Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:02 AM - Re: 912s Capacitor (Dabusmith@aol.com)
2. 05:05 AM - Re: Re: Battery dumps (George Braly)
3. 05:42 AM - ?punch for Carling? (Troy Scott)
4. 05:43 AM - Re: Runaway stab trim prevention (Cy Galley)
5. 05:50 AM - Securing d-subs (Larry Bowen)
6. 06:17 AM - Re: Runaway stab trim prevention (Darwin N. Barrie)
7. 06:19 AM - Re: Dynon Remote Compass mounting? (Jim Stone)
8. 06:29 AM - Toggle Switches (Vincent Welch)
9. 06:46 AM - Re: Toggle Switches (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 06:48 AM - Re: Dynon Remote Compass mounting? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 06:52 AM - Re: Falcon Turn Coordinator (Lowell Fitt)
12. 06:52 AM - Re: Securing d-subs (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 06:53 AM - Re: ?punch for Carling? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: 912s Capacitor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 07:11 AM - Re: Weird LED fuse behavior (Phil Birkelbach)
16. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: Battery dumps (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 07:47 AM - ELT Antenna With Floats (Don Boardman)
18. 08:09 AM - Re: Toggle Switches (Dan Checkoway)
19. 08:34 AM - Re: Re: Falcon Turn Coordinator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 08:34 AM - Re: ?punch for Carling? (Larry Bowen)
21. 08:55 AM - Re: Sky-Tec starter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 08:58 AM - Re: "mother of all electric systems" or (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 09:57 AM - Re: ?punch for Carling? (John Schroeder)
24. 11:14 AM - Re: ELT Antenna With Floats (Benford2@aol.com)
25. 11:17 AM - World's easiest question... (Eric M. Jones)
26. 11:22 AM - Re: World's easiest question... (David Swartzendruber)
27. 11:35 AM - Re: Weird LED fuse behavior (John Slade)
28. 11:40 AM - Re: World's easiest question... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
29. 11:42 AM - Re: ELT Antenna With Floats (Matt Prather)
30. 11:48 AM - Re: ?punch for Carling? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
31. 11:48 AM - Re: ELT Antenna With Floats (Terry Watson)
32. 11:49 AM - Re: World's easiest question... (Chad Robinson)
33. 01:56 PM - Re: ELT Antenna With Floats (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
34. 02:08 PM - Re: ELT Antenna With Floats (Dave Morris)
35. 02:42 PM - Re: ELT Antenna With Floats (Matt Prather)
36. 02:52 PM - Re: ?punch for Carling? (Larry Bowen)
37. 05:11 PM - Re: Toggle Switches (Charlie Kuss)
38. 06:21 PM - Re: ELT Antenna With Floats (Scott, Ian)
39. 06:23 PM - interesting resource re aviation survival (Scott, Ian)
40. 07:57 PM - Re: ?punch for Carling? (Wesley T Robinson)
41. 07:57 PM - Fuse Holders (David Swartzendruber)
42. 08:00 PM - Re: Runaway stab trim prevention (bryan hooks)
43. 08:02 PM - FW: Grounding Power outlets (Don Boardman)
44. 08:02 PM - Avionics design robustness (Rob W M Shipley)
45. 08:14 PM - Re: Turn coordinator (Dabusmith@aol.com)
46. 09:10 PM - Re: Re: Turn coordinator (Ned Thomas)
47. 09:25 PM - Re: Re: Battery dumps (Paul Messinger)
48. 09:56 PM - Re: Re: Battery dumps (David Carter)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 912s Capacitor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
I have had both left and right Aeroflash power supplies go bad in less than
100 hours in service. My Falcon turn coordinator is not spinning up even though
the flag is not displayed.
My other systems are working perfectly. I am using Bob's wiring design
w/crowbar. Is it likely my capacitor is bad? I am inclined to think these components
failed on their own but I don't know how to tell. Would a bad capacitor cause
problems like this? My voltage in flight is steady.
Dave Smith
701 95 hr.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Battery dumps |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "George Braly" <gwbraly@gami.com>
Yes. DO-160D does address load dumps. For both 14 and 28 volt systems.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Messinger
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery dumps
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger"
<paulm@olypen.com>
Thanks for your support. I am fine, just see no need to spend thousands
on
brand name equipment that may/may not meet DO-160. Also ever try to find
out
just what the equipment really was tested to; say from King etc etc.
Best
of luck truing to get that info from most any mfgr. Statements meeting
DO-160 or other \specs seldom are informative as which parts etc were
met
and which parts were not tested or was it all engineering and no
testing.
I fall back on common sense engineering as learned in aerospace where
lots
of discussions with EMC group and lab drove what worked and what did not
work..
I have a auto engine conversion and find that requires a somewhat
different
design approach. Also most automotive design standards appear to greatly
exceed what I can learn about DO-160 (which is darn little).
As far as DO-160 I do not know if it covers the load dump of the current
discussion and I am waiting for Bob to extract what HV pulse it tests
to. As
an unprotected spike can exceed 50V the test of 20v or 30 v is not
adequate
in my opinion and seems to be related to OVP not load dump protection.
I am working with another person off line that perhaps has a solution
that
will be simple and keep the peak voltage under 20V, At least the
potential
is that good. When the development is done He will be the one to
announce as
its based on his input to the problem.
Expect it to take a month however to complete.
At this point I am waiting for info from Bob on what DO-160 tests to
with
regard to spikes. Also perhaps the test circuit used.
We have what the auto industry tests to for load dump.
I wonder if DO-160 even addresses load dump effects on the equipment??
Who can tell, I sure cannot as Buying a copy is not in my budget.
This is a common problem where Standards are not public and one has to
buy
the standard at manufacturers high prices.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery dumps
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter"
<dcarter@datarecall.net>
>
> Bob & Paul,
>
> Thank you for the continuing excellent analysis and discussion - I
feel
sure
> that "at the end of the tunnel" of this "thread", we are going to 1)
have
> another innovative, well-peer-reviewed addition to our OBAM bus
> architecture - to deal with this "battery dump/surge" phenomenon, or,
2)
> have some really clear understanding of some "required" "pilot
operating
> procedures to avoid 'economically un-fixable' bus architecture
limitations",
> and, maybe, 3) an optional 'economically stressful fix' to the problem
> (e.g., "power conditioner" that Bob mentioned - many of us are using
engine
> monitors and electronic fuel injection and electronic ignition
controllers
> with computer boards and some are likely NOT DO-160 qual'd - stuff
that we
> need to protect in order to stay airborne, as well as MicroEncoders
and
> other NON-essential gadgets that we'd like to keep out of the "frying
pan"
> so as to save our wallets.)
>
>
==
==
==
==
Message 3
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| Subject: | ?punch for Carling? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" <tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
Gentlemen,
I thought of another possibility during the night: I could add a doubler to
the panel in the area of the switches. The locking holes could be drilled
all the way through the doubler before the doubler is riveted to the panel.
Bob's solution using the modified drill bit is pretty slick too!
Regards,
Troy Scott
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Runaway stab trim prevention |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Was it a real situation or just the product of a vivid imagination? If it
was a real situation, and they are writing about it after the fact, it may
be more of an annoyance than a serious problem.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Runaway stab trim prevention
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
<mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> Has this actually happened to someone? What would cause it?
> Is there a way to avoid the problem? Sounds kind of nasty.
>
> >Saw a post today on one of the other email groups about the effects of
> >runaway stab trim on an RV. ....
>
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
Message 5
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Has anyone found an alternative to the tiny screws used to mount/secure
d-subs plugs? I'm thinking of a thumb-screw type thing. Unscrewing
those tiny screws in the close confines of a completed airplane (and
them dropping them) doesn't sound like fun. Thumb screws that would
work with or without d-sub hoods/shells would be ideal.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Runaway stab trim prevention |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
I am going to use the EXP buss system and have a trim disable function on
one of the switches. I bought it unlabeled to provide some flexibility for
switch assignment.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Runaway stab trim prevention
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
<mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> Has this actually happened to someone? What would cause it?
> Is there a way to avoid the problem? Sounds kind of nasty.
>
> >Saw a post today on one of the other email groups about the effects of
> >runaway stab trim on an RV. ....
>
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Remote Compass mounting? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jrstone@insightbb.com>
Would the metal contents in your luggage compartment like golf clubs affect
its accuracy?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton01@rogers.com>
<aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dynon Remote Compass mounting?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
<khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> I'm pondering the details of how to mount the remote compass sensor
> for my Dynon EFIS. I'm leaning towards hanging it from the top of
> the F-809 bulkhead on my RV-8, somewhat similar to:
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~jwdanie/Compass/compass.html
>
> But, I'm worried about potential interference from the high voltage
> strobe light line that goes from the power supply back to the tail
> strobe. I could reroute that guy lower, but it will be a real PITA.
> So, I'm wondering how close anyone has run a strobe light cable (the
> big grey one that goes from the power supply to the light) to the
> EDC-10 remote compass mount. If you've got such a strobe line in the
> area of your remote compass sensor, tell me how far away it is, and
> whether you can see any effect on heading from it.
>
> My strobe cable would probably be about 8 inches from the compass
> sensor if I don't move it. I don't want to move it if I can get away
> with it.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent@hotmail.com>
The majority of the toggle switches that I purchased came without
anti-rotation washers. I have looked in several catalogs (Newark, etc.) and
can not find them listed separately. Can one of you guys tell me where I
can buy anti-rotation washers separately?
Vince Welch
Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar includes FREE pop-up blocking!
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:29 AM 3/2/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Vincent Welch"
><welchvincent@hotmail.com>
>
>The majority of the toggle switches that I purchased came without
>anti-rotation washers. I have looked in several catalogs (Newark, etc.) and
>can not find them listed separately. Can one of you guys tell me where I
>can buy anti-rotation washers separately?
B&C Specialy Products. E-mail Todd at mailto:todd@bandc.biz or call
them at 316.283.8000. They don't show as separate items in their
catalog but I think they'll make them available to you.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon Remote Compass mounting? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:19 AM 3/2/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jrstone@insightbb.com>
>
>Would the metal contents in your luggage compartment like golf clubs affect
>its accuracy?
>Jim
How far away? Any non-magnetized materials 2' or more away
will have negligible effect . . . besides, GPS in the magnetic
track mode will always be more accurate and unaffected by
local conditions.
How about putting the sensor out in a wing?
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Falcon Turn Coordinator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
This is a common problem as I learned. My first one quit within the
warranty period. The second one worked just beyond that. I inquired at
Falcon where I could send it or if it was even worth repairing given the
apparent service life. The response was essentially that the brushes gum up
and they promised to send cleaning instructions. I never got that
particular post, but it is easy to do. The case is opened by removing one
screw. There is an O-ring seal between the outer case and the inner, so it
is a bit of a chore to get the case removal started. Once inside the
brushes can be removed by removing a clip - I don't remember exactly how it
is configured. I cleaned the commutator with a little crocus cloth and
swabbed it out with a little denatured alcohol on a Q-tip and it has worked
this time longer than both previous times together.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dabusmith@aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 912s Capacitor
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
>
> I have had both left and right Aeroflash power supplies go bad in less
than
> 100 hours in service. My Falcon turn coordinator is not spinning up even
though
> the flag is not displayed.
> My other systems are working perfectly. I am using Bob's wiring design
> w/crowbar. Is it likely my capacitor is bad? I am inclined to think these
components
> failed on their own but I don't know how to tell. Would a bad capacitor
cause
> problems like this? My voltage in flight is steady.
> Dave Smith
> 701 95 hr.
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Securing d-subs |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:49 AM 3/2/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
>Has anyone found an alternative to the tiny screws used to mount/secure
>d-subs plugs? I'm thinking of a thumb-screw type thing. Unscrewing
>those tiny screws in the close confines of a completed airplane (and
>them dropping them) doesn't sound like fun. Thumb screws that would
>work with or without d-sub hoods/shells would be ideal.
See bottom of page at
http://dkc3.digikey.com/pdf/T041/0140.pdf
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: ?punch for Carling? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:42 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott"
><tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>I thought of another possibility during the night: I could add a doubler to
>the panel in the area of the switches. The locking holes could be drilled
>all the way through the doubler before the doubler is riveted to the panel.
>Bob's solution using the modified drill bit is pretty slick too!
How do you plan to label the switches? I usually drill the
anti-rotation holes all the way through the panel because
they're covered up the engraved switch panel.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 912s Capacitor |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 03:02 AM 3/2/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
>
>I have had both left and right Aeroflash power supplies go bad in less than
>100 hours in service. My Falcon turn coordinator is not spinning up even
>though
>the flag is not displayed.
>My other systems are working perfectly. I am using Bob's wiring design
>w/crowbar. Is it likely my capacitor is bad? I am inclined to think these
>components
>failed on their own but I don't know how to tell. Would a bad capacitor cause
>problems like this? My voltage in flight is steady.
Steady . . . but what is it? Have you checked the voltage
in flight with another voltmeter to confirm calibration
of any voltmeter you may have on the panel. Also, while
looking at DC volts with your multimeter, put it on the
AC volts scale and see what reading you get. Anything over
1.0 volts is reason to investigate further. How old is
the present capacitor?
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Weird LED fuse behavior |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil@petrasoft.net>
I have not seen this happen with any automotive fuses, but we use a lot of
GMA fuses offshore for the control systems. Recently on a startup in the
Gulf we had a whole batch of fuses that seemed to be made from resistive
material. They weren't blown and they weren't good either. It was like
having a resister in the line. Very strange. Now that I think about it
though they didn't light up the little LED indicators either, that was what
had us so confused. If they had illuminated the LED then we would never had
measured the fuse with an ohmmeter.
Sorry if I confused the situation. This is just another item in a long list
of reasons why I don't like 'blown-fuse' indicators.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Baffles / Cowling
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Weird LED fuse behavior
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 02:06 PM 3/1/2004 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Phil Birkelbach"
> ><phil@petrasoft.net>
> >
> >I have seen some fuses lately that had some resistance in them. If there
is
> >any resistance in the fuse the LED will glow. Try replacing the fuse and
> >see if that helps.
> >
> >Godspeed,
>
> I'm mystified by this symptom. Red LEDs take about 2 volts
> to get any light out of them. There's no fuse that should
> have a 2 volt drop across it without being blown open.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Battery dumps |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:40 PM 3/1/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
>
>Thanks for your support. I am fine, just see no need to spend thousands on
>brand name equipment that may/may not meet DO-160. Also ever try to find out
>just what the equipment really was tested to; say from King etc etc. Best
>of luck truing to get that info from most any mfgr. Statements meeting
>DO-160 or other \specs seldom are informative as which parts etc were met
>and which parts were not tested or was it all engineering and no testing.
Shouldn't be a problem. Every manufacturer that has taken
the trouble to adopt and comply with DO-160 testing usually
labeles their products to that effect. Our DO-160 qualified
products at Electromech had a line on the label that looked
something like:
DO-160 Env Cat. A2WBABSWLXXXXXXAAAAVWPLB3D4XXXA
Each of those characters in the line represent on of the
DO-160 tests. The value of the character may speak to the
level of stress applied during testing. An X in any slot
says testing was not done in that category. King Radio
puts the DO-160 test spread in their installation manuals.
Even if not published, I cannot imagine anyone taking trouble
to do testing and not willingly taking credit for it over the
phone. If they're reluctant to share such data, it's more
likely that the testing was never done or test results
were disappointing than for testing to have been accomplished
as a "company secrete". If it's a "secret" then it's an answer
they don't want spread around.
>As far as DO-160 I do not know if it covers the load dump of the current
>discussion and I am waiting for Bob to extract what HV pulse it tests to. As
>an unprotected spike can exceed 50V the test of 20v or 30 v is not adequate
>in my opinion and seems to be related to OVP not load dump protection.
>
>I am working with another person off line that perhaps has a solution that
>will be simple and keep the peak voltage under 20V, At least the potential
>is that good. When the development is done He will be the one to announce as
>its based on his input to the problem.
>
>Expect it to take a month however to complete.
>
>At this point I am waiting for info from Bob on what DO-160 tests to with
>regard to spikes. Also perhaps the test circuit used.
The current DO-160 spike test calls for a 300 volt peak pulse delivered
in 10 microsecond through a 50 ohm source impedance. This spike is easily
filtered off with 10 uF input filter cap.
The DO-160 abnormal surge test of 40v for 100 mS is intended to cover
all expected stresses including load or battery dump.
>We have what the auto industry tests to for load dump.
>
>I wonder if DO-160 even addresses load dump effects on the equipment??
>
>Who can tell, I sure cannot as Buying a copy is not in my budget.
>This is a common problem where Standards are not public and one has to buy
>the standard at manufacturers high prices.
Keep in mind that RTCA is neither a manufacturer nor a regulatory
agency. It's a "club" supported by member dues and sales of documents.
If it were a government agency, a copy would be $20 and the taxpayers
would probably be soaked $500 for the cost of maintaining the
facility and personnel that printed it.
See rtca.org
DO-160 to non-members is $195 in hard copy. Dirt cheap for the
time, trouble, and p-o'ed customers it avoids. The cost of the
document is a pittance compared to the time/effort/dollars spent
on doing the design work and confirmation of results suggested
by DO-160. This isn't an exclusive club but membership and stature
is not easily won. It behooves a member of the OBAM aircraft
supply community to at least be cognizant of DO-160 test levels
and design with them in mind. Much of what is suggested can be
substantially complied with by design and without formal testing.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | ELT Antenna With Floats |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
Hi all,
I am mounting the short ELT antenna on the belly of my metal Moose.
It's center line is a bit cluttered with push pulls, cables etc. I would
like to mount it about a foot off center.
My question concerns the 3500 amphib Aerocet fiberglass floats sitting under
the airplane. Do floats "block" the signal to and from the antenna? My guess
is that aluminum floats would. What about ones made of fiberglass?
Is there a better option for mounting an ELT antenna given floats?
Thanks,
Don B.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> >The majority of the toggle switches that I purchased came without
> >anti-rotation washers. I have looked in several catalogs (Newark, etc.)
and
> >can not find them listed separately. Can one of you guys tell me where I
> >can buy anti-rotation washers separately?
>
> B&C Specialy Products. E-mail Todd at mailto:todd@bandc.biz or call
> them at 316.283.8000. They don't show as separate items in their
> catalog but I think they'll make them available to you.
I've heard people say that B&C sometimes forgets they carry 'em. 8-)
They're p/n S700LW in case that happens to you.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Falcon Turn Coordinator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:50 AM 3/2/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
>This is a common problem as I learned. My first one quit within the
>warranty period. The second one worked just beyond that. I inquired at
>Falcon where I could send it or if it was even worth repairing given the
>apparent service life. The response was essentially that the brushes gum up
>and they promised to send cleaning instructions. I never got that
>particular post, but it is easy to do. The case is opened by removing one
>screw. There is an O-ring seal between the outer case and the inner, so it
>is a bit of a chore to get the case removal started. Once inside the
>brushes can be removed by removing a clip - I don't remember exactly how it
>is configured. I cleaned the commutator with a little crocus cloth and
>swabbed it out with a little denatured alcohol on a Q-tip and it has worked
>this time longer than both previous times together.
Interesting. Touching a commutator . . . particularly a fine-motor
commutator with anything other than cleaning solvent and soft wipe
will put microgrooves in the copper surface that will degrade brush
life. In a motor shop, commutators are finished on a lathe with a
diamond tool to re-cut the surface.
In your case, where there is contamination of the brush/comm
interface, perhaps some abrasive effects are beneficial. What
may be happening here is an exchange of poor performance due
to dirt or poor brush selection in trade for shorter brush
life. It will be interesting to see how long it runs this
time and what the next failure mode will be.
Interesting data points Lowell, thanks for sharing them
with us!
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 20
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| Subject: | ?punch for Carling? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I drilled those holes all the way through, in the panel and console.
You can't even notice them once the washer is in place unless you are
right up on them.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> At 07:42 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott"
> ><tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
> >
> >Gentlemen,
> >
> >I thought of another possibility during the night: I could add a
> >doubler to the panel in the area of the switches. The locking holes
> >could be drilled all the way through the doubler before the
> doubler is
> >riveted to the panel. Bob's solution using the modified drill bit is
> >pretty slick too!
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Sky-Tec starter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:10 PM 1/3/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott"
><tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
>
>Bob Nuckells,
>you wrote: "If getting the best starter wasn't an option for me, then adding
>the run-on eliminator would be a good idea."
>
>OK. When I bought the DemarsAero IO360B1E (several years ago), Demars
>suggested the Sky-Tec starter for it's lightness. At the time I knew
>NOTHING about starters except that they are expensive and they sometimes
>break. I've spent most of the last several days studying your book and the
>AeroElectric discussion group archives. I've read several of your posts in
>which you discuss the run-on problem of the PM starters and the high inrush
>current, which could even drop the system voltage to the point that the EI
>wouldn't fire. WOW! The Sky-Tec starter sounds awful!
Not awful, it just has unique characteristics that require
thoughtful system integration. Alternators were a great improvement
over generators but the worked differently (the split rocker master
switch was born, ov protection was standard, etc). The Sky-Tec
is head and shoulders above the Prestolite pig for overall performance
but he has characteristics that make it less friendly to other
systems and components when compared with the wound field starter
like B&C.
> How do they stay in
>business? Anyway, you've offered fixes like the buffer relay to prevent
>run-on and a second battery so the engine can start on one while the EI is
>powered from the other. I could deal with the buffer relay, but having to
>add a second battery just to keep the EI firing seems ridiculous.
Agreed. Hit the starter button and let the engine run a couple
of blades before you turn the ignition switch on. I'll bet this
covers you.
> What
>happens when the two batteries are connected to assist cold-weather
>starting? Bottom Line: Do I need to try to sell the Sky-Tec starter and
>buy a B&C starter?
Not necessarily. Run the Sky-Tec and see what happens. If
the design tweaks and work-arounds do the job, then get your
money's worth out of it. When and if it becomes necessary
to replace the Sky-Tec, consider the B&C and decide wether
friendlier installation and operational characteristics
are worth the extra dollars. Too many decisions are made
on dollars alone . . . when ALL the data is known and
your own goals are factored in, perhaps the higher priced
starter is not as "expensive" as you might have originally
perceived.
Bob . . .
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: "mother of all electric systems" or |
just add SD-8
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
just add SD-8
At 11:50 PM 1/3/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott"
><tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
>
>Bob Nuckolls,
>
>First, I apologize! I've just realized I've been mis-spelling your name.
>In reading your book, I discovered the Fig's 17-5 and Z-14 dual battery,
>dual alternator, split bus "mother of all electrical systems" design. The
>clever name you've given this plan sounds like high praise to me. I assumed
>that meant that's what I, as a serious pilot, should do. But I've since
>come across more of your writings, particularly messages 3573, 3865, 2539,
>3160, 4090 (and probably several others I haven't found yet) which all sound
>like you really think the "all electric airplane on a budget" architecture
>shown in Z-13 is very adequate and possibly preferable.
That's my personal favorite.
> It's certainly
>lighter.
and much less expensive
> As I've mentioned before I have the IO360 Lycoming with dual
>ElectroAir EI and normal compression, and an all-electric (but not too
>power-hungry) IFR panel. I thought I had decided to proceed with the
>"mother of all...." plan, but if you think the "all electric on a budget"
>plan is sufficient, that's what I'll do. Anxiously awaiting your reply to
>this and the PM starter question
Sorry for the delay. too many trips, so little time. If
your compliment of hardware were going into my airplane,
Z-13 would be my choice. Given that you have two engine
driven power sources, I'm not sure I'd bother with a second
battery even with dual electronic ignition. If you do
experience main alternator failure, fly on one of the two
ignitions as a load reduction measure
Bob . . .
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: ?punch for Carling? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Bob Nuckolls also has a very nice paper on mounting switches using a
spotfacer and a modified #30 drill. I believe it is on his website. It is
articles/switchmounting/switchmounting.html
Cheers,
John
On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 21:15:23 -0600, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 09:09 PM 3/1/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray"
>> <Bruce@glasair.org>
>>
>> Insert tab washer from the back of the panel with the tab facing the
>> panel back. Pull the switch forward to set and hold the tab against the
>> panel back. Rotate the switch +/- 90 degrees. You have now made a scribe
>> mark on the panel back with the tab. Drill hole halfway through the
>> panel, from the back, on the scribe line. Done.
>>
>> Or you can buy a key punch. Expensive $100 +.
>>
>> Bruce
>> www.glasair.org
>
> Another technique I've used is to cut the peripheral
> tab completely off the keying washer. Coat one side
> with thin coat of E6000 or ShoeGoo cement. Assemble
> switch on panel with keying washer on back side, glued
> face to the panel. Wait 24 hours before disassembly.
>
> This genre' of cements does a good job of bonding
> the keying washer to an aluminum panel. There is
> slight risk of some squish-out glue getting into
> switch mounting threads. It's only a slight impediment
> to future disassembly and may be easily trimmed away
> with an Xacto knife later.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna With Floats |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 3/2/2004 8:47:52 AM Mountain Standard Time,
dboardm3@twcny.rr.com writes:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am mounting the short ELT antenna on the belly of my metal Moose.
> It's center line is a bit cluttered with push pulls, cables etc. I would
> like to mount it about a foot off center.
>
> My question concerns the 3500 amphib Aerocet fiberglass floats sitting under
> the airplane. Do floats "block" the signal to and from the antenna? My guess
> is that aluminum floats would. What about ones made of fiberglass?
>
> Is there a better option for mounting an ELT antenna given floats?
>
>
>
ELT antenna should be on top of the fuselage. That is unless you are sure you
will go in up side down every time..
do not archive
Message 25
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| Subject: | World's easiest question... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Okay, so how do I remove solder flux? In the easiest, greenest, way....? Is
there some secret?
Eric
Message 26
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| Subject: | World's easiest question... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
Use water soluable flux and then flush with water.
Dave
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
> <emjones@charter.net>
>
> Okay, so how do I remove solder flux? In the easiest, greenest,
way....?
> Is
> there some secret?
>
> Eric
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Weird LED fuse behavior |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
Thanks for all the input on the glowing fuse.
I replaced it with another fuse (same type) and the problem went away. I'm
guessing at a fault within the fuse itself.
Regards,
John Slade
Message 28
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| Subject: | World's easiest question... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 01:22 PM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote:
Water soluble is good. If you're using more resistant
fluxes, try this: I buy cans of carburetor cleaner from
Walmart. The really cheap stuff is about 90 cents a can.
The liquid is basically lacquer thinner. The spray
is powerful enough to do a quick job of cleaning up.
One caveat, some plastics may not like the cleaner but
this is rare in electronics parts. I wash with the carb
cleaner and then blow dry with a heat gun set on low
heat. Your finished surfaces are ready for conformal
coating.
Bob . . .
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber"
><dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
>
>Use water soluable flux and then flush with water.
>
>Dave
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
> > <emjones@charter.net>
> >
> > Okay, so how do I remove solder flux? In the easiest, greenest,
>way....?
> > Is
> > there some secret?
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna With Floats |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
I am not saying it is best, but many certified ships have the
ELT antenna mounted on the belly...
MAP
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 3/2/2004 8:47:52 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> dboardm3@twcny.rr.com writes:
>
>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am mounting the short ELT antenna on the belly of my metal Moose.
>> It's center line is a bit cluttered with push pulls, cables etc. I
>> would like to mount it about a foot off center.
>>
>> My question concerns the 3500 amphib Aerocet fiberglass floats sitting
>> under the airplane. Do floats "block" the signal to and from the
>> antenna? My guess is that aluminum floats would. What about ones made
>> of fiberglass?
>>
>> Is there a better option for mounting an ELT antenna given floats?
>>
>>
>>
>
> ELT antenna should be on top of the fuselage. That is unless you are
> sure you will go in up side down every time..
> do not archive
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | ?punch for Carling? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:34 AM 3/2/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
>I drilled those holes all the way through, in the panel and console.
>You can't even notice them once the washer is in place unless you are
>right up on them.
Washers on the pilot side of the panel? I usually put them on the
switch side and use a thin, flat washer on the front to keep from scratching
the panel with my nut-driver.
Bob . . .
Message 31
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| Subject: | ELT Antenna With Floats |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Don,
If you mean the transponder antenna, maybe inside the fiberglass floats
would be a good location. Glass airplane builders and RV builders with
fiberglass wingtips often mount antennas inside. As someone else pointed
out, maybe the ELT antenna belongs on top.
Terry
Hi all,
I am mounting the short ELT antenna on the belly of my metal Moose.
It's center line is a bit cluttered with push pulls, cables etc. I would
like to mount it about a foot off center.
My question concerns the 3500 amphib Aerocet fiberglass floats sitting under
the airplane. Do floats "block" the signal to and from the antenna? My guess
is that aluminum floats would. What about ones made of fiberglass?
Is there a better option for mounting an ELT antenna given floats?
Thanks,
Don B.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: World's easiest question... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chad Robinson <crobinson@rfgonline.com>
Eric M. Jones wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>
> Okay, so how do I remove solder flux? In the easiest, greenest, way....? Is
> there some secret?
With flux remover. =) Seriously, rubbing alcohol works to some degree, and I
use it a lot on circuit boards with water-soluble flux but not all flux is
water-soluble. Most electronics supply houses carry flux remover that will do
the job. I get mine from Digikey or Circuit Specialists. If you are picking
the flux yourself use water-soluble and it'll save you trouble. But most
resin-core solders have flux that is NOT water-soluble, so keeping remover on
hand is a good idea.
In terms of being green, well, you could always leave it in a trash-destined
glass jar, wait a LONG time for the stuff to just evaporate, then throw the
jar and residue out. But most of these flux removers are just alcohol-based
solvents so they can be safely flushed down the drain. They're certainly much
better for the environment than etchant...
Regards,
Chad
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna With Floats |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> Do floats "block" the signal to and from the antenna?
>
How about water? How far under before CAP can't hear you anymore?
(sorry, can't help myself!)
and do not archive !
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna With Floats |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris <dave@davemorris.com>
If, God forbid, your ELT has been "triggered", your airplane is probably
(gulp) sitting on the ground, and if your antenna is on the belly, it may
be covered in dirt. Difficult for the Coast Guard or CAP aircraft to pick
up. I would think a better place would be the tip of the tail, which
usually survives everything we can throw it at.
Dave Morris
At 12:42 PM 3/2/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
>
>I am not saying it is best, but many certified ships have the
>ELT antenna mounted on the belly...
>
>MAP
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 3/2/2004 8:47:52 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> > dboardm3@twcny.rr.com writes:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I am mounting the short ELT antenna on the belly of my metal Moose.
> >> It's center line is a bit cluttered with push pulls, cables etc. I
> >> would like to mount it about a foot off center.
> >>
> >> My question concerns the 3500 amphib Aerocet fiberglass floats sitting
> >> under the airplane. Do floats "block" the signal to and from the
> >> antenna? My guess is that aluminum floats would. What about ones made
> >> of fiberglass?
> >>
> >> Is there a better option for mounting an ELT antenna given floats?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ELT antenna should be on top of the fuselage. That is unless you are
> > sure you will go in up side down every time..
> > do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
Dave Morris
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna With Floats |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Like I said, on the belly is probably not the best, but is
accepted.
Not to belabor this argument (because I think ELT's
have limited value anyway), but if you land in something
soft, or really rough, the airplane is likely to end up
inverted, which will probably bury the antenna if its
mounted on top of the fin.
For survivability, I think just in front of the vertical fin is a
good spot. That's were many late model Cessnas have
it located. Unless the fin is completely ripped off, the
antenna is probably going to survive.
Regards,
MAP
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris
> <dave@davemorris.com>
>
> If, God forbid, your ELT has been "triggered", your airplane is probably
> (gulp) sitting on the ground, and if your antenna is on the belly, it
> may be covered in dirt. Difficult for the Coast Guard or CAP aircraft
> to pick up. I would think a better place would be the tip of the tail,
> which usually survives everything we can throw it at.
>
> Dave Morris
>
> At 12:42 PM 3/2/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather"
>> <mprather@spro.net>
>>
>>I am not saying it is best, but many certified ships have the
>>ELT antenna mounted on the belly...
>>
>>MAP
>>
>> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>> >
>> > In a message dated 3/2/2004 8:47:52 AM Mountain Standard Time,
>> dboardm3@twcny.rr.com writes:
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> I am mounting the short ELT antenna on the belly of my metal Moose.
>> It's center line is a bit cluttered with push pulls, cables etc. I
>> would like to mount it about a foot off center.
>> >>
>> >> My question concerns the 3500 amphib Aerocet fiberglass floats
>> sitting under the airplane. Do floats "block" the signal to and
>> from the antenna? My guess is that aluminum floats would. What
>> about ones made of fiberglass?
>> >>
>> >> Is there a better option for mounting an ELT antenna given floats?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > ELT antenna should be on top of the fuselage. That is unless you are
>> sure you will go in up side down every time..
>> > do not archive
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
> Dave Morris
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | ?punch for Carling? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Yes, on the pilot side of the panel. My switches didn't come with any
flat washers. I don't/didn't know any better, and I think they look
good. And I won't let this line of questioning lead to doubt and
re-installation of said switches.... :)
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [mailto:bob.nuckolls@cox.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 2:48 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: ?punch for Carling?
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> --> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 11:34 AM 3/2/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
> >--> <Larry@BowenAero.com>
> >
> >I drilled those holes all the way through, in the panel and console.
> >You can't even notice them once the washer is in place
> unless you are
> >right up on them.
>
> Washers on the pilot side of the panel? I usually put them on the
> switch side and use a thin, flat washer on the front to
> keep from scratching
> the panel with my nut-driver.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ============
> Matronics Forums.
> ============
> ============
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
> Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
> ============
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Toggle Switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Vince,
Carling Technologies has them listed in their catalog. See
http://www.carlingtech.com/pdf/s_bushng.pdf
They are on the lower right side of page 69
B&C or your local Carling distributor can get them for you.
Charlie Kuss
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent@hotmail.com>
>
>The majority of the toggle switches that I purchased came without
>anti-rotation washers. I have looked in several catalogs (Newark, etc.) and
>can not find them listed separately. Can one of you guys tell me where I
>can buy anti-rotation washers separately?
>
>Vince Welch
>
>Find things fast with the new MSN Toolbar includes FREE pop-up blocking!
>http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | ELT Antenna With Floats |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott, Ian" <ian_scott@commander.com>
you should look at a personal EPIRB, of the 406 Mhz variety. (and if you must have
a old style one look at a MT 310 that fits in your pocket.
If you get out so does your epirb. (more than 60% of installed epirbs fail to activate
in a crash)
have a look at
http://www.equipped.org/uscgsarsat.htm
http://www.equipped.org/faq_plb/default.asp
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Prather [mailto:mprather@spro.net]
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna With Floats
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Like I said, on the belly is probably not the best, but is
accepted.
Not to belabor this argument (because I think ELT's
have limited value anyway), but if you land in something
soft, or really rough, the airplane is likely to end up
inverted, which will probably bury the antenna if its
mounted on top of the fin.
For survivability, I think just in front of the vertical fin is a
good spot. That's were many late model Cessnas have
it located. Unless the fin is completely ripped off, the
antenna is probably going to survive.
Regards,
MAP
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris
> <dave@davemorris.com>
>
> If, God forbid, your ELT has been "triggered", your airplane is probably
> (gulp) sitting on the ground, and if your antenna is on the belly, it
> may be covered in dirt. Difficult for the Coast Guard or CAP aircraft
> to pick up. I would think a better place would be the tip of the tail,
> which usually survives everything we can throw it at.
>
> Dave Morris
>
> At 12:42 PM 3/2/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather"
>> <mprather@spro.net>
>>
>>I am not saying it is best, but many certified ships have the
>>ELT antenna mounted on the belly...
>>
>>MAP
>>
>> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>> >
>> > In a message dated 3/2/2004 8:47:52 AM Mountain Standard Time,
>> dboardm3@twcny.rr.com writes:
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> I am mounting the short ELT antenna on the belly of my metal Moose.
>> It's center line is a bit cluttered with push pulls, cables etc. I
>> would like to mount it about a foot off center.
>> >>
>> >> My question concerns the 3500 amphib Aerocet fiberglass floats
>> sitting under the airplane. Do floats "block" the signal to and
>> from the antenna? My guess is that aluminum floats would. What
>> about ones made of fiberglass?
>> >>
>> >> Is there a better option for mounting an ELT antenna given floats?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > ELT antenna should be on top of the fuselage. That is unless you are
>> sure you will go in up side down every time..
>> > do not archive
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
> Dave Morris
>
>
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Message 39
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| Subject: | interesting resource re aviation survival |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott, Ian" <ian_scott@commander.com>
http://www.equipped.com/avsrvtoc.htm
----------------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.commander.com
This message is for the named person's use only.
Privileged/confidential information may be contained in
this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in
this message (or responsible for delivery of the message
to such person), you may not copy or deliver this
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Message 40
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| Subject: | ?punch for Carling? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wesley T Robinson" <wesleyt@stanfordfurniture.com>
There is no username, just a password.
Wesley T Robinson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ?punch for Carling?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:42 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott"
><tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>I thought of another possibility during the night: I could add a
doubler to
>the panel in the area of the switches. The locking holes could be
drilled
>all the way through the doubler before the doubler is riveted to the
panel.
>Bob's solution using the modified drill bit is pretty slick too!
How do you plan to label the switches? I usually drill the
anti-rotation holes all the way through the panel because
they're covered up the engraved switch panel.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
==
==
==
==
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
Message 41
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<nospam@matronics.com>)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
(by way of Matt Dralle <nospam@matronics.com>)
A while back, the subject of some new fuseholders from Bussmann came up.
The unique feature of these fuseholders is that they mount through a panel
with all the wires behind, and fuse access in front. B&C chose to not add
these to their product line so I volunteered to do so.
If you are interested in this fuseholder, you will find more information at
www.mihdirect.biz where they are also available for purchase. Two members
of this list, Charlie Kuss and Kingsley Hurst, have already purchased these
fuseholders and I'm sure they would be willing to give their evaluation if
asked. Bob has also had a chance to see one.
Dave Swartzendruber
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Re: Runaway stab trim prevention |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bryan hooks" <hook3607@bellsouth.net>
Been off the list for a couple of bit.
Sorry to have caused such an issue 'bout the runaway stab trim thing.
Glad to hear that full trim at cruise is not that big a deal. I just
posed the question for two reasons: (1) I don't have any RV experience
yet and didn't know that it was really a non-event, and (2) the airplane
I fly at work can kill you (and actually has) if the trim runs away.and
that's with a stab trim cut-out switch within reach of both pilots. Now
don't get me wrong, I never believed this would be a BIG problem in an
RV, but I thought it could be an irritating event that might be
prevented if there was something that could be done easily and cheaply
to prevent it. Maybe I'll just remember where that ole trim circuit
breaker is located.
Bryan Hooks
RV7A, slow
Knoxville, TN
Hook3607@bellsouth.net
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | FW: Grounding Power outlets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
Hi Bob and All,
I am installing a power outlet (Cigar lighter) at each of the four seating
areas in my Moose. As I was running wire today and intending on bringing the
ground for the units back to the panel ground block I realized that the
units were also grounded via the airframe because of there construction.
What course of action is best?
Simply use the airframes local ground.
Leave the unit grounded to the airframe and also run the ground wire to the
PNL ground.
Manage to insulate the body of the unit from the airframe (a pain) and run a
ground wire to the PNL ground.
Thanks,
Don B.
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Avionics design robustness |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" <rob@robsglass.com>
Bob wrote
Years ago, I published a list of questions that folks could
paste to a note-card and carry around during their visits to
the various booths at OSH and elsewhere. The questions had to
do with information gathering about the manufacturer's awareness
and willingness to apply any level of environmental robustness
to his/her products. Whether or not DO-160 was embraced
was immaterial. The point was that EVERY manufacturer should
be aware of a degree of consumer concerns about such matters and
find it to be in their own best interests to address those concerns.
This is exactly how the free market is supposed to work and WILL
if we properly exercise our prerogatives as knowledgeable,
responsible consumers.
This advice came a few seconds after I had emailed Michael Coates at XCOM in Australia
to find out if this newer and presumably technologically more developed
successor to the Microair has better protection for voltage excursions.
I'll copy his reply to the list since this navcom appears to be a promising newcomer.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
N919RV (res) Fuselage .....still!
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Turn coordinator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
>> Touching a commutator . . . particularly a fine-motor
commutator with anything other than cleaning solvent and soft wipe
will put microgrooves in the copper surface that will degrade brush
life.
That is lucky for me. I cleaned mine with rubbing alcohol and Q-tip. It is
working normal again. I didn't have any fine abrasive handy. Grateful for the
info.
Dave Smith
Graham WA.
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Turn coordinator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net>
I took the "Ford" alternator out of my spam can to a local alternator repair
shop. I watched him"clean" the commutator. When he first put it on the
lathe I thought this was great, he would clean it up and make it truly
round. I was shocked when he picked up some emory cloth turned on the lathe
and used the cloth to "clean" the commutator. Said that's standard industry
practice, how he's done it for 30yrs...
He only charged me a couple dollars for the new brushes and "cleaning" and
told me it should outlast my airboat...:)
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dabusmith@aol.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Turn coordinator
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
>
> >> Touching a commutator . . . particularly a fine-motor
> commutator with anything other than cleaning solvent and soft wipe
> will put microgrooves in the copper surface that will degrade brush
> life.
>
> That is lucky for me. I cleaned mine with rubbing alcohol and Q-tip. It is
> working normal again. I didn't have any fine abrasive handy. Grateful for
the
> info.
>
> Dave Smith
> Graham WA.
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Battery dumps |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> The current DO-160 spike test calls for a 300 volt peak pulse delivered
> in 10 microsecond through a 50 ohm source impedance. This spike is
easily
> filtered off with 10 uF input filter cap.
>
> The DO-160 abnormal surge test of 40v for 100 mS is intended to cover
> all expected stresses including load or battery dump.
The spike test needs to include rise time. If the rise time is fast enough,
a 10MFD electrolytic may have a sufficiently high internal series resistance
to act more like a resistor than a cap.
So, while 10 mfd may be sufficient, just any 10 mfd cap may not be.In the
aerospace world we used a tantalum cap along with a much smaller HV cap to
catch the fast spikes.
The load dump case of 40V for 100 MS is both lower V and shorter duration
than specified for automotive load dump suppression devices.
I intend to test various load dump currents from 10 to at least 40 amps in
sudden load reduction along with 0 thru 20 amps non dumped load (the
electrical system)
I have not heard of 40V and 100 ms being something avionics are designed to
withstand. That sure is much harder to design to than a simple input cap.
If the load dump is the result of the battery contactor opening the
alternator "B" lead is still connected to the main bus of the aircraft and
the load dump spike is passed on to the rest of the acft electronics. The
bus voltage will rise until it supports the peak dump current and that can
be shorted components. This applies to both internal and external
regulators.
I hope to test and suggest a solution to two different concerns.
First protection of the alternator regulator from a load dump. Appears to be
fairly simple At least to keep the pulse under 40v.
The second concern is where the battery is being charged and is suddenly
disconnected but the "B" lead is still connected to the main bus. Also the
objective is to keep the peak voyage under 30 V and ideally under 20 V.
There is a design being considered that may accomplish that is simple and
thus low cost.
As I have mentioned in a past post I am working with another electronics
expert off line and the results will be posted when there is real data to be
shown.
Thus its time to go silent for a while and spend the resulting time working.
Paul
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Battery dumps |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Good words, Paul. We'll be standing by for your next transmission.
David
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Battery dumps
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger"
<paulm@olypen.com>
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> > The current DO-160 spike test calls for a 300 volt peak pulse
delivered
> > in 10 microsecond through a 50 ohm source impedance. This spike is
> easily
> > filtered off with 10 uF input filter cap.
> >
> > The DO-160 abnormal surge test of 40v for 100 mS is intended to cover
> > all expected stresses including load or battery dump.
>
> The spike test needs to include rise time. If the rise time is fast
enough,
> a 10MFD electrolytic may have a sufficiently high internal series
resistance
> to act more like a resistor than a cap.
>
> So, while 10 mfd may be sufficient, just any 10 mfd cap may not be.In the
> aerospace world we used a tantalum cap along with a much smaller HV cap to
> catch the fast spikes.
>
> The load dump case of 40V for 100 MS is both lower V and shorter duration
> than specified for automotive load dump suppression devices.
>
> I intend to test various load dump currents from 10 to at least 40 amps in
> sudden load reduction along with 0 thru 20 amps non dumped load (the
> electrical system)
>
> I have not heard of 40V and 100 ms being something avionics are designed
to
> withstand. That sure is much harder to design to than a simple input cap.
>
> If the load dump is the result of the battery contactor opening the
> alternator "B" lead is still connected to the main bus of the aircraft and
> the load dump spike is passed on to the rest of the acft electronics. The
> bus voltage will rise until it supports the peak dump current and that can
> be shorted components. This applies to both internal and external
> regulators.
>
> I hope to test and suggest a solution to two different concerns.
>
> First protection of the alternator regulator from a load dump. Appears to
be
> fairly simple At least to keep the pulse under 40v.
>
> The second concern is where the battery is being charged and is suddenly
> disconnected but the "B" lead is still connected to the main bus. Also the
> objective is to keep the peak voyage under 30 V and ideally under 20 V.
> There is a design being considered that may accomplish that is simple and
> thus low cost.
>
> As I have mentioned in a past post I am working with another electronics
> expert off line and the results will be posted when there is real data to
be
> shown.
>
> Thus its time to go silent for a while and spend the resulting time
working.
>
> Paul
>
>
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