Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:47 AM - Re: Re:Keyed Master Switch? (Sam Hoskins)
2. 06:33 AM - Re: Re: attitude indicator on E-Buss or Main (Kevin Horton)
3. 08:42 AM - Ground wire for taillight bulb (Eric Schlanser)
4. 10:28 AM - Backup devices - TC vs. attitude gyro (Chad Robinson)
5. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: attitude indicator on E-Buss or Main Buss?? (LarryRobertHelming)
6. 10:50 AM - Re: Backup devices - TC vs. attitude gyro (Hal / Carol Kempthorne)
7. 11:16 AM - Re: radio wiring (Steve Sampson)
8. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: attitude indicator on E-Buss or (Mickey Coggins)
9. 11:53 AM - Re: Re: attitude indicator on E-Buss or (Kevin Horton)
10. 11:59 AM - Re: Backup devices - TC vs. attitude gyro (Alex Peterson)
11. 12:10 PM - Re: attitude indicator on E-Buss or Main Buss?? (Greg Puckett)
12. 01:12 PM - Re: Backup devices - TC vs. attitude gyro (BobsV35B@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE:Keyed Master Switch? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Sam Hoskins" <shoskins@mchsi.com>
Here is an alternate idea; install Bob's Low Voltage Warning Light. You put
the light on the panel, right in front of your face. After you shut the
engine down this red BLINK, BLINK, BLINK reminds you to kill the master.
I have it in my aircraft and it's very effective.
Sam Hoskins
Quickie Q-200 ~ 1,350 hrs.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GMC
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE:Keyed Master Switch?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "GMC" <gmcnutt@uniserve.com>
First time I have seen this modification (in 1947 Stinson) and thought it
was an interesting solution to the problem of forgetting to turn off the
master switch after flight. The master switch was a keyed lock switch and
the key must be removed (master off) to lock the door after flight.
Anyone see any downside to this idea?
Do not archive
George in Langley
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: attitude indicator on E-Buss or Main |
Buss??
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
Well, if the E-bus is implemented as per Bob Nuckolls'
recommendations, it should be very reliable. It will have two
independent power feeds to it, and each of those feeds can be tested
before each flight. The bus itself will be a fuseblock, with the
live portions enclosed in plastic. So it would take some major high
energy event to short the bus to ground (i.e. a crash, etc). So I
wouldn't be too concerned about the E-bus providing a common-mode
failure for various items.
However, there might be one good reason to power an attitude
indicator or TC from a battery-hot bus. Think about what your
emergency procedure will be if you ever have a smoke in the cockpit
event. If the source of smoke is electrical, it might be nice to be
able to kill power to everything but the attitude indicator or TC.
My TC is powered by a battery-hot bus. My Dynon EFIS (i.e. attitude
indicator) has an internal battery. If I get smoke in the cockpit
I'll kill power to the main and essential busses, pull out my
handheld GPS and head for an airfield.
Kevin Horton
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
><mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>I read this as "if the e-bus fails, several things go
>down with it" not that it fails often.
>
>Mickey
>
>At 05:24 10-04-04, flyv35b wrote:
>-----Start of Original Message-----
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "flyv35b"
>><flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
>>
>>I realize the odds are very remote but, the E-buss is a common
>>> failure point.
>>
>>Just curious, would you care to elaborate about this. Why would the E-buss
>>be any more prone to failure than the main buss for instance. And what
>>would be the failure mode? Blown fuse, failed switch or circuit breaker,
>>etc.?
>
>--
>Mickey Coggins
>http://www.rv8.ch/
>#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Ground wire for taillight bulb |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Eric Schlanser <eschlanser@yahoo.com>
Basic question. I am trying to attach a 20 ga ground wire to a single contact 12 volt light bulb socket. The power wire comes out of the end of a Neoprene cover that comes with the socket. See http://www.motormitedormancatalog.com/buyerbrowse.epc%3Freset%3DALL%26backgrdimg%3Dbackgrdimg_lighting.jpg%26category1%3DLIGHTING%26categories%3DLIGHTING
The socket will be epoxed into a 7/8 diam steel tube brazed onto the trailing edge
of the tailfin for a taillight. How do I attach a ground wire to the bulb
socket? Someone said to solder it to the end of the socket somehow but he was
kinda vague on the procedure and I lack the necessary experience to make this
work...
TIA, Eric Schlanser
---------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Backup devices - TC vs. attitude gyro |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chad Robinson <crobinson@rfgonline.com>
Is there any reason to choose a TC over an attitude gyro as a backup device
to, say, a glass panel display? OTHER than cost, which is obvious? I know the
TC is considered sufficient for IFR, and I know it's cheaper, but I was
wondering if there might actually be a preference for it, rather than just an
option.
Regards,
Chad
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: attitude indicator on E-Buss or Main Buss?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
I disagree that the e-buss in a common failure point. It has a backup
source of power! That is twice as good as the old way of wiring. I think
the E-buss can be expected to be about as dependable as the battery buss and
the switch that activates the e-buss which is about as good as the battery
and the wiring. Everything has potential for failure so we cannot eliminate
failure. We live with risk but manage it. I like having a secondary way of
powering the things on the e-buss. If you still do not feel comfortable,
look for more backup in something like a second battery and/or second
alternator.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp
TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
JeffRose Flightline Interiors
Firewall Forward, Wiring w/Nuckoll's Knowledge
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: attitude indicator on E-Buss or Main
Buss??
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
<mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
> I read this as "if the e-bus fails, several things go
> down with it" not that it fails often.
>
> Mickey
>
> At 05:24 10-04-04, flyv35b wrote:
> -----Start of Original Message-----
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "flyv35b"
<flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
> >
> >I realize the odds are very remote but, the E-buss is a common
> >> failure point.
> >
> >Just curious, would you care to elaborate about this. Why would the
E-buss
> >be any more prone to failure than the main buss for instance. And what
> >would be the failure mode? Blown fuse, failed switch or circuit breaker,
> >etc.?
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Backup devices - TC vs. attitude gyro |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 10:27 AM 4/10/2004, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Chad Robinson
><crobinson@rfgonline.com>
>Is there any reason to choose a TC over an attitude gyro as a backup device
>to, say, a glass panel display?
My panel has a Dynon EFIS with a TC as backup. It would have an electric
attitude indicator (as seen in certified setups) but money is the
issue. Furthermore, the TC or AI might fail before the EFIS! Needle ball
airspeed proficiency is always required of course.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 7
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21@london.edu>
Jeff/Mickey - thanks I have it now. Clearing the cache was the trick.
Thanks, Steve.
---
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: attitude indicator on E-Buss or |
Main Buss??
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
I agree, and I don't believe anyone was saying
that the e-bus is not reliable.
Smoke in the cockpit is the only scenario I
can see where one would need to turn it off.
Somewhat related question - batteries in
the back, which means battery contactors
in the back. If you want to have a battery bus,
doesn't this mean you have to run a long wire
up to the panel that can't be shut off? Doesn't
this cause problems with shorting in the event
of an off field landing?
Mickey
At 20:03 10-04-04, LarryRobertHelming wrote:
-----Start of Original Message-----
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
>
>I disagree that the e-buss in a common failure point. It has a backup
>source of power! That is twice as good as the old way of wiring. I think
>the E-buss can be expected to be about as dependable as the battery buss and
>the switch that activates the e-buss which is about as good as the battery
>and the wiring. Everything has potential for failure so we cannot eliminate
>failure. We live with risk but manage it. I like having a secondary way of
>powering the things on the e-buss. If you still do not feel comfortable,
>look for more backup in something like a second battery and/or second
>alternator.
>
>Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp
>TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
>JeffRose Flightline Interiors
>Firewall Forward, Wiring w/Nuckoll's Knowledge
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: attitude indicator on E-Buss or Main
>Buss??
>
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
><mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>>
>> I read this as "if the e-bus fails, several things go
>> down with it" not that it fails often.
>>
>> Mickey
>>
>> At 05:24 10-04-04, flyv35b wrote:
>> -----Start of Original Message-----
>> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "flyv35b"
><flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
>> >
>> >I realize the odds are very remote but, the E-buss is a common
>> >> failure point.
>> >
>> >Just curious, would you care to elaborate about this. Why would the
>E-buss
>> >be any more prone to failure than the main buss for instance. And what
>> >would be the failure mode? Blown fuse, failed switch or circuit breaker,
>> >etc.?
-----End of Original Message-----
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: attitude indicator on E-Buss or |
Main Buss??
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
><mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>Somewhat related question - batteries in
>the back, which means battery contactors
>in the back. If you want to have a battery bus,
>doesn't this mean you have to run a long wire
>up to the panel that can't be shut off? Doesn't
>this cause problems with shorting in the event
>of an off field landing?
I've put a six slot fuse block beside the battery for my battery bus.
So if a wire to the front shorts out, it will blow the fuse. Yes,
there may be a tiny spark where the short occurs, for a moment. But
this would likely happen during the crash itself, and probably any
leaking fuel would not have had time to get there first.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 10
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| Subject: | Backup devices - TC vs. attitude gyro |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>
> Is there any reason to choose a TC over an attitude gyro as a
> backup device
> to, say, a glass panel display? OTHER than cost, which is
> obvious? I know the
> TC is considered sufficient for IFR, and I know it's cheaper,
> but I was
> wondering if there might actually be a preference for it,
> rather than just an
> option.
>
> Regards,
> Chad
TC's or T&B's can't tumble.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 454 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: attitude indicator on E-Buss or Main Buss?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Greg Puckett" <rv8er@myawai.com>
Cliff,
I did not mean to imply that the E buss is more likely to fail. It was
that when it does you would loose a particular instrument AND that
instruments backup. The E-buss should be less likely to fail due to it
having more than one feed.
Other than something coming in contact with the Buss itself, there are
not very many "buss faults" that would take the buss out. In general, I
would not be concerned too much about them if they are well protected
from mechanical interference like they would be if you are using the
fuseblocks with boots on the posts. If the buss itself is a copper bar
screwed to a row of breakers, say running along the bottom of the panel,
it's not to hard to imagine scenarios where something could come into
contact with them.
Greg Puckett
Elizabeth, CO
RV-8 80081 (slooooow build)
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "flyv35b"
<flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com
<mailto:flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com?subject=Re:%20Re:%20attitude%20indi
cator%20on%20E-Buss%20or%20Main%20Buss??&replyto=200404100226.i3A2QsU235
46@matronics.com> >
>
>I realize the odds are very remote but, the E-buss is a common
>> failure point.
>Just curious, would you care to elaborate about this. Why would the
E-buss
>be any more prone to failure than the main buss for instance. And what
>would be the failure mode? Blown fuse, failed switch or circuit
breaker,
>etc.?
>Cliff
----- Original Message -----
>From: <Greg.Puckett@united.com
<mailto:Greg.Puckett@united.com?subject=Re:%20Re:%20attitude%20indicator
%20on%20E-Buss%20or%20Main%20Buss??&replyto=200404100226.i3A2QsU23546@ma
tronics.com> >
>To: <AeroElectric-List@matronics.com
<mailto:AeroElectric-List@matronics.com?subject=Re:%20Re:%20attitude%20i
ndicator%20on%20E-Buss%20or%20Main%20Buss??&replyto=200404100226.i3A2QsU
23546@matronics.com> >
>Subject: Re: attitude indicator on E-Buss or Main Buss??
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Greg.Puckett@united.com
<mailto:Greg.Puckett@united.com?subject=Re:%20Re:%20attitude%20indicator
%20on%20E-Buss%20or%20Main%20Buss??&replyto=200404100226.i3A2QsU23546@ma
tronics.com>
>
> >you wrote:
>
> >Would it also be a good idea not to put the attitude indicator and
turn
> coordinator
> >on the same fuse=3F=3F - I would think one would want both on the
> e-buss=3F=3F
>
> >I'd like NOT to have another switch - how can I avoid one for the
> attitude indicator.
>
> >I'm of the understanding that I ask myself "is it essential for the
> completion
> >of the flight" if so I put it on the e-buss. Well then I would
think
> instrument
> >lights, radios, gps, electric booster pump, attitude indicator, would
> all go
> >on the e-buss - am I right here=3F=3F
>
> There are, of course, many opinions on how "essential" equipment
should
> be powered. Personally, I'm not a big fan of putting everything I deem
> "essential" on the same buss, fuse, switch ... I would never want
> equipment I've already deemed essential to share any common failure
> point.
>
> IMHO, do NOT even consider putting the two of the best pieces of
> equipment you have for keeping the greasy side down on the same fuse.
I
> would not even put them on the same buss. The idea is to keep any
single
> failure from causing you to loose items that have no backup for and
that
> the loss of will cause you to "break a sweat" getting back on the
ground
> safely. I realize the odds are very remote but, the E-buss is a common
> failure point. Maybe our working definition of "essential" needs to be
> clarified. If I've deemed a piece of equipment essential for safe
flight
> in the planned scenario, it must have a backup. That backup should not
> share any recourses with the equipment it is backing up. So, both
pieces
> are not essential. One OR the other is essential.
>
>
> Greg
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Backup devices - TC vs. attitude gyro |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 4/10/04 12:29:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
crobinson@rfgonline.com writes:
TC is considered sufficient for IFR, and I know it's cheaper, but I was
wondering if there might actually be a preference for it, rather than just an
option.
Regards,
Chad
Good Afternoon Chad,
For What It Is Worth.
For many varied reasons, I much prefer a Classic Turn And Bank
rather than the more modern Turn Coordinator.
In any case, I would consider a TC to be my second choice of a
last ditch instrument. Both the T&B and the TC are cheaper, lighter
and more reliable than an attitude indicator.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
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