Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:45 AM - Alternator Field Circuit Breaker (Mickey Coggins)
2. 05:31 AM - Re: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker (LarryRobertHelming)
3. 05:35 AM - Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? (LarryRobertHelming)
4. 05:41 AM - Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? (LarryRobertHelming)
5. 09:25 AM - Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:34 AM - Re: ignitions lock switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:36 AM - Re: alt/battery troubles (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:36 AM - Photos of Dual LSE ignition installation? (czechsix@juno.com)
9. 12:03 PM - Re: Mounting fuseblocks (Steve Sampson)
10. 12:03 PM - Re: radio wiring (Steve Sampson)
11. 12:20 PM - Re: ignitions lock switch (Mickey Coggins)
12. 12:48 PM - Re: Party Time at Slobovia Outernational (Dave Morris)
13. 01:16 PM - Re: Photos of Dual LSE ignition installation? (James Redmon)
14. 02:07 PM - Re: Party Time at Slobovia Outernational Airport!! (SportAV8R@aol.com)
15. 02:12 PM - Radio wiring (Ted Hultzapple)
16. 03:02 PM - Party Time (hausding, sid)
17. 03:05 PM - Re: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker and OVP (Eric M. Jones)
18. 06:26 PM - Re: ignitions lock switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 06:55 PM - Re: Radio wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 07:02 PM - Re: Party Time at Slobovia Outernational (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 08:54 PM - Re: Field alternator circuit breaker (John Karnes)
22. 09:55 PM - Help please - (possible) alt/battery troubles (Troy Scott)
23. 10:02 PM - Fire Detector (Troy Scott)
24. 10:11 PM - Re: alt/battery troubles (James Redmon)
25. 10:17 PM - fancy switches (Troy Scott)
26. 10:35 PM - Re: ignitions lock switch (Mickey Coggins)
27. 11:13 PM - Re: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker (Mickey Coggins)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Alternator Field Circuit Breaker |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi,
I know there is a description somewhere in the book
or on the Aeroelectric web site about why we want to
install the 5 amp alternator field circuit breaker,
but I can't seem to locate it.
Can someone point me to this text?
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Maybe you are referring to the requirement that the 5amp CB be used when
using B and C's LR3 voltage regulator. That is how the VR shuts down the
ALT when it senses an OV condition.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp
TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
JeffRose Flightline Interiors
Firewall Forward, Wiring
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
<mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> Hi,
>
> I know there is a description somewhere in the book
> or on the Aeroelectric web site about why we want to
> install the 5 amp alternator field circuit breaker,
> but I can't seem to locate it.
>
> Can someone point me to this text?
>
> Thanks,
> Mickey
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: <N1deltawhiskey@aol.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Round connector with D-sub pins?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
>
> Thanks to all. Found what I needed locally in an AMP circular flanged
> connector. Now I am wishing I used these for all of my connectors rather
than the
> usual D-subs since they are bayonet locking rather than using the little
metal
> screws to hold them together.
(((((((((())))))))))))
You could try using safety wire for holding d-subs together rather than the
tiny screws. That way it cannot vibrate it self loose.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp
TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
JeffRose Flightline Interiors
Firewall Forward, Wiring
((((((((((()))))))))
>
> Regards,
>
> Doug
>
> In a message dated 3/30/2004 7:53:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
>
> > >Are you aware of a round connector that uses the same pins as the
standard
> > >D-sub connector? If so, source?
> > >
> > >Can use a standard connector in my application, but round would be
easier.
> > >Don't want to go the route of another pin type with new crimper.
> >
> > See the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors on
> > http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T041/0222.pdf
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
((((((((())))))))))
Bob, this looks like the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors would be a
great product for you to carry and sell. I assume they use the same gold
pins that you/BandC sells, isn't that correct?
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp
TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
JeffRose Flightline Interiors
Firewall Forward, Wiring with Nuckolls Nowledge
((((((((((()))))))))))
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Round connector with D-sub pins?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
> At 05:23 PM 3/30/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >Are you aware of a round connector that uses the same pins as the
standard
> >D-sub connector? If so, source?
> >
> >Can use a standard connector in my application, but round would be
easier.
> >Don't want to go the route of another pin type with new crimper.
>
> See the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors on
> http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T041/0222.pdf
>
>
> >TIA for a great service provided.
>
> You're welcome!
>
> Bob . . .
>
> -----------------------------------------
> ( Experience and common sense cannot be )
> ( replaced with policy and procedures. )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> -----------------------------------------
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 07:43 AM 4/5/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
><lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
>((((((((())))))))))
>Bob, this looks like the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors would be a
>great product for you to carry and sell. I assume they use the same gold
>pins that you/BandC sells, isn't that correct?
Yes . . . but so many others already offer them . . .
I don't stock detail parts any more but B&C does. I'll forward
a copy of this to Todd and see what he thinks.
Bob . . .
>Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp
>TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
>JeffRose Flightline Interiors
>Firewall Forward, Wiring with Nuckolls Nowledge
>((((((((((()))))))))))
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Round connector with D-sub pins?
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
> >
> > At 05:23 PM 3/30/2004 -0500, you wrote:
> > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com
> > >
> > >Bob,
> > >
> > >Are you aware of a round connector that uses the same pins as the
>standard
> > >D-sub connector? If so, source?
> > >
> > >Can use a standard connector in my application, but round would be
>easier.
> > >Don't want to go the route of another pin type with new crimper.
> >
> > See the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors on
> > http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T041/0222.pdf
> >
> >
> > >TIA for a great service provided.
> >
> > You're welcome!
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> > -----------------------------------------
> > ( Experience and common sense cannot be )
> > ( replaced with policy and procedures. )
> > ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> > -----------------------------------------
> >
>
>
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: ignitions lock switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 10:11 PM 4/4/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott"
><tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>I'd like to avoid the "hot ignition syndrome" in my Glasair with dual
>Electroair electronic ignition systems. I'm considering the use of a
>key-operated DP switch to control the power to the two ignitions. I realize
>this creates a single-point failure. However, it seems like it might be the
>best way to avoid the possibility of an accidental start if/when a switch is
>accidentally left on. Check out Digikey part number CKC1235-ND and let me
>know if you think this switch is up to the task.
>
>I also want to avoid an accidental actuation of the starter. Scenario: The
>canopy is open at a fly-in. An incorrigibly curious person reaches in and
>flips a couple of switches, including the battery and start switches. This
>happens while someone is closely checking out the propeller. I've bought a
>300 amp key-operated battery switch for this particular possibility.
>However, I don't much like the idea. Might it be better to install a hidden
>"kill switch" that only interrupts the primary on the starter contactor? An
>even simpler possibility is to just pull the fuse for the starter contactor
>or the battery contactor whenever the airplane is left open.
>
>What are you guys doing about these worries?
. . . for the most part, most folks don't worry about 'em.
I've been working in and around aircraft for 40+ years. Every
accident involving people and propellers was precipitated
by the actions of people who ALREADY had keys or knew where
HIDDEN switches were. Policy and procedure will never replace
experience and common sense.
Bob. . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: alt/battery troubles |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 11:04 PM 4/4/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" <james@berkut13.com>
>
> > If you're simply needing the greater capacity, then wire the two
> > batteries in parallel and treat them as one battery. I'm mystified
> > as to what combination of things is piling up to make your engine
> > so hard to crank. What engine and starter combination do you have?
> > Where is your battery located with respect to the engine and what
> > size fat wire is used to hook all the cranking circuits up?
>
>I'm rather frustrated with this issue too, Bob. As always, thank you for
>your patience. I have a high 10:1 compression IO-360-B2B (200 hp),
>w/Sky-Tek starter - PM version.
>
>Here is the system, from battery to starter, the lay-out is exactly Z-12,
>canard with battery in the back:
>
>Panasonic 17ah battery (pos term) in aft compartment - 18" 4AWG flex cable -
>master relay - 8" 2AWG cable - Starter relay on engine side of firewall -
>30" 2AWG cable - starter. Ground from battery uses 20" 4AWG flex to engine
>mount bolt for pass through (all major grounds terminate here) - B&C flex
>strap for engine ground from the same pass through bolt (yes, sanded under
>engine attach bolt). No wires get warm during extended cranking...with the
>exception of the small braided strap on the Sky-Tek starter that jumps
>between the integrated relay and the starter motor - it gets rather hot
>during multiple starts.
>
> From battery ground terminal to starter's case measures .3 ohms, as does
>anywhere on the engine case.
>
>Does that help? I should have the parts for connection Tuesday...I'll
>report back. If that doesn't work...I got LOTS of re-work to do to
>accommodate a single 28ah battery.
It would be VERY interesting to see how a B&C starter
performs in this application. Everything you've described
suggests that the starter is the questionable variable.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Photos of Dual LSE ignition installation? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
Guys,
Does anyone have pics of how they installed coils and ignition leads for a dual
Lightspeed ignition system for the BOTTOM plugs? I've seen lots of pics for
the top plugs installation, but none for the lower ones. I'm thinking of hanging
the coils just ahead of the sump, but that puts them close to the exhaust
and means I have to run the coax from the igntion box around the sump to get to
the coils. Perhaps it would be better to hang the coils behind the acc. case??
Any input/advice on how others have done this would be appreciated...
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...
Message 9
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| Subject: | Mounting fuseblocks |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Larry right after I sent a mail to Charlie I saw yours. I think I tried
AN509-8, but I must have made a mistake. I will take a look tomorrow again.
Thanks, Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
LarryRobertHelming
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mounting fuseblocks
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
<lhelming@sigecom.net>
I used AN509 type screws with washer and AN lock nut. (I don't like
mounting plate nuts if I can get to both sides of the mounting wall after
everything is installed for maintenance purposes -- and in this case it
wasn't a problem.)
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp
TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
JeffRose Flightline Interiors
Firewall Forward, Wiring
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mounting fuseblocks
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
<SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
> I have the B&C fuseblocks and am interested to know what screws/nutplates
> folk have been using to mount them on an ally bulkhead. Without modifying
> the fuseblocks this is not as obvious (at least to me) as it should be.
> Thanks, Steve.
>
> ---
>
>
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
Message 10
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Thanks Bob. Right now I cant make that web page work. I get an unavailable
message. I will try later, Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: radio wiring
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 08:01 PM 4/4/2004 +0100, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson"
><SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
>
>Yes my query was perhaps too terse.
>
>I was thinking that for the headphones (ears) even a twisted pair was not
>necessary since it seemed an unlikely source of gremlins into the system.
> From your email I understand a shielded wire would be best.
>
>For the microphone I had made the assumption there would only be two wires
>(hence a wire and shield) and the PTT would be activated by taking one of
>these to ground, but I was planning to do this via the PTT at the radio not
>jack end of the wire for routing reasons. (I havn't bought a radio yet -
>probably Microair or XCOM) and am making assumptions about how the wiring
>diag will look, perhaps erroniously. I will go with two shielded twisted
>wires.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/avionics/760imB.pdf
for an exemplar wiring diagram for comm transceiver. Also,
if you DO decide to install the 760VHF, I still have a few
wire harnesses for that radio.
>Whatever happens all the grounds will run back to a forest of tabs on the
>firewall.
Just POWER grounds go to the forest of tabs ground block. Signal
grounds and shields wire as shown in installation diagrams.
Check out diagrams in the installation manual I cited above.
The only wires that go to the ground block have the
G3(PNL) notation on the ground symbol.
Bob . . .
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: ignitions lock switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Isn't there some kind of extremely useful rule that says
you have to have two locks on your airplane?
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Party Time at Slobovia Outernational |
Airport!!
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris <dave@davemorris.com>
Not sure what this has to do with aircraft electrical systems. I hope
every Tom Dick and Harry with an airshow doesn't decide to advertise it
here. I get 500 spam e-mails every day that I have to weed through already.
Dave Morris
At 10:56 PM 4/2/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England
><cengland@netdoor.com>
>
>Greetings Fellow Aviators,
>
>The Lower Slobovia Outernational Garden Club would like to extend to You
>and Yours a cordial invitation to our next effort to cultivate more
>frequent pilotage, higher flour bombing accuracy, and an increased
>consumption of non plant food matter.
>
>We will be serving lunch to you on Saturday, June 5, 2004.
>
>I'll make available sheet metal tools & aluminum for anyone wanting
>their 1st exposure to metal work. For those interested in alternative
>engines, I'll try ot hav a Mazda rotary opened up for inspection.
>Formation flight teams are invited to attend & demonstrate their skills.
>(Mike Stewart, are you listening?) Plaques will be awarde for flour
>bombing, longest distance flown, & other categories & as determined by
>our totally biased judges.
>
>Anyone wishing to arrive on Friday and/or stay until Sunday is welcome
>to do so. Just throw a bedrool in your plane/car & we will find yo a
>place to sleep that's out of the heat. There are lots of spare bedrooms,
>hangar apartments, floor space, etc. available with the sponsoring
>families. We will do continental breakfast stuff in the morning & poll
>the participants for evening meal decisions. Some of our pilots actually
>consider themselves multitalented & encourage you to bring your musical
>instrument of choice for some homegrown music in the evening.
>
>Now for the details:
>
>Disclaimer: Slobovia is a private airport. Pilots operate at their own risk.
>
>You can get complete info about our airport at airnav.com
>http://www.airnav.com/airport/MS71
>
>FAA Identifier: MS71
>Lat/Long: 32-29-42.508N / 090-17-34.325W
>32-29.70847N / 090-17.57208W
>32.4951411 / -90.2928681
>(estimated)
>Elevation: 250 ft. / 76 m (estimated)
>Variation: 03E (1985)
> From city: 1 mile N of POCAHONTAS, MS (10 miles N of Jackson MS)
>
> Airport Operations
>
>Airport use: Private use. Permission required prior to landing
>Activation date: 11/1988
>Sectional chart: MEMPHIS
><http://www.airnav.com/ad/click/taHR0cDovL3d3dy5hdnNob3.uY29tL3NlY3Rpb25hbGNoYXJ0cy5odG1sP3Jl+LZj05MyBhdnNob3..>
>
>
>Control tower: no
>ARTCC: MEMPHIS CENTER
>FSS: GREENWOOD FLIGHT SERVICE STATION [1-800-WX-BRIEF]
>Attendance: UNATNDD
>Wind indicator: yes
>Segmented circle: no
>Lights: RDO REQ
>Beacon: unknown
>
>
> Airport Communications
>
>UNICOM: 122.75
>WX ASOS at HKS (10 nm S): 120.625 (601-354-4037)
>WX ASOS at JAN (16 nm SE): PHONE 601-932-2822
>
>
> Nearby radio navigation aids
>
>VOR radial/distance VOR name Freq Var
>JAN
><http://www.airnav.com/cgi-bin/navaid-info?id=JAN&type=VORTAC&name=JACKSON>r258/6.4
>
>
> JACKSON VORTAC
> 112.60
> 05E
>
> Runway Information
>
>
> Runway 15/33
>
>Dimensions: 3540 x 80 ft. / 1079 x 24 m
>Surface: turf
>
> RUNWAY 15 RUNWAY 33
>Traffic pattern: left
> left
>Obstructions: 70 ft. trees, 200 ft. from runway
> none
>
>If you need driving directions or more info, feel free to email me at
>cengland@netdoor.com
>or call at 601-879-9596.
>
>Charlie
>
>
Dave Morris
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Photos of Dual LSE ignition installation? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" <james@berkut13.com>
The only way I have seen them done in the past was to attached them to the
engine mount tubing with Adel clamps and run the leads to the plugs just
like the mag line would run. Sorry, no pictures of them.
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com
>
>
> Guys,
>
> Does anyone have pics of how they installed coils and ignition leads for a
dual Lightspeed ignition system for the BOTTOM plugs? I've seen lots of
pics for the top plugs installation, but none for the lower ones. I'm
thinking of hanging the coils just ahead of the sump, but that puts them
close to the exhaust and means I have to run the coax from the igntion box
around the sump to get to the coils. Perhaps it would be better to hang the
coils behind the acc. case?? Any input/advice on how others have done this
would be appreciated...
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Party Time at Slobovia Outernational Airport!! |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
In a message dated 4/5/2004 2:48:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, dave@davemorris.com
writes:
> Not sure what this has to do with aircraft electrical systems. I hope
> every Tom Dick and Harry with an airshow doesn't decide to advertise it
> here. I get 500 spam e-mails every day that I have to weed
> through already.
>
> Dave Morris
But I bet none are from long-time RV-List supporters and all-around great guys
like Charlie England. I think by posting here he was trying to invite experimentally-inclined
people beyond the RV-Type community to the fly-in. It's called
hospitality, and it's a trait you can't beat out of a Southerner.
If a flight to Mississippi is not your thing, there are more gracious ways to decline
the gentleman's invitation :-)
-Bill B
do not archive <-- notice this, Dave? <hint>
Message 15
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ted Hultzapple" <thultzap@rochester.rr.com>
Trying to follow the mic jack and headphone jack wiring thread. I understand
that the only ground for the radio is to the ground tabs. Still trying to
figure out where the PTT should ground. On my Ray Allen stick control the
PTT goes to ground along with all of the trim functions(aircraft ground).
Will the PTT ground properly even if the mic jack is isolated from the
airframe as suggested?
Ted
Message 16
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" <sidh@charter.net>
Well put Bill, I nominate you for diplomat of the week.......not everything
can be "all business" and I thought the invitation to be quite well planned,
thought out, and entertaining. I wish all flyin information would be this
complete and safety conscience. Maybe the lone dissenter was having a bad
day, or can't make the flyin.......
Sorry Bob, we strayed. Get the wet noodle(s) out........
Sid
----------------------
> Not sure what this has to do with aircraft electrical systems. I hope
> every Tom Dick and Harry with an airshow doesn't decide to advertise it
> here. I get 500 spam e-mails every day that I have to weed
> through already.
>
> Dave Morris
But I bet none are from long-time RV-List supporters and all-around great
guys like Charlie England. I think by posting here he was trying to invite
experimentally-inclined people beyond the RV-Type community to the fly-in
It's called hospitality, and it's a trait you can't beat out of a Southerner
If a flight to Mississippi is not your thing, there are more gracious ways
to decline the gentleman's invitation :-)
-Bill B
do not archive <-- notice this, Dave? <hint>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker and OVP |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
The function of most circuit breakers is to open when there is too much
current in a circuit. In a general sense, a circuit interrupter could open
a circuit whenever any bad condition occurs---let's say the circuit has too
much voltage across it, or if an earthquake or flood occurs--whatever.
But the alternator field circuit breaker cannot only respond to too high a
voltage, since the standard hazardous occurrences could easily cause an
overcurrent too. So the alternator field circuit breaker still needs an
overcurrent interupter as well as an overvoltage interrupter.
So (I'm getting to a point here), The OVP serves the function of detecting
the overvoltage and forcing the current operated circuit breaker to open.
Many vendors sell crowbar-type OVP's. I offer several non-crowbar types too
(but curiously have never sold one).
So (I'm still getting to a point here), I envision the standard aircraft
alternator field circuit breaker should be only the current operated device
with a healthy 18V TVS from its output to ground.
No OVP module.
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: ignitions lock switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 09:17 PM 4/5/2004 +0200, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
><mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>
>Isn't there some kind of extremely useful rule that says
>you have to have two locks on your airplane?
Don't think there were any "rules" before 9/11 when
lots of folks with too much time on their hands decided
to sit down and make some.
I know of perhaps a dozen airplanes sitting on various
fields around Wichita that I could fly away with without
having to get past any form of "security". 95% of
the rest of the fleet, I could fly away with after having
done very little damage to the airplane in spite of a
multiplicity of "locked" doors AND ignition switches . . .
My dad is a locksmith. You ought to see how quickly
he can get "locked" things open and damage nothing. He's
told me more than once that, "locks only keep honest
people honest. If somebody wants your stuff, the lock
is merely an inconvenience." In the case of airplanes,
locks only keep the stupid from hurting themselves or
others at substantial inconvenience and expense to owners
and responsible users.
If one wants and/or is required to HAVE some form of
real security, I've oft suggested the hardened steel
chain with a soft cover wrapped figure-8 around the prop
blades and closed with a REALLY good lock. This puts
the "security" right out front where anyone
trying to work around it is most likely to be observed.
Given that all other airplanes are so much easier
to steal, your airplane will be very low on an already
miniscule list of potential victims.
A very popular worry for the 15+ years I've been
working in OBAM aviation is the possible outcome from
ignorant and/or random switch-flippers who just might
have occasion to gain access to the cockpit. If this
is at a show, the 100% safe technique (required by
most shows) is to disconnect one lead of the battery
while the airplane is parked and accessible to anyone
other than authorized pilots and passengers. When
anyone gets into my airplane, the first sign of
undisciplined behavior will get him one warning. There's
no second warning, only an immediate invitation
out of the airplane. Never had to do it after
over a hundred flights for various kinds of
rides . . . but won't hesitate carry out the action
as needed.
I recall standing just outside one of those nutrition
supplement super-stores in a mall and noting
perhaps 2,000 different bottles and cans of "stuff"
on the shelves . . . all offered to support some
normal bodily function or to repair some malfunction.
I thought it would be interesting to walk in and ask
for a quote on "one-of-everything."
Gee, if all these things are so useful, it seems
the best thing I could do is take them all. After
all, not a single one has a hazard warning label
on it and virtually every one has virtues supported
paragraphs of not full books of words. None-the-less,
the sales-person would no doubt recommend that I
reduce my intended purchase the few products most
helpful to me.
"Hmmmm . . . I think I'm feeling fine . . . Oh,
no, my knees are aching a bit". I don't tell him
that I've just walked four loops around the mall
at 75% power.
"Aha! Over here we have stuff for aching joints."
"Great, which one do I need?"
"Uh, well, there are several dozen . . . perhaps
one of these books would be helpful."
"Can't you can't tell me which is the most effective
product?"
"Uh, no, all the books recommend different products . . .
but as you can see here, we stock them all! Just read
through all of these books under 'joint pain' and
I'm certain we'll have the product recommend by the
author you find the most persuasive."
As you pour over the stock of suggested preventives
and cures for any technology, see if the "problem"
really exists and that both problem and solution
are reduced to well understood simple-ideas. Just
because there are a lot of words written about any
of them doesn't mean the writer has the foggiest
notion of what they're writing about. No need to
study anything if you have a hyperactive imagination.
Shucks. You wouldn't belive what I saw happen on TV
just last week!
No doubt there are dozens if not hundreds of OBAM
(and certified) machines fitted with extra key locks,
hidden switches, etc. It's a further certainty
that folks with the power to make rules have assuaged their
own ignorant concerns with mandates for any number of
additional "safeguards". If these features make
the owner feel better, so be it. My only heartburn
with questions and discussions on this topic is that
I am unable to offer much thoughtful advise for folks
who find comfort in adding them to their airplanes.
Bob . . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Radio wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 05:13 PM 4/5/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ted Hultzapple"
><thultzap@rochester.rr.com>
>
>Trying to follow the mic jack and headphone jack wiring thread. I understand
>that the only ground for the radio is to the ground tabs. Still trying to
>figure out where the PTT should ground. On my Ray Allen stick control the
>PTT goes to ground along with all of the trim functions(aircraft ground).
>Will the PTT ground properly even if the mic jack is isolated from the
>airframe as suggested?
Sheet 2.1 of http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/avionics/760imB.pdf
shows the "ideal" PTT wiring . . . but should you choose to ground a stick
PTT button somewhere else AND have it share grounds with other stick
functions, there is little potential for problems. PTT currents are
very low and the circuit is not generally vulnerable as an interference
gateway to the radio.
Bob . . .
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Party Time at Slobovia Outernational |
Airport!!
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 02:48 PM 4/5/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris <dave@davemorris.com>
>
>Not sure what this has to do with aircraft electrical systems.
. . . maybe nothing. But it probably has a lot to do with
the sharing of simple-ideas on other aspects of aircraft
operation and construction . . . I go if I had the time.
> I hope
>every Tom Dick and Harry with an airshow doesn't decide to advertise it
>here. I get 500 spam e-mails every day that I have to weed through already.
Get a copy of MailWasher from http://www.mailwasher.net/
They have a "pro" version you pay for but the free one is
very effective. Given that my e-mail address is published
in over 700 places on the 'net, I get several hundred trash
items a day too. I don't spend two minutes a day going over
the MailWasher listing of downloaded mail to pick out new
items not already on my "friends" list.
This is a great piece of software.
Bob . . .
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Field alternator circuit breaker |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Karnes" <jpkarnes@earthlink.net>
> Okay, then it's a fault of some kind downstream of the breaker
> that's tripping. Wire rubbed to ground, bad regulator, . . .
> something along that line. You're getting close.
>
> Bob . . .
FOUND IT!!
During construction, I installed the fuse block over a bolt and it
contacted the bus bar. It shorted and melted a bit and I terminated power.
Removed bolt, reinstalled fuse block, etc. - thought everything was fine.
I took the fuse block off today and checked it. An area of melted plastic
in the back with a possible path to ground was apparent. I left the fuse
block off the firewall and started the engine. No circuit breaker
tripping!! Ordered replacement fuse block from B&C today. Thanks Bob et
al. for your help.
John Karnes
Port Orchard, WA
Message 22
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| Subject: | Help please - (possible) alt/battery troubles |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" <tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
James Redmon,
Which Skytec starter are you using? The PM Skytec requires inrush current
of 285 amps or more. Their newer inline starter (not PM) requires only
about 185 amps.
Regards,
Troy Scott
tscott1217@bellsouth.net
Message 23
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" <tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
Kevin,
I'm thinking this would be called "Firewall Hot" or "Hot" or something like
that...., not necessarily "!!FIRE!!". My response to this alarm would be to
land and look for an exhaust leak, or evidence of a fire. I'm really
thinking more of an advance warning of an impending problem, as opposed to
waiting for serious smoke or flames to appear.
Regards,
Troy
tscott1217@bellsouth.net
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: alt/battery troubles |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" <james@berkut13.com>
Parts came in early so I hooked up the two batteries in parallel this
evening. Zzzzing! Engine spins like crazy with a 10.3v bus voltage while
cranking. Tried cranking several successive times (more than 6 times, 10-15
blades each)...no appreciable degradation of cranking power or voltage. I
think this will work just fine. Now, with the two 17ah bats in parallel, I
have 34ah of energy on tap - quite a comfortable margin, even for a all
electric airplane.
Question: With the two batteries in parallel, do I have any special charging
concerns - either on the charger, or alternator?
Thanks all, and especially Bob, for all the help.
James Redmon
Berkut #013 N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com
> > > If you're simply needing the greater capacity, then wire the two
> > > batteries in parallel and treat them as one battery. I'm mystified
> > > as to what combination of things is piling up to make your engine
> > > so hard to crank. What engine and starter combination do you have?
> > > Where is your battery located with respect to the engine and what
> > > size fat wire is used to hook all the cranking circuits up?
> >
> >I'm rather frustrated with this issue too, Bob. As always, thank you for
> >your patience. I have a high 10:1 compression IO-360-B2B (200 hp),
> >w/Sky-Tek starter - PM version.
> >
> >Here is the system, from battery to starter, the lay-out is exactly Z-12,
> >canard with battery in the back:
> >
> >Panasonic 17ah battery (pos term) in aft compartment - 18" 4AWG flex
cable -
> >master relay - 8" 2AWG cable - Starter relay on engine side of firewall -
> >30" 2AWG cable - starter. Ground from battery uses 20" 4AWG flex to
engine
> >mount bolt for pass through (all major grounds terminate here) - B&C flex
> >strap for engine ground from the same pass through bolt (yes, sanded
under
> >engine attach bolt). No wires get warm during extended cranking...with
the
> >exception of the small braided strap on the Sky-Tek starter that jumps
> >between the integrated relay and the starter motor - it gets rather hot
> >during multiple starts.
> >
> > From battery ground terminal to starter's case measures .3 ohms, as does
> >anywhere on the engine case.
> >
> >Does that help? I should have the parts for connection Tuesday...I'll
> >report back. If that doesn't work...I got LOTS of re-work to do to
> >accommodate a single 28ah battery.
>
> It would be VERY interesting to see how a B&C starter
> performs in this application. Everything you've described
> suggests that the starter is the questionable variable.
>
> Bob . . .
Message 25
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" <tscott1217@bellsouth.net>
Gentlemen,
I've e-mailed the Honeywell techies and Aircraft Engravers with the
following questions, but I've not heard back from them. Then I thought, why
not ask the real experts! SO! How about this:
I need to know before ordering if the form factor of the switch operator
(the part you touch when operating the switch) is the same for the TP Series
and the AML34 Series rocker switches. I've found a company (Aircraft
Engravers) that will supply engraved operators for the AML34 Series. If you
go to the Aircraft Engravers website, you can see they offer Honeywell Style
One and Honeywell Style Two. Which one fits the TP Series? Aircraft
Engravers would engrave other styles, but I would have to supply the
operators. I don't even know if the operator is removable from the TP
Series as it is from the AML34 Series. Is the operator removable from the
TP Series? If so, I could buy the switches, remove the operators, and send
them to Aircraft Engravers. However, it would be mush simpler to just order
the engraved operators all at once for both the AML34 and the TP Series
switches.
Regards,
Troy Scott
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: ignitions lock switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>>Isn't there some kind of extremely useful rule that says
>>you have to have two locks on your airplane?
> [snip...]
> ...I am unable to offer much thoughtful advise for folks
> who find comfort in adding them to their airplanes.
As usual, both useful and entertaining!
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
do not archive
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>Maybe you are referring to the requirement that the 5amp CB be used when
>using B and C's LR3 voltage regulator. That is how the VR shuts down the
>ALT when it senses an OV condition.
I guess that must be it - thanks!
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
do not archive
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