Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:15 AM - Re: Lightweight Cable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 09:10 AM - Lightweight cable (Fergus Kyle)
3. 12:19 PM - Re: Lightweight cable (Eric M. Jones)
4. 12:32 PM - Re: Re: Lightweight Cable (Dennis Haverlah)
5. 08:53 PM - Re Odyssey battery charging (Rex & Jan Shaw)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Lightweight Cable |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
At 04:09 PM 6/13/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>
>
>| Time: 10:33:48 PM PST US
>| From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comcast.net>
>| Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Lightweight cable
>| Fergus Kyle wrote:|
>| <I note the idea of substituting welding cable as more flexible than its
>| <sister size in AWG - however, have you heard of the flexible cable the
>| <numbnutters are putting in their souped-up Civics for kilowatt FM amps?
>| < Locally here, the car stereo stores are stocking #00 and #4 cable in
>| <clear flexible insulation - which I am told meets transport specs for
>| <fire. I have checked it and it certainly seems to meet flex needs.>
If this is the stuff I'm familiar with, it sure is sexy looking but
not very practical for stressful environments. Insulation melts
at relatively low temperatures and I suspect will not be very
fire friendly.
>| Unless one were to use a conduit for this automotive cable, the insulation
>is not likely to pass a DAR inspection. John Rourke did some testing of
>Tefzel, auto, and welding cable. Here is a partial quote from this Feb 22,
>2002 post:
>"I also, once upon a time, compared automotive battery cable to welding
>| cable and Tefzel (22759-xx) in a 700+ degree solder pot and also with
>| flame tests; the automotive cable burned immediately, made thick oily
>| smoke and sustained a flame after the source was removed; the Tefzel
>| smelled fairly nasty but would not burn right away (and would not
>| sustain a flame at all); the welding cable gave off kind of a "hot
>| rubbery smell" which wasn't irritationg at all, and would not burn or
>| melt, but did swell just a bit."
>
>| Until someone does some testing of this auto sound cable which establishes
>that it can withstand heat and abrasion, we should avoid this stuff.
I am CERTAIN that this genre` of wire is unsuitable for
aircraft.
>| Fergus, while searching the archives on this topic, your post about
>weighing welding cable came up. Something like 55 grams per foot for #4.
>Did you weigh the clear insulated auto cable by any chance? I'm curious why
>you brought this wire to our attention and am looking for some possible
>advantage.
>| Jim Foerster, J400, wiring.
>
>Jim,
> If I said it was 55gm/foot for #4, I sure hope that's so......
>I'm not where I can check. No, I didn't do that as didn't sample any but
>just dropped into the car stereo store to see it and any similar bits. The
>suggestion came from a fellow ham whose kid was into the hobby of blowing
>out brains in a car.
> Sorry for any false tip - I was just wondering if any had
>preceded me.
Of three suitable choices we've discussed most here on the
list, welding cable is the heaviest and the least expensive.
I've tested its insulation and it's no worse than Tefzel for
smoke and it's self extinguishing for fire resistance. It's
VERY user friendly being the most flexible of the choices.
Tefzel insulated #4 or #2 is quite suitable for any fat-wire
runs. See page 8-6 in the 'Connection.
If you have LONG runs from rear-mounted battery(ies) or a canard-
pusher where battery and engine are on opposite ends of the airplane,
there is an opportunity to save significant weight by taking advantage
of Eric Jones' copper-clad, aluminum wire which runs about one
ounce per foot less than 2AWG Tefzel. Two 16' runs from nose to
tail on a canard-pusher would come in at about 4 pounds lighter than
Tefzel and about 5 pounds lighter than welding cable.
If you're wiring a tractor aircraft with the battery on the firewall,
the total length of fat-wire runs don't justify anything larger
than 4AWG wire. When the ship's total compliment of fat wires totals
less than 6 feet of wire, then there is very little return on
investment for spending more on wire than the cost of welding
cable. Total weight savings is on the order of a half pound.
Irrespective of the material choice for the longest runs of fat-wire, I'd
still recommend short 4AWG welding cable jumpers from battery(+) and
battery(-) terminals to the rest of the system. This wire style
is the least likely to induce mechanical over-stress to battery
connections.
Bob . . .
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Lightweight cable |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Eric Jones and all else,
That settles it for me. Boomboom cable is out. However, in the
copperclad aluminum line Eric, does the cable 'creep' per the failed
household alu wiring of yore? What steps are taken to avoid this quality of
alu? - I'm sure you've already described this, but I'm lazy and see your
alternative as the way to save weight on a rearmount battery.
Ferg
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Lightweight cable |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>Eric Jones and all else,
>That settles it for me. Boomboom cable is out. However, in the
>copperclad aluminum line Eric, does the cable 'creep' per the failed
>household alu wiring of yore? What steps are taken to avoid this quality of
>alu? - I'm sure you've already described this, but I'm lazy and see your
>alternative as the way to save weight on a rearmount battery.
>Ferg
Hi Ferg--A sample is on it's way to you.
I have several notes on this sort of thing on my website
www.PerihelionDesign.com and stuff I've published here.
"Copper clad aluminum wiring has no known history of the types of problems
of aluminum wire." (Coyle Inspection Engineers, Inc
Indeed there does not seem to have been a problem with copper clad aluminum
EVER. A Google search shows that this seems to be true.
The reason aluminum is so difficult to use as wiring is that the bare
aluminum oxidizes and this oxide layer does not conduct electricity (copper
oxides DO conduct well). Nor can you reasonably solder it. Furthermore, the
oxide tends to break up and absorb water and swell. There are technical
solutions to this but why bother?...there's lots of this stuff in commercial
airplanes. Airbus uses this exact same CCA material in many different sizes
INCLUDING small gauges. (And NO they won't sell it to you!)
Regards,
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge MA 01550-2705
Phone (508) 764-2072
Email: emjones@charter.net
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Lightweight Cable |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dennis Haverlah <clouduster@austin.rr.com>
I'll be building my fusalage on my RV-7A this summer. Please send me a
sample of your wire.
Thanks,
Dennis Haverlah
706 Breakaway Rd.
Cedar Park, Tx. 78613
Eric M. Jones wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>
>Welding cable is undoubtedly flexible. It is also heavy and the insulation
>may or may not be suitable for use in aircraft. (Neoprene is Chlorinated
>Polyolefin, and is usually flammable). The clear stuff the Fast and Furious
>types uses is heavier yet. But be careful, some weights published are
>without insulation.
>
>I designed and built the Super-2-CCA Fatwire to provide the advantage of an
>AWG 2 copper cable without the weight. What I got (on a huge spool) is cable
>that is much lighter than any possible copper cable with a low resistance
>far better than SILVER. True, I was expecting (and calculated) that the wire
>would be a bit lighter. But...
>
>Welding cable typically is 277 lbs/1000 feet or 0.277 lbs/foot or 4.43
>Ounces per foot. and 90 degC. Super-2-CCA is 69% of this weight with good
>flexibility and better 105 degG insulation and enormously better
>conductivity (16% better than copper! Holy Moley!).
>
>Anyone who wants a piece of Super-2-CCA for examination for free. Please
>email me. I'll send along a piece of RG+142 too. Free!
>
>Regards,
>Eric M. Jones
>www.PerihelionDesign.com
>113 Brentwood Drive
>Southbridge MA 01550-2705
>Phone (508) 764-2072
>Email: emjones@charter.net
>
>
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re Odyssey battery charging |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rex & Jan Shaw" <rexjan@bigpond.com>
Hi ! Guys, I have a Rotax 582 in a Kitfox. The current battery is a normal
wet cell motorcycle battery and it is useless. Was only good for a couple of
months at the most. It has now died to all intents and purposes at a grand
old age of about 7 months. So I have ordered an Odyssey PC625. We will see
if this copes with the deep cycling and several weeks standing at a time
better situation.
However I am wondering if anyone can enlighten me as to the suitability of
the charging system. It is the 264 870 rectifier-regulator. Does anyone know
if it has a limit to the output voltage and if so what that limit is. I am
worried about overcharging on long trips.
By the way just a hint for anyone looking at buying an Odyssey battery. I
live in Australia and the best price I could get here was $230AU delivered
to my Post Office box. I have ordered it from Batteriesforeverything in the
US. It is coming via the slow method and will take 4 to 6 weeks. The cost of
shipping this way was about $35US but a quicker way was double. Anyway the
real point is that it will land at my Post Office box for only $135 AU. My
first quote for local supply was $265AU and that wasn't delivered. So unless
you are in the US you might want to take note re pricing. I found also
prices in the US varied too. Batteriesforeverything was $57.42US whereas
most common price was $89US. Batteriesforeverything was also the most
helpfull. I am not trying to advertise for them just trying to give you an
idea of the situation. Others might be even better perhaps, I just didn't
find them.
Regards Rex
Australia.
rexjan@bigpond.com
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|