Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:11 AM - Re: Field alternator circuit breaker (John Karnes)
2. 05:20 AM - Annunciator Light Bulb (Jack Lockamy)
3. 05:57 AM - Re: Annunciator Light Bulb (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:12 AM - Re: Field alternator circuit breaker (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 06:14 AM - Re: Annunciator Light Bulb (John Schroeder)
6. 06:20 AM - Re: Fire Detector (Harold Kovac)
7. 06:26 AM - Re: How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 Booster (Jeffrey W. Skiba)
8. 06:57 AM - Re: Fuse block mounting photos was Bussmann (Charlie Kuss)
9. 07:47 AM - Re: How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 (Chad Robinson)
10. 07:47 AM - Fw: Re: Fuse block mounting photos was (Charlie Kuss)
11. 08:19 AM - Re: Field alternator circuit breaker (John Karnes)
12. 08:29 AM - Re: Dukes boost pump question -- Duke's response. ()
13. 08:53 AM - Re: Field alternator circuit breaker (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 08:57 AM - Re: Re: Dukes boost pump question -- Duke's (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 08:57 AM - Re: Fire Detector (Dave Morris)
16. 08:58 AM - What happened to Gretz Aero ? (GT)
17. 09:03 AM - Re: How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 (Richard Tasker)
18. 09:25 AM - Re: How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 (Richard Tasker)
19. 09:44 AM - Re: Fire Detector (Gerry Holland)
20. 09:46 AM - Re: Annunciator Light Bulb (Scott Bilinski)
21. 10:13 AM - Re: Annunciator Light Bulb (Scott Bilinski)
22. 10:29 AM - Re: Fuse block mounting photos was Bussmann fuse block survey question (John Schroeder)
23. 10:35 AM - Re: How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 (Chad Robinson)
24. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: Fuse block mounting photos was Bussmann fuse block survey question ()
25. 12:44 PM - Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 08:57 PM - Party Time at Slobovia Outernational Airport!! (Charlie & Tupper England)
27. 10:16 PM - Fire Detector (Troy Scott)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@earthlink.net>
> I'll assume 13.8 to 14.0 . . . that's a useful operating range.
> Have you had any nuisance trips of the ov protection system in the
past?
>
> Bob . . .
Yes, but not since I changed to the newer OV module and replaced my
alternator. I think I have a bare wire somewhere that is grounded out. In
finding this culprit, may I assume:
1) that the wire is "downstream" past a fuse greater than 5A?
or
2) that the wire is providing power on a circuit without a fuse? (I have
to figure out what that might be)
If there is indeed a grounded wire, do you recommend a particular "search
and destroy" tactic to find the culprit in the least amount of time?
Thanks, Bob
John Karnes
Port Orchard, WA
Message 2
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"RV List" <rv-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Annunciator Light Bulb |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy@att.net>
Anyone have a source for a CM388 light bulb? These are the 12v, really small light
bulbs for my annunciator panel buttons. A Google search only showed one
hit.... but they wanted $9 for each bulb and you had to buy 4 of em!!!
Any leads to another source would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Annunciator Light Bulb |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:19 AM 4/2/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy@att.net>
>
>Anyone have a source for a CM388 light bulb? These are the 12v, really
>small light bulbs for my annunciator panel buttons. A Google search only
>showed one hit.... but they wanted $9 for each bulb and you had to buy 4
>of em!!!
>
>Any leads to another source would be appreciated.
The "CM" part of the number is Chicago Minature's prefix for
an industry standard #388 lamp. If we're talking about the same
lamp, you'll find it illustrated in Figure 11 of
http://www.alliedelec.com/catalog/pf.asp?FN=962.pdf
This catalog page also says the 388 is a 28v lamp. Are
you sure that you're not looking for a #386 which is
the grooved base rather than flanged (makes it useful
in front-remove-replace fixtures) and also 14v rated.
This would be figure 12 on the same catalog page.
These would also cost you $9.00 . . . for a box
of 10 lamps.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 12:10 AM 4/2/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Karnes"
><jpkarnes@earthlink.net>
>
> > I'll assume 13.8 to 14.0 . . . that's a useful operating range.
> > Have you had any nuisance trips of the ov protection system in the
>past?
> >
> > Bob . . .
>
>Yes, but not since I changed to the newer OV module and replaced my
>alternator. I think I have a bare wire somewhere that is grounded out. In
>finding this culprit, may I assume:
>1) that the wire is "downstream" past a fuse greater than 5A?
Not sure where this came from . . . if the alternator field
breaker is popping, then any intermittent fault that triggers
this event would be in the alternator field circuit downstream
of THE tripping breaker. This probably isn't some nefarious gremlin
doing it's dirty work in some unrelated portion of the ship's
systems.
When you say "newer" ov module, is this module one that
replaced an older one or did you send your old one back
for modification? What was happening that prompted you to
send it back and/or replace it?
>or
>
>2) that the wire is providing power on a circuit without a fuse? (I have
>to figure out what that might be)
>
>If there is indeed a grounded wire, do you recommend a particular "search
>and destroy" tactic to find the culprit in the least amount of time?
No. Does the tripping event happen consistently? I.e. can you expect
it to happen one or more times every flight? If so, disconnect the
ov module and see if the problem persists. If the problem goes away,
then some event in the airplane is triggering the ov module.
This MIGHT be the result of some event in an un-related
system (we were originally made aware of the problem on
Bonanzas when switching on landing and taxi lights together
would trip the ov system). If this kind of stimulus is in
operation, then the tripping result is tied to some other
action in the airplane. You've said that it happens without
a noticeable triggering event so we're looking for some
kind of malfunction. Unless you're amble to monitor and
plot bus voltage, we cannot rule out transient instability
of the voltage regulator wherein the ov module is doing
exactly what it's designed to do.
What kind of voltage regulator do you have in the airplane?
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Annunciator Light Bulb |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Jack -
Which annunciator panel buttons are you using? We are looking at some
solutions. One is a light from GC Waldom that has a small bulb in it
(.08 amps). They sell for about $6 per assembly/light from a distributor.
It might be cheaper to change to another assembly. Check:
http://www.gcwaldom.com/catalog.html
Click on Panel Lamps/..., then click down a few pages to get to the
rectangular panel snap in lamps (38-1022-12 is the red one).
Hope this helps,
John
> Anyone have a source for a CM388 light bulb? These are the 12v, really
> small light bulbs for my annunciator panel buttons.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fire Detector |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Harold Kovac" <kayce@sysmatrix.net>
Hi,
Great idea, Corvair used the same system, probably get them for next to
nothing in a recyling yard.
kaycee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerry Holland" <gnholland@onetel.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fire Detector
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland
<gnholland@onetel.com>
>
> Dave Hi!
> >
> > There's always the low-tech method using a VW Beetle thermostat bellows
to
> > open a cowl flap when the temp reaches a certain level. I just bought 2
of
> > the new-fangled versions of them and used a heat gun to see how it
> > works. When it heats up, a little rod pushes out about an inch, which
can
> > be used (via a lever) to open a cowl flap.
>
> Any Part No. or photo anywhere?
>
> > Not my usual microprocessor-controlled GPS-based high-tech, but cheap
and
> > effective.
>
> All the better!!! Especially seeing how electrons are affecting Eric
> Jones..... Poor guy. Of course too many LED's can seriously damage your
> health too..... That's mental health. Keep taking the medicine Eric!!!
> Very funny though.
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Gerry
>
> Europa 384 G-FIZY
> Trigear with Rotax 912 and Arplast CS Prop.
> Fuselage being Painted, Wings ready to paint, Flying surfaces painted
> Airframe Wiring complete, Full Size Panel 60% done .
> Includes Dynon EFIS, KMD 150, Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder. AoA Fitted.
> Activity on Panel, Designing Heater Unit, Shoulder Width Mod.
>
> http://www.g-fizy.com
> +44 7808 402404
> gnholland@onetel.com
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 Booster |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba@icosa.net>
First thanks for the initial answer, I thought the numbers were goofy
myself, but I did type them correctly, take a look at
http://www.n973a.net/AK-550-12.pdf
I put a quick scan of the page I typed in... It does state that the 6 draws
less at a low voltage HOW CAN THIS BE ???
Do the numbers calculated still make sense?? Or anybody have another answer
??
THANKS in advance
Jeff.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker"
--> <retasker@optonline.net>
Well, you have typed some of the numbers wrong, but if we take the 12A
output data we get an efficiency of approximately 80% for the supply.
We will ignore the 6A data since it cannot be correct (it draws less
current at a lower input voltage - impossible!) Using the 12 A data we
get 336 W out (12A x 28V) with 420 W in (30A x 14V). Divide the output
power by the input power and you get 0.8 - an efficiency of 80%.
Therefore, for a 5A output @ 28V (140W) you would need to supply 12.5A @
14V (175W) or 14A @ 12.5V. Or to answer your question of how many amps
in per amp out, 2.5A @14V input or 2.8A @12.5V for each amp out @28V.
Of course, the efficiency of the supply probably varies with the actual
load, but since there is only one valid output current data point we
cannot estimate that. However, this should be close enough to start.
Dick Tasker
Jeffrey W. Skiba wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeffrey W. Skiba"
>--> <jskiba@icosa.net>
>
>Okay I was kind of hoping the manual for the AK-550-12 voltage booster
>would give me a better answer but no such luck.
>
>I am trying to calculate the current required for an Ameri-king
>AK-550-12 14volt to 28 volt booster.
>
>Aka if the booster is supplying a device running at 28 volts and
>drawing 5amps how much current will the booster require or draw ??
>
>The manual states the following
>
>INPUT
>
>Voltage rated: 13.8vdc
>
>
>Current:
>@6 amps full load output 23.3 amps typical / 9 vdc input (for AK-550-6)
>
>@6 amps full load output 30.0 amps typical / 14 vdc input for AK-550-6)
>
>@12 amps full load output 46.6 amps typical / 9 vdc input for
>AK-550-12)
>
>@12 amps full load output 30.0 amps typical / 14 vdc input for
>AK-550-12)
>
>
>.11a typ. @ no load for -6
>
>322a typ. @ no load for -12
>
>
>Now How would one find out what the required input current is for each
>amp pulled from the booster???
>
>Aka
>
>Supply booster with 14 volts booster is supplying a device running at
>28vdc and draws 5 amps HOW many amps does the booster NEED???
>
>I must be missing something right in front of my nose...
>
>It's late maybe I need sleep
>Thanks
>Jeff.
>
>
Message 8
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fuse block survey question
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Dave,
I've been puzzling over Eric Jones' existential crisis questions all day! :-)
I recently mounted my fuse blocks. I'm sure someone will soon ask you how to use
these blocks when you need to surface mount them. I made 4 2" long, pillar
type spacers out of Bakelite for one of my fuse blocks. This allows enough room
behind it for the wire loom to exit nicely. See attached photos. This is mounted
on the rear side of my forward baggage compartment bulkhead (F-866A) I'm
using #8 flat head screws which enter from the rear (aka back) of the fuse block.
The pillars have been countersunk to nest into the dimples in the F-866A.
Charlie Kuss
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
(by way of Matt Dralle <nospam@matronics.com>)
>
> I tried sending out this survey question last night, but it doesn't seem
> to have come through so I'll try it again. As John mentions below in
> his message, he would like to use the new 15710 series fuseblock. The
> size he is interested in is a 24 position dual bus split 20/4. However,
> I have to order a minimum of 24 pieces to get this new size that I don't
> currently stock. John says he could also use a 28 position split 20/8
> if that size would be useful to more people and increase my chances of
> selling all 24 pieces.
>
> So here's the survey question. Would you be more likely to use a 24
> position dual bus fuseblock split 20/4 or a 28 position split 20/8?
> Your answer is not a commitment to buy anything. If you want your
> answer to count, please reply prompty as John needs me to get these on
> order without much delay. Thanks for your help.
>
> Dave Swartzendruber
> P.S. see www.mihdirect.biz for more info on the 15710 series fuseblock.
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder
> > <jschroeder@perigee.net>
> >
> > Gary -
> >
> > We are in the same boat re: our ES. Here are some of the ideas gleaned
> > from various lists:
> >
> >
> > We are going to use the new Bussmann fuse blocks (Series 15710) that
>Dave
> > Swartzendruber has on his web site. Check out his site and download the
> > spec sheet: http://www.mihdirect.biz/
> >
> > We mount two, side-by-side, on the lower right edge of the right panel.
>I
> > have a preliminary plot on our panel in AutoCAD. They have covers, so
>they
> > will come thru the panel and be accessible from the front. We are not
>sure
> > about how to fasten them to the panel, but could use 4 countersunk
>screws
> > per block and probably nuts on the back. Dave sells a complete kit with
> > connectors and a removal tool. We are looking to get either two 20/4's
>or
> > 20/8's. These incorporate separate feeds to each section. Thus, one
>could
> > use the smaller section for an avionics buss if they really feel they
>need
> > one. We will use 4 of the slots of the smaller bussess for FADEC power
> > control.
> >
> > If you think this approach could work for you, let Dave ( "David
> > Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net> )know because he has to
> > order 24 of the blocks to get us our two or three. We prefer the 20/4,
> > but there is room for the 20/8's.
> >
> > Hope this helps
> >
> > John Schroeder
> > Lancair ES
> >
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 |
Booster
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chad Robinson <crobinson@rfgonline.com>
Jeffrey W. Skiba wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeffrey W. Skiba" <jskiba@icosa.net>
>
> First thanks for the initial answer, I thought the numbers were goofy
> myself, but I did type them correctly, take a look at
> http://www.n973a.net/AK-550-12.pdf
> I put a quick scan of the page I typed in... It does state that the 6 draws
> less at a low voltage HOW CAN THIS BE ???
>
> Do the numbers calculated still make sense?? Or anybody have another answer
> ??
>
> THANKS in advance
> Jeff.
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker"
> --> <retasker@optonline.net>
>
> Well, you have typed some of the numbers wrong, but if we take the 12A
> output data we get an efficiency of approximately 80% for the supply.
> We will ignore the 6A data since it cannot be correct (it draws less
> current at a lower input voltage - impossible!) Using the 12 A data we
> get 336 W out (12A x 28V) with 420 W in (30A x 14V). Divide the output
> power by the input power and you get 0.8 - an efficiency of 80%.
I'm confused. Ohm's law says E = I * R. If R is constant, and E drops, so must
I. So if you lower the voltage, less current should pass. Why is this
impossible? That's exactly what a rheostat lamp dimmer does - it drops some of
the input voltage to lower the effective wattage of the bulb.
Am I missing something?
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: use block mounting photos was AeroElectric-List: |
Bussmann fuse block survey question
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
Listers,
My apologies. The post below was meant to be sent to Dave off list. My bad! :-(
do not archieve
Charlie Kuss
>Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 09:51:58 -0500
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
>Subject: Re: Fuse block mounting photos was AeroElectric-List: Bussmann
> fuse block survey question
>Sender: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>Reply-To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
>
>Dave,
> I've been puzzling over Eric Jones' existential crisis questions all day! :-)
>I recently mounted my fuse blocks. I'm sure someone will soon ask you how to use
these blocks when you need to surface mount them. I made 4 2" long, pillar
type spacers out of Bakelite for one of my fuse blocks. This allows enough room
behind it for the wire loom to exit nicely. See attached photos. This is mounted
on the rear side of my forward baggage compartment bulkhead (F-866A) I'm
using #8 flat head screws which enter from the rear (aka back) of the fuse block.
The pillars have been countersunk to nest into the dimples in the F-866A.
>Charlie Kuss
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net>
(by way of Matt Dralle <nospam@matronics.com>)
>>
>> I tried sending out this survey question last night, but it doesn't seem
>> to have come through so I'll try it again. As John mentions below in
>> his message, he would like to use the new 15710 series fuseblock. The
>> size he is interested in is a 24 position dual bus split 20/4. However,
>> I have to order a minimum of 24 pieces to get this new size that I don't
>> currently stock. John says he could also use a 28 position split 20/8
>> if that size would be useful to more people and increase my chances of
>> selling all 24 pieces.
>>
>> So here's the survey question. Would you be more likely to use a 24
>> position dual bus fuseblock split 20/4 or a 28 position split 20/8?
>> Your answer is not a commitment to buy anything. If you want your
>> answer to count, please reply prompty as John needs me to get these on
>> order without much delay. Thanks for your help.
>>
>> Dave Swartzendruber
>> P.S. see www.mihdirect.biz for more info on the 15710 series fuseblock.
>>
>>
>> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder
>> > <jschroeder@perigee.net>
>> >
>> > Gary -
>> >
>> > We are in the same boat re: our ES. Here are some of the ideas gleaned
>> > from various lists:
>> >
>> >
>> > We are going to use the new Bussmann fuse blocks (Series 15710) that
>>Dave
>> > Swartzendruber has on his web site. Check out his site and download the
>> > spec sheet: http://www.mihdirect.biz/
>> >
>> > We mount two, side-by-side, on the lower right edge of the right panel.
>>I
>> > have a preliminary plot on our panel in AutoCAD. They have covers, so
>>they
>> > will come thru the panel and be accessible from the front. We are not
>>sure
>> > about how to fasten them to the panel, but could use 4 countersunk
>>screws
>> > per block and probably nuts on the back. Dave sells a complete kit with
>> > connectors and a removal tool. We are looking to get either two 20/4's
>>or
>> > 20/8's. These incorporate separate feeds to each section. Thus, one
>>could
>> > use the smaller section for an avionics buss if they really feel they
>>need
>> > one. We will use 4 of the slots of the smaller bussess for FADEC power
>> > control.
>> >
>> > If you think this approach could work for you, let Dave ( "David
>> > Swartzendruber" <dswartzendruber@earthlink.net> )know because he has to
>> > order 24 of the blocks to get us our two or three. We prefer the 20/4,
>> > but there is room for the 20/8's.
>> >
>> > Hope this helps
>> >
>> > John Schroeder
>> > Lancair ES
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@earthlink.net>
> When you say "newer" ov module, is this module one that
> replaced an older one or did you send your old one back
> for modification? What was happening that prompted you to
> send it back and/or replace it?
During a "catastrophic" overheating of my engine two summers ago, the
breaker tripped. I sent the OV module back to you for updating because of
some nuisance trips with the older version. Never got it back. Ordered a
replacement from B & C with the newer components.
> No. Does the tripping event happen consistently? I.e. can you expect
> it to happen one or more times every flight? If so, disconnect the
> ov module and see if the problem persists. If the problem goes away,
> then some event in the airplane is triggering the ov module.
The tripping event occurs seconds after starting the engine. Push the
breaker in and the voltmeter shows about 14 volts and the breaker trips
again...
>
> This MIGHT be the result of some event in an un-related
> system (we were originally made aware of the problem on
> Bonanzas when switching on landing and taxi lights together
> would trip the ov system). If this kind of stimulus is in
> operation, then the tripping result is tied to some other
> action in the airplane. You've said that it happens without
> a noticeable triggering event so we're looking for some
> kind of malfunction. Unless you're amble to monitor and
> plot bus voltage, we cannot rule out transient instability
> of the voltage regulator wherein the ov module is doing
> exactly what it's designed to do.
>
> What kind of voltage regulator do you have in the airplane?
The voltage regulator is internal with the Beck-Arnley rebuilt alternator.
The alternator is for an '88 Justy. It has a Mitsubishi symbol on it. I
took it to the auto parts place and had it checked out. Checked out fine...
Thanks, Bob
John Karnes
Port Orchard, WA
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Dukes boost pump question -- Duke's response. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <danobrien@cox.net>
>>>Does anyone know what happens when both wires
>>>(high and low boost) are hot?
>>I too was curious about what would happen should this
>>occur.
>The motor runs in the fast mode.
Spoke with a Dukes tech about having both wires hot at once. He said they hadn't
tested the unit that way and so he recommended against it. He said he thought
the unit would run in the fast mode but that it would draw more current than
it's designed to draw (...something about two separate motors). It would get
hotter than designed as well.
I have no way of evaluating this, but I'm back to wanting to wire it so that only
one switch can be hot. Bob, if, hypothetically, you were constrained to use
two switches, how would you wire it?
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:18 AM 4/2/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Karnes"
><jpkarnes@earthlink.net>
>
> > When you say "newer" ov module, is this module one that
> > replaced an older one or did you send your old one back
> > for modification? What was happening that prompted you to
> > send it back and/or replace it?
>
>During a "catastrophic" overheating of my engine two summers ago, the
>breaker tripped. I sent the OV module back to you for updating because of
>some nuisance trips with the older version. Never got it back. Ordered a
>replacement from B & C with the newer components.
>
> > No. Does the tripping event happen consistently? I.e. can you expect
> > it to happen one or more times every flight? If so, disconnect the
> > ov module and see if the problem persists. If the problem goes away,
> > then some event in the airplane is triggering the ov module.
>
>The tripping event occurs seconds after starting the engine. Push the
>breaker in and the voltmeter shows about 14 volts and the breaker trips
>again...
> >
> > This MIGHT be the result of some event in an un-related
> > system (we were originally made aware of the problem on
> > Bonanzas when switching on landing and taxi lights together
> > would trip the ov system). If this kind of stimulus is in
> > operation, then the tripping result is tied to some other
> > action in the airplane. You've said that it happens without
> > a noticeable triggering event so we're looking for some
> > kind of malfunction. Unless you're amble to monitor and
> > plot bus voltage, we cannot rule out transient instability
> > of the voltage regulator wherein the ov module is doing
> > exactly what it's designed to do.
> >
> > What kind of voltage regulator do you have in the airplane?
>
>The voltage regulator is internal with the Beck-Arnley rebuilt alternator.
>The alternator is for an '88 Justy. It has a Mitsubishi symbol on it. I
>took it to the auto parts place and had it checked out. Checked out fine...
Okay, it's almost a sure bet that unhooking the ov module will
stop the tripping but it's worth a confirmation.
The next question to scope out is what's agitating the
ov module? I presume the system ran well on the new module
until recently . . . have you made any changes to the system . . .
installed any new equipment?
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Dukes boost pump question -- Duke's |
response.
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:29 AM 4/2/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <danobrien@cox.net>
>
> >>>Does anyone know what happens when both wires
> >>>(high and low boost) are hot?
>
> >>I too was curious about what would happen should this
> >>occur.
>
> >The motor runs in the fast mode.
>
>Spoke with a Dukes tech about having both wires hot at once. He said they
>hadn't tested the unit that way and so he recommended against it. He said
>he thought the unit would run in the fast mode but that it would draw more
>current than it's designed to draw (...something about two separate
>motors). It would get hotter than designed as well.
>
>I have no way of evaluating this, but I'm back to wanting to wire it so
>that only one switch can be hot. Bob, if, hypothetically, you were
>constrained to use two switches, how would you wire it?
Wire with single pole, double throw switches. Wire the high speed
through the OFF position of the low speed switch. That way, you can't
get high speed operation until the low speed switch is OFF thus
preventing the dual-power feed situation we've hypothesized.
I believe the pump is a series-wound motor with extra field
windings for slow speed operation. Connection both speed control
wires together simply shorts out the low speed field wires and
forces the motor into the high speed mode. It doesn't surprise
me but it is disappointing that the Dukes guy doesn't understand
his product any better than that. It's still more disappointing
to find this a common condition throughout general aviation.
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Fire Detector |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris <dave@davemorris.com>
Here's the old style bellows type thermostat:
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-021-119-159-A&Click=18774
Here's the new style thermostat:
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-040-198-119-KIT&Click=18774
Dave Morris
At 08:46 AM 4/2/2004 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
>
>Dave Hi!
> >
> > There's always the low-tech method using a VW Beetle thermostat bellows to
> > open a cowl flap when the temp reaches a certain level. I just bought 2 of
> > the new-fangled versions of them and used a heat gun to see how it
> > works. When it heats up, a little rod pushes out about an inch, which can
> > be used (via a lever) to open a cowl flap.
>
>Any Part No. or photo anywhere?
>
> > Not my usual microprocessor-controlled GPS-based high-tech, but cheap and
> > effective.
>
>All the better!!! Especially seeing how electrons are affecting Eric
>Jones..... Poor guy. Of course too many LED's can seriously damage your
>health too..... That's mental health. Keep taking the medicine Eric!!!
>Very funny though.
>
>Many Thanks
>
>Gerry
>
>Europa 384 G-FIZY
>Trigear with Rotax 912 and Arplast CS Prop.
>Fuselage being Painted, Wings ready to paint, Flying surfaces painted
>Airframe Wiring complete, Full Size Panel 60% done .
>Includes Dynon EFIS, KMD 150, Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder. AoA Fitted.
>Activity on Panel, Designing Heater Unit, Shoulder Width Mod.
>
>http://www.g-fizy.com
>+44 7808 402404
>gnholland@onetel.com
>
>
>Do not archive
>
>
Dave Morris
Message 16
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| Subject: | What happened to Gretz Aero ? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "GT" <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
Hi Bob and all,
Some time ago, after asking on the 'List I found a nice little black round
GPS antenna on Gretz Aero's website.
Warren Gretz kindly answered my questions, and I was just about to place an
order.
But to my surprise it appears they don't carry GPS antennas any longer, and
I got no reply to my e-mail.
Anyone know what's going on ?
Thanks,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 |
Booster
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
Sorry to disagree, but you did type the numbers in the wrong places -
must have been the late hour!
If you look again at the data sheet you will see that the specs for the
6A units are:
6A out for 15A @ 14V in
6A out for 23.3A @ 9V in
And the 12A units:
12A out for 30A @ 14V in
12A out for 46.6A @ 9V in
However, these data are for two different supplies. Nonetheless, the
original calculations are correct for the 12A supply and if you do the
same calculations for the 6A supply, the efficiency also calculates to
80% efficiency, so the original comments are still valid.
If you need 5A continuous, I might go with the 12A version (depending on
cost). If your typical requirement is lower and only 5A on transmit,
then I would go for the 6A supply (since it will probably be cheaper and
certainly has enough capacity for your application).
Dick Tasker
Jeffrey W. Skiba wrote:
>First thanks for the initial answer, I thought the numbers were goofy
>myself, but I did type them correctly, take a look at
>http://www.n973a.net/AK-550-12.pdf
> I put a quick scan of the page I typed in... It does state that the 6 draws
>less at a low voltage HOW CAN THIS BE ???
>
>Do the numbers calculated still make sense?? Or anybody have another answer
>??
>
>THANKS in advance
>Jeff.
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker"
>--> <retasker@optonline.net>
>
>Well, you have typed some of the numbers wrong, but if we take the 12A
>output data we get an efficiency of approximately 80% for the supply.
>We will ignore the 6A data since it cannot be correct (it draws less
>current at a lower input voltage - impossible!) Using the 12 A data we
>get 336 W out (12A x 28V) with 420 W in (30A x 14V). Divide the output
>power by the input power and you get 0.8 - an efficiency of 80%.
>
>Therefore, for a 5A output @ 28V (140W) you would need to supply 12.5A @
>14V (175W) or 14A @ 12.5V. Or to answer your question of how many amps
>in per amp out, 2.5A @14V input or 2.8A @12.5V for each amp out @28V.
>
>Of course, the efficiency of the supply probably varies with the actual
>load, but since there is only one valid output current data point we
>cannot estimate that. However, this should be close enough to start.
>
>Dick Tasker
>
>Jeffrey W. Skiba wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeffrey W. Skiba"
>>--> <jskiba@icosa.net>
>>
>>Okay I was kind of hoping the manual for the AK-550-12 voltage booster
>>would give me a better answer but no such luck.
>>
>>I am trying to calculate the current required for an Ameri-king
>>AK-550-12 14volt to 28 volt booster.
>>
>>Aka if the booster is supplying a device running at 28 volts and
>>drawing 5amps how much current will the booster require or draw ??
>>
>>The manual states the following
>>
>>INPUT
>>
>>Voltage rated: 13.8vdc
>>
>>
>>Current:
>>@6 amps full load output 23.3 amps typical / 9 vdc input (for AK-550-6)
>>
>>@6 amps full load output 30.0 amps typical / 14 vdc input for AK-550-6)
>>
>>@12 amps full load output 46.6 amps typical / 9 vdc input for
>>AK-550-12)
>>
>>@12 amps full load output 30.0 amps typical / 14 vdc input for
>>AK-550-12)
>>
>>
>>.11a typ. @ no load for -6
>>
>>322a typ. @ no load for -12
>>
>>
>>Now How would one find out what the required input current is for each
>>amp pulled from the booster???
>>
>>Aka
>>
>>Supply booster with 14 volts booster is supplying a device running at
>>28vdc and draws 5 amps HOW many amps does the booster NEED???
>>
>>I must be missing something right in front of my nose...
>>
>>It's late maybe I need sleep
>>Thanks
>>Jeff.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 |
Booster
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>I'm confused. Ohm's law says E = I * R. If R is constant, and E drops, so must
>I. So if you lower the voltage, less current should pass. Why is this
>impossible? That's exactly what a rheostat lamp dimmer does - it drops some of
>the input voltage to lower the effective wattage of the bulb.
>
>Am I missing something?
>
>
Yes, you are. We are talking about a regulated power supply here. The supply
will draw whatever current it needs from the source voltage to supply whatever
current is being drawn from the output (until it is overloaded).
I am not sure how to better explain it in layman's terms (I am an electrical engineer,
sorry :-) ) but I will give it a try.
The internal circuitry of the power supply serves to convert input power to output power. The original data were typed wrong (see the data sheet for the correct values http://www.n973a.net/AK-550-12.pdf ). based on this data, the conversion efficiency is 80% - for 10 watts of output you must put 12.5 watts in (2.5 watts ends up as heat and 10 watts goes to the output). The power supply (within its design constraints) doesn't care how it gets its input power - it can take anything from 9V to 16V. When it takes 12.5 watts of input to make 10W of output it can take 9V @ 1.4A or 13V @ .96A or 16V @ .78A (or anything in between these numbers). Of course, this is somewhat oversimplified since a power supply's efficiency will vary somewhat depending on the input voltage and output load.
Dick Tasker
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Fire Detector |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris <dave@davemorris.com>
>
> Here's the new style thermostat:
> http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-040-198-119-KIT&Click> 18774
>
Dave Hi!
Many Thanks for the link
Regards
Gerry
Do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Annunciator Light Bulb |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Try here:
http://www.chml.com/
There search engine does not show it but I would call them any way, it
might be superceded.
At 05:19 AM 4/2/04 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy@att.net>
>
>Anyone have a source for a CM388 light bulb? These are the 12v, really
>small light bulbs for my annunciator panel buttons. A Google search only
>showed one hit.... but they wanted $9 for each bulb and you had to buy 4 of
>em!!!
>
>Any leads to another source would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Jack Lockamy
>Camarillo, CA
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Annunciator Light Bulb |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Found it here:
http://www.chml.com/assets/databookpdf/2-48.pdf
Really need to call them
At 05:19 AM 4/2/04 -0800, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy@att.net>
>
>Anyone have a source for a CM388 light bulb? These are the 12v, really
>small light bulbs for my annunciator panel buttons. A Google search only
>showed one hit.... but they wanted $9 for each bulb and you had to buy 4 of
>em!!!
>
>Any leads to another source would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Jack Lockamy
>Camarillo, CA
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bussmann fuse block |
survey question
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
Charley -
YOur pictures of the 15710 buss blocks were not attached to the email.
Could you send them directly to me attached to an email?
jschroeder@perigee.net Thanks,
John
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: How to calculate current draw on a AK-550-12 |
Booster
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chad Robinson <crobinson@rfgonline.com>
Richard Tasker wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
>
>
>>I'm confused. Ohm's law says E = I * R. If R is constant, and E drops, so must
>>I. So if you lower the voltage, less current should pass. Why is this
>>impossible? That's exactly what a rheostat lamp dimmer does - it drops some of
>>the input voltage to lower the effective wattage of the bulb.
>>
>>Am I missing something?
>>
>>
>
> Yes, you are. We are talking about a regulated power supply here. The supply
will draw whatever current it needs from the source voltage to supply whatever
current is being drawn from the output (until it is overloaded).
Ah! Sorry, the PDF link didn't work for me and I didn't realize this thing was
a power supply. I thought it was an actual device of some sort.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Bussmann fuse |
block survey question
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <chaskuss@bellsouth.net>
John,
The list server strips out all attachments. This is because of problems with virus'
in the past. I'll send you a copy this evening when I get home. I don't
have those photos on my shop computer.
Charlie
>
> From: John Schroeder <jschroeder@perigee.net>
> Date: 2004/04/02 Fri PM 01:28:51 EST
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Fuse block mounting photos was AeroElectric-List: Bussmann fuse
block survey question
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:23 PM 3/30/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
>
>Bob,
>
>Are you aware of a round connector that uses the same pins as the standard
>D-sub connector? If so, source?
>
>Can use a standard connector in my application, but round would be easier.
>Don't want to go the route of another pin type with new crimper.
See the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors on
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T041/0222.pdf
>TIA for a great service provided.
You're welcome!
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 26
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|
Don Ward <donald.l.ward@erdc.usace.army.mil>,
aeroelectric list <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>,
Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>,
"Anderson, Ed" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>,
"avionics-list@matronics.com" <avionics-list@matronics.com>,
"Berry, Imogene " <gibfly@aol.com>,
"bourgeois, Gene (home)" <bourgeois101@msn.com>,
"Boyd, Bill " <SportAV8R@aol.com>, "Buchanan, Sam " <sbuc@hiwaay.net>,
"Burris, Curt" <CBBur@worldnet.att.net>,
"Callahan, Michael D. " <micallahan@worldnet.att.net>,
"Calvert, Jerry " <rv6bldr@home.com>,
"Canizaro, Paul " <Paul@lostsquadron.com>,
"Carter, Tommy Sue Paxton" <paxton@iamerica.net>
| Subject: | Party Time at Slobovia Outernational Airport!! |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland@netdoor.com>
Greetings Fellow Aviators,
The Lower Slobovia Outernational Garden Club would like to extend to You
and Yours a cordial invitation to our next effort to cultivate more
frequent pilotage, higher flour bombing accuracy, and an increased
consumption of non plant food matter.
We will be serving lunch to you on Saturday, June 5, 2004.
I'll make available sheet metal tools & aluminum for anyone wanting
their 1st exposure to metal work. For those interested in alternative
engines, I'll try ot hav a Mazda rotary opened up for inspection.
Formation flight teams are invited to attend & demonstrate their skills.
(Mike Stewart, are you listening?) Plaques will be awarde for flour
bombing, longest distance flown, & other categories & as determined by
our totally biased judges.
Anyone wishing to arrive on Friday and/or stay until Sunday is welcome
to do so. Just throw a bedrool in your plane/car & we will find yo a
place to sleep that's out of the heat. There are lots of spare bedrooms,
hangar apartments, floor space, etc. available with the sponsoring
families. We will do continental breakfast stuff in the morning & poll
the participants for evening meal decisions. Some of our pilots actually
consider themselves multitalented & encourage you to bring your musical
instrument of choice for some homegrown music in the evening.
Now for the details:
Disclaimer: Slobovia is a private airport. Pilots operate at their own risk.
You can get complete info about our airport at airnav.com
http://www.airnav.com/airport/MS71
FAA Identifier: MS71
Lat/Long: 32-29-42.508N / 090-17-34.325W
32-29.70847N / 090-17.57208W
32.4951411 / -90.2928681
(estimated)
Elevation: 250 ft. / 76 m (estimated)
Variation: 03E (1985)
From city: 1 mile N of POCAHONTAS, MS (10 miles N of Jackson MS)
Airport Operations
Airport use: Private use. Permission required prior to landing
Activation date: 11/1988
Sectional chart: MEMPHIS
<http://www.airnav.com/ad/click/taHR0cDovL3d3dy5hdnNob3.uY29tL3NlY3Rpb25hbGNoYXJ0cy5odG1sP3Jl+LZj05MyBhdnNob3..>
Control tower: no
ARTCC: MEMPHIS CENTER
FSS: GREENWOOD FLIGHT SERVICE STATION [1-800-WX-BRIEF]
Attendance: UNATNDD
Wind indicator: yes
Segmented circle: no
Lights: RDO REQ
Beacon: unknown
Airport Communications
UNICOM: 122.75
WX ASOS at HKS (10 nm S): 120.625 (601-354-4037)
WX ASOS at JAN (16 nm SE): PHONE 601-932-2822
Nearby radio navigation aids
VOR radial/distance VOR name Freq Var
JAN
<http://www.airnav.com/cgi-bin/navaid-info?id=JAN&type=VORTAC&name=JACKSON>r258/6.4
JACKSON VORTAC
112.60
05E
Runway Information
Runway 15/33
Dimensions: 3540 x 80 ft. / 1079 x 24 m
Surface: turf
RUNWAY 15 RUNWAY 33
Traffic pattern: left
left
Obstructions: 70 ft. trees, 200 ft. from runway
none
If you need driving directions or more info, feel free to email me at
cengland@netdoor.com
or call at 601-879-9596.
Charlie
Message 27
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" <tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
Bob wrote:
You've got a 40-hour fly-off to do. Suggest you investigate these
values and then enlighten us.
Bob . . .
Yes, but....., I think that many times the fly-off period is when major
problems, if any, rear their scary heads. I don't want to wait until after
I need a fire detector to install one. Fortunately a few guys have made
suggestions regarding maximum acceptable cowling exit air temperatures,
ranging from 51degreesC to 86degreesC. I think I'll start out with a 95C
encapsulated thermostat. If I get nuisance trips during the fly-off
period, I'll increase the temperature range. Now for an important question:
Is a NO or a NC sensor better for this application? Or does it make any
difference? I can imagine that NC might be better, since a fire might
"open" a sensor wire......
Regards,
Troy
tscott1217@bellsouth.net
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