---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/26/04: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:36 AM - Separate start battery for Plasma II, Part II (Mark Neubauer) 2. 05:40 AM - Re: Hybrid 14/28V system (Eric M. Jones) 3. 06:03 AM - Re: Separate start battery for Plasma III (James E. Clark) 4. 06:40 AM - Re: Smoke Test - problem (Jim Sower) 5. 07:34 AM - Re: Separate start battery for Plasma II, (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 08:49 AM - Re: Separate start battery for Plasma II, Part II (James Redmon) 7. 09:35 AM - Re: Separate start battery for Plasma II, Part (Chad Robinson) 8. 09:35 AM - Re: Separate start battery for Plasma II, (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 09:48 AM - Re: Separate start battery for Plasma II, Part (Chad Robinson) 10. 10:29 AM - Re: Battery contact screws (Chad Robinson) 11. 10:36 AM - Re: Separate start battery for Plasma II, Part II (James Redmon) 12. 11:43 AM - LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux (Sam Hoskins) 13. 01:57 PM - Re: Separate start battery for Plasma II, Part II (James Redmon) 14. 02:34 PM - Re: Separate start battery for Plasma II, (Scott Bilinski) 15. 04:45 PM - Essential Bus Heat Sink (Gerry Clabots) 16. 05:04 PM - Re: Essential Bus Heat Sink (Ross Mickey) 17. 07:27 PM - Re: LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 18. 07:50 PM - Re: Essential Bus Heat Sink (Richard E. Tasker) 19. 11:52 PM - Ebay bargain (richard@riley.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:27 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Separate start battery for Plasma II, Part II From: "Mark Neubauer" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Neubauer" Thanks for the numerous responses to my posting from two days ago. My observations: Bob's test on his GMC van confirmed what I thought might be the case - a huge in-rush current exists for a brief period at the start of a cranking event and the LSE units don't like this spike nearby, sometimes causing them to "hiccup". Whether this can be avoided with changes to the LSE units is immaterial, inasmuch as I doubt Klaus will ask for mine back to modify. Using a computer-grade diode to isolate the CDIs from this spike brings into the schematic another device which may result in a single failure mode, which I don't like with my plane having two LSE units. So, I conclude the following: I like using a separate isolated battery since it avoids the spike issue completely. True, it adds another switch to the system, but the mechanical engineer in me will take a good DPDT switch over a diode for reliability and troubleshooting ease. Further, having a separate, small (3 Ah) battery provides that last bit of back-up when/if all else in the aircraft's electrical system goes "Foxtrot-Uniform" . Flip the isolation switch at that time and you have a direct battery feed to the CDIs independent of everything else in the system. The current draw on each LSE unit is spec'd at 1.3A, so a 3 Ah capacity should be good for two hours of pucker-free operation. DigiKey lists a 12v sealed battery at 3.4 Ah weighing 2.6 lbs. for $25. Sounds like good insurance to me. BTW, I have always assumed this battery would be lead-acid RG chemistry for electrical characteristics consistency and avoid charging problems for the alternators. Mark Neubauer GlaStar N875ED (hopefully flying someday in 2005) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:02 AM PST US From: "Eric M. Jones" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hybrid 14/28V system --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" (Do not archive) >Gianni Zuliani wrote: > I'm planning to implement a 14V system very similar to your Z-13 schematic, > but including the possibility to power a 28V radio.... I turned my 6" Atlas lathe into a 10" South Bend lathe like this-- 1) Unplugged and sold the 6" Atlas on eBay.com for an excellent price. 2) Bought the 10" South Bend on eBay.com for an excellent price, plugged it in. I suggest something similar for the radio. Regards, Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge MA 01550-2705 Phone (508) 764-2072 Email: emjones@charter.net ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:35 AM PST US From: "James E. Clark" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Separate start battery for Plasma III --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" Just a "ditto" on Ken's comment as I was there with him taking the measurements. An interesting question though (for me) is the following: What if the voltage we were measuring dropped to 4 volts for just a msec (faster than what we could detect) and then immediately came up to 8 and stayed there for the few seconds of cranking? If the LSE "sees" 4 volts at ***ANY*** time and thus will NOT fire, at what voltage must it's supply climb back UP to before it is ready to fire again?? Seems like I recall hysteresis effects on certain circuits from college days MANY MOONS ago. Or maybe I am totally off my rocker on this one. :-) James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ken > Harrill > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:57 AM > To: 'aeroelectric-list@matronics.com' > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Separate start battery for Plasma III > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken Harrill > > > > -----Original Message----- > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > > > LSE ignition units work as low as 4~5 volts if memory serves, its > listed on > their web site. If your idea of the second battery works then either the > IGN system has a problem or you by passed the problem somewhere else. > > > Scott, > > On my RV-6, the voltage (measured at the ignition module) drops > to around 8 > volts with the starter engaged, and the LSE does not fire at that voltage, > regardless of what Klause claims. > > > Ken Harrill > RV-6, 300+ hours > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:21 AM PST US From: Jim Sower Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Smoke Test - problem --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Sower <... > switch > small lamp from B&C (pump "on" warning) > pump ... switch "on", the light comes on but the pump doesn't run ... I jumpered from the switch to the pump + terminal and the pump ran ...> If light is in series with pump, it won't pass enough current to run pump. Wire light from pump (+) to pump (-). That way, it will light when pump is ON and not if switch is OFF or fuze blows. It will stay lit if pump fails (open) internally, but there's not much you can do about that. Just a theory ... Jim S. Rick Fogerson wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rick Fogerson" > > Hi Bob, > I've got a head scratcher (for me anyway) on my electric pump circuit. Details as follows: > > 1) Circuit (20 AWG) goes from hot side of battery > aux battery bus > 7A CB > switch > small lamp from B&C (pump "on" warning) > pump. > > 2) As wired and with the switch "on", the light comes on but the pump doesn't run. The voltage across the pump terminals shows only 0.8 volts. > > 3) To test the pump, I jumpered from the switch to the pump + terminal and the pump ran. > > Do you think the lamp is creating the problem or is there some other electrical gremlin at work here? > > Thanks, Rick Fogerson > RV3 (90% done and 90% to go) > Boise, ID > -- Jim Sower ... Destiny's Plaything Crossville, TN; Chapter 5 Long-EZ N83RT, Velocity N4095T ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:55 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Separate start battery for Plasma II, Part II --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:35 AM 3/26/2004 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Neubauer" > > >Thanks for the numerous responses to my posting from two days ago. My >observations: > >Bob's test on his GMC van confirmed what I thought might be the case - a >huge in-rush current exists for a brief period at the start of a cranking >event and the LSE units don't like this spike nearby, sometimes causing >them to "hiccup". > >Whether this can be avoided with changes to the LSE units is immaterial, >inasmuch as I doubt Klaus will ask for mine back to modify. > >Using a computer-grade diode to isolate the CDIs from this spike brings >into the schematic another device which may result in a single failure >mode, which I don't like with my plane having two LSE units. > >So, I conclude the following: > >I like using a separate isolated battery since it avoids the spike issue >completely. True, it adds another switch to the system, but the mechanical >engineer in me will take a good DPDT switch over a diode for reliability >and troubleshooting ease. Further, having a separate, small (3 Ah) battery >provides that last bit of back-up when/if all else in the aircraft's >electrical system goes "Foxtrot-Uniform" . Flip the isolation switch at >that time and you have a direct battery feed to the CDIs independent of >everything else in the system. The current draw on each LSE unit is spec'd >at 1.3A, so a 3 Ah capacity should be good for two hours of pucker-free >operation. DigiKey lists a 12v sealed battery at 3.4 Ah weighing 2.6 lbs. >for $25. Sounds like good insurance to me. One can be insurance-poor while still not solving the problem . . . >BTW, I have always assumed this battery would be lead-acid RG chemistry >for electrical characteristics consistency and avoid charging problems for >the alternators. What single point of failure? You only need for one ignition to work to get the engine running. If you can simply delay turning on one ignition until after the engine is cranking, then no mods are necessary. If you can add a capacitor-diode combo to one ignition then the problem is solved without affecting the other ignition system. Let's narrow the study down to an event that happens during a window of a second or two every flight cycle and run that dog to ground while minimizing parts count (a part that isn't there cannot fail), minimizing cost of ownership (batteries that are not there do not need to be maintained), etc. A 13th century philosopher once offered an illuminating simple http://wotug.ukc.ac.uk/parallel/www/occam/occam-bio.html In all of the possible solutions, there resides the most elegant, simple answer that meets the goals with the least parts and pilot/mechanic attention. The most obvious "solution" was for the product to be immune to the stresses now identified as antagonistic. Since you can't control the product, then control the environment in which it operates. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:58 AM PST US From: "James Redmon" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Separate start battery for Plasma II, Part II --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" Bob, Can you point me to an existing circuit drawing with this "cap+diode" configuration or would I just place a rated capacitor in parallel with the ignition power leads for a single ignition? I have a Plasma II+ with one mag (non-impulse), a PM starter and plan engine start this weekend. I would like to be prepared if I run into the same issues. James Redmon Berkut #013 N97TX http://www.berkut13.com > If you can add a capacitor-diode combo to one ignition > then the problem is solved without affecting the other ignition > system. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:49 AM PST US From: Chad Robinson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Separate start battery for Plasma II, Part II --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chad Robinson Mark Neubauer wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Neubauer" > > > Thanks for the numerous responses to my posting from two days ago. My > observations: > > Bob's test on his GMC van confirmed what I thought might be the case - a > huge in-rush current exists for a brief period at the start of a cranking > event and the LSE units don't like this spike nearby, sometimes causing > them to "hiccup". > > Whether this can be avoided with changes to the LSE units is immaterial, > inasmuch as I doubt Klaus will ask for mine back to modify. > > Using a computer-grade diode to isolate the CDIs from this spike brings > into the schematic another device which may result in a single failure > mode, which I don't like with my plane having two LSE units. > > So, I conclude the following: > > I like using a separate isolated battery since it avoids the spike issue > completely. True, it adds another switch to the system, but the mechanical > engineer in me will take a good DPDT switch over a diode for reliability > and troubleshooting ease. Further, having a separate, small (3 Ah) battery > provides that last bit of back-up when/if all else in the aircraft's > electrical system goes "Foxtrot-Uniform" . Flip the isolation switch at > that time and you have a direct battery feed to the CDIs independent of > everything else in the system. The current draw on each LSE unit is spec'd > at 1.3A, so a 3 Ah capacity should be good for two hours of pucker-free > operation. DigiKey lists a 12v sealed battery at 3.4 Ah weighing 2.6 lbs. > for $25. Sounds like good insurance to me. Are you going to follow Bob's best practices for battery maintenance? What if your battery dies? Batteries have many more failure modes than diodes and switches. Adding a battery adds a lot more hassle than a diode and capacitor, and the whole combination will be MUCH lighter than the battery and switch. To kill a diode you need to exceed either its current or voltage ratings for a period of time. You can get a 100V 40A Schottky from Digikey for $2.77, far more current than the switch could handle. And transient voltage spikes won't last long enough to wipe it out. MTBFs for diodes are generally rated in the millions of hours, and they're as easy to diagnose as a switch. You just check both directions - current should flow in one, but not in the other. The capacitor is the same story. You can get a 40V 4700uF aluminum electrolytic from DigiKey for $3.58 (this is a pretty high grade). 40V is its maximum charge voltage - it will take a brief spike without complaint because it won't charge fast enough to hurt itself. That's why capacitors have a smoothing effect on voltage. Capacitor failure rates are around 3000 hours for the device I picked, so you do have a maintenance item - just replace it at overhaul. It's not rocket science. So you're looking at a potentially <$6 solution that weighs all of two ounces, mostly in the capacitor. A switch and battery, on the other hand, introduce all sorts of problems. They're many times heavier, and many times more expensive. You're also installing a battery to support a transient load, so it's total overkill. I understand your point about pucker factor but a properly designed electrical system with a redundant main battery or alternator would provide the same fault tolerance in the event of a failure, and it would be less pilot workload during an emergency. Most important, it may be LESS reliable in the long run. What if your switch fails in flight, how will you know before your engine dies? Switches are much more failure-prone than any of the devices listed above. It's also why Bob advocates not having a master avionics switch - it's a single point of failure. This switch would be a single point of failure for your ignition. Would you install a switch warning light with a circuit that senses a low-voltage condition on the ignition system's battery bus? Now you're really increasing weight and parts count. What if you just forget to flip the switch? It's fine to say you'll never forget but we have warning buzzers for various things for a reason. If you want redundancy in the control circuit you could put two diodes in parallel much more cheaply and without visible effect compared to two switches in parallel. Bob would probably not approve, since it's sort of like installing a TVS to catch a spike that doesn't exist, but it's cheap insurance, right? What about the battery? Will you follow Bob's battery maintenance suggestions, or could an engine re-start in flight leave you hanging because it wasn't charging for some reason and only had enough juice to get you off the ground? Will you rotate them out every year like your main battery? This could get expensive. One last comment. The diode and capacitor are what an engineer would have installed INSIDE the LSE to fix this problem. (In fact you can do without the diode, but it helps ensure the capacitor only tries to feed the critical ignition subsystem.) Is the correct fix outside the box so bad? Sorry I was so vehement, I must be picking some vibes up from Bob. =) Regards, Chad ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:49 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Separate start battery for Plasma II, Part II --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:46 AM 3/26/2004 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" > >Bob, > >Can you point me to an existing circuit drawing with this "cap+diode" >configuration or would I just place a rated capacitor in parallel with the >ignition power leads for a single ignition? > >I have a Plasma II+ with one mag (non-impulse), a PM starter and plan engine >start this weekend. I would like to be prepared if I run into the same >issues. Before we rush out and buy parts to bolt to an airplane, it's useful to see if the idea is REALLY useful. The BEST place to start is to get the manufacturer to quantify the task. (1) What's the minimum voltage the ignition system can tolerate and not become confused? (2) If the system DOES become confused, will it recover gracefully if the voltage rises above that threshold? (3) Would it be useful to add a diode in series with the ignition system and then parallel a capacitor across the power input leads to the ignition system? (4) What size capacitor would you recommend? (5) Would it be helpful to leave the ignition system OFF until after the engine is in motion during the task of getting the engine started? If useful answers are not forthcoming . . . then we can always do our own experiments to get the answers. However, I'll suggest that any responsible manufacturer owes you answers that make sense. It's not sufficient for me to supply products to the certified world without being prepared and able to address every question of interest to my customers. This is completely separate from issues of certification. Further, just because certification isn't required doesn't give any supplier a pass on timely, forthright and accurate responses to a customer's system integration and operational questions. I'm not trying to brush you off . . . just have lots of things on my plate right now. I could launch into a project to deduce answers to these questions . . . but anyone else can do it too. I'd encourage anyone having an interest in this topic to contact Lightspeed and open a dialog to discuss alternatives to a separate battery that supports an electronic ignition system solely for the purpose of keeping it awake during a few seconds at the beginning of each flight cycle. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:12 AM PST US From: Chad Robinson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Separate start battery for Plasma II, Part II --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chad Robinson James Redmon wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" > > Bob, > > Can you point me to an existing circuit drawing with this "cap+diode" > configuration or would I just place a rated capacitor in parallel with the > ignition power leads for a single ignition? > > I have a Plasma II+ with one mag (non-impulse), a PM starter and plan engine > start this weekend. I would like to be prepared if I run into the same > issues. > > James Redmon > Berkut #013 N97TX > http://www.berkut13.com I haven't reinstalled my schematics capture package but here's a crude ASCII representation (you need a fixed-width font to see it properly, if it comes out strange and you run Windows, cut/paste it into Notepad): Diode Main bus >-------|>[-----+-------> LSE | --- + --- Cap | GND Note that an electrolytic capacitor is polarized. One side will be clearly labeled with a polarity marker. Usually it's the negative side, which goes to ground. Be sure you install it in the correct direction. If the diode in the picture isn't clear, the arrow points to the right. This is just like making a little endurance bus just for the LSE with a capacitor to stabilize its voltage. Regards, Chad ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:38 AM PST US From: Chad Robinson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery contact screws --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chad Robinson Bob, you recommended 4 AWG for the cranking circuit. I'm seriously considering a front-battery setup in my pusher which makes for a lengthy run to the engine. Should I go with 2 AWG, or all the way down to 0? The batteries would be at around FS4 and the engine is at around FS140, and add a few feet to get from centerline to the electrical conduit, which is along the outside edge of the fuse. I seem to recall you having some rule of thumb for power dissipated by the wiring to the starter during cranking, but can't seem to find it. Thanks, Chad ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:32 AM PST US From: "James Redmon" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Separate start battery for Plasma II, Part II --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" Minor correction below - I meant to say (impulse-coupled) mag, but it doesn't really make any difference for this question. Just my anal-side showing through. ;-p -James ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Redmon" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Separate start battery for Plasma II, Part II > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" > > Bob, > > Can you point me to an existing circuit drawing with this "cap+diode" > configuration or would I just place a rated capacitor in parallel with the > ignition power leads for a single ignition? > > I have a Plasma II+ with one mag (non-impulse), a PM starter and plan engine > start this weekend. I would like to be prepared if I run into the same > issues. > > James Redmon > Berkut #013 N97TX > http://www.berkut13.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:54 AM PST US From: "Sam Hoskins" Subject: AeroElectric-List: LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" I am not having a lot of luck solving the LSE noise issue. I get a background tone is when the LSE is switched on, whether or not the engine is running. At Klaus' request I moved the com antenna coax away from the LSE 12V power leads. I shielded the 12V lead running from the battery to the CB. I then bridged the shielding across the CB so it connects with the shield on the 12V input lead. I still get the noise through my headset if the LSE is "ON", though it seems to have diminished somewhat. I tried installing the Radio Shack noise filter. At my first run, the capacitor blew up. The markings on the capacitor are not intuitive and I apparently got the polarity wrong. Went to R.S. and bought a replacement 220 microfarad, this time I got a 35V version. I hooked it up again. At first there seemed to be no change. Then, after a little fiddling, the tone seemed to fade in and out, as if someone was slowly turning a volume control. Then, after that, I still got the tone quite steady. The only thing I have not yet done is to run the LSE shielded ground (yes shielded, it is not shown on the on-line versions, but on my wiring diagram the wires coming from pins 15 & 8 on the input connector are shielded http://www.lsecorp.com/Manuals/PIIPIIPInputDiagram.htm ) ground from the control module, all the way to the battery. Right now the ground is plugged into my firewall ground bus. Has anyone else had noise and radio problems with their LSE Plasma III? I could use some experience here. Thanks Sam Q-200 ~ 1,350 hours --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > At 08:45 AM 3/23/2004 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" > > >I thought I was finished with the installation of my LSE Plasma III into my >all composite Q-200. I am running the one mag/one electronic system. I >went out for the test flight, but the tower was unable to read me. >"Aircraft calling ground, unreadable". Have you listened to the output from your transmitter? You need to have someone else talk to you while you're on a hand held 100' or more away. What does the radio sound like? An "unreadable" report may have nothing to do with the ignition system. Does the tower say you're now quite clear with the ignition system off? >After I fiddled with the squelch, I found there was a mid-range tone, quite >loud, whenever I had the LSE switched ON. I shut down the engine and found >the same thing; the noise was just as bad. (I have a Wag-Aero ICS Plus >Nav/Com, about 12 years old). If you're hearing noise in your headphones, then this may not have anything to do with the radio. It might be an audio system problem. >I called Klaus and he said I was picking up inductive coupling from the >oscillator. I admit I had diverted from his instructions just a little bit. >For the 12V supply I ran an unshielded wire from the battery to a 5A breaker >in the panel. From there, his shielded wire runs to the LSE brain box. The >shielded ground wire runs from the brain box to the ground buss, which is >mounted about 18" aft of the firewall. His instructions say it should go >all the way to the battery. shielded ground wire????? >My com antenna lead is RG58 and it runs in intimate proximity with the >unshielded 12V supply line to the battery. The com antenna is in the >vertical stab, and the battery is in the baggage compartment, aft of the >passenger seat. If you are hearing power supply noise from the ignition system then it's 1000% better to filter it off at the source than to re-route wires in an attempt to "live with the noise". >Klaus suggested separating the com antenna leads from any power leads, and >run shielded wire, straight to the battery per plans, including the CB. That >is what I now intend to do. > > >Any more thoughts or suggestions? These are all shots in the dark. Have you read the chapter on noise? What experiments have you run to make sure we're talking about the right antagonist, the right victim and then isolate the propagation mode? If Klaus or anyone else has you changing configuration of your installation wiring in an attempt to mitigate a noise problem, then they're admitting that their product isn't really suited for installation in your airplane. Let's chop and hack on things because we've deduced the action to be a useful thing to try instead of trying lots of things because they "might" help. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:13 PM PST US From: "James Redmon" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Separate start battery for Plasma II, Part II --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" All true points. I was only suggesting the procurement of knowledge at this point, not parts. Don't even know if I will have a problem at all. Personally, I'll see how engine start (or at least the attempt) goes tomorrow, and go from there. All systems are per Z-12 and I have had (knock on wood) no problems what so ever thus far - all have been tested except engine driven equipment. You bet I'll be gathering data...will report findings - actually hoping there will be none to report. ;-) -James > >Can you point me to an existing circuit drawing with this "cap+diode" > >configuration or would I just place a rated capacitor in parallel with the > >ignition power leads for a single ignition? > > > >I have a Plasma II+ with one mag (non-impulse), a PM starter and plan engine > >start this weekend. I would like to be prepared if I run into the same > >issues. > > Before we rush out and buy parts to bolt to an airplane, > it's useful to see if the idea is REALLY useful. The > BEST place to start is to get the manufacturer to quantify > the task. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:02 PM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Separate start battery for Plasma II, Part II --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski Just a FYI. I have 3 firewall thru holes for cables. One for power, one for instrumentation, and the other for the wires from the brain box to the coils on the Elect IGN. If I try real hard I can hear very very faint alt noise. So this worked for me. At 03:31 PM 3/26/04 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" > > >All true points. I was only suggesting the procurement of knowledge at this >point, not parts. Don't even know if I will have a problem at all. >Personally, I'll see how engine start (or at least the attempt) goes >tomorrow, and go from there. All systems are per Z-12 and I have had (knock >on wood) no problems what so ever thus far - all have been tested except >engine driven equipment. > >You bet I'll be gathering data...will report findings - actually hoping >there will be none to report. ;-) > >-James > >> >Can you point me to an existing circuit drawing with this "cap+diode" >> >configuration or would I just place a rated capacitor in parallel with >the >> >ignition power leads for a single ignition? >> > >> >I have a Plasma II+ with one mag (non-impulse), a PM starter and plan >engine >> >start this weekend. I would like to be prepared if I run into the same >> >issues. >> >> Before we rush out and buy parts to bolt to an airplane, >> it's useful to see if the idea is REALLY useful. The >> BEST place to start is to get the manufacturer to quantify >> the task. > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:30 PM PST US From: "Gerry Clabots" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Essential Bus Heat Sink --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gerry Clabots" I would like to know if mounting B&C Essential bus diode on the sub panel of my RV is enough of a heat sink to allow me a maximun of 10 amps load? If not how do I determine how large of a heat sink I should use? Gerry ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:52 PM PST US From: "Ross Mickey" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Essential Bus Heat Sink --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" Based on my recent conversations with Tim at B&C, the answer is...no one knows. Bob has been planning on doing some testing but I don't think he has gotten to it yet. I rigged my regulator up with an Intel CPU fan with heat sink. I haven't done any testing yet but it sure looks like it will help a lot. Ross Mickey N9PT > -----Original Message----- > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Essential Bus Heat Sink > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gerry Clabots" > > > I would like to know if mounting B&C Essential bus diode on > the sub panel of my RV is enough of a heat sink to allow me a > maximun of 10 amps load? > If not how do I determine how large of a heat sink I should use? > Gerry ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:20 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 01:43 PM 3/26/2004 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" > >I am not having a lot of luck solving the LSE noise issue. I get a >background tone is when the LSE is switched on, whether or not the engine is >running. > >At Klaus' request I moved the com antenna coax away from the LSE 12V power >leads. I shielded the 12V lead running from the battery to the CB. I then >bridged the shielding across the CB so it connects with the shield on the >12V input lead. >I still get the noise through my headset if the LSE is "ON", though it seems >to have diminished somewhat. > >I tried installing the Radio Shack noise filter. At my first run, the >capacitor blew up. The markings on the capacitor are not intuitive and I >apparently got the polarity wrong. Went to R.S. and bought a replacement >220 microfarad, this time I got a 35V version. > >I hooked it up again. At first there seemed to be no change. Then, after a >little fiddling, the tone seemed to fade in and out, as if someone was >slowly turning a volume control. Then, after that, I still got the tone >quite steady. > >The only thing I have not yet done is to run the LSE shielded ground (yes >shielded, it is not shown on the on-line versions, but on my wiring diagram >the wires coming from pins 15 & 8 on the input connector are shielded >http://www.lsecorp.com/Manuals/PIIPIIPInputDiagram.htm ) ground from the >control module, all the way to the battery. Right now the ground is plugged >into my firewall ground bus. > >Has anyone else had noise and radio problems with their LSE Plasma III? I >could use some experience here. First, rig a 12v battery from a pair of 6v lantern batteries and run your ignition system from this battery. See if the noise goes away. This will tell us if the noise is magnetically conducted, electrically conducted, or radiated. Shielding is almost never an issue with noises except when it has been improperly "grounded". Let's do the battery test first and see what happens. Oh, is this noise pretty loud compared to real signals? Had a builder spend a lot of time chasing a noise out of his audio that turned out to be so small that the only time he would hear it was sitting in the cockpit with the engine not running. While in flight and in comparison to normal communications signals, the noise was inaudible. Don't forget that the ears have tremendous dynamic range and just 'cause you can hear something when all else is quiet doesn't mean it's going to be objectionable during normal operations. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:58 PM PST US From: "Richard E. Tasker" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Essential Bus Heat Sink --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" I am not sure what you mean by your subpanel. If it is what I am thinking of and is relatively thick like mine (from Affordable Panel - 0.090") then that is plenty. Just to give a little extra safety factor you can use a dab of heat sink grease (Radio Shack Catalog #: 276-1372) between the diode block and the subpanel. Make sure the diode block is screwed securely and firmly to the subpanel. At ten amps you will be dissipating 6-8 watts which could probably be handled by the diode block by itself so attaching it to the subpanel with heat sink grease will allow it to run very cool. Dick Tasker Gerry Clabots wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gerry Clabots" > >I would like to know if mounting B&C Essential bus diode on the sub panel of my RV is enough of a heat sink to allow me a maximun of 10 amps load? >If not how do I determine how large of a heat sink I should use? >Gerry > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:38 PM PST US From: richard@riley.net Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ebay bargain --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net A while back I saw a strange little gauge on Ebay. It's a turn and slip indicator, but it's rectangular. 1" high by 2" wide. I got it for $12. It says it's a JET p/n 501-1186-01, and it's also marked as an ARU-54/A. I tried for a while to get a wiring diagram for it, but got nowhere. Finally I found that an ARU-54/A comes out of an AV8B Harrier. Since I work at Boeing, I started sending some emails, and finally found someone who told me that the generic part number from JET (now L3) is TSI-100A. So I did some more research, and finally got JET to send me a pin out. It's 24v DC, internally lit 5v DC. I also found a price list on line. The box that I bought (in working condition, BTW) for $12 has a list price of $24,425. Yes, it is going in my panel.