Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:48 AM - Re: Avionics Master Switch ()
2. 07:44 AM - Which alternators are affected. (Bryan Flood)
3. 08:39 AM - Re: Which alternators are affected. (Paul Messinger)
4. 08:56 AM - splicing strobe wire ()
5. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: Avionics Master Switch (f1rocket@comcast.net)
6. 09:20 AM - Re: Odyssey battery terminal size (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
7. 09:21 AM - Re: Re: Avionics Master Switch (Rick Girard)
8. 10:41 AM - Hot contactor (Mark Sherman)
9. 10:42 AM - Re: Electric Compass (Jerzy Krasinski)
10. 12:38 PM - Re: Electric Compass (Bruce Green)
11. 12:41 PM - Crimping BNC/RG400 (Fergus Kyle)
12. 12:52 PM - Re: Electric Compass (David Shani)
13. 03:11 PM - ANL fuses (Richard Suffoletto)
14. 04:52 PM - Another Scheme for Starter Switches (Dennis Johnson)
15. 06:13 PM - dumb wiring question (John Ciolino)
16. 06:23 PM - Avionics Master ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <danobrien@cox.net>
...but it gives me comfort with the engine startup issue.
Does anyone have any evidence that there are any benefits from isolating avionics
from the bus during engine start-up?
I believe Bob says he's never seen any such evidence. Does anyone have any evidence
to the contrary?
Assuming not, it seems that the use of an avionics master switch beomes an issue
of convenience (hitting a bunch of switches at once) that has to be weighed
against the single-point-of-failure question. Isn't that what this comes down
to?
Message 2
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| Subject: | Which alternators are affected. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bryan Flood" <bryanflood@hotmail.com>
Could someone remind me which alternators are effected by the load dump
thing when a crowbar overvolt situation occurs? I heard it was a Van's
aleternator but I cannot remember if it's just the Van's internally
regulated alternator -or- also the Van's externally regulated alernator,
which I am using. Am I in the clear?
Thanks,
Bryan
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Which alternators are affected. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Messinger" <paulm@olypen.com>
The original issue was an apparent problem with the vans rebuilt alternator
that failed under what I have assumed was a procedure where the alternator
was taken off line under load.
In any event ALL alternators, internal or externally regulated exhibit the
"load dump" condition.
Generally the regulator/alternator assy has internal overvoltage protection
against any load dump condition. This does not protect the acft electrical
system just the alternator.
What happens is when the load is suddenly reduced (for example turning off
landing lights) the alternator continues supplying the prior load current
(before the current was reduced) for a short time. The alternator output
voltage will rise until the this current is absorbed by the load. If there
is a battery attached the battery takes the additional current and the
voltage rise is very small. If there is no battery then the voltage can rise
to 50v or more for a short time.
Its not a good idea to ever remove the alternator from the battery when the
alternator is producing output current. But if the battery contactor failed
open the alternator will see a load dump whose magnitude is the battery
charging current at that time.
There is a backup mode of operation when/if the battery is off line due to
some failure. Its been assumed that use of a large capacitor (25,000 mfd)
across the bus will stabilize the alternator and flight can continue with
"alternator only" flight. Problem is that a load dump of 10 amps can cause
the bus voltage to exceed 20v with the capacitor. If you have Bob's OVP
module installed the result is an instant bus off and most alternators will
not restart with no voltage so you just lost all electrical power from a
simple load dump when you turned something off.
We have a solution that is in the forthcoming report that we think everyone
should consider.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Flood" <bryanflood@hotmail.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Which alternators are affected.
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bryan Flood"
<bryanflood@hotmail.com>
>
>
> Could someone remind me which alternators are effected by the load dump
> thing when a crowbar overvolt situation occurs? I heard it was a Van's
> aleternator but I cannot remember if it's just the Van's internally
> regulated alternator -or- also the Van's externally regulated alernator,
> which I am using. Am I in the clear?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bryan
>
> http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | splicing strobe wire |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net>
<<Time: 05:41:12 PM PST US
From: "Roger Evenson" <revenson@comcast.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: splicing strobe wire
--> AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Roger Evenson"
<revenson@comcast.net>
My Whelen strobe wire is 3 (actually 4) wire shielded type. It has
three #18 wires
wrapped with a thin alum foil like paper, then outside this is a bare
wire.
This is all sheathed with a plastic (tetzel?) type covering.
What's the proper way to splice this kind of wire? More specifically,
is there
any harm in wrapping the spliced joint with a separate piece of this
'alum foil'?
In other words, does the 'foil' need to be one continuous piece to do
it's
shielding job? Roger.>>
7/13/2004
Hello Roger, A more elegant solution would be to eliminate the mid wire splice.
If the cable already has a connector on each end cut the connector off one end
and snake the cable the entire route leaving prudent excess at some convenient
location.
Then put a new connector on the cut off end. Replacement connectors and pins are
available from Terminal Town and other sources.
This process can be repeated as necessary if it is required to remove and reinstall
the cable. Not much cable length is required to cut and replace connectors
and the cost is minimal.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - 11/17/03
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: f1rocket@comcast.net
Whether there is evidence or not, you can mitigate the argument by placing your
avionics on the endurance bus, and by using an avionics master switch. That
accomplishes two things. One, it provides an alternate power path to your avionics
because the edurance bus switch can be used to power the bus in the event
of an avionics switch failure. Two, it allows you you easily power your radios
on the ground before engine start by turning on the endurance bus switch.
In my mind, you get added convenience and mitigate the risk of a "single point
of failure" for all your avionics. Again, the argument as to whether you "NEED"
an avionics master switch will never die. I don't need one, I just like the
convenience of having one and by wiring the endurance bus the way I have, I've
kept the integrity of having an endurance bus while mitigating the risk.
That's a win/win for me and the real beauty in designing my OBAM aircraft to fit
my personal needs.
Randy
F1 Rocket
http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
>
> ...but it gives me comfort with the engine startup issue.
>
> Does anyone have any evidence that there are any benefits from isolating
> avionics from the bus during engine start-up?
> I believe Bob says he's never seen any such evidence. Does anyone have any
> evidence to the contrary?
>
> Assuming not, it seems that the use of an avionics master switch beomes an issue
> of convenience (hitting a bunch of switches at once) that has to be weighed
> against the single-point-of-failure question. Isn't that what this comes down
> to?
>
>
>
>
>
>
Whether there is evidence or not, you can mitigate the argument by placing your
avionics on the endurance bus, and by using an avionics master switch. That accomplishes
two things. One, it provides an alternate power path to your avionics
because the edurance bus switch can be used to power the bus in the event
of an avionics switch failure. Two, it allows you you easily power your radios
on the ground before engine start by turning on the endurance bus switch.
In my mind, you get added convenience and mitigate the risk of a"single point of
failure" for all your avionics. Again, the argument as to whether you "NEED"
an avionics master switch will never die. I don't need one, I just like the convenience
of having one and by wiring theendurance bus the way I have, I've kept
the integrity of having an endurance bus while mitigating the risk. That's
a win/win for me and the real beauty in designing my OBAM aircraft to fit my
personal needs.
Randy
F1 Rocket
http://f1rocket.home.comcast.net/
-------------- Original message --------------
-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: <DANOBRIEN@COX.NET>
...but it gives me comfort with the engine startup issue.
Does anyone have any evidence that there are any benefits from isolating
avionics from the bus during engine start-up?
I believe Bob says he's never seen any such evidence. Does anyone have any
evidence to the contrary?
Assuming not, it seems that the use of an avionics master switch beomes an issue
of convenience (hitting a bunch of switches at once) that has to be weighed
against the single-point-of-failure question. Isn't that what this comes down
to?
ives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Odyssey battery terminal size |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
Scott,
I just went thru this exact exercise. Went to Van's (I live close) thinking
they would have terminals with the smaller holes, was told to just use the ones
that were too large.
Not being happy with that answer, I found a local welding supply store that
had terms to fit with various hole sizes, and they would even crimp them for
me.
BTW, I was going to use #2 welding wire, which Bob recommends , so a bought a
little to experiment with and proceeded to hit it with the old propane torch.
That worked o.k., kind of melted, would not sustain a flame. Then cut a 2"
piece and dropped it in a sealed cup of gasoline. After 12 hrs, the insulation
had expanded so much that the fine wires fell out, so welding wire under the
cowling won't work for me. Perhaps there is a grade with better insulation. Hope
this helps.
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
From: "Scott Diffenbaugh" <diff@foothill.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey battery terminal size
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott Diffenbaugh"
<diff@foothill.net>
I'm sure this has been addressed before, but I searched and could not find
anything.
The terminals on my Odyssey battery take a 6mm diameter (about
0.233inch)
stainless steel bolt. Actually it came with stainless steel allen head
screws, with a notice to torque to 50 inch pounds. My contactors and
starter have 5/16" (.312inch) terminals. If I recall, the starter could
pull up to 200A.
Any problems with the smaller diameter terminals?
Is it a good idea to replace my 5/16" (hole) battery cable terminals
with
ones to fit the 6mm terminal bolts, or is there a special reducing washer to
use in case I need to replace a battery in the field with one that uses
5/16" bolts? (I can make brass reducing washers on my lathe).
If I replace the terminal allen head screws with hex head bolts for
maintenance convenience, is there a minimum tensile strength bolt I should
specify?
Should I use lock washers in addition to the flat washers?
Sorry to be so anal, but after careful design of a dual alternator system, I
don't want to have a weak link.
Thank you in advance for your help.
Scott Diffenbaugh
diff@foothill.net
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master Switch |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Rick Girard <fly.ez@verizon.net>
All, Anecdotal evidence only of damage done during shut down. The
shutdown checklist used in all the aircraft of the flying club to which
I belong has master off before leaning out the mixture and turning the
mags off and then back on to clear the cylinders. The maintenance
officer says we have had several radios fried by current spikes from the
mags when the master was left on. I can't speak to the claim, I just
follow the check list.
Rick Girard
Message 8
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mark Sherman <msherman95632@yahoo.com>
Ron and Matt.
Thanks for your input. I have verified the 15 ohms
across the actuator contacts. So it looks like it is
a battery contactor.
I have an e-mail out to B&C to see if the heat is
normal. Or if there may be an inernal problem.
Mark S.
CH-701/912ULS
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Compass |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerzy Krasinski <krasinski@provalue.net>
It does not look like a flux gate. A typical flux gate would have 5
wires rather than 4.
Jerzy
Ron Koyich wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron Koyich" <Ron@Koyich.com>
>
>Hi, David - sounds like you may be the new owner of a 'flux gate', or a
>repeater compass remote sensor.
>
>
>The terminal labelling seems familiar.
>
>
>Is it a little bowl shaped unit a few inches across with the terminals on
>the flat side? Does it have mounting holes that allow the unit to be
>'turned' in its orientation a few degrees?
>
>If yes to these questions, you may need to find out what compass system
>it was from and buy the rest of the bits to make it work.
>
>
>Slaved compass systems are typically an external gyro, very often part of
>an HSI system, which is corrected for precession by reference to earth's
>magnetic. The device you have sounds like the sensor for the earth's
>magnetism.
>
>
>There were also remote compass units in early aviation, without gyros -
>a 400Hz synchro system would transfer the heading from the unit to the
>panel mounted indicator. They flung themselves around like a whisky
>compass does, being only slightly stabler.
>
>
>What other junk did you buy?
>
>
>Ron
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Compass |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bruce Green <mailindex@juno.com>
I had an electric compass a few years back and from what I remember, the
four wires are two for power and ground and two to the sender which also
had power and ground. Mine was three pieces, the indicator head, the
sender and an inverter.
Bruce Green
Eagle N110GM
On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:46:43 -0700 "David Shani"
<David.Shani@sanmina-sci.com> writes:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Shani"
> <David.Shani@sanmina-sci.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I bought in a garage sale Electric Compass manufactured by aircraft
> inst. & development Inc. from Wichita Kansas.
> Part number 17-111.
>
> This compass has 4 leads coming into it with markings A, B, C, and
> D.
> Any information on this product and what it expect to see on each
> lead
> would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Crimping BNC/RG400 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Robert,
I have some RG400 from you/BandC and wish to crimp BNC to same.
What model BNCs would you recommend and whence now that I have the proper
crimpers?
(I am having trouble searching BandC at the moment).
Cheers, Ferg
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Compass |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Shani" <David.Shani@sanmina-sci.com>
Thanks Ron for the info.
Actually it is a standard 3" vertical compass that suppose to show
Magnetic heading with standard mounting holes. Does this additional info
help to wake up some dead brain cells??
Thanks again,
David
Message 13
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard Suffoletto" <rsuffoletto@hotmail.com>
Is there any differance between the ANL fuses sold for use with alternators and
the ones sold for use with auto sound systems ?
Thanks
Richard
MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access helps fight spam and pop-ups now 2 months FREE!
Message 14
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| Subject: | Another Scheme for Starter Switches |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dennis Johnson" <pinetownd@volcano.net>
Hi Bob,
Sorry you can't open the AutoCAD file I posted on the Matronics server. As you
requested, I have sent it to your email address.
Thanks,
Dennis Johnson
Time: 08:47:02 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls@cox.net> Photo Share Available!
Dennis, I can't get this file to download from Matronics. Matt
may have filters to prevent anything but known picture formats from
being published there and you appear to have posted an AutoCAD .dwg
file. Mail a copy directly to me at mailto:rnuckolls@aeroelectric.com
Bob . . .
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | dumb wiring question |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Ciolino <jbc2000@earthlink.net>
I am wiring my navigation lights. I have a single wire coming off the
bus thru a single pole switch. At some point this single wire has to
branch into a left and right . How do I make this connection?. I
thought that just using a butt splice to connect the one power wire to
two branch wires would work. Will it? Is there a better way?
I would prefer not to use a double pole switch but if that is the
"proper" way, I will do it.
I would appreciate any help.
JBC
Wiring Illiterate
Message 16
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <jimk36@comcast.net>
If you really, really want an avionics master switch, which is convenient if not
necessary, you can wire it as Randy suggests which is a neat idea, or you might
simply put in 2 switches side by side wired in parallel. If one switch fails
the other will turn on all those expensive boxes. Either way, I too would avoid
the chance, however remote, that a single failure would turn the lights off.
Jim
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