Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:21 AM - Re: Runaway stab trim prevention (Kevin Horton)
2. 05:18 AM - Re: RCT-3 crimper (C J Heitman)
3. 05:56 AM - Re: Communtator and slip ring finishing practices (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: Turn coordinator (Cy Galley)
5. 06:02 AM - Re: FW: Grounding Power outlets (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:07 AM - Re: RCT-3 crimper (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: Battery dumps (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 06:38 AM - 3 bulb Nav light wiring question (Charlie Kuss)
9. 06:41 AM - ELT = Transponder Antenna (Don Boardman)
10. 07:17 AM - Re: Re: Turn coordinator (Lowell Fitt)
11. 07:35 AM - Source for Garmin GPS 400 antenna (GT)
12. 08:02 AM - Re: ELT = Transponder Antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 08:04 AM - Re: FW: Grounding Power outlets (Chad Robinson)
14. 08:06 AM - Re: 3 bulb Nav light wiring question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: Turn coordinator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 08:16 AM - Re: ELT = Transponder Antenna (Matt Prather)
17. 08:27 AM - Re: Source for Garmin GPS 400 antenna (flyv35b)
18. 10:34 AM - Mic and Phone jacks (Darwin N. Barrie)
19. 10:56 AM - Re: Mic and Phone jacks (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 11:09 AM - Re: Mic and Phone jacks (Darwin N. Barrie)
21. 12:37 PM - Re: Re: Communtator and slip ring finishing practices (Rick Girard)
22. 01:13 PM - Re: Re: Communtator and slip ring finishing practices (Matt Prather)
23. 08:29 PM - [PLEASE READ] Virus Laden Spam Purports To Be From Matronics... (dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle))
24. 08:32 PM - ELT antenna with floats (Fergus Kyle)
25. 08:46 PM - More on the electrical robustness of the XCOM 760 (Rob W M Shipley)
26. 08:53 PM - Re: [PLEASE READ] Virus Laden Spam Purports To Be From Matronics... (Dan Branstrom)
27. 11:02 PM - Sky-Tec starter (Troy Scott)
28. 11:12 PM - mother of all electrical systems (Troy Scott)
29. 11:41 PM - Load dump TVS (Paul Messinger)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Runaway stab trim prevention |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
At 23:00 -0500 2/3/04, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bryan hooks"
><hook3607@bellsouth.net>
>
>Been off the list for a couple of bit.
>
>Sorry to have caused such an issue 'bout the runaway stab trim thing.
>Glad to hear that full trim at cruise is not that big a deal. I just
>posed the question for two reasons: (1) I don't have any RV experience
>yet and didn't know that it was really a non-event, and (2) the airplane
>I fly at work can kill you (and actually has) if the trim runs away.and
>that's with a stab trim cut-out switch within reach of both pilots. Now
>don't get me wrong, I never believed this would be a BIG problem in an
>RV, but I thought it could be an irritating event that might be
>prevented if there was something that could be done easily and cheaply
>to prevent it. Maybe I'll just remember where that ole trim circuit
>breaker is located.
>
>Bryan Hooks
>RV7A, slow
Well, runaway trim is quite different depending on whether the
aircraft has stab trim (i.e. the angle of incidence of the stab is
changed by the trim system) or an elevator trim tab. Stab trim
runaways can be very dangerous, as you can get in a situation where
you no longer have enough pitch authority in one direction. The
elevator may simply not be big enough to counter the pitching moment
created by the stab which has gone full travel.
If we have elevator trim tabs, like on your RV-7A, then we don't have
a problem of pitch authority. The only questions are how high the
stick force will be. But if you apply enough stick force you will
always be able to get enough pitch authority. In general, people who
have flight tested RVs to see the effect of trim runaways have
reported high, but manageable stick forces at high speed. The stick
forces lighten up as you slow down. Depending on how fast your trim
servo moves, it could get a bit exciting for a few seconds while you
figure out what is going on.
I've got a Matronics Speed Governor to slow my trim down, to give me
a bit more time to react. I've also got a button on my stick that
will kill power to the trim and wing leveler servos if I hold it
down. I can then reach over and turn off the trim power on the side
console.
So, if we are talking about RVs, don't talk about stab trim runaways,
as they don't exist, unless you have made a major design change.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 2
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "C J Heitman" <cjh@execpc.com>
Bob,
I had the same problem as Ted with the RCT-3 crimper. Mine actually cut
several pins into 2 pieces when attempting to make crimps. I got the pins
from B&C as well as the tool so I'm quite sure I was using the correct
combination of pins and crimper. I didn't have very many pins to do, so I
just soldered them and made sure that I had a good strain relief on the
wires. On my RCT-3 crimper, the 4 crimping "pins" in the tool touch each
other before the ratchet mechanism will allow the tool to open. Is there an
adjustment for stroke length on this crimper?
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME
http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
-----Original Message-----
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ted Lemen" <tedlem@ecentral.com>
>
>We purchased several crimpers from B&C and included was the RCT-3. It is
>supposed to be for the D sub pins but when you start clamping down on the
>pin, you can't release it until you have squeezed all of the way down
>and that just about ruins the pin. By the time you can release it the
>opening is really small I have used the hex crimper using the .043 slot
>which seems to work alright.
I am mystified by your comments. The RCT-3 tool IS for machined
D-sub pins and we've sold hundreds of these tools. I give away
a half dozen or so at each weekend seminar. I've not seen or
heard of the problem you describe.
Here's a d-sub pin I just installed with an RCT-3 from my
own toolbox:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/RCT-3_Male.jpg
---
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Communtator and slip ring finishing practices |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:12 PM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net>
>
>I took the "Ford" alternator out of my spam can to a local alternator repair
>shop. I watched him"clean" the commutator. When he first put it on the
>lathe I thought this was great, he would clean it up and make it truly
>round. I was shocked when he picked up some emory cloth turned on the lathe
>and used the cloth to "clean" the commutator. Said that's standard industry
>practice, how he's done it for 30yrs...
>
>He only charged me a couple dollars for the new brushes and "cleaning" and
>told me it should outlast my airboat...:)
Interesting. I'll run that by my friends out at
Electromech to see if there are any new thoughts
about it. It's been more than 20 years since I
worked there.
Did a little poking around on the 'net and found
this page that speaks to sheet abrasives:
http://www.michaelholigan.com/Departments/HowTo/HowToPage.asp?ts_id=abrasive
I note that "crocus cloth" as a very fine grit
only. Any machining activity that removes metal
is a cutting action. Smoothness of the final
finish is a function of how small the cuts are.
Jewelers rouge is used to produce a high polish
on metals but must be in fact, an abrasive of
exceedingly small size. The "scratches" it leaves
behind are so closely spaced that rays of light
impinging upon the surface are reflected with
minimal scatter. This means that spacing of
the "scratches" are small with respect to
wavelength of light.
It may be that your friend in the overhaul shop
has identified an acquired a cloth with very
fine grit that produces a polish with finer
striations than his lath tool bit . . . if so,
his practice may have some value commensurate with
his perceptions.
I'll ask around.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Turn coordinator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Big difference between the commutator on a generator, even an alternator and
the commutator on a very tiny high speed dc-motor on a turn coordinator.
Brushes on the automotive gen and alt are very massive and are designed to
work in a hostile environment. The TC on the other hand a very small and
live in a semi-sealed situation where dirt and loose particles are a big
problem. As one of us it prone to say... "It all depends!"
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Turn coordinator
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net>
>
> I took the "Ford" alternator out of my spam can to a local alternator
repair
> shop. I watched him"clean" the commutator. When he first put it on the
> lathe I thought this was great, he would clean it up and make it truly
> round. I was shocked when he picked up some emory cloth turned on the
lathe
> and used the cloth to "clean" the commutator. Said that's standard
industry
> practice, how he's done it for 30yrs...
>
> He only charged me a couple dollars for the new brushes and "cleaning" and
> told me it should outlast my airboat...:)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Dabusmith@aol.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Turn coordinator
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
> >
> > >> Touching a commutator . . . particularly a fine-motor
> > commutator with anything other than cleaning solvent and soft wipe
> > will put microgrooves in the copper surface that will degrade brush
> > life.
> >
> > That is lucky for me. I cleaned mine with rubbing alcohol and Q-tip. It
is
> > working normal again. I didn't have any fine abrasive handy. Grateful
for
> the
> > info.
> >
> > Dave Smith
> > Graham WA.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Grounding Power outlets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:04 PM 3/2/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
>
>Hi Bob and All,
>
>I am installing a power outlet (Cigar lighter) at each of the four seating
>areas in my Moose. As I was running wire today and intending on bringing the
>ground for the units back to the panel ground block I realized that the
>units were also grounded via the airframe because of there construction.
>
>What course of action is best?
>
>Simply use the airframes local ground.
>
>Leave the unit grounded to the airframe and also run the ground wire to the
>PNL ground.
>
>Manage to insulate the body of the unit from the airframe (a pain) and run a
>ground wire to the PNL ground.
I presume you plan to offer these outlets to passengers
for use of automotive power adapters for personal electronics.
These devices are not strong antagonist. Further, the standard
bus noises are going to be stronger than any ground-loop
generated noises so local grounding will be fine.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:18 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "C J Heitman" <cjh@execpc.com>
>
>Bob,
>
>I had the same problem as Ted with the RCT-3 crimper. Mine actually cut
>several pins into 2 pieces when attempting to make crimps. I got the pins
>from B&C as well as the tool so I'm quite sure I was using the correct
>combination of pins and crimper. I didn't have very many pins to do, so I
>just soldered them and made sure that I had a good strain relief on the
>wires. On my RCT-3 crimper, the 4 crimping "pins" in the tool touch each
>other before the ratchet mechanism will allow the tool to open. Is there an
>adjustment for stroke length on this crimper?
No, it's preset. You should contact B&C about these tools. I'll
have some conversation with them too. It appears that there may
be some production variation in the die strokes that needs to
be inspected. This is easy to do with a go/no-go gage (close the
tool on a specific size drill or piano wire. It should grab one
size while allowing a smaller one to slip free.
It may be that B&C needs to do receiving inspection on the tools.
This is the first I've hard of problems with this tool I'm
glad you brought it up. It needs to be fixed.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Battery dumps |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:25 PM 3/2/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> > The current DO-160 spike test calls for a 300 volt peak pulse delivered
> > in 10 microsecond through a 50 ohm source impedance. This spike is
>easily
> > filtered off with 10 uF input filter cap.
> >
> > The DO-160 abnormal surge test of 40v for 100 mS is intended to cover
> > all expected stresses including load or battery dump.
>
>The spike test needs to include rise time. If the rise time is fast enough,
>a 10MFD electrolytic may have a sufficiently high internal series resistance
>to act more like a resistor than a cap.
>
>So, while 10 mfd may be sufficient, just any 10 mfd cap may not be.In the
>aerospace world we used a tantalum cap along with a much smaller HV cap to
>catch the fast spikes.
It's 10 uS, half-sine measured at the base. Not exceedingly
fast. A tantalum wiped it out quite effectively.
>The load dump case of 40V for 100 MS is both lower V and shorter duration
>than specified for automotive load dump suppression devices.
Yes. I presume that the RTCA committee researched real
risks on airplanes and arrived at their conclusions based
on 99th percentile stresses + some headroom. Not being
privy to RTCA's deliberations, it seems useful to do
some informative studies of our own. However, given that RTCA
is not a government operation nor does it have any products to
sell, I am less skeptical of RTCA pronouncements than those
of any other body . . . except of course, you and I.
>I intend to test various load dump currents from 10 to at least 40 amps in
>sudden load reduction along with 0 thru 20 amps non dumped load (the
>electrical system)
>
>I have not heard of 40V and 100 ms being something avionics are designed to
>withstand. That sure is much harder to design to than a simple input cap.
>
>If the load dump is the result of the battery contactor opening the
>alternator "B" lead is still connected to the main bus of the aircraft and
>the load dump spike is passed on to the rest of the acft electronics. The
>bus voltage will rise until it supports the peak dump current and that can
>be shorted components. This applies to both internal and external
>regulators.
Sure . . . and it may be that the 40v figure was arrived at
by assuming some minimal steady state load by system
accessories.
>I hope to test and suggest a solution to two different concerns.
>
>First protection of the alternator regulator from a load dump. Appears to be
>fairly simple At least to keep the pulse under 40v.
>
>The second concern is where the battery is being charged and is suddenly
>disconnected but the "B" lead is still connected to the main bus. Also the
>objective is to keep the peak voyage under 30 V and ideally under 20 V.
>There is a design being considered that may accomplish that is simple and
>thus low cost.
That would be great.
>As I have mentioned in a past post I am working with another electronics
>expert off line and the results will be posted when there is real data to be
>shown.
>
>Thus its time to go silent for a while and spend the resulting time working.
Shucks Paul, we're having so much fun. Ya mean we gotta
go off and do some real work? Glad I don't work for you, I'll
bet you're a real pain-in-the-arse around the shop :-)
Lets do some good work!
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | 3 bulb Nav light wiring question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Bob & Listers,
I was using AutoCAD and Bob's templates last night to sketch out my navigation
light circuit. I will be using 2 Grimes position lamps installed in the wing
tips of my RV-8A. I will also have a white position/strobe lamp (Whelen A500A)
installed in the rear of the rudder tip.
This presents a dilemma. I need to know how much each of these bulbs draw. My
fuzzy memory "thinks" it's around 2-3 amps each. This would mean Appox. 7-10 amps
going through a single 1-3 style switch and fuse. This would necessitate using
18 or even 16 AWG wire throughout the circuit. This circuit has some of the
longest wiring runs on my 8A (to the tail and both wing tips)
With 3 lamps instead of 2, I think I'm going to have to up size the wire above
the 18 AWG shown in Bob's template. I'm ASSuming :-0 that these bulbs have the
same sort of inrush current upon start up that other incandescent bulbs have??
The problem is that I need to size the supply wire between the fuse and the
switch to carry the load of all 3 bulbs.
If I run all three bulbs off of 1 switch and fuse circuit, I'll need to increase
the wire size to each bulb above that which is needed to carry current to that
individual bulb. This would be necessary to insure that these wires would
not overheat before the circuit fuse would blow. I'll have to purchase additional
wire to do this.
I could down size the wire from the switch to each bulb (20AWG) and install a
5 amp fuse between the switch and the output wires. This seems really clunky &
clumsy to me. I prefer to keep all the fuses in the fuse block.
The third option would be to use a 3-2 (triple pole, single throw ON/OFF) style
switch and supply each bulb of the circuit independently of the others. This
would allow use of smaller 20AWG wire (which I already have in various colors).
This would require 3 separate fuses. I'm using 2 of Bussman's new model 15710
ATO style fuse blocks. Because this unit has 20 fuse circuits in the physical
space that the standard 10 fuse unit has, I have enough extra fuse slots to
accommodate this. I'm mounting the main fuse block in my right side mid cabin
cover. The wire run from the fuse block to all my lighting switches will be less
than 15 inches, so the weight of the 2 extra supply wires is negligible.
I am open to comments and suggestions. Are there any holes in my ideas? Any better
solutions? I have AutoCAD files of this circuit available "off list".
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A wiring
staying up WAY to late at night playing with AutoCAD! :-)
Message 9
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| Subject: | ELT = Transponder Antenna |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
Hi Guys,
Thanks for your help and thoughts on ELT antenna location. When I read the
first response that it should be on top, I said to myself, WHAT! I have
never heard of such a thing.
You know after 12 hours in the shop crawling around an airframe and under a
panel I guess my body and mind get a little mushy.
I should have said TRANSPONDER ANTENNA.
I did notice that one person picked up on my mistake, thanks. I am not sure
if the logistics of getting the antenna into the floats is practical.
OK THE ORIGINAL POST WITH TRANSPONDER ANTENNA.
I am mounting the short transponder antenna on the belly of my metal Moose.
It's center line is a bit cluttered with push pulls, cables etc. I would
like to mount it about a foot off center.
My question concerns the 3500 amphib Aerocet fiberglass floats sitting under
the airplane. Do floats "block" the signal to and from the antenna? My guess
is that aluminum floats would. What about ones made of fiberglass?
Is there a better option for mounting an transponder antenna given floats?
Thanks,
Don B.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Turn coordinator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
I guess, I started this thread and probably should clarify couple of few
things. First the Turn Coordinator in question is a product of China - non
certified. Unfortunately, that should give a hint as to the commutator
finishing process the unit got in the factory. When two units work
approximately 100 hours since new then fail, I believe it suggests a
fundamental problem with the unit. Reinforced when I am essentially brushed
off by the distributor and told that the commutator needs cleaning and I can
do it myself. That sort of suggests to me a volume of service needs that
they don't want to deal with.
Anyway, I did at first as Bob suggests, simply a cleaning with a solvent
being careful to remove all debris from the grooves. It lasted probably 50
hours. When I did it the second time, I used the crocus cloth.
Now this has been a year since I did this, but as I recall the commutator
had circumferential grooves on it and I got the impression that the metal
was soft, as in an annealed state.
I hope this doesn't sound like product bashing as I am quite pleased with
the unit when it is functioning and the cleaning took an hour at best from
panel to panel.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Turn coordinator
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Big difference between the commutator on a generator, even an alternator
and
> the commutator on a very tiny high speed dc-motor on a turn coordinator.
> Brushes on the automotive gen and alt are very massive and are designed to
> work in a hostile environment. The TC on the other hand a very small and
> live in a semi-sealed situation where dirt and loose particles are a big
> problem. As one of us it prone to say... "It all depends!"
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org
>
> Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Turn coordinator
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net>
> >
> > I took the "Ford" alternator out of my spam can to a local alternator
> repair
> > shop. I watched him"clean" the commutator. When he first put it on the
> > lathe I thought this was great, he would clean it up and make it truly
> > round. I was shocked when he picked up some emory cloth turned on the
> lathe
> > and used the cloth to "clean" the commutator. Said that's standard
> industry
> > practice, how he's done it for 30yrs...
> >
> > He only charged me a couple dollars for the new brushes and "cleaning"
and
> > told me it should outlast my airboat...:)
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Dabusmith@aol.com>
> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Turn coordinator
> >
> >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
> > >
> > > >> Touching a commutator . . . particularly a fine-motor
> > > commutator with anything other than cleaning solvent and soft wipe
> > > will put microgrooves in the copper surface that will degrade brush
> > > life.
> > >
> > > That is lucky for me. I cleaned mine with rubbing alcohol and Q-tip.
It
> is
> > > working normal again. I didn't have any fine abrasive handy. Grateful
> for
> > the
> > > info.
> > >
> > > Dave Smith
> > > Graham WA.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Source for Garmin GPS 400 antenna |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "GT" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Hi Bob and all,
Do you have any advice as to what to choose for a Garmin GPS 400 antenna ?
The Garmin 400 series installation manual calls for a Garmin GA 56 GPS
antenna or an antenna meeting particular requirements.
The antennas meeting those requirement are usually big white streamlined
things.
As our intention is to mount the antenna on the glareshield, I would like to
find a less bulky and breferably dark coloured model.
I have already seen such models with other Garmin GPS. Do you know if such
an antenna could work with the 400 model ?
Thanks in advance,
Regards,
Gilles
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: ELT = Transponder Antenna |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>
>OK THE ORIGINAL POST WITH TRANSPONDER ANTENNA.
>
>I am mounting the short transponder antenna on the belly of my metal Moose.
>It's center line is a bit cluttered with push pulls, cables etc. I would
>like to mount it about a foot off center.
>
>My question concerns the 3500 amphib Aerocet fiberglass floats sitting under
>the airplane. Do floats "block" the signal to and from the antenna? My guess
>is that aluminum floats would. What about ones made of fiberglass?
>
>Is there a better option for mounting an transponder antenna given floats?
The floats will have little effect on transponder performance.
Similarly, off-centerline mounting is equally insignificant.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Grounding Power outlets |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chad Robinson <crobinson@rfgonline.com>
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 11:04 PM 3/2/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
>>
>>Hi Bob and All,
>>
>>I am installing a power outlet (Cigar lighter) at each of the four seating
>>areas in my Moose. As I was running wire today and intending on bringing the
>>ground for the units back to the panel ground block I realized that the
>>units were also grounded via the airframe because of there construction.
>>
>>What course of action is best?
>>
>>Simply use the airframes local ground.
>>
>>Leave the unit grounded to the airframe and also run the ground wire to the
>>PNL ground.
>>
>>Manage to insulate the body of the unit from the airframe (a pain) and run a
>>ground wire to the PNL ground.
>
>
> I presume you plan to offer these outlets to passengers
> for use of automotive power adapters for personal electronics.
> These devices are not strong antagonist. Further, the standard
> bus noises are going to be stronger than any ground-loop
> generated noises so local grounding will be fine.
Just be careful of one thing. If you have a passenger plug in, say, an MP3
player, and then hook this to an AUX-in jack on your panel intercom, THAT
could create a ground loop that would allow the audio signal to pick up all
sorts of stray signals. This is the most common source of alternator whine in
add-on MP3 player installations in cars. Keep the passenger's device isolated
from the rest of the ship, except this power supply, and it won't know the
difference.
Regards,
Chad
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 3 bulb Nav light wiring question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:37 AM 3/3/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
>
>Bob & Listers,
> I was using AutoCAD and Bob's templates last night to sketch out my
> navigation light circuit. I will be using 2 Grimes position lamps
> installed in the wing tips of my RV-8A. I will also have a white
> position/strobe lamp (Whelen A500A) installed in the rear of the rudder tip.
> This presents a dilemma. I need to know how much each of these bulbs
> draw. My fuzzy memory "thinks" it's around 2-3 amps each.
2A each
> This would mean Appox. 7-10 amps going through a single 1-3 style switch
> and fuse.
6A
> This would necessitate using 18 or even 16 AWG wire throughout the
> circuit. This circuit has some of the longest wiring runs on my 8A (to
> the tail and both wing tips)
> With 3 lamps instead of 2, I think I'm going to have to up size the wire
> above the 18 AWG shown in Bob's template. I'm ASSuming :-0 that these
> bulbs have the same sort of inrush current upon start up that other
> incandescent bulbs have?? The problem is that I need to size the supply
> wire between the fuse and the switch to carry the load of all 3 bulbs.
20AWG is adequate from a current perspective for both total
current (fuse to switch) and certainly for individual currents
(switch to each lamp).
> If I run all three bulbs off of 1 switch and fuse circuit, I'll need to
> increase the wire size to each bulb above that which is needed to carry
> current to that individual bulb. This would be necessary to insure that
> these wires would not overheat before the circuit fuse would blow. I'll
> have to purchase additional wire to do this.
> I could down size the wire from the switch to each bulb (20AWG) and
> install a 5 amp fuse between the switch and the output wires. This seems
> really clunky & clumsy to me. I prefer to keep all the fuses in the fuse block.
> The third option would be to use a 3-2 (triple pole, single throw
> ON/OFF) style switch and supply each bulb of the circuit independently of
> the others. This would allow use of smaller 20AWG wire (which I already
> have in various colors). This would require 3 separate fuses. I'm using 2
> of Bussman's new model 15710 ATO style fuse blocks. Because this unit has
> 20 fuse circuits in the physical space that the standard 10 fuse unit
> has, I have enough extra fuse slots to accommodate this. I'm mounting the
> main fuse block in my right side mid cabin cover. The wire run from the
> fuse block to all my lighting switches will be less than 15 inches, so
> the weight of the 2 extra supply wires is negligible.
>
> I am open to comments and suggestions. Are there any holes in my ideas?
> Any better solutions? I have AutoCAD files of this circuit available "off
> list".
One 7A fuse and 20AWG wire is fine.
>Charlie Kuss
>RV-8A wiring
>staying up WAY to late at night playing with AutoCAD! :-)
Good for you!! That's a truly amazing hunk of software.
Don't know how I got along in the BA years (before Autocad).
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Turn coordinator |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:15 AM 3/3/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
>I guess, I started this thread and probably should clarify couple of few
>things. First the Turn Coordinator in question is a product of China - non
>certified. Unfortunately, that should give a hint as to the commutator
>finishing process the unit got in the factory. When two units work
>approximately 100 hours since new then fail, I believe it suggests a
>fundamental problem with the unit. Reinforced when I am essentially brushed
>off by the distributor and told that the commutator needs cleaning and I can
>do it myself. That sort of suggests to me a volume of service needs that
>they don't want to deal with.
>
>Anyway, I did at first as Bob suggests, simply a cleaning with a solvent
>being careful to remove all debris from the grooves. It lasted probably 50
>hours. When I did it the second time, I used the crocus cloth.
>
>Now this has been a year since I did this, but as I recall the commutator
>had circumferential grooves on it and I got the impression that the metal
>was soft, as in an annealed state.
>
>I hope this doesn't sound like product bashing as I am quite pleased with
>the unit when it is functioning and the cleaning took an hour at best from
>panel to panel.
Good data. Thanks!
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: ELT = Transponder Antenna |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Oh! Well, that is a different issue...
As long as none of the float rigging runs close to the antenna
(maybe no closer than 10 inches), it shouldn't be a problem.
You certainly can mount the transponder antenna inside a glass
float. However I don't think I would. I see a couple of issues. The
first is that you might at some point decide to put your airplane one
wheels.
The second issue is one of robustness. Mounting the antenna
down there requires that you run the coax cable down one of the
gear legs. Its kind of a long run, through a somewhat harsh
environment. Do you have the option of running it inside one of
the gear legs? Further, any connections that you make will have
a good chance of being contaminated by water. Water provides
an oppertunity for shorts and corrosion.
Finally, to get good performance from within the float, you will either
have to pick a center fed dipole antenna, or provide a ground plane
for the standard metal-shorty-with-ball. The belly of the airplane
makes a perfectly good ground plane on its own.
Mounting off-center shouldn't be a problem.
Matt-
N34RD
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Don Boardman
> <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> Thanks for your help and thoughts on ELT antenna location. When I read
> the first response that it should be on top, I said to myself, WHAT! I
> have never heard of such a thing.
>
> You know after 12 hours in the shop crawling around an airframe and
> under a panel I guess my body and mind get a little mushy.
>
> I should have said TRANSPONDER ANTENNA.
>
> I did notice that one person picked up on my mistake, thanks. I am not
> sure if the logistics of getting the antenna into the floats is
> practical.
>
> OK THE ORIGINAL POST WITH TRANSPONDER ANTENNA.
>
> I am mounting the short transponder antenna on the belly of my metal
> Moose. It's center line is a bit cluttered with push pulls, cables etc.
> I would like to mount it about a foot off center.
>
> My question concerns the 3500 amphib Aerocet fiberglass floats sitting
> under the airplane. Do floats "block" the signal to and from the
> antenna? My guess is that aluminum floats would. What about ones made of
> fiberglass?
>
> Is there a better option for mounting an transponder antenna given
> floats?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Don B.
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Source for Garmin GPS 400 antenna |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
> The antennas meeting those requirement are usually big white streamlined
> things.
> As our intention is to mount the antenna on the glareshield, I would like
to
> find a less bulky and preferably dark colored model.
I covered a white GPS antenna with black fabric years ago because the white
reflected in the windshield badly. It worked fine.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "GT" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Source for Garmin GPS 400 antenna
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "GT"
<Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
>
> Hi Bob and all,
>
> Do you have any advice as to what to choose for a Garmin GPS 400 antenna ?
> The Garmin 400 series installation manual calls for a Garmin GA 56 GPS
> antenna or an antenna meeting particular requirements.
> The antennas meeting those requirement are usually big white streamlined
> things.
> As our intention is to mount the antenna on the glareshield, I would like
to
> find a less bulky and breferably dark coloured model.
> I have already seen such models with other Garmin GPS. Do you know if such
> an antenna could work with the 400 model ?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Regards,
>
> Gilles
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Mic and Phone jacks |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
Hi All,
Just finished wiring the mic and phone jacks and need to know the order of the
washers that accompanied the units.
I realize the goal is to isolate the unit from the mounting fixture but there are
three washers. One is a shouldered fiber washer (black), one is a standard
fiber washer (tan) and there is a thin metal washer.
Thanks in advance.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Mic and Phone jacks |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:33 AM 3/3/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
>
>Hi All,
>
>Just finished wiring the mic and phone jacks and need to know the order of
>the washers that accompanied the units.
>
>I realize the goal is to isolate the unit from the mounting fixture but
>there are three washers. One is a shouldered fiber washer (black), one is
>a standard fiber washer (tan) and there is a thin metal washer.
The insulating washers can go on in any order. I prefer
to put the shoulder washer on the jack. Install jack in mounting
hole and install the flat insulating washer next. The flat metal
washer goes next and finally the nut.
Bob . . .
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Mic and Phone jacks |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
Thanks for the quick reply, no down time on installation!!!!
Darwin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mic and Phone jacks
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 11:33 AM 3/3/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie"
<ktlkrn@cox.net>
> >
> >Hi All,
> >
> >Just finished wiring the mic and phone jacks and need to know the order
of
> >the washers that accompanied the units.
> >
> >I realize the goal is to isolate the unit from the mounting fixture but
> >there are three washers. One is a shouldered fiber washer (black), one is
> >a standard fiber washer (tan) and there is a thin metal washer.
>
> The insulating washers can go on in any order. I prefer
> to put the shoulder washer on the jack. Install jack in mounting
> hole and install the flat insulating washer next. The flat metal
> washer goes next and finally the nut.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Communtator and slip ring finishing practices |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rick Girard <fly.ez@verizon.net>
Bob, When I was a young apprentice at Cessna's Pawnee plant in the
tooling machine shop I fixed many a worn out armature for the shops and
the last thing done was always to polish the commutator with fine emory
cloth just as Ned saw done. One added caveat, though. The armature
should always be run between centers and not just chucked up. Centers on
the head and tail stock of the lathe should be dead on to the spin axis
of the lathe while the chuck might be off a thousandth or two. This tiny
error in runout (it gets doubled since the error is on the radius) is
enough to cause premature wear of the brushes and arcing as the brushes
are pushed in and out of their holders.
Rick Girard
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Communtator and slip ring finishing practices |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Its tips like this (from people that have actually used them) that
make this list really useful....
Thanks,
Matt-
N34RD
do not archive
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rick Girard
> <fly.ez@verizon.net>
>
> Bob, When I was a young apprentice at Cessna's Pawnee plant in the
> tooling machine shop I fixed many a worn out armature for the shops and
> the last thing done was always to polish the commutator with fine emory
> cloth just as Ned saw done. One added caveat, though. The armature
> should always be run between centers and not just chucked up. Centers on
> the head and tail stock of the lathe should be dead on to the spin axis
> of the lathe while the chuck might be off a thousandth or two. This
> tiny error in runout (it gets doubled since the error is on the radius)
> is enough to cause premature wear of the brushes and arcing as the
> brushes are pushed in and out of their holders.
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
Message 23
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DNA: not not archive
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] Virus Laden Spam Purports To Be From |
Matronics...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com (Matt Dralle)
Dear Listers,
First let me say that I normally don't condone the sharing of warnings
about Internet viruses on the Matronics Email Lists. I don't want to
start a storm of discussion regarding computer viruses on the Lists, so
please just note the information below and refrain from commenting to
the List. The circumstances I describe below are disturbing enough
that I felt an explanation is necessary. That being said...
There is a new email-bourne virus running rampant on the Internet that
is cleverly disguising itself as legitimate email warning of such
things as:
"your email account is disabled because of unauthorized access"
"Some of our clients complained about the spam (negative e-mail
content) outgoing from your e-mail account"
"Probably, you have been infected by a proxy-relay trojan server. In
order to keep your computer safe, follow the instructions."
"Our main mailing server will be temporary unavailable for next two
days, to continue receiving mail in these days you have to
configure our free auto-forwarding service."
All of these messages include an attachment that you are instructed to
click upon to "Get more information", "clean the virus from your
system", or "check your system for infections".
These enclosures all contain a virus that will infect your system and
propagate even more copies of the original message.
The disturbing part of these messages is that they appear to be coming
from very legitimate addresses and have very legitimate, convincing
dialog. For example, I have received a number of them today that
appear to be from "support@matronics.com", "management@matronics.com",
"administration@matronics.com", and "staff@matronics.com".
The text of the messages seems believable enough, and given the forged
source address, seem even more legitimate.
Please be assured that no one at Matronics.com will be sending you
these kinds of messages. If you receive one, it is a spam/virus that
has forged headers and was sent to you from someone other than
Matronics. Delete the message and the attachment promptly. Invest in
a copy of Norton Antivirus and keep the definitions up dated on a daily
basis.
Again, I want to stress that I *DO NOT* want a big discussion of
viruses on the Matronics Email Lists. Please do not reply to this
email with any comments. You may write to me directly at
dralle@matronics.com if you wish, but do not include the List.
Since many of these appear to come from matronics.com, I wanted to
assure everyone that Matronics wasn't the real source of these messages.
Let's be careful out there and keep those virus definitions up to date!
Today alone, the Matronics spam filter and virus blocking appliance
has filtered out 11,550 spam messages and 375 viruses! That's just in
an 18 hour period!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 24
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| Subject: | ELT antenna with floats |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
I note the thread and its follow-ups. The title recalls the worst
combination in aviation, as a flight at altitude over Thunder Bay and
Lake-of-the-Woods area ALWAYS produced an ELT "dooey-dooey-dooey" on
121.5MHz which gave us transport jocks great practice in guessing which lake
the ELT was on. It got to be known as dooey-dooey alley.
It's not clear which side of the 'plane the ELT antenna is on,
except that it should be on the top side of the wreck - your choice of
course. MUCH more important is listening to 121.5 after each flight to be
sure it ain't you who whapped the waves on landing. After checking in at
destination with the airline, I had to change fields and go looking for the
dooey-dooey with the airworks.
Ferg
Message 25
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| Subject: | More on the electrical robustness of the XCOM 760 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" <rob@robsglass.com>
My question to MCP was motivated by my own interest in possibly buying this com.
It is built by a team of engineers at least some of whom were originally involved
in the Microair - hence the reference to this.
My email .........
Hi Michael,
A current thread on the Aeroelectric list at the moment is the risk of load dumps
if a generator is disconnected whilst under load. As part of this discussion
the tolerance of different avionics to withstand voltage excursions has been
of interest.
The prevailing certified standard for this is DO 160 (US) and it was mentioned
that the Microair falls well short of this.
Could you comment on the XCOM760 and whether it meets the DO 160 levels of resistance
and if not what is the level of voltage/time resistance designed into the
radio?
Rob
From Michael Coates <mcoates@mcp.com.au
>From our engineer..... hopefully this answers your question.... its all rocket
science to me so i had to refer it to those in the know. Thanks Michael
Ken Luxford wrote:
Michael,
While the nominal maximum input voltage of the XCOM760 is 16 volts, all of the
components in the DC input filter are rated at 35 volts. The onboard 10V regulator
has a maximum input voltage of 37 volts and the onboard 5V regulator has
a maximum input voltage of 45 volts.
The comments regarding TVS (Transient Voltage Suppressors) are valid and I have
had personal experience of them failing in the manner described.
Perhaps Bob would comment on how satisfactory a level of protection this might
be.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: [PLEASE READ] Virus Laden Spam Purports To Be From |
Matronics...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Branstrom" <danbranstrom@verizon.net>
Thanks Matt,
I've been deleting a few from other sources today. Somebody's pulling some
crap. I never opened them, just sent them to the deletion vortex.
Dan
Message 27
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" <tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
Bob,
Since I wrote that post in early January, I've made great progress in my
electrical system understanding and planning, mostly due to what I've
learned from your book and this forum. Also, the Sky-Tec company has
graciously replaced my PM starter with their newer Inline starter, at a very
reasonable price for the swap. The inrush current for this new-design
starter promises to be about 100 amps less than the PM version.
Regards,
Troy Scott
Message 28
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| Subject: | mother of all electrical systems |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" <tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
Bob,
Thanks for your thoughts!
Regards,
Troy Scott
do not archive
Message 29
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
As I promised here is the device I mentioned a several weeks ago as being
designed specifically for alternator load dump.
LDP24A and the data sheet can be found by searching
at www.st.com
An interesting related app note AN554 is also at the st site. Provides
detailed design info!
www.findchips.com will find dist stock for the LDP24A
Paul
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