Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:52 AM - Re: Flap Motor (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
2. 03:34 AM - Re: LSE electronic ignition installation (Sam Hoskins)
3. 04:54 AM - Re: ICOM A-22 (Jack Lockamy)
4. 05:04 AM - Headset noise (Scott Hersha)
5. 05:05 AM - Re: LSE electronic ignition installation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 05:08 AM - Re: LSE electronic ignition installation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 05:10 AM - Re: Flap motor overload? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 05:57 AM - Re: SD-8 Overheat Prevention (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 05:57 AM - Re: Microair products (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 06:36 AM - Re: Flap motor overload? (Eric Ruttan)
11. 06:48 AM - George Bass (frequent flyer)
12. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: Flap Motor (flyv35b)
13. 07:02 AM - Re: Flap motor overload? (Steve Thomas)
14. 07:26 AM - Re: Flap motor overload? (Paul Messinger)
15. 08:16 AM - Re: Flap motor overload? (Cy Galley)
16. 08:59 AM - Re: Flap motor overload? (Terry Watson)
17. 09:46 AM - Electric fuel pump circuit ()
18. 10:41 AM - Re: Flap motor overload? (Phil Birkelbach)
19. 10:50 AM - Re: LSE electronic ignition installation (Phil Birkelbach)
20. 11:28 AM - Fw: Transponder arial location (Rick Fogerson)
21. 12:10 PM - Re: LSE electronic ignition installation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 12:21 PM - Re: Headset noise (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 12:58 PM - Re: Dual fuel pumps (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 12:59 PM - Re: Load dump issues (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 02:44 PM - Re: George Bass (Michael Ashura)
26. 04:52 PM - Re: Flap motor overload? (Scott Hersha)
27. 05:04 PM - Re: Flap motor overload? (Scott Hersha)
28. 05:11 PM - Re: Flap motor overload? (Scott Hersha)
29. 05:17 PM - Re: Headset noise (Scott Hersha)
30. 05:47 PM - Re: Load dump issues (George Braly)
31. 06:31 PM - Re: Dual fuel pumps (Dale Martin)
32. 06:50 PM - Re: Flap motor overload? (Benford2@aol.com)
33. 06:51 PM - Re: Dual fuel pumps (FlyinK@efortress.com)
34. 07:20 PM - Re: Load dump issues (Jim Jewell)
35. 07:25 PM - Re: Dual fuel pumps (Jim Jewell)
36. 07:43 PM - Re: Dual fuel pumps (j1j2h3@juno.com)
37. 07:43 PM - Bose Noise Cancelling Headphones (j1j2h3@juno.com)
38. 08:50 PM - Two alternators-using total rated combined output (David Carter)
39. 11:45 PM - Garmin 430 install manual (Jeffrey W. Skiba)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
Mark...
Our RV6a has had a failed flap motor twice in the last 40 hours. Both times,
motor gave hint of trouble with intermittent hesitation, then complete
failure, both times in "up" position, refusing to extend. Fortunately, RV lands
just
fine without flaps, just need a tad more speed. In each case, inspection
revealed "gunk" between brushes and commutator, and upon thorough cleaning, worked
fine.
In your case, I'd sure take a look at those brushes. Clean them up with some
contact cleaner and a Q-Tip.
I've been told by knowledgable Van's employee that full extension at 100 mph
might overload motor, causing this phenom, so currently drop half flaps at
100, rest at 80. We'll see if this improves situation. In researching, found
several instances of same problem on "RV-List". Hope this helps.
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville,OR
In a message dated 2/22/2004 11:57:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
Time: 01:24:02 PM PST US
From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Flap motor overload?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Howdy list!
I've blown the fuse on my flaps when they reach the full up position (Van's
unit in my -6A) twice now in 2 days (5 amp first, tried 7.5 & still blew- yes
wire is fat enough!) and I can't find anything wrong, linkage binding, wires
worn etc. Only thing that is unusual is that the motor seems to be trying
somewhat harder at the fully extended position (flaps up) than it does fully
retracted where it seems to freewheel more easily. Should it be freewheeling
easily
at both ends, and shouldn't 5 amps be plenty of fuse for this? I don't
recall where I got the load value, but it's wired with 18ga.
Thanks!
Mark Phillips -6A N51PW - 37.4 hours in 3 weeks! What an awesome machine!
8-)
Message 2
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| Subject: | LSE electronic ignition installation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@mchsi.com>
I hand prop my Q-200, so loss of voltage will cranking will not be an issue.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Chalmers
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: LSE electronic ignition installation
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Chalmers"
<David@ChalmersFamily.com>
Sam, when I first installed my LSE ignition I wired it to the regular ground
and power bus. I have long #4 cables to the battery and the engine would
crank but wouldn't fire until the start switch was released - it wasn't
getting enough volts. I wired the LSE ground and power directly to the
battery via a fuse and have had no more problems.
Dave Chalmers
Redmond, WA
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Hoskins [mailto:shoskins@mchsi.com]
Subject: AeroElectric-List: LSE electronic ignition installation
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@mchsi.com>
Greetings Bob and all, I have been off this list for several months. I
wanted to stop back to ask a question, and glean other's experience with
installing the LSE ignition.
Klaus says to pull the 14v power supply directly from the battery, run it
through a pullable 5 amp breaker, maybe through a switch, then to the
control box. Likewise, he says to run the ground directly to the battery.
My preference would be to connect the 14v line to my endurance bus,
protected by a 5a fuse. I have a 16 awg fusible link between the battery
and the endurance bus, as well as the essential bus switch.
Likewise, I would like to connect the ground to my firewall bus.
Do any of you have experience with installing the LSE ignition onto the
endurance and ground buses? What was the result?
Thanks!
Sam Hoskins
Q-200 with ~1,350 hrs.
Message 3
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy@att.net>
My experience with ICOM America is that they are pretty easy to deal with and accomodating.
I have two of the panel mount A-200's and an A-22 hand-held.
Why not contact them directly? I dont't have their number handy, but you can find
their phone number on the website. Just do a 'Google' search....
Good luck,
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Hersha" <shersha@fuse.net>
Bob,
I built and installed the noise filter you describe from Radio Shack, except
it came with a 220uf capacitor rather than the 10uf suggested in your plans.
It filtered out all the noise.....even most of the radio volume. With the volume
on max I can barely hear it. If I use a 10uf, will I get my volume back
and still filter out the noise? I had it connected to the power line to my audio
amp and it filtered everything, alternator, strobes, fuel pump, very effectively.
Just turning off my com radio also stops all the noise. Should I try
putting the filter on the radio power line?
Scott Hersha
Message 5
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| Subject: | LSE electronic ignition installation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:55 PM 2/22/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Chalmers"
><David@ChalmersFamily.com>
>
>
>Sam, when I first installed my LSE ignition I wired it to the regular
>ground and power bus. I have long #4 cables to the battery and the engine
>would crank but wouldn't fire until the start switch was released - it
>wasn't getting enough volts. I wired the LSE ground and power directly to
>the battery via a fuse and have had no more problems.
>
>Dave Chalmers
>Redmond, WA
the key word here is "long" . . . when your battery
is someplace other than on the firewall close to the
engine, #2 wire is indicated. Also, do a load test
of the battery to see that it doesn't drop below
9 volts after 15 seconds load at 300A.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: LSE electronic ignition installation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:40 PM 2/22/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@mchsi.com>
>
>Greetings Bob and all, I have been off this list for several months. I
>wanted to stop back to ask a question, and glean other's experience with
>installing the LSE ignition.
>
>
>Klaus says to pull the 14v power supply directly from the battery, run it
>through a pullable 5 amp breaker, maybe through a switch, then to the
>control box. Likewise, he says to run the ground directly to the battery.
>
>
>My preference would be to connect the 14v line to my endurance bus,
>protected by a 5a fuse. I have a 16 awg fusible link between the battery
>and the endurance bus, as well as the essential bus switch.
>
>
>Likewise, I would like to connect the ground to my firewall bus.
This SHOULD work fine. The only thing I would do different
is run the ignition system from 5A fuse on battery bus. You can
have the panel completely dark and still not affect the
engine.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Flap motor overload? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:23 PM 2/22/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
>Howdy list!
>
>I've blown the fuse on my flaps when they reach the full up position (Van's
>unit in my -6A) twice now in 2 days (5 amp first, tried 7.5 & still blew- yes
>wire is fat enough!) and I can't find anything wrong, linkage binding, wires
>worn etc. Only thing that is unusual is that the motor seems to be trying
>somewhat harder at the fully extended position (flaps up) than it does fully
>retracted where it seems to freewheel more easily. Should it be
>freewheeling easily
>at both ends, and shouldn't 5 amps be plenty of fuse for this? I don't
>recall where I got the load value, but it's wired with 18ga.
A motor that draws only 3-5A will draw 10-20A inrush during
startup. It would be very useful to get some current measurements
from your flap system while in flight. When your flyoff is
done and you can carry an assistant, it would be pretty easy
to do and share this data with the list. Post a note when
you're ready and let's talk about the setup. In the mean time
try a 10A fuse.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: SD-8 Overheat Prevention |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:36 PM 2/22/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey"
> <rmickey@ix.netcom.com>
> >
> >I spoke with Tim at B&C for a good period on Friday discussing the potential
> >of the SD-8 regulator overheating when in continuous use over 3 amps. I
> >must say, after being on the RV-List for 9 years and following Bob's "All
> >Electric on a Budget" when building my RV-6A, I was disheartened during the
> >conversation. He said that he was unaware that Bob was recommending this
> >alternator be used as a backup with essential buss loads of 8 amps until
> >fairly recently. After going through all the stages of grieving, I asked
> >what the fix was. Since the PM, SD-8 regulator needs to shed the excess
> >loads via heat, the only fix is to cool it. I went to the local custom
> >computer place and bought a heat sink and cooling fan made by Intel to cool
> >CPU's. I attached this to the top of the regulator via a aluminum strap and
> >JB Weld. It is switched to come on when I turn on the SD-8. I have no way
> >of telling if it going to be a fix or just prolong the fatal event. My hope
> >is that I will only need it for 30 min or so while I get down after a main
> >alternator failure.
> >
> >Ross Mickey
> >N9PT
>
>Something really doesn't add up here. B&C markets this alternator
>and regulator combination as being rated at 8 amps. They don't say
>that there is any time limit for the 8 amp output, nor do they
>specify a lower continuous rating. If this thing is only good for 3
>amps continuous, why are they marketing it as an 8 amp device?
>
>I'm really looking forward to the results of Bob's testing. My
>regulator is bolted to an aluminum airframe, and I'm really hoping
>that will provide enough of a heat sink. I'm going to get some
>little stick-on temperature witness thingies and do a long duration,
>fully loaded test of my SD-8 before I decide I can count on it for my
>IFR backup electrical power.
I agree. I've NOT heard anything about continuous duty
operation limits on the SD-8 before. I know the SD-8 regulator
has been through some evolutionary changes over the years
but Never had the impression that the critter wasn't
good for 8A continuous . . . and in recent years, I was
told that it would deliver 10A at 12.5 (but that wasn't
being offered as an increase in continuous duty rating).
I've not been able to make an accurate deduction of cooling
capability of the stock SD-8 regulator with bench testing.
It's a potted device. I've asked Todd to see if the supplier
will share technical details of the product with me.
In the mean time, I've forwarded a copy of this posting to
Todd and will suggest that they do some testing in-house
on various sizes of heat sink to see what it takes to
"cook" a stock SD-8 regulator. I'd like to participate
in this but right now, I've got too many things on my
plate. None-the-less, this is B&C's product . . . they
should know more about it than anyone else. If they
don't have ready answers to customer questions, it's
their duty to deduce and supply them. The question of
the hour is, "What heat-sinking and/or ambient temperature
limits are recommended for 8 amps or more of continuous
duty output from the SD-8 with it's present regulator?"
In the mean time, if any of you are in a position to
do some constructive experimentation, you might check
with your John Deere dealer about a p/n AM101406
regulator that is cited in this article:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/dynamo.html
In this housing and with the cooling fins, it seems
a much more likely candidate for service at 10 Amps
plus than does the stock B&C regulator. The schematic
in the article suggests that it's a drop-in replacement
for the SD-8 regulator. It's not a bad price at $67.00
either.
It would be valuable information for someone to give
it a try on their existing SD-8 installation and report
back to us with the results.
Last November, David Carter offered this information
to us on the List:
From: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Subject: Re: Future replacement for Rotax
Bob, about testing a John Deere PM alternator and regulator. Here's the
info I've looked up and shared with others. A look at one of these
by you
would be a great thing. I've attached the spreadsheet as a pdf file to
this e-mail - but think attachments get stripped off. So, will copy and
paste here:
Output Alternator Regulator Weight
Amps P/N P/N LBS
20 AM877557 AM101406 4
35 AM877957 AM101406 4? (Same alternator
with internal changes,
uses same regulator)
<snip>
John Deere PM alternator info - researched at Deere dealer by David
Carter
I'd like to use the 35 amp if can keep loads down enough for IFR &
night
Otherwise, I'll probably use the 85 amp - I want a PM alternator. (RV-6
with Mazda rotary engine)
I think it's clear that the 101406 regulator is CONSIDERABLY more robust
than the regulators offered by either B&C for the SD-8 and by Rotax for
the 912/914 engines. Personally, unless there are features of the
AM101406 as yet unrevealed to us, it seems a very attractive alternative.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Microair products |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:12 PM 2/22/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KahnSG@aol.com
>
>Bob:
>
>What is the status of the Microair products?
>Are the comm and the transponder going to be available through you?
>
>Steve
I've discontinued that offering. I'm going to concentrate
on product development that is unique to the AeroElectric Connection.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Flap motor overload? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Ruttan" <ericruttan@chartermi.net>
You may carry a flight engineer during your flyoff.
> >I've blown the fuse on my flaps when they reach the full up position
(Van's
> >unit in my -6A) twice now in 2 days (5 amp first, tried 7.5 & still blew-
yes
<snip>
> A motor that draws only 3-5A will draw 10-20A inrush during
> startup. It would be very useful to get some current measurements
> from your flap system while in flight. When your flyoff is
> done and you can carry an assistant, it would be pretty easy
> to do and share this data with the list. Post a note when
> you're ready and let's talk about the setup. In the mean time
> try a 10A fuse.
>
> Bob . . .
Message 11
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: frequent flyer <jdhcv@yahoo.com>
George, e-mail me off line.
do not archive
__________________________________
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
> Our RV6a has had a failed flap motor twice in the last 40 hours. Both
times,
> motor gave hint of trouble with intermittent hesitation, then complete
> failure, both times in "up" position, refusing to extend. Fortunately, RV
lands just
> fine without flaps, just need a tad more speed. In each case, inspection
> revealed "gunk" between brushes and commutator, and upon thorough
cleaning, worked
> fine.
I don't have an RV but I was talking recently with a couple friends of mine
who do and who have had flap motor problems. It seems that it is due to
brush and commutator contamination from oil or more likely grease that has
"melted" and drained out of the bearing that is above the commutator. I
gather the RV-8 does not have the problem because the motor is mounted
"upside down" or the opposite way and the bearing is beneath the commutator.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jerry2DT@aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Flap Motor
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
> Mark...
>
> Our RV6a has had a failed flap motor twice in the last 40 hours. Both
times,
> motor gave hint of trouble with intermittent hesitation, then complete
> failure, both times in "up" position, refusing to extend. Fortunately, RV
lands just
> fine without flaps, just need a tad more speed. In each case, inspection
> revealed "gunk" between brushes and commutator, and upon thorough
cleaning, worked
> fine.
>
> In your case, I'd sure take a look at those brushes. Clean them up with
some
> contact cleaner and a Q-Tip.
>
> I've been told by knowledgable Van's employee that full extension at 100
mph
> might overload motor, causing this phenom, so currently drop half flaps
at
> 100, rest at 80. We'll see if this improves situation. In researching,
found
> several instances of same problem on "RV-List". Hope this helps.
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Wilsonville,OR
>
> In a message dated 2/22/2004 11:57:06 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
> Time: 01:24:02 PM PST US
> From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Flap motor overload?
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> Howdy list!
>
> I've blown the fuse on my flaps when they reach the full up position
(Van's
> unit in my -6A) twice now in 2 days (5 amp first, tried 7.5 & still blew-
yes
> wire is fat enough!) and I can't find anything wrong, linkage binding,
wires
> worn etc. Only thing that is unusual is that the motor seems to be trying
> somewhat harder at the fully extended position (flaps up) than it does
fully
> retracted where it seems to freewheel more easily. Should it be
freewheeling
> easily
>
> at both ends, and shouldn't 5 amps be plenty of fuse for this? I don't
> recall where I got the load value, but it's wired with 18ga.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mark Phillips -6A N51PW - 37.4 hours in 3 weeks! What an awesome machine!
> 8-)
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Flap motor overload? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Steve Thomas <lists@stevet.net>
Hello Eric,
Monday, February 23, 2004, 6:36:42 AM, you wrote:
ER> You may carry a flight engineer during your flyoff.
What is the definition of a "flight engineer"?
--
Best regards,
Steve
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Flap motor overload? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Ruttan"
<ericruttan@chartermi.net>
>
> You may carry a flight engineer during your flyoff.
NO you can not.
This is a very wide spread opinion that is a misinterpretation of one of the
paragraphs in the regs and is only second, in popularity, allows a flight
instructor during the fly off. Lots of wishful thinking that is completely
incorrect.
I attended the Washington Aviation Conference on Feb 21, 2004. I personally
discussed this subject with the FAA reps and they said absolutely not
allowed.
I also discussed it with my Insurance Broker and he said the owners and acft
insurance would also be voided.
The above was the result of a heated debate in the local EAA chapter as both
reasons were being used by several members to justify 2 in the cockpit
during the 40 hours.
Bob's right on this.
Paul
EAA Tech Coun, Flight Advsor
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Flap motor overload? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Having a second person in the cockpit is strictly prohibited by FARs for our
amateur Built planes. Could generate a lot of problems both with the FAA and
the insurance company.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Ruttan" <ericruttan@chartermi.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Flap motor overload?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Ruttan"
<ericruttan@chartermi.net>
>
> You may carry a flight engineer during your flyoff.
>
> > >I've blown the fuse on my flaps when they reach the full up position
> (Van's
> > >unit in my -6A) twice now in 2 days (5 amp first, tried 7.5 & still
blew-
> yes
> <snip>
> > A motor that draws only 3-5A will draw 10-20A inrush during
> > startup. It would be very useful to get some current measurements
> > from your flap system while in flight. When your flyoff is
> > done and you can carry an assistant, it would be pretty easy
> > to do and share this data with the list. Post a note when
> > you're ready and let's talk about the setup. In the mean time
> > try a 10A fuse.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Flap motor overload? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Here's what Advisory Circular 20-27F, Certification and Operation of Amateur
Built Aircraft says about it taking someone along during the flight test
period:
13. PHASE 1 FLIGHT TESTING.
e. Restrictions
(1) Carrying Passengers. You may not carry passengers while you are
restricted to the flight test area or during any portion of your Phase I
flight test program. We suggest you use a tape or video recorder for
recording readings and other similar tasks. If you need an additional
crewmember for a particular flight test, specify that in your application
program letter for the airworthiness certificate. We will list this need in
your operating limitations.
(2) Flight Instruction. You may not receive flight instruction during your
flight test.
Terry
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Ruttan"
<ericruttan@chartermi.net>
You may carry a flight engineer during your flyoff.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Electric fuel pump circuit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Bob & Listers,
I am currently modifying your Z-11 drawing for my specific RV-8A. I recall that
you recently recommended the use of relays for circuits drawing over 5 amps.
My Airflow Performance electric fuel pump draws about 5 - 6 amps in rush. Once
running, it draws 3.5 to 4 amps. Do I need a relay on this circuit? Would you
recommend installing this circuit on the main, endurance or battery bus? I have
an engine with 1 magneto and 1 Jeff Rose electronic ignition.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A wiring
Boca Raton, Fl.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Flap motor overload? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
That motor is only supposed to pull 3A with a 100lb load on it. When moving
the flaps on my 7 it pulls less than 1A (no flying loads yet). Make sure
that your are not stalling the motor. It should start freewheeling just as
the flaps tuck up under the wing. You may need to readjust your pushrods.
Oh and congrats on getting your bird flying.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Baffles / Cowling
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw@aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Flap motor overload?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> Howdy list!
>
> I've blown the fuse on my flaps when they reach the full up position
(Van's
> unit in my -6A) twice now in 2 days (5 amp first, tried 7.5 & still blew-
yes
> wire is fat enough!) and I can't find anything wrong, linkage binding,
wires
> worn etc. Only thing that is unusual is that the motor seems to be trying
> somewhat harder at the fully extended position (flaps up) than it does
fully
> retracted where it seems to freewheel more easily. Should it be
freewheeling easily
> at both ends, and shouldn't 5 amps be plenty of fuse for this? I don't
> recall where I got the load value, but it's wired with 18ga.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mark Phillips -6A N51PW - 37.4 hours in 3 weeks! What an awesome machine!
> 8-)
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: LSE electronic ignition installation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
It depends on where you take the power off for the main buss. The current
in the Big wire from the battery is very high during starting. The further
downstream on that Big wire that you take the main buss feed, the lower the
voltage will be. I suspect from his post that he has a battery located far
from the starter and probably has his main buss tied into the battery
contactor that may have several feet of Big wire between it and the battery.
If your's looks like mine and there is only a few inches of 2AWG wire beween
the + post of the battery and the batt side of the master contactor then you
probably don't have to worry about it. That being said I intend to feed my
LSE from the battery buss, and my battery buss is fed straight from the
battery post.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Baffles / Cowling
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hi There" <rv90619@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: LSE electronic ignition installation
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hi There <rv90619@yahoo.com>
>
> I was thinking of wiring my LSE the same way Sam was going to. I'm
surprised that the voltage from the buss is less than the battery. Why is
this? I went throught the voltage loss calcs and don't see where the volts
are going. It seems that running the power off of the battery buss and
running a seperate wire is basically the same thing. My battery is very
close to the battery bus, I have an RV, so the wires are very short. What
am I missing???
>
> Cam
>
>
> David Chalmers <David@ChalmersFamily.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Chalmers"
>
>
> Sam, when I first installed my LSE ignition I wired it to the regular
ground and power bus. I have long #4 cables to the battery and the engine
would crank but wouldn't fire until the start switch was released - it
wasn't getting enough volts. I wired the LSE ground and power directly to
the battery via a fuse and have had no more problems.
>
> Dave Chalmers
> Redmond, WA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Hoskins [mailto:shoskins@mchsi.com]
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: LSE electronic ignition installation
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins"
>
> Greetings Bob and all, I have been off this list for several months. I
> wanted to stop back to ask a question, and glean other's experience with
> installing the LSE ignition.
>
>
> Klaus says to pull the 14v power supply directly from the battery, run it
> through a pullable 5 amp breaker, maybe through a switch, then to the
> control box. Likewise, he says to run the ground directly to the battery.
>
>
> My preference would be to connect the 14v line to my endurance bus,
> protected by a 5a fuse. I have a 16 awg fusible link between the battery
> and the endurance bus, as well as the essential bus switch.
>
>
> Likewise, I would like to connect the ground to my firewall bus.
>
>
> Do any of you have experience with installing the LSE ignition onto the
> endurance and ground buses? What was the result?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Sam Hoskins
>
> Q-200 with ~1,350 hrs.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Fw: Transponder arial location |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf@cableone.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Fogerson
Subject: Transponder arial location
Hi Bob,
I've got a xpdr arial question for you. I have installed that little 3 inch long
arial with a ball (B&C) on the belly just aft of the firewall and between the
exhaust pipes. The arial would be shielded some in the forward direction by
the portion of the lower cowl where cooling air exits and the exhaust pipes
emerge from the engine compartment. The lower part of the cowl is about even
with the arial ball. That wasn't a problem when I was going to install the standard
frp cowl but now I thinking of trying to build an aluminum cowl. How much
of a problem do you think this would be?
Thanks,
Rick Fogerson
RV3
Boise, ID
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: LSE electronic ignition installation |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:50 PM 2/23/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach"
><phil@petrasoft.net>
>
>It depends on where you take the power off for the main buss. The current
>in the Big wire from the battery is very high during starting. The further
>downstream on that Big wire that you take the main buss feed, the lower the
>voltage will be. I suspect from his post that he has a battery located far
>from the starter and probably has his main buss tied into the battery
>contactor that may have several feet of Big wire between it and the battery.
>
>If your's looks like mine and there is only a few inches of 2AWG wire beween
>the + post of the battery and the batt side of the master contactor then you
>probably don't have to worry about it. That being said I intend to feed my
>LSE from the battery buss, and my battery buss is fed straight from the
>battery post.
that's the way to do it!
Bob . . .
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Headset noise |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:04 AM 2/23/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Hersha" <shersha@fuse.net>
>
>Bob,
> I built and installed the noise filter you describe from Radio Shack,
> except it came with a 220uf capacitor rather than the 10uf suggested in
> your plans.
The 10uf is what used to come with it. Pleased to see something
bigger being supplied now.
> It filtered out all the noise.....even most of the radio volume. With
> the volume on max I can barely hear it. If I use a 10uf, will I get my
> volume back and still filter out the noise?
The filter is intended for use only in the power supply
lead . . . it should have nothing to do with the intensity
of desired signals. Sounds like you've wired it into one
of your audio leads instead of the power lead.
> I had it connected to the power line to my audio amp and it filtered
> everything, alternator, strobes, fuel pump, very effectively. Just
> turning off my com radio also stops all the noise. Should I try putting
> the filter on the radio power line?
That's a reasonable thing to try.
Bob . . .
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Dual fuel pumps |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>Mark: Assuming that you will be flying a low-wing (i.e.: NOT gravity-fed
>fuel) I personally would not fly with you in a plane like that. You would
>obviously have these two Facet pumps on completely different electrical
>systems - but you may end up having your face stuck in the cockpit looking
>for switches while your plane staggers to hold itself above stall on a short
>field take-off. Sounds like a statistic. You can make it work - but not
>simply. Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. If you have the option
>of using an engine-driven fuel pump (e.g.: Lyc. or Continental) I would use
>it - backed up by a Facet electrical pump for take-off and landings. I can
>also provide back-up with my solenoid Primer for manually supplying three
>cylinders, in an emergency.
This sounds like you believe that an engine driven fuel pump
(cam operated, center-flexed diaphragm with hot engine oil
on one side and hydrocarbon-solvent (fuel) on the other all
of which is subject to the vibration and temperature variables
of being bolted to the engine) is somehow more reliable than an
electrically driven fuel pump with one moving part that
is not a diaphragm.
There are lots of electrically dependent engines flying as well
as driving. Lost the single fuel pump in my van a few weeks ago
and had to have the car towed for repairs in a shop 150 miles from
home. Over the years I've also had diaphragms go south on two engine
driven fuel pumps with similar show-stopping results. I'm not sure
I'm prepared to say that one pump is x-times better or worse than
another pump . . . fact is, either one can and will fail. This
is just the fuel delivery side . . . one could have dual electronic
ignition systems as well. There's nothing magic about the engine
driven fuel pump as a means for warding off evil spirits
that strangle engines.
The solution is failure tolerance. Design so that no single failure
brings down the house. A few years ago, a Long-Ez builder and I
concocted this all-electric fuel system with no valves (and no
fuel plumbing in the cockpit).
http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/All-Elect-Fuel.jpg
Combining this plumbing architecture with a reliable
power supply (ND alternator combined with less than
year-old battery works) provides a level of reliability
(few fittings to leak; no valves to jam) that is hard
to equal much less beat in any certified configuration
I'm aware of.
His airplane had sight gages that let him manage fuel
transfer. In an RV I think I'd install a photo optical
level sensor in the right tank to light a light
when the tank was down to 1/3rd and a second to show
2/3rds. When the right side light came on at 1/3, I'd
turn on the transfer pump to get the 2/3rds light
to come back on. After the second transfer, I'd
leave the left tank at 1/3 for duration of flight
or until it was absolutely needed for approach to
landing.
By setting the needle valve in the 4-port primer
system to deliver fuel flow of 60-65% power, you have
a completely independent means by which you stay airborne
after suffering any number of failures in the main fuel
delivery system.
A couple of years later, John D hit the water after
discovering an unanticipated shortcoming in the airplane's
fuel system design. Three switches an a couple of lights
on the panel sure would have been nice.
The Facet pumps, unlike their Bendix thump-thump ancestors
are all solid state for controlling solenoid current
and have very simple mechanical designs. Further, when
they do quit, they don't provide an open hole by which you
fill your crankcase with fuel. This system was used to augment
an engine driven fuel pump, hence the label "Fuel Boost"
on the pump to the carburetor. Should I sense loss of the
engine driven pump, I think I would opt to descend on the
primer-port system to avoid the possibility of diluting the
oil and/or overflowing the crankcase with fuel. I think there's
reason to belive this system would perform as well or better
with no engine driven fuel pump at all.
Bob . . .
Message 24
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| Subject: | Load dump issues |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:51 AM 2/14/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Braly <gwbraly@gami.com>
>
>
>Bob,
>
>I have done a fair amount of testing a couple of years ago, working with the
>TVS devices, including the larger sized versions.
>
>In my experience, they have not been adequate, alone, to prevent over
>voltage spikes on load dumps, even from smaller alternators.
>
>They help. But I have blown some of them on load dumps.
Have you taken any energy measurements on the load (battery)-dump
phenomenon?
Bob . . .
Message 25
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|
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michael Ashura" <ashuramj@hotmail.com>
Hi Jack
For some reason, I always get a copy of your emails to the aeroelectric list.
How is your Glasair going? I'm getting ready to order an RV-7A empennage kit, I
just keep coming back to it, seems to make the most sense.Take care
Mike
From: frequent flyer <JDHCV@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: George Bass
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: frequent flyer <JDHCV@YAHOO.COM>
George, e-mail me off line.
do not archive
__________________________________
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Flap motor overload? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Hersha" <shersha@fuse.net>
I guess it depends on your local FSDO. Mine says that you can carry someone
with you if that person is required as a part a the phase I flight test.
For example, you need someone to record flight test data that you are unable
to record because of workload requirements while flying a particular
maneuver, or you need someone to look out for traffic while you are
simulating (hood) IFR flight while certifying the installation of an IFR
panel. Read the regulation. It's not open to interpretation and it's
fairly clearcut.
Scott Hersha
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Flap motor overload?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger"
<paulm@olypen.com>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Ruttan"
> <ericruttan@chartermi.net>
> >
> > You may carry a flight engineer during your flyoff.
>
>
> NO you can not.
>
> This is a very wide spread opinion that is a misinterpretation of one of
the
> paragraphs in the regs and is only second, in popularity, allows a flight
> instructor during the fly off. Lots of wishful thinking that is completely
> incorrect.
>
> I attended the Washington Aviation Conference on Feb 21, 2004. I
personally
> discussed this subject with the FAA reps and they said absolutely not
> allowed.
>
> I also discussed it with my Insurance Broker and he said the owners and
acft
> insurance would also be voided.
>
> The above was the result of a heated debate in the local EAA chapter as
both
> reasons were being used by several members to justify 2 in the cockpit
> during the 40 hours.
>
> Bob's right on this.
>
> Paul
> EAA Tech Coun, Flight Advsor
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Flap motor overload? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Hersha" <shersha@fuse.net>
If your insurance company will cover you to fly your first flight, then they
should cover you when you need a second person to validate, record, or
whatever phase I flight test. That other person doesn't have to be a pilot,
in fact, that other person cannot function as a pilot on any phase I flight
test flight. He/she is only there to record data or perform some other
required function(look out for traffic while you are under the hood) that is
required for you to perform while conducting your phase I flight test. That
person cannot give instruction. If you need instruction, it has to be
accomplished under part 91 and part 61 either in a certified airplane, or an
experimental airplane operating in phase II, but not for hire. The FAA will
not allow you to give rides in phase I, however, if for safety reasons, you
need a second person for the above mentioned reasons, it is permitted under
the regulations.
Scott Hersha
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Flap motor overload?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Having a second person in the cockpit is strictly prohibited by FARs for
our
> amateur Built planes. Could generate a lot of problems both with the FAA
and
> the insurance company.
>
> Cy Galley
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eric Ruttan" <ericruttan@chartermi.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Flap motor overload?
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Ruttan"
> <ericruttan@chartermi.net>
> >
> > You may carry a flight engineer during your flyoff.
> >
> > > >I've blown the fuse on my flaps when they reach the full up position
> > (Van's
> > > >unit in my -6A) twice now in 2 days (5 amp first, tried 7.5 & still
> blew-
> > yes
> > <snip>
> > > A motor that draws only 3-5A will draw 10-20A inrush during
> > > startup. It would be very useful to get some current measurements
> > > from your flap system while in flight. When your flyoff is
> > > done and you can carry an assistant, it would be pretty easy
> > > to do and share this data with the list. Post a note when
> > > you're ready and let's talk about the setup. In the mean time
> > > try a 10A fuse.
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> >
> >
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Flap motor overload? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Hersha" <shersha@fuse.net>
My operating limitations did not list anybody specifically for my phase I
flight test. However, I was allowed to carry someone if required as a part
of my phase I flight test, not a passenger, as long as that person was
necessary for the testing being done.
Scott Hersha
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Flap motor overload?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson"
<terry@tcwatson.com>
>
> Here's what Advisory Circular 20-27F, Certification and Operation of
Amateur
> Built Aircraft says about it taking someone along during the flight test
> period:
>
> 13. PHASE 1 FLIGHT TESTING.
> e. Restrictions
> (1) Carrying Passengers. You may not carry passengers while you are
> restricted to the flight test area or during any portion of your Phase I
> flight test program. We suggest you use a tape or video recorder for
> recording readings and other similar tasks. If you need an additional
> crewmember for a particular flight test, specify that in your application
> program letter for the airworthiness certificate. We will list this need
in
> your operating limitations.
> (2) Flight Instruction. You may not receive flight instruction during
your
> flight test.
>
> Terry
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Ruttan"
> <ericruttan@chartermi.net>
>
> You may carry a flight engineer during your flyoff.
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Headset noise |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Hersha" <shersha@fuse.net>
Bob,
I connected the filter between the bus and the power lead to my #1 COM
and it worked like a charm. This was a new filter with a 10uf capacitor. I
also wired the other filter I made with the 220uf capacitor the same way to
my #2 COM. It works just as well as #1. I can't tell any difference. I
now have a quiet, clear headset with no noise...Yea!!!
Scott Hersha
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Headset noise
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 08:04 AM 2/23/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Hersha"
<shersha@fuse.net>
> >
> >Bob,
> > I built and installed the noise filter you describe from Radio
Shack,
> > except it came with a 220uf capacitor rather than the 10uf suggested in
> > your plans.
>
> The 10uf is what used to come with it. Pleased to see something
> bigger being supplied now.
>
>
> > It filtered out all the noise.....even most of the radio volume. With
> > the volume on max I can barely hear it. If I use a 10uf, will I get my
> > volume back and still filter out the noise?
>
> The filter is intended for use only in the power supply
> lead . . . it should have nothing to do with the intensity
> of desired signals. Sounds like you've wired it into one
> of your audio leads instead of the power lead.
>
> > I had it connected to the power line to my audio amp and it filtered
> > everything, alternator, strobes, fuel pump, very effectively. Just
> > turning off my com radio also stops all the noise. Should I try putting
> > the filter on the radio power line?
>
> That's a reasonable thing to try.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Load dump issues |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "George Braly" <gwbraly@gami.com>
IA0KDQpCb2IsICBJIGhhdmUgbm90IHRyaWVkIHRvIG1lYXN1cmUgdGhlIGVuZXJneSBpbiB0aGUg
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b3JzLg0KPg0KPlRoZXkgaGVscC4gIEJ1dCBJIGhhdmUgYmxvd24gc29tZSBvZiB0aGVtIG9uIGxv
YWQgZHVtcHMuDQoNCiAgIEhhdmUgeW91IHRha2VuIGFueSBlbmVyZ3kgbWVhc3VyZW1lbnRzIG9u
IHRoZSBsb2FkIChiYXR0ZXJ5KS1kdW1wDQogICBwaGVub21lbm9uPw0KDQogICBCb2IgLiAuIC4N
Cg0KDQo
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Dual fuel pumps |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dale Martin" <niceez@cableone.net>
For the record a mechanical fuel pump on an airplane has two diaphragms and
if the fuel side diaphragm ruptures it pumps fuel out of a vent that should
be vented overboard. I am not certain every aircraft engine has a pump with
this feature but they do have dual diaphragms specifically so they will not
fill the engine block with fuel.
Engine driven pumps do fail but usually only because they are used beyond
there normal service life that being 3000 hours. Seems that I had an
in-tank electric fuel pump fail on two cars before 105,000 miles which is
roughly equal to 2100 hours. The problem with electric fuel pumps in cars
is the fuel contamination from the everyday pump gas. Much more so then
aviation fuel. The electric pump has a sock filter and when it gets dirty
it causes the pump to continually work harder until it fails. I have
consider doing the submerged pump in each tank or making a central sump with
easy access for maintenance because pushing fuel eliminates most vapor lock
stories.
Two electric pumps may be a good way to go but it is hard to beat a pump
that does not rely on electric power. Redundancy speaks loudly to this
airman.
Dale Martin
Lewiston, ID
LEZ-235
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual fuel pumps
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>
> >Mark: Assuming that you will be flying a low-wing (i.e.: NOT gravity-fed
> >fuel) I personally would not fly with you in a plane like that. You
would
> >obviously have these two Facet pumps on completely different electrical
> >systems - but you may end up having your face stuck in the cockpit
looking
> >for switches while your plane staggers to hold itself above stall on a
short
> >field take-off. Sounds like a statistic. You can make it work - but not
> >simply. Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. If you have the
option
> >of using an engine-driven fuel pump (e.g.: Lyc. or Continental) I would
use
> >it - backed up by a Facet electrical pump for take-off and landings. I
can
> >also provide back-up with my solenoid Primer for manually supplying three
> >cylinders, in an emergency.
>
> This sounds like you believe that an engine driven fuel pump
> (cam operated, center-flexed diaphragm with hot engine oil
> on one side and hydrocarbon-solvent (fuel) on the other all
> of which is subject to the vibration and temperature variables
> of being bolted to the engine) is somehow more reliable than an
> electrically driven fuel pump with one moving part that
> is not a diaphragm.
>
> There are lots of electrically dependent engines flying as well
> as driving. Lost the single fuel pump in my van a few weeks ago
> and had to have the car towed for repairs in a shop 150 miles from
> home. Over the years I've also had diaphragms go south on two engine
> driven fuel pumps with similar show-stopping results. I'm not sure
> I'm prepared to say that one pump is x-times better or worse than
> another pump . . . fact is, either one can and will fail. This
> is just the fuel delivery side . . . one could have dual electronic
> ignition systems as well. There's nothing magic about the engine
> driven fuel pump as a means for warding off evil spirits
> that strangle engines.
>
> The solution is failure tolerance. Design so that no single failure
> brings down the house. A few years ago, a Long-Ez builder and I
> concocted this all-electric fuel system with no valves (and no
> fuel plumbing in the cockpit).
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/All-Elect-Fuel.jpg
>
> Combining this plumbing architecture with a reliable
> power supply (ND alternator combined with less than
> year-old battery works) provides a level of reliability
> (few fittings to leak; no valves to jam) that is hard
> to equal much less beat in any certified configuration
> I'm aware of.
>
> His airplane had sight gages that let him manage fuel
> transfer. In an RV I think I'd install a photo optical
> level sensor in the right tank to light a light
> when the tank was down to 1/3rd and a second to show
> 2/3rds. When the right side light came on at 1/3, I'd
> turn on the transfer pump to get the 2/3rds light
> to come back on. After the second transfer, I'd
> leave the left tank at 1/3 for duration of flight
> or until it was absolutely needed for approach to
> landing.
>
> By setting the needle valve in the 4-port primer
> system to deliver fuel flow of 60-65% power, you have
> a completely independent means by which you stay airborne
> after suffering any number of failures in the main fuel
> delivery system.
>
> A couple of years later, John D hit the water after
> discovering an unanticipated shortcoming in the airplane's
> fuel system design. Three switches an a couple of lights
> on the panel sure would have been nice.
>
> The Facet pumps, unlike their Bendix thump-thump ancestors
> are all solid state for controlling solenoid current
> and have very simple mechanical designs. Further, when
> they do quit, they don't provide an open hole by which you
> fill your crankcase with fuel. This system was used to augment
> an engine driven fuel pump, hence the label "Fuel Boost"
> on the pump to the carburetor. Should I sense loss of the
> engine driven pump, I think I would opt to descend on the
> primer-port system to avoid the possibility of diluting the
> oil and/or overflowing the crankcase with fuel. I think there's
> reason to belive this system would perform as well or better
> with no engine driven fuel pump at all.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Flap motor overload? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 2/23/2004 9:18:07 AM Mountain Standard Time,
cgalley@qcbc.org writes:
>
> Having a second person in the cockpit is strictly prohibited by FARs for our
> amateur Built planes. Could generate a lot of problems both with the FAA and
> the insurance company.
>
> Cy Galley
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org
>
>
Some of these homebuilts get kinda complex and a second person would be a
safety factor. Tell me, What does Boeing do on their first flights of new and
unproven designs??? Is there just one pilot??? After all they all start life as
a
homebuilt...
Ben Haas N801BH.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Dual fuel pumps |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FlyinK@Efortress.com
That's the way mine works and it seems to be fine so far - 2 bats, 2 elec igs,
2 elec
fuel pumps. The pumps are facet 40106's in parallel - if they are in series the
pressure will add (8-12psi) and in parallel, the built-in check valve allows one
or the
other to work (4-6 psi). 40108's have no check valve and the pressure can get
slightly higher. For bings, I needed 1-5 psi or they can overflow so be aware
of
pressure required and which facet pumps. Management is simple - the main ig & fp
are on the starter switch and the aux systems are checked in preflight and left
on for
takeoff/landing. I shut the aux switches off in cruise - if things get quiet,
the first thing
I would do is flip on aux ig. For starting, I flip the main and turn the key,
very simple
(don't tell Bob I'm using a key instead of a push button).
Gary
Pelican PL w/Stratus subaru
25 hours, Newport, RI.
On 22 Feb 2004 at 16:27, Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> Howdy agin'!
>
> Hypothetical question for y'all:
>
> Many planes are flying with dual electronic ignitions wired from the batt.
> bus- Anyone see anything wrong with 2 electric pumps, properly plumbed & valved
> to allow an engine originally in a high wing (no engine-driven pump) to be
> used in a low wing?
>
> Or is anyone already doing this?
>
> Thanks & do not archive
>
> Mark
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Load dump issues |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Just a little tounge tied are we George??!!
Jim in Kelowna do not archive {[;-)!
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Braly" <gwbraly@gami.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Load dump issues
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "George Braly" <gwbraly@gami.com>
>
>
IA0KDQpCb2IsICBJIGhhdmUgbm90IHRyaWVkIHRvIG1lYXN1cmUgdGhlIGVuZXJneSBpbiB0aGUg
>
bG9hZCBkdW1wIGV2ZW50LiAgV2hlbiBJIHN0YXJ0ZWQgb2JzZXJ2aW5nIHNvbWUgY29tcG9uZW50
>
IGRhbWFnZSwgSSBzdGFydGVkIHRvIHRyeSB0byBjb250cm9sIGl0LiAgICBUaGlzIHdhcyB3aXRo
>
IGFuIGFsdGVybmF0b3IgcHVsbGluZyBhYm91dCAzNSB0byA0MCBhbXBzLg0KDQpJIHRyaWVkIHRo
>
ZSBlYXN5IHN0dWZmIGZpcnN0LCAgYW5kIHRoZSA1S1dhdHQgVFZTIGRldmljZSB3YXMgbXkgc2Vj
>
b25kIGVmZm9ydCBhZnRlciB0aGUgMS41Sy4NCg0KUmVnYXJkcywgIEdlb3JnZQ0KDQogDQoNCg0K
>
DQpBdCAxMDo1MSBBTSAyLzE0LzIwMDQgLTA2MDAsIHlvdSB3cm90ZToNCj4tLT4gQWVyb0VsZWN0
>
cmljLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6IEdlb3JnZSBCcmFseSA8Z3dicmFseUBnYW1pLmNv
>
bT4NCj4NCj4NCj5Cb2IsDQo+DQo+SSBoYXZlIGRvbmUgYSBmYWlyIGFtb3VudCBvZiB0ZXN0aW5n
>
IGEgY291cGxlIG9mIHllYXJzIGFnbywgd29ya2luZyB3aXRoIHRoZQ0KPlRWUyBkZXZpY2VzLCAg
>
aW5jbHVkaW5nICB0aGUgbGFyZ2VyIHNpemVkIHZlcnNpb25zLg0KPg0KPkluIG15IGV4cGVyaWVu
>
Y2UsIHRoZXkgaGF2ZSBub3QgYmVlbiBhZGVxdWF0ZSwgYWxvbmUsIHRvIHByZXZlbnQgb3Zlcg0K
>
PnZvbHRhZ2Ugc3Bpa2VzIG9uIGxvYWQgZHVtcHMsIGV2ZW4gZnJvbSBzbWFsbGVyIGFsdGVybmF0
>
b3JzLg0KPg0KPlRoZXkgaGVscC4gIEJ1dCBJIGhhdmUgYmxvd24gc29tZSBvZiB0aGVtIG9uIGxv
>
YWQgZHVtcHMuDQoNCiAgIEhhdmUgeW91IHRha2VuIGFueSBlbmVyZ3kgbWVhc3VyZW1lbnRzIG9u
>
IHRoZSBsb2FkIChiYXR0ZXJ5KS1kdW1wDQogICBwaGVub21lbm9uPw0KDQogICBCb2IgLiAuIC4N
> Cg0KDQo
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Dual fuel pumps |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
HEY BOB!, GARY IS USING A KEY SWITCH FOR STARTING!!!!
Jim in Kelowna DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: <FlyinK@efortress.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual fuel pumps
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FlyinK@Efortress.com
>
> That's the way mine works and it seems to be fine so far - 2 bats, 2 elec
igs, 2 elec
> fuel pumps. The pumps are facet 40106's in parallel - if they are in
series the
> pressure will add (8-12psi) and in parallel, the built-in check valve
allows one or the
> other to work (4-6 psi). 40108's have no check valve and the pressure can
get
> slightly higher. For bings, I needed 1-5 psi or they can overflow so be
aware of
> pressure required and which facet pumps. Management is simple - the main
ig & fp
> are on the starter switch and the aux systems are checked in preflight and
left on for
> takeoff/landing. I shut the aux switches off in cruise - if things get
quiet, the first thing
> I would do is flip on aux ig. For starting, I flip the main and turn the
key, very simple
> (don't tell Bob I'm using a key instead of a push button).
>
> Gary
> Pelican PL w/Stratus subaru
> 25 hours, Newport, RI.
>
> On 22 Feb 2004 at 16:27, Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote:
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> >
> > Howdy agin'!
> >
> > Hypothetical question for y'all:
> >
> > Many planes are flying with dual electronic ignitions wired from the
batt.
> > bus- Anyone see anything wrong with 2 electric pumps, properly plumbed &
valved
> > to allow an engine originally in a high wing (no engine-driven pump) to
be
> > used in a low wing?
> >
> > Or is anyone already doing this?
> >
> > Thanks & do not archive
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Dual fuel pumps |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
Mark
Will a working pump push AND suck fuel through a failed pump? If so,
then your plan should work. If not, I would connect them in parallel
rather than series. Then turn them both on for takeoff, so that you
won't have to look for a switch if one fails. This is what you would do
in a Piper that has the engine driven pump and an auxiliary electric
pump.
If the fuel would flow backward but not forward through a failed pump,
then you will need to put them in parallel with check valves to prevent
the flow from short-circuiting. I would avoid manual valves because of
the work load during an emergency.
The easiest thing to do might be to just add an engine-driven pump, if
this is possible.
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin,
Tennessee)
Do not archive
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dual fuel pumps
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 2/22/04 3:32:18 PM Central Standard Time,
Fiveonepw@aol.com writes:
> Anyone see anything wrong with 2 electric pumps, properly plumbed &
valved
>
And I'll add probably just plumbed in series for simplicity, perhaps just
a
couple of Facets connected together...
Message 37
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| Subject: | Bose Noise Cancelling Headphones |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
Bob
I received a pair of Bose noise cancelling headphones as a gift. These
are for home or airline audio systems. Is there any way to adapt them
for use with an aircraft com radio (I understand the aircraft com radios
use a different impedance for their headphones)?
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin,
Tennessee)
Do not archive
Message 38
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| Subject: | Two alternators-using total rated combined output |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Bob, going way back to last August - you suggested it was "not simple" and
"probably not cost effective" to install, for example, 2ea 20 amp
alternators and plan on loading them up for near 40 amps steady load - that
"balancing" and not "causing 1 to produce output over its rated value" was a
big deal. (I'm paraphrasing & summarizing from the e-mail which is quoted
below this.)
I was just thinking today of installing two John Deere PM 20 amp
alternators, using 2 different belts, so as to have a more fault tolerant
system requiring 32 to 35 amp steady load, total. I have roughly analyzed
my night/IFR system to be running about 32 amps, steady, under heaviest
loads.
Without asking you to design the system for me - I respect the work load you
already have - could you give a quick tutorial to guide me thru the design
and test of such a system? (or persuade me it's too hard to do with my lack
of knowledge and test equip)?
Sounds like 1) the "magic" has to be in the "voltage regulator(s)", not just
how the system is wired up; and 2) the most serious problem is 1 "20 amp
RATED alternator" actually having the ability to put out much more, but at
the expense of running over its "rating" and thus overheating and suffering
a "stress" it was not designed for - probably the same for the REGULATOR
that is also rated for 20 amps.
- What is the "simplest" way to a) have the two identical regulators
and alternators each share roughly 1/2 of the load, whatever it is, or, b)
allow 1 alternator to go up to its rated output and then have any subsequent
increase in load be picked up by the other alternator? Are there other
"approaches" to this?
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Alternator
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 04:59 PM 8/9/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson"
<terry@tcwatson.com>
> >
> >Tom,
> >
> >This is an answer Bob gave just a few days ago:
> >
> >That is exactly what happens in certified ships. Figure Z-12
> > is not recommended for new design. It's an easy fix to add a
> > second alternator to an existing airplane. This this case, both
> > alternators are ON but the aux alternator regulator is set
> > for about 1 volt below normal bus voltage. Soooo . . . with
> > the main alternator working, the aux alternator relaxes.
> >
> > If the main alternator quits, the bus voltage sags, the
> > aux alternator comes alive automatically. The SB-1 reglator
> > is fitted with a circuit to illuminate an "AUX ALT LOADED"
> > warning light and flash it if the aux alternator output
> > is higher than 20A . . . reduce load until light stops
> > flashing.
> >
> >
> >Terry
> >
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tom Reading"
> ><treading@comcast.net>
> >
> > I've been trying to understand what would happen if both BC 40amp and
BC20
> >amp where on at the same time. Would this give you 60 amp capicity or
would
> >one sleep because the alt 's set point are not ever precisely the same.
> > Thanks Tom Reading RV7 wiring
>
> When you parallel alternators with an intent to load them
> simultaneously, getting them to share total load is
> possible but not trivial and, in my not so humble opinion,
> not cost effective.
>
> I would resist the notion that by having both a 40A
> and 20A alternator tied together that one has a 60A
> total capacity. This is strictly true only in a case of
> regulators designed to distribute load properly between
> two alternators.
>
> One might argue that should one alternator become
> overloaded, it's output sags so that the remaining
> alternator will pick up the difference thus making
> the 40+20=60 anyhow. True . . . as long as the current
> limit on both alternators is imposed by magnetic limits
> of the respective machines. For example, the SD-20 as
> installed in the Bonanza is rated at 20A . . . but being
> a 40A machine at heart, it WILL put out more if you
> load it up. However, COOLING is limited in this
> installation and operation above the 20A rating will
> put it at risk of letting all its smoke out.
>
> I've encountered VERY few cases where it made sense
> to add capacity of two alternators to justify
> loading a system to a value greater than either
> alternator will support. If you think you really need
> to do this, let's discuss the finer details and
> make sure you're not going to be disappointed.
>
> Further, be aware that to do it right suggests
> a regulator designed to truly parallel two
> machines. The Cessna 303 is the only airplane I
> am familiar with that had that capability. Lost
> the contract on that regulator system by less than
> $10 a regulator . . . the one they ended up with
> didn't work very well.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Garmin 430 install manual |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba@icosa.net>
I seem to remember that there was somewhere to download the install manual
for garmin products in particular the 430? But I can not find it on there
site, Anybody know where I can download this ??
Thanks
Jeff.
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