power behind the firewall a good thing. With this Battery buss you end
> > up with a small 16 gage hot wire coming back behind the firewall is
> > this not a big deal since its a small wire and would short and fry
> > quickly in a crash as opposed to a scenario where one had a 6 gage
> > wire, which might cause quite an electical mess before it fried? Could
> > someone please help me understand this.
>
> The battery bus should be located very close to the battery with as
> short a feed as possible. If the battery is on the hot side of the
> firewall, it probably makes the most sense to locate the battery bus
> on the hot side too. This makes it so that it doesn't need special
> protection.
>
> If you crash, the worst that can happen electricallyis that the short feed
> between the battery and the battery bus gets faulted, though its unlikly,
> if it was installed with care in the first place. If it does fault, the
> risk of it causing a fire is minimal. Seems like you could put a fusible
> link on it, if it makes you more comfortable.
>
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
>
> Regards,
>
> Matt-
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Understanding the E-Buss |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Perfect.... Thanks!
I had just looked at the chart, picked the most conservative
corner and said that 16g was at least as good as that.
Regards,
Matt-
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@juno.com>
>
> Actually, a single copper wire (Tefzel - 150 C rating) in free air at 60
> C ambient temperature is good for about 28 amps continuous. You then
> derate that if it is routed in a bundle and for altitude. 10 wires in a
> bundle at 80% load factor would bring the current rating down to 12.5
> amps at 20,000 ft. (the wired is able to dissipate less heat at altitude
> than down low).
>
> All of this is spelled out in the newer AC43.13-1B.
>
> Cliff A&P/IA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Message 9
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| Subject: | UPS Apollo SL Stack |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terrence Gardner" <ttandt@mindspring.com>
I am installing an SL15M, SL30, and SL70 in my RV9. According to the
installation instructions no fewer than 4 different D-Sub crimpers are
required. Could someone with experience in this installation enlighten me
as to what is actually required in the crimping arena to properly install
this equipment. Thanks in advance.
Terry Gardner
RV9A -Avionics/Electrical/Finishing
Message 10
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| Subject: | UPS Apollo SL Stack |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I've installed the SL30 and SL70 in my RV-8. They were "prewired" from
when I bought them from Stark, but there was *plenty* of wiring left to
do. I only used one crimper, the one from Bob's/B&C's website, the
"D-Sub Machined Pins Crimp Tool", which I highly recommend. I don't
remember seeing a need for any other type of crimper.
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 FWF
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Terrence Gardner [mailto:ttandt@mindspring.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:22 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: UPS Apollo SL Stack
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terrence Gardner"
> --> <ttandt@mindspring.com>
>
> I am installing an SL15M, SL30, and SL70 in my RV9. According
> to the installation instructions no fewer than 4 different
> D-Sub crimpers are required. Could someone with experience in
> this installation enlighten me as to what is actually
> required in the crimping arena to properly install this
> equipment. Thanks in advance.
>
>
> Terry Gardner
> RV9A -Avionics/Electrical/Finishing
Message 11
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| Subject: | Wondering if.......... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Anybody have a source for buying a few (apprx 10) Eaton-Heinemann KD-1 push
type circuit breakers?
They are small, tubular type, panel mounted with 1/2" hole, and come in
sizes 0.5 through 15 amps........ I'm considering using these in place of
fuseholders on my panel for most applications.
I can find dealers and distributors, but they all want large money orders in
the trillions.
Thanks for any leads..........
Sid sidh@charter.net
Alpena, Mi (APN)
N204S
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Wondering if.......... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 1/21/04 10:30:23 PM Central Standard Time,
sidh@charter.net writes:
Thanks for any leads..........
Good Evening Sid,
Newark Electronics, Catalog 120. Page 938.
They are available individually or in larger groups at lower prices.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: High Current Automotive Relays |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:41 PM 1/21/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: flmike <flmike2001@yahoo.com>
>
>Bob and others,
>Would the Tyco/P&B VF7 relay be suitable for an
>alternator disconnect relay? It's rated for 70 amps
>continuous and hundreds of amps for short periods.
>The only obvious issue I can see is the connection
>method. The tab style terminals aren't real handy for
>the larger gauge wires, although I have some 0.375
>"Fast-on's" that handle up to 2 gauge (I think) that
>would be interesting to try and put a "B" crimp on! I
>suppose you could also drill the tab and bolt a ring
>terminal to it.
>
>Any comments?
That critter is mechanically too flimsy to hang
that size wire on. Further, I wouldn't run a fast-on
at those current levels. The fast-ons are fine
at the currents one would expect as continuous
loads from the biggest accessory, i.e. pitot heat
or something on the order of 15A.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Wondering if.......... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
At 11:27 PM 1/21/04 -0500, hausding, sid wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
>
>Anybody have a source for buying a few (apprx 10) Eaton-Heinemann KD-1 push
>type circuit breakers?
I love dealing with these guys
http://www.flamecorp.com/products.html. They've always been happy to sell
to me in small quantities, for single airplanes.
Message 15
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "hollandm" <hollandm@pacbell.net>
When the battery master is off I can still measure about 0.5 to 0.7 volts after
the battery master contactor. With the master on and the relay closed it measures
full battery voltage so the contactor is mechanically OK.
Is it normal for a contactor to "leak" a low voltage when open? There is a diode
between the relay and the hot side. Could this be the source of the leak?
My concern is that the contactor may be defective and a small voltage leak may
result in a dead battery, if it can find a path to ground.
Thanks
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