Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:09 AM - Re: Source for coiled Yoke wiring ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:23 AM - Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring (Dale Martin)
3. 06:26 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 03/14/04 (Dale Martin)
4. 06:42 AM - Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring (BobsV35B@aol.com)
5. 06:44 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 03/15/04 (Speedy11@aol.com)
6. 06:45 AM - Re: Source for coiled Yoke wiring ? (flyv35b)
7. 07:15 AM - Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring (Joel Harding)
8. 08:28 AM - Re: Source for coiled Yoke wiring ? (Richard Tasker)
9. 08:28 AM - Endurance buss - second battery wiring (Glen Matejcek)
10. 08:31 AM - RG25 Battery (Charlie Burton)
11. 10:16 AM - Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 10:54 AM - Re: Wiring for Xcom ()
13. 11:52 AM - Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring (Dan Branstrom)
14. 01:01 PM - Prop drag - windmilling and stopped (william mills)
15. 01:05 PM - Re: prop stopping and other good(?) things to do (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 02:09 PM - Re: Prop drag - windmilling and stopped (Dave Morris)
17. 02:24 PM - Flasher Unit Location? (Haas Michael (IFR TT DR))
18. 03:29 PM - Re: Re: prop stopping and other good(?) things to do (Joel Harding)
19. 03:33 PM - Re: luxeon high intensity leds and accessories (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 03:42 PM - 2 AWG WIRE THRU THE FIREWALL (Leonard Garceau)
21. 04:12 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 04:13 PM - Re: 2 AWG WIRE THRU THE FIREWALL (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 04:23 PM - IComA200 Questions (Troy Scott)
24. 04:46 PM - annunciator lights (Troy Scott)
25. 04:57 PM - Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring (Scott, Ian)
26. 05:01 PM - low battery price that Spruce won't match (Joa Harrison)
27. 05:11 PM - Re: low battery price that Spruce won't match (John Slade)
28. 05:38 PM - Re: Prop drag - windmilling and stopped (Jacob & Grace)
29. 05:50 PM - Dual Batteries & Dual Electronic Ignition (JOHNATHAN MACY)
30. 06:26 PM - FW: If Your Engine Quits (Wayne Reese)
31. 06:35 PM - Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring (czechsix@juno.com)
32. 07:08 PM - Re: 2 AWG WIRE THRU THE FIREWALL (Leonard Garceau)
33. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 03/15/04 (Alex Peterson)
34. 07:46 PM - Re: IComA200 Questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
35. 07:52 PM - Re: annunciator lights (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
36. 07:54 PM - Re: low battery price that Spruce won't (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
37. 08:07 PM - Re: Prop drag - windmilling and stopped (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
38. 08:09 PM - Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
39. 08:31 PM - Re: low battery price that Spruce won't match (Chad Robinson)
40. 10:00 PM - Hiding Antenna (Speedy11@aol.com)
41. 11:27 PM - breakers? (Troy Scott)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Source for coiled Yoke wiring ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:20 PM 3/15/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 3/15/04 10:18:20 AM Central Standard Time,
>pascal@aeroteknic.com writes:
>I'm looking for a source for at least 8 conductor coiled (spiral)
>rubberized wiring for hooking up a yoke with lots of switches
>and a center clock (Bonanza).
>
>-Pascal
>
>Good Morning Pascal,
>
>For what it is worth, my Bonanza has a nineteen wire cord and all of them
>are in use. I am not sure what all is handled, though mine is not very
>heavily equipped. The reason I am familiar with the number is I just had
>occasion to disconnect it!
>
>Happy Skies,
>
>Old Bob
>AKA
>Bob Siegfried
>Ancient Aviator
>Stearman N3977A
>Brookeridge Airpark LL22
>Downers Grove, IL 60516
>630 985-8502
the few times I recall any coiled cords installed where I worked,
they were all custom ordered. There are companies that specialize
in that kind of product and nobody I'm aware of stocks them. You're
probably going to have to approach RAC/Beech for a possible replacement.
Hang onto your wallet!!!
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dale Martin" <niceez@cableone.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
If you get the engine stopped, then I presume it was stopped on purpose and
for reasons OTHER than having lost any combination of alternators or
batteries.
******
I think Bob you forgot about icing stopping an engine. It can cause the
prop to stop windmilling. Desending to warmer air and the use of a starter
could come in handy. All hypothetical.
> Bob wrote;
> The OBAM aircraft community carries a lot of baggage
> from the certified world not the least of which is founded
> on the dark-n-stormy-night stories in the monthly rags.
> If one installs Van's harness (al-la C-172)
> and replaces certified junk alternators and batteries
> with modern ND and RG products, the probability of
> having a hair-raising tale to tell the grand kids is
> already reduced to a small fraction compared to
> certified iron. Replace the a-bus with an e-bus
> and the fraction becomes smaller still. > Bob . . .
>
Now were on the same page (or maybe we always were).... Update the system
and the failures are far and few between... Reliability and using sound
judgment for limited life components is where it is at. Why build something
you can't afford to maintain is my thinking. I still get five years or more
from a G-243 (Concord this time) battery. Taking good care of it is the
key. I just consider it electric gas at the time of renewal. :-)
Dale Martin
Lewiston, ID
LEZ-235
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 03/14/04 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dale Martin" <niceez@cableone.net>
Bill,
Get a 24 volt starter and alternator, the engine could care what the
voltage is.....
Dale Martin
Lewiston, ID
LEZ-235
----- Original Message -----
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton"
<Bill@Howerton.com>
>
> Bob,
> I have a great number of 28-volt intruments and avionics that I
intend
> to use in my airplane. Additionally, I'm putting a standard (12-volt)
> Corvair engine in my plane. As I read through your manual, I don't really
> find a clear recomendation as to a well designed aircraft electrical
system,
> that allows these two to co-exist happily. However, from other contacts,
> I've received a number of recommendations that vary from the installation
of
> a rectifier to the addition of a second alternator.
>
> OK, so what kind of recomendation do you have?
> Bill
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 3/16/04 8:24:22 AM Central Standard Time,
niceez@cableone.net writes:
I think Bob you forgot about icing stopping an engine. It can cause the
prop to stop windmilling. Desending to warmer air and the use of a starter
could come in handy. All hypothetical.
Good Morning niceez,
Hypothetical is the key word!
I have had a lot of ice on an airplane and I have never had an engine stop
turning because of that airframe ice. I have encountered carburetor ice which
caused an engine to stop producing power and I have had impact ice on an intake
screen which caused an engine to quit running, but I have never had the prop
stop turning when the engine quit!
I figure it is a lot more likely that a wing will fall of than it is that the
prop on a typical light airplane will stop turning when the engine stops
producing power.
I imagine that some of the small highly geared two stroke engines may quit
turning if they are shut down, but even that is only supposition. I have no
experience in that realm at all.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 03/15/04 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
In a message dated 3/16/04 2:59:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
<< get yourself a C/S RV. Then, slow to about 70 knots and
pull the mixture. Then slow to about 60 knots, and the prop will stop
before the plane stalls. Add a little speed, something like 70-80 knots
and it will start turning again. >>
Alex,
What is best glide speed (IAS) in your RV-6A? Do you have to spin the prop
again to attain best glide speed? Anyone have the best glide speed for the
RV-8A?
Stan Sutterfield
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Source for coiled Yoke wiring ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
> I'm looking for a source for at least 8 conductor coiled (spiral)
> rubberized wiring for hooking up a yoke with lots of switches
> and a center clock (Bonanza).
Let me know if you find one as I'm looking for one for my Bonanza also.
Cliff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pascal Gosselin" <pascal@aeroteknic.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Source for coiled Yoke wiring ?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Pascal Gosselin
<pascal@aeroteknic.com>
>
>
> I'm looking for a source for at least 8 conductor coiled (spiral)
> rubberized wiring for hooking up a yoke with lots of switches
> and a center clock (Bonanza).
>
> -Pascal
>
> +---------------------------+
> Pascal Gosselin
> pascal@aeroteknic.com
> tel. (450) 676-6299
> fax. (450) 676-2760
> cell. (514) 298-3343
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joel Harding <cajole76@ispwest.com>
Out of curiosity, has anyone compared the same speed sink rate, with
the prop stopped or windmilling?
Joel Harding
On Mar 15, 2004, at 7:33 PM, Alex Peterson wrote:
>
> Bob,
> First, you get yourself a C/S RV. Then, slow to about 70 knots and
> pull the mixture. Then slow to about 60 knots, and the prop will stop
> before the plane stalls. Add a little speed, something like 70-80
> knots
> and it will start turning again. Do this well above an airport if you
> are faint at heart. It is quite interesting to see the prop stopped.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 445 hours
> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Source for coiled Yoke wiring ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
Try these guys. The coiled cords are not especially cheap but if they
have what you need, it is probably cheaper than getting one from Bonanza.
http://www.olflex.com/90Contents.htm
Dick Tasker
Pascal Gosselin wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Pascal Gosselin <pascal@aeroteknic.com>
>
>
>I'm looking for a source for at least 8 conductor coiled (spiral)
>rubberized wiring for hooking up a yoke with lots of switches
>and a center clock (Bonanza).
>
>-Pascal
>
>+---------------------------+
>Pascal Gosselin
>pascal@aeroteknic.com
>tel. (450) 676-6299
>fax. (450) 676-2760
>cell. (514) 298-3343
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Endurance buss - second battery wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Hi Bob-
Re: Recall that the SD-8 only weighs about 4# installed and produces up to
10 ampere hours of "capacity" ....
What's the status of your investigation into the capacity / adaptability of
the B&C regulator?
The last I spoke with them, B&C claimed that this system was never intended
for that
application. As a current owner of this equipment, and one who was
counting on 8A in a
main alt failure scenario, I'm more than a little distressed about the
situation.
As ever, thanks in advance for your time and expertise!
gm
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Charlie Burton" <notrubce@hotmail.com>
I need to replace my RG25XC battery and wondered where the best deal might be.
Any suggestions?
Charlie Burton 331Fox
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:28 AM 3/16/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek"
><aerobubba@earthlink.net>
>
>Hi Bob-
>
>Re: Recall that the SD-8 only weighs about 4# installed and produces up to
>10 ampere hours of "capacity" ....
>
>What's the status of your investigation into the capacity / adaptability of
>the B&C regulator?
>
>The last I spoke with them, B&C claimed that this system was never intended
>for that
>application. As a current owner of this equipment, and one who was
>counting on 8A in a
>main alt failure scenario, I'm more than a little distressed about the
>situation.
>
>As ever, thanks in advance for your time and expertise!
>
>gm
This issue is being investigated. The published capability for
the SD-8 has always been 8A continuous. If that's any different
from reality, I'm sure there will be steps taken to rectify the
matter. Keep watching the AeroElectric-List. As soon as I
hear from B&C, I'll let you know.
For now, I see no reason not to plan for the SD-8 to serve
as an 8A power source in your airplane.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
Thanks George
I received a correct diagram from Xcom immediately! It seems they now
have a real tech support. Also Bob N quickly made one up and sent it.
He is amazing!
I was a neighbor of yours in Bellingham until last year when we moved to
California. Temp yesterday was 83F. Nice.
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GMC
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wiring for Xcom
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "GMC" <gmcnutt@uniserve.com>
Hi Tom
I assume that you have the wiring diagram that came with the unit, if
not it
is on the Xcom web site.
Looks like it might not be designed for a second comm radio as it only
has
second audio input (nav radio?).
George in Langley
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring for Xcom
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
Help! Has anybody wired an Xcom intercom to two coms? The factory sold
me a wiring harness that doesn't work. They will not send me wiring
diagrams, schematics or return my money. They refuse to fix it.
BEWARE of Xcom. BEWARE!
Tom
==
==
==
==
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Branstrom" <danbranstrom@verizon.net>
There was an article in either Flying or AOPA Pilot, where the comparison
was made between a windmilling and a stopped prop. They demonstrated that a
windmilling propellor produces more drag. If your engine is gone and you
have the time and altitude, stop the prop.
Dan Branstrom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Harding" <cajole76@ispwest.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Endurance buss - second battery wiring
Message 14
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| Subject: | Prop drag - windmilling and stopped |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: william mills <courierboy@earthlink.net>
Dan and all -
Clem from Oklahoma reported the following to the Kitfoxlist. This is
a neat illustration of what the effects are of a windmilling vice a
stopped prop (I'm sure Bob and John Marzluf and Lowell remember this).
Thanks again Clem if you're listening -
Bill
==================
OK gang, I finally got around to building a test jig to determine
which produces more drag -- a stopped prop or a freewheeling one. I
built a ball bearinged jig with an RC model airplane prop (a good
airfoil) mounted on the end of a 2 foot long lever arm connected to a
postage scale. I applied wind from a large squirrel cage blower from
a central airconditioner unit to get a large volume of smooth
airflow. I measured the drag with the prop stopped, partially
spinning (windmilling), and freewheeling. Here's the result: A
2-bladed (7inch dia. x 4 pitch) prop produced 100 grams of drag when
not spinning and 160 grams when freewheeling at 2800 RPM. This effect
was repeatable and consistent. When the prop is released from stopped
the drag steadily increases at a linear rate as the RPM increases.
When friction was added to the prop shaft simulating the prop turning
an engine over, the prop slowed down and the drag decreased. The
faster the prop was allowed to turn, the more the airflow drag. This
relationship could be shown with a variety of props including 3
bladed ones and props of different sizes and pitches. Just to verify
my experiment with a separate (crude) experiment, I held the lever
arm with the prop on the end out the car window. Sure enough when I
released the prop, I could feel the drag increasing significantly. I
had always believed that a spinning prop causes less drag and had
set out to prove it, but I was wrong. Hope this little experiment
provides some useful data for you, though it might stir another
flurry of email like my earlier experiment with the little funnels on
the fuel filler cap did.
cheers,
Clem Oklahoma
====================
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Branstrom"
><danbranstrom@verizon.net>
>
>There was an article in either Flying or AOPA Pilot, where the comparison
>was made between a windmilling and a stopped prop. They demonstrated that a
>windmilling propellor produces more drag. If your engine is gone and you
>have the time and altitude, stop the prop.
>
>Dan Branstrom
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: prop stopping and other good(?) things to do |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:58 AM 3/16/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Branstrom"
><danbranstrom@verizon.net>
>
>There was an article in either Flying or AOPA Pilot, where the comparison
>was made between a windmilling and a stopped prop. They demonstrated that a
>windmilling propellor produces more drag. If your engine is gone and you
>have the time and altitude, stop the prop.
Yes but . . .
What is the maneuver and how much time does it take to get the prop
stopped? How much altitude is lost before the drag is reduced?
When the engine quits, is it better to make an immediate determination
as to one of three reasons (1) ignition, (2) fuel flow or (3) gross
mechanical failure. Since 95% of all engine stoppage is due to
fuel starvation, it takes only seconds to fix what's fixable in
the cockpit. It would be a pretty silly emergency procedure that
calls for stopping the engine before you confirm fuel stoppage and
then having to dive the airplane or use the starter to get the
engine rotating again! If it's ignition, then you've lost two systems with
not much that can be done about it. Same with mechanical failures.
If correcting a fuel management error doesn't get you running again
in a few seconds then there's no argument that one needs to concentrate
on a different energy management problem that maximizes survival
of your arrival with the earth. If that includes stopping the prop
and it can be done on your airplane, by all means, do it if there
is time. But be sure you're doing a good thing. The sink rate
for your airplane at prop-stopping IAS may be so high that the
whole effort of getting into a "low drag mode" might cost
you so much altitude and TIME that nothing useful was gained. This
is something that needs to be carefully determined for each configuration.
The basic premise that stopping the prop reduces drag is a sound
one. But time and stored energy tossed off in the maneuver to
accomplish the low drag configuration may not be the best use
of limited resources . . . altitude and time. Further, it's another
thing to distract you from thought processes needed to plan
for landing. If there is lots of reasonably friendly terrain
below, messing with the prop is probably an unnecessary and
perhaps dangerous distraction. After the prop is motionless,
one needs to be cautious of a potentially overwhelming desire
to stretch a glide . . .
Not trying to argue for or against any activity based on
good practice and science . . . but I've sat in on meetings between
pilots who were crafting emergency procedures. The thoughts
I've offered above are but a fraction of the things commonly
considered. These ol' graybeards have been through more
struggles with failures than all of us would collectively
expect in our lifetimes. The consideration for crafting
procedures will never be fully explained in a magazine
article. Do good things that are really helpful but take
care to confirm the usefulness.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Prop drag - windmilling and stopped |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris <dave@davemorris.com>
Geeze, he went to all that trouble and all he had to do was ask a
helicopter pilot which produces more drag, autorotation, or a stopped rotor.
Dave Morris
At 12:58 PM 3/16/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: william mills
><courierboy@earthlink.net>
>
>Dan and all -
>
>Clem from Oklahoma reported the following to the Kitfoxlist. This is
>a neat illustration of what the effects are of a windmilling vice a
>stopped prop (I'm sure Bob and John Marzluf and Lowell remember this).
>
>Thanks again Clem if you're listening -
>
>Bill
>
>==================
>Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 15:06:51 -0500
>
> OK gang, I finally got around to building a test jig to determine
>which produces more drag -- a stopped prop or a freewheeling one. I
>built a ball bearinged jig with an RC model airplane prop (a good
>airfoil) mounted on the end of a 2 foot long lever arm connected to a
>postage scale. I applied wind from a large squirrel cage blower from
>a central airconditioner unit to get a large volume of smooth
>airflow. I measured the drag with the prop stopped, partially
>spinning (windmilling), and freewheeling. Here's the result: A
>2-bladed (7inch dia. x 4 pitch) prop produced 100 grams of drag when
>not spinning and 160 grams when freewheeling at 2800 RPM. This effect
>was repeatable and consistent. When the prop is released from stopped
>the drag steadily increases at a linear rate as the RPM increases.
>When friction was added to the prop shaft simulating the prop turning
>an engine over, the prop slowed down and the drag decreased. The
>faster the prop was allowed to turn, the more the airflow drag. This
>relationship could be shown with a variety of props including 3
>bladed ones and props of different sizes and pitches. Just to verify
>my experiment with a separate (crude) experiment, I held the lever
>arm with the prop on the end out the car window. Sure enough when I
>released the prop, I could feel the drag increasing significantly. I
>had always believed that a spinning prop causes less drag and had
>set out to prove it, but I was wrong. Hope this little experiment
>provides some useful data for you, though it might stir another
>flurry of email like my earlier experiment with the little funnels on
>the fuel filler cap did.
>cheers,
>Clem Oklahoma
>====================
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Branstrom"
> ><danbranstrom@verizon.net>
> >
> >There was an article in either Flying or AOPA Pilot, where the comparison
> >was made between a windmilling and a stopped prop. They demonstrated that a
> >windmilling propellor produces more drag. If your engine is gone and you
> >have the time and altitude, stop the prop.
> >
> >Dan Branstrom
>
>
Dave Morris
Message 17
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| Subject: | Flasher Unit Location? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Haas Michael (IFR TT DR)" <Michael.Haas@infineon.com>
We are in the process of building a Zenith 801 (all metal aircraft) and are
pondering where best to locate the flasher electronic units. There seems to
be two opinions on this subject. Mount the flasher electronics in the wing
tips (to make the wiring from the electronics to the strobe lights short in
an effort to reduce the potential for popping/interference in the
intercom/radio) or mount the electronics somewhere convenient, like under
the seats (so that they can be serviced easily should something fail) and
then run the cables from the fuselage to the wingtips.
Is there a real advantage to either setup?
Where are the units located in certified airplanes?
Are properly grounded/shielded cables more important than cable length?
Not that is should matter, but we are using AeroFlash combination position
and strobe units on the wing tips.
Thanks for the Help,
Michael Haas
Zenith 801
50% Complete / 50% to Go
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: prop stopping and other good(?) things to do |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joel Harding <cajole76@ispwest.com>
I think that at least in RV's you are right Bob. Even if you stopped
the prop, you wouldn't want to stay at a speed that would keep the prop
stopped, because of the increased sink rate. If you could ease the
speed back up to 85 to 90 mph without starting prop rotation it would
be a definite advantage in that the the reduced sink rate would be
closer to what you are used to, and would increase the accuracy of your
approach planning. If you have to stay in the seventies to keep it
stopped, then it's probably a toss up.
Joel Harding
On Mar 16, 2004, at 2:05 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 11:58 AM 3/16/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Branstrom"
>> <danbranstrom@verizon.net>
>>
>> There was an article in either Flying or AOPA Pilot, where the
>> comparison
>> was made between a windmilling and a stopped prop. They demonstrated
>> that a
>> windmilling propellor produces more drag. If your engine is gone and
>> you
>> have the time and altitude, stop the prop.
>
> Yes but . . .
>
> What is the maneuver and how much time does it take to get the prop
> stopped? How much altitude is lost before the drag is reduced?
> When the engine quits, is it better to make an immediate
> determination
> as to one of three reasons (1) ignition, (2) fuel flow or (3) gross
> mechanical failure. Since 95% of all engine stoppage is due to
> fuel starvation, it takes only seconds to fix what's fixable in
> the cockpit. It would be a pretty silly emergency procedure that
> calls for stopping the engine before you confirm fuel stoppage and
> then having to dive the airplane or use the starter to get the
> engine rotating again! If it's ignition, then you've lost two
> systems with
> not much that can be done about it. Same with mechanical failures.
> If correcting a fuel management error doesn't get you running again
> in a few seconds then there's no argument that one needs to
> concentrate
> on a different energy management problem that maximizes survival
> of your arrival with the earth. If that includes stopping the prop
> and it can be done on your airplane, by all means, do it if there
> is time. But be sure you're doing a good thing. The sink rate
> for your airplane at prop-stopping IAS may be so high that the
> whole effort of getting into a "low drag mode" might cost
> you so much altitude and TIME that nothing useful was gained. This
> is something that needs to be carefully determined for each
> configuration.
>
> The basic premise that stopping the prop reduces drag is a sound
> one. But time and stored energy tossed off in the maneuver to
> accomplish the low drag configuration may not be the best use
> of limited resources . . . altitude and time. Further, it's another
> thing to distract you from thought processes needed to plan
> for landing. If there is lots of reasonably friendly terrain
> below, messing with the prop is probably an unnecessary and
> perhaps dangerous distraction. After the prop is motionless,
> one needs to be cautious of a potentially overwhelming desire
> to stretch a glide . . .
>
> Not trying to argue for or against any activity based on
> good practice and science . . . but I've sat in on meetings between
> pilots who were crafting emergency procedures. The thoughts
> I've offered above are but a fraction of the things commonly
> considered. These ol' graybeards have been through more
> struggles with failures than all of us would collectively
> expect in our lifetimes. The consideration for crafting
> procedures will never be fully explained in a magazine
> article. Do good things that are really helpful but take
> care to confirm the usefulness.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: luxeon high intensity leds and accessories |
.com>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Got a peek at some Whelen LED nav lights and red flashing
light for anti-collision today. Nice looking stuff. Certainly not
to pricey for a $10million$ airplane. Fired them up at my desk
at RAC and drew quite a crowd. Looks like they're taking advantage
of a relatively new line of high intensity LEDs. Here are a few
links I found on the net about these critters.
http://www.luxeonstar.com/
http://lib1.store.vip.sc5.yahoo.com/lib/ledsupply/02008a.pdf
http://lib1.store.vip.sc5.yahoo.com/lib/ledsupply/PowerPuck-Luxeon-Applications.pdf
http://www.hdssystems.com/LuxeonVsNicha.pdf
http://www.dansdata.com/caselight2.htm
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 20
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| Subject: | 2 AWG WIRE THRU THE FIREWALL |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leonard Garceau" <lhgcpg@westriv.com>
What's the best method of running the 2AWG wire from the battery contactor thru
the firewall? Do you run it without any junction at the firewall?
Leonard
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - |
03/14/04
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
03/14/04
At 11:39 PM 3/15/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
>
>Bob,
> I have a great number of 28-volt intruments and avionics that I intend
>to use in my airplane. Additionally, I'm putting a standard (12-volt)
>Corvair engine in my plane. As I read through your manual, I don't really
>find a clear recomendation as to a well designed aircraft electrical system,
>that allows these two to co-exist happily. However, from other contacts,
>I've received a number of recommendations that vary from the installation of
>a rectifier to the addition of a second alternator.
>
>OK, so what kind of recomendation do you have?
Pretty tough on a simple airplane. Would be beter to just
go 28V. You can get an SB-1 regulator from B&C that will
let you run an externally regulated 14 volt alternator as
a 28 volt alternator. Go ahead and run the 12v starter on
24v . . . you get really fast starts and the starter isn't
beat up too badly. Down side is that all your lights and
other accessories will have to be 28v too.
A dual voltage system is possible but seems an extra-ordinary
burden on an otherwise simple airplane.
Bob . . .
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: 2 AWG WIRE THRU THE FIREWALL |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:41 PM 3/16/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leonard Garceau"
><lhgcpg@westriv.com>
>
>What's the best method of running the 2AWG wire from the battery contactor
>thru the firewall? Do you run it without any junction at the firewall?
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Firewall_Penetration/firewall.html
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 23
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| Subject: | IComA200 Questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" <tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
Gentlemen,
About the ICOM A200:
1. WRT the three auxiliary audio inputs, does the volume control of the A200
affect the level of whatever auxiliary audio I'm playing through the A200?
For example, If I run the marker beacon audio through one of these auxiliary
inputs and I have the volume of the A200 turned all the way down, will I
hear the marker?
2. What happens with the auxiliary audio inputs when the A200 is turned off
completely? Would the marker (or whatever) still "play through"?
3. I'm assuming there must be audio isolation in the A200...?
4. WRT the transmit/receive interlock requirement, the ICOM instructions
tell me how to interconnect two A200s. If I use this A200 with, for
example, an Apollo SL30 or SL40, will I still have to accomplish the
transmit/receive interlock?
Regards,
Troy Scott
Message 24
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| Subject: | annunciator lights |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" <tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
Gentlemen,
Where can I get a good deal on the Honeywell/Microswitch 45/59 series
solid-state (LED lit) annunciator lights like the ones Vision MicroSystems
used to sell? Lancair Avionics has them, but they want $38 for the
annunciator/lens unit. That seems a little steep. I want 10 (maybe 16) of
them. Here is a link to what I want:
http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/pki/catalog/aml45_59.pdf
Also, If any of you have a suggestion for a good substitute, I'd like to
hear about it! I already know about the panels from Aircraft Simulators.
Regards,
Troy Scott
tscott1217@bellsouth.net
Message 25
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| Subject: | Endurance buss - second battery wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott, Ian" <ian_scott@commander.com>
Hi Bob, interesting data point for you,
With a Jabiru 4 or 6 cylinder engine and their normal wooden prop, due the compression
of the engine it will stop in flight, and after it stops it may take more
than VNE to get it to wind mill.
I believe this is doe to the compression, and you need to see more than 300RPM
for a re start, so there are certainly some aircraft that do not windmill. And
require a starter to get the engine going again.
thanks
Ian
(who has tested this in practice)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Endurance buss - second battery wiring
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:41 PM 3/15/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dale Martin" <niceez@cableone.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>Insure me that the alternator will restart an engine in flight! The prop
>has to be (should be) stopped engage the starter. Some airplanes take a
>great deal of airspeed to make the prop start to windmill (read great loss
>of altitude) and your hoping it restarts.
How do you get the prop to stop in flight? I've tried it
on every type of aircraft I've flown . . . and without
a purposeful reduction in IAS, they all windmill and produce
MUCHO drag. If it is windmilling, the problem isn't how
to engage the starter, it's how to restore lost ignition and/or
fuel flow. That generally takes VERY little energy . . .
energy that will be available from a well maintained RG battery.
Bob . . .
Message 26
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| Subject: | low battery price that Spruce won't match |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joa Harrison <flyasuperseven@yahoo.com>
Found http://www.gotbatteries.com/Productpage.asp?ProductNum=35L105S3 for $29 which is significantly less than the $68 price that Spruce wants. They wouldn't match the price. Makes you wonder why they have a low price policy.
Is this a RG battery? Anybody have experience with this battery or the supplier
that's selling it for the low price?
Joa
Message 27
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| Subject: | low battery price that Spruce won't match |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade" <sladerj@bellsouth.net>
> Found
> http://www.gotbatteries.com/Productpage.asp?ProductNum=35L105S3
> for $29 which is significantly less than the $68 price that
> Spruce wants. They wouldn't match the price. Makes you wonder
> why they have a low price policy.
>
> Is this a RG battery? Anybody have experience with this battery
> or the supplier that's selling it for the low price?
I took delivery of that very battery from that same supplier last week. The
service was good, and the price was right. I've ordered from them before and
had no problems. The battery is performing well so far. It's identical to
the panasonic 1217 I already have in terms of layout and size, but has
slightly stronger terminals and claims 18 am hr rather than 17.
John Slade
Cozy IV
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Prop drag - windmilling and stopped |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jacob & Grace" <grizzlybear@klondiker.com>
Someone not so long ago (can't remember who so you may have to identify
yourself if you want to correct any errors) reported an engine failure.
Everything went as well as could be expected and it was on very short final
for the emergency field which was just in reach "when the prop stopped
turning". I think the quote was "It was like someone turned the engine on
again" and only through some aggresive maneuvers was a nasty overshoot of
the landing space available avoided. Don't get caught here is the lesson I
guess.
----- Original Message -----
From: "william mills" <courierboy@earthlink.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Prop drag - windmilling and stopped
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: william mills
<courierboy@earthlink.net>
>
> Dan and all -
>
> Clem from Oklahoma reported the following to the Kitfoxlist. This is
> a neat illustration of what the effects are of a windmilling vice a
> stopped prop (I'm sure Bob and John Marzluf and Lowell remember this).
>
> Thanks again Clem if you're listening -
>
> Bill
>
> ==================
> Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 15:06:51 -0500
>
> OK gang, I finally got around to building a test jig to determine
> which produces more drag -- a stopped prop or a freewheeling one. I
> built a ball bearinged jig with an RC model airplane prop (a good
> airfoil) mounted on the end of a 2 foot long lever arm connected to a
> postage scale. I applied wind from a large squirrel cage blower from
> a central airconditioner unit to get a large volume of smooth
> airflow. I measured the drag with the prop stopped, partially
> spinning (windmilling), and freewheeling. Here's the result: A
> 2-bladed (7inch dia. x 4 pitch) prop produced 100 grams of drag when
> not spinning and 160 grams when freewheeling at 2800 RPM. This effect
> was repeatable and consistent. When the prop is released from stopped
> the drag steadily increases at a linear rate as the RPM increases.
> When friction was added to the prop shaft simulating the prop turning
> an engine over, the prop slowed down and the drag decreased. The
> faster the prop was allowed to turn, the more the airflow drag. This
> relationship could be shown with a variety of props including 3
> bladed ones and props of different sizes and pitches. Just to verify
> my experiment with a separate (crude) experiment, I held the lever
> arm with the prop on the end out the car window. Sure enough when I
> released the prop, I could feel the drag increasing significantly. I
> had always believed that a spinning prop causes less drag and had
> set out to prove it, but I was wrong. Hope this little experiment
> provides some useful data for you, though it might stir another
> flurry of email like my earlier experiment with the little funnels on
> the fuel filler cap did.
> cheers,
> Clem Oklahoma
> ====================
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Branstrom"
> ><danbranstrom@verizon.net>
> >
> >There was an article in either Flying or AOPA Pilot, where the comparison
> >was made between a windmilling and a stopped prop. They demonstrated
that a
> >windmilling propellor produces more drag. If your engine is gone and you
> >have the time and altitude, stop the prop.
> >
> >Dan Branstrom
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Dual Batteries & Dual Electronic Ignition |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: JOHNATHAN MACY <bushpilot@optonline.net>
Hi Bob,
I was at your Groton course. I was the guy that could not stay for Sunday and had
gotten an electrical design from an engine builder that had 22 "Oh My God"
relays in it. I have gone back through the information and your reliability section
of the book. Additionally, I have printed out he AeroElectric FAQ's from
this server and read through them. Here is where I am at:
1) The FAQ's was a great source of information - is it listed on your web site?
If it is, I could not find it. It needs to stand out as a key resource of information.
Most of my questions were already answered there.
2) I will have two ignition systems, a primary ignition and a keep-it-flying ignition.
Each ignition will be separate and connected to an individual battery
bus on each of the 2 batteries. I will still have an endurance bus for the other
key items. I plan on putting in 2 separate switches that will allow the endurance
bus to be fed by the battery that is not powering the active ignition.
Does this make sense and is there an easy way to do it to minimize pilot work
load?
3) I have incorporated the run away OV protection even though the alternator has
internal OV and regulator. Additionally, there will be a low voltage warning
light to show alternator failure when the voltage drops below 13.8 volts. I would
like to add a second low voltage warning light to the primary ignition that
would give me a indication just before the battery craps out. Is this do able
with a lower set point?? Ideally, I would never need it, but it would be nice
to have an indication to switch to the keep-it-flying ignition before the engine
stops.
4) I can replace almost all of the relays with switches. There will be a couple
of relays that I will keep for non-critical application (seat heaters for my
wife). However, I am going to need a couple of relays in critical applications
like fuel pumps. Do you have a solid state relay you would recommend?
Everything else is straight forward once I get the 2 ignitions and E-bus sorted
out.
Thanks for teaching, I learned a lot.
Johnathan
Message 30
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| Subject: | FW: If Your Engine Quits |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Wayne Reese" <waynereese@qwest.net>
You may consider this approach.
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: Liz & Lee Holloman [mailto:lizzielee@sisna.com]
Chamberlain; Hal Dennis Beer; Dan Cranney; Bud Barry; Wayne
Reese; Vern Provost; Steve Blomquist; Scott Neilson; Russ Chazell; Mike
Murray; Mel Anderson; Russell Taylor; Mark; Jo Ann Olds; Jim Theissen
Subject: Fw: If Your Engine Quits
Subject: Fw: If Your Engine Quits
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Endurance buss - second battery wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
"A pair of alternators beats a pair of batteries in any poker game"...UNLESS you
have dual electronic ignition. I have dual Lightspeeds and was planning the
Z-13 dual alternator configuration until I thought it through a bit more carefully
and now I've got single alternator, dual batteries. Having the second aux
battery is more robust for ensuring that one ignition will still be running
when the main system goes south than having two alternators tied to a common
battery. Yes, RG batteries are good and reliable yada yada yada, but even a well-maintained
and changed-out-every-other-year RG battery CAN fail (as can battery
terminal connections, etc), and the SD-8 doesn't guarantee continued electrical
power to engine and panel if this happens.
The SD-8 is a nice unit but very expensive in terms of dollars per amp, and for
most of us, it will sit there and spin forever without ever being needed. With
a carefully thought-out e-bus architecture, the main battery should get you
were you want to go after main alternator failure, so having the SD-8 in this
scenario would be "nice to have" but not really required. The biggest argument
I can think of for the SD-8 is it could get you home if you were on the other
side of the country and didn't want to have to change the main (failed) alternator
until you return home. Or, in rare cases, if you have an aircraft capable
of really long range flight--and intend to actually use this capability--where
even e-bus operations would not be sufficient to outlast your tank of gas.
For example if you were crossing the pond and have no place to land between
CA and Hawaii, having the SD-8 really makes sense in an airplane dependent upon
electrons for panel and/or engine operation. But
in that case, I'd opt for two fully redundant electrical systems, i.e. the main
alternator tied to the main battery (used for starting) and the SD-8 tied to
its own independent and smaller aux battery that could run the ignition and
e-bus loads.
Just my .02 to throw into the fray....if I didn't have dual elec. ignition, I wouldn't
have the aux battery OR the SD-8...the extra weight and expense for most
sport flying, even light IFR, doesn't justify it IMHO. If I ever go full-IFR,
my Dynon will have the internal battery option....that way if my alternator
AND my main battery die, the engine will still be running on the aux battery
and my Dynon will keep me right side up and my hand-held equipment (ICOM nav/com
and handheld GPS) will get me to a suitable field with communication capability
intact...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D fwf stuff...
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Endurance buss - second battery wiring
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
<snip>
If I had
a vacuum pump pad open on my engine, it wouldn't take much
thinking about what I'd do with it. A pair of alternators
beats a pair of batteries in any poker game.
Bob . . .
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: 2 AWG WIRE THRU THE FIREWALL |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leonard Garceau" <lhgcpg@westriv.com>
Thanks Bob
Leonard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 2 AWG WIRE THRU THE FIREWALL
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 05:41 PM 3/16/2004 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Leonard Garceau"
> ><lhgcpg@westriv.com>
> >
> >What's the best method of running the 2AWG wire from the battery
contactor
> >thru the firewall? Do you run it without any junction at the firewall?
>
> See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Firewall_Penetration/firewall.html
>
> Bob . . .
>
> -----------------------------------------
> ( Experience and common sense cannot be )
> ( replaced with policy and procedures. )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> -----------------------------------------
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 03/15/04 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> Alex,
> What is best glide speed (IAS) in your RV-6A? Do you have to
> spin the prop
> again to attain best glide speed? Anyone have the best glide
> speed for the
> RV-8A?
> Stan Sutterfield
Warning: amateur advice ahead...
Stan, I haven't a clue. Within reason, I think best glide speed is a
little overrated. That being said, if my engine conks out I'll look for
about 80 knots indicated. What I think is very important is the speed
one has when on about a quarter mile final into the selected emergency
landing zone, and how one deals with the transition from glide to flare
to touchdown in their plane. The RV's will sink rapidly without power,
and one needs to understand that without power (idle thrust as compared
to engine drag) the flare will be much different. It is also important
to understand how to get rid of excess altitude (slips, turns, etc.).
Practicing power off landings is essential, which reminds me, I'm
overdue for that. In an RV, good practice is to be something like
2000'agl when in upwind directly over the touchdown zone. This allows
for a gentle, but continuous, 360 turn back around to touchdown.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 445 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: IComA200 Questions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:22 PM 3/16/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott"
><tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>About the ICOM A200:
>1. WRT the three auxiliary audio inputs, does the volume control of the A200
>affect the level of whatever auxiliary audio I'm playing through the A200?
>For example, If I run the marker beacon audio through one of these auxiliary
>inputs and I have the volume of the A200 turned all the way down, will I
>hear the marker?
>
>2. What happens with the auxiliary audio inputs when the A200 is turned off
>completely? Would the marker (or whatever) still "play through"?
>
>3. I'm assuming there must be audio isolation in the A200...
>
>4. WRT the transmit/receive interlock requirement, the ICOM instructions
>tell me how to interconnect two A200s. If I use this A200 with, for
>example, an Apollo SL30 or SL40, will I still have to accomplish the
>transmit/receive interlock?
Do you have an installation manual? I checked the website and could
only find an instruction manual. the installation manual should
tell you more. If, and this is a big IF, they configured the
built in iso-amp like radios of yore, the isolation amplifier is
powered separately from the rest of the radio and is available
whether or not the radio is turned on. Further, the radio
volume control does not affect other inputs to the isolation
amplifier. Don't know about your question on "xmit/rec interlock",
I'd need to see the suggested schematic.
Bob . . .
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: annunciator lights |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:46 PM 3/16/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott"
><tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>Where can I get a good deal on the Honeywell/Microswitch 45/59 series
>solid-state (LED lit) annunciator lights like the ones Vision MicroSystems
>used to sell? Lancair Avionics has them, but they want $38 for the
>annunciator/lens unit. That seems a little steep. I want 10 (maybe 16) of
>them. Here is a link to what I want:
> http://content.honeywell.com/sensing/prodinfo/pki/catalog/aml45_59.pdf
>
>Also, If any of you have a suggestion for a good substitute, I'd like to
>hear about it! I already know about the panels from Aircraft Simulators.
As you can tell from the AML45 catalog, there are 1001 combinations
of devices that can be specified. Each combination is ordered
from the factory and usually in quantities to support some production
activity. This device doesn't lend itself to being a catalog item
attractive to small-lot buyers. Lancair can offer them because they
order large quantities to support their custom panel services.
They might well be your best bet. I'm going to be talking with
Kirk Hammersmith in the next few days (formerly of Lancair)
and he might have some insight to offer for alternative and
attractive sources.
Bob . . .
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: low battery price that Spruce won't |
match
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
match
At 05:00 PM 3/16/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joa Harrison
><flyasuperseven@yahoo.com>
>
>
>Found http://www.gotbatteries.com/Productpage.asp?ProductNum=35L105S3 for
>$29 which is significantly less than the $68 price that Spruce
>wants. They wouldn't match the price. Makes you wonder why they have a
>low price policy.
>
>Is this a RG battery? Anybody have experience with this battery or the
>supplier that's selling it for the low price?
>
>Joa
It is an RG battery. PowerSonic isn't one of the big-name manufacturers
and doesn't have to support a big advertising budget. Give them a try.
If you plan to do battery-a-year preventative maintenance, this may
well be the ideal candidate.
Bob . . .
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Prop drag - windmilling and stopped |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:38 PM 3/16/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jacob & Grace"
><grizzlybear@klondiker.com>
>
>Someone not so long ago (can't remember who so you may have to identify
>yourself if you want to correct any errors) reported an engine failure.
>Everything went as well as could be expected and it was on very short final
>for the emergency field which was just in reach "when the prop stopped
>turning". I think the quote was "It was like someone turned the engine on
>again" and only through some aggresive maneuvers was a nasty overshoot of
>the landing space available avoided. Don't get caught here is the lesson I
>guess.
A non-turning prop presents a flat plate equivalent drag
while a turning prop takes horsepower out of the airstream
to overcome friction of the engine. Given that a prop has
a maximum efficiency of about 57% as an energy producer,
the 5-10 hp it takes to turn a dead engine translates
into 9-18 hp drain on your airframe's energy stored
as velocity and altitude . . . and THAT assumes an
between stationary and rotating.
The CAFE guys were trying to figure out a way to
evaluate l/d ratios on an airframe sans propeller. They
put motion sensors on prop shafts to measure the tiny
amount of end play that manifests itself when the prop
transitions from drag to thrust. They could deduce what
rpm produced zero thrust for the various airspeeds. By
maintaining a zero thrust rpm commensurate with a particular
airspeed, they could directly evaluate aerodynamic
characteristics of an airplane as if the propeller wasn't
there.
I recall conversations with folks on the CAFE instrumentation
team talking about how rate of decent flattens out when
the airplane is experiencing zero drag from the prop
and that was just a transition from flight idle to
zero thrust.
Bob . . .
Message 38
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| Subject: | Endurance buss - second battery wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:57 AM 3/17/2004 +1100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott, Ian"
><ian_scott@commander.com>
>
>Hi Bob, interesting data point for you,
>
>With a Jabiru 4 or 6 cylinder engine and their normal wooden prop, due the
>compression of the engine it will stop in flight, and after it stops it
>may take more than VNE to get it to wind mill.
>
>I believe this is doe to the compression, and you need to see more than
>300RPM for a re start, so there are certainly some aircraft that do not
>windmill. And require a starter to get the engine going again.
>
>
>thanks
>
>Ian
Thanks. I think this is common to the all the smaller engines that
swing small props. The Rotax engines will stop when deprived of
fuel or ignition on most installations.
Bob . . .
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: low battery price that Spruce won't match |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chad Robinson <crobinson@rfgonline.com>
Robert L. Nuckolls, III match wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
match
>
> At 05:00 PM 3/16/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joa Harrison
>><flyasuperseven@yahoo.com>
>>
>>
>>Found http://www.gotbatteries.com/Productpage.asp?ProductNum=35L105S3 for
>>$29 which is significantly less than the $68 price that Spruce
>>wants. They wouldn't match the price. Makes you wonder why they have a
>>low price policy.
>>
>>Is this a RG battery? Anybody have experience with this battery or the
>>supplier that's selling it for the low price?
>>
>>Joa
>
>
> It is an RG battery. PowerSonic isn't one of the big-name manufacturers
> and doesn't have to support a big advertising budget. Give them a try.
> If you plan to do battery-a-year preventative maintenance, this may
> well be the ideal candidate.
Bob, in the past you've mentioned some capacity-testing procedures. Can you
shed any insight on stress-testing procedures? Simply running the battery
through a few charge-discharge cycles doesn't seem very thorough to me. I can
envision some cycle tests at different (low to very high) discharge rates
followed by charges at different rates as well, but if there's anything
pre-existing that's a bit more formal I'd appreciate your input.
When working with a relatively unknown/new battery vendor it'd be nice to have
some testing procedures. Given the low cost of this battery I wouldn't think
twice to even destroy one in a destructive test to see how it would perform
under all sorts of conditions.
Regards,
Chad
Message 40
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
For RV builders, has anyone put antenna under the vertical stabilizer
fiberglas tip - i.e., transponder or ILS? Some guys are mounting a camera there,
but
I'd like to know if the long cable run would adversely affect avionics
performance. What about signal reception for the transponder or ILS? Do those
antenna need to be on the bottom of the aircraft? Mark Rowe mounted his
transponder antenna in a wheel pant and is getting good reception with it.
Stan Sutterfield
RV-8A
Tampa
Message 41
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" <tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
Gentlemen,
This may sound like an ignorant question. I hope not.... I plan to build
up the electrical system in my IFR Glasair using as many fuses (as opposed
to all breakers) as is reasonable. I want to use the minimum number of
breakers or switch/breakers. I've studied all the Z drawings, and the rest
of the book too. I believe the two electronic ignitions, the (single)
alternator output and the alternator field should have breakers..., agreed?
So what else needs breakers?
Regards,
Troy
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