Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:04 AM - Groton, CT (JOHNATHAN MACY)
2. 07:40 AM - Re: Groton, CT (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 08:45 AM - Re: Blue-Sea #5026 Fuse Block (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 09:42 AM - Re: Alternator Replacement (Bob (Rocketboy))
5. 09:47 AM - Power supplies (Bob (Rocketboy))
6. 05:51 PM - Fan generating power?? (Jon Finley)
7. 06:36 PM - Re: Fan generating power?? (Robert McCallum)
8. 09:57 PM - Re: Fan generating power?? (Ned Thomas)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: JOHNATHAN MACY <bushpilot@optonline.net>
Bob -
I have signed up to attend you Groton, CT session. I have ordered a firewall forward
package which includes the electrical design. I am attending you course
to learn more because there are several things in their design I just do not
like. Is it appropriate to bring the drawings along to be able to ask questions?
If not, just tell me, I do not want to infringe on the course or your time.
- Johnathan
Message 2
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:03 AM 1/24/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: JOHNATHAN MACY
><bushpilot@optonline.net>
>
>Bob -
>
>I have signed up to attend you Groton, CT session. I have ordered a
>firewall forward package which includes the electrical design. I am
>attending you course to learn more because there are several things in
>their design I just do not like. Is it appropriate to bring the drawings
>along to be able to ask questions? If not, just tell me, I do not want to
>infringe on the course or your time. - Johnathan
No problem. My time and experience is there for
you. That's what you're paying for.
See you in March.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Blue-Sea #5026 Fuse Block |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:19 AM 1/23/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Neubauer"
><mark.neubauer@genmar.com>
<snip>
>My reason for sending the message is simple: I merely want to share a good
>thing with fellow builders. Anything that makes an individual's homebuilt
>aircraft safer and better helps all of us.
>
>Regarding Bob's comments, here are my thoughts:
>
>Item 1:
>
>It seems to me that a screwed connection, with a ring-type crimped
>connector, is better electrically than a Fast-On tab. (Bob, I know you
>refute this in the Connection - and I'm a big fan of your design
>philosophy) The surface area of the contact (basically a small annular
>surface), which is under high pressure (i.e.. low contact resistance) from
>the screwhead's pressure,
But what are the relative pressures? You use words like
small, high, low, etc but what are the numbers and how
do they relate to each other? Unless you put enough pressure
on two pieces of metal to cause metal to change
shape (i.e. exceeded the compression strength of
the material) you don't achieve gas-tight metal to metal
bonding. I've removed ring terminals from fat treaded
studs where one can see imprinting of the fastening hardware
on the surface of the ring terminal. It gets squashed
by clamp-up forces. Not easy to do with hardware under 10-32
in size and certainly not achievable with 6-32 or 8-32 screws
threaded into holes punched into sheet metal parts.
The fast-on plows a groove in the tab . . . forces
greater than the tab material can resist have bared
fresh, sub-surface material. Further, as the joint
ages, pressures do not materially change (unless you
have funky fast-ons of poor material) so ANY motion
tends to dig the terminal's magic-points-of-contact
in deeper.
Motion in a threaded fastener join tends to loosen
the joint and allows ingress of moisture and oxygen
. . . every time . . . unless one takes
the extra step to glue it. Tread-locking improves
longevity but hampers future maintenance efforts.
> is better than the two lines of contact with a Fast-On. (You can argue
> that the "back" of the Fast-On connector also makes contact but this is
> relatively low pressure and subject to oxidation).
if "better" means higher contact pressure over the lifetime
of the joint, then the fast-on has it hands down.
If you have some other definition of better, we
need to know what it is and examine its physics.
>Further, the screwed-post/ring-fastener attachment method lends itself
>better to multiple circuits feeding from one fuse.
Why is this a good deal? I thought the super low price
and availably of fuse-holder slots versus acres-of-breakers
offered us a way to have EVERY accessory enjoy its OWN
independently protected source.
>(don't worry, I'm only talking about low-amp stuff like panel lights,
>etc.) Next, using a drop of blue Lock-Tite on the threaded portion of the
>screw (NOT the area around the screw) will provide vibration "proof-ness"
>without electrical resistance. Finally, all electrical attachment points
>are chrome-plated which will prevent long-term resistance change due to
>oxidation.
But you'll never see a chrome plated terminal or connector
product offered by AMP, Molex, Cannon, Ampehnol, etc. etc.
Wonder why . . . .
> (If you want to see electrical problems raise their ugly head, try
> working these issues on a marine vessel - which is just about always at
> 100% relative humidity)
>
>Item 2:
>The unit has 12 ground posts, and it is a no-brainer that I could attach 2
>or 3 grounds to one post.
Which induces single points of failure for multiple accessories
and reduces probability of gas-tight connection between all
current carrying devices. If multiple terminals are brought together
in certified ships you'll see a technique like this:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/BigMash.jpg
This picture was taken of a mini-bus in nose
compartment of a biz-jet. Unpressurized. Open
to atmospheric breezes. Rains inside on EVERY decent
from altitude. Full range of temperature cycles.
The fasteners that hold multiple terminals together are
10-32 steel studs with all-metal locknuts on them. They're
typically driven with air-motors having calibrated torque
clutches on them. I suggest that a detailed study of the
differences between clamp up forces and long-term
joint integrity for this technique versus fasteners
driven into sheet metal threads with a screw-driver
are considerably different, Loctited or not.
> Besides, with my two fuse blocks on the aircraft, and a multiple
> ground-post strip on the firewall, I'm well covered on ground attach points.
Oh, then you don't intend to use the threaded fastener
ground block on the fuseholder . . .
I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Please
assemble your airplane in a manner that suits you best.
I'm only offering the simple-ideas in physics and
practice that are the foundations of the best we
know how to do. Whether or not these are useful to
you is a determination only you can make.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator Replacement |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob (Rocketboy)" <f1rocketboy@bellsouth.net>
look here....it might help...
http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/alternator.htm
Warmest Regards,
Bob Gross
For the latest F1 progress, click here..
www.F1-Rocketboy.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian DalPorto" <dalporto.brian@ssd.loral.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Replacement
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brian DalPorto"
<dalporto.brian@ssd.loral.com>
>
> I have an O-290 with a GM alternator that has been modified to match the
> existing case mounted bracket. the alternator is going bad, the bearings
> make noise and I can here a whine in my head sets. The modification on
> the existing alternator was to cut away half of the wide mounting boss
> on the alternator and insert a spacer on the back side to move the
> alternator forward to line up the pulleys. Would like to replace this
> alternator with an automotive type Nippondenso and use the brackets I
> have. So my questions are;
>
> 1. Does anybody know if there is a Nippondenso alternator that will fit
> the lycoming case mounted bracket? If so what is the part number?
>
> 2. Does anybody know of someone who makes case mounted brackets like the
> one that ASAS sells for the boss mount?
>
> 3. Counting on having to make my own bracket, what alternator would be
> recomended?
>
> Brian
> Marquart MA-5 Charger
>
>
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob (Rocketboy)" <f1rocketboy@bellsouth.net>
This is kinda like spam (sorry), but entertaining none the less for you guys
doing power supplies to run all those computerized avionics.
http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/power.htm
Warmest Regards,
Bob Gross
For the latest F1 progress, click here..
www.F1-Rocketboy.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fan generating power?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net>
Hi all,
I was recently having a discussion with someone regarding the addition
of an automotive radiator fan to my cooling system. This person warned
me that these fans can produce power when free-wheeling (spinning from
the air blowing thru them). Is there anything to this or just another
old wives tale?? If there is, how does one "solve" this (ground both
positive and negative fan wires when fan is off??)?
Thanks!
Jon Finley
N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 461 Hrs. TT
Apple Valley, Minnesota
http://www.FinleyWeb.net/Q2Subaru
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fan generating power?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Jon Finley wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net>
>
>Hi all,
>
>I was recently having a discussion with someone regarding the addition
>of an automotive radiator fan to my cooling system. This person warned
>me that these fans can produce power when free-wheeling (spinning from
>the air blowing thru them). Is there anything to this or just another
>old wives tale?? If there is, how does one "solve" this (ground both
>positive and negative fan wires when fan is off??)?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Jon Finley
>
Jon, what's to "solve"??? Why do you care if the fan produces power when
freewheeling??? If it is a permanent magnet motor it will in fact
produce some power when driven by the wind but it's not connected to
anything so shouldn't cause any problem. It's the same as your battery
sitting there without a connection. Voltage present but no current
flowing. If the fan is connected (turned on) and is overdriven fast
enough by the wind it acts as a generator reducing the load (however
slightly) on your alternator. (but increasing the aerodynamic drag of
your airframe.) Connecting both motor leads together and/or grounding
them will result in a direct short for this generated power causing even
more drag and some heating within the motor. Driving the motor at its
rated speed will produce roughly rated voltage. (shorting the motor may
not be the best idea)
Bob McC
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fan generating power?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net>
Hi John,
I used to own an RV6A with a Chevy V6 engine. It had an electric fan on the
radiator that I eventually removed because it was no longer needed.
However, when in flight the fan motor created static in the radio unless I
kept the power switch to it turned on. I had built Bob's static filter but
did not get to try it out befoe removing the fan. After I completely sealed
the baffles the fan was no longer needed.
Ned
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fan generating power??
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jon Finley" <jon@finleyweb.net>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I was recently having a discussion with someone regarding the addition
> of an automotive radiator fan to my cooling system. This person warned
> me that these fans can produce power when free-wheeling (spinning from
> the air blowing thru them). Is there anything to this or just another
> old wives tale?? If there is, how does one "solve" this (ground both
> positive and negative fan wires when fan is off??)?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jon Finley
> N90MG Q2 - Subaru EJ-22 DD - 461 Hrs. TT
> Apple Valley, Minnesota
> http://www.FinleyWeb.net/Q2Subaru
>
>
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