Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:27 AM - Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:42 AM - Re: Control Stick Switch Override (Paul Messinger)
3. 06:53 AM - Re: Control Stick Switch Override (John Schroeder)
4. 09:47 AM - Endurance buss - second battery wiring (Dave von Linsowe)
5. 12:15 PM - Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring ()
6. 08:14 PM - Battery chargers - my favorite (David Carter)
7. 10:49 PM - Coolie hat switches (Rob W M Shipley)
8. 11:09 PM - Pilot stick grip priority switching (Rob W M Shipley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Endurance buss - second battery wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:58 PM 3/12/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
>
> > >I'm wired per your diagrams for dual battery, single (internally
> > regulated)
> > >alternator.
> > >
> > >I'm considering adding a wire from #2 battery buss via a switch to the E
> > >buss. This way I'll be able to power my essentials (EFI computers, Fuel
> > >pumps, Injectors, Coils) from either battery without using the
> > contactors.
> > >
> > >Any reasons why this would be a bad idea?
> >
> > That works . . . but are you not confident in your
> > ability to maintain batteries such that you KNOW
> > be for you fly what endurance can be expected from
> > each when and if the alternator quits?
>
>Just as with fuel - I'd hate to run out of accessible amps while still
>having some on board. I could run one pump, coil set, and injector set of
>each battery buss, or I could run them all from the e-buss and switch the
>batteries. I prefer the latter since the EC2 computer has (effectively) only
>one supply lead.
>
>I guess my confidence in batteries has weakened recently since I managed to
>fry three with two different chargers in the space of a month. One, a
>so-called "smart" trickle charger and the other a conventional 6 amp unit.
>In the second case the battery was HOT, smelling of acid and bulging at the
>seems after an overnight charge. :(
This is the classic example of not having or exercising
the simple-ideas that support or refute overt expectations
of performance. There are a lot of products bought based
on claims printed on outside of package . . . or voiced
by some salesman on TV. I'm not suggesting that one be
"suspicious" of everything you buy, but it's relatively
easy to exercise constructive and educational skepticism.
Put a voltmeter on the battery when using a new charger
for the first time. A real smart-charger will run full-bore
until battery voltage reaches some peak value after which
it backs off to maintain the battery at some voltage above
it's self-discharge value (12.8v) and a value which puts
much charge into the battery (13.5 or so) . . . Many
decisions are based on anecdotal information and
experiences. The question is: how does your experience
with a couple of plug-in-the-wall battery killers
drive a decision about how many batteries to carry
aboard your airplane? Further, how does this experience
relate to your concerns that prompt back-ups-to-backups?
REAL comfort comes from understanding how you can
personally have understanding followed by command
and control over system design and operation.
I'm not suggesting that your question about the
single pole, double throw switch for tapping either
battery is a bad idea . . . only that it may be
driven by a lack of confidence and understanding.
THAT's the bad idea.
>Perhaps a lesson on charging these rg batteries is in order.....
Read up on batteries. Post questions about what
you've read on the list. I'm currently working a project
at RAC to investigate poor battery performance
and high warranty returns on batteries for what
must be the 10th time in the last 25 years.
Batteries are not like fuel pumps and radios
that can be put on the self unattended and expected
to operate in the airplane relatively trouble free
with service life based on flight hours.
Batteries are like house plants. Too much light,
they're toast. Too little light, they're fertilizer.
Too much water . . . etc. You get the picture.
A battery is almost a living creature with
a life that can be optimized with reasonable
care and understanding . . . and just as
easily destroyed.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Switch Override |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
No its not quite correct.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Pilot_Priority_A.pdf
Or at least that is what I needed.
A list of articles is available using
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Control Stick Switch Override
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss
<chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
>
>
> >snipped
> >>With the plethora of trim, PTT, and other control buttons being
> >>duplicated on each control stick, I'm looking for a circuit to provide
> >>for pilot priority/override if there is a tug of war between the
> >>pilot/copilot. I need to handle 2 axis trim, speed brakes, and CWS.
> >
> > I've published a drawing at:
> >
> > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Pilot_Priority.pdf
> >
> > The upper drawing shows how to wire control stick grip
> > switches for automatic/manual override of the copilot's
> > switches by the pilot. The relay is used to disconnect
> > the copilot's switches any time a pilot's switch is depressed.
> > The toggle switch selects full-time or automatic disable of
> > the copilot's switches.
> >
> > The lower drawing is a bit simpler. It has only a manual
> > disable switch. This circuit does not allow pilot override
> > of any single switch . . . only a choice of whether or
> > not the copilot's stick controls are active.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>
> Bob,
> No joy on using the link provided above. Is it just me?
> Charlie Kuss
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Switch Override |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Charlie -
I had the same problem for both the original and Bob's correction.
Do not archive.
John
>> I've published a drawing at:
>>
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Pilot_Priority.pdf
>>
> Bob,
> No joy on using the link provided above. Is it just me?
> Charlie Kuss
Message 4
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| Subject: | Endurance buss - second battery wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
Bob,
I'm in the final stages of laying out the panel and planning my all electric upgrade.
I started out with a nice "stock" IFR RV-6 and have replaced one mag with an E.I.,
pulled out the vacuum system and added a two axis autopilot, Garmin 430 and
a GRT Horizon One EFIS with engine monitor. I'm also adding a glove box to
store a backup GPS and hand held transceiver. I want to make IFR "easy/easier"
if that's possible. I realize that if and when things go bad you must still
have the skills to fly the airplane.
I was planning on using the dual battery, single alternator setup. And I was starting
to think along the same lines as John and adding a switch to bring either
battery on line. I'm really spoiled now with the vacant real estate behind
the engine. That's my reasoning for dual batteries instead of dual alternators.
But now I'm getting the impression that Z-11 might offer acceptable risk even for
IFR flight. Doesn't the single battery dual alternator, Z-13, rely completely
on the battery for either alternator to function in case of a failure? Although,
I guess it could be a nearly dead battery.
I'm planning on pursuing my IFR rating with the 6 and that I'm in Michigan I'm
sure I'll have lots of opportunities to use it.
So being a newbie to the demands of IFR and the realities of all electric what
are your thoughts?
Thank you,
Dave
The Silver Turtle
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:26 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Endurance buss - second battery wiring
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:58 PM 3/12/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
>
> > >I'm wired per your diagrams for dual battery, single (internally
> > regulated)
> > >alternator.
> > >
> > >I'm considering adding a wire from #2 battery buss via a switch to the E
> > >buss. This way I'll be able to power my essentials (EFI computers, Fuel
> > >pumps, Injectors, Coils) from either battery without using the
> > contactors.
> > >
> > >Any reasons why this would be a bad idea?
> >
> > That works . . . but are you not confident in your
> > ability to maintain batteries such that you KNOW
> > be for you fly what endurance can be expected from
> > each when and if the alternator quits?
>
<snip>
REAL comfort comes from understanding how you can
personally have understanding followed by command
and control over system design and operation.
I'm not suggesting that your question about the
single pole, double throw switch for tapping either
battery is a bad idea . . . only that it may be
driven by a lack of confidence and understanding.
THAT's the bad idea.
<snip>
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Dave,
If you follow Z-13 and use B&C's SD-8 permanent magnet alternator, you can run
you essential bus even if the main alternator dies and the battery is dead. The
permanent magnets in the SD-8 will allow it to generate electricity even without
a battery. The SD-8 only weighs 4 pounds. That's a lot less than any second
battery.
Charlie Kuss
>
> From: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon@tir.com>
> Date: 2004/03/13 Sat PM 12:53:06 EST
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Endurance buss - second battery wiring
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Battery chargers - my favorite |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
John,
I have a Schumaker, bought at Wal-Mart for about $35. It operates
differently from anything Bob writes about in the Aeroelectric Connection
and in e-mails: After clipping leads on battery from charger and plugging
charger in, I connect a DC voltmeter to the clips on neg & positive
terminals to see what is happening. When battery voltage is below 12.89, it
turns on and pumps in the 2 or 10 amps (which ever you select) until voltage
builds up to 13.4 - this may take 15 minutes if battery is discharged some,
or takes 3 to 5 seconds if fully charged. At 13.4, it turns OFF (green
light comes on, stops putting any current into batter - NOT a trickle
charger. As battery voltage "free falls" (self discharges) down to below
12.89 the voltage goes down to 13.4 fairly quickly, then takes a while from
there on down. The better the state of charge of the battery, the longer it
takes (maybe 15 minutes?) to reach 12.89 to turn on for another 5 seconds.
I had two old vintage cars that I tried to keep the batteries up while cars
were inop. The charger began to act flakey after a three years - they took
it back and replaced it free. Still working fine.
David
Message 7
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| Subject: | Coolie hat switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" <rob@robsglass.com>
Anyone have a good source for these?
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
N919RV (res) Fuselage .....still!
Message 8
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| Subject: | Pilot stick grip priority switching |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley" <rob@robsglass.com>
Bob,
Could you answer a couple of (probably dumb) questions about your diagram.
I presume another relay is required to switch the pilots and copilots mikes from
intercom to radio when the PTT is pressed.
Looking for the diodes the various flavours of 47XX diodes I've found seem to be
zeners. Would 1N4001 or IN5402 diodes work in this application?
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
N919RV (res) Fuselage .....still!
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