---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/05/04: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:45 AM - Alternator Field Circuit Breaker (Mickey Coggins) 2. 05:31 AM - Re: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker (LarryRobertHelming) 3. 05:35 AM - Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? (LarryRobertHelming) 4. 05:41 AM - Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? (LarryRobertHelming) 5. 09:25 AM - Re: Round connector with D-sub pins? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 09:34 AM - Re: ignitions lock switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 09:36 AM - Re: alt/battery troubles (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 10:36 AM - Photos of Dual LSE ignition installation? (czechsix@juno.com) 9. 12:03 PM - Re: Mounting fuseblocks (Steve Sampson) 10. 12:03 PM - Re: radio wiring (Steve Sampson) 11. 12:20 PM - Re: ignitions lock switch (Mickey Coggins) 12. 12:48 PM - Re: Party Time at Slobovia Outernational (Dave Morris) 13. 01:16 PM - Re: Photos of Dual LSE ignition installation? (James Redmon) 14. 02:07 PM - Re: Party Time at Slobovia Outernational Airport!! (SportAV8R@aol.com) 15. 02:12 PM - Radio wiring (Ted Hultzapple) 16. 03:02 PM - Party Time (hausding, sid) 17. 03:05 PM - Re: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker and OVP (Eric M. Jones) 18. 06:26 PM - Re: ignitions lock switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 19. 06:55 PM - Re: Radio wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 20. 07:02 PM - Re: Party Time at Slobovia Outernational (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 21. 08:54 PM - Re: Field alternator circuit breaker (John Karnes) 22. 09:55 PM - Help please - (possible) alt/battery troubles (Troy Scott) 23. 10:02 PM - Fire Detector (Troy Scott) 24. 10:11 PM - Re: alt/battery troubles (James Redmon) 25. 10:17 PM - fancy switches (Troy Scott) 26. 10:35 PM - Re: ignitions lock switch (Mickey Coggins) 27. 11:13 PM - Re: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker (Mickey Coggins) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:00 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi, I know there is a description somewhere in the book or on the Aeroelectric web site about why we want to install the 5 amp alternator field circuit breaker, but I can't seem to locate it. Can someone point me to this text? Thanks, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:44 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" Maybe you are referring to the requirement that the 5amp CB be used when using B and C's LR3 voltage regulator. That is how the VR shuts down the ALT when it senses an OV condition. Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak JeffRose Flightline Interiors Firewall Forward, Wiring ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mickey Coggins" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > Hi, > > I know there is a description somewhere in the book > or on the Aeroelectric web site about why we want to > install the 5 amp alternator field circuit breaker, > but I can't seem to locate it. > > Can someone point me to this text? > > Thanks, > Mickey > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:56 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Round connector with D-sub pins? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Round connector with D-sub pins? > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com > > Thanks to all. Found what I needed locally in an AMP circular flanged > connector. Now I am wishing I used these for all of my connectors rather than the > usual D-subs since they are bayonet locking rather than using the little metal > screws to hold them together. (((((((((()))))))))))) You could try using safety wire for holding d-subs together rather than the tiny screws. That way it cannot vibrate it self loose. Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak JeffRose Flightline Interiors Firewall Forward, Wiring ((((((((((())))))))) > > Regards, > > Doug > > In a message dated 3/30/2004 7:53:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, > bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes: > > > >Are you aware of a round connector that uses the same pins as the standard > > >D-sub connector? If so, source? > > > > > >Can use a standard connector in my application, but round would be easier. > > >Don't want to go the route of another pin type with new crimper. > > > > See the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors on > > http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T041/0222.pdf > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:33 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Round connector with D-sub pins? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" ((((((((()))))))))) Bob, this looks like the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors would be a great product for you to carry and sell. I assume they use the same gold pins that you/BandC sells, isn't that correct? Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak JeffRose Flightline Interiors Firewall Forward, Wiring with Nuckolls Nowledge ((((((((((())))))))))) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Round connector with D-sub pins? > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > At 05:23 PM 3/30/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com > > > >Bob, > > > >Are you aware of a round connector that uses the same pins as the standard > >D-sub connector? If so, source? > > > >Can use a standard connector in my application, but round would be easier. > >Don't want to go the route of another pin type with new crimper. > > See the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors on > http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T041/0222.pdf > > > >TIA for a great service provided. > > You're welcome! > > Bob . . . > > ----------------------------------------- > ( Experience and common sense cannot be ) > ( replaced with policy and procedures. ) > ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) > ----------------------------------------- > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:25:02 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Round connector with D-sub pins? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 07:43 AM 4/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" > > >((((((((()))))))))) >Bob, this looks like the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors would be a >great product for you to carry and sell. I assume they use the same gold >pins that you/BandC sells, isn't that correct? Yes . . . but so many others already offer them . . . I don't stock detail parts any more but B&C does. I'll forward a copy of this to Todd and see what he thinks. Bob . . . >Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp >TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak >JeffRose Flightline Interiors >Firewall Forward, Wiring with Nuckolls Nowledge >((((((((((())))))))))) >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >To: >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Round connector with D-sub pins? > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > > > At 05:23 PM 3/30/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: N1deltawhiskey@aol.com > > > > > >Bob, > > > > > >Are you aware of a round connector that uses the same pins as the >standard > > >D-sub connector? If so, source? > > > > > >Can use a standard connector in my application, but round would be >easier. > > >Don't want to go the route of another pin type with new crimper. > > > > See the Series 2 Circular Plastic connectors on > > http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T041/0222.pdf > > > > > > >TIA for a great service provided. > > > > You're welcome! > > > > Bob . . . > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > ( Experience and common sense cannot be ) > > ( replaced with policy and procedures. ) > > ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) > > ----------------------------------------- > > > > Bob . . . ----------------------------------------- ( Experience and common sense cannot be ) ( replaced with policy and procedures. ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ----------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:34:29 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ignitions lock switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:11 PM 4/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" > > >Gentlemen, > >I'd like to avoid the "hot ignition syndrome" in my Glasair with dual >Electroair electronic ignition systems. I'm considering the use of a >key-operated DP switch to control the power to the two ignitions. I realize >this creates a single-point failure. However, it seems like it might be the >best way to avoid the possibility of an accidental start if/when a switch is >accidentally left on. Check out Digikey part number CKC1235-ND and let me >know if you think this switch is up to the task. > >I also want to avoid an accidental actuation of the starter. Scenario: The >canopy is open at a fly-in. An incorrigibly curious person reaches in and >flips a couple of switches, including the battery and start switches. This >happens while someone is closely checking out the propeller. I've bought a >300 amp key-operated battery switch for this particular possibility. >However, I don't much like the idea. Might it be better to install a hidden >"kill switch" that only interrupts the primary on the starter contactor? An >even simpler possibility is to just pull the fuse for the starter contactor >or the battery contactor whenever the airplane is left open. > >What are you guys doing about these worries? . . . for the most part, most folks don't worry about 'em. I've been working in and around aircraft for 40+ years. Every accident involving people and propellers was precipitated by the actions of people who ALREADY had keys or knew where HIDDEN switches were. Policy and procedure will never replace experience and common sense. Bob. . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:50 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: alt/battery troubles --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 11:04 PM 4/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" > > > If you're simply needing the greater capacity, then wire the two > > batteries in parallel and treat them as one battery. I'm mystified > > as to what combination of things is piling up to make your engine > > so hard to crank. What engine and starter combination do you have? > > Where is your battery located with respect to the engine and what > > size fat wire is used to hook all the cranking circuits up? > >I'm rather frustrated with this issue too, Bob. As always, thank you for >your patience. I have a high 10:1 compression IO-360-B2B (200 hp), >w/Sky-Tek starter - PM version. > >Here is the system, from battery to starter, the lay-out is exactly Z-12, >canard with battery in the back: > >Panasonic 17ah battery (pos term) in aft compartment - 18" 4AWG flex cable - >master relay - 8" 2AWG cable - Starter relay on engine side of firewall - >30" 2AWG cable - starter. Ground from battery uses 20" 4AWG flex to engine >mount bolt for pass through (all major grounds terminate here) - B&C flex >strap for engine ground from the same pass through bolt (yes, sanded under >engine attach bolt). No wires get warm during extended cranking...with the >exception of the small braided strap on the Sky-Tek starter that jumps >between the integrated relay and the starter motor - it gets rather hot >during multiple starts. > > From battery ground terminal to starter's case measures .3 ohms, as does >anywhere on the engine case. > >Does that help? I should have the parts for connection Tuesday...I'll >report back. If that doesn't work...I got LOTS of re-work to do to >accommodate a single 28ah battery. It would be VERY interesting to see how a B&C starter performs in this application. Everything you've described suggests that the starter is the questionable variable. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:36:53 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Photos of Dual LSE ignition installation? From: czechsix@juno.com --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com Guys, Does anyone have pics of how they installed coils and ignition leads for a dual Lightspeed ignition system for the BOTTOM plugs? I've seen lots of pics for the top plugs installation, but none for the lower ones. I'm thinking of hanging the coils just ahead of the sump, but that puts them close to the exhaust and means I have to run the coax from the igntion box around the sump to get to the coils. Perhaps it would be better to hang the coils behind the acc. case?? Any input/advice on how others have done this would be appreciated... Thanks, --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D finishing... ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:29 PM PST US From: "Steve Sampson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Mounting fuseblocks --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" Larry right after I sent a mail to Charlie I saw yours. I think I tried AN509-8, but I must have made a mistake. I will take a look tomorrow again. Thanks, Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of LarryRobertHelming Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mounting fuseblocks --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" I used AN509 type screws with washer and AN lock nut. (I don't like mounting plate nuts if I can get to both sides of the mounting wall after everything is installed for maintenance purposes -- and in this case it wasn't a problem.) Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak JeffRose Flightline Interiors Firewall Forward, Wiring ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Sampson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mounting fuseblocks > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" > > I have the B&C fuseblocks and am interested to know what screws/nutplates > folk have been using to mount them on an ally bulkhead. Without modifying > the fuseblocks this is not as obvious (at least to me) as it should be. > Thanks, Steve. > > --- > > --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. --- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:38 PM PST US From: "Steve Sampson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: radio wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" Thanks Bob. Right now I cant make that web page work. I get an unavailable message. I will try later, Steve. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: radio wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:01 PM 4/4/2004 +0100, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" > > >Yes my query was perhaps too terse. > >I was thinking that for the headphones (ears) even a twisted pair was not >necessary since it seemed an unlikely source of gremlins into the system. > From your email I understand a shielded wire would be best. > >For the microphone I had made the assumption there would only be two wires >(hence a wire and shield) and the PTT would be activated by taking one of >these to ground, but I was planning to do this via the PTT at the radio not >jack end of the wire for routing reasons. (I havn't bought a radio yet - >probably Microair or XCOM) and am making assumptions about how the wiring >diag will look, perhaps erroniously. I will go with two shielded twisted >wires. See http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/avionics/760imB.pdf for an exemplar wiring diagram for comm transceiver. Also, if you DO decide to install the 760VHF, I still have a few wire harnesses for that radio. >Whatever happens all the grounds will run back to a forest of tabs on the >firewall. Just POWER grounds go to the forest of tabs ground block. Signal grounds and shields wire as shown in installation diagrams. Check out diagrams in the installation manual I cited above. The only wires that go to the ground block have the G3(PNL) notation on the ground symbol. Bob . . . --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. --- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:22 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ignitions lock switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Isn't there some kind of extremely useful rule that says you have to have two locks on your airplane? -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:38 PM PST US From: Dave Morris Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Party Time at Slobovia Outernational Airport!! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris Not sure what this has to do with aircraft electrical systems. I hope every Tom Dick and Harry with an airshow doesn't decide to advertise it here. I get 500 spam e-mails every day that I have to weed through already. Dave Morris At 10:56 PM 4/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie & Tupper England > > >Greetings Fellow Aviators, > >The Lower Slobovia Outernational Garden Club would like to extend to You >and Yours a cordial invitation to our next effort to cultivate more >frequent pilotage, higher flour bombing accuracy, and an increased >consumption of non plant food matter. > >We will be serving lunch to you on Saturday, June 5, 2004. > >I'll make available sheet metal tools & aluminum for anyone wanting >their 1st exposure to metal work. For those interested in alternative >engines, I'll try ot hav a Mazda rotary opened up for inspection. >Formation flight teams are invited to attend & demonstrate their skills. >(Mike Stewart, are you listening?) Plaques will be awarde for flour >bombing, longest distance flown, & other categories & as determined by >our totally biased judges. > >Anyone wishing to arrive on Friday and/or stay until Sunday is welcome >to do so. Just throw a bedrool in your plane/car & we will find yo a >place to sleep that's out of the heat. There are lots of spare bedrooms, >hangar apartments, floor space, etc. available with the sponsoring >families. We will do continental breakfast stuff in the morning & poll >the participants for evening meal decisions. Some of our pilots actually >consider themselves multitalented & encourage you to bring your musical >instrument of choice for some homegrown music in the evening. > >Now for the details: > >Disclaimer: Slobovia is a private airport. Pilots operate at their own risk. > >You can get complete info about our airport at airnav.com >http://www.airnav.com/airport/MS71 > >FAA Identifier: MS71 >Lat/Long: 32-29-42.508N / 090-17-34.325W >32-29.70847N / 090-17.57208W >32.4951411 / -90.2928681 >(estimated) >Elevation: 250 ft. / 76 m (estimated) >Variation: 03E (1985) > From city: 1 mile N of POCAHONTAS, MS (10 miles N of Jackson MS) > > Airport Operations > >Airport use: Private use. Permission required prior to landing >Activation date: 11/1988 >Sectional chart: MEMPHIS > > > >Control tower: no >ARTCC: MEMPHIS CENTER >FSS: GREENWOOD FLIGHT SERVICE STATION [1-800-WX-BRIEF] >Attendance: UNATNDD >Wind indicator: yes >Segmented circle: no >Lights: RDO REQ >Beacon: unknown > > > Airport Communications > >UNICOM: 122.75 >WX ASOS at HKS (10 nm S): 120.625 (601-354-4037) >WX ASOS at JAN (16 nm SE): PHONE 601-932-2822 > > > Nearby radio navigation aids > >VOR radial/distance VOR name Freq Var >JAN >r258/6.4 > > > JACKSON VORTAC > 112.60 > 05E > > Runway Information > > > Runway 15/33 > >Dimensions: 3540 x 80 ft. / 1079 x 24 m >Surface: turf > > RUNWAY 15 RUNWAY 33 >Traffic pattern: left > left >Obstructions: 70 ft. trees, 200 ft. from runway > none > >If you need driving directions or more info, feel free to email me at >cengland@netdoor.com >or call at 601-879-9596. > >Charlie > > Dave Morris ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:16:29 PM PST US From: "James Redmon" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Photos of Dual LSE ignition installation? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" The only way I have seen them done in the past was to attached them to the engine mount tubing with Adel clamps and run the leads to the plugs just like the mag line would run. Sorry, no pictures of them. James Redmon Berkut #013 N97TX http://www.berkut13.com > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: czechsix@juno.com > > > Guys, > > Does anyone have pics of how they installed coils and ignition leads for a dual Lightspeed ignition system for the BOTTOM plugs? I've seen lots of pics for the top plugs installation, but none for the lower ones. I'm thinking of hanging the coils just ahead of the sump, but that puts them close to the exhaust and means I have to run the coax from the igntion box around the sump to get to the coils. Perhaps it would be better to hang the coils behind the acc. case?? Any input/advice on how others have done this would be appreciated... ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:18 PM PST US From: SportAV8R@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Party Time at Slobovia Outernational Airport!! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com In a message dated 4/5/2004 2:48:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, dave@davemorris.com writes: > Not sure what this has to do with aircraft electrical systems. I hope > every Tom Dick and Harry with an airshow doesn't decide to advertise it > here. I get 500 spam e-mails every day that I have to weed > through already. > > Dave Morris But I bet none are from long-time RV-List supporters and all-around great guys like Charlie England. I think by posting here he was trying to invite experimentally-inclined people beyond the RV-Type community to the fly-in. It's called hospitality, and it's a trait you can't beat out of a Southerner. If a flight to Mississippi is not your thing, there are more gracious ways to decline the gentleman's invitation :-) -Bill B do not archive <-- notice this, Dave? ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:53 PM PST US From: "Ted Hultzapple" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ted Hultzapple" Trying to follow the mic jack and headphone jack wiring thread. I understand that the only ground for the radio is to the ground tabs. Still trying to figure out where the PTT should ground. On my Ray Allen stick control the PTT goes to ground along with all of the trim functions(aircraft ground). Will the PTT ground properly even if the mic jack is isolated from the airframe as suggested? Ted ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:17 PM PST US From: "hausding, sid" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Party Time --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "hausding, sid" Well put Bill, I nominate you for diplomat of the week.......not everything can be "all business" and I thought the invitation to be quite well planned, thought out, and entertaining. I wish all flyin information would be this complete and safety conscience. Maybe the lone dissenter was having a bad day, or can't make the flyin....... Sorry Bob, we strayed. Get the wet noodle(s) out........ Sid ---------------------- > Not sure what this has to do with aircraft electrical systems. I hope > every Tom Dick and Harry with an airshow doesn't decide to advertise it > here. I get 500 spam e-mails every day that I have to weed > through already. > > Dave Morris But I bet none are from long-time RV-List supporters and all-around great guys like Charlie England. I think by posting here he was trying to invite experimentally-inclined people beyond the RV-Type community to the fly-in It's called hospitality, and it's a trait you can't beat out of a Southerner If a flight to Mississippi is not your thing, there are more gracious ways to decline the gentleman's invitation :-) -Bill B do not archive <-- notice this, Dave? ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:36 PM PST US From: "Eric M. Jones" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker and OVP --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" The function of most circuit breakers is to open when there is too much current in a circuit. In a general sense, a circuit interrupter could open a circuit whenever any bad condition occurs---let's say the circuit has too much voltage across it, or if an earthquake or flood occurs--whatever. But the alternator field circuit breaker cannot only respond to too high a voltage, since the standard hazardous occurrences could easily cause an overcurrent too. So the alternator field circuit breaker still needs an overcurrent interupter as well as an overvoltage interrupter. So (I'm getting to a point here), The OVP serves the function of detecting the overvoltage and forcing the current operated circuit breaker to open. Many vendors sell crowbar-type OVP's. I offer several non-crowbar types too (but curiously have never sold one). So (I'm still getting to a point here), I envision the standard aircraft alternator field circuit breaker should be only the current operated device with a healthy 18V TVS from its output to ground. No OVP module. Regards, Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge MA 01550-2705 Phone (508) 764-2072 Email: emjones@charter.net ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:44 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ignitions lock switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:17 PM 4/5/2004 +0200, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > > >Isn't there some kind of extremely useful rule that says >you have to have two locks on your airplane? Don't think there were any "rules" before 9/11 when lots of folks with too much time on their hands decided to sit down and make some. I know of perhaps a dozen airplanes sitting on various fields around Wichita that I could fly away with without having to get past any form of "security". 95% of the rest of the fleet, I could fly away with after having done very little damage to the airplane in spite of a multiplicity of "locked" doors AND ignition switches . . . My dad is a locksmith. You ought to see how quickly he can get "locked" things open and damage nothing. He's told me more than once that, "locks only keep honest people honest. If somebody wants your stuff, the lock is merely an inconvenience." In the case of airplanes, locks only keep the stupid from hurting themselves or others at substantial inconvenience and expense to owners and responsible users. If one wants and/or is required to HAVE some form of real security, I've oft suggested the hardened steel chain with a soft cover wrapped figure-8 around the prop blades and closed with a REALLY good lock. This puts the "security" right out front where anyone trying to work around it is most likely to be observed. Given that all other airplanes are so much easier to steal, your airplane will be very low on an already miniscule list of potential victims. A very popular worry for the 15+ years I've been working in OBAM aviation is the possible outcome from ignorant and/or random switch-flippers who just might have occasion to gain access to the cockpit. If this is at a show, the 100% safe technique (required by most shows) is to disconnect one lead of the battery while the airplane is parked and accessible to anyone other than authorized pilots and passengers. When anyone gets into my airplane, the first sign of undisciplined behavior will get him one warning. There's no second warning, only an immediate invitation out of the airplane. Never had to do it after over a hundred flights for various kinds of rides . . . but won't hesitate carry out the action as needed. I recall standing just outside one of those nutrition supplement super-stores in a mall and noting perhaps 2,000 different bottles and cans of "stuff" on the shelves . . . all offered to support some normal bodily function or to repair some malfunction. I thought it would be interesting to walk in and ask for a quote on "one-of-everything." Gee, if all these things are so useful, it seems the best thing I could do is take them all. After all, not a single one has a hazard warning label on it and virtually every one has virtues supported paragraphs of not full books of words. None-the-less, the sales-person would no doubt recommend that I reduce my intended purchase the few products most helpful to me. "Hmmmm . . . I think I'm feeling fine . . . Oh, no, my knees are aching a bit". I don't tell him that I've just walked four loops around the mall at 75% power. "Aha! Over here we have stuff for aching joints." "Great, which one do I need?" "Uh, well, there are several dozen . . . perhaps one of these books would be helpful." "Can't you can't tell me which is the most effective product?" "Uh, no, all the books recommend different products . . . but as you can see here, we stock them all! Just read through all of these books under 'joint pain' and I'm certain we'll have the product recommend by the author you find the most persuasive." As you pour over the stock of suggested preventives and cures for any technology, see if the "problem" really exists and that both problem and solution are reduced to well understood simple-ideas. Just because there are a lot of words written about any of them doesn't mean the writer has the foggiest notion of what they're writing about. No need to study anything if you have a hyperactive imagination. Shucks. You wouldn't belive what I saw happen on TV just last week! No doubt there are dozens if not hundreds of OBAM (and certified) machines fitted with extra key locks, hidden switches, etc. It's a further certainty that folks with the power to make rules have assuaged their own ignorant concerns with mandates for any number of additional "safeguards". If these features make the owner feel better, so be it. My only heartburn with questions and discussions on this topic is that I am unable to offer much thoughtful advise for folks who find comfort in adding them to their airplanes. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:08 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio wiring --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 05:13 PM 4/5/2004 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ted Hultzapple" > > >Trying to follow the mic jack and headphone jack wiring thread. I understand >that the only ground for the radio is to the ground tabs. Still trying to >figure out where the PTT should ground. On my Ray Allen stick control the >PTT goes to ground along with all of the trim functions(aircraft ground). >Will the PTT ground properly even if the mic jack is isolated from the >airframe as suggested? Sheet 2.1 of http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/avionics/760imB.pdf shows the "ideal" PTT wiring . . . but should you choose to ground a stick PTT button somewhere else AND have it share grounds with other stick functions, there is little potential for problems. PTT currents are very low and the circuit is not generally vulnerable as an interference gateway to the radio. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:28 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Party Time at Slobovia Outernational Airport!! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 02:48 PM 4/5/2004 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave Morris > >Not sure what this has to do with aircraft electrical systems. . . . maybe nothing. But it probably has a lot to do with the sharing of simple-ideas on other aspects of aircraft operation and construction . . . I go if I had the time. > I hope >every Tom Dick and Harry with an airshow doesn't decide to advertise it >here. I get 500 spam e-mails every day that I have to weed through already. Get a copy of MailWasher from http://www.mailwasher.net/ They have a "pro" version you pay for but the free one is very effective. Given that my e-mail address is published in over 700 places on the 'net, I get several hundred trash items a day too. I don't spend two minutes a day going over the MailWasher listing of downloaded mail to pick out new items not already on my "friends" list. This is a great piece of software. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:41 PM PST US From: "John Karnes" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Field alternator circuit breaker --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Karnes" > Okay, then it's a fault of some kind downstream of the breaker > that's tripping. Wire rubbed to ground, bad regulator, . . . > something along that line. You're getting close. > > Bob . . . FOUND IT!! During construction, I installed the fuse block over a bolt and it contacted the bus bar. It shorted and melted a bit and I terminated power. Removed bolt, reinstalled fuse block, etc. - thought everything was fine. I took the fuse block off today and checked it. An area of melted plastic in the back with a possible path to ground was apparent. I left the fuse block off the firewall and started the engine. No circuit breaker tripping!! Ordered replacement fuse block from B&C today. Thanks Bob et al. for your help. John Karnes Port Orchard, WA ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:35 PM PST US From: "Troy Scott" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Help please - (possible) alt/battery troubles --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" James Redmon, Which Skytec starter are you using? The PM Skytec requires inrush current of 285 amps or more. Their newer inline starter (not PM) requires only about 185 amps. Regards, Troy Scott tscott1217@bellsouth.net ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:48 PM PST US From: "Troy Scott" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fire Detector --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" Kevin, I'm thinking this would be called "Firewall Hot" or "Hot" or something like that...., not necessarily "!!FIRE!!". My response to this alarm would be to land and look for an exhaust leak, or evidence of a fire. I'm really thinking more of an advance warning of an impending problem, as opposed to waiting for serious smoke or flames to appear. Regards, Troy tscott1217@bellsouth.net ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:01 PM PST US From: "James Redmon" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: alt/battery troubles --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" Parts came in early so I hooked up the two batteries in parallel this evening. Zzzzing! Engine spins like crazy with a 10.3v bus voltage while cranking. Tried cranking several successive times (more than 6 times, 10-15 blades each)...no appreciable degradation of cranking power or voltage. I think this will work just fine. Now, with the two 17ah bats in parallel, I have 34ah of energy on tap - quite a comfortable margin, even for a all electric airplane. Question: With the two batteries in parallel, do I have any special charging concerns - either on the charger, or alternator? Thanks all, and especially Bob, for all the help. James Redmon Berkut #013 N97TX http://www.berkut13.com > > > If you're simply needing the greater capacity, then wire the two > > > batteries in parallel and treat them as one battery. I'm mystified > > > as to what combination of things is piling up to make your engine > > > so hard to crank. What engine and starter combination do you have? > > > Where is your battery located with respect to the engine and what > > > size fat wire is used to hook all the cranking circuits up? > > > >I'm rather frustrated with this issue too, Bob. As always, thank you for > >your patience. I have a high 10:1 compression IO-360-B2B (200 hp), > >w/Sky-Tek starter - PM version. > > > >Here is the system, from battery to starter, the lay-out is exactly Z-12, > >canard with battery in the back: > > > >Panasonic 17ah battery (pos term) in aft compartment - 18" 4AWG flex cable - > >master relay - 8" 2AWG cable - Starter relay on engine side of firewall - > >30" 2AWG cable - starter. Ground from battery uses 20" 4AWG flex to engine > >mount bolt for pass through (all major grounds terminate here) - B&C flex > >strap for engine ground from the same pass through bolt (yes, sanded under > >engine attach bolt). No wires get warm during extended cranking...with the > >exception of the small braided strap on the Sky-Tek starter that jumps > >between the integrated relay and the starter motor - it gets rather hot > >during multiple starts. > > > > From battery ground terminal to starter's case measures .3 ohms, as does > >anywhere on the engine case. > > > >Does that help? I should have the parts for connection Tuesday...I'll > >report back. If that doesn't work...I got LOTS of re-work to do to > >accommodate a single 28ah battery. > > It would be VERY interesting to see how a B&C starter > performs in this application. Everything you've described > suggests that the starter is the questionable variable. > > Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:12 PM PST US From: "Troy Scott" Subject: AeroElectric-List: fancy switches --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Troy Scott" Gentlemen, I've e-mailed the Honeywell techies and Aircraft Engravers with the following questions, but I've not heard back from them. Then I thought, why not ask the real experts! SO! How about this: I need to know before ordering if the form factor of the switch operator (the part you touch when operating the switch) is the same for the TP Series and the AML34 Series rocker switches. I've found a company (Aircraft Engravers) that will supply engraved operators for the AML34 Series. If you go to the Aircraft Engravers website, you can see they offer Honeywell Style One and Honeywell Style Two. Which one fits the TP Series? Aircraft Engravers would engrave other styles, but I would have to supply the operators. I don't even know if the operator is removable from the TP Series as it is from the AML34 Series. Is the operator removable from the TP Series? If so, I could buy the switches, remove the operators, and send them to Aircraft Engravers. However, it would be mush simpler to just order the engraved operators all at once for both the AML34 and the TP Series switches. Regards, Troy Scott ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:58 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ignitions lock switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins >>Isn't there some kind of extremely useful rule that says >>you have to have two locks on your airplane? > [snip...] > ...I am unable to offer much thoughtful advise for folks > who find comfort in adding them to their airplanes. As usual, both useful and entertaining! Thanks, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:43 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Field Circuit Breaker --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins >Maybe you are referring to the requirement that the 5amp CB be used when >using B and C's LR3 voltage regulator. That is how the VR shuts down the >ALT when it senses an OV condition. I guess that must be it - thanks! -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage do not archive