Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:07 AM - Re: Instrument adaptating queations .... (n3eu@comcast.net)
2. 06:21 AM - Re: small high cca batteries (n3eu@comcast.net)
3. 07:28 AM - Re: starter relay testing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:32 AM - Re: small high cca batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:35 AM - Re: ground block (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:38 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:16 AM - Re: ground block (Jim Stone)
8. 10:01 AM - Johnathan Macy's question: Dual Batteries & Dual Electronic Ignition (Mark Banus)
9. 01:07 PM - Re: ground block (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 01:27 PM - Re: Instrument adaptating queations .... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 01:31 PM - Re: SL30/SL40 transmit/receive lockout? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 01:32 PM - Re: Current requirements for several common (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 01:40 PM - Connector Identification (John Cliff)
14. 02:17 PM - Re: Wiring the SD8 Warning light (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 02:27 PM - Re: Connector Identification (n3eu@comcast.net)
16. 06:02 PM - Fuel Flow gauge ... (Jim Sower)
17. 08:22 PM - Re: Fuel Flow gauge ... (Scott, Ian)
18. 08:55 PM - Re: Instrument adaptating queations .... (Jim Sower)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument adaptating queations .... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
Jim Sower wrote:
> I have a situation with my Velocity that I need some help on. I have 6
> Cyberdyne 2-1/8 instruments (oil press, temp, outside temp, L, R fuel qty,
> volts, etc.) with 5/8 LED readout and would like to add a couple and change a
> couple. However, what I want to do is a little out of my electronically
> challenged depth.
>
> I have generic float type fuel quantity senders that are abysmally
> inaccurate. I want to change them to capacitive unites so popular these days...
Capacitive senders can have considerable innacuracy too, if you will be using different
brands/types of fuel. One can look it up, but the dielectric constant
of gasolines varies all over the lot.
I just found it curious, on my new '04 Solara -- and while Toyota has used electronic
senders -- the Solara has a simple float and rheostat of olden days. Bet
it's the "miles remaining" display option, which is more uncannily accurate
than I would have bet even a beer on. For sure sender reading is linearized
and/or adjusted for tank geometry by its Hal 2000 computer. Hal even chews on
engine vibration data from engine mount sensors, taking whatever corrective action
the service manual doesn't say in 1,000 pages of diagnostics info. One really
smooth running V-6 though, and I doubt it's a cost issue for Toyota on this
poor man's Lexus class of vehicle.
Fred F.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: small high cca batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
Unless someone can favorably report actual experience, I'm leery even two of these
are going to work, much less provide enough assured airworthiness for an engine
which needs juice to fly. "Peak amps" I don't think are cranking amps,
but likely akin to short circuit amps like Odyssey publishes as a spec -- two
very different numbers. OK for hopefully enough kick for emergency automobile
starts, but I bet other issues will soon surface.
Fred F.
klehman@albedo.net wrote:
> I would like to use two batteries with my two alternators on my efi
> Subaru. For weight saving and the ability to rotate them, I am willing
> to try the $80. Ultra-start red batteries by Advanced Technology
> Products. 4.4 lbs ea., 5 AH, 250 peak amps.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: starter relay testing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:52 PM 3/19/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert McCallum
><robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/s702wire.jpg
Also not schematics for battery master contactors and starter
contactors in Z-figurs. Starter contactors ground their coils
through the base connection . . . continuous duty battery
contactors connect to isolated terminals and don't use the
base ground.
>Hi Bob ;
>
>I'm afraid that, yes, you're missing something and probably didn't get
>any "bad ones". Most starter solenoids have two "big" terminals which
>carry the heavy battery current to the starter motor. One goes to the
>battery (or battery contactor) the other goes to the starter. It doesn't
>normally matter which is which, they are interchangeable. Many also have
>two "small" terminals as is the case with the one you describe. Many
>times the ones with two small terminals are automotive starter
>solenoids. One of the small terminals is connected to the solenoid
>winding while the other end of the winding is almost always connected to
>ground. (in other words the "frame" of the solenoid) In order to
>energize the solenoid you must connect power between the correct small
>terminal and ground of the solenoid. (its frame) The other small
>terminal is used in the automotive application to bypass the ignition
>ballast resistor in order to increase spark intensity for starting. In
>an aircraft application this terminal is normally not used , but could,
>if desired, be employed to power a "starter engaged" light. It will
>become "live" when the solenoid is engaged. In starter solenoids with
>only one small terminal the other side of the winding is also grounded
>to the solenoid frame and thus the frame becomes one side of the
>electrical circuit in these types also. You can experiment safely to
>determine which is the "correct" small terminal by grounding the
>solenoid frame to your negative battery terminal and then connecting the
>positive battery terminal to one of the small terminals. The correct
>one will cause the solenoid to engage with an audible snap, the
>incorrect one will do nothing. The fan motor "load" you describe will
>"test" the large contacts for you as you intended. You can measure the
>coil resistance with your ohm meter but the coil is connected between
>one of the small terminals and ground not between the two small
>terminals. The test results you describe sound correct, the results you
>are getting are exactly as they should be, and I suspect your solenoid
>is probably working perfectly when properly connected.
>
>Bob McC
>
>Bob Bittner wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob Bittner <rbittner@us.ibm.com>
> >
> >I have a starter relay/solenoid from Aircraft Spruce, and I'm wondering if
> >there's more to the these things than I thought. In a bench test,
> >applying 12V from my battery to the front 2 small terminals yields no
> >response. There is no continuity between these terminals. I wired it up
> >as expected, and it doesn't do anything when switched on. It's not hooked
> >to the starter motor, so on the output a 12V, 1A fan (for some load). .
> >The reason I'm asking is because the first one I got from them had the
> >same inoperative characteristics, and this one's a replacement. Shouldn't
> >I be able to measure some resistance across the coil? For example, on the
> >one they sent me for a master relay, there's 15ohms of resistance, which
> >seems ok, but more draw than I'd like. Did I just get 2 bad ones, or am I
> >missing something?
> >Thanks.
> >
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: small high cca batteries |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:50 PM 3/21/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: klehman@albedo.net
>
>Hi
>
>I would like to use two batteries with my two alternators on my efi
>Subaru. For weight saving and the ability to rotate them, I am willing
>to try the $80. Ultra-start red batteries by Advanced Technology
>Products. 4.4 lbs ea., 5 AH, 250 peak amps. However their web site
>www.startstick.com has been closed/under construction for a long time
>which makes me wonder if these batteries will be available in the
>future. I thought there would be a market for such a battery for small
>engine starting but perhaps not.
>
>Are they the only source of such a battery? I have not been able to find
>any other sources but perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places. Certainly
>5AH and similar batteries are available with low discharge rates but I
>haven't found any other high current units below about 12AH and 12 lbs.
>Batteries with faston connectors are obviously unsuitable.
>
>Comments from anyone who has experience with these batteries or ATP
>would be appreciated.
I believe the Start Stick was based on the Bolder thin film
technology batteries which didn't fly in the market and the
company folded a couple of years ago.
Even in their finest hour, the TFT batteries were flaky
and unreliable. Not ready for prime time in aircraft.
If it were my airplane, I used a pair of 17 a.h. batteries
in the 3 x 7 x 7 inch formal. $35 to $60 each, inexpensive,
robust and made by everybody who is anybody in the battery
business.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: ground block |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:02 PM 3/21/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jrstone@insightbb.com>
>
>I have a B&C firwall mounted grounding block to be mounted in my RV. I
>would like to pentrate the firewall down low (just above the cockpit
>floor) with the negative cable from the battery (located aft). I would
>not like to locate the grounding block down there.
>Since the firewall is made of SS, can I terminate the negative cable down
>low with a suitable bolt, and locate my grounding block at a more
>accessable location (up higher)? Or, do I need to run a #2 jumper on the
>engine side to connect the two?
Why "penetrate" the firewall with the battery (-) cable?
Just take it to the ground block bolt on the inside of the
cabin. Ground engine to same bolt with bonding jumper.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:05 PM 3/19/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rino Lacombe" <lacombr@nbnet.nb.ca>
>
>Anyone know the Radio Shack # for the inductro used to filter noisy devices.
>I have a Turn Coordinator that has to be silenced
>
>Thanks
>
>Rino
see http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/filter/filter.html
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: ground block |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jrstone@insightbb.com>
> >I have a B&C firwall mounted grounding block to be mounted in my RV. I
> >would like to pentrate the firewall down low (just above the cockpit
> >floor) with the negative cable from the battery (located aft). I would
> >not like to locate the grounding block down there.
> >Since the firewall is made of SS, can I terminate the negative cable down
> >low with a suitable bolt, and locate my grounding block at a more
> >accessable location (up higher)? Or, do I need to run a #2 jumper on the
> >engine side to connect the two?
>
> Why "penetrate" the firewall with the battery (-) cable?
> Just take it to the ground block bolt on the inside of the
> cabin. Ground engine to same bolt with bonding jumper.
>
> Bob . . .
My airplane has a natural route to run the battery cables forward. It
is basically along the floor, through the spar cut out for the control stick
linkages, and then forward to the firewall. Now to run it from the floor at
the firewall up to where it is convenient to have all the grounds com
together for the instrument panel and on the forward side, engine
compartment, I would have to have this big #2 wire running up the inside of
the panel, through a very full space loaded with things like brake pedals,
hoses, wires, fuse panels, voltage regualtors, avionics, control cables and
heater hoses. However, I could do it that way if you think it best. I just
thought using a bolt the size of the one on the ground block to attach the
cable to the firewall down low would be easier, lighter and be a more
professional looking install.
Thanks,
Jim
========================================================================
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Johnathan Macy's question: Dual Batteries & Dual Electronic |
Ignition
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Banus" <mbanus@hotmail.com>
Bob, did you miss this one?
Tue Mar 16 - 5:50 PM JOHNATHAN MACY Dual Batteries & Dual Electronic
Ignition
Mark Banus
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: ground block |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:15 PM 3/22/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Stone" <jrstone@insightbb.com>
>
> > >I have a B&C firwall mounted grounding block to be mounted in my RV. I
> > >would like to pentrate the firewall down low (just above the cockpit
> > >floor) with the negative cable from the battery (located aft). I would
> > >not like to locate the grounding block down there.
> > >Since the firewall is made of SS, can I terminate the negative cable down
> > >low with a suitable bolt, and locate my grounding block at a more
> > >accessable location (up higher)? Or, do I need to run a #2 jumper on the
> > >engine side to connect the two?
> >
> > Why "penetrate" the firewall with the battery (-) cable?
> > Just take it to the ground block bolt on the inside of the
> > cabin. Ground engine to same bolt with bonding jumper.
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
> My airplane has a natural route to run the battery cables forward. It
>is basically along the floor, through the spar cut out for the control stick
>linkages, and then forward to the firewall. Now to run it from the floor at
>the firewall up to where it is convenient to have all the grounds com
>together for the instrument panel and on the forward side, engine
>compartment, I would have to have this big #2 wire running up the inside of
>the panel, through a very full space loaded with things like brake pedals,
>hoses, wires, fuse panels, voltage regualtors, avionics, control cables and
>heater hoses. However, I could do it that way if you think it best. I just
>thought using a bolt the size of the one on the ground block to attach the
>cable to the firewall down low would be easier, lighter and be a more
>professional looking install.
That would work. I take some effort to torque mounting hardware
for ground block up to recommended structural maximums for the
hardware sizes. You're using firewall sheet to make the connection.
A jumber between the lower joint and ground block wouldn't hurt
but I don't think it's necessary. With charging,cranking
and outlying airframe currents flowing through the lower joint, it
will be okay to use the firewall sheet to carry currents for panel
mounted hardware to the lower joint.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument adaptating queations .... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 06:15 PM 3/21/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Sower <canarder@frontiernet.net>
>
>Boys and girls,
>I have a situation with my Velocity that I need some help on. I have 6
>Cyberdyne 2-1/8 instruments (oil press, temp, outside temp, L, R fuel qty,
>volts, etc.) with 5/8 LED readout and would like to add a couple and change a
>couple. However, what I want to do is a little out of my electronically
>challenged depth.
>
>I have generic float type fuel quantity senders that are abysmally
>inaccurate. I want to change them to capacitive unites so popular these days,
>but I dont know if the display mechanism is compatible with the senders.
probably not
>When I call the capacitive fuel sender folks and ask about this, I anticipate
>they will want to no some engineering specs on the display. I need to know
>what kinds of questions to ask the display folks.
if you have indicators, you need to tell them what the resistance
and full-scale current characteristics are of the indicators.
>I want to install a load meter (actually, I want to install two shunts on the
>firewall: one in the alternator output circuit and one in the line going to
>all the buss on the panel, selectable through a DPDT switch). My battery and
>all my heavy cable is back on the firewall. I want to get a couple of the B&C
>shunts that Bob touts and wire to a remote indicator on the panel. To do
>this, if it were an analog meter, I would have to gut a voltmeter or ammeter
>down to the basic galvanometer and match it to the shunt.
Yup, 50 mv movements are commonly used with off-the-shelf
shunts. For switching between two shunts of different current
values, you can do either dual-scale instrument or a single
scale marked in %. You could label the switch something like
ALT 60A, Bus 40A or, if they're both the same size shunt, just
adjust the scale plate to reflect that value. I can supply
you an instrument as illustrated here:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Loadmeter_2.jpg
> For digital
>indicators, I dont know what I will have to do to match indicator
>characteristics with shunt attributes. Again, I need to know what to ask the
>B&C guys about their shunts and what to ask the Cyberdyne guys about their
>indicator.
The shuts are 50 mv, your instrument needs to present the appropriate
full scale value when 50 mv is applied to the instrument.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: SL30/SL40 transmit/receive lockout? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:24 PM 3/21/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott"
><tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>I'm about to install an Apollo SL30 nav-com and an Apollo SL40 com into the
>same panel using no audio panel. The plan is to use Bob's AeroElectric
>Audio Isolation Amplifier and a transmit selector switch labeled Transmit
>SL30 / Transmit SL40. I can't find anything in the installation manuals
>about a transmit/receive lockout feature to shut off the receiver in one
>while the other is transmitting. I'm concerned about this because I read in
>the instruction manual for a radio of a different brand (ICOM A200) that
>when using two in the same airplane (even with separate antennas) this
>transmit/receive interconnect must be accomplished in order to avoid damage
>to the receiver sections of the radios. Shed some light here, please!
it's not a damage issue but one of feedback and/or severe overloading
of the radio in "receive" mode that may take several seconds for it to
recover . . . or the overloaded receiver may go into fits and howls . . .
but probably not.
>I spoke with a fellow at GarminAT tech support. He said he knew of no such
>feature in these units.
because it doesn't need it
> Even after I stressed that my concern is for the
>receiver sections of the units, he indicated that the problem being
>addressed in the ICOM A200 manual is probably related to possible audio
>feedback and that audio feedback can somehow expose the OTHER radio's
>receiver section to damage?!?!???. However, I'm still confused and
>unconvinced. How can AUDIO isolation of the two units protect the RECEIVER
>section of one radio from the radiated energy from the other radio's
>transmitter?
There's no risk of physical damage. Wire it up and see what the
receiving transceiver does when you transmit on the other. You probably
won't have to do anything special.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Current requirements for several common |
parts
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
parts
At 06:28 AM 3/21/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hi There <rv90619@yahoo.com>
>
>
>I've started wiring my plane this weekend. I've got most of it all sorted
>it out as far as wire sizes go, except there are a few things I can't find
>any info of, although all the diagrams I find have a wire size for
>them. Those items are:
>
>
>Starter relay 4A but not part of a RUNNING LOAD
>
>Master relay 0.8A continuous in all modes except battery only via e-bus
>alternate feed
>
>Van's boost fuel pump Intermitant . . . use 1A
>
>Fuel primer relay Itermittant . . . figure 0.2A
>
>Hobbs meter Insignifanct. Use 0.01A continuous
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 13
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| Subject: | Connector Identification |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Cliff" <mx@crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
I have a strobe pwer supply (Nova EPS-404) whose lamp connectors are described
as 'Mate-n-lok', but which don't seem to resemble the forms of Amp mate-n-lok
commonly on sale in the UK..
The plug moulding, with socket contacts, is marked "AMP CPS-3". Can anyone
identify this connector more closely - I want to buy the other halves ?
John Cliff
Europa
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring the SD8 Warning light |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:00 AM 3/20/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Holland" <hollandm@pacbell.net>
>
>I'm wiring the SD8 as a backup alternator. The B&C wiring diagram
>includes an alternator warning light fed from the S704 relay, which
>seemed like a good idea until I tried to follow Bob's Z13. B&C has you
>wire the SD8 output to the battery master bus which turns the warning
>light off with the master switch, but if you wire, per Z13, the light
>remains on regardless since the output is wired to the battery. Is there
>any issue/problem in wiring the SD output to the essential bus so that the
>light will turn off with the master?
wire it per Z-13 and leave the light off (you'll note that it's not
shown on Z-13 while it is shown on Figure Z-16). The warning light
is not useful for a Z-13 installation.
>Also, have there been any EMI issues with SD8 subpanel components,
>including the regulator, capacitor and relay. I ask since they are
>relatively close to my instruments.
not that I've heard of.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Connector Identification |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
Did you try www.amp.com (division of Tyco)? Tried it quickly but seems you
may need "CPS 3" w/o the hyphen in keyword search, but I'll let you do
further mouse-click boogie. In the U.S, my source for AMP stuff is
digi-key.com.
Reg,
Fred F.
> I have a strobe power supply (Nova EPS-404) whose lamp connectors are
> described as 'Mate-n-lok', but which don't seem to resemble the forms
> of Amp mate-n-lok commonly on sale in the UK..
>
> The plug moulding, with socket contacts, is marked "AMP CPS-3". Can anyone
> identify this connector more closely - I want to buy the other halves ?
>
> John Cliff
Message 16
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| Subject: | Fuel Flow gauge ... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Sower <canarder@frontiernet.net>
Does anyone have any experience with the Micro-1000 Mizer fuel flow gauge on p-363
of the
ASS catalog? I'm considering one but would like to hear recommendations for and
against if
anyone has any first- or second-hand info.
Thanks ... Jim S.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Fuel Flow gauge ... |
QUARANTINE_LEVEL=4.0 KILL_LEVEL=5.0 tests=BAYES_44
pts rule name description
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-0.0 BAYES_44 BODY": Bayesian.spam
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott, Ian" <ian_scott@commander.com>
if it is the same as http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/fuelmizer.php
I understand that they are quite good, the instrument is made by Navman in New
Zealand, as a marine instrument, and they make a special modified flow transducer
that is set up to cope with Avgas.
They are about $300 Australian, which would be about $230USD plus shipping from
some Australasian sites.
I am instilling the big brother, that does dual flow, and also is GPS integrated,
search for NAVMAN fuel flow, and you should find it.
Ian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim
Sower
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Flow gauge ...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Sower <canarder@frontiernet.net>
Does anyone have any experience with the Micro-1000 Mizer fuel flow gauge on p-363
of the
ASS catalog? I'm considering one but would like to hear recommendations for and
against if
anyone has any first- or second-hand info.
Thanks ... Jim S.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument adaptating queations .... |
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Sower <canarder@frontiernet.net>
<... Yup, 50 mv movements are commonly used with off-the-shelf shunts. For switching
between two shunts of different current values, you can do either dual-scale instrument
or a
single ...>
Movements are well and good. I can understand that. What I'm trying to adapt
is a digital
display. How do I reduce a digital display to a 50mv galvanometer? That was the
original
question. I've got digital displays that massage the input (volts, gallons, deg
F, whatever)
and display it numerically. How do I modify a digital voltmeter to display amps
across a
shunt?
Still wonderin' .... Jim S.
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