Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:47 AM - Re: Quick connects (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
2. 06:06 AM - ov protection for internal v.r. alternators (klehman@albedo.net)
3. 08:28 AM - Re: ov protection for internal v.r. alternators (Clay R)
4. 09:01 AM - Re: Alternator Field Wiring (John Schroeder)
5. 09:01 AM - Power supplies (Fergus Kyle)
6. 12:09 PM - Re: Re: ov protection for internal v.r. alternators (Ned Thomas)
7. 01:47 PM - Re: Quick connects (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 05:25 PM - Re: Quick connects (Dan Checkoway)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Quick connects |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
In a message dated 1/30/2004 3:01:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dan@rvproject.com writes:
All of the suggestions given are good ones. The problem with using a
connector, though, is that if you need to remove the elevator, you'll have
to remove the connector...not convenient. (at least that's the way it is on
an RV...just a small round hole for the wire to pass through the elevator
spar)
Here's what I did instead:
http://www.rvproject.com/20040124.html
Hello Dan,
As an electronics professional, hobbyist and aviation nut, it is good to see
someone else finding some clever short cuts that I thought I owned in the
privacy of my shop 8
). Truthfully, many of us have used this "cheapest
connector" idea for some years. But, it is more than just cheap as you have pointed
out. It is a very small, reliable connection technique and if you stagger the
connection pins a bit, there is no smaller total diameter method that I know of
to connect a few wires in line for future easy disconnect.
Another advantage is the ease in making the actual connections-one at a time
in free space-not fighting to get to one pin in a nest of several. I also
like "Dean's Connectors" as someone else mentioned. Dean's connectors are small,
light, have very good contact pressures but they are a chore to solder the
wires to if you are our age. (let's just say over 40) The Dean's connectors
also suffer a diameter penalty in areas where that is an issue.
Back to D-sub pins again, I have epoxied female pins just inside of small
electronic goodies over the years. You drill a hole in the plastic shell of
whatever device and cement the female pin inside. Cables of just a few wires with
male pins connected and heat shrunk shielded are "plugged" in. Two holes in
the side of a plastic cased goody backed up with female pins can be jumpered
together with a "U" shaped pin where a function may be "jumpered" "out" or "in"
for different functions.
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
Message 2
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| Subject: | ov protection for internal v.r. alternators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: klehman@albedo.net
This is one of my remaining concerns as well. I'm using a different less
common small alternator and the internal v.r. for it happens to be a bit
expensive. I've seen several cautions regarding the requirement to have
a battery in the circuit to stabilize alternators. If it is unstable, I
can imagine excess voltage damaging the internal v.r. after the load is
disconnected. That makes me think that a switch (Bat Master/Alt.) to
allow disconnecting the ov relay while the engine is running may not be
a good idea. Likewise my concern about ov protection unless I can be
quite confident that no random erroneous disconnects are going to occur.
A real ov event is not a concern of course as in that event the internal
v.r. would almost certainly be already toasted.
Ken
>>>After talking to Vans, they said I probably blew the
>>>voltage regulator by switching off the field that
>>>disconnected the B-lead at the contactor. Switching
>>>off field after it has started doesn't stop the
>>>alternator because it gets field power from the
>>>B-lead. They said they've been seeing this a lot
>>>lately on alternators wired per z-24.
>>>
>>>Would it be an accurate statement to say that:
>>>"Turning off the alt field after it has been turned on
>>>for an internally regulated alternator wired as
>>>depicted in Z-24 is a death sentence for the
>>>alternator. An overvolt condition will also open the
>>>contactor and finish off the alternator for good."
>>>
>>>If so, this might be a handy piece of information to
>>>add to that diagram because it would have saved me
>>>some trouble.
>
> This is the first I've heard of it. Gee, if Van's
> has seen a rash of these events, it would have been
> really nice of them to let me know about it.
>
> I'm looking into this. Watch this space.
>
> Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | re: ov protection for internal v.r. alternators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Clay R <clayr_55@yahoo.com>
Now I see the following warning on Vans web site on
the alternator page. (I think this was added this
week)
Warning!
The internally regulated 60 ampere alternator should
not be used with overvoltage protection systems. If
you open the charging circuit while it is in
operation, it will destroy the regulator.
-Clay
__________________________________
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator Field Wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Bob -
18 AWG and 22 AWGfuse link is it. Thanks
John
Do not archive
>
> If the wire between bus and regulator is long (say over
> 6 feet) we'd like to minimize resistance . . . I'd
> go 18/22 just for grins. Otherwise 20/24 is fine.
>
> Bob . . .
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Bob,
" Unless your strobe supply has been sitting on the shelf for years,
that time honored slow crank-up procedure isn't really useful. It
was most useful 30 years ago before electrolytic capacitor technology
really came of age . . ."
Yeah, understood - 'cept the book that came with it says so, so
maybe I've been harbouring this since '97. Of course as you have so clearly
noted previously, manufacturers aren't ALWAYS right.............
Cheers, Ferg
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: re: ov protection for internal v.r. alternators |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net>
For what it is worth,
I had an internally regulated alternator on my RV6A. I had an Overvoltage
occur and had no way to shut it off except land and turn off the engine.
When I smelled the battery acid cooking out I was quite concerned. I was
able to land before ruining the battery but even tho I immediately turned
off the master when I found the voltmeter reading high, I did find that one
of my strobes had fried. After this happened I installled the OV protection
recommended by Bob. In the event you do encounter an OV situation you must
be able to isolate the alternator. I was lucky, the battery could have
blown up...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clay R" <clayr_55@yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: re: ov protection for internal v.r. alternators
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Clay R <clayr_55@yahoo.com>
>
> Now I see the following warning on Vans web site on
> the alternator page. (I think this was added this
> week)
>
> Warning!
> The internally regulated 60 ampere alternator should
> not be used with overvoltage protection systems. If
> you open the charging circuit while it is in
> operation, it will destroy the regulator.
>
> -Clay
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Quick connects |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:46 AM 1/31/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 1/30/2004 3:01:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>dan@rvproject.com writes:
>All of the suggestions given are good ones. The problem with using a
>connector, though, is that if you need to remove the elevator, you'll have
>to remove the connector...not convenient. (at least that's the way it is on
>an RV...just a small round hole for the wire to pass through the elevator
>spar)
>
>Here's what I did instead:
>
>http://www.rvproject.com/20040124.html
>Hello Dan,
>
>As an electronics professional, hobbyist and aviation nut, it is good to see
>someone else finding some clever short cuts that I thought I owned in the
>privacy of my shop 8
>). Truthfully, many of us have used this "cheapest
>connector" idea for some years. But, it is more than just cheap as you
>have pointed
>out. It is a very small, reliable connection technique and if you stagger
>the
>connection pins a bit, there is no smaller total diameter method that I
>know of
>to connect a few wires in line for future easy disconnect.
>
>Another advantage is the ease in making the actual connections-one at a time
>in free space-not fighting to get to one pin in a nest of several. I also
>like "Dean's Connectors" as someone else mentioned. Dean's connectors are
>small,
>light, have very good contact pressures but they are a chore to solder the
>wires to if you are our age. (let's just say over 40) The Dean's connectors
>also suffer a diameter penalty in areas where that is an issue.
>
>Back to D-sub pins again, I have epoxied female pins just inside of small
>electronic goodies over the years. You drill a hole in the plastic shell of
>whatever device and cement the female pin inside. Cables of just a few
>wires with
>male pins connected and heat shrunk shielded are "plugged" in. Two holes in
>the side of a plastic cased goody backed up with female pins can be jumpered
>together with a "U" shaped pin where a function may be "jumpered" "out" or
>"in"
>for different functions.
Just one caution. When examining connectors classically
used in aircraft, one can see attention paid to protection
of the pin-socket joints and making sure that tension on
the wires won't open a joint. Unless you're working with
butt-splices, knife splices, and soldered joints, etc. where
resistance to tension are inherent in the technology, make
sure your quest for miniaturization and/or convenience doesn't
increased potential for failures that could make you
uncomfortable. I offered the d-sub pins and heat shrink
for compact thermocouple splicing . . . but then opening that
joint in flight doesn't affect flight system performance.
I don't intend to splash cold water on any innovative
techniques . . . only a word to the wise to think through
the failure mode effects analysis for any out-of-the-ordinary
usage of parts. Question: do you KNOW how difficult it is
to handle the airplane with a pitch trim actuator stuck at
either extreme? Of course this question goes to reliability
of ALL components in the pitch trim system, not just novel
approaches to miniature connectors.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Quick connects |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Thanks for the reality check.
In answer to your question, I don't know for sure that the plane is
manageable in a full out-of-trim condition. I've heard that RVs aren't a
problem in that configuration (although not pleasant), and that's the
assumption I'll run with until I have a chance to test it out first-hand in
this particular plane.
My feeling is that the D-subs-only approach is ok until the plane is
painted. Once the elevators are finally reinstalled (essentially done being
R&R'd come hell or high water), I think it makes sense at that point to use
a D-9 connector (or something like it). I figure it would be painless to
add the connector in the future since the pins and sockets are already
wired. ;-)
I guess my real point was that if you know ahead of time that the elevator
needs to be removed, and you want to avoid cutting wires, the pins & sockets
only approach is "convenient" (if not robust & foolproof).
I don't mean to be defensive, and I really appreciate your point. I'm
actually thinking that some sense of strain relief can be had by
tie-wrapping the wires in an "S" (connectors in the middle of the S, so to
speak) so that there can't be any direct tension on the pin/socket
connections. I believe I have enough slack to do that.
Anyway, thanks again, I'm just babbling, done now... 8-)
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Quick connects
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 08:46 AM 1/31/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
> >
> >In a message dated 1/30/2004 3:01:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> >dan@rvproject.com writes:
> >All of the suggestions given are good ones. The problem with using a
> >connector, though, is that if you need to remove the elevator, you'll
have
> >to remove the connector...not convenient. (at least that's the way it is
on
> >an RV...just a small round hole for the wire to pass through the elevator
> >spar)
> >
> >Here's what I did instead:
> >
> >http://www.rvproject.com/20040124.html
> >Hello Dan,
> >
> >As an electronics professional, hobbyist and aviation nut, it is good to
see
> >someone else finding some clever short cuts that I thought I owned in the
> >privacy of my shop 8
> >). Truthfully, many of us have used this "cheapest
> >connector" idea for some years. But, it is more than just cheap as you
> >have pointed
> >out. It is a very small, reliable connection technique and if you
stagger
> >the
> >connection pins a bit, there is no smaller total diameter method that I
> >know of
> >to connect a few wires in line for future easy disconnect.
> >
> >Another advantage is the ease in making the actual connections-one at a
time
> >in free space-not fighting to get to one pin in a nest of several. I
also
> >like "Dean's Connectors" as someone else mentioned. Dean's connectors
are
> >small,
> >light, have very good contact pressures but they are a chore to solder
the
> >wires to if you are our age. (let's just say over 40) The Dean's
connectors
> >also suffer a diameter penalty in areas where that is an issue.
> >
> >Back to D-sub pins again, I have epoxied female pins just inside of small
> >electronic goodies over the years. You drill a hole in the plastic shell
of
> >whatever device and cement the female pin inside. Cables of just a few
> >wires with
> >male pins connected and heat shrunk shielded are "plugged" in. Two holes
in
> >the side of a plastic cased goody backed up with female pins can be
jumpered
> >together with a "U" shaped pin where a function may be "jumpered" "out"
or
> >"in"
> >for different functions.
>
> Just one caution. When examining connectors classically
> used in aircraft, one can see attention paid to protection
> of the pin-socket joints and making sure that tension on
> the wires won't open a joint. Unless you're working with
> butt-splices, knife splices, and soldered joints, etc. where
> resistance to tension are inherent in the technology, make
> sure your quest for miniaturization and/or convenience doesn't
> increased potential for failures that could make you
> uncomfortable. I offered the d-sub pins and heat shrink
> for compact thermocouple splicing . . . but then opening that
> joint in flight doesn't affect flight system performance.
>
> I don't intend to splash cold water on any innovative
> techniques . . . only a word to the wise to think through
> the failure mode effects analysis for any out-of-the-ordinary
> usage of parts. Question: do you KNOW how difficult it is
> to handle the airplane with a pitch trim actuator stuck at
> either extreme? Of course this question goes to reliability
> of ALL components in the pitch trim system, not just novel
> approaches to miniature connectors.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
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