Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:32 AM - Re: Low Audio Output (f1rocket@comcast.net)
2. 07:35 AM - Re: Coax Cable (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 10:59 AM - Re: 11474 Buckle (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: 11474 Buckle (BobsV35B@aol.com)
5. 01:02 PM - Re: Re: 11474 Buckle (Larry Bowen)
6. 02:17 PM - Re: Re: Coax Cable (Brian Lloyd)
7. 02:37 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 06/30/04 (John Stevenson)
8. 03:19 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (KITFOXZ@aol.com)
9. 04:49 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
10. 04:56 PM - Re: Low Audio Output(now not so low) (Charlie England)
11. 05:56 PM - [Fw: Re: Low Audio Output(now not so low)] (Charlie England)
12. 06:07 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 06/30/04 (cgalley)
13. 06:38 PM - Re: Re: 11474 Buckle (BobsV35B@aol.com)
14. 07:27 PM - Re: Re: 11474 Buckle (Joemotis@aol.com)
15. 11:34 PM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Low Audio Output |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
Thanks for all the great responses. I really appreciate your willingness to share
your knowledge with all of us.
With the options that have been presented, there doesn't appear to be one that
is plug-n-play. Also, all of the options presented include a battery as the power
source to the amp. I had hoped to avoid that as well.
I believe there is a maketing opportunity out there for a box with two stereo jacks
and a power lead to 12V. Again, I can't believe that someone hasn't come
up with a solution somewhere that they would be willing to sell. If there is
anyone out there willing to put one of these together, please contact me off-line
at f1rocket@comcast.net. At this point in my project, I have more $$ than
time.
If that doesn't pan out, I'll probably buy an assembled card and take a stab at
putting something together. Again, my thanks to all who contributed to this
thread.
Randy
F1 Rocket
Thanks for all the great responses. I really appreciate your willingness to share
your knowledge with all of us.
With the options that have been presented,there doesn't appear to be one that is
plug-n-play.Also, all of the options presented include a battery as the power
source to the amp. I had hoped to avoid that as well.
I believe there is a maketing opportunity out there for abox with two stereo jacks
and a power lead to 12V. Again, I can't believe that someone hasn't come up
with a solution somewhere that they would be willing to sell. If there is anyone
out there willing to put one of these together, please contact me off-line
at f1rocket@comcast.net. At this point inmy project, I have more $$ than time.
If that doesn't pan out, I'll probably buy an assembled card andtake a stab at
putting something together. Again, my thanks to all who contributed to this thread.
Randy
F1 Rocket
Message 2
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Walter Tondu <walter@tondu.com>
>
>On 05/07 11:23, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > In the case originally cited, Garmin is specifying their
> > equipment to meet published performance with a maximum
> > of (8.8/100)*20 or 1.75 db of attenuation in both transmit
> > and receive paths. If you need a longer run, expect
> > a small (probably imperceptible) degradation or you can
> > go with a whippier coax like RG-223 where the losses
> > are 17 db per 100' so you can use up to 10.3 feet of
> > coax without degrading performance below the published
> > specifications.
>
> [...]
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Now I KNOW I should wait to ask this question during your seminar
>here in Long Beach next month, but...
>
>After reading your post I decided to do some more research via
>the web, and to try to understand cabling and the various parameters
>and data provided there, because now it seems that there are
>more choices than RG400, RG223 for example. Of course, all I ended
>up doing was confusing myself even more. Several of the data parameters
>I found interesting to note were;
>
> a) Attenuation Ratings - at differing frequencies
> b) Power Ratings - at varying frequencies
> c) Cable physical properties - terminals, diameter, shielding,
> environmental factors, etc.
>
>Now I'm sure that each of these is very important when determining
>which cable to use for a specific purpose as transponders, comms
>and navs all have different requirements
>
>Of couse, I also found that the numbers a) and b) above varied
>greatly from site to site, some indicating nominal values and some
>with max values.
>
>Outwardly it would seem that you would be able to select a cable
>based upon all the above and it would be obvious which cable to use,
>provided you have accurate information.
>
>Can you recomment a source for accurate information and possible
>suggested cables for most applications?
>
>See you in a few weeks!
Questions in this arena have been tumbled about the List
and other places periodically for a long time. Many texts
like to make a big deal of wire selection . . . coax cables
included. Suffice it to say that if you went out and purchased
the CHEAPEST commercially available 50-ohm coax (probably RG-58
from Radio Shack) and used it to wire every antenna in your
airplane, it is unlikely that you'd sense any great degradation
of radio performance due to coax selection.
With the exception of GPS which operates at very high frequencies
and deals with very weak signals, there is a LOT of performance
headroom in radios that allows a broad range of coax materials
to function with no perceptible differences in performance as
the pilot/radio-operator.
If it were MY airplane, RG-400 or RG-142 would be the material
of choice MOSTLY because these are modern material coaxes
-AND- they're double shielded. From an RF performance perspective,
I'm not going to see big gains in radio functionality due to their
lower over the cheaper RG-58 styles of times gone by . . . like
WWII! RG-58 is polyethylene/PVC construction and single shield,
modern coaxes use cousins to teflon for insulation and have two
layers of silver plated shield - MUCH superior construction.
If one gets into an obsession about "losses", you can go to
coax specialty houses and purchase feedline materials with
very low losses at GPS and transponder frequencies but they're
several inches in diameter and weigh in with numbers like
4-5 pounds per foot.
Bottom line is this: For the runs typical of light aircraft
antenna installations, RG-400/142 losses are quite acceptable.
The coax is easy to get and nice to work with. If your coax
run on a GPS antenna has to be longer than 10 feet, there are
some premium coaxes like LMR-400 or 400U that you can purchase
in cut lengths with connectors already installed from
http://downeastmicrowave.com/
If for whatever reason you want to install a GPS antenna
at the top of a winglet on a canard pusher and need a 20'
feedline, then I'd spend some time picking a 'better' coax.
I put a 75-foot run of this stuff up to the roof at RAC
Missiles lab in Andover a couple of years ago and got a
nice GPS signal through it.
For all but the extreme cases, 400/142 is fine for
aviation antennas below 400 Mhz and any practical installation
in an SE aircraft. I wouldn't worry about transponder
installations out to 10' or so with 400/142 (radar signals
are really strong). If GPS needs to run out past 8 feet
then consider 223 or LRU-400. This is not intended
to argue with whatever advice the instruction manual for
a given radio has to offer. When in doubt, 223 or LRU-400
is ALWAYS going to work well.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 11474 Buckle |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net>
>
>Comments/Questions: I'm currently searching for a good tutorial on how to
>construct a wiring harness using waxed lacing tape as the bundling
>method. Do you know where I could find something along these lines? Your
>"Wire Bundle Tying Techniques" was very informative, thanks for writing it!
Most builders use string ties and tye-wraps interchangeably where
bundles are formed from a succession of individual ties. A "lost
art" for stringing a series of ties together on a single strand
of lacing cord is now illustrated in a new figure added to the
end of the article you cited above. See the bottom of the page
at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/cable_lace/cable_lace.html
Bob . . .
-----------------------------------------
( Experience and common sense cannot be )
( replaced with policy and procedures. )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
-----------------------------------------
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 11474 Buckle |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 7/1/04 1:00:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
Most builders use string ties and tye-wraps interchangeably where
bundles are formed from a succession of individual ties. A "lost
art" for stringing a series of ties together on a single strand
of lacing cord is now illustrated in a new figure added to the
end of the article you cited above. See the bottom of the page
at:
Good Afternoon Bob,
I tried that address and I get the same data that was at that site a week
ago. Am I missing something?
When I was going through the Aviation Electrician Mate School at JAX NATTC
in 1946, we were taught to tie wire bundles using a continuous length of
string. We used a knot at each tie that was the same as a rib stitch knot. The
idea was that the rib stitch knot would keep it from unraveling if it became
necessary to cut one of the ties. We were also told that running the string
continuously from tie to tie added some support to the entire bundle. I was
never too sure how much good that did, but as a brand new AEM, I did what I
was told!
Did you add some reference to the continuous tie method to your excellent
drawings and photos?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Airpark LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8502
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 11474 Buckle |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Clear your browser cache and scroll all the way to the bottom.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
BobsV35B@aol.com said:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 7/1/04 1:00:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
> bob.nuckolls@cox.net writes:
>
> Most builders use string ties and tye-wraps interchangeably where
> bundles are formed from a succession of individual ties. A "lost
> art" for stringing a series of ties together on a single strand
> of lacing cord is now illustrated in a new figure added to the
> end of the article you cited above. See the bottom of the page
> at:
>
>
> Good Afternoon Bob,
>
> I tried that address and I get the same data that was at that site a week
> ago. Am I missing something?
>
> When I was going through the Aviation Electrician Mate School at JAX NATTC
> in 1946, we were taught to tie wire bundles using a continuous length of
> string. We used a knot at each tie that was the same as a rib stitch
> knot. The
> idea was that the rib stitch knot would keep it from unraveling if it
> became
> necessary to cut one of the ties. We were also told that running the
> string
> continuously from tie to tie added some support to the entire bundle. I
> was
> never too sure how much good that did, but as a brand new AEM, I did what
> I
> was told!
>
> Did you add some reference to the continuous tie method to your excellent
> drawings and photos?
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Airpark LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8502
>
>
Message 6
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> With the exception of GPS which operates at very high frequencies
> and deals with very weak signals, there is a LOT of performance
> headroom in radios that allows a broad range of coax materials
> to function with no perceptible differences in performance as
> the pilot/radio-operator.
Most GPS antennas are active and have amplifiers built-in. This overcomes the
problem with coax attenuation. Amazingly, 15' of old RG-58A/U works just fine
so there has to be a fair amount of gain in the antenna's preamp.
And, no, this is not to say I recommend RG-58, only that it works. RG-400 and
RG-142 are much superior from the point of view of longevity and consistency over
time.
I use LMR-400 for my 2.4GHz systems down here and they are outside in a tropical
marine environment, much worse than the environment in an aircraft and they
seem to hold up pretty well. That is what I would use for a long transponder
coax run.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 06/30/04 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Stevenson <johnstevenson31@yahoo.com>
I will to no longer receive emials from AEROELECTRIC-LIST DIGEST.
Thank you
AeroElectric-List Digest Server <aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com> wrote:
*
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Total Messages Posted Wed 06/30/04: 19
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:00 AM - Low Audio Output (f1rocket@comcast.net)
2. 10:53 AM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
3. 11:29 AM - Re: Low Audio Output (Ross Mickey)
4. 12:49 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (f1rocket@comcast.net)
5. 01:06 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (John Slade)
6. 03:26 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
7. 03:46 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (John Slade)
8. 04:04 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Rick Girard)
9. 04:05 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (royt.or@netzero.com)
10. 04:09 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Richard Tasker)
11. 04:20 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
12. 04:30 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Charlie England)
13. 05:05 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Charlie England)
14. 06:12 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Richard E. Tasker)
15. 06:36 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
16. 06:46 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Charlie England)
17. 07:10 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
18. 07:10 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (John Slade)
19. 07:20 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 10:00:03 AM PST US
From: f1rocket@comcast.net
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
0.5 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
I've been wandering around in the archives for a couple of hours searching for
resolutions to my problem of low audio output by my MP3 player into my PM3000
intercom. What's amazing is the number of people that have the problem but the
lack of documentation on what solved it.
I've been able to determine that the power output of the portable device in not
sufficient to drive the headphones or the intercom music circuit. Therefore,
an in-line amplifier is required.
Some folks have suggested The Muse, but with limited success. Some folks have
offered amplfiers, but their web sites no longer have the product. A Radio Shack
part (33-1109) has also been offered but no record of whether it worked or
not. Finally, Bob offers a mini-project to build your own. That appears a bit
much for me to complete.
Okay, so how have folks solved the problem? Do the small battery operated in-line
amplifiers work? I hate to bring another battery device into the cockpit.
Are there other products out there? Does someone offer Bob's amplifier already
built?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Randy
F1 Rocket
I've been wandering around in the archives for a couple of hours searching for
resolutions to my problem of low audio output by my MP3 player into my PM3000
intercom. What's amazing is the number of people that have the problem but the
lack of documentation on what solved it.
I've been able to determine that the power output of the portable device in not
sufficient to drive the headphones or the intercom music circuit. Therefore,
an in-line amplifier is required.
Some folks have suggested The Muse, but with limited success. Some folks have offered
amplfiers, but their web sites no longer have the product. A Radio Shack
part (33-1109) has also been offered but no record of whether it worked or not.
Finally, Bob offers a mini-project to build your own. That appears a bit much
for me to complete.
Okay, so how have folks solved the problem? Do the small battery operated in-line
amplifiers work? I hate to bring another battery device into the cockpit. Are
there other products out there? Does someone offer Bob's amplifier already
built?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Randy
F1 Rocket
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 10:53:36 AM PST US
From: Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
f1rocket@comcast.net wrote:
> I've been able to determine that the power output of the portable
> device in not sufficient to drive the headphones or the intercom
> music circuit. Therefore, an in-line amplifier is required.
Actually, power is not the issue. Most audio panels have a relatively high input
impedance for the music input so you really need voltage gain, not power gain.
A pair of op-amps would give enough gain to accomplish what you want.
OTOH, has anybody talked to the maker of the audio panel? This seems to be a pretty
common problem. OTOH, I have no problem with my PMA-7000 audio panels in
my airplanes. My iPod seems to have enough voltage drive to achieve a comfortable
listening level.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 11:29:31 AM PST US
From: "Ross Mickey"
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey"
Brian,
Fortunately I had just purchased a 6000 series PS Engineering audio
panel when this whole issue of low volume levels was being discussed on
the list. The solution to the low volume issue by PS Engineering was to
design the 7000 series. Since I had not opened the box on my 6000
series, I was able to trade it in for a 7000. The main difference, in
this regard, is the 7000 series has a separate volume control for audio
inputs and the 6000 does not. Those with the 6000 series are left to
solve the problem with an add-on.
Ross Mickey
N9PT
-----Original Message-----
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
OTOH, has anybody talked to the maker of the audio panel? This seems to
be a pretty common problem. OTOH, I have no problem with my PMA-7000
audio panels in my airplanes. My iPod seems to have enough voltage
drive to achieve a comfortable listening level.
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 12:49:35 PM PST US
From: f1rocket@comcast.net
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
>A pair of op-amps would give enough gain to accomplish what you want.
>
Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a product recommendation?
Thanks.
Randy
F1 Rocket
A pair of op-amps would give enough gain to accomplish what you want.
Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a product recommendation?
Thanks.
Randy
F1 Rocket
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 01:06:16 PM PST US
From: "John Slade"
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade"
> >A pair of op-amps would give enough gain to accomplish what you want.
> >
> Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a product
> recommendation? Thanks.
>
> Randy
> F1 Rocket
Don't feel dense, Randy.
I've had the same problem for 3 months, and have asked the same question.
I'm following this thread hoping (this time) for a solution. Other similar
threads have lead nowhere. I don't want to build anything. I just want to
buy some simple, cheap gizmo that'll boost the audio on my plug in portable
CD player so I can actually hear it.
Regards,
John Slade
Turbo Rotary Cozy IV
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 03:26:14 PM PST US
From: Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
f1rocket@comcast.net wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
>
>
>>A pair of op-amps would give enough gain to accomplish what you want.
>>
>
> Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a product recommendation?
Thanks.
Now it is my turn to be sorry. I spoke before thinking. I was thinking in terms
of building something but you are looking for an off-the-shelf solution. What
you need is a preamp. And, sorry, I can't think of any that are a) cheap,
b) small, and c) powered by 12V.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 03:46:22 PM PST US
From: "John Slade"
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade"
> > Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a
> product recommendation? Thanks.
How about this little baby?
2x7W 12V Walkman Stereo Amplifier Kit $29 fully assembled.
http://www.hobbytron.net/CK154A.html?AID=10289758&PID=1117139
Would this do the job for us?
John Slade
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
Time: 04:04:10 PM PST US
From: Rick Girard
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rick Girard
I realize this isn't exactly off the shelf, but what about the
amplifiers in cheap computer speakers? Go to a PC recycler, or take the
wife garage saleing for a day and buy a pair of computer speakers for a
dollar. There is also the option of buying amplified speakers made
specifically for walk men and ipod style personal stereos, but they're
not likely to be a buck. Tear the guts out, put it in an altoid box and
double back tape it out of the way. Just a PBI.
Rick Girard
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
Time: 04:05:15 PM PST US
From: "royt.or@netzero.com"
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Low Audio Output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "royt.or@netzero.com"
I've been using a Radio Shack headphone booster (pn 33-1109)and portable CD/MP3 player in my plane with Garmin 340 audio panel, Peltor 7004 headset and/or Lightspeed XL20 headset. This has been marginal but not ideal. I've purchased parts to build HeadBanger headphone amp. This is also available prebuilt. See http://www.minidisc.org/headbanger.html I plan to run this from the plane with a 12v to 9v powersupply.
I recently installed a Headsets Inc ANR kit in my Peltor. See http://www.headsetsinc.com/ The volume output of the upgraded headset is much louder. If I always flew solo, I would be very happy with the portable player, Radio Shack booster and ANR'ed Peltors. I'm still planning to build the amp and power supply. I'll power the Headsets Inc ANR from the same power supply.
I'll report back when I have completed and installed the HeadBanger amp.
(Garmin also say's there are four surface mount resistors which can be removed
to increase the external audio volume and may increase the noise. My local shop
quote to do this seemed out rageous. Something like $150.)
Regards,
Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 230hrs,
320 landings
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
Time: 04:09:36 PM PST US
From: Richard Tasker
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
Great but not what he needs. This would be perfect if one wanted to
take the output of the MP3 player and drive some speakers, but would not
work to just amplify the voltage to feed into the PS3000.
Sorry, Dick Tasker
John Slade wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade"
>
>
>
>>>Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a
>>>
>>>
>>product recommendation? Thanks.
>>
>>
>How about this little baby?
> 2x7W 12V Walkman Stereo Amplifier Kit $29 fully assembled.
>
> http://www.hobbytron.net/CK154A.html?AID=10289758&PID=1117139
>
>Would this do the job for us?
>John Slade
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
Time: 04:20:05 PM PST US
From: Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
John Slade wrote:
> How about this little baby?
> 2x7W 12V Walkman Stereo Amplifier Kit $29 fully assembled.
>
> http://www.hobbytron.net/CK154A.html?AID=10289758&PID=1117139
>
> Would this do the job for us?
Yes, it should.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
Time: 04:30:35 PM PST US
From: Charlie England
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England
f1rocket@comcast.net wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
>
>I've been wandering around in the archives for a couple of hours searching for
resolutions to my problem of low audio output by my MP3 player into my PM3000
intercom. What's amazing is the number of people that have the problem but the
lack of documentation on what solved it.
>I've been able to determine that the power output of the portable device in not
sufficient to drive the headphones or the intercom music circuit. Therefore,
an in-line amplifier is required.
>Some folks have suggested The Muse, but with limited success. Some folks have
offered amplfiers, but their web sites no longer have the product. A Radio Shack
part (33-1109) has also been offered but no record of whether it worked or
not. Finally, Bob offers a mini-project to build your own. That appears a
bit much for me to complete.
>Okay, so how have folks solved the problem? Do the small battery operated in-line
amplifiers work? I hate to bring another battery device into the cockpit.
Are there other products out there? Does someone offer Bob's amplifier already
built?
>Inquiring minds want to know.
>Randy
>F1 Rocket
>
Here's the link to the RS 33-1109:
http://www.radioshack.com/images/ProductCatalog/Manuals/OME33-1109.pdf
40 mW is .8 volts into a 16 ohm load & isn't likely to do the trick. I'd
want at least 2-3 volts output to give myself a little wiggle room.
Just for grins, here are some audiophile quality headphone amps that
could be made to work, but might be a little higher quality than what
you need.
http://www.headphone.com/layout.php?topicID=3&subTopicID=27
This has more gain than you really need & still costs too much...
http://www.opamplabs.com/m9c.htm
Does the desire for plug&play arise out of the need for speed &
convenience, or 'fear of soldering'? FWIW, if you can wire your airplane
you can assemble a simple kit of electronic parts. If you just 'must
have' plug & play, I'll call our local A/V supplier tomorrow & see
what's available.
Charlie
(electronics tech in a former life)
________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________
Time: 05:05:49 PM PST US
From: Charlie England
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England
My experience with similar devices says it will work just fine. It's
capable of just over 4 volts output (should be plenty to drive the
intercom) into 4 ohms & it shouldn't care if it sees ~600 ohms instead
of 4 ohms. The higher impedance reduces the load on the amplifier. As
an analogy, think of your 500 amp battery supplying power to a comm.
transmitter with a 5 amp current demand.
Just start with the source output level at a midrange setting & the
amp's input controls near minimum, then bring up the amp's volume
slowwwly while playing something through the source.
Charlie
Richard Tasker wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
>
>Great but not what he needs. This would be perfect if one wanted to
>take the output of the MP3 player and drive some speakers, but would not
>work to just amplify the voltage to feed into the PS3000.
>
>Sorry, Dick Tasker
>
>John Slade wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>product recommendation? Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>How about this little baby?
>> 2x7W 12V Walkman Stereo Amplifier Kit $29 fully assembled.
>>
>> http://www.hobbytron.net/CK154A.html?AID=10289758&PID=1117139
>>
>>Would this do the job for us?
>>John Slade
>>
________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________
Time: 06:12:05 PM PST US
From: "Richard E. Tasker"
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker"
Well, you are probably right. I am an electrical engineer :-) and
look at it as not the correct device for the intended purpose - to do a
little preamplification of his MP3 player to feed to his PM3000 intercom.
While either should work (if the problem has been stated correctly) I
would suggest that this would be a more appropriate solution (from the
same source):
http://www.hobbytron.net/vk2572.html
Dick Tasker
Charlie England wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England
>
>My experience with similar devices says it will work just fine. It's
>capable of just over 4 volts output (should be plenty to drive the
>intercom) into 4 ohms & it shouldn't care if it sees ~600 ohms instead
>of 4 ohms. The higher impedance reduces the load on the amplifier. As
>an analogy, think of your 500 amp battery supplying power to a comm.
>transmitter with a 5 amp current demand.
>
>Just start with the source output level at a midrange setting & the
>amp's input controls near minimum, then bring up the amp's volume
>slowwwly while playing something through the source.
>
>Charlie
>
________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________
=== message truncated ===
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Low Audio Output |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: KITFOXZ@aol.com
In a message dated 6/30/2004 9:12:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
retasker@optonline.net writes:
Well, you are probably right. I am an electrical engineer :-) and
look at it as not the correct device for the intended purpose - to do a
little preamplification of his MP3 player to feed to his PM3000 intercom.
While either should work (if the problem has been stated correctly) I
would suggest that this would be a more appropriate solution (from the
same source):
http://www.hobbytron.net/vk2572.html
Dick Tasker
Dick,
I agree that this little Hobbytron amp is a much better solution. This amp
is designed for a 1k output impedance and will meet matching needs more
closely. An amp with a 4 ohm output impedance will tend to have a very sensitive
(too sensitive) of an output gain adjustment to be practical driving the high
impedance input to the intercom amp in question.
Another concern is: when mismatching impedances, fidelity goes out the
window. Aren't we striving to have the volume needed and also be able to hear
a
good clean signal above all of the other noise in the cockpit?
Perhaps I am being too picky here, but I went into the shop and hooked up my
old Craig Power Play 8 track automobile tape deck (Yes, saved from the
sixties) so that I could again hear what 50% distortion sounds like at 50 watts
rms. How did I ever listen to that trash?
Close impedance matching will solve many sins!.
John P. Marzluf
Columbus, Ohio
Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Low Audio Output |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
KITFOXZ@aol.com wrote:
> I agree that this little Hobbytron amp is a much better solution. This amp
> is designed for a 1k output impedance and will meet matching needs more
> closely. An amp with a 4 ohm output impedance will tend to have a very sensitive
> (too sensitive) of an output gain adjustment to be practical driving the high
> impedance input to the intercom amp in question.
Well ... not really. The output impedance of this little amp is actually well
under an ohm. Most of these little amps are voltage amps with very low output
impedances. Even a preamp using an op-amp is going to have a sub-10-ohm output
impedance. And even with that the output impedance is going to be a function
of the amount of feedback.
> Another concern is: when mismatching impedances, fidelity goes out the
> window.
Well ... no. It can be a problem when you have a high impedance source because
even relatively small capacitance will roll off the high frequencies but we are
dealing with very low source impedances so that is not an issue. If you look
at them closely you will find that the little power amp chip is nothing more
than an op-amp with high-output-current capability. As for audio quality, it
is not going to be that much different than a low-signal op-amp. (And if you
audiophile geeks want to contest the previous statement, fine by me. I will
concede that it doesn't sound as good and I won't give you an argument.)
> Aren't we striving to have the volume needed and also be able to hear a
> good clean signal above all of the other noise in the cockpit?
I would think so. I think you will find it will sound just fine. I doubt that
the audio stage in the audio panel is more "hi-fi" than the LM380 audio output
chip used in that cheap little audio amp.
> Perhaps I am being too picky here, but I went into the shop and hooked up my
> old Craig Power Play 8 track automobile tape deck (Yes, saved from the
> sixties) so that I could again hear what 50% distortion sounds like at 50 watts
> rms. How did I ever listen to that trash?
We didn't know better. The amps in those things were crap. They were non-linear
as hell and they had boatloads of crossover notch distortion. Engineers will
still trying to use transistors as voltage amplifiers.
Oh, and they didn't put out much power either so they were always clipping. They
ran straight off the 12V rail so they could only produce about 7W into 4 ohms
before they started to clip. Of course, they ran them hard into clipping to
get the RMS power up at some gross level of distortion like 20%. Even so the
only produced something like 12W. It wasn't until well after the 8-track that
they started using bridged output stages. That would let them swing 24V peak-to-peak
with a 12V supply thus providing about 25W into 4 ohms without clipping.
BTW, that is why so many in-dash radios are "100W" today (four bridged
amps producing 25W each).
> Close impedance matching will solve many sins!.
Well ... not really. Rarely do we match impedances in audio systems (I mention
the exception below). Normally we use low output impedance driving a high input
impedance. The output voltage will be sufficient to meet the input voltage
requirements of the next stage and the next stage's input impedance is high
enough to not be a significant load on the previous stage.
The only time we match impedances in audio anymore is in vacuum-tube output stages
in order to get maximum power transfer. Solid-state amps they are very low
impedance with some maximum voltage swing and some maximum current capability.
The latter determines how low a load impedance the amp can drive.
And for you audiophile geeks out there, yes, I am fully aware of current-mode cabling
systems (high output impedance into a low input impedance). They don't
really apply here but I will be glad to talk about them outside this forum.
> John P. Marzluf
> Columbus, Ohio
> Kitfox Outback (out back in the garage)
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Low Audio Output(now not so low) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
f1rocket@comcast.net wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
>
>Thanks for all the great responses. I really appreciate your willingness to share
your knowledge with all of us.
>With the options that have been presented, there doesn't appear to be one that
is plug-n-play. Also, all of the options presented include a battery as the
power source to the amp. I had hoped to avoid that as well.
>I believe there is a maketing opportunity out there for a box with two stereo
jacks and a power lead to 12V. Again, I can't believe that someone hasn't come
up with a solution somewhere that they would be willing to sell. If there is
anyone out there willing to put one of these together, please contact me off-line
at f1rocket@comcast.net. At this point in my project, I have more $$ than
time.
>If that doesn't pan out, I'll probably buy an assembled card and take a stab at
putting something together. Again, my thanks to all who contributed to this
thread.
>Randy
>F1 Rocket
>
>
>Thanks for all the great responses. I really appreciate your willingness to share
your knowledge with all of us.
>
>
>With the options that have been presented,there doesn't appear to be one that
is plug-n-play.Also, all of the options presented include a battery as the power
source to the amp. I had hoped to avoid that as well.
>
>
>I believe there is a maketing opportunity out there for abox with two stereo jacks
and a power lead to 12V. Again, I can't believe that someone hasn't come
up with a solution somewhere that they would be willing to sell. If there is anyone
out there willing to put one of these together, please contact me off-line
at f1rocket@comcast.net. At this point inmy project, I have more $$ than time.
>
>
>If that doesn't pan out, I'll probably buy an assembled card andtake a stab at
putting something together. Again, my thanks to all who contributed to this thread.
>
>
>Randy
>
>
>F1 Rocket
>
Ok, here ya go:
http://www.directproaudio.com/product.cfm?directid=53503
http://www.directproaudio.com/product.cfm?directid=30370
data sheet:
http://www.directproaudio.com/images/products/ha43man.pdf
http://www.directproaudio.com/product.cfm?directid=53829
data sheet for above:
http://www.directproaudio.com/images/products/headamp.pdf
The 2nd one is the most likely candidate. 1/4" stereo phone jacks in &
out, 20 dB gain, 12 V DC power jack.
(No, you won't be using it in its design environment. Do you care? :-) )
Charlie
(I can't believe it took me this long to find this)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Low Audio Output(now not so low)] |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
I just *hate* it when this happens.
#2 ain't gonna work in an airplane. I just took a closer look at the
circuit on the data sheet & you can't tie the power supply ground to
the audio ground in this device. I'm afraid you'd have to use an
isolated battery to power it.
I'll keep looking.
Charlie
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output(now not so low)
From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
f1rocket@comcast.net wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
>
>Thanks for all the great responses. I really appreciate your willingness to share
your knowledge with all of us.
>With the options that have been presented, there doesn't appear to be one that
is plug-n-play. Also, all of the options presented include a battery as the
power source to the amp. I had hoped to avoid that as well.
>I believe there is a maketing opportunity out there for a box with two stereo
jacks and a power lead to 12V. Again, I can't believe that someone hasn't come
up with a solution somewhere that they would be willing to sell. If there is
anyone out there willing to put one of these together, please contact me off-line
at f1rocket@comcast.net. At this point in my project, I have more $$ than
time.
>If that doesn't pan out, I'll probably buy an assembled card and take a stab at
putting something together. Again, my thanks to all who contributed to this
thread.
>Randy
>F1 Rocket
>
>
>Thanks for all the great responses. I really appreciate your willingness to share
your knowledge with all of us.
>
>
>With the options that have been presented,there doesn't appear to be one that
is plug-n-play.Also, all of the options presented include a battery as the power
source to the amp. I had hoped to avoid that as well.
>
>
>I believe there is a maketing opportunity out there for abox with two stereo jacks
and a power lead to 12V. Again, I can't believe that someone hasn't come
up with a solution somewhere that they would be willing to sell. If there is anyone
out there willing to put one of these together, please contact me off-line
at f1rocket@comcast.net. At this point inmy project, I have more $$ than time.
>
>
>If that doesn't pan out, I'll probably buy an assembled card andtake a stab at
putting something together. Again, my thanks to all who contributed to this thread.
>
>
>Randy
>
>
>F1 Rocket
>
Ok, here ya go:
http://www.directproaudio.com/product.cfm?directid=53503
http://www.directproaudio.com/product.cfm?directid=30370
data sheet:
http://www.directproaudio.com/images/products/ha43man.pdf
http://www.directproaudio.com/product.cfm?directid=53829
data sheet for above:
http://www.directproaudio.com/images/products/headamp.pdf
The 2nd one is the most likely candidate. 1/4" stereo phone jacks in &
out, 20 dB gain, 12 V DC power jack.
(No, you won't be using it in its design environment. Do you care? :-) )
Charlie
(I can't believe it took me this long to find this)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 06/30/04 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Then click on this link to make your changes. No one else can do it for you!
http://www.matronics.com/subscription
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Stevenson" <johnstevenson31@yahoo.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 06/30/04
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Stevenson
<johnstevenson31@yahoo.com>
>
> I will to no longer receive emials from AEROELECTRIC-LIST DIGEST.
>
> Thank you
>
>
> AeroElectric-List Digest Server <aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com>
wrote:
> *
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
> Today's complete AeroElectric-List Digest can be also be found in either
> of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
> Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> version of the AeroElectric-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
> HTML Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-List.2004-06-30.html
>
> Text Version:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list/Digest.AeroElectric-List.2004-06-30.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 06/30/04: 19
>
>
> Today's Message Index:
> ----------------------
>
> 1. 10:00 AM - Low Audio Output (f1rocket@comcast.net)
> 2. 10:53 AM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
> 3. 11:29 AM - Re: Low Audio Output (Ross Mickey)
> 4. 12:49 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (f1rocket@comcast.net)
> 5. 01:06 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (John Slade)
> 6. 03:26 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
> 7. 03:46 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (John Slade)
> 8. 04:04 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Rick Girard)
> 9. 04:05 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (royt.or@netzero.com)
> 10. 04:09 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Richard Tasker)
> 11. 04:20 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
> 12. 04:30 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Charlie England)
> 13. 05:05 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Charlie England)
> 14. 06:12 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Richard E. Tasker)
> 15. 06:36 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
> 16. 06:46 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Charlie England)
> 17. 07:10 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
> 18. 07:10 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (John Slade)
> 19. 07:20 PM - Re: Low Audio Output (Brian Lloyd)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:00:03 AM PST US
> From: f1rocket@comcast.net
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
> 0.5 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
>
> I've been wandering around in the archives for a couple of hours searching
for
> resolutions to my problem of low audio output by my MP3 player into my
PM3000
> intercom. What's amazing is the number of people that have the problem but
the
> lack of documentation on what solved it.
> I've been able to determine that the power output of the portable device
in not
> sufficient to drive the headphones or the intercom music circuit.
Therefore,
> an in-line amplifier is required.
> Some folks have suggested The Muse, but with limited success. Some folks
have
> offered amplfiers, but their web sites no longer have the product. A Radio
Shack
> part (33-1109) has also been offered but no record of whether it worked or
> not. Finally, Bob offers a mini-project to build your own. That appears a
bit
> much for me to complete.
> Okay, so how have folks solved the problem? Do the small battery operated
in-line
> amplifiers work? I hate to bring another battery device into the cockpit.
> Are there other products out there? Does someone offer Bob's amplifier
already
> built?
> Inquiring minds want to know.
> Randy
> F1 Rocket
>
>
> I've been wandering around in the archives for a couple of hours searching
for
> resolutions to my problem of low audio output by my MP3 player into my
PM3000
> intercom. What's amazing is the number of people that have the problem but
the
> lack of documentation on what solved it.
>
>
> I've been able to determine that the power output of the portable device
in not
> sufficient to drive the headphones or the intercom music circuit.
Therefore,
> an in-line amplifier is required.
>
>
> Some folks have suggested The Muse, but with limited success. Some folks
have offered
> amplfiers, but their web sites no longer have the product. A Radio Shack
> part (33-1109) has also been offered but no record of whether it worked or
not.
> Finally, Bob offers a mini-project to build your own. That appears a bit
much
> for me to complete.
>
>
> Okay, so how have folks solved the problem? Do the small battery operated
in-line
> amplifiers work? I hate to bring another battery device into the cockpit.
Are
> there other products out there? Does someone offer Bob's amplifier already
> built?
>
>
> Inquiring minds want to know.
>
>
> Randy
>
>
> F1 Rocket
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 10:53:36 AM PST US
> From: Brian Lloyd
>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
>
>
> f1rocket@comcast.net wrote:
> > I've been able to determine that the power output of the portable
> > device in not sufficient to drive the headphones or the intercom
> > music circuit. Therefore, an in-line amplifier is required.
>
> Actually, power is not the issue. Most audio panels have a relatively high
input
> impedance for the music input so you really need voltage gain, not power
gain.
> A pair of op-amps would give enough gain to accomplish what you want.
>
> OTOH, has anybody talked to the maker of the audio panel? This seems to be
a pretty
> common problem. OTOH, I have no problem with my PMA-7000 audio panels in
> my airplanes. My iPod seems to have enough voltage drive to achieve a
comfortable
> listening level.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
> A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 11:29:31 AM PST US
> From: "Ross Mickey"
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey"
>
> Brian,
>
> Fortunately I had just purchased a 6000 series PS Engineering audio
> panel when this whole issue of low volume levels was being discussed on
> the list. The solution to the low volume issue by PS Engineering was to
> design the 7000 series. Since I had not opened the box on my 6000
> series, I was able to trade it in for a 7000. The main difference, in
> this regard, is the 7000 series has a separate volume control for audio
> inputs and the 6000 does not. Those with the 6000 series are left to
> solve the problem with an add-on.
>
> Ross Mickey
> N9PT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
>
>
> OTOH, has anybody talked to the maker of the audio panel? This seems to
> be a pretty common problem. OTOH, I have no problem with my PMA-7000
> audio panels in my airplanes. My iPod seems to have enough voltage
> drive to achieve a comfortable listening level.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 12:49:35 PM PST US
> From: f1rocket@comcast.net
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
>
> >A pair of op-amps would give enough gain to accomplish what you want.
> >
> Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a product
recommendation?
> Thanks.
>
> Randy
> F1 Rocket
>
>
> A pair of op-amps would give enough gain to accomplish what you want.
>
>
> Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a product
recommendation?
> Thanks.
>
>
> Randy
>
>
> F1 Rocket
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 01:06:16 PM PST US
> From: "John Slade"
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade"
>
> > >A pair of op-amps would give enough gain to accomplish what you want.
> > >
> > Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a product
> > recommendation? Thanks.
> >
> > Randy
> > F1 Rocket
> Don't feel dense, Randy.
> I've had the same problem for 3 months, and have asked the same question.
> I'm following this thread hoping (this time) for a solution. Other similar
> threads have lead nowhere. I don't want to build anything. I just want to
> buy some simple, cheap gizmo that'll boost the audio on my plug in
portable
> CD player so I can actually hear it.
> Regards,
> John Slade
> Turbo Rotary Cozy IV
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:26:14 PM PST US
> From: Brian Lloyd
>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
>
>
> f1rocket@comcast.net wrote:
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
> >
> >
> >>A pair of op-amps would give enough gain to accomplish what you want.
> >>
> >
> > Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a product
recommendation?
> Thanks.
>
> Now it is my turn to be sorry. I spoke before thinking. I was thinking in
terms
> of building something but you are looking for an off-the-shelf solution.
What
> you need is a preamp. And, sorry, I can't think of any that are a) cheap,
> b) small, and c) powered by 12V.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
> A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 03:46:22 PM PST US
> From: "John Slade"
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade"
>
> > > Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a
> > product recommendation? Thanks.
> How about this little baby?
> 2x7W 12V Walkman Stereo Amplifier Kit $29 fully assembled.
>
> http://www.hobbytron.net/CK154A.html?AID=10289758&PID=1117139
>
> Would this do the job for us?
> John Slade
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:04:10 PM PST US
> From: Rick Girard
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rick Girard
>
> I realize this isn't exactly off the shelf, but what about the
> amplifiers in cheap computer speakers? Go to a PC recycler, or take the
> wife garage saleing for a day and buy a pair of computer speakers for a
> dollar. There is also the option of buying amplified speakers made
> specifically for walk men and ipod style personal stereos, but they're
> not likely to be a buck. Tear the guts out, put it in an altoid box and
> double back tape it out of the way. Just a PBI.
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:05:15 PM PST US
> From: "royt.or@netzero.com"
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Low Audio Output
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "royt.or@netzero.com"
>
>
> I've been using a Radio Shack headphone booster (pn 33-1109)and portable
CD/MP3 player in my plane with Garmin 340 audio panel, Peltor 7004 headset
and/or Lightspeed XL20 headset. This has been marginal but not ideal. I've
purchased parts to build HeadBanger headphone amp. This is also available
prebuilt. See http://www.minidisc.org/headbanger.html I plan to run this
from the plane with a 12v to 9v powersupply.
>
> I recently installed a Headsets Inc ANR kit in my Peltor. See
http://www.headsetsinc.com/ The volume output of the upgraded headset is
much louder. If I always flew solo, I would be very happy with the portable
player, Radio Shack booster and ANR'ed Peltors. I'm still planning to build
the amp and power supply. I'll power the Headsets Inc ANR from the same
power supply.
>
> I'll report back when I have completed and installed the HeadBanger amp.
>
> (Garmin also say's there are four surface mount resistors which can be
removed
> to increase the external audio volume and may increase the noise. My local
shop
> quote to do this seemed out rageous. Something like $150.)
>
> Regards,
>
> Roy
>
> N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped,
230hrs,
> 320 landings
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:09:36 PM PST US
> From: Richard Tasker
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
>
> Great but not what he needs. This would be perfect if one wanted to
> take the output of the MP3 player and drive some speakers, but would not
> work to just amplify the voltage to feed into the PS3000.
>
> Sorry, Dick Tasker
>
> John Slade wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade"
> >
> >
> >
> >>>Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a
> >>>
> >>>
> >>product recommendation? Thanks.
> >>
> >>
> >How about this little baby?
> > 2x7W 12V Walkman Stereo Amplifier Kit $29 fully assembled.
> >
> > http://www.hobbytron.net/CK154A.html?AID=10289758&PID=1117139
> >
> >Would this do the job for us?
> >John Slade
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:20:05 PM PST US
> From: Brian Lloyd
>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
>
>
> John Slade wrote:
>
> > How about this little baby?
> > 2x7W 12V Walkman Stereo Amplifier Kit $29 fully assembled.
> >
> > http://www.hobbytron.net/CK154A.html?AID=10289758&PID=1117139
> >
> > Would this do the job for us?
>
> Yes, it should.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
> A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 04:30:35 PM PST US
> From: Charlie England
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England
>
> f1rocket@comcast.net wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
> >
> >I've been wandering around in the archives for a couple of hours
searching for
> resolutions to my problem of low audio output by my MP3 player into my
PM3000
> intercom. What's amazing is the number of people that have the problem but
the
> lack of documentation on what solved it.
> >I've been able to determine that the power output of the portable device
in not
> sufficient to drive the headphones or the intercom music circuit.
Therefore,
> an in-line amplifier is required.
> >Some folks have suggested The Muse, but with limited success. Some folks
have
> offered amplfiers, but their web sites no longer have the product. A Radio
Shack
> part (33-1109) has also been offered but no record of whether it worked or
> not. Finally, Bob offers a mini-project to build your own. That appears a
> bit much for me to complete.
> >Okay, so how have folks solved the problem? Do the small battery operated
in-line
> amplifiers work? I hate to bring another battery device into the cockpit.
> Are there other products out there? Does someone offer Bob's amplifier
already
> built?
> >Inquiring minds want to know.
> >Randy
> >F1 Rocket
> >
>
> Here's the link to the RS 33-1109:
>
> http://www.radioshack.com/images/ProductCatalog/Manuals/OME33-1109.pdf
>
> 40 mW is .8 volts into a 16 ohm load & isn't likely to do the trick. I'd
> want at least 2-3 volts output to give myself a little wiggle room.
>
> Just for grins, here are some audiophile quality headphone amps that
> could be made to work, but might be a little higher quality than what
> you need.
> http://www.headphone.com/layout.php?topicID=3&subTopicID=27
>
> This has more gain than you really need & still costs too much...
> http://www.opamplabs.com/m9c.htm
>
> Does the desire for plug&play arise out of the need for speed &
> convenience, or 'fear of soldering'? FWIW, if you can wire your airplane
> you can assemble a simple kit of electronic parts. If you just 'must
> have' plug & play, I'll call our local A/V supplier tomorrow & see
> what's available.
>
> Charlie
> (electronics tech in a former life)
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 05:05:49 PM PST US
> From: Charlie England
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England
>
> My experience with similar devices says it will work just fine. It's
> capable of just over 4 volts output (should be plenty to drive the
> intercom) into 4 ohms & it shouldn't care if it sees ~600 ohms instead
> of 4 ohms. The higher impedance reduces the load on the amplifier. As
> an analogy, think of your 500 amp battery supplying power to a comm.
> transmitter with a 5 amp current demand.
>
> Just start with the source output level at a midrange setting & the
> amp's input controls near minimum, then bring up the amp's volume
> slowwwly while playing something through the source.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> Richard Tasker wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker
> >
> >Great but not what he needs. This would be perfect if one wanted to
> >take the output of the MP3 player and drive some speakers, but would not
> >work to just amplify the voltage to feed into the PS3000.
> >
> >Sorry, Dick Tasker
> >
> >John Slade wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Slade"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Sorry for being dense, but can you translate that into a
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>product recommendation? Thanks.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>How about this little baby?
> >> 2x7W 12V Walkman Stereo Amplifier Kit $29 fully assembled.
> >>
> >> http://www.hobbytron.net/CK154A.html?AID=10289758&PID=1117139
> >>
> >>Would this do the job for us?
> >>John Slade
> >>
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
>
>
> Time: 06:12:05 PM PST US
> From: "Richard E. Tasker"
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Audio Output
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker"
>
> Well, you are probably right. I am an electrical engineer :-) and
> look at it as not the correct device for the intended purpose - to do a
> little preamplification of his MP3 player to feed to his PM3000 intercom.
>
> While either should work (if the problem has been stated correctly) I
> would suggest that this would be a more appropriate solution (from the
> same source):
>
> http://www.hobbytron.net/vk2572.html
>
> Dick Tasker
>
> Charlie England wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England
> >
> >My experience with similar devices says it will work just fine. It's
> >capable of just over 4 volts output (should be plenty to drive the
> >intercom) into 4 ohms & it shouldn't care if it sees ~600 ohms instead
> >of 4 ohms. The higher impedance reduces the load on the amplifier. As
> >an analogy, think of your 500 amp battery supplying power to a comm.
> >transmitter with a 5 amp current demand.
> >
> >Just start with the source output level at a midrange setting & the
> >amp's input controls near minimum, then bring up the amp's volume
> >slowwwly while playing something through the source.
> >
> >Charlie
> >
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________
>
>
> === message truncated ===
>
>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: 11474 Buckle |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com
In a message dated 7/1/2004 3:03:30 PM Central Standard Time,
Larry@BowenAero.com writes:
Clear your browser cache and scroll all the way to the bottom.
-
Larry Bowen
Good Evening Larry,
Is that bit of wizardry something that it would be easy to explain or should
I contact a computer expert to tell me how to do it?
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: 11474 Buckle |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
Bob
Just click your heels together 3 times and say " theres no place like home,
theres no place like home... " Works every time.
Joe Motis
601Xl
Do not archive
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Lister,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
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