Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:00 AM - Re: manual battery switch (Joel Harding)
2. 08:54 AM - Re: Question on Z-13 & firewall penetration (Mark Steitle)
3. 09:27 AM - Re: Question on Z-13 & firewall penetration ('Scott Richardson')
4. 09:31 AM - Re: 430 troubleshooting (GMC)
5. 10:23 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 38 Msgs - 03/09/04 (Ted Lemen)
6. 10:58 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 38 Msgs - 03/09/04 (Rob Housman)
7. 11:28 AM - Re: Question on Z-13 & firewall penetration (Terry Watson)
8. 12:03 PM - Re: 430 troubleshooting (Joel Harding)
9. 12:41 PM - Columbia 350 electrical system (Carl Coulter)
10. 01:13 PM - Battery contact screws (Werner Schneider)
11. 01:34 PM - Re: Adhesives and ground contact (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 01:36 PM - Re: comm antenna bad? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 01:41 PM - Re: Battery contact screws (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 02:09 PM - Re: Battery contact screws (Werner Schneider)
15. 02:20 PM - Re: Battery contact screws (John Schroeder)
16. 02:26 PM - Audio Isolation Amplifier in my intercom system (Jordan Grant)
17. 02:28 PM - Re: Relay's for warning lights (BillRVSIX@aol.com)
18. 04:45 PM - Re: Audio Isolation Amplifier in my intercom system (Jordan Grant)
19. 07:30 PM - Re: Battery contact screws (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 07:32 PM - Re: Battery contact screws (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: manual battery switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joel Harding <cajole76@ispwest.com>
The day finally arrived to try my 430 com radio. It sends and
receives okay, but from inside my shop my handheld pulls in aircraft on
a local center freq that the 430 won't----probably a bad sign. Where
would be a good place to start? Antenna grounding?
JoelHarding
Message 2
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| Subject: | Question on Z-13 & firewall penetration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Steitle <msteitle@mail.utexas.edu>
>Pegasus Auto Racing (www.pegasusautoracing.com) has this item, p/n 4570
>for $10.99. Ref. page 46 of their online catalog.
>http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pdfs/046.pdf
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "'Scott Richardson'"
><scott_m_richardson@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Hi George,
>
>I think I found the product:
>Cole-Hersee 46211-01 Insulated Battery Feeder Stud
>http://www.colehersee.com/pdf/master_cat/T137%20Battery.PDF (bottom of
>page)
>
>That does look like what I was thinking of. The thing I haven't found
>is a location (on the web at least) to purchase it. Do you remember
>where you got it and roughly what price you paid? Thanks.
>
>Scott
Message 3
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| Subject: | Question on Z-13 & firewall penetration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "'Scott Richardson'" <scott_m_richardson@sbcglobal.net>
Thanks Mark, that's another reason that this list is so useful!
I also emailed the local Cole-Hersee distributor and he gave me a
pointer to a local store here in San Jose, CA where I am that could get
them for about the same price. (Express Truck Parts, 408.288.5410)
Scott
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Mark Steitle
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:54 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question on Z-13 & firewall
> penetration
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Steitle
> --> <msteitle@mail.utexas.edu>
>
>
> >Pegasus Auto Racing (www.pegasusautoracing.com) has this
> item, p/n 4570
> >for $10.99. Ref. page 46 of their online catalog.
> >http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pdfs/046.pdf
>
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "'Scott Richardson'"
> ><scott_m_richardson@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> >Hi George,
> >
> >I think I found the product:
> >Cole-Hersee 46211-01 Insulated Battery Feeder Stud
> >http://www.colehersee.com/pdf/master_cat/T137%20Battery.PDF
> (bottom of
> >page)
> >
> >That does look like what I was thinking of. The thing I
> haven't found
> >is a location (on the web at least) to purchase it. Do you remember
> >where you got it and roughly what price you paid? Thanks.
> >
> >Scott
>
>
> ============
> ============
> ============
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-> List.htm
> Search Engine:
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> ============
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | 430 troubleshooting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "GMC" <gmcnutt@uniserve.com>
Hi Joel
I am not a radio tech and do not play one on TV however I would start as
follows.
(1) Does the 430 have a bottom mounted antenna? did you hold the handheld
with it's antenna in the same relative position/orientation?
(2) Push the aircraft outside, then see if there is a difference when the
handheld is held with it's antenna in the same position/orientation as the
430 antenna. (3) if yes, plug the handheld into the 430 antenna coax at the
430 end and check if the handheld signal is reduced. (4) Troubleshoot
antennae and coax cable.
George in Langley
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joel Harding <cajole76@ispwest.com>
The day finally arrived to try my 430 com radio. It sends and
receives okay, but from inside my shop my handheld pulls in aircraft on
a local center freq that the 430 won't----probably a bad sign. Where
would be a good place to start? Antenna grounding?
JoelHarding
---
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 38 Msgs - 03/09/04 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ted Lemen" <tedlem@ecentral.com>
> Time: 09:03:26 AM PST US
> From: "Ron Lee" <rlee468@comcast.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: soldering batteries
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron Lee" <rlee468@comcast.net>
>
> Does anyone know if it is detrimental(to the battery) in any way to solder
a small
> wire to the ends of a alkaline battery?
>
>
> It is not. That is the way I make up my battery packs and that is the way
the factory does it.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 38 Msgs - 03/09/04 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Factory-made battery packs are NOT soldered, but not because of any inherent
fault with that process - it is just too slow. They are assembled by
resistance welding thin strips of nickel or steel to the ends of the cells.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ted Lemen
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 38 Msgs - 03/09/04
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ted Lemen" <tedlem@ecentral.com>
> Time: 09:03:26 AM PST US
> From: "Ron Lee" <rlee468@comcast.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: soldering batteries
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron Lee" <rlee468@comcast.net>
>
> Does anyone know if it is detrimental(to the battery) in any way to solder
a small
> wire to the ends of a alkaline battery?
>
>
> It is not. That is the way I make up my battery packs and that is the way
the factory does it.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Question on Z-13 & firewall penetration |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Yes, me too, Mark. I ordered one this morning. They had another interesting
device on the same page. It was designed to temporarily attach a second
battery for starting race cars.
Terry
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of 'Scott
Richardson'
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question on Z-13 & firewall penetration
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "'Scott Richardson'"
<scott_m_richardson@sbcglobal.net>
Thanks Mark, that's another reason that this list is so useful!
I also emailed the local Cole-Hersee distributor and he gave me a
pointer to a local store here in San Jose, CA where I am that could get
them for about the same price. (Express Truck Parts, 408.288.5410)
Scott
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Mark Steitle
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:54 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question on Z-13 & firewall
> penetration
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Steitle
> --> <msteitle@mail.utexas.edu>
>
>
> >Pegasus Auto Racing (www.pegasusautoracing.com) has this
> item, p/n 4570
> >for $10.99. Ref. page 46 of their online catalog.
> >http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pdfs/046.pdf
>
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "'Scott Richardson'"
> ><scott_m_richardson@sbcglobal.net>
> >
> >Hi George,
> >
> >I think I found the product:
> >Cole-Hersee 46211-01 Insulated Battery Feeder Stud
> >http://www.colehersee.com/pdf/master_cat/T137%20Battery.PDF
> (bottom of
> >page)
> >
> >That does look like what I was thinking of. The thing I
> haven't found
> >is a location (on the web at least) to purchase it. Do you remember
> >where you got it and roughly what price you paid? Thanks.
> >
> >Scott
>
>
> ============
> ============
> ============
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-> List.htm
> Search Engine:
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> ============
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 430 troubleshooting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joel Harding <cajole76@ispwest.com>
George,
You're right, I was not holding the handheld underneath the fuselage
where the com antenna is located. Hopefully that's the reason for the
difference. I guess I expected the 430's performance to be better,
regardless of the orientation.
Thanks for the tips.
Joel Harding
On Mar 10, 2004, at 10:33 AM, GMC wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "GMC" <gmcnutt@uniserve.com>
>
>
> Hi Joel
>
> I am not a radio tech and do not play one on TV however I would start
> as
> follows.
> (1) Does the 430 have a bottom mounted antenna? did you hold the
> handheld
> with it's antenna in the same relative position/orientation?
> (2) Push the aircraft outside, then see if there is a difference when
> the
> handheld is held with it's antenna in the same position/orientation as
> the
> 430 antenna. (3) if yes, plug the handheld into the 430 antenna coax
> at the
> 430 end and check if the handheld signal is reduced. (4) Troubleshoot
> antennae and coax cable.
>
> George in Langley
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joel Harding
> <cajole76@ispwest.com>
>
>
> The day finally arrived to try my 430 com radio. It sends and
> receives okay, but from inside my shop my handheld pulls in aircraft on
> a local center freq that the 430 won't----probably a bad sign. Where
> would be a good place to start? Antenna grounding?
>
> JoelHarding
>
>
> ---
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Columbia 350 electrical system |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carl Coulter <coulter@gci.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Columbia 350 electrical system
<snip>I posted this message last November and didn't receive any responses.
Lancair and Cirrus would seem to be interesting case studies for modern
electrical design, since they've both gone through the certification of new
airplanes quite recently.<snip>
************************************************
Cirrus was up here (Fairbanks) last summer with a small airplane and a
cockpit mockup of their bigger airplane. One panel available to the pilot
was an acre of CBs - may have been thirty of them. I don't know if it had
an avionics master or not. I tried to ask some questions, using my best
manner, nice voice, and even said please and thank you. They didn't have
any interest, or maybe no knowledge.
But, I know why this is. Last year, I was discussing our under construction
GlasStar with my ex-instructor - early 60's, 12,000 hours, arrogant,
demeaning sort, great bus driver, mediocre teacher. He really didn't like
the ideas of no avionics master, and fuses instead of CBs. I quote:
"Fuses are no good. I have kept a radio running by holding in the CB. And
if a CB trips, it can be reset. Can't do either of those with a fuse."
My response: Any time you can hold in a CB to keep it from tripping, means
you have a defective CB. Want to get rid of defective CBs? Put in fuses.
Second item: Assuming a decent design electrical system where the OCP
matches the wire size, name one fault that can be fixed by resetting the
OCP.
No response, and he continues: "No avionics master, huh? You will blow
every piece of electronics every time you start the engine.
Me: No, any current production equipment has sufficient noise and spike
suppression built-in to take anything a starter or alternator can throw at
it (exception for sustained overvoltage).
Him: Well I wouldn't buy an airplane without one.
Next day the student after me is a local A&P that does a lot of avionics
installations:
Him to A&P: Hey, this guy is building his own airplane and he says he
doesn't need an avionics master to protect the electronics during starting.
He says there is nothing the starter or alternator can throw at them that
will hurt them.
A&P: Yeah, that's right. Assuming there is good over voltage protection
for a runaway alternator. And, as long as the battery is tied in, an OV
event takes several seconds or longer (yes he knew that).
Him: Well then, why do all of the manufacturers put in the avionics
masters?
Me: You gave yourself the answer yesterday. You said, "I wouldn't buy an
airplane without one." Now, who do you think the manufacturers are
listening to? The occasional 30 year EE that has been studying fault
tolerant electrical systems, or the 12,000 hour bus driver and all of his
students. In general, your students believe what you tell them is truth.
So what you say is what they say.
No surprises here. The myths just continue.
Carl
Message 10
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| Subject: | Battery contact screws |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Hello Folks,
I have a bit of a problem, I have an Panasonic LC-R 1217PG, now with the
supplied screws it was already a tad difficult to connect the ring terminal
from the AWG2 cable and the one from the battery bus.For adding an external
connector I would have to get another ring terminal lined up on the screw,
but for this the screw is just to short. What screws should I take to
replace the original screws, would brass be ok or could I take some AN
screws?
Any advice appreciated.
Thanks a lot
Werner
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Adhesives and ground contact |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:06 PM 3/9/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Holland" <hollandm@pacbell.net>
>
>I'm considering using an adhesive, probably a marine rated silicone to
>bond a backing plate to the bottom fuselage skins of my RV9A, rather than
>rivets. An adhesive would be much more convenient than rivets, of any
>sort. The concern I have with this plan, is that the backplate, with
>adhesive under it, could possibly interfere with the antenna making good
>ground contact with the airframe. Is this a real issue and has anyone
>tried this without difficulties?
>
>Thanks
The antenna normally finds a ground through the bolts that
fasten the antenna to the aircraft. Since the base of the antenna
has a gasket under it, the only metallic connection is through
the nuts on bolts against the inside skin.
Use an adhesive to mechanically fasten the doubler to inside surface
of skin as you've suggested. For electrical connection, install a
half dozen rivets UNDER the antenna's footprint while the adhesive is
still wet. I'd install the doubler with only rivets and glue. After
glue is set, add holes for antenna. This will cut down on the number
of rivets and hide them under the antenna while providing necessary
mechanical support.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: comm antenna bad? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:59 AM 3/10/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joel Harding <cajole76@ispwest.com>
>
>
>The day finally arrived to try my 430 com radio. It sends and
>receives okay, but from inside my shop my handheld pulls in aircraft on
>a local center freq that the 430 won't----probably a bad sign. Where
>would be a good place to start? Antenna grounding?
Try running the hand-held on the ship's antenna to see if performance
drops. Get antenna analyzer to look at condition of ship's antenna.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Battery contact screws |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:13 PM 3/10/2004 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider"
><wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
>
>Hello Folks,
>
>I have a bit of a problem, I have an Panasonic LC-R 1217PG, now with the
>supplied screws it was already a tad difficult to connect the ring terminal
>from the AWG2 cable and the one from the battery bus
You can drop your battery jumpers to 4AWG welding cable even when
the rest of the airplane is wired with 2AWG. Battery bus jumper
should come off the battery contactor's hot terminal, not from
the battery.
>For adding an external
>connector I would have to get another ring terminal lined up on the screw,
>but for this the screw is just to short. What screws should I take to
>replace the original screws, would brass be ok or could I take some AN
>screws?
1/4-20 or 1/4-28 brass hardware is fine for replacing the screws
on a bolted lead battery post.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Battery contact screws |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
Hello Bob,
fast as usual, thanks a lot!
> Battery bus jumper
> should come off the battery contactor's hot terminal, not from
> the battery.
Will correct this, what is the reason for this?
> 1/4-20 or 1/4-28 brass hardware is fine for replacing the screws
> on a bolted lead battery post.
thanks for the confirmation, kind regards
Werner
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Battery contact screws |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
> You can drop your battery jumpers to 4AWG welding cable even when
> the rest of the airplane is wired with 2AWG. Battery bus jumper
> should come off the battery contactor's hot terminal, not from
> the battery.
>
Bob:
Are you saying that we can use AWG 4 welding cable to go from the battery
to the contactor and AWG 4 from the contactor (same terminal) to the
battery buss?
Thanks,
John
Message 16
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| Subject: | Audio Isolation Amplifier in my intercom system |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jordan Grant" <gra9933@bellsouth.net>
Listers:
I built and installed the monophonic version of the Audio Isolation
Amplifier that was designed by Bob Knuckolls. I connected its output to the
input of my Flightcom intercom. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work for
me. Has anyone out there built the monophonic version with success? Can
anyone tell me how I can troubleshoot it to see what is wrong?
Thanks,
Jordan Grant
RV-6 wiring
N198G Reserved
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Relay's for warning lights |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BillRVSIX@aol.com
Hi Bob thanks for your reply I reread the instructions again and looking at
it in a different way I can see now that all it is, is a ground that shouldn't
exceed 200 milliamperes not just a relay that shouldn't exceed 200
milliamperes . unless you were using one for a devise that was going to turn something
on
that draws more current. The Led is one I found at radio shack part # 276-271
it has a built in resister, in a case that is threaded and fits in a 9/32
mounting hole. 12 to 16 volts current 12 mA to 20 mA max. IM hoping that when the
gages first turn on that the warning LEDs come on for a moment so I know that
they are working if not I might have to put a push to test switch to ground
the LEDs to see if they are working. thanks for your time Bob anymore info
would be great if you see anything wrong with this method. Thank Again
Bill
RV-6
Message 18
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| Subject: | Audio Isolation Amplifier in my intercom system |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jordan Grant" <gra9933@bellsouth.net>
Disregard all of the above. Like magic, once I post a message asking for
help, I find the answer myself. Just had some wires crossed.
Jordan Grant
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jordan
Grant
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Audio Isolation Amplifier in my intercom
system
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jordan Grant"
<gra9933@bellsouth.net>
Listers:
I built and installed the monophonic version of the Audio Isolation
Amplifier that was designed by Bob Knuckolls. I connected its output to the
input of my Flightcom intercom. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work for
me. Has anyone out there built the monophonic version with success? Can
anyone tell me how I can troubleshoot it to see what is wrong?
Thanks,
Jordan Grant
RV-6 wiring
N198G Reserved
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Battery contact screws |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:20 PM 3/10/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder
><jschroeder@perigee.net>
>
> > You can drop your battery jumpers to 4AWG welding cable even when
> > the rest of the airplane is wired with 2AWG. Battery bus jumper
> > should come off the battery contactor's hot terminal, not from
> > the battery.
> >
>Bob:
>
>Are you saying that we can use AWG 4 welding cable to go from the battery
>to the contactor and AWG 4 from the contactor (same terminal) to the
>battery buss?
>
>Thanks,
>
>John
No, 4AWG for cranking circuit. Battery (+) to contactor and
battery (-) to ground. The battery bus gets a much smaller
wire from battery contactor to the bus. See Z-figures.
Bob . . .
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Battery contact screws |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:08 PM 3/10/2004 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider"
><wernerschneider@compuserve.com>
>
>Hello Bob,
>
>fast as usual, thanks a lot!
> > Battery bus jumper
> > should come off the battery contactor's hot terminal, not from
> > the battery.
>
>Will correct this, what is the reason for this?
No good reason to do it. The battery terminal joints
are opened every annual for battery rotation; they're
also soft-lead terminals on some batteries. It's
mechanically cleaner to take the battery bus feeder
from a joint with little probability of being opened over
the lifetime of the airplane.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
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