Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:24 AM - Apologies (Kingsley Hurst)
2. 05:59 AM - Re: Looking for an MS27467T9B35S connector (Paul Messinger)
3. 06:53 AM - Re: LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux (Kent Ashton)
4. 07:10 AM - Re: Apologies (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:42 AM - Re: Looking for an MS27467T9B35S connector (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:46 AM - Re: LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux (richard@riley.net)
7. 07:49 AM - A theoretical question (James Redmon)
8. 08:05 AM - Load Analysis - power usage project (Mickey Coggins)
9. 11:03 AM - Re: A theoretical question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 11:21 AM - Re: Field alternator circuit breaker (John Karnes)
11. 02:59 PM - Re: LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux (Eric Ruttan)
12. 03:14 PM - Re: Apologies (Kingsley Hurst)
13. 05:56 PM - Inrush Current Limiter ?and/or? Keep-Warm Circuit (Troy Scott)
14. 06:24 PM - Dukes boost pump question (Dan O'Brien)
15. 08:03 PM - fire detector (Troy Scott)
16. 08:09 PM - Re: Dukes boost pump question (Robert McCallum)
17. 08:47 PM - Fire Detector (Troy Scott)
18. 08:56 PM - Re: Fire Detector (Hal / Carol Kempthorne)
Message 1
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst@taroom.qld.gov.au>
Dear Bob,
Please accept my humble apologies for a mistake I made in my previous
posting a few hours ago.
In my stupor I made the revelation that in respect of Z-16, if the main
contactor failed, the alternator would go off line. How stupid?
My brain finally engaged before and I realised the error of my ways, the
OV relay will be held up by the alternator itself of course.
Yes it is quite true that one should keep ones mouth shut and let others
think one is a fool rather than to open it and prove so. Embarrassing
to say the least.
Best regards
Kingsley Hurst
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for an MS27467T9B35S connector |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
Try www.findchips.com. for stock etc.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: <richard@riley.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Looking for an MS27467T9B35S connector
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
>
> Anyone know where I can get one for less than it's weight in gold? The
> best I've found so far is a minimum 2 order at $75 each.
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kent Ashton <kjashton@vnet.net>
Sam,
I have a very quiet system until the radio breaks squelch, then I have a
medium level of ignition noise in the headset (two LSE Plasma I systems).
My com radio is connected to a gear leg antenna but I plan to move it to a
wingtip antenna soon. None of the ignition noise comes over the intercom.
This Spring, I'm going to try more shielding around the ignition wires
and plugs (Nippodenso plugs). I'm using RG-400 and I was very careful to
use shielded wires and ground all the shields per Klaus's plans. It's
tolerable for VFR flying but not good enough for IFR safety.
--Kent
> From: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@mchsi.com>
> Reply-To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:43:21 -0600
> To: "Aerolectric List" <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@mchsi.com>
>
> I am not having a lot of luck solving the LSE noise issue. I get a
> background tone is when the LSE is switched on, whether or not the engine is
> running.
>
> At Klaus' request I moved the com antenna coax away from the LSE 12V power
> leads. I shielded the 12V lead running from the battery to the CB. I then
> bridged the shielding across the CB so it connects with the shield on the
> 12V input lead.
> I still get the noise through my headset if the LSE is "ON", though it seems
> to have diminished somewhat.
>
> I tried installing the Radio Shack noise filter. At my first run, the
> capacitor blew up. The markings on the capacitor are not intuitive and I
> apparently got the polarity wrong. Went to R.S. and bought a replacement
> 220 microfarad, this time I got a 35V version.
>
> I hooked it up again. At first there seemed to be no change. Then, after a
> little fiddling, the tone seemed to fade in and out, as if someone was
> slowly turning a volume control. Then, after that, I still got the tone
> quite steady.
>
> The only thing I have not yet done is to run the LSE shielded ground (yes
> shielded, it is not shown on the on-line versions, but on my wiring diagram
> the wires coming from pins 15 & 8 on the input connector are shielded
> http://www.lsecorp.com/Manuals/PIIPIIPInputDiagram.htm ) ground from the
> control module, all the way to the battery. Right now the ground is plugged
> into my firewall ground bus.
>
> Has anyone else had noise and radio problems with their LSE Plasma III? I
> could use some experience here.
>
> Thanks
> Sam
> Q-200 ~ 1,350 hours
>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <bob.nuckolls@cox.net
> <mailto:bob.nuckolls@cox.net?subject=Re:%20LSE%20Plasma%20III%20electrical%2
> 0noise&replyto=200403240403.i2O435115236@matronics.com> >
>
> At 08:45 AM 3/23/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@mchsi.com
> <mailto:shoskins@mchsi.com?subject=Re:%20LSE%20Plasma%20III%20electrical%20n
> oise&replyto=200403240403.i2O435115236@matronics.com> >
>>
>> I thought I was finished with the installation of my LSE Plasma III into my
>> all composite Q-200. I am running the one mag/one electronic system. I
>> went out for the test flight, but the tower was unable to read me.
>> "Aircraft calling ground, unreadable".
>
> Have you listened to the output from your transmitter? You need
> to have someone else talk to you while you're on a hand held 100'
> or more away. What does the radio sound like? An "unreadable"
> report may have nothing to do with the ignition system. Does the
> tower say you're now quite clear with the ignition system off?
>
>> After I fiddled with the squelch, I found there was a mid-range tone, quite
>> loud, whenever I had the LSE switched ON. I shut down the engine and found
>> the same thing; the noise was just as bad. (I have a Wag-Aero ICS Plus
>> Nav/Com, about 12 years old).
>
> If you're hearing noise in your headphones, then this may not
> have anything to do with the radio. It might be an audio system
> problem.
>
>
>> I called Klaus and he said I was picking up inductive coupling from the
>> oscillator. I admit I had diverted from his instructions just a little
> bit.
>> For the 12V supply I ran an unshielded wire from the battery to a 5A
> breaker
>> in the panel. From there, his shielded wire runs to the LSE brain box.
> The
>> shielded ground wire runs from the brain box to the ground buss, which is
>> mounted about 18" aft of the firewall. His instructions say it should go
>> all the way to the battery.
>
> shielded ground wire?????
>
>
>> My com antenna lead is RG58 and it runs in intimate proximity with the
>> unshielded 12V supply line to the battery. The com antenna is in the
>> vertical stab, and the battery is in the baggage compartment, aft of the
>> passenger seat.
>
> If you are hearing power supply noise from the ignition system
> then it's 1000% better to filter it off at the source than
> to re-route wires in an attempt to "live with the noise".
>
>
>> Klaus suggested separating the com antenna leads from any power leads, and
>> run shielded wire, straight to the battery per plans, including the CB.
> That
>> is what I now intend to do.
>>
>>
>> Any more thoughts or suggestions?
>
> These are all shots in the dark. Have you read the chapter on
> noise? What experiments have you run to make sure we're talking
> about the right antagonist, the right victim and then isolate
> the propagation mode? If Klaus or anyone else has you changing
> configuration of your installation wiring in an attempt to mitigate
> a noise problem, then they're admitting that their product isn't
> really suited for installation in your airplane.
>
> Let's chop and hack on things because we've deduced the
> action to be a useful thing to try instead of trying lots
> of things because they "might" help.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:24 PM 3/31/2004 +1000, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst"
><khurst@taroom.qld.gov.au>
>
>Dear Bob,
>
>Please accept my humble apologies for a mistake I made in my previous
>posting a few hours ago.
>
>In my stupor I made the revelation that in respect of Z-16, if the main
>contactor failed, the alternator would go off line. How stupid?
>
>My brain finally engaged before and I realised the error of my ways, the
>OV relay will be held up by the alternator itself of course.
>
>Yes it is quite true that one should keep ones mouth shut and let others
>think one is a fool rather than to open it and prove so. Embarrassing
>to say the least.
Instead of "embarrassing" let us call it "educational". Every
week I participate in meetings where a LOT of ideas and hypotheses
are thrown out . . . many with great conviction and enthusiasm.
Like the human genome (5% "data" and 95% "chaos") it turns out
that the chaos is sort of the binder which contains data in various
orders (the difference between men and mice is more how their
data is arranged in the binder than in any major differences
of data).
The skills to strive for involve sifting apparent chaos
for data and fitting it together into solutions supported
by simple-ideas. If you allow this experience to be inhibiting
as a potential for embarrassment, then your ability to contribute
anything toward the solution is damaged. Please continue to
participate at what ever level you can in any investigation
of simple-ideas. Just change your focus to sifting for simple-ideas
and finding how they fit together into solutions. Yes, there
will be a lot of chaff but unless we do a good job of sifting
through ALL of it, important data may not be recovered.
The other side of the coin suggests that if the rest of us
are similarly focused there should be no behavior or reaction
from listeners that encourages embarrassment on the part of
speakers. We are all simultaneously teachers and students.
Nobody learns well in a hostile environment. Our public
schools are a living testament to that fact. Every night
before I go to bed, if I can reflect upon something
new I learned that day, it's a GOOD day. If, from time to
time, I can look back on an assemblage of simple-ideas that
solved a problem, it's a GREAT day.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for an MS27467T9B35S connector |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:51 AM 3/31/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
>
>Try www.findchips.com. for stock etc.
Call Grant Helmer at 316.788.0400 I forget the
name of his company right now but he is my #1 choice
source for small quantities of specialty connectors.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard@riley.net
>
>Sam,
> I have a very quiet system until the radio breaks squelch, then I have a
>medium level of ignition noise in the headset (two LSE Plasma I systems).
>My com radio is connected to a gear leg antenna but I plan to move it to a
>wingtip antenna soon. None of the ignition noise comes over the intercom.
I had a lot of noise with a Klaus system until (at his suggestion) I
installed automotive resistance wires. Silence after that.
Message 7
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| Subject: | A theoretical question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" <james@berkut13.com>
I was modeling something in my mind and had a question:
If you took a Z-12 wired aircraft, master on, both 60 and 20amp alternators
turned on, engine running at speed, and all systems nominal - then
disconnected the battery leads. Would the alternators (and systems) stay
alive via the power the alternator(s) produce, or is the battery required to
keep the field power to the regulators/alts?
Just curious....
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
Message 8
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| Subject: | Load Analysis - power usage project |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi,
What happened to the project of gathering up all the
information about the power used by various instruments
and devices? Sorry if I missed a posting on it. I'm
currently trying to get my Load Analysis finished,
and I miss a few things. I'm using Bob's form:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/LoadAnalysis.pdf
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: A theoretical question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:33 AM 3/31/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" <james@berkut13.com>
>
>I was modeling something in my mind and had a question:
>
>If you took a Z-12 wired aircraft, master on, both 60 and 20amp alternators
>turned on, engine running at speed, and all systems nominal - then
>disconnected the battery leads. Would the alternators (and systems) stay
>alive via the power the alternator(s) produce, or is the battery required to
>keep the field power to the regulators/alts?
>
>Just curious....
They may . . . and may not. Most likely they'll stay on line
and run self excited but without the filtering benefits of
the battery. One MIGHT consider adding one of those super
capacitors popular with the 4-wheeled hearing-killers.
theres's good reason to suggest that alternator only
operations will be MUCH enhanced by the presence of such
a device in the system. You can find these things all over
the 'net. Ebay has a wad of them offered at any given time.
Once the ripple-filtering issues are addressed by adding
the capacitor, the only variable is strength and duration
of any inrush currents. For example, a hydraulic pump motor
might draw so much startup current that an barefoot alternator
is deprived of field excitation whereupon it "stalls" and
the whole system goes down.
To my present level of knowledge, no certified aircraft
carries this feature (although we considered it on S.E.
Cessnas about 30 years ago . . . don't recall now the
reason for not bringing it into production).
The short answer to your question is: if you're interested
alternator only operation, then give it a try. I'd leave
potentially sensitive devices (stuff with transistor in
them) off line. See if you can open the battery contactor
after the alternator is on line and observe how well the
system behaves. Try turning things on/off. Watch voltage
stability. If things look pretty good, bring a comm radio
up and see how well you hear and how people hear you.
The rational for the split rocker with interlocked battery
and alternator switches was to eliminate the need and/or
opportunity for purposeful operation in this mode. It's
depended upon the behavior of individual models of alternators
and the regulators they are paired with. Cessna/Piper/Beech
et. als. didn't see value in pursuing alternator only ops
as a good marketing ploy or safety enhancement. That doesn't
mean you can't pursue it.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@earthlink.net>
> 13.5 volts is a tad low. What kind of voltage regulator are you
> using?
In retrospect, actual voltage is about 3.8 with the internal regulator.
Were you switching any other accessory(ies) when the trip
> occurred?
Nope.
> What has your voltage been running in recent flights before the
> trip?
Voltage has not been a problem. The connection to the alternator was
loose, so I was losing voltage. Tightened the v-belt and the cable and
voltage has been about 3.8 to 4.0.
Thanks, Bob!
John Karnes
601 HDS
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Ruttan" <ericruttan@chartermi.net>
Might suggest http://magnecor.com/ for some great information about ignition
wires. Covers aviation and automotive.
Specifically http://magnecor.com/magnecor1/frequent.htm
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LSE Plasma III noise, Part Deux
> >Sam,
> > I have a very quiet system until the radio breaks squelch, then I
have a
> >medium level of ignition noise in the headset (two LSE Plasma I systems).
> >My com radio is connected to a gear leg antenna but I plan to move it to
a
> >wingtip antenna soon. None of the ignition noise comes over the
intercom.
>
> I had a lot of noise with a Klaus system until (at his suggestion) I
> installed automotive resistance wires. Silence after that.
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <khurst@taroom.qld.gov.au>
You wrote: Instead of "embarrassing" let us call it
"educational"....................
Bob,
Thank you for being your normal understanding self. The admiration you
command from those on the list and I imagine elsewhere too is well
deserved.
Kingsley
Message 13
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| Subject: | Inrush Current Limiter ?and/or? Keep-Warm Circuit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" <tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
Bob and all,
WRT landing, taxi and position lights: Are the filament keep-warn circuit
and the inrush current limiters compatible? Or are they mutually exclusive?
Will the fact that the filament is already warm adversely affect the ability
of the thermistor to protect the bulb? Or am I misunderstanding the
application completely....? Is the function of the inrush current limiter
just to protect the switch contacts? Or do they also protect (extend the
life of) the bulb(s)?
Regards,
Troy Scott
tscott1217@bellsouth.net
Message 14
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| Subject: | Dukes boost pump question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien@cox.net>
I'm wiring a Duke's electric boost pump for my Lancair using two switches,
one for high boost and one for low boost. It occurred to me that
inadvertently turning on both could be something that the pump doesn't
like, depending on how it's wired internally. Does anyone know what
happens when both wires (high and low boost) are hot? I can ask Dukes, but
thought I'd try the list first. If for some reason this is a no no, is
there a simple way to wire things so that both can't be hot at once?
Thanks!
Dan O'Brien
Lancair Super ES
Message 15
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" <tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
Gentlemen,
I would like to have in my annunciator group "FIRE" or "HOT" to indicate
that the cowling exit air is hot enough to be concerned about. I know this
has been done on homebuilts in the past by using an automotive radiator
temperature sensor. I think we should be able to do better than that now.
I've seen in Digikey some thermistors that look like they might do the job.
However, there is a bewildering array of sensors. If any of you have
successfully done this, I'd like to know how you did it, what parts you
used, etc.. Simple and reliable is more important than exact temperature.
I just want an LED to light up if things get too hot under the cowl.
Thoughts?
Regards,
Troy Scott
tscott1217@bellsouth.net
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Dukes boost pump question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Dan
The simplest would be with a single switch which has three positions.
Off, low boost, high boost. Why two separate switches ? This would seem
to be perhaps unduly complicated with the potential to create the
problem you mention. (if it is in fact a problem) If you insist on two
switches for some reason then they could each be wired through a
normally closed contact on the other so that turning on one would deny
the other power. This of course could create a condition of both on
equals power to the pump from neither. Or, use this feature for only one
so that both on equates to low boost. (or high depending on which you
wish to give precedence.)
Bob McC
Dan O'Brien wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan O'Brien" <danobrien@cox.net>
>
>I'm wiring a Duke's electric boost pump for my Lancair using two switches,
>one for high boost and one for low boost. It occurred to me that
>inadvertently turning on both could be something that the pump doesn't
>like, depending on how it's wired internally. Does anyone know what
>happens when both wires (high and low boost) are hot? I can ask Dukes, but
>thought I'd try the list first. If for some reason this is a no no, is
>there a simple way to wire things so that both can't be hot at once?
>
>Thanks!
>Dan O'Brien
>Lancair Super ES
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" <tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
Gentlemen,
Since I posted the original message, I found these Cantherm Encapsulated
Thermostats for Electronics, (F11-E06). One example is Digikey part #
317-1023-ND. It closes at 90 degrees Celsius. Other part numbers represent
similar devices with different temperature ranges. This device looks to me
like it would operate my LED annunciator directly and survive life under the
cowling. Problem is: I really don't know what the maximum acceptable
cowling exit air temperature should be for my Glasair Super II with a 180HP
Lycoming. I seek enlightenment.
Regards,
Troy Scott
tscott1217@bellsouth.net
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Fire Detector |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 08:46 PM 3/31/2004, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott"
><tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
> Problem is: I really don't know what the maximum acceptable
>cowling exit air temperature should be for my Glasair Super II with a 180HP
>Lycoming. I seek enlightenment.
They make thermometers with remote probes. Experiment. Probably it is
between 70F and 500F - Oven temps?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
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